bats

updated sun 5 aug 12

dannon@ns1.koyote.com on fri 12 jul 96

I use 1/4 masonite bats, finished one side. For wheel-size bats I haven't
needed
anything thicker. They are easy to store, have lasted three years so far
with no signs of failure yet. I just got a 4 x 8 sheet, cut it into
one-foot squares, cut the corners off. For larger bats, thicker masonite,
so that the bats won't flex.

Dannon Rhudy

In Texas, where it is hot, but I care not at all, because I'm leaving for a
month of workshop in cooler climes. Please try not to discuss anything
interesting, provocative or informative until I return. Later, y'all.

Anne and David McFadden on sat 13 jul 96

I use particle-board bats..untreated. They don't splinter and absorb
quite well. The pin holes are drilled right through so that if they
get a clittle convex/concave due to water absorption, I can just flip
them over and no more wobble.
Another option (if you really like plywood) is marine plywood...the
stuff used for making boats. It will probably hold up a lot longer
than the regular stuff. You might be able to get it at a marina or
boat yard... where they make or repair wooden boats. If not there,
they will probably tell you where you can get it. Also check with
your lumberyard.

cgareri on sun 14 jul 96

Marina Plywood can usually be found at lumberyards. It is what sign painters us
Charlie Gareri
Dover Indiana

----------
From: Anne and David McFadden[SMTP:pekay@simcoe.igs.net]
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 1996 12:46 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list CLAYART
Subject: bats



----------------------------Original message----------------------------

I use particle-board bats..untreated. They don't splinter and absorb
quite well. The pin holes are drilled right through so that if they
get a clittle convex/concave due to water absorption, I can just flip
them over and no more wobble.
Another option (if you really like plywood) is marine plywood...the
stuff used for making boats. It will probably hold up a lot longer
than the regular stuff. You might be able to get it at a marina or
boat yard... where they make or repair wooden boats. If not there,
they will probably tell you where you can get it. Also check with
your lumberyard.

Joyce Lee, Jim Lee on wed 1 oct 97

Whoops...didn't mean to begin a controversy over something as
uncomplicated as the use of bats. However, while I take a seat waaay
in the back when it comes to knowledge of clay, glazes, firing, forming
and design before this superbly professional group, I take no back seat
when it comes to education. I'm waaay up in front with the rest of you.
It is easy for you unquestionably vastly experienced, and appreciated,
specialists with many, many years at the wheel to say that beginners do
not need bats. Wrong. YOU don't need to work on bats, although most of
you most likely do when it comes to your own personal work. However,
beginning students, who may never have another experience with clay
ever, deserve the best of equipment available given always-present
budget constraints...this includes clay, oxides, tools, equipment AND
bats in order to assure some order of success IF they are going to work
on the wheel. I agree that in order to experience the feel of clay as
fully as possible in a short time, a turn or several on a batless wheel
is probably mandatory, just as it's enriching to experience a kickwheel
before trying an electric, if possible, and to learn to work the clay by
hand rather than by pugmill. (I have noticed, however, that many classes
are phasing out their kickwheels.) However, having been a classroom
beginner in pottery at an advanced age and with little (almost no)
background in art, I know that I would have advanced faster if early on
I had worked on a bat...a good bat. It's easy to say "work drier." NOW
I understand what is meant. In the beginning, students don't even know
what working "wet" means. When Mel was in Japan, as I recall from his
memorable stories, he was already an experienced potter. That's not the
same thing. As to bats being a headache and flying off the wheel. I
agree. Teaching anything can be a headache. Keeping the materials abd
equipment intact and workable is almost always a headache. That's what
teachers are for: to facilitate learning and to deal with the headaches.
Students also routinely "forget" and leave the clay uncovered where it
dries to an unworkable lump; they even "forget" and leave uncovered
their almost-completed pots over which they have agonized in the making.
Do we not then offer them the best clay we can manage or do we furnish
them an inferior product because they don't deserve better, and they
"need" to learn to work with "bad" clay? Or do we teach them to
appreciate the materials? I repeat, students, expecially beginners,
deserve the very best available, including knowledge and equipment that
will aid in facilitating their learning. Our teachers used to say,
"teaching would be great if it weren't for the students..." BUT they
were joking.

Joyce
DR

Jacquelyn Lumsden on sun 5 oct 97

Having been too busy all week to read the messages, I am just catching up
on Sunday morning and am interested in the "bat" line.

I have particle board bats that are at least 25 years old and almost all
still perfectly fine. I also have some very small ones that are just about
4 or 5 inches in diameter that were cut-outs from speaker production
somewhere. These I attach to the wheel by a pad of clay about 1/2 " thick
with some grooves for suction. They are perfect for small things that I
consider nearly finished except for a pass over the bottom at the leather
hard stage.

I must say that I watched an amazing transformation in a wheel class just
this last week. I am teaching a "second level" wheel class at our Potters'
Workshop. These people have had an 8 week session already and have been
taught to throw on the wheel head and lift pots off. There is a
frustration level that I watched end when one of the women used a bat for
the first time, and actually had every pot she attempted be an undistorted
piece.At this level of experience it is not easy to work dry and the
height of the basin around the Brent and Shimpo wheelheads is not conducive
to sliding a piece off unless it is small and straight.

I think both methods have their place, and I agree that we want to
encourage students to be successful. If that means a bat on the wheel,
I'm all for it.

Jacquelyn Lumsden
Waterloo, Ont.

Mo Cain on mon 6 oct 97

I've been pottering for about two years now and am now reasonably
comfortable in passing on a bat system that has worked well for me and
the size pot I throw. I built a kickwheel and not knowing any better I
scrounged a wheelhead that had predrilled bat pins on 8" centres Started
off making bats with plaster poured into plastic dinner plates. Not very
good..not uniformly thick and the bat pin holes were apt to spall out.
Then I discovered 6" square bisqued tiles at about a buck a piece. The
diagonal dimension is a tad under 8.5" and by cutting a 1/4" notch in
diagonally opposite corners I have a collection of great bats that fit
perfectly over the pins. A suitable ceramic hacksaw blade is obtainable
at the hardware store and it cuts through the tile like the proverbial
hot Knife through b.... well you know. Two other tips.. grind the bat
pin heads down to match the thickness of the tile to prevent catching
the hands and mark one pin and one corner of the tile and the bats will
always be returned to the wheel head in the correct orientation. Hope
this helps someone out there.

MoCain expat Brit just back from the U.K. where we were completely
underwhelmed by too much Majolica.

Louise Jenks on wed 3 dec 97

Does anyone know of a source for 8"round masonite bats? Does anyone have a
comment on the 7 1/2" square bats from Creative Industries?

Louise, in Cincinnati

Lyla on thu 4 dec 97

At 09:54 AM 12/3/97 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Does anyone know of a source for 8"round masonite bats?

go to a lumber yard that has tempered masonite, 1/4 in. i got mine cut into
squares because circles were so much more expensive.

lyla
durham, NC
>

Ric Swenson on thu 4 dec 97

>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Does anyone know of a source for 8"round masonite bats? Does anyone have a
>comment on the 7 1/2" square bats from Creative Industries?
>
>Louise, in Cincinnati

------reply-------

Louise,

I do not know of a commercial source for 8" dia. masonite bats.....BUT

........you might try one of these ideas:

1.) buy a sheet of tempered (hard) masonite (1/8" or 1/4 " thick are the
choices) and cut the 4' x 8' sheet into circles or squares or diamonds or
whatever works for you. ( There maybe some qualities of hand and finger
safety inherent in the 'circular' spinning batt?? ....You will get used to
whatever you end up with.) Seal the edges cut with a sealant like
Varathane, varnish, shellac or ? If you are using batt pins on your
wheelhead; set up a jig for drilling the holes and have your wheelhead
close by to check the proper alignment and size of the holes on each as it
is drilled. They will all feel tight to begin with, but will wear - in
nicely with use. If you screw-up you get many second chances to get it
right.


2.) Pay someone else to do the above. A local (advanced) woodshop student
might take it on as a moneymaker. He/She learns some skills, make a little
$ and you get your batts. There might be a neighbor with the tools to
help, or a mill shop might do it on there "down" time more cheaply.


3.) Find a woodshop / carpenter that does a lot of bathroom sink
installations. The common 14 " dia FORMICA (c) covered 3/4 " thick
material is scrap and usually thrown out. I had great luck with finding a
place in nearby Cohoes, NY that had hundreds of these disks and was happy
to have me haul them off to the school in a pick up truck. It was a
lifetime supply of batts for the school. We drilled some with batt pin
holes and left them at 14" dia. Others we cut down to other appropriate
diameters for the various wheels in the studio. We sealed the edges and
all exposed (chip-board) backs with several coats of Varathane ( clear poly
urathane sealant ) The FORMICA surface lasts for a very long time. You
can throw on either surface, of course. We even color coded the edges of
the batts to match the spray painted edges of the wheelheads....because the
batt pins were different on some wheels.


4.) Brent ( nee AMACO ) did sell batts at one time. Do not know if they
still do. Contact the local clay supply house. They probably know where
to buy all sizes of batts, or can find out.



As with all materials used for throwing on the wheel, the material must
hold up to getting wet and drying again without warping. Sealing the
surfaces before use really helps. Scraping the dried clay off and avoiding
WASHING at the sink...as in underwater and soaking for prolonged periods.



Hope this helps.


Ric

***********************************************************
FROM : Ric Swenson, Bennington College, Route 67 - A
Bennington, Vermont 05201 - 6001 U.S.A.
( 802 ) 440 - 4621 or fax ( 802 ) 440 - 4582
email: rswenson@bennington.edu
"Opinions expressed are mine..... usual disclaimers apply."
************************************************************
" Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like an avacado ".

wike on thu 4 dec 97

I love the round bats from Creative Industries, but the square
ones just are irritating. I can't get used to the lopsided
feel and look of them on the wheel.
--
Patty
Wike@twave.net

DONPREY on thu 4 dec 97

Louise,
I have used the square, CI bats for about four years and like them alot.
Initially, I didn't think I was going to like them, but after just a bit of
use they began to make a lot of sense to me and have held up well under my
light to moderate demands.

