Hluch - Kevin A. on sun 4 may 97
ClayArters,
For those of you who insist there is no difference between "art" and
"craft" you may want to read the article by Michael Kernan in the May
Smithsonian magazine about Ah-Leon's recent installation of his ceramic
"Bridge".
A few quotes might be of interest in terms of clarifying the difference
between "art" and "craft":
Quote: "His first step was to take up ceramics. He made teapots and became
very good at it. But this palled on him too. Teapots were too
functional, too much a mere craft. What to do?"
And: "'I was getting tired of teapots, even bonsai teapots,' the artist
recalled. 'I wanted something even less traditional. I had made a
railroad tie teapot out of clay and made it look as much like worn wood as
possible. That was pretty radical, but it still didn't go far enough.'".
Further: "I remember that one American potter told me that the key to
success was to make a piece shocking. 'Either make it huge or red or
gold....' So Ah-Leon started thinking big".(I guess kinda like Voulkos.)
More: "The 44 year old Ah-Leon insists he used to be 'just a country
bumpkin making teapots'." (Apparently no longer since this "Bridge"
triumph.)
The article states that even though he had to make financial sacrifices
for his art (Bridge) he now can go back to his craft (pots) to make his
living: "'We took out a loan on our home, so now when I go back, I have to
face my financial problems.' Fourtunately, Ah-Leon's works are always in
demand. One like 'Branch Teapot' sells for about $10,000". (Apparently,
price tags like these don't make his pots art either.)
Well, there you have it. This guy knows the difference between art and
craft. His "merely craft" teapots brings home the bacon but IT'S JUST NOT
ART! One obviously has to suffer through making huge, useless expressions
that can only be housed in museums to be considered an artist. Kinda makes
me want to bay at the moon like a dog....Hey, that's art too I guess!
Please people, let's keep things clear in our minds when we think about
art and craft.
Kevin A. Hluch
102 E. 8th St.
Frederick, MD 21701
USA
e-mail: kahluch@umd5.umd.edu
Harvey Sadow on mon 5 may 97
Hluch - Kevin A. wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> ClayArters,
>
> For those of you who insist there is no difference between "art" and
> "craft" you may want to read the article by Michael Kernan in the May
> Smithsonian magazine about Ah-Leon's recent installation of his ceramic
> "Bridge".
Just because it's in Smithsonian Magazine doesn't mean you have to
agree with it!
Sherry mcDonald Stewart on mon 5 may 97
One day a young Japanese man living in his new small home in Northern
Honshu decided it was time to get out and buy some vessels to place in
his home. He was a cook, and cooks do that! He had no problem when it
came to finding the clay vessels he would use everyday. He knew just
what to look for. He knew that they would have to be sturdy, well made,
constructed with strength to withstand everyday use. They would have a
strong lip, that might chip, but not crack with normal usage. Such
considerations he would take into account, but there were many pots that
fit that criteria, and he bought them, and he took them home to put into
his home on the first day.
When it came time to look for a cup, it was not so easy to decide.
There were many to look at, but they were all different colors, and
different shapes, and he apparently had some kind of personal preference
that was dictating what he wanted. It was a though he was searching for
something he had never seen, something lovely, something that was made
just for him in a way. It was more like finding the right woman to
marry, he thought. He continued in his search, and finally one day after
searching over a few years, he found the special cup. he took it home,
and he put it on the shelf that was the place he had long known was
reserved for this cup. He did not put it with the other dishes and
bowls.
Everyday, the man made his green tea, at least several times a day, and
he would almost ceremoniously go to the shelf after his cup, and fill it
with tea, and he would sit on his tatami matt in the room of his
ancestors, and he would drink his tea from his cup. The man also found
his wife, who he treated very much the same way he treated his cup. He
did not think of her as serving him, but rather as having a special
relationship with him, although she did serve him. But he did also serve
her. The man was a chef, and he liked to cook so much that he even
cooked at home. He used the dishes that he had picked out to serve food
in, and he sipped tea from his cup, and he shared his cup with his wife
until they found a cup for her, then together they would sit on the
tatami mat and sip their green tea together. The cups they held in their
hands became more lovely to them over time.
