Tony Hansen on fri 7 feb 97
We are grinding Alberta Slip right now. It normally goes one pass
through our normal grinding system to get to 2-3% on a 200 mesh
sieve. Then it goes 2 more passes through a high speed micro
pulverizer (30,000 rpm) to take it to less than .5% plus 200 mesh.
Two guys here have been diagnosed with silicosis
and ordered to quit work immediately. Grinding clay this fine is
a big part of the reason. It is so difficult for them to keep their
masks on all the time, they plug up so fast, get wet so quick in
the cold, the dust collector is large but the bag house fills up
very fast and get plugged with this fine dust. It's a frustrating
clay to make.
What do those of you who use Alberta Slip think? Should we continue
multi-pass or grind it once? The clay itself is inherently very
fine anyway. Maybe we could cut the price with less processing.
--
=================================================================
Tony Hansen, Plainsman Clays
Leon Popik on sat 8 feb 97
Tony.....If the system doesnt work , I would just do the 2-3% . I don't
think that little percentage should affect that clay to much. I think
passing it once should get it fine enough.
My heart (Lungs) go out to those guys that have been diagnosed with
silicosis. I think this would be a good time to remind people who are in
the presents of any dust, for any short or long periods of time, to
periodically get their lungs checked. I usually get a LUNG CAPACITY TEST
every three years , and would highly recommend everyone else do the same
thing.
Silicosis is one of my biggest fears, and I hope I or anyone else, will
ever get it.
SLPBM@cc.usu.edu on sat 8 feb 97
Tony-
This may sound obvious, but why not wet grind it? Then dry it with heat?
Any real reasons why this wouldnt work on a large scale?
What do you do for your employees when they do come down with Silicosis?
Insurance covers this?
JUst curious.
Alex in Utah
Slpbm@cc.usu.edu
long gretchen on sat 8 feb 97
I have used Alberta slip extensivly in a ^10-R black glaze with beautiful
results. It goes gun metal to shiney depending the the amount of neph sy.
I don't know specifically, but would think that 200 mesh is
fine enough. On the other hand I don't want my black glaze to change
very much!
What kind of results are other people having?
When I lived in Canada I used the Plainsman clays exclusively and loved
them. Keep up the good work.
Gretchen Long
Boulder, Colorado
Longg@stripe.colorado.edu
Kirk Morrison on sat 8 feb 97
On 7 Feb 97 at 7:08, Tony Hansen wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> We are grinding Alberta Slip right now. It normally goes one pass
> through our normal grinding system to get to 2-3% on a 200 mesh
> sieve. Then it goes 2 more passes through a high speed micro
> pulverizer (30,000 rpm) to take it to less than .5% plus 200 mesh.
>
> Two guys here have been diagnosed with silicosis
> and ordered to quit work immediately. Grinding clay this fine is
> a big part of the reason. It is so difficult for them to keep their
> masks on all the time, they plug up so fast, get wet so quick in
> the cold, the dust collector is large but the bag house fills up
> very fast and get plugged with this fine dust. It's a frustrating
> clay to make.
>
> What do those of you who use Alberta Slip think? Should we continue
> multi-pass or grind it once? The clay itself is inherently very
> fine anyway. Maybe we could cut the price with less processing.
>
I just add water and use it for decorating, I have never ground any of
it up. I only use it for decorating as an overglaze though.
Kirk
Evan Dresel on sun 9 feb 97
At 07:08 AM 2-7-97 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Two guys here have been diagnosed with silicosis
>and ordered to quit work immediately. Grinding clay this fine is
>a big part of the reason. It is so difficult for them to keep their
>masks on all the time, they plug up so fast, get wet so quick in
>the cold, the dust collector is large but the bag house fills up
>very fast and get plugged with this fine dust. It's a frustrating
>clay to make.