Don Prey in Oregon

John H. Rodgers on fri 5 dec 97

-- [ From: John H. Rodgers * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Following up on this batt thread, for simplicity stick with the square cut
unless you have a problem with corners. The 1/4" material is good but
cutting them round is a real pain, and takes a lot of time on a bandsaw,
jigsaw, router or whatever. Most places, particularly lumber supply
businesses, that might have the right kind of masonite, will usually cut it
for you. There may be a small fee but they usually have a tablesaw or radial
arm saw that will make quick work of it, and you can go home with your
square batts already cut. You will only need to drill your holes to match
the pins on your wheelhead. I have friends who are production potters and
use huindreds of batts daily. Thats all they ever use, is the square ones.

John Rodgers
In Alabama
-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------

Date: Thursday, 04-Dec-97 08:05 AM

From: Lyla \ Internet: (lkaplan@vt.edu)
To: CLAYART LIST \ Internet: (clayart@lsv.uky.edu)

Subject: Re: bats

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
At 09:54 AM 12/3/97 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Does anyone know of a source for 8"round masonite bats?

go to a lumber yard that has tempered masonite, 1/4 in. i got mine cut into
squares because circles were so much more expensive.

lyla
durham, NC
>


-------- REPLY, End of original message --------

Stephen Mills on sat 6 dec 97

If you have access to a small hobby bandsaw you can cut discs on it very
easily: drill a small hole e.g.1/8" 4" from and at right angles to the
saw blade in the work table. Drill the same size hole in the centre of
your batt material. push a 1/8" rod through both holes, set the saw
running and turn the material round. Result nice round 8" batts, easily
repeated!
Steve
in Bath
UK

making batts by the hundred!!


>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>Does anyone know of a source for 8"round masonite bats? Does anyone have a
>>comment on the 7 1/2" square bats from Creative Industries?
>>
>>Louise, in Cincinnati
>
>------reply-------
>
>Louise,
>
>I do not know of a commercial source for 8" dia. masonite bats.....BUT
>
>.......you might try one of these ideas:
>
>1.) buy a sheet of tempered (hard) masonite (1/8" or 1/4 " thick are the
>choices) and cut the 4' x 8' sheet into circles or squares or diamonds or
>whatever works for you. ( There maybe some qualities of hand and finger
>safety inherent in the 'circular' spinning batt?? ....You will get used to
>whatever you end up with.) Seal the edges cut with a sealant like
>Varathane, varnish, shellac or ? If you are using batt pins on your
>wheelhead; set up a jig for drilling the holes and have your wheelhead
>close by to check the proper alignment and size of the holes on each as it
>is drilled. They will all feel tight to begin with, but will wear - in
>nicely with use. If you screw-up you get many second chances to get it
>right.
>
>
>2.) Pay someone else to do the above. A local (advanced) woodshop student
>might take it on as a moneymaker. He/She learns some skills, make a little
>$ and you get your batts. There might be a neighbor with the tools to
>help, or a mill shop might do it on there "down" time more cheaply.
>
>
>3.) Find a woodshop / carpenter that does a lot of bathroom sink
>installations. The common 14 " dia FORMICA (c) covered 3/4 " thick
>material is scrap and usually thrown out. I had great luck with finding a
>place in nearby Cohoes, NY that had hundreds of these disks and was happy
>to have me haul them off to the school in a pick up truck. It was a
>lifetime supply of batts for the school. We drilled some with batt pin
>holes and left them at 14" dia. Others we cut down to other appropriate
>diameters for the various wheels in the studio. We sealed the edges and
>all exposed (chip-board) backs with several coats of Varathane ( clear poly
>urathane sealant ) The FORMICA surface lasts for a very long time. You
>can throw on either surface, of course. We even color coded the edges of
>the batts to match the spray painted edges of the wheelheads....because the
>batt pins were different on some wheels.
>
>
>4.) Brent ( nee AMACO ) did sell batts at one time. Do not know if they
>still do. Contact the local clay supply house. They probably know where
>to buy all sizes of batts, or can find out.
>
>
>
>As with all materials used for throwing on the wheel, the material must
>hold up to getting wet and drying again without warping. Sealing the
>surfaces before use really helps. Scraping the dried clay off and avoiding
>WASHING at the sink...as in underwater and soaking for prolonged periods.
>
>
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>
>Ric
>
>***********************************************************
>FROM : Ric Swenson, Bennington College, Route 67 - A
> Bennington, Vermont 05201 - 6001 U.S.A.
>( 802 ) 440 - 4621 or fax ( 802 ) 440 - 4582
>email: rswenson@bennington.edu
>"Opinions expressed are mine..... usual disclaimers apply."
>************************************************************
>" Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like an avacado ".
>

--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
home tel: (44) (0)1225 311699
work tel: (44) (0)1225 337046

Chris Trabka on tue 9 dec 97

Louise Jenks wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Does anyone know of a source for 8"round masonite bats? Does anyone have a
> comment on the 7 1/2" square bats from Creative Industries?
>
> Louise, in Cincinnati
I have tried the square plastic bats. I liked the concept but not the
price. Since then I get a 4' x 8' sheet of melanite (white coated wood
fiber material) for about $20, cut it down to small squares, drill holes
for the "pegs" on my brent wheel head, and round the edges (so the edges
- especially the corners don't bite). I find that I can throw most small
and medium pots without any difficulty. These bats take up less space
and can be abused quite a bit, but they don't seem to hold up well to
soaking.

Chris

Joseph Herbert on wed 8 nov 00

I guess I will put in a word for the Mexican Free Tail Bat that has taken
residence in the Congress Street Bridge in Austin, TX. What could have been
a program of eradication was shifted by bat lovers (bat lobbyers?) into
tolerance and now tourism. Millions of these bats live part of the year in
this downtown Austin bridge. Their nightly goings, I don’t think there is
the same attendance at their return, are observed by many. A summer
tradition there. These animals make a significant impact on night flying
insect populations. In general that is reported as a good thing. I suppose
that much of their eating is of moths that are often farm pests and
mosquitoes. So far no one has come forward as defenders of that last group.
Anyway, in other times there might have been mass poisonings and now there
is a tolerance headed toward fascination. You can probably get a T-shirt.

Joseph Herbert

Bill Karaffa on thu 28 dec 00

Being kinda cheap I never wanted to spend the $$ for premade bats. I've
made bats ranging from 6" to 24" using particle board and a saber saw. After
the circles are cut out I stick dowel points in the wheelhead and tap center
(ahh yes...) the fresh cut bat, once centered a good bang with your hand and
the hole centers are set and ready to drill, but don't drill all the way
through the bat, only deep enough for your bat pins to have a little
clearance.
Now for some finishing touches mount the bats on your wheel and let'er rip,
take a sanding block and give her a nice smooth finish, get the edges real
good so they're smooth, and then sponge off. Now if you used a compass to
draw your original circle there will be a small hole in the center of the
bat from the compass pin, I like to draw a pencil line across the bat in
line with the pins, it makes lining up the holes with the pins easier. Next
I draw circles on the bat in 1" increments as an aide for centering and
guide for plate or bowl sizes (chuck those calibers). I also like to make a
registration mark on one side of the bat, this lets me replace a pot on the
wheel the right way the first time for additions or corrections. Finally
give your new bat 4 or 5 coats of polyurethane, both sides, and get the pin
holes too. You may have to ream the holes after you're done but they won't
absorb water this way.
I've used some bats made this way now for about 25 years with only a
sanding and new coat of poly every 5 years or so. Over the years some of the
holes have gotten larger, but I've found that putting 3 or 4 small balls of
clay on the wheelhead under the bat and smackin it good keeps them from
wiggling around or rocking.
Sound like a lotta work? Well yah, a couple days, but under $100 invested,
and still going after 25 years. You get what you invest in tools that you
buy or make, just depends on whether you want to shell out the bucks or
spend your time.


Bill Karaffa
Firemouth Pottery and Gallery
http://fp1.centurytel.net/karaffa

michael wendt on thu 28 dec 00

I second Bill's methods with a few extra tips:
1. Get high density particle board since it comes in 97X 49 inch size to
allow for saw cuts.
2. Use a chalk line to make the compass grids for layout.
3. do all drawing of circles on the back side of the bats.
4. Finish coat the bats with urethane on both sides before you cut the
sheet. It is very fast this way instead of handling dozens of sticky pieces.
5. Make a 1" X 1/4" X 13" metal bar with your bat pin spacing drilled at the
ends, a single small nail hole at one of the ends to prevent turning during
drilling and a small hole dead center where you tap in a small nail to the
spot where you make the compass point. This allows you to drill the bats
with perfect hole spacing every time so the holes don't wear out. Mine are
also 25 years old. Follow all of the rest of his instructions below.
Regards,
Michael Wendt wendtpot@lewiston.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Karaffa
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 7:11 AM
Subject: Bats


> Being kinda cheap I never wanted to spend the $$ for premade bats.
I've
> made bats ranging from 6" to 24" using particle board and a saber saw.
After
> the circles are cut out I stick dowel points in the wheelhead and tap
center
> (ahh yes...) the fresh cut bat, once centered a good bang with your hand
and
> the hole centers are set and ready to drill, but don't drill all the way
> through the bat, only deep enough for your bat pins to have a little
> clearance.
> Now for some finishing touches mount the bats on your wheel and
let'er rip,
> take a sanding block and give her a nice smooth finish, get the edges real
> good so they're smooth, and then sponge off. Now if you used a compass to
> draw your original circle there will be a small hole in the center of the
> bat from the compass pin, I like to draw a pencil line across the bat in
> line with the pins, it makes lining up the holes with the pins easier.
Next
> I draw circles on the bat in 1" increments as an aide for centering and
> guide for plate or bowl sizes (chuck those calibers). I also like to make
a
> registration mark on one side of the bat, this lets me replace a pot on
the
> wheel the right way the first time for additions or corrections. Finally
> give your new bat 4 or 5 coats of polyurethane, both sides, and get the
pin
> holes too. You may have to ream the holes after you're done but they won't
> absorb water this way.
> I've used some bats made this way now for about 25 years with only
a
> sanding and new coat of poly every 5 years or so. Over the years some of
the
> holes have gotten larger, but I've found that putting 3 or 4 small balls
of
> clay on the wheelhead under the bat and smackin it good keeps them from
> wiggling around or rocking.
> Sound like a lotta work? Well yah, a couple days, but under $100
invested,
> and still going after 25 years. You get what you invest in tools that you
> buy or make, just depends on whether you want to shell out the bucks or
> spend your time.
>
>
> Bill Karaffa
> Firemouth Pottery and Gallery
> http://fp1.centurytel.net/karaffa
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>

Cindy Strnad on mon 1 jan 01

Marianne wrote:
I made two square bats recently, and got a nasty gash on my hand the first
time I used them. They did not stick out over the edge of the wheel either,
but somehow I got cut.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good point. I like the square bats, though. I started out by cutting a
square hole in a round bat, then using square masonite bats to fill the
hole. After throwing, I'd pry out the masonite bat, place it on the drying
shelf, and insert the next candidate. This worked fine, only the bats would
sometimes bend on removal, not being rigid enough to hold their form. They
also warped, of course. Not a real big problem, but annoying. Anyway, the
holder (the round bat with the square hole) kept the bats' pointy corners
from damaging my fingers.

