Carla Flati on sun 14 apr 96
The more posts I read about talent, the more confused I become. The "I don't
believe in talent" line keeps popping up and it is especially confusing coming
from a teacher. I really hope we're all using the same word but have different
meanings.
I'd like to ask the "non-believers" out there a couple of questions. What was
it that helped Michaelangelo create the Pieta or David? Do you believe that he
really wanted to be a sculptor so he practiced and practiced until he got it
right? I just finished watching a hockey game between Pittsburgh and Boston. A
player for Boston had just scored his 5th goal of the year which ain't too
shabby. The player is 18 years old. He went straight from high school to
professional hockey. Yes, he may really be a dedicated player, but he's a kid!
How much more practice could he have gotten in over the other players on the
Boston team who have been playing for years and haven't scored 5 goals in the
last 2 seasons? Was Leonardo DaVinci simply a well rounded individual? Surely
you don't attribute these things to sheer determination and practice. So if
not talent, what would you call it? Did Michaelangelo have "a gift"? Does
the hockey player have a "natural ability"? Was DaVinci actually schizophrenic
or what?
Granted, these examples may be exceptions, but to deny that there's nothing
extraordinary about a 10 year old child who never ever answers a math problem
incorrectly, or a 7 year old that can center and throw a pot as well as many of
us who have been doing it for years is ridiculous. Sure, it's up to us as
parents and teachers to help our kids explore and develop their hidden skills,
but to simply dismiss the accomplishments of that 7 year old potter and 10 year
old math whiz because "there's no such thing as talent" or "I don't believe in
talent" is grossly unfair. In fact, coming from a teacher it's scary. If you
don't believe in talent, how are you going to recognize those hidden skills or
whatever you choose to call them when they do surface? It amazes me how some
people refuse to give credit where credit is due. I think Marie may have hit
the nail on the head when she said "Show me a student who is humble and eager
and the talent means more." Maybe some of you refuse to acknowledge talent
because you don't think the student deserves to have it and I can't say that I
blame you because nobody wants to put their time and effort into helping a cocky
little smart ass that doesn't even appreciate it. But you still can't deny all
because of a few.
My family teases me constantly about being the perpetual Don Quixote but even I
can't fully subscribe to the "practice makes perfect" philosophy. There's two
sides to every coin. There are people who excel at everything, but there are
also functioning, literate people in this world that just don't have it. These
people are not mentally or physically handicapped, they're not lazy or poor.
They're just .....not bright. They sort of move in a different time warp,
almost like robots as they go about their daily business. If they have the
desire to do anything more, they truly don't have the abilities necessary to do
it. These people accept their limitations and they're happy and content with
their lives. Some of those kids that you teachers think you couldn't get
through to probably grow up to be these adults. You could have worked with
those kids until the cows came home but the end result would have been the same.
Believe me, these people really do exist. I've worked with a few of them for
the last 8 years and I do like them. I can't say that we're friends, mainly
because I drive THEM crazy. I'm too unpredictable for them and it makes them
nervous. I just don't know where get that from.
I also read Dannon's message:
>>Carla, why should a child (and in this culture I use that word advisedly) of
high school age HAVE to decide what they want to do with the rest of their
lives? It harly seems possible that for most such choices would be wise ones.
Aside from anything else, the way the brain functions is affected by <<
Well Dannon, I don't know what the rest of your message said because it was cut
off, but I do agree with you about 18 year olds having to decide on their
futures. BTW, what country are you in? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I just
have the feeling that you must live somewhere other than the U.S. to ask that
question because it's just the way things work here and until the entire
educational system is restructured, 18 year olds will continue to have to make
those decisions because the longer they wait, the harder it is to get where they
want to go. The scholarships don't come as easily or at all when you're older.
When you're interviewed for a college, try explaining that you've just sort of
been hanging around for the last few years trying to decide what you want to be
when you grow up. That goes over real big with most interviewers. Colleges
like to see academic achievements and awards listed on your application along
with different club memberships and extracurricular goodies. They don't want to
see that you've been working a minium wage job or raising kids. I guess the
higher educational system feels that if they're old enough to vote and old
enough to get killed defending their country, then 18 year olds are more than
capable of making decisions about the rest of their lives and should make no
excuses for delaying. BTW, what is it that affects brain function?