>
>=================================================================
>Tony Hansen, Plainsman Clays
>
If you do decide to continue your current process, you may want to
consider something better than a standard respirator. You don't
say what kind of "mask" the workers use, but there are things better
than the half-face or even full-face cartridge respirators. The
trouble with masks most of us wear is, aside from the clogging, that
they are negative pressure devices. That means you breath in, create
a bit of a vacuum, and air flows in through the filters. If the
mask isn't sealed perfectly around the face, then dust can be sucked
in. As the filters clog up, you suck harder and there is even
greater chance to inhale particulates. The next step up from the
standard "air purifying respirator" as discribed above, is a "powered
air purifying respirator" which is often used by asbestos workers.
Those devices have a canister on the waste which gives you a bigger
filter that won't clog as quickly. The air is drawn through the
filter by a fan and blown into the mask. The big advantage is that
in the case of a bad seal around the face, the pressure inside the
facepiece is higher than atmospheric, so air flows out, not in.
A side benefit is that it is a lot easier to breathe - especially
when you are working hard.
The next step up is an airline system from a pure air supply, either
big tanks or a certified compressor and an on-demand regulator.
The big advantages are that you are not dealing with HEPA filters to
clog up, and it is a positive pressure device. If you don't have
a good seal around the face, the air flows freely (in fact workers
often will figure out that they can pull the mask away from their
face slightly to get a nice cool breeze. This is not recommended).
The obvious disadvantages are expense and hoses to trip over.
It seems to me that anyplace that dusty should be looked at to see
how to reduce the particulate levels. It's going to take a lot of
care to keep the workers healthy. You may serious want to consider
a medical monitoring program to watch for changes in lung capacity
or other signs of problems.
Incidentally, I think most potters have no idea how to check their
respirator for fit. Each and every time you put it on your face,
you should cover the cartridges with your hands and breathe in hard.
It should suck against your face. I have small hands so I get some
leakage but can still develop suction. Don't press the thing onto
your face with your hands -- that's cheating. Then cover the
exhalation valve with your hand and blow out gently. The mask should
puff out without leaking. There are other ways to test to see if you
have the right size mask and to be sure the fit is really good, but
the qualitative test above is very useful. Also beards and respirators
don't mix -- it's too hard to get a good seal.
Disclaimer: I'm not a health professional, but I do have to spend
a boring day each year in a refresher course on hazardous waste worker
training. And they spend a lot of time on this stuff.
-- Evan in eastern Washington who has been listening to a lot of
Stan Rogers songs about Alberta recently.
Tara & Michael on sun 9 feb 97
Tony -- I have been doing glaze tests with Alberta Slip. In fact I just
fired my first run of pots using a nice satin black Alberta glaze. Very
nice results!
My feeling is that if the clay works well as a glaze ingredient without
grinding it so fine then there is no reason to do it. Will not pulverizing
it so fine change glaze results appreciably? If not I'd vote for giving it
just one pass
and cutting down on the health hazard. Making it less expensive would
also be an attractive side benefit.
Michael Redwine
Tony Hansen on sun 9 feb 97
> This may sound obvious, but why not wet grind it? Then dry it with heat?
Wet grinding is good, but is very slow and requires dewatering equipment that
is extremely expensive and energy hungry. The big clay companies in Tennessee
do it but they sell a billion dollars worth of clay a year. We are a small
company and live in a dry area where water is scarse.
> What do you do for your employees when they do come down with Silicosis?
> Insurance covers this?
I am only an employee so I can't dictate what is to be done. What can be done?
Workers compensation and disability insurance is the only answer.
However
we are very conscientious. You can eat off the equipment and floors on major
cleanups and the plant
is washed down every week. But dust is so pervasive. Three of our production
people have literally given their lives to make clay for people across the
continent. They've breathed it for 20 years when changing masks, when the masks
didn't seal properly, when they got wet too fast, when they walk into the
grinding room to quickly check
the equipment, when the level of dust is not quite high enough to put on a mask,
etc. etc.
--
=================================================================
Tony Hansen, Plainsman
Tony Hansen on sun 9 feb 97
Could we try your glaze to see if it changes?