So, I decided to switch to tiles. I got square tiles the same size as my
masonite bats and fit them into the square hole instead. They bulge out
above the hole a little bit, and are harder to pry out, but they do hold an
absolutely rigid profile--so they don't cause bowls and such to warp on
removal.

On the down side, I chose a low-fire, slightly rough-surfaced tile in hope
it would draw moisture from the pot bottoms and self-release. They don't
generally do this, though. At least, not until the pot is too dry to apply a
handle or carved decoration.

I would choose a high-fire, smooth but unglazed porcelain tile if I were
buying them today. I've gotten used to what I have and I can work with it
just fine, but you probably wouldn't want to work with such a rough tile.

Also, if they chip on the edges (which they seldom do), these tiles can
really slice up your fingers. So watch for chips. Otherwise, they work great
and I enjoy throwing on them.

Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com

Larry Phillips on mon 1 jan 01

Cindy Strnad wrote:
>
> So, I decided to switch to tiles. I got square tiles the same size as my
> masonite bats and fit them into the square hole instead. They bulge out
> above the hole a little bit, and are harder to pry out, but they do hold an
> absolutely rigid profile--so they don't cause bowls and such to warp on
> removal.

They might be easier to pry out if you cut a notch in one side of the
square hole. Leave enough of the side to keep the tile from shifting,
though.

--
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room!

http://cr347197-a.surrey1.bc.wave.home.com/larry/

Val on sun 7 jan 01

I have a question and it might sound silly to you but please believe
me it's not to me.....a new bat....what side is the right side to
use? Thanks....

Dupre Mr Marcy M on wed 12 mar 03

Heh, heh, heh! So you want to know all about bats, eh? Here in the Studio,
we have all sorts of bats. Some will even attach themselves to your neck,
and... Well, you'll see!

"Bats that throw oval..." "Bats that don't stick to the clay..." "Bats,
bats, bats." I use several different types of bats, some plaster, some
wood, some plastic.

The plaster ones (and hydrostone, too) I cast myself using the molds that
came with the bucket wheelhead from Thomas Stuart. They are bulky, heavy,
and somewhat fragile--on the downside. They are absorbent, easy to
re-register in the wheelhead, and easy to clean. They last a LONG time!

The wood ones, I cut with a sabersaw from 0.5" marine-grade plywood, and
treated with several applications of linseed oil and turpentine, mixed
50/50. I attach them to the wheelhead with clay, then cut them off with a
thin wire.

The plastic ones I buy through Campbell's at Pine Ridge, in Alexandria, VA.
I do not remember the brand. They are made in several sizes, the smallest
being 7" square. The backs have a reinforced lattice to reduce warping and
the tops are smooth, which I roughen slightly with 80 grit sandpaper. They
have two sets of batpin holes, based on differing centers.

I sometimes throw from the wheelhead directly, but not often.

Here, the point is that not one of these bats "makes" me throw oval,
trapezoid, square, or slightly out of round. _I_ am the only one who can do
that. If I secure the bat to the wheelhead, and center my clay (a
"*porcelanous* ^6") properly, I could probably throw from a saucepan
lid. {Might just try that, to see if it _can_ be done :o)}

I have read of using canvas bats, recycled cutouts from sink installations,
heavy waxed pressboard, masonite, lexan (tm), and just about any material
that will hold still long enough to be tested as a throwing substrate.
Haven't tried them all yet.

What fascinates me is all the different techniques chronicled here from all
over the world. In the US, we have so much high-technology, it's a wonder
we can achieve any spontaneity at all. We calculate clays and glazes to the
n-th mole, press to tolerances of 1/100000 of an inch, and gripe about
miniscule imperfections.

Yet, I read a post from someone who is studying in India, who tells of
potters pulling up to a village, yanking the wheel off the cart, ramming a
stick in the ground, and making pots off the hub of the wheel. The clay is
dug locally, and only slightly purified before use.

Ancient Chinese and Japanese potters dug their materials from the earth
around their potteries. They had absolutely NO knowledge of chemistry,
except empirical. They experimented and used experience as the main
instructor. Considering that it took so long to fire a kiln, and so few
firings per year, it is a wonder that anyone managed to learn enough in any
reasonable amount of time to be of any good to any one! :o)

I dearly love this forum, and, as anyone can see, am not the least bit
bashful about participating in the discussions. This is an invaluable
resource for anyone who is connected in any way with ceramics. But I see
the same advice repeated again and again: "test, test, test. Your mileage
may vary."

Again, my point is that the materials are only part of the effect. The
potter is ultimately responsible for the craft.

In my "other job," I am a computer geek, designing conflict scenarios for
the military. When we have a simulation jam because of a "memory leak," I
look to the programmers. There is no such thing as a "memory leak." It is
sloppy coding and memory programming.

When the programmer fails to write code clearing memory registers before
starting a new action, the memory stays keyed with the previous action, and
the program eventually runs out of available memory. It is the same thing
as plugging the drain in your sink and allowing the faucet to drip.
Eventually, the sink will overflow. The programmers here hate me because I
point this out; they know it and don't like being caught out in their
laziness, and hate having to do the job over.

Back on topic: the tools and materials are my responsibility to use properly
in the practice of my craft. Good glaze won't cover bad form. Great tools
will not automatically guarantee great pots. Only skill and time can do
that.

Here endeth the rant...

Tig
in Springfield, VA, cobalt-green with envy at all those fortunate enough to
be at NCECA! Have a great time!

Edge Barnes on sat 15 mar 03

Following the thread on Bats, I recall making lots out of sink counter
cut-outs. I finally gave all but a few away and use the Creative Industries
plastic bats most of the time. They have the grid on the back, and if you
put down a thin cookie of clay on the wheel head and put grooves in it, it
will keep them from moving around when centering or lifting up when pulling
the clay up.

Considering the investment in time to make bats, good purchased ones are far
cheaper.

Edge
(not in San Diego)

Vince Pitelka on sat 15 mar 03

> Considering the investment in time to make bats, good purchased ones are
far
> cheaper.

Edge -
Actually, if you have access to a bandsaw, skill saw, drill press, and an
angle grinder with a sanding disk on it, you can crank out bats from 1/2"
Medex MDF high-density waterproof particle board, made by Sierra Pacific.
Even if you have to get the 4x8 sheets of Medex shipped to you, they will be
superior to and far less expensive than any decent commercially-made bats.
Medex is completely waterproof, so the finished bats do not have to be
varnished or otherwise coated, and they last forever. We made a big batch
of them about five years ago and they have been in heavy institutional use
ever since, often being left in the damp-box for prolongued periods. They
are still in perfect shape.

For complete instructions on how to make bats using the equipment mentioned
above, see my book.
- Vince

Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/

Brenda Anderson on wed 4 jun 03

Maybe some of you have already done this but I have found a cheap way to =
make bats. I bought a slightly damaged 4x8 sheet of Hardiplank for =
$10.00 (undamaged $22.00). It comes in smooth and textured. Either =
works ok.

I drew off 14x14" squares then my husband cut them out and rounded them =
off. Kind of a messy job but I got lots of bats. I then drilled the =
holes with a 3/8" mason bit. =20

My husband really wanted me to just buy the bats. Part of the fun of =
pottery is finding new ways of doing things!! I just get him involved =
in finding the new ways. =20

The clay works great on these as the hardiplank has a mixture of cement. =
They are not heavy though. They work for me; hope it works for you.

Brenda
Daughter of Clay

Arnolds Home Improvements on thu 5 jun 03

Brenda

If you want to make perfect round bats, wrap about three rounds of masking
tape around the outside of your wheel head. Then lay the already drilled
bats on the wheel head bat pins, take a router with a ball bearing trim bit
and run it around the wheel head, with the ball bearing riding on the
masking tape. The masking tape allows the bat to over hang the wheel head
just a little to make the bats easier to remove. I make all my own bats with
all kinds of material using this method.

Gene Arnold
mudduck@advi.net


I drew off 14x14" squares then my husband cut them out and rounded them off.
Kind of a messy job but I got lots of bats. I then drilled the holes with a
3/8" mason bit.

Jennifer F Boyer on thu 5 jun 03

http://www.coxlumber.com/siding__11.html

Above is a MSDS showing
Calcium Silicate (Hydrate)
Crystalline Silica (Quartz)
Cellulose

Sheet rock MSDS's show it's made of Calcium sulfate and varying
quantites of Crystalline Silica. So I guess there's more silica
in Hardibacker than in Sheet rock.
Jennifer, contemplating using some for bottom drying ware
boards....and deciding to seal the edges that I cut using a
respirator!