Within a few years, they had a child, and then another, and as the
children grew, they, learned that these cups were special. They knew
that they were beautiful, and belonged to their Mother and Father, and
when they saw these cups, they felt a warmth. There was something about
these cups, they knew that oneday, these cups would be passed on down to
them.
The man had his pots and his pans, and over the years they became
dinged and dented and old looking, and the pottery dishes became
chipped, and some broke and had to be thrown away, but he was very fond
of his utensils, and he never thought about getting new ones to replace
them. He was sad every time he had to throw one away, and finally, just
one serving dish was left to him.
after many years everything in the home had taken on some certain
significance, and the man would sometimes sit and sip his green tea from
his cup, and think about his special cup, and his pottery dishes, and
his wife, and his children, and the history that had developed, and the
relationship that had developed with people and things. He would show a
visitor, for instance, his childrens growth marks that were carved into
the wall, and he would remember how the children, when they were young,
would poke holes through the square paper sections of sliding windows to
peek at the adults when company came to visit, and they were told to go
to play in their rooms, or outside. He could still see their dancing
eyes peeping through the holes in the paper. He had done it as a child
himself, and he had wonderful memories of being mischievious. His
children were grown now, and perhaps they would bring him Grandchildren.
One day, the man came home from the restaurant that he now owned, to
find that his house was on fire. He dashed inside, his first thought was
for his wife, but she was not in the house. It was burning and there was
nothing he could do about it. He had time, however, to pick something to
take with him. He ran into the kitchen, and what do you think he decided
upon, the cups that were his and his wifes, or do you think that at the
last minute, he remembered how well the pottery bowl had served him, and
that he grabbed that? There was not time to get both. Which do you think
he took? And why? Sherry M Stewart
Kat Berger on tue 6 may 97
Remember that just because it's functional doesn't mean that it's not art and
just because it sits in a museum -one doesn't mean it can't be functional and
two doesn't mean that it's art
museum are also there to capture and hold on to the past
Art is continuing changing- something that was considered a functional craft
piece at one point in time, now sits on a pedestool in a museum for our
generations to worship.
Maybe the art/craft issue is both a personal one and a cultural one. But no
matter where you stand on and in the issue as long as you work diligently and
faithfully to your beliefs then you are a valued member for both sides of the
issue.
TCampb3789 on mon 19 may 97
If there are 100 levels of hell they are probably discussing art vs. craft
on each one ...spare us !!!!!!
Mel Jacobson on wed 7 jan 98
as long as i am up on this little milk carton:
there is not a controversy worth talking about in the
art/craft debate....it is nonsense.
there is no controversy....
people can make, show, exhibit anything they want.
gallery owners can show, exhibit and sell anything they want.
magazine editors can show whatever they feel like.....
that is call freedom.
if you do not like it....don't buy it.
if you do not like it...turn the page.....but don't tell others not to like
it, or buy it...or love it.
every time i go to the `walker art center` in minneapolis i get pissed
off....but that is why i go....to get pissed off at art. that is my
privilege.....and i get to do it.... but every so often i go....and my eyes
are opened to a new and wonderful image...and i get excited.
what a wonderful thing art is......
mel/mn
http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Don Jones on fri 9 jan 98
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>as long as i am up on this little milk carton:
>
>there is not a controversy worth talking about in the
>art/craft debate....it is nonsense.
>
>there is no controversy....
>
Sorry Mel
But you are wrong on this issue. The controversy comes with the venue in
which either the art or craft is viewed or sold. Money issues come into
play also. The controversy is never philosophical always economic. We
wouldn't always be bringing this up if we didn't always run into problems
on where to show and how much to ask. We always bump into ignorance on the
quality and nature of what we do. It would never be an issue if everything
we make was cheap.
Don Jones
claysky@highfiber.com
:-) implied in all messages and replies
http://highfiber.com/~claysky
Helllll on sat 10 jan 98
Big Daddy Mel wrote-----
>there is not a controversy worth talking about in the
>>art/craft debate....it is nonsense.
>>
>>there is no controversy....