=================================================================
Tony Hansen, Plainsman
Rusty Sieck on sun 9 feb 97
Tony:
I use alberta slip in several of my glaze recipies and I guess my
response is that I sure wish I could try the once-ground BEFORE that
became all that was available... I don't want to be causing silicosis
for your workers, but now, as it is, I always have a fair bit of sand
left in the bottom of my 80 mesh sieve after I screen a batch of clay
and I'm worried that if it was only ground once it might leave behind
even more and significantly change the character of my glazes.
Whatever you end up doing, I would greatly appreciate it if you could
keep us posted and even give us some advance notice if your going to
change it so we could buy up enough to have time to experiment...
Thanks,
Rusty
************************************************************************
Rusty Sieck : mailto:rsieck@sprynet.com
Chicken Bridge Pottery, Pittsboro, NC
919.542.5504 - WWW: http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/rsieck
http://www.cclay.com/cluckcluck
"for we put the thought of all that we love into all that we make."
- J.R.R. Tolkein
************************************************************************
Craig Martell on sun 9 feb 97
At 07:08 AM 2/7/97 EST, Tony Hansen wrote:
>What do those of you who use Alberta Slip think? Should we continue
>multi-pass or grind it once? The clay itself is inherently very
>fine anyway. Maybe we could cut the price with less processing.
Hello Tony:
I use Alberta as a base for underglaze colors. I grind it with the
colorants for several hours in a ball mill so the mesh size isn't that
critical for me. I don't use a huge amount of Alberta in my work. I would
definitely do whatever you need to do to keep any of your workers from
getting silicosis. A person's lungs are awfully precious.
Regards, Craig Martell-Oregon
ZALT@aol.com on sun 9 feb 97
Tony:
My reply is a question. How does Alberta slip compare to Albany slip when
you seive. Are the particle sizes the same or is one or the other finer.
I would suggest that you use this information as your bench mark. If you
can obtain the same particle size as Albany then why do more?
Terrance F. Lazaroff
St Hubert, Quebec, Canada!!!!
Tara & Michael on mon 10 feb 97
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Could we try your glaze to see if it changes?
>
>=================================================================
>Tony Hansen, Plainsman
Sure , I got this one of CLAYART . I dont't know it's origin. Probably an
old Albany glaze. I fired it on M-340 at cone 6-7 in reduction and it comes
out avery nice satin finish.
SATIN BLACK
Alberta Slip 75
Neph. Sy. 20
Gertley Borate 5
_____
100
Cobalt Carb. 2-5
If you do test this please let me know if and haw it changes.
Michael Redwine
Tony Hansen on tue 11 feb 97
> How does Alberta slip compare to Albany slip when you seive.
Here is a sample sieve analysis of Alberta Slip.
TOTAL PLUS-35 +48 +65 +100 +150 +200 +325
+------+-------+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+
1 |100 |0 |0 |0 |.02 |.31 |1.64 |4.82 |
+------+-------+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+
I don't have an Albany one close by but it is pretty well 100%
minus 200. However, Albany is more silty and inherently finer.
Even if it has some larger particles, they disperse better in
the slurry and the melt.
We concentrate on the amount of plus 200# material. We find
that if you make a simple 75 Albany, 25 frit recipe and compare
the two, the presence of coarser particles produces variegation
and dark spots.
=================================================================
Tony Hansen, Plainsman
Tony Hansen on tue 11 feb 97
Evan:
Thanks. These guys have been monitored for lung function for many years.
Have tried many different kinds of masks. Occupation health visits often
and has set up monitoring devices in all parts of the plant. It's really
difficult, but your suggestions about the "powered air purifying
respirator"
sounds good.
-
=================================================================
Tony Hansen, IMC - Get INSIGHT 5 beta or The Magic of Fire II at
http://digitalfire.com or http://www.ceramicsoftware.com
Gerry Barbe on tue 11 feb 97
I noticed that this glaze has cobalt in it. Does it spit onto the
kilnshelf? I'm getting leary of using cobalt glazes because of the
mess it makes in my kiln. I'd welcome this glaze if it is spitless
;-) .............Marilyn
>
> Sure , I got this one of CLAYART . I dont't know it's origin. Probably an
> old Albany glaze. I fired it on M-340 at cone 6-7 in reduction and it comes
> out avery nice satin finish.