Klyf Brown wrote:
> Now it is my turn to be the fuddy duddy chicken little of the day.
> According to some of my concrete trade magazines these boards
> made of cement and some fiber are very dangerous to cut. Both saw
> cutting and score/break put stuff in the air that is extremely dangerous,
> worse than most the stuff we use. They also stated that only a full
> respirator, the kind with the moulded rubber and two canister filters,
> are the only kind that will filter the stuff. Ordinary cloth or paper filters
> let it right through, even the expensive kind that I use.
> So cut it outside and wear a full respirator, dust yourself off
> afterwards.
> OK. let the tirade against this post begin.
> Klyf Brown in New Mexico usa
>
> 6/4/03 3:08:58 PM, Brenda Anderson
> wrote:
>
>
>>Maybe some of you have already done this but I have found a
>
> cheap way to make bats. I bought a slightly damaged 4x8 sheet of
> Hardiplank for $10.00 (undamaged $22.00). It comes in smooth and
> textured. Either works ok.
>
>>I drew off 14x14" squares then my husband cut them out and
>
> rounded them off. Kind of a messy job but I got lots of bats. I then
> drilled the holes with a 3/8" mason bit.
>
>>My husband really wanted me to just buy the bats. Part of the fun
>
> of pottery is finding new ways of doing things!! I just get him involved
> in finding the new ways.
>
>>The clay works great on these as the hardiplank has a mixture of
>
> cement. They are not heavy though. They work for me; hope it
> works for you.
>
>>Brenda
>>Daughter of Clay
>>
>>___________________________________________________
>
> ___________________________
>
>>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>>
> Klyf Brown in New Mexico usa
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>


--
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer mailto:jboyer@adelphia.net
Thistle Hill Pottery Montpelier VT USA
http://www.thistlehillpottery.com/

Never pass on an email warning without checking out these sites
for web hoaxes and junk:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/
http://snopes.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Klyf Brown on thu 5 jun 03

Now it is my turn to be the fuddy duddy chicken little of the day.
According to some of my concrete trade magazines these boards
made of cement and some fiber are very dangerous to cut. Both saw
cutting and score/break put stuff in the air that is extremely dangerous,
worse than most the stuff we use. They also stated that only a full
respirator, the kind with the moulded rubber and two canister filters,
are the only kind that will filter the stuff. Ordinary cloth or paper filters
let it right through, even the expensive kind that I use.
So cut it outside and wear a full respirator, dust yourself off
afterwards.
OK. let the tirade against this post begin.
Klyf Brown in New Mexico usa

6/4/03 3:08:58 PM, Brenda Anderson
wrote:

>Maybe some of you have already done this but I have found a
cheap way to make bats. I bought a slightly damaged 4x8 sheet of
Hardiplank for $10.00 (undamaged $22.00). It comes in smooth and
textured. Either works ok.
>
>I drew off 14x14" squares then my husband cut them out and
rounded them off. Kind of a messy job but I got lots of bats. I then
drilled the holes with a 3/8" mason bit.
>
>My husband really wanted me to just buy the bats. Part of the fun
of pottery is finding new ways of doing things!! I just get him involved
in finding the new ways.
>
>The clay works great on these as the hardiplank has a mixture of
cement. They are not heavy though. They work for me; hope it
works for you.
>
>Brenda
>Daughter of Clay
>
>___________________________________________________
___________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Klyf Brown in New Mexico usa

Tony Olsen on fri 6 jun 03

Klyf,
Here's a link to the MSDS of Hardy Backer board. =20
http://www.jameshardie.com/backerboard/architect/hardibacker_msds_english=
.php#top

The hazardous part, as far as I see it, is the silica dust. When I cut =
the board, it is outside, 15-20 mph wind (about normal for here) and I'm =
wearing the same respirator I use in mixing glazes.
Tony (Galveston)
in short, here is the pertinent part:

Inhalation: If drilling, sanding, or cutting using abrasive =
methods, a NIOSH approved dust mask or respirator fitted with (N,R, or =
P) 100 filters are required.=20
Water should be used to suppress dust generation and a particulate =
respirator will be necessary if removal of dust using vacuum equipment =
is not possible.=20

Care should be taken to ensure that respirators are NIOSH approved =
and are fitted correctly according to manufacturers' instructions. Note =
that persons with facial hair will have difficulty in obtaining =
satisfactory face seal. For alternatives, consult the respirator =
manufacturer.
=20

Maurice Weitman on fri 6 jun 03

Wow! How cool. Thanks, Gene.

For a minute, I thought you were gonna say:

Lay the already drilled bats on the wheel head bat pins,
spin it like crazy while holding a pin tool where you want the cut.

Don't try that at home, kids.

Regards,
Maurice


At 9:30 PM -0400 on 6/5/03, Arnolds Home Improvements wrote:
>Brenda
>
>If you want to make perfect round bats, wrap about three rounds of masking
>tape around the outside of your wheel head. Then lay the already drilled
>bats on the wheel head bat pins, take a router with a ball bearing trim bit
>and run it around the wheel head, with the ball bearing riding on the
>masking tape. The masking tape allows the bat to over hang the wheel head
>just a little to make the bats easier to remove. I make all my own bats with
>all kinds of material using this method.
>
>Gene Arnold
>mudduck@advi.net

Snail Scott on fri 6 jun 03

At 10:19 PM 6/5/03 -0400, you wrote:
>...deciding to seal the edges that I cut using a
>respirator...


Wow - I would've used a saw! ;) -Snail

Jennifer F Boyer on fri 6 jun 03

OOPS! Silly me.
Anyway I did cut some boards out of a Hardy Board sheet (with a
circular saw )today and it was a bit of a mess. The dust really
flies when you cut this stuff and it's LOUD. I had on a
respirator, goggles and ear plugs. And the dust kept spitting
through the air holes on the side of the goggles. Call me a wimp
but I reverted to the more lo-tech approach: A utility knife and
a straight edge....couldn't use this approach for making bats tho..

I'm considering how to seal the edges to prevent silica dust.The
textured back of the hardy board looks like it wouldn't let duct
tape stick all that well. Taping is still an option but I
might try a couple of coats of polyurethane on the edges. Wudya
think?

Jennifer

Snail Scott wrote:
> At 10:19 PM 6/5/03 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>...deciding to seal the edges that I cut using a
>>respirator...
>
>
>
> Wow - I would've used a saw! ;) -Snail
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>


--
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer mailto:jboyer@adelphia.net
Thistle Hill Pottery Montpelier VT USA
http://www.thistlehillpottery.com/

Never pass on an email warning without checking out these sites
for web hoaxes and junk:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/
http://snopes.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

joe simone on sat 7 jun 03

I have been using Hardie plank bats now for more than 5 years.
Step 1: wet with a sponge.
Step 2: score the plank with a pointed tool( eg. screw driver) to =
obtain tiles of the desired size and snap off.
Step 3: immerse the tiles in water for 1/2 hour.=20
Step 4: cut them round using a sheet metal cutters after marking the =
circle with a pencil and a template eg. casserole lid.
The water logged material is the answer to dust and makes cutting =
easier. The edges of the bats dont have to be so perfect either.
Other cutting tools could be used=20
Joe Simone

ilene richardson on sat 15 jan 05

Hi everyone,

I've been working on building a table for my "Brent" wheel to be =
assembled onto/into. Its going very well and the oak wood I chose is too =
darn pretty. The coats of polyurethane varnish stuff are building up =
nicely and I think I'm on coat #4, working up to 5 coats which will be =
completed today. I received my parts from Continental Clay and am still =
waiting on the 14" wheel head and the motor which should arrive this =
coming week. I've saved three hundred dollars making it myself, haven't =
minded spending the time making it as its kind of meditative, was able =
to make it longer to accommodate more stuff on the table, like tools, =
bucket of water, and whatnot, and I purchased galvanized 1 1/2 inch =
pipe that screws into the flanges for the legs. Its going to be really =
nice. You're going to have to see it!

Question: I received a "Plasti-bat", one side is textured, one really =
smooth. Which one goes up for the clay to sit on? We are taking bets on =
this in my house, so it will be interesting what the answer is.=20


A good sunny day to work in my studio,
Ilene

Cheryl Weickert on sun 16 jan 05

Ilene, When I bought my first plasti-bat I asked the good people at
Continental Clay the same question. There were 2 people working at that
time and one said she used the smooth side to throw on, and the other said
that he used the textured side to throw on. Guess the choice is up to
you! I throw on the smooth side myself.

Pinky, in cold MN, 20 below zero and falling. minus 4 degrees felt warm
today, we must be getting use to the cold.

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:26:01 -0500, ilene richardson
wrote:

>
>Question: I received a "Plasti-bat", one side is textured, one really
smooth. Which one goes up for the clay to sit on? We are taking bets on
this in my house, so it will be interesting what the answer is.

Ann Testa on thu 13 jul 06

I have a number of plastic bats that my brother made
for me 25 years ago made out of Plexiglas. They
have served me well. They have not warped, the
holes have gotten a bit bigger & I now hold them
on with a "bat grabber". They were cheap & I
never dreamed that they would have lasted so long.

Ann Testa
_www.clayartgallery.com_ (http://www.clayartgallery.com)

Fred Parker on sun 5 nov 06

I've been using plastic bats (Creative Industries type) and generally like
them. Occasionally, I'll find one that seems to be slightly warped --
especially the round ones. I've cleaned the pins on the wheel as well as
the holes in the bat, but I still get a vertical wobble every time the
wheel turns. This is a problem later when I trim the pot because it makes
the bottom uneven.

After trying to live with this it occurred to me there are several other
kinds of bats out there, from masonite to plaster. Unfortunately, I have
no idea what the advantages/disadvantages of each type are.

Could someone describe the differences?

Many thanks,

Fred Parker

dalecochoy on sun 5 nov 06

Why not take the warped ones back to dealer. I've done that. I even had a
few that were varying thickness.
Take them back for exchange if not right.

