Leslie Ihde on wed 17 sep 97
This is a question related to Kim's question. A friend of mine showed me
some ceramic bells which were probably made in mexico. Inside the bell
was a wire loop which had been inserted when the clay was still wet and
then the piece was fired. The wire loop was used to suspend the piece
which rings against the side of the bell. (I don't know what this is
called.) I suspect the piece was low fired. Does anyone know what kind
of wire this might be? What kind could I use to fire with bells?
Leslie
Vestal NY
VICTOR JOHNSTON on thu 18 sep 97
I don't know what they're called, but a local ceramic shop sells
just such things. They use them in ceramic Christmas
ornaments. I've used them to make pendants when I don't want
to put a hole in the pendant design and for loops on the back of
hanging ceramic tiles. They work great! I just press them in to
place when the clay is at a leather stage. Check with your local
ceramic shop where they sell greenware, molds, and ceramic
tools.
>>> Leslie Ihde 09/17/97 05:08am
>>>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
This is a question related to Kim's question. A friend of mine
showed me
some ceramic bells which were probably made in mexico.
Inside the bell
was a wire loop which had been inserted when the clay was still
wet and
then the piece was fired. The wire loop was used to suspend
the piece
which rings against the side of the bell. (I don't know what this is
called.) I suspect the piece was low fired. Does anyone know
what kind
of wire this might be? What kind could I use to fire with bells?
Leslie
Vestal NY
Marie Gibbons on thu 18 sep 97
leslie
you can use any stainless steel metal to fire in your clay. it will not
melt. i have used stainless wire in many pieces that have been o4 bisque and
then raku fired and never lost a piece of wire.
marie - denver co
Phyllis Gibson on fri 19 sep 97
In a message dated 97-09-18 11:08:58 EDT, you write:
<<
I do mostly handbuilding. I build people......mostly. (sometimes little
creatures) I have wondered if I want to extend an arm perhaps in a wave or
some type extention...could I wrap the clay around the piece of wire in the
postion I want? If so, would you please tell me a source for the wire and
what thickness should I order? I have always thought, in the drying process
it would cause the clay to crack and drop off?
What thickness do I need to order ...to give the figure strength in its
position? Have you tried the wire in thte entire body and arms and build it
throughout? This way the figures could be skinny as wanted.
Group, would you mind helping me in these silly questions?
I have used wire in ornaments...you can buy the wire already pre-curved and
pre-cut or you can buy in in a roll and cut it to the length you want. I
have used both. so, I know it works, but never in my figures...their height
usually about 12 inches...sometimes more.
I use mostly earthenware fired to 04. Very rarely use porcelain when I do,
I fire porcelain to 6.
Thank you very much.
Phyllis Gibson
Bisque@aol.com
>>
stevemills on sat 20 sep 97
Here in the UK we use a wire made up of combinations of nickel and
chromium called unsurprisingly Nichrome wire. it will withstand high
temperatures and still remain reasonably malliable. Bead & earring
makers use it lots. We sell loads of it.
--
Steve Mills
@Bath Potters Supplies
Dorset Close
Bath
BA2 3RF
UK
Tel:(44) (0)1225 337046
Fax:(44) (0)1225 462712
Larry Tague on sat 20 sep 97
Leslie, the wire is made by Kemper and it comes in two gauges. If I can be of
any help, please call Carol @"The HedgeShopper" 1-800-211-7713
----------
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List on behalf of Leslie Ihde
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 8:08 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list CLAYART
Subject: Re: armatures/fired wire
----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Does
anyone know what kind
of wire this might be? What kind could I use to fire with bells?
Leslie
Vestal NY
Paul Monaghan on sat 20 sep 97
Phyllis Gibson wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> In a message dated 97-09-18 11:08:58 EDT, you write:
>
> <<
> I do mostly handbuilding. I build people......mostly. (sometimes little
> creatures) I have wondered if I want to extend an arm perhaps in a wave or
> some type extention...could I wrap the clay around the piece of wire in the
> postion I want? If so, would you please tell me a source for the wire and
> what thickness should I order? I have always thought, in the drying process
> it would cause the clay to crack and drop off?