>
> SATIN BLACK
>
> Alberta Slip 75
> Neph. Sy. 20
> Gertley Borate 5
> _____
> 100
> Cobalt Carb. 2-5
>
> If you do test this please let me know if and haw it changes.
>
> Michael Redwine
>
>
Marilyn & Gerry Barbe
Ailsa Craig, On, CANADA
gbarbe@julian.uwo.ca
Tara & Michael on wed 12 feb 97
Marylin== I haven't noticed any spitting of the cobalt in this glaze .But
I've only done a small amount of work with it . My advice would be to do
a test with a white clay pad or tile under it to see if the cobalt jumps.
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I noticed that this glaze has cobalt in it. Does it spit onto the
>kilnshelf? I'm getting leary of using cobalt glazes because of the
>mess it makes in my kiln. I'd welcome this glaze if it is spitless
>;-) .............Marilyn
>>>
>> Sure , I got this one of CLAYART . I dont't know it's origin. Probably an
>> old Albany glaze. I fired it on M-340 at cone 6-7 in reduction and it comes
>> out avery nice satin finish.
>>
>> SATIN BLACK
>>
>> Alberta Slip 75
>> Neph. Sy. 20
>> Gertley Borate 5
>> _____
>> 100
>> Cobalt Carb. 2-5
>>
Michael Redwine
Tony Hansen on wed 26 feb 97
Thanks all for the responses about Alberta Slip. We have settled
on a 25% frit 3195 75% Alberta Slip recipe for our consistency
checking. We have drawn up a standard test to evaluate flow, speckle,
gloss, surface disruptions, color, etc. The one-pass material is
looking very similar to the micropulverized but we will not
make any decisions until consulting with lots of users.
I don't suppose anyone would have some ideas why an Albany Slip:Frit
3195 fired glaze is covered with surface micro-dimples and the Alberta
slip one is smooth?
--
=================================================================
Tony Hansen, Plainsman Clays
cobbeldi on sat 16 aug 97
Can anyone tell me if Alberta Slip is a direct substitute for Albany Slip
or do adjustments have to be made? TIA
Debra in Alabama
Louis Katz on sun 17 aug 97
I am sure others will have more information on Alberta Slip and there is
a munfacturers information sheet somewhere out on the web.
Alberta Slip is a direct substitute for Albany. It works great in most
glazes up to 70% Alberta Slip or so. Above that percentage its increase
in shrinkage may cause some crawling problems and you might want to
calcine some portion of the recipe. It is a very good substitute and to
most casual observers the side by side tests in glaze recipes look enough
alike to pass for each other. You will however probably notice some
differences.
Alberta Slip is available from many suppliers. It can also be ordered
from the Archie Bray Foundation in Helena Montana 1-800 443 6434. A
sample 1 pound package can be had by sending them a check for $3.00 at
Archie Bray Clay Business, 2915 Country Club, Helena, Montana 59601
Alberta Slip comes to the U.S. packaged in 44# bags. An economical way to
obtain a supply of it is by UPS hundred weight service from the Bray, of
course, this will have to wait because of the strike.
Louis
Louis Katz
Texas A&M University Corpus Campus
lkatz@falcon.tamucc.edu
NEW WEBSITE:http://maclab.tamucc.edu/lkatz/lkatz/index.html
Tony Hansen on sat 29 nov 97
Anybody interested in the Alberta Slip data sheet can
find it at http://www.digitalfire.com/plainsman/data/alta.htm
Lots of background info. This stuff is THE way to make
black glazes.
--
-------
T o n y H a n s e n thansen@digitalfire.com
Get INSIGHT, Magic of Fire at http://digitalfire.com
James Dapogny on wed 4 mar 98
Hi,
At our Potters Guild, we've tested Alberta slip recently and found it to
work fine. Now we are looking for a source close to us (Ann Arbor,
Michigan) where the price is decent and shipping isn't out of sight.
Ordering from Archie Bray costs more in shipping than the actual product
costs. Anyone know of a Midwest (or close to) source we could investigate?