Dale Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio


----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Parker"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 6:39 PM
Subject: Bats


> I've been using plastic bats (Creative Industries type) and generally like
> them. Occasionally, I'll find one that seems to be slightly warped --
> especially the round ones. I've cleaned the pins on the wheel as well as
> the holes in the bat, but I still get a vertical wobble every time the
> wheel turns. This is a problem later when I trim the pot because it makes
> the bottom uneven.
>
> After trying to live with this it occurred to me there are several other
> kinds of bats out there, from masonite to plaster. Unfortunately, I have
> no idea what the advantages/disadvantages of each type are.
>
> Could someone describe the differences?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Fred Parker

Timothy Joko-Veltman on sun 5 nov 06

On 11/5/06, Fred Parker wrote:
> I've been using plastic bats (Creative Industries type) and generally like
> them. Occasionally, I'll find one that seems to be slightly warped --
> especially the round ones. I've cleaned the pins on the wheel as well as
> the holes in the bat, but I still get a vertical wobble every time the
> wheel turns. This is a problem later when I trim the pot because it makes
> the bottom uneven.
>
> After trying to live with this it occurred to me there are several other
> kinds of bats out there, from masonite to plaster. Unfortunately, I have
> no idea what the advantages/disadvantages of each type are.
>
> Could someone describe the differences?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Fred Parker

Can't speak for others, but I use hardwood plywood bats. They work
well, they do have a bit a tendency to deteriorate with time -
especially if they are frequently washed, and then they will warp. We
do have a few chip-board bats, and a few with formica surfaces. I
would recommend neither of the latter - the formica doesn't hold the
clay well, and the chip-board bloats more or less permanently with
exposure to water.

I'll leave the others to talk about other kinds.

Tim

Hilltop Pottery on sun 5 nov 06

Fred

I use the creative bats and only had one warp and that was after I
stored it flat for an extended period of time. I bought some spray
adhesive and made a foam bat out of it, it is great for trimming. I
have bailey's wood bats which are a little pricier and heavier but they
are great, the wood absorbs the water well and due to the thickness I
have not, in 4 years had one warp yet. I also have a flat bat that is
black with no finger groove for lifting off the wheel and I find those
hard to remove. I have masonite as well and they are really nice but I
have found if you leave them wet too long, they lift and become bumpy.
I've never used plaster as I try to keep plaster out of my studio
(except for the wedging table). I use roofing felt alot as bats...a
little clay on the wheel and press the felt on and go...easy to pull off
and put another on very quickly.

Just my .02 on bats hope it helps some.

Nancy

WJ Seidl on sun 5 nov 06

Fred:
If you're happy with your plastic bats, there is no reason to change. You
are already familiar with how things dry on them, how they handle etc.
To fix the warpage, just get your trusty blow dryer out and heat them up,
one at a time. Get them good and hot, and wear gloves.
Then lay them on the wheelhead with a brick on them (or two or three) until
they cool. That should solve the warping, assuming your wheelhead is
flat.

Me, I prefer HardieBoard. Things just dry better on them, and I have no
trouble evening out the drying, since the HB absorbs the moisture, being
cement board. Works about the same as a plaster bat. It doesn't warp. Ever.
But they are a real PITA to cut.
I just bought a 4X8 sheet for about $18+tax at the Home Depot. That will
give me 32, 12 inch bats. I'm thinking of leaving these square, and just
knocking the corners off. A few minutes with a table or circular saw and I'm
done.
I'm sure other folk will tell you similar good things about what they
prefer, as well.
Best,
Wayne Seidl

-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Fred Parker
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 6:39 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Bats

I've been using plastic bats (Creative Industries type) and generally like
them. Occasionally, I'll find one that seems to be slightly warped --
especially the round ones. I've cleaned the pins on the wheel as well as
the holes in the bat, but I still get a vertical wobble every time the
wheel turns. This is a problem later when I trim the pot because it makes
the bottom uneven.

After trying to live with this it occurred to me there are several other
kinds of bats out there, from masonite to plaster. Unfortunately, I have
no idea what the advantages/disadvantages of each type are.

Could someone describe the differences?

Many thanks,

Fred Parker

____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org

You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/

Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.

Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on sun 5 nov 06

On Nov 5, 2006, at 6:39 PM, Fred Parker wrote:
> ...After trying to live with this it occurred to me there are
> several other
> kinds of bats out there, from masonite to plaster. Unfortunately,
> I have
> no idea what the advantages/disadvantages of each type are.
>
> Could someone describe the differences?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Fred Parker

Fred,
I always recommend plaster bats. Your work will dry evenly--the floor
at the same rate as the wall/rim, and the piece will pop off the bat
when it's ready to trim. Much easier!

Lynn




Lynn Goodman
Fine Porcelain Pottery
Cell 347-526-9805
www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com

Elizabeth Priddy on sun 5 nov 06

After trying to live with this it occurred to me there
are several
other
kinds of bats out there, from masonite to plaster.
Unfortunately, I
have
no idea what the advantages/disadvantages of each type
are.

_____________________________

Hi Fred,

Pros and cons of each as I have used them in studios:

masonite
P cheap, easy to make, resist warping pretty well
C can delaminate and peel off and flake bits into
your pots, sensitive to scraping tools, if left
outside in rain (happens!) it will destroy them

Plasti-bats
P fairly indestructible, do not warp unless serious
heat (like leaving on a kiln-also happens!), can be
used to make a tile bat system, easy to tool
C expensive, but last forever, so relative con

Old kitchen counter tops cut into bats
P free, good surface to throw on
C particle board bottoms flake off and into your clay

Plastic formed bats with the waffle looking backs
P comes in easy to stack and board squares
C warps if you look at it wrong

Tile-bat system
P can store 100 bats underneath your wheel, dries
pots so evenly that you can not trim, tiles stack
and board well because they are square, cheap,
will "hold" your mug for you when it is still stuck
to it while you put the handle on, can be used as
visual guage for making similar sized pieces
C tiles are made of clay and will crack if handled
too roughly, you have to train your hand not to
drag as you throw as it is abrasive, heavy-makes
ware boards heavier to move and store on ware cart

tar paper bats
P cheap, any size or shape, peels off leaving
acceptable bottom with no trimming, can store 100
in a zip loc baggie so good for potters on the go,
water resistant, easy to attach with a smear of
clay, can be bent out of the way to put handle on,
very light weight
C flimsy-still need to be careful moving pot even
though it is on a bat, very abrasive to sides of
hands andfinger tips, need to be replaced fairly
frequently compared to plasti-bats or tile, doesn't
work well for large forms as a bat because it still
has to be dragged onto a board instead of lifted and
that can require removing splashpan-only really a
problem for plates

Plaster bats
P makes drying easy and even
C plaster bits and chips everywhere, nicks both get
in your clay and show in the bottoms of the work,
not easy to repair, relatively easy to break, heavy,
takes large amounts of storage space, eaasy to nick
scar and chip with any tools (kind of like a teflon
pan, you have to be careful about using metal tools
around them)

Personally, I have an excellent tile-bat system in
small/med/lg, a few large plasti-bats for large forms,
about a hundred tarpaper bats for working at the art
center where I teach, and I use all of them depending
on what I need in a bat at the moment. I will
probably make a few plaster bats for the series I am
working on next for the drying aspect, but I won't use
them in everyday stuff.

All bats are good for some things and bad for others.
The perfect bat does not exist. But I hope the above
can help you determine which ones you need in
quantity.



E


Elizabeth Priddy

Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com



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Jim Brooks on mon 6 nov 06

i thought that Creative Industries guaranteed their bats not to warp?
Anyone have a comment on that.? Oh i have several of their bats that are warped
beyond belief.
Jim in Denton

Carole Fox on mon 6 nov 06

On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 18:39:26 -0500, Fred Parker
wrote:

>I've been using plastic bats (Creative Industries type) and generally like
>them. Occasionally, I'll find one that seems to be slightly warped --
>especially the round ones.

Fred - I used to like the CI bats, until I discovered that using a heat
gun on a piece being worked on one of these bats causes it to warp
significantly. I had several of the small square ones that warped and it
took me a while to figure out that the heat gun was causing the problem.
I have not had the warpage problem with Plastibats, so have been using
them instead. However, the holes in the Plastibats do tend to enlarge
over time. I normally use them with a Bat Grabber. (Yes, I know they're
not currently available).

Carole Fox
Dayton, OH

sacredclay on mon 6 nov 06

masonite gives the benifits of letting your piece dry off faster,
since it absorbs water.You then used the other side to minimize
excessive warpage. Eventually, it will warp and you can use it to
just transport the piece. When scraping clay off, sometimes some
pieces of masonite will come off.either you catch it or you don't.
I'm a little leery of using plaster, aas if any pieces chipped off,
it'll get into your clay. Kathryn in Nc --- In
clayart@yahoogroups.com, dalecochoy wrote:
>
> Why not take the warped ones back to dealer. I've done that. I even
had a
> few that were varying thickness.
> Take them back for exchange if not right.
>
> Dale Cochoy
> Wild Things Bonsai Studio
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred Parker"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 6:39 PM
> Subject: Bats
>
>
> > I've been using plastic bats (Creative Industries type) and
generally like
> > them. Occasionally, I'll find one that seems to be slightly
warped --
> > especially the round ones. I've cleaned the pins on the wheel as
well as
> > the holes in the bat, but I still get a vertical wobble every
time the
> > wheel turns. This is a problem later when I trim the pot because
it makes
> > the bottom uneven.
> >
> > After trying to live with this it occurred to me there are
several other
> > kinds of bats out there, from masonite to plaster.
Unfortunately, I have
> > no idea what the advantages/disadvantages of each type are.
> >
> > Could someone describe the differences?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > Fred Parker
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@...
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@...
>

Jennifer Boyer on mon 6 nov 06

I've never used a heat gun and never had any warpage in my 15 year
old CI bats.

