Wilkinson on sun 15 jun 97
Lori Wilkinson
Roswell, NM
LorWilk@dfn.com
Hi,
I have an older Paragon A82B that says it is rated to 2300. It takes 3
elements at about $35 each to redo it every time it needs it and I am
located 200 miles from a source to purchase them let alone find anyone
with enough kiln knowledge to look at the kiln other than a regular
electrician. The problem I have had with it from the day I bought it about
6-7 years ago (used of course) is that after changing elements It is only
good for about four ^7 firings which take about 12 hours since I fire
slowly with a 4 hour warm up. After a few firings It takes about 20 hours
to get it to ^7. After a total of about 10 firings it will not go to ^7
even though all three elements do get red. I notice that even Bisque
firing to ^08 by that time is much slower. If I use this kiln just for
bisquing and do not high-fire in it there isn't a noticeable problem in its
slowing down.
Paragon was really very nice when I talked to them but either did not
understand the problem or didn't have the answer. Regardless, it gets
very expensive to run that kiln that long and eventually I get a glaze load
that is underfired. Of course that is usually right before a show and I
have to wait on elements to arrive or take the time to change them and
refire. That is the pits! The cost to rebrick this kiln does not seem to
me to be an option because of its age in general. I am afraid I would end
up having to replace the entire thing piece by piece via UPS. UCK!
One thing I want to ask is, "will using kiln stables or pins cause heat
retardation or shorten the life of the elements?" To hold the elements in
place due to broken out sections of the ledge where the elements fit
requires the use of about 20-30 staples especially if it is used for high
firing. Are there any precautions that need to be taken after installing
new elements?
Basically what I am trying to find out is if there is anything I can do
that that kiln could be used reliably to ^7 or if all it is good for at
this point is a raku kiln. (No put down to raku intended here.)
Thanks in advance.
Lori Wilkinson
b
Craig Martell on sun 15 jun 97
Hi Lori:
It seems that you might have a problem with voltage drop, or worn out
refractories. It's real hard to make an accurate assessment of the probalem
without seeing the kiln but I'll try and make some useful suggestions.
Does the kiln have more than one section? If so, they usually have interbox
connectors or plugs. If yours does, check the male blades for discoloration
and burning. If you see evidence of this, change the plug to eliminate the
resistance and possible voltage drop. Also, check the element feeder wires
and wires to the switches and all other connections to find evidence of
overheating. Look at the sitter too, as that's the point where the power is
fed to the entire system. Check the wall plug blades for burning too and
make repairs as necessary. Sometimes it is best to hardwire an electric at
the source to ensure getting correct voltage with little or no resistance.
Another possibility is that the kiln is just underpowered in terms of amps
and wattage. I don't know how big your kiln is but, for example, a Skutt
1027, which is 7 cubic ft., with interior dimensions of 23in wide x 27in
high, draws 47 amps, and about 11,250 watts. Does your kiln use 240 Volt
power or 110 Volt?
You can repair damaged refractories with a bit of kaowool and rigidizer to
make it durable and some Sairset mortar and Kanthal element pins to hold it
in place. I've used this to repair broken element grooves, which restores
support to the elements without having to pin them to the max.
Maybe you just need to think about the possibility of needing a newer kiln.
If you have to make a zillion repairs for $$$$, you might save time, money,
and electrical bills by getting another kiln.
I hope you find an easy solution, Craig Martell-Oregon
Bill Aycock on sun 15 jun 97
At 11:32 AM 6/15/97 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>I have an older Paragon A82B that says it is rated to 2300.
>snip-snip-etc
>Lori Wilkinson
Lori- it sounds like the real problem is in the power that is getting to
the kiln, not the kiln itself. If the voltage is low (at the kiln) or the
wires to the kiln are too small, you may be "starving" the poor thing. If
you can, get an electrician to measure the voltage at the place where the
kiln plugs in.
There will be three or four blades to the plug. If there are four, one will
be a round one, longer than the others; this is the safety ground. the
remaining three will be flat, and are the ones that carry the power. T he
arrangement is usually symetrical, with one nearly centered, or in a plane
between the others. The one that is centered or differently aligned is the
"common" lead; the other two are the "hot legs". The most usual appearance
is as a "Y", with the three legs separate.