TIA
--Gail Dapogny in Ann Arbor (jdapogny@umich.edu)
David Hendley on thu 5 mar 98
The cheapest substitue for Albany Slip is to make
your own mixture. This recipe uses Redart from
nearby Ohio:
Redart 72
Whiting 10
Soda Feldspar 8
Talc 5
EPK kaolin 5
It has the same working properties as Albany Slip
and has been 'certified' on Clayart by Ron Roy as
being a closer formulation to Albany Slip than
Alberta Slip.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
See David Hendley's Pottery Page at
http://www.sosis.com/hendley/david/
At 12:24 PM 3/4/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hi,
>At our Potters Guild, we've tested Alberta slip recently and found it to
>work fine. Now we are looking for a source close to us (Ann Arbor,
>Michigan) where the price is decent and shipping isn't out of sight.
>Ordering from Archie Bray costs more in shipping than the actual product
>costs. Anyone know of a Midwest (or close to) source we could investigate?
>TIA
>--Gail Dapogny in Ann Arbor (jdapogny@umich.edu)
>
>
Louis Katz on thu 5 mar 98
Hi,
Most distributors of Alberta Slip in the U.S. get it from the Archie
Bray. If you ask Chip at the Archie Bray who your nearest distributor is
he will gladly tell you 1 (800) 443 6434 9am-5Pm M-F with some hours on
Saturday also. Sometimes this works out cheaper than buying from the
Bray direct, sometimes not.
Unless UPS has changed how they do hundred weight shipments , the
cheapest way to get Alberta Slip from the Bray short of full pallets is
buy UPS Hundred weigh tshipments. These shipments have a minimum of
200#. Unfortunately Alberta Slip is packaged in 20 Kilogram bags (44#)
making the minimun hundred weight order#220 pounds net or so.
I have asked Chip to send Clayart some pricing on it. I will forward it
to the list.
I wish Alberta Slip was cheaper, but it goes through alot more
processing than the orginal Albany did and the processing it does go
through is on a lot smaller scale. It is still much cheaper than many
ingredients, especially real Albany.
Louis
BTW I used to work at the Bray's Clay Business.
lkatz@falcon.tamucc.edu
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hi,
At our Potters Guild, we've tested Alberta slip recently and found it to
work fine. Now we are looking for a source close to us (Ann Arbor,
Michigan) where the price is decent and shipping isn't out of sight.
Ordering from Archie Bray costs more in shipping than the actual product
costs. Anyone know of a Midwest (or close to) source we could
investigate?
TIA
--Gail Dapogny in Ann Arbor (jdapogny@umich.edu)
Archie Bray Foundation on thu 19 mar 98
Hi,
At the request of Louis Katz, I'm providing the cost of UPS hundred
weight shipping for Alberta Slip from the Archie Bray Foundation to Ann
Arbor, MI.
The shipment must be at least 200 pounds. In the case of Alberta Slip,
that means 230 pounds shipping weight. The total cost would be $82.69
or $16.53 per bag(44 pounds).
The regular UPS cost per bag would be $22.80. What is probably more
important to those in the Ann Arbor area is that Rovin Ceramics is now
carrying Alberta as of last week.
If other people would like to know about UPS hundred weight to their
area, please call me at 1-800-443-6434.
Chip Clawson
Clay Business Manager
Archie Bray Foundation
Bonnie Staffel on mon 13 oct 03
Hi Clayarters,
With reference to my post about my friend's ugly green from a new batch of
fake ash glaze made with Alberta Slip, I have pictures on my web site if you
click on http://pws.chartermi.net/~bstaffel/alberta.jpg to see the
difference from the original and the new glaze.
Hope there are suggestions out there and we thank you.
Bonnie Staffel of Charlevoix Color is in right now and getting brighter
every day.
Bill Merrill on wed 23 jan 08
For those of you interested in Alberta slip, write the following person
(Joe) at plainsman and he will be glad to help you with availability and
information about Alberta slip.
=20
joe@ravenscrag.com
=20
=20
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