Folks should remember that bat pins wear out. When they do the bats
become loose. You may think that your bat holes are enlarged, but a
new set of bat pins fixes the problem..
Jennifer, in sunny VT

On Nov 6, 2006, at 8:46 AM, Carole Fox wrote:

> On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 18:39:26 -0500, Fred Parker
> wrote:
>
>> I've been using plastic bats (Creative Industries type) and
>> generally like
>> them. Occasionally, I'll find one that seems to be slightly
>> warped --
>> especially the round ones.
>
> Fred - I used to like the CI bats, until I discovered that using a
> heat
> gun on a piece being worked on one of these bats causes it to warp
> significantly. I had several of the small square ones that warped
> and it
> took me a while to figure out that the heat gun was causing the
> problem.
> I have not had the warpage problem with Plastibats, so have been using
> them instead. However, the holes in the Plastibats do tend to enlarge
> over time. I normally use them with a Bat Grabber. (Yes, I know
> they're
> not currently available).
>
> Carole Fox
> Dayton, OH

Jennifer Boyer
http://www.vtpots.com
jennifer@vtpots.com
Montpelier. Vermont

Lee Burningham on mon 6 nov 06

Howdy,

Did you leave your bats in the sun or directly over a heat source? I use
literally a hundred of those plastic bats you are complaining about in a
school situation where they get used and abused daily by kids with total
disregard to proper care and storage. I have yet to have a single warped
bat in the past ive or six years when I started using them.

Lee Burningham


i thought that Creative Industries guaranteed their bats not to warp?
Anyone have a comment on that.? Oh i have several of their bats that
are warped
beyond belief.
Jim in Denton

Bonnie Staffel on mon 6 nov 06

I am a strong proponent of using Masonite bats. I have had mine about =
40
years and they are still working very well. I would describe the =
various
bats in this way: plastic - no absorption; Masonite - some absorption; =
and
plaster - great absorption. =20

When I used plastic bats at a friend's studio, I wound up with S cracks. =
I
never have S cracks with the Masonite, and I would not have plaster bats =
in
my studio from particles getting into the clay and causing havoc after a =
pot
is bisque fired. I oil my Masonite bats with motor oil which is =
absorbed
into the bat and gives a good release while still maintaining its
absorbency. When they start to look light gray, it is time to treat =
them
again with the oil. I just smear a dollop on a bat, rub it around with =
an
old rag, place it into a garbage bag and pile the subsequent bats with =
the
same amount of oil on top of each other. Overnight they are all =
absorbed
with no oil being physically on the bat. This method has worked for me =
for
a long, long time. =20

I do not use bat pins but throw a thick doughnut on the wheel head and =
just
place the bats on the clay. I keep the doughnut covered with a damp =
cloth
and plastic for overnight storage, ready to use the next day. I see no
reason to have bat pins unless you work with pots that you have to =
return it
to the wheel for further adjustments. I still can do this with a little
manipulation of the bat until it is centered again, if necessary. =20

It has been so long since we made these bats, but the closest I can come =
to
the type of Masonite we purchased in 4 X 8 sheets was either marine or
exterior Masonite. I also bought the 1/4" board. For my very large 18"
bats, we glued two bats together for stability. =20

I have seen ads in Ceramic magazine selling all sizes of Masonite bats =
if
you don't have the means to have them cut yourself. With careful
measurements, you can get a good supply of various diameter bats out of =
one
sheet. =20

Hope this helps you make a wise decision.

Bonnie Staffel. =20



http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council

Snail Scott on mon 6 nov 06

At 02:40 AM 11/6/2006 EST, you wrote:
>i thought that Creative Industries guaranteed their bats not to warp?
>Anyone have a comment on that.? Oh i have several of their bats that
are warped
>beyond belief.


A guarantee should never be taken as evidence
that something won't happen. That's not its
purpose. It's a statement by a manufacturer
of what they will do to stand behind the
product IF it does happen. A guarantee without
recourse offered is just an advertisement.

Never done business with Creative Industries;
no opinion on their bats or their guarantees.
Just a basic concept.

-Snail

Bruce Girrell on mon 6 nov 06

Fred Parker wrote:

> After trying to live with this it occurred to me there are several other
> kinds of bats out there, from masonite to plaster. Unfortunately, I have
> no idea what the advantages/disadvantages of each type are.

Well, no one has addressed the plaster bats yet, so I guess I'll give it a
go.

We have been using plaster bats for about 8 years now. We have a stack of
plastic bats but almost never use them except for special purposes, for
example, when I want to hang a pot upside down from a bat and be sure that
it won't come off.

The primary advantage of plaster bats is their ability to help the bottom of
the pot dry much more quickly and uniformly compared to a pot left on a
nonporous bat. Yesterday I threw 16 mugs (no poking fun here - I'm not a
production potter). I finished about 3:00 PM. By 9:00 I had all of the mugs
popped off of the bats. The mugs were uniformly dry and I could have put the
handles on, had I wanted to.

Another advantage is that the bottom of the pot can be thrown to exactly the
thickness that you want, since there is no danger of the cutoff wire
drifting and cutting the bottom of the pot too thin. The thinner bottom and
more uniform drying lead to fewer bottom cracks. It is very rare that we see
a bottom crack.

Plaster bats have their own idiosyncrasies, but it doesn't take much to get
used to them. When I first started using them I found that my hand wanted to
stick to the bat during centering. This problem disappeared very quickly.
The edges can chip, but that doesn't affect their usability. We have never
gotten any plaster chips in our ware. Also, plaster bats are heavy and take
up more space than many other bats.

We have tried Hydrostone bats and, while they work the same as plaster (and
are thinner and lighter), we find that the pin holes are too loose right
even when new. We have not tried bats made from absorbent concrete products
but I suspect that these "backer board" bats may also be fairly effective.

Just my opinion

Bruce Girrell

dwichman@frontiernet.net on mon 6 nov 06

I use the plastic bats too, and found that you can use them upside
down if they have that wobble when right side up. The smooth surface
on the back is just as useable as the slight texture on the front.
Recently I purchased some new blue bats from Midsouth Ceramics and
they have the same texture on both sides.

Debi Wichman
Cookeville, TN
http://www.elementterra.com

Deborah Grant on mon 6 nov 06

I'd like to put in my 2 cents on the bat discussion. First of all, I have 2
wheels, A Randall with a drop head and a Brent. I do most of my throwing on
the Randall and most of my trimming on the Brent.
I've had the Randall since 1960 and got a bat mold with it. Made all my own
plaster bats and, frankly prefer them. In the beginning I didn't cut pots
off them but waited until they could pop off by themselves but haven't done
that in years. I like to get the pots off the wheel as soon as possible and
set them on newspaper which is very effective in pulling the water out of
the bottom. When I first got the Brent wheel I used plastic bats but found
they warped, especially if you put the pot under an infra red light for
drying. So I graduated to hard board. I even have a very large home made one
made out of plywood for throwing large platters. My favorites are still the
plaster bats which I simply drop into the wheel head. No bat pins needed.

Debby Grant


>From: Bruce Girrell
>Reply-To: Clayart
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: Bats
>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 11:42:10 -0500
>
>Fred Parker wrote:
>
> > After trying to live with this it occurred to me there are several other
> > kinds of bats out there, from masonite to plaster. Unfortunately, I
>have
> > no idea what the advantages/disadvantages of each type are.
>
>Well, no one has addressed the plaster bats yet, so I guess I'll give it a
>go.
>
>We have been using plaster bats for about 8 years now. We have a stack of
>plastic bats but almost never use them except for special purposes, for
>example, when I want to hang a pot upside down from a bat and be sure that
>it won't come off.
>
>The primary advantage of plaster bats is their ability to help the bottom
>of
>the pot dry much more quickly and uniformly compared to a pot left on a
>nonporous bat. Yesterday I threw 16 mugs (no poking fun here - I'm not a
>production potter). I finished about 3:00 PM. By 9:00 I had all of the mugs
>popped off of the bats. The mugs were uniformly dry and I could have put
>the
>handles on, had I wanted to.
>
>Another advantage is that the bottom of the pot can be thrown to exactly
>the
>thickness that you want, since there is no danger of the cutoff wire
>drifting and cutting the bottom of the pot too thin. The thinner bottom and
>more uniform drying lead to fewer bottom cracks. It is very rare that we
>see
>a bottom crack.
>
>Plaster bats have their own idiosyncrasies, but it doesn't take much to get
>used to them. When I first started using them I found that my hand wanted
>to
>stick to the bat during centering. This problem disappeared very quickly.
>The edges can chip, but that doesn't affect their usability. We have never
>gotten any plaster chips in our ware. Also, plaster bats are heavy and take
>up more space than many other bats.
>
>We have tried Hydrostone bats and, while they work the same as plaster (and
>are thinner and lighter), we find that the pin holes are too loose right
>even when new. We have not tried bats made from absorbent concrete products
>but I suspect that these "backer board" bats may also be fairly effective.
>
>Just my opinion
>
>Bruce Girrell
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.

_________________________________________________________________
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Vince Pitelka on mon 6 nov 06

My November 2004 and January 2005 "Tool Times" columns in Clay Times were
all about the various kinds of bats available. Obviously from this
discussion so far, there are people who love almost every kind of bat. Here
are a few of my own observations.

Personally, I don't like plaster bats, because I don't want the bat
absorbing moisture. The absorbency of plaster varies dramatically depending
on how it was cast, how dry it is, and how old it is. I don't want to deal
with that variability.

I find that the 1/4" plastic bats are too flexible and too slick. I don't
like the way the clay sticks to them.

The Creative Industries plastic bats have a rougher surface that accepts the
clay nicely, but I don't like that ridged back side. Even with bat pins, I
like to stick the bat down with some balls of clay, so that there will be no
wobble, and it won't lift off the wheel during a hard pull on a large pot.
You have to use pretty big wads of clay to stick those CI bats down to the
wheelhead. Otherwise they are nice bats.

Masonite bats are too flexible, and Masonite breaks down eventually, unless
you get the rare double-tempered variety such as you find in clipboards.

About ten years ago at the Craft Center we made a big batch of bats from
3/4" marine plywood, and sealed them on all surfaces with polyurethane.
They have held up extremely well in hard institutional use with no further
maintenance, but 3/4" plywood is thick and clunky.

