kathy jean rhoades on wed 9 oct 96
Hello All, I am new to clayart and thought that asking a question would
be a great way to get involved. I am a student at UNM and we are
discussing artists unions, good or bad, and why isn't there one. Anyone
have any comments? Thanks, Rhoades:)
Don Sanami on thu 10 oct 96
Yes,Kathy Jean there is an Artists union....at least there was one
inBoston,Mass. As I recall Arnold Trachtman,of Cambridge,Mass was very
much involved. Certainly an Artists union is very much needed,to give us
all some protection from voracious gallery owners,(No,No,not ALL) and
others happy to "help" the Artist by demanding exhorbitant fees aand
exhibition charhes. Then there are those lovely persons only too
willing to furnish their new shops for free.All too often,when the
Sheriff's padl ;ock goes on,the Artist's work is non-removable. Keep
pitching.Don & Isao. On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, kathy jean rhoades wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hello All, I am new to clayart and thought that asking a question would
> be a great way to get involved. I am a student at UNM and we are
> discussing artists unions, good or bad, and why isn't there one. Anyone
> have any comments? Thanks, Rhoades:)
>
Bill Aycock on thu 10 oct 96
At 10:43 PM 10/9/96 EDT, you (Kathy Jean Rhoades) wrote: *** in part ***
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
we are discussing artists unions, good or bad, and why isn't there one.
Kathy- a "union" is just that- a collection of people with a common cause,
joined together to present a united front with the expectation of doing
"collective bargaining"
several things are implied here; 1. you must have a common cause . 2. you
must have something you do that is assumed to be desirable to another
organization or entity.
3. there must be another party with which to bargain. 4. you (the union)
must have some action (usually a withdrawing of services) that is a threat
to the party with which you are bargaining.
The real problems with an artists union are that most are independant
workers, not groups working together.; there is no real organization with
which to bargain. (who are you going to strike against?); Withdrawing your
services is not perceived to be a threat.; If you are good enough that
withdrawing your services is a threat to others, then you are good enough to
not need the group action of a union.
This could be expanded upon at great length, but I think I will withhold
further services in this vein until my demands are met. (Word merchants of
the world, UNITE)
Bill- on Persimmon Hill- closing with the thought that one of lifes greatest
challenges is to write a Limerick that is both clean and funny.
Bill Aycock --- Persimmon Hill --- Woodville, Alabama, USA
--- (in the N.E. corner of the State)
also-- W4BSG -- Grid EM64vr
Don Sanami on sun 13 oct 96
Bill, there ISA an artists union in Massachusetts. There IS Equity for
artists of another stripe. Doctors have a
union,Lawyers,also.Plumbers,electricians,maintenance workersa. Surely
there are individuals enough amongst all those groups. None of them march
to the beat of a saingle drum. Canada has an excellent Artists union,as
does Mexico and other countries. "Strike against?" An Artists union
withholds its services and makews rules by wqhich both Artists and
galleries muist abide. I feel sure that the Mine Mill and Smelter Workers
Union would be happy to tender advice. don & isaoOn Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Bill
Aycock wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> At 10:43 PM 10/9/96 EDT, you (Kathy Jean Rhoades) wrote: *** in part ***
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> we are discussing artists unions, good or bad, and why isn't there one.
>
> Kathy- a "union" is just that- a collection of people with a common cause,
> joined together to present a united front with the expectation of doing
> "collective bargaining"
>
> several things are implied here; 1. you must have a common cause . 2. you
> must have something you do that is assumed to be desirable to another
> organization or entity.
> 3. there must be another party with which to bargain. 4. you (the union)
> must have some action (usually a withdrawing of services) that is a threat
> to the party with which you are bargaining.
>
> The real problems with an artists union are that most are independant
> workers, not groups working together.; there is no real organization with
> which to bargain. (who are you going to strike against?); Withdrawing your
> services is not perceived to be a threat.; If you are good enough that
> withdrawing your services is a threat to others, then you are good enough to
> not need the group action of a union.
>
> This could be expanded upon at great length, but I think I will withhold
> further services in this vein until my demands are met. (Word merchants of
> the world, UNITE)
>
> Bill- on Persimmon Hill- closing with the thought that one of lifes greatest
> challenges is to write a Limerick that is both clean and funny.
>
> Bill Aycock --- Persimmon Hill --- Woodville, Alabama, USA
> --- (in the N.E. corner of the State)
> also-- W4BSG -- Grid EM64vr
>
David Harriman on sun 13 oct 96
My two cents worth!
By the very nature of being an artist (an individual), in my opinion,
the possibility of ever making an effective union is a total waste of
time. I don't want others deciding how I can produce and distribute my
work. If we were creating the same products in a production line
fashion, then let's unionize. I am an individual and want to stay that
way!
The best way to get the most from your efforts, is to work with
honorable people. They do exist. Sell it yourself, like I do. It
takes time but I am able to sell all the pots I make.
David Harriman - Brown County, Indiana
Don Sanami on mon 14 oct 96
David, If being an Artist means being an individual then no village
worker anywhere on earth is an Artist. M. Angelo couldn't have been an
Artist since all he did was to prepare the Machete from which larger
pieces were scaled-up. Individualism is a myth perpetuated by the
upper-classes as a sop to the middle -class which stands between upper
and "lower" classes in an industrial society. The great upsurge in
cxrafts,which have taken place several times within the past 300
years,have been middle-class answers to bankruptcy. Increasing automation
has made the MC unnecessary and some means had to be discovered to
justify our 'individual' value and respectability....some means by which
we could make a living and still maintain our belief in our own value.
All the business of "Spirituallity". "Individual Expression"...from
William Morris on to the present is nonsense,but it makes us feel nice.I
suggest you read "Art as Property". If you sell everything you make,it
seems reasonable to assume that you make no radical moves. Kinokmo.On
Sun, 13 Oct 1996, David Harriman wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> My two cents worth!
>
> By the very nature of being an artist (an individual), in my opinion,
> the possibility of ever making an effective union is a total waste of
> time. I don't want others deciding how I can produce and distribute my
> work. If we were creating the same products in a production line
> fashion, then let's unionize. I am an individual and want to stay that
> way!
>
> The best way to get the most from your efforts, is to work with
> honorable people. They do exist. Sell it yourself, like I do. It
> takes time but I am able to sell all the pots I make.
>
> David Harriman - Brown County, Indiana
>
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