With three blades, there are three "paired" sets to measure. From the
common to each of the legs should be about the same, and about half the
voltage between the two legs.
For instance, at my plug, I read 119 volts from the common to each leg,
and 236 volts from leg-to-leg. If the voltage is much lower than this, you
have a problem.
If the wire leading to the plug is too small, this will not affect the
voltage when the kiln is off, but the reading when the kiln has been on a
short while will be low.
another way to check this, is to check to see if the cable (insulated, of
course) that feeds the plug is hot to the touch after the kiln has been on
high for a short time.
I am a firm believer that any craftsperson should have a simple
"multimeter" as are available at stores like Radio Shack, and know the
simple measurements that can be made with them. They are an easy way to
check such things as to see if power is "on" at a socket, or if a set of
kiln elements has a break. A simple, if stupid example from my own
(recent) experience, has to do with a drawer full of lightbulbs, some of
which are probably good, some not. Screwing each of them into a lamp is one
answer, but with a meter, they can be checked FAST, without trying to
remember if the lamp switch is on or off. They are handy.
However, Safety is MOST important, and if you dont have a start-up
teacher, or if you are at all uncomfortable with the idea, hold off.
Let us know what you find.
Bill, on Persimmon Hill, where ALL the studio and shop wiring was done by
the current incumbent (me), and DOES pass code.
Bill Aycock --- Persimmon Hill --- Woodville, Alabama, US
--- (in the N.E. corner of the State)
also-- W4BSG -- Grid EM64vr baycock@hiwaay.net
Keith Chervenak on mon 16 jun 97
Hi Lori,
With all the recent discussion about ITC coatings and patch I am
wondering it might help to repair element holders with the patch product
and then coat the entire kiln with the 100 product to boost heat
efficiency. I've never used either but have been following the thread with
great interest.
Anyone out there think this could help?
Good Luck,
Keith
Keith Chervenak
kac2@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
Cleveland, Ohio U.S.A.
kinoko@junction.net on mon 16 jun 97
Dear Lori, Sounds like the horrors. A-Are the kiln elements the right
circular diameter? B- Have someone check both voltage and current from
"Off",to peak firing.(You may have a substantial voltage drop. If you have
an older Kiln-sitter there might be an intermittant short.) C- One hopes
that the 'staples' are Kanthal or at least Nichrome.(Are you sure the
elements are Kanthal?) In any event,the number of staples should have no
effect.D- I would also check the external jacket temperature as the
temperature advances and especially the time/temperature drop after
turn-off. Good luck,Kinoko.
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Lori Wilkinson
>Roswell, NM
>LorWilk@dfn.com
>
>Hi,
>
>I have an older Paragon A82B that says it is rated to 2300. It takes 3
>elements at about $35 each to redo it every time it needs it and I am
>located 200 miles from a source to purchase them let alone find anyone
>with enough kiln knowledge to look at the kiln other than a regular
>electrician. The problem I have had with it from the day I bought it about
>6-7 years ago (used of course) is that after changing elements It is only
>good for about four ^7 firings which take about 12 hours since I fire
>slowly with a 4 hour warm up. After a few firings It takes about 20 hours
>to get it to ^7. After a total of about 10 firings it will not go to ^7
>even though all three elements do get red. I notice that even Bisque
>firing to ^08 by that time is much slower. If I use this kiln just for
>bisquing and do not high-fire in it there isn't a noticeable problem in its
>slowing down.
>
>Paragon was really very nice when I talked to them but either did not
>understand the problem or didn't have the answer. Regardless, it gets
>very expensive to run that kiln that long and eventually I get a glaze load
>that is underfired. Of course that is usually right before a show and I
>have to wait on elements to arrive or take the time to change them and
>refire. That is the pits! The cost to rebrick this kiln does not seem to
>me to be an option because of its age in general. I am afraid I would end
>up having to replace the entire thing piece by piece via UPS. UCK!