The very best bats in my opinion are made from 5/8" Medex, a waterproof MDF
(medium-density fiberboard) made by Sierra Pine International. It is used
for outdoor advertising signs and other applications out in the weather. It
does not have to be finished at all, and it lasts forever. We made a large
quantity of Medex bats about eight years ago, and despite heavy
institutional use they are all still in perfect condition. In my book there
are complete instructions on how to make your own plywood or MDF bats so
that they turn out as good as or better than the commercially-made bats.

Medex is available from large building materials suppliers in big cities, or
from specialty businesses that sell sign supplies. A few of the commercial
suppliers are now selling Medex bats, but some of them are only 3/8" thick,
and that's too thin. Better to make your own from 5/8" Medex.

It is important to clarify the distinction between "fiberboard" and
"particleboard." The latter is the cheap stuff used as floor underlayment,
and as the interior core in cheap Formica contertops. Plain particleboard
does not stand up well in use as studio bats, even if sealed with urethane.
MDF, or medium-density fiberboard, is much denser, and if you get Medex
waterproof MDF, the bats will last indefinitely.

Some people like to use the formica laminated particle-board sink cut-outs
available from cabinet shops. The formica is the clay-contact surface, and
if the sides and bottom are well sealed with urethane they seem to hold up
well, but I find the formica too slick, and I just do not like
particleboard.
- Vince

Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/

Jim Brooks on mon 6 nov 06

Snail. i sent Creative Industries an email about the bats. (some time ago)
.. asking how to get them replaced.. since they were "guaranteed"., Of
Course, there wasn't an answer.!!! And of course we all know it isn't worth
much anyway. as you say "No recourse". Jim in Denton

Chris Trabka on tue 7 nov 06

I've tried a number of different materials for the bats. I have been using
melamine which is a plastic coated partical board for quite some time.
There are two sizes of bats that I use small and large. The small ones are
9.5 inches square. The large ones are almost round (a 32 sided regular
polygon) and are about 18 inches in diameter. Both have two holes drilled
in one side to fit over the pins in my wheel head. When I use the melamine
bats I use small wads of clay between the bat and the wheel head. The clay
serves two purposes 1) it creates a space so the bat is easy to get off the
wheel with a stiff putty knife/screw driver 2) it allows the bat to stick
to the wheel (so I can pull the clay up) - the plastic bats want to come
loose on me when I try to pull a significant amount of clay up. A 4'x8'
sheet of melamine costs about $30 (less than a $1.00 per bat for the small
bats). A set of 40 bats last me about 10 years before they need retiring (I
wear through the plastic).

Chris

Carole Fox on tue 7 nov 06

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 09:22:13 -0500, Jennifer Boyer
wrote:

>You may think that your bat holes are enlarged, but a
>new set of bat pins fixes the problem.

The holes on Plastibats definitely get larger over time. I've used old
Plastibats with brand new pins and the holes are still loose. I can't
imagine that stainless steel pin heads would wear down faster than the
plastic!

Carole Fox
Dayton, OH

Jennifer Boyer on tue 7 nov 06

I used to use Plasitbats and can imagine that the holes may enlarge
since the plastic is soft, but my experience with replacing bat pins
comes from using Creative Industries bats which use a much more rigid
plastic. I can't imagine their bat pin holes enlarging. All I know is
that when I'm starting to get loosey goosey bats, I install new bat
pins and all is well...I do it about once a year or so.
Jennifer

On Nov 7, 2006, at 9:18 AM, Carole Fox wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 09:22:13 -0500, Jennifer Boyer
>
> wrote:
>
>> You may think that your bat holes are enlarged, but a
>> new set of bat pins fixes the problem.
>
> The holes on Plastibats definitely get larger over time. I've used
> old
> Plastibats with brand new pins and the holes are still loose. I can't
> imagine that stainless steel pin heads would wear down faster than the
> plastic!
>
> Carole Fox
> Dayton, OH
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>

Jennifer Boyer
http://www.vtpots.com
jennifer@vtpots.com
Montpelier. Vermont

Randall Moody on tue 7 nov 06

I have also used rubber "O" rings on the pins if they get loose.

On 11/7/06, Jennifer Boyer wrote:
>
> I used to use Plasitbats and can imagine that the holes may enlarge
> since the plastic is soft, but my experience with replacing bat pins
> comes from using Creative Industries bats which use a much more rigid
> plastic. I can't imagine their bat pin holes enlarging. All I know is
> that when I'm starting to get loosey goosey bats, I install new bat
> pins and all is well...I do it about once a year or so.
> Jennifer
>
> On Nov 7, 2006, at 9:18 AM, Carole Fox wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 09:22:13 -0500, Jennifer Boyer
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> You may think that your bat holes are enlarged, but a
> >> new set of bat pins fixes the problem.
> >
> > The holes on Plastibats definitely get larger over time. I've used
> > old
> > Plastibats with brand new pins and the holes are still loose. I can't
> > imagine that stainless steel pin heads would wear down faster than the
> > plastic!
> >
> > Carole Fox
> > Dayton, OH
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > ________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
> Jennifer Boyer
> http://www.vtpots.com
> jennifer@vtpots.com
> Montpelier. Vermont
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>

Sarah Ferrency on wed 8 nov 06

I made my own hydrostone bats in disposable plant drip trays, and they're
*fantastic*. No bat pin holes- I smear a small ball of wet clay on the wheel
head, wet it a little more, and stick the bat on. I really love the way ware
dries on them, and that I can throw the bottoms thin and trim little to not
at all- it really cuts down on the trim time.

The trays I used made radial grooves from the ridges to raise the plant
pots, so there are places to stick a tool under and pop the bat off.
Hydrostone absorbs well and is stronger than pottery plaster #1, and is
pretty cheap- I think it was $14 for the 50-lb bag and I spent another $12
or so on the drip trays. If I hadn't screwed up mixing the first batch (yes,
there is human error in every endeavor) I'd have had 10 large bats. You can
use metal tools on it. It is still heavy and the bats can be a little
thinner than regular plaster but not too much or you lose the absorbancy, I
discovered. Though my basement studio is kind of one big damp box, so my
experience might be wetter than most.

I am looking to add a tile system to my set up, since it seems silly to
throw mugs and small bowls on 14" plaster bats! I also tried making some out
of Corian sink cutouts, and that was a serious PITA and they're too slick,
but I bet they will last forever.

Sarah in Sitka
Nothing witty to say this time

David Woof on fri 10 nov 06

Hi Fred, my experience; the rocking plastic bats are due to the hole bosses
on the underside being a tad too high so the bat rocks on these points.
remove material until flush. Or the bat pin galley is not deep enough for
the pin heads, and the pin holds the bat up off the wheel head. carefully
and with precision drill out the pin hole thru to the top side of bat.
slightly bevel top of hole so it doesn't catch your hands. Watch also for
even a slight build up of clay crud on bat pin heads and pin holes on wheel
head. This has cured the few I've encountered.

Added bonus, the holes being completely thru the bat make it easier to
visually locate the pins for attaching the bat.



David
_________________________________
_________________________________
David Woof Studio
Clarkdale, Arizona
Ph. 928-821-3747 Fax. 866-881-3461
________________________________
________________________________
peering over the edge, reverently taking an irreverent look at everything.

_________________________________________________________________
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Bill Merrill on sun 25 may 08

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From what is being posted on Clayart most people are looking for =
materials to make bats from other than plaster. I have used plaster =
bats that fit into a wheel head and it is centered. The advantage using =
plaster is that the plaster removes water from the foot of the pot. =
This way you will have a pot that has a leather hard consistency from =
foot to lip. It makes it easy to trim a pitcher for example since the =
pot is already centered. You can trim the lower wall towards the bottom =
of the pot and then, using a thin spatula go under the base and pop of =
the pitcher. Randall wheels used this system. Randal wheels are not =
made anymore, but the bucket heads and bat molds are. You can adapt the =
bucket head to any wheel. I am going to buy a new Soldner wheel and =
Bluebird said they can taper the shaft so any of the bucket or flat =
heads can merely lift off. I use 8", 12", 16 and 20 inch plaster bats. =
For platters over 30" I adapt a piece of plywood to an 18" flat head. =
If you are making large porcelain forms , plaster really helps the =
bottoms from cracking. If you make plaster anything, remember the =
water/plaster ratios. For every 80 cubic inches of plaster you need use =
1 quart of water and 2 =BE pounds of plaster. I sometimes use 3 pounds =
of plaster. Don't forget to slowly add the plaster to the water and let =
it set several minutes before stiring. I pour the plaster when I can =
drag my finger across the plaster and it barely holds a peak like =
whipped cream. If you pour it when it's still thin, it can seep through =
thin cracks or under your bat molds. I place my bat molds on Plexiglas, =
so the top of the bat is smooth and has a glass like surface.

=20

=20

Randall Wheel

49 Ramsey Park

Rochester, NY=20

14610

=20

585-288-0982 fax

=20

Jepson Pottery lists aluminum bat molds for sale on the net.

=20


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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From
what is being posted on Clayart most people are looking for materials to =
make
bats from other than plaster.=A0 I have used plaster bats that fit into =
a wheel
head and it is centered.=A0 The advantage using plaster is that the =
plaster
removes water from the foot of the pot.=A0 This way you will have a pot =
that has
a leather hard consistency from foot to lip.=A0 It makes it easy to trim =
a
pitcher for example since the pot is already centered.=A0 You can trim =
the lower
wall towards the bottom of the pot and then, using a thin spatula go =
under the
base and pop of the pitcher.=A0 Randall wheels used this system.=A0 =
Randal wheels
are not made anymore, but the bucket heads and bat molds are.=A0 You can =
adapt
the bucket head to any wheel.=A0 I am going to buy a new Soldner wheel =
and
Bluebird said they can taper the shaft so any of the bucket or flat =
heads can
merely lift off.=A0 I use 8”, 12”, 16 and 20 inch plaster =
bats.=A0 For platters
over 30” I adapt a piece of plywood to an 18” flat head.=A0 =
If you
are making large porcelain forms , plaster really helps the bottoms from
cracking.=A0 If you make plaster anything, remember the water/plaster =
ratios.=A0
For every 80 cubic inches of plaster you need use 1 quart of water and 2 =
=BE pounds
of plaster.=A0 I sometimes use 3 pounds of plaster.=A0 Don’t =
forget to slowly
add the plaster to the water and let it set several minutes before =
stiring.=A0 I
pour the plaster when I can drag my finger across the plaster and it =
barely
holds a peak like whipped cream.=A0 If you pour it when it’s still =
thin, it
can seep through thin cracks or under your bat molds.=A0 I place my bat =
molds on Plexiglas,
so the top of the bat is smooth and has a glass like =
surface.