Ok, so can someone set me straight here. Are we using the same word but meaning
different things? I'm still talking to myself about this and my kids are
looking very worried. They're walking around carrying rope and duct tape.
Carla
dannon@ns1.koyote.com on mon 15 apr 96
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>
>
>Granted, these examples may be exceptions, but to deny that there's nothing
>extraordinary about a 10 year old child who never ever answers a math problem
>incorrectly, or a 7 year old that can center and throw a pot as well as many of
>us who have been doing it for years is ridiculous. Sure, it's up to us as
>parents and teachers to help our kids explore and develop their hidden skills,
>but to simply dismiss the accomplishments of that 7 year old potter and 10 year
>old math whiz because "there's no such thing as talent" or "I don't believe in
>talent" is grossly unfair. In fact, coming from a teacher it's scary. If you
>don't believe in talent, how are you going to recognize those hidden skills or
>whatever you choose to call them when they do surface? It amazes me how some
>people refuse to give credit where credit is due. I think Marie may have hit
>the nail on the head when she said "Show me a student who is humble and eager
>and the talent means more." Maybe some of you refuse to acknowledge talent
>because you don't think the student deserves to have it and I can't say that I
>blame you because nobody wants to put their time and effort into helping a
cocky
>little smart ass that doesn't even appreciate it. But you still can't deny all
>
>
>I also read Dannon's message:
>
>>>Carla, why should a child (and in this culture I use that word advisedly) of
>high school age HAVE to decide what they want to do with the rest of their
>lives? It harly seems possible that for most such choices would be wise ones.
>Aside from anything else, the way the brain functions is affected by <<
>
>Well Dannon, I don't know what the rest of your message said because it was cut
>off, but I do agree with you about 18 year olds having to decide on their
>futures. BTW, what country are you in?
>Carla
>
> ...the way the brain functions is affected by hormonal levels, which
fluctuate wildly during adolescence.....all the more credit to high school
teachers.
As to the people that colleges want/accept: the number of first-time or
returning adult or non-traditional students has risen so rapidly in the last
few years, and they are pushing the learning curve so high, that it is
difficult for "traditional" students to keep up, and schools are looking for
some way to find a balance so that the younger students don't become too
discouraged. Often these older students receive scholarships. In theory,
at least, schools don't discriminate on the basis of age. In any case, I
did not suggest that adolescents shouldn't make decisions; only that it
might be unwise to HAVE TO decide what they're going to do with the rest of
their LIVES..
I have not read every post re: talent. The ones I HAVE read have not said
that talent does not exist. Only that it is not enough. It's like genius:
only 1% is inspiration.
The USA.
Dannon
CaroleER@aol.com on tue 16 apr 96
In a message dated 96-04-14 20:49:08 EDT, you write:
>There are people who excel at everything, but there are
>also functioning, literate people in this world that just don't have it.
>These people are not mentally or physically handicapped, they're not lazy or
poor.
>They're just .....not bright. They sort of move in a different time warp,
>almost like robots as they go about their daily business. If they have the
>desire to do anything more, they truly don't have the abilities necessary to
>do it.
When I said everybody has their special talent, I meant -everyone-. Once I
saw a guy with a severe mental handicap who was able to look at any kind of
vehicle once and make a scale model of it to the tiniest detail with stuff
he found around the house like paper clips, thumbtacks, etc. I've seen
mentally retarded kids who's sole purpose in life, it would seem, is to cause
others to see the wonder and joy in life. Talent doesn't necessarily mean
the ability to make pottery, draw, sing, dance or whatever. Talent is your
purpose in life and in order to fulfill that purpose, we're suppose to share
it with the rest of the world.
....And that's my perception...
Carole Rishel
Bastrop,TX
CaroleER@aol.com
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