>
>One thing I want to ask is, "will using kiln stables or pins cause heat
>retardation or shorten the life of the elements?" To hold the elements in
>place due to broken out sections of the ledge where the elements fit
>requires the use of about 20-30 staples especially if it is used for high
>firing. Are there any precautions that need to be taken after installing
>new elements?
>
>Basically what I am trying to find out is if there is anything I can do
>that that kiln could be used reliably to ^7 or if all it is good for at
>this point is a raku kiln. (No put down to raku intended here.)
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Lori Wilkinson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>b
>
>
*****************************************
*****************************************
** Don and Isao Morrill **
** Falkland, B.C. **
** kinoko@junction.net **
*****************************************
*****************************************
PSH on mon 16 jun 97
Wilkinson wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Lori Wilkinson
> Roswell, NM
> LorWilk@dfn.com
>
> Hi,
>
> I have an older Paragon A82B that says it is rated to 2300. It takes 3
> elements at about $35 each to redo it every time it needs it and I am
> located 200 miles from a source to purchase them let alone find anyone
> with enough kiln knowledge to look at the kiln other than a regular
> electrician. The problem I have had with it from the day I bought it about
> 6-7 years ago (used of course) is that after changing elements It is only
> good for about four ^7 firings which take about 12 hours since I fire
> slowly with a 4 hour warm up. After a few firings It takes about 20 hours
> to get it to ^7. After a total of about 10 firings it will not go to ^7
> even though all three elements do get red. I notice that even Bisque
> firing to ^08 by that time is much slower. If I use this kiln just for
> bisquing and do not high-fire in it there isn't a noticeable problem in its
> slowing down.
>
> Paragon was really very nice when I talked to them but either did not
> understand the problem or didn't have the answer. Regardless, it gets
> very expensive to run that kiln that long and eventually I get a glaze load
> that is underfired. Of course that is usually right before a show and I
> have to wait on elements to arrive or take the time to change them and
> refire. That is the pits! The cost to rebrick this kiln does not seem to
> me to be an option because of its age in general. I am afraid I would end
> up having to replace the entire thing piece by piece via UPS. UCK!
>
> One thing I want to ask is, "will using kiln stables or pins cause heat
> retardation or shorten the life of the elements?" To hold the elements in
> place due to broken out sections of the ledge where the elements fit
> requires the use of about 20-30 staples especially if it is used for high
> firing. Are there any precautions that need to be taken after installing
> new elements?
>
> Basically what I am trying to find out is if there is anything I can do
> that that kiln could be used reliably to ^7 or if all it is good for at
> this point is a raku kiln. (No put down to raku intended here.)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Lori Wilkinson
>
> bHello Lori,
I happened to notice you request for help. I am Chris from EUCLIDS
elements. The responses you have had from other concerned potters sound
quite helpful, however I would like to give you a list of things to do.
This kiln can reach 2300 F in a reasonable amount of time. If you do buy
a multi-meter (as suggested) make sure that it can read volts, amps &
resistance. Can you please send me the following info if you still need
assistance.
-info from specs plate of kiln.
-actual line voltage (read voltage @ kiln receptacle)
-amperage reading with both switches on high.
Most of these type of problems I come across are related to incorrect
voltage. example: a 240 volt kiln will have problems reaching
temperature on 208 volts.
A couple other points:
-Staples can & do shorten the life of elements.
-Repair the broken brick ledges. YOu can buy a single k-2300 brick &
use it to cut & fit pieces (mortar them into place). Here is a chance to
practice your sculpting.
-Oxidizing your elements can also greatly increases the life of
elements.
One other note is that your elements might not be what they are supposed
to be. If this is the case I would love the opportunity to quote you on
our replacement elements which I can personally guarantee to be correct.
Provided I know the line voltage.
Feel free to contact me on our tool-free # (800-296-5456) or respond via
e-mail.
Chris @ EUCLIDS
--
The Pottery Supply House
1120 Speers Road, L6L 2X4
Oakville, Ontario, CANADA
Phone (905)827-1129 FAX (905)849-0001
Web Site: http://www.PSHcanada.com
E-Mail: mail@pshcanada.com
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