>
> What thickness do I need to order ...to give the figure strength in its
> position? Have you tried the wire in thte entire body and arms and build it
> throughout? This way the figures could be skinny as wanted.
>
> Group, would you mind helping me in these silly questions?
>
> I have used wire in ornaments...you can buy the wire already pre-curved and
> pre-cut or you can buy in in a roll and cut it to the length you want. I
> have used both. so, I know it works, but never in my figures...their height
> usually about 12 inches...sometimes more.
>
> I use mostly earthenware fired to 04. Very rarely use porcelain when I do,
> I fire porcelain to 6.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Phyllis Gibson
> Bisque@aol.com
> >>
Hi Phyllis,
No silly questions. Take any stiff wire, stick it into the piece and
build around it. This can be coat hanger wire or larger guage if the
piece is bigger. Use straight segments for example on a curved arm.
One piece enters at the elbow and goes through the shoulder. Another
piece enters at the elbow and goes through the wrist. Once the piece is
leather hard or drier you can carefully pull the wires out with a pliers
and it will be self supporting.
Paul
--
Paul J. Monaghan email: paul@web2u.com
WEB2U Productions --- http://www.web2u.com
The "COOLEST" Site on the WEB
"The Computer Secrets are hidden at http://www.web2u.com/secret"
"HOMO CLAYARTUS" is alive at http://www.web2u.com/clayart
The Wrights on sat 20 sep 97
Phyllis Gibson wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> In a message dated 97-09-18 11:08:58 EDT, you write:
>
> <<
> I do mostly handbuilding. I build people......mostly. (sometimes little
> creatures) I have wondered if I want to extend an arm perhaps in a wave or
> some type extention...could I wrap the clay around the piece of wire in the
> postion I want? If so, would you please tell me a source for the wire and
> what thickness should I order? I have always thought, in the drying process
> it would cause the clay to crack and drop off?
>
> What thickness do I need to order ...to give the figure strength in its
> position? Have you tried the wire in thte entire body and arms and build it
> throughout? This way the figures could be skinny as wanted.
>
> Group, would you mind helping me in these silly questions?
>
> I have used wire in ornaments...you can buy the wire already pre-curved and
> pre-cut or you can buy in in a roll and cut it to the length you want. I
> have used both. so, I know it works, but never in my figures...their height
> usually about 12 inches...sometimes more.
>
> I use mostly earthenware fired to 04. Very rarely use porcelain when I do,
> I fire porcelain to 6.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Phyllis Gibson
> Bisque@aol.com
> >>
I don't know if this is going to help much, but I got high fire wire
from Ceramic Supply of New Jersey (or North Jersey, can't remember,
anyway....) I used it to make a preying mantis sculpture. I needed it
for the legs and it worked FAIRLY well in the drying process. But I
noticed very small surface cracks, at the time I suddenly remembered
(too late)that while I accounted for the shrinkage going around the wire
and knew the wire was thin enough to deal with the shrinkage, I
completely forgot to account for the shrinkage lengthwise. Of course,
the clay shrinks lengthwise also, but the wire doesn't, so when it was
fired, the wires with cracked clay strung on it were still basically in
shape, but the clay had shrunken into horrible chunks all over the
wires, some had fallen off. The hind legs which rose up higher than the
back, were bent over the back pulled over and around the back by the
shrinkage of the clay. Fortunately, because I realized my mistake
before firing, I wasn't too shocked. I knocked the legs off and will
have to put some good quality air dry clay legs on. It's going to be
tricky painting it to match the glaze and I know it won't be exact but
I'm confident that I could do a decent job. The mantis looks too good
to trash.
2x4 on sun 21 sep 97
> Hi Phyllis,
>
> No silly questions. Take any stiff wire, stick it into the piece and
> build around it. This can be coat hanger wire or larger guage if the
> piece is bigger. Use straight segments for example on a curved arm.
> One piece enters at the elbow and goes through the shoulder. Another
> piece enters at the elbow and goes through the wrist. Once the piece is
> leather hard or drier you can carefully pull the wires out with a pliers
> and it will be self supporting.
>
> Paul
I wonder if bamboo skewers could be used instead of wire for support,
and perhaps removed at the leather stage, or fired with them still in
place. Does anyone know if they would burn out? Nancy
The Wrights on mon 22 sep 97
2x4 wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > Hi Phyllis,
> >
> > No silly questions. Take any stiff wire, stick it into the piece and
> > build around it. This can be coat hanger wire or larger guage if the
> > piece is bigger. Use straight segments for example on a curved arm.
> > One piece enters at the elbow and goes through the shoulder. Another
> > piece enters at the elbow and goes through the wrist. Once the piece is
> > leather hard or drier you can carefully pull the wires out with a pliers
> > and it will be self supporting.
> >
> > Paul
>
> I wonder if bamboo skewers could be used instead of wire for support,
> and perhaps removed at the leather stage, or fired with them still in
> place. Does anyone know if they would burn out? Nancy
They probably will burn out since they are plant material. My professor
would sometimes fire sculptures right on the boards they were built on,
because the pieces were so big and/or awkward to move into the kiln, and
there would just be a pile of ash, maybe a small chunk of wood way
underneath the piece, so I'm sure thin bamboo skewers would burn.
That's an interesting idea, I never thought of something like that.
freewill on tue 23 sep 97
I have a question that kind of goes along with this "armature" idea. I'm
not sure how to explain what I'm asking....try to bear with me.
I've seen some work which I think was made by dipping cloth (lace, etc) in
either throwing or casting slip and just laying it on the surface of a
thrown pot. What's left after firing seems to be a fairly sturdy, perfect
replica of the cloth, including the texture.
I'm thinking that, like Flo said, any organic material used for this would
"burn out" during firing. It seems that any such material would work for
this type of "effect."
I'm wondering if anyone here is familiar with this technique and knows
if throwing slip can be used, or if it must be done with casting slip.
I also wonder if there's a certain thickness to which the slip must be
applied - though that's probably relative to the thickness of the object
(i.e. the piece of cloth) that you're coating. There must also be an upper
limit to how thick the cloth can be; to use the board example, I would
guess that you couldn't just coat a board with a few layers of slip and
fire it and get a perfect replica of the board (A hollow replica, though)
out of the kiln.
Anyone with experience in this out there? Or shall I just start
experimenting?? :) Thanks!
jenni
jlexau@cwis.unomaha.edu
"When all else fails, manipulate the data."
Paul Monaghan on tue 23 sep 97
The Wrights wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> 2x4 wrote:
> >
> > ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > > Hi Phyllis,
> > >
> > > No silly questions. Take any stiff wire, stick it into the piece and
> > > build around it. This can be coat hanger wire or larger guage if the
> > > piece is bigger. Use straight segments for example on a curved arm.
> > > One piece enters at the elbow and goes through the shoulder. Another
> > > piece enters at the elbow and goes through the wrist. Once the piece is
> > > leather hard or drier you can carefully pull the wires out with a pliers
> > > and it will be self supporting.
> > >
> > > Paul
> >
> > I wonder if bamboo skewers could be used instead of wire for support,
> > and perhaps removed at the leather stage, or fired with them still in
> > place. Does anyone know if they would burn out? Nancy
> They probably will burn out since they are plant material. My professor
> would sometimes fire sculptures right on the boards they were built on,
> because the pieces were so big and/or awkward to move into the kiln, and
> there would just be a pile of ash, maybe a small chunk of wood way
> underneath the piece, so I'm sure thin bamboo skewers would burn.
> That's an interesting idea, I never thought of something like that.
Great idea ad they will burn out.
Paul
--
Paul J. Monaghan email: paul@web2u.com
WEB2U Productions --- http://www.web2u.com
The "COOLEST" Site on the WEB
"The Computer Secrets are hidden at http://www.web2u.com/secret"
"HOMO CLAYARTUS" is alive at http://www.web2u.com/clayart
douglas gray on wed 24 sep 97
> Jenni,
>
> my experiences have been limited, so hopefully you will get some other
> responses.
>
> The material that seems to work best for me has been natural fibers like
> cotton or burlap. The man-made fibers don't seem to absorb the slip as well
> and consequently give a very thin, more fragile finished layer.
>
> I have used any and all slips at my disposal. Regular white c10 slip works
> well, porcelain is fine, I've even used slurry from my throwing bucket. The
> thing to kep in mind is the coarse-ness of the particles. If there is a lot
> of grog, that could obscure the texture of the fabric. If there are very
> fine particles, you should get a very detailed texture. You can even try
> colored slips. They work as well and give you some color distinction to the
> layers you add.
>
> I have even made forms out of news paper and wrapped these forms in cloth
> dipped in slip. It dries well, fires to bisque temperatures no problem. You
> get a very thin eggshell like form. I took one of these forms, glazed it,
> and high fired it to c 9. Not so nice. The flux in the glaze seemed to be
> enough to start to melt the slip form. Remember the form is very thin and as
> the glaze melt into it, it might cause the slip to flux as well. Maybe best
> to stick with low fire, or build up many layers if you high fire.
>
> try it, you'll have fun
>
> doug
>
> ============================================================================
> =)
> Douglas E. Gray
> Assistant Professor of Art, Ceramics
> Francis Marion Univeristy
> Florence, South Carolina 29501
>
> dgray@fmarion.edu
>
>
=========================================================================== =)
Douglas E. Gray
Assistant Professor of Art, Ceramics
Francis Marion Univeristy
Florence, South Carolina 29501
dgray@fmarion.edu
VICTOR JOHNSTON on wed 24 sep 97
I recently read an article (I don't remember from where) about
porcelain doll making. (I remember now that it was in a book I
checked out of the library.) It was describing how to make the
lacy skirts around a balerina. It said to dip lace (made of cotton
or other organic thread - not synthetic) in the porcelain slip,
arrange it around the doll in the manner you wanted it, creating
pleats and folds. alow to dry, and fire as normal. The lace would
burn out and leave a porcelain shell matching the pattern of the
lace. The slip used was a pour slip with no modifications from
the consistency.
this should work for any casting slip, I would think.
>>> freewill 09/23/97 03:58am
>>>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I have a question that kind of goes along with this "armature"
idea. I'm
not sure how to explain what I'm asking....try to bear with me.
I've seen some work which I think was made by dipping cloth
(lace, etc) in
either throwing or casting slip and just laying it on the surface of
a
thrown pot. What's left after firing seems to be a fairly sturdy,
perfect
replica of the cloth, including the texture.
I'm thinking that, like Flo said, any organic material used for this
would
"burn out" during firing. It seems that any such material would
work for
this type of "effect."
I'm wondering if anyone here is familiar with this technique and
knows
if throwing slip can be used, or if it must be done with casting
slip.
I also wonder if there's a certain thickness to which the slip must
be
applied - though that's probably relative to the thickness of the
object
(i.e. the piece of cloth) that you're coating. There must also be an
upper
limit to how thick the cloth can be; to use the board example, I
would
guess that you couldn't just coat a board with a few layers of slip
and
fire it and get a perfect replica of the board (A hollow replica,
though)
out of the kiln.
Anyone with experience in this out there? Or shall I just start
experimenting?? :) Thanks!
jenni
jlexau@cwis.unomaha.edu
"When all else fails, manipulate the data."
Tadeusz Westawic on wed 24 sep 97
freewill wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I have a question that kind of goes along with this "armature" idea. I'm
> not sure how to explain what I'm asking....try to bear with me.
>
> I've seen some work which I think was made by dipping cloth (lace, etc) in
> either throwing or casting slip and just laying it on the surface of a
> thrown pot. What's left after firing seems to be a fairly sturdy, perfect
> replica of the cloth, including the texture.
>
> I'm thinking that, like Flo said, any organic material used for this would
> "burn out" during firing. It seems that any such material would work for
> this type of "effect."
>
> I'm wondering if anyone here is familiar with this technique and knows
> if throwing slip can be used, or if it must be done with casting slip.
>
> I also wonder if there's a certain thickness to which the slip must be
> applied - though that's probably relative to the thickness of the object
> (i.e. the piece of cloth) that you're coating. There must also be an upper
> limit to how thick the cloth can be; to use the board example, I would
> guess that you couldn't just coat a board with a few layers of slip and
> fire it and get a perfect replica of the board (A hollow replica, though)
> out of the kiln.
>
> Anyone with experience in this out there? Or shall I just start
> experimenting?? :) Thanks!
>
> jenni
> jlexau@cwis.unomaha.edu
>
> "When all else fails, manipulate the data."
My partner did this once, made a replica of baby's christening gown and
cap with lacy fringe. The info she had said to use cotton lace dipped in
slip. She used a synthetic lace. The fired result was perfect but so
fragile. I don't know why it makes a difference. Something to do with
slip penetration of the fiber, maybe?
You must use cotton lace, no synthetics. A slip of the same formulation
as the body for the rest of the piece (i.e. it doesn't HAVE to be a
casting slip). You may want to add gum to the slip to make it stickier.
Tadzu -- in partly-cloudy SW New Mexico where things are finally
beginning to dry-out.
Cindy Morley on wed 24 sep 97
Jenni,
I have had some experience with this. It is kinda a fun technique.
What I have usually done is use some colored slip (which I usually keep a
little thicker than average), and dip lace (usually) in it and then put it
on the piece. Sometimes I leave the lace on, sometimes I take it off, and
just leave the imprint behind, just depends on the affect I want at the
time. I'v never tired very thick material, so am unsure how it would
work, so just experiement and have fun.
Cindy Morley
Fayetteville, AR
cmorley@comp.uark.edu
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, freewill wrote
> I've seen some work which I think was made by dipping cloth (lace, etc) in
> either throwing or casting slip and just laying it on the surface of a
> thrown pot. What's left after firing seems to be a fairly sturdy, perfect
> replica of the cloth, including the texture.
>
> I'm thinking that, like Flo said, any organic material used for this would
> "burn out" during firing. It seems that any such material would work for
> this type of "effect."
>
> I'm wondering if anyone here is familiar with this technique and knows
> if throwing slip can be used, or if it must be done with casting slip.
>
> I also wonder if there's a certain thickness to which the slip must be
> applied - though that's probably relative to the thickness of the object
> (i.e. the piece of cloth) that you're coating. There must also be an upper
> limit to how thick the cloth can be; to use the board example, I would
> guess that you couldn't just coat a board with a few layers of slip and
> fire it and get a perfect replica of the board (A hollow replica, though)
> out of the kiln.
>
> Anyone with experience in this out there? Or shall I just start
> experimenting?? :) Thanks!
>
> jenni
> jlexau@cwis.unomaha.edu
>
> "When all else fails, manipulate the data."
>
Paul Monaghan on wed 24 sep 97
freewill wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I have a question that kind of goes along with this "armature" idea. I'm
> not sure how to explain what I'm asking....try to bear with me.
>
> I've seen some work which I think was made by dipping cloth (lace, etc) in
> either throwing or casting slip and just laying it on the surface of a
> thrown pot. What's left after firing seems to be a fairly sturdy, perfect
> replica of the cloth, including the texture.
>
> I'm thinking that, like Flo said, any organic material used for this would
> "burn out" during firing. It seems that any such material would work for
> this type of "effect."
>
> I'm wondering if anyone here is familiar with this technique and knows
> if throwing slip can be used, or if it must be done with casting slip.
>
> I also wonder if there's a certain thickness to which the slip must be
> applied - though that's probably relative to the thickness of the object
> (i.e. the piece of cloth) that you're coating. There must also be an upper
> limit to how thick the cloth can be; to use the board example, I would
> guess that you couldn't just coat a board with a few layers of slip and
> fire it and get a perfect replica of the board (A hollow replica, though)
> out of the kiln.
>
> Anyone with experience in this out there? Or shall I just start
> experimenting?? :) Thanks!
>
> jenni
> jlexau@cwis.unomaha.edu
>
> "When all else fails, manipulate the data."
Hi Jenni,
It will work with any substrate which will absorb the slip. Works best
with slip the consistency of heavy cream but thinner will woek to a
lesser degree. Yes the flammable material burns out nicely. No upper
limit that I know of so experiement.
Paul
--
Paul J. Monaghan email: paul@web2u.com
WEB2U Productions --- http://www.web2u.com
The "COOLEST" Site on the WEB
"The Computer Secrets are hidden at http://www.web2u.com/secret"
"HOMO CLAYARTUS" is alive at http://www.web2u.com/clayart
Marcy Eady on wed 24 sep 97
>
> I've seen some work which I think was made by dipping cloth (lace, etc)
in
> either throwing or casting slip and just laying it on the surface of a
> thrown pot. What's left after firing seems to be a fairly sturdy, perfect
> replica of the cloth, including the texture.
> I'm wondering if anyone here is familiar with this technique and knows
> if throwing slip can be used, or if it must be done with casting slip.
At class last week there was a piece of cheese cloth laying around and also
some wonderful liquid and lumpfree slip in our recyclying buckets. So I
tested it. The slip was thick enough to give my fingers a nice even
coating. I dipped the cheese cloth in the slip and hung it with pins from
a shelf to dry. Then popped it in the kiln. It looks wonderful, with
every strand visible. Now I have to figure out a use for this thing.
Marcy
from the panhandle Florida
where summer is still in full force
K. Urban on fri 26 sep 97
Jenni,
I have used fabric many times. Porcelin works beautifully. We used to
make porcelin figures with lace and so on. When I started pottery, I used
lace and other fabrics to add texture etc. I don't know a lot but will
share my experience with you.
I have used both casting slip and clay slip. I even use the slip from my
scrap bucket. The fabric must be an absorbant material. ie natural fibers
vs man made. Synthetic fibers do not absorb enough of the slip. I used
ribbons to make large bows for my grandaughters curtain tiebacks. She got
the idea from some huge Hair bows I made for her. She asked me if I could
make them from clay for her room. The rest is history and they are
darling. I merely glued the attaching apparatus to the backs. It works
best to dip it and then form it but can be done the other way.
I believe the type of material used should be an important factor in the
thickness of the slip. I love draping different things on my pots for
texture. One can come up with some very interesting things.
As long as the fabric will absorb the slip, I can't think of why there
would be size limits. Please let me know how things come out.
I hope this is of some help to you.
Good Luck,
Kaye in Marshall, MI
At 06:58 AM 9/23/97 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I have a question that kind of goes along with this "armature" idea. I'm
>not sure how to explain what I'm asking....try to bear with me.
>
>I've seen some work which I think was made by dipping cloth (lace, etc) in
>either throwing or casting slip and just laying it on the surface of a
>thrown pot. What's left after firing seems to be a fairly sturdy, perfect
>replica of the cloth, including the texture.
>
>I'm thinking that, like Flo said, any organic material used for this would
>"burn out" during firing. It seems that any such material would work for
>this type of "effect."
>
>I'm wondering if anyone here is familiar with this technique and knows
>if throwing slip can be used, or if it must be done with casting slip.
>
>I also wonder if there's a certain thickness to which the slip must be
>applied - though that's probably relative to the thickness of the object
>(i.e. the piece of cloth) that you're coating. There must also be an upper
>limit to how thick the cloth can be; to use the board example, I would
>guess that you couldn't just coat a board with a few layers of slip and
>fire it and get a perfect replica of the board (A hollow replica, though)
>out of the kiln.
>
>Anyone with experience in this out there? Or shall I just start
>experimenting?? :) Thanks!
>
>jenni
>jlexau@cwis.unomaha.edu
>
>"When all else fails, manipulate the data."
>
>
One never knows when one tiny piece will pull the puzzle together.
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