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Randall
Wheel

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>49
Ramsey Park

size=3D2
face=3DArial>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Rochestersize=3D2>, w:st=3D"on">NYsize=3D2>

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>14610

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>585-288-0982
fax

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Jepson
Pottery=A0 lists aluminum bat molds for sale on the =
net.

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C8BE95.22816572--

John Rodgers on sun 25 may 08

I'm still using the same plaster bas that I made 10 years ago. They are
not for the Randal system, but I think plaster bats are the greatest.
self centering when placed on the wheel, the pots self release when
sufficient moisture is extracted from clay by the plaster, beautiful
flat bottoms on the pots. Plaster bats are terrific..

John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL

Bill Merrill wrote:
>
> From what is being posted on Clayart most people are looking for
> materials to make bats from other than plaster. I have used plaster
> bats that fit into a wheel head and it is centered. The advantage
> using plaster is that the plaster removes water from the foot of the
> pot. This way you will have a pot that has a leather hard consistency
> from foot to lip. It makes it easy to trim a pitcher for example since
> the pot is already centered. You can trim the lower wall towards the
> bottom of the pot and then, using a thin spatula go under the base and
> pop of the pitcher. Randall wheels used this system. Randal wheels are
> not made anymore, but the bucket heads and bat molds are. You can
> adapt the bucket head to any wheel. I am going to buy a new Soldner
> wheel and Bluebird said they can taper the shaft so any of the bucket
> or flat heads can merely lift off. I use 8", 12", 16 and 20 inch
> plaster bats. For platters over 30" I adapt a piece of plywood to an
> 18" flat head. If you are making large porcelain forms , plaster
> really helps the bottoms from cracking. If you make plaster anything,
> remember the water/plaster ratios. For every 80 cubic inches of
> plaster you need use 1 quart of water and 2 ¾ pounds of plaster. I
> sometimes use 3 pounds of plaster. Don't forget to slowly add the
> plaster to the water and let it set several minutes before stiring. I
> pour the plaster when I can drag my finger across the plaster and it
> barely holds a peak like whipped cream. If you pour it when it's still
> thin, it can seep through thin cracks or under your bat molds. I place
> my bat molds on Plexiglas, so the top of the bat is smooth and has a
> glass like surface.
>
> Randall Wheel
>
> 49 Ramsey Park
>
> Rochester, NY
>
> 14610
>
> 585-288-0982 fax
>
> Jepson Pottery lists aluminum bat molds for sale on the net.
>

Eric Hansen on mon 26 may 08

Or you can make plaster bats 1" thick to fit any wheelhead, any diameter. They will stick to unpinned wheelheads with clay as well.
H A N S E N


--- On Sun, 5/25/08, Bill Merrill wrote:

> From: Bill Merrill
> Subject: [CLAYART] bats
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Sunday, May 25, 2008, 6:28 PM
> From what is being posted on Clayart most people are looking
> for materials to make bats from other than plaster. I have

pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on wed 28 may 08

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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Rog,=20



If you have fairly stong Sunlight where you are...rather than trying to =
put the warped "medex" Bats 'through the Planer' ( which would not help =
you, unless you put them across the Jointer first anyway... to surface =
one side 'flat' first, ) you could just wet them well on both sides, =
and, set them into the direct Sunshine for a day, and, if necessary, =
repeat again the next day, turning now and then if the mood strikes.



That would straighten them.




Oh, 'Montrose' - I got my 'bike there in 1989 or '88...

A nice gal named Olivera Flurry had it...

The 'bike had been her husbands - they both used to ride - and it had =
sat dusty in the Barn since 1962.

She had a '37 Studebaker Sedan in the front yard, just sitting...too, =
but I forget what part of Town she was in.

Good memories...



Phil
l v
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Rog Coman=20



I purchased 2 - 4'X8' sheets of 5/8" MEDX from a local lumber yard. =
About $96.00, includeding shipping. My buddy, who has a great =
woodworking shop, set up a jig on his band saw and we made about 15 - =
12" round bats, and about 24 - 9X 9" square bats. Set us a jig on the =
drill press, and drilled the bat pin holes. They work great. The only =
problem I have experienced is a slight bit of warpage on 6 of them - but =
I fault myself cause I left some pretty wet pots on them overnight =
(covered). I am going to run them through the planer and get them flat =
again. I am most pleased with them. Oh yes, with the 2nd sheet of =
MEDEX we made about 32 - 12" bats for a potter friend, and she loves =
them. By the way, the 4X8 sheeets are cut a bit big to account for the =
saw kerf so you really do get 32 - 12" bats.

Rog Coman,
Fish Hook Pottery,
Montrose, CO
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



charset=3Diso-8859-1">

Hi Rog,

 

 

 

If you have fairly stong Sunlight where =
you=20
are...rather than trying to put the warped "medex" Bats 'through the =
Planer' (=20
which would not help you, unless you put them across the Jointer first =
anyway...=20
to surface one side 'flat' first, ) you could just wet them well on both =
sides,=20
and, set them into the direct Sunshine for a day, and, if necessary, =
repeat=20
again the next day, turning now and then if the mood =
strikes.

 

 

 

That would straighten =
them.

 

 

 

 

Oh, 'Montrose' - I got my 'bike there =
in 1989 or=20
'88...

 

A nice gal named Olivera Flurry had=20
it...

 

The 'bike had been her husbands  - =
they both=20
used to ride - and it had sat dusty in the Barn since 1962.

 

She had a '37 Studebaker Sedan in the =
front yard,=20
just sitting...too, but I forget what part of Town she was =
in.

 

Good memories...

 

 

 

Phil

l v

style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black">From:=20
href=3D"mailto:fishhookpottery@BRESNAN.NET">Rog Coman

 

I purchased 2 -  4'X8' sheets of =

5/8" MEDX from a local lumber yard. About $96.00, =
includeding=20
shipping. My buddy, who has a great woodworking shop, set up a =
jig on his=20
band saw and we made about 15 - 12" round bats, and about 24 - 9X 9" =
square=20
bats.  Set us a jig on the drill press, and drilled the bat pin=20
holes.  They work great.  The only problem I have =
experienced is a=20
slight bit of warpage on 6 of them - but I fault myself cause I left =
some=20
pretty wet pots on them overnight (covered).  I am going to run =
them=20
through the planer and get them flat again.  I am most pleased =
with=20
them.  Oh yes, with the 2nd sheet of MEDEX we made about 32 - 12" =
bats=20
for a potter friend, and she loves them.  By the way, the 4X8 =
sheeets are=20
cut a bit big to account for the saw kerf so you really do get 32 - =
12"=20
bats.

 

Rog Coman,

Fish Hook Pottery,

Montrose,=20
CO

------=_NextPart_000_010D_01C8C110.1A2EA080--

Rog Coman on wed 28 may 08

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I purchased 2 - 4'X8' sheets of 5/8" MEDX from a local lumber yard. =
About $96.00, includeding shipping. My buddy, who has a great =
woodworking shop, set up a jig on his band saw and we made about 15 - =
12" round bats, and about 24 - 9X 9" square bats. Set us a jig on the =
drill press, and drilled the bat pin holes. They work great. The only =
problem I have experienced is a slight bit of warpage on 6 of them - but =
I fault myself cause I left some pretty wet pots on them overnight =
(covered). I am going to run them through the planer and get them flat =
again. I am most pleased with them. Oh yes, with the 2nd sheet of =
MEDEX we made about 32 - 12" bats for a potter friend, and she loves =
them. By the way, the 4X8 sheeets are cut a bit big to account for the =
saw kerf so you really do get 32 - 12" bats.

Rog Coman,
Fish Hook Pottery,
Montrose, CO
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C8C0F0.881C01C0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">

I purchased 2 -  4'X8' sheets of=20
5/8" MEDX from a local lumber yard. About $96.00, includeding=20
shipping. My buddy, who has a great woodworking shop, set up a jig =
on his=20
band saw and we made about 15 - 12" round bats, and about 24 - 9X 9" =
square=20
bats.  Set us a jig on the drill press, and drilled the bat pin=20
holes.  They work great.  The only problem I have experienced =
is a=20
slight bit of warpage on 6 of them - but I fault myself cause I left =
some pretty=20
wet pots on them overnight (covered).  I am going to run them =
through the=20
planer and get them flat again.  I am most pleased with them.  =
Oh yes,=20
with the 2nd sheet of MEDEX we made about 32 - 12" bats for a potter =
friend, and=20
she loves them.  By the way, the 4X8 sheeets are cut a bit big to =
account=20
for the saw kerf so you really do get 32 - 12" bats.

 

Rog Coman,

Fish Hook Pottery,

Montrose, CO

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C8C0F0.881C01C0--

Taylor Hendrix on thu 29 may 08

So, about $1.35 a bat give or take, huh? How does that stack up to
store bought bats anyone?

Taylor, in Rockport TX

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Rog Coman wrote:
> I purchased 2 - 4'X8' sheets of 5/8" MEDX from a local lumber yard. About
> $96.00, includeding shipping. ...

Rog Coman on thu 29 may 08

Hi Taylor,

Checked a few ceramic outlet for MEDEX bats. Brackers, Axner & Big Ceramic
Store. They were all 3/