Big Daddy Jones wrote-----
>Sorry Mel
>But you are wrong on this issue. The controversy comes with the venue in
>which either the art or craft is viewed or sold. Money issues come into
>play also. The controversy is never philosophical always economic. We
>wouldn't always be bringing this up if we didn't always run into problems
>on where to show and how much to ask. We always bump into ignorance on the
>quality and nature of what we do. It would never be an issue if everything
>we make was cheap.
>
>
I think what Mel is trying to say is....
in reality the controversy doesn't exist....
I think what Don is trying to say is....
in reality the controversy does exist....
and in reality........ they are correct!!!!!!!!
Peace
creating, exploring, making, experiencing
Hank in OKC Oklahellma
Helllll@aol.com
knik at kodiak on tue 10 sep 02
I'm impressed.
My husband built a kayak from wood and canvas years ago. He also built
double ended paddles from 2x4's laminated with 2x6's. He taught our
oldest son to make single bladed paddles. It took a lot of time to learn
to pick out the right wood, to use dad's tools correctly, to shape it,
sand it and varnish it. He entered into a 4-H craft show and lost to a
boy who bought a straw hat and hotglued flowers to it. It was pretty. But...
Marilynn
mel jacobson wrote:
> when you make pots, you must master the elements of throwing,
> building, clay
> body, glaze, chemistry, physics, fire. nothing much creative happens
> until
> you are in control of your media. people think that they can make
> great art without study, but what happens is `accidental`. control
> of the media means that you can repeat success, over and over.
> craftsmanship means you have control. with control comes confidence,
> with confidence comes more work, more work makes the end
> result better, then you get more confidence.
> a wonderful cycle.
> craft, confidence, control, craftsmanship, creativity, art.
>
> when the world at large rejects your work, well maybe you have
> a problem. maybe it is time to re-evaluate. good friends and teachers
> will give solid critique, honest, straight forward critique with
> constructive
> help. it often hurts those that have grown up thinking that whatever
> they do is wonderful, and they cannot do wrong. sorry, i have never
> found anyone that cannot get help, or that could not use solid discussion
> with friends and teachers. critique is about the work, not the person.
> the work must always be judged. often you are the worst judge.
> when the maker gets caught up in the work, it is hard to step away,
> judge objectively. others can see more clearly. (at least well trained,
> honest professionals.)
>
> ________________________________________________
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>
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
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>
> .
>
Sue Ballou on wed 11 sep 02
Mel,
I have to take issue with your view of why kids dress
they way they do. Certainly it is a form of
expression, but I don't think most of them think they
are expressing individuality. They dress as others
with whom they identify dress. When I was a teenager,
there was the "hippie intellectual" look, the "jock"
look, the "preppie" look, etc. Kids today do the
same. They may individualize the look a bit to their
own taste.
I think we who strive to make art and/or craft do the
same. The pots of the people I most admire are
reflected in my pots. I don't copy their work, but
you can see it in mine. The better I get, the more
individual my pots are, but there are still elements
of my teachers' works & others in my work.
As kids become more sure of who they are, their dress
becomes more individual. My 14 year old son wears the
ugliest argyle sweaters & bow ties to school he can
fine. He's thumbing his nose at the whole Jr. High
dress game, but he's still experimenting. He'll move
on in time. We all do. I still wear jeans just as I
did in high school 30 years ago, but they no longer
have to be Levis or bell bottoms.
Sue
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Dave Murphy on wed 11 sep 02
In addition to Mel's previous post on the subject a recent "ART" that I
attended had several potters and ceramic artists along with painters and
drawers and jewelers etc. A lot of the work was good some was outstanding.
I have been potting since the seventies and have seen things I think at
least twice. There had been awards (substantial) given to various media.
The ceramics award went to a potter/ceramic artist whose pieces, while
pleasing where IMHO student work. I am pretty sure as well that the
individual did not do the firing of these pots or at lease not the reduction
ones.
There were people exhibiting that had "resolved" pieces of exceptional
quality, craftmanship and beauty as well as a terrific booth display. I
just shook my head but it still made me mad.
Barbara Murphy
Waterloo County Pottery
Waterloo Ontario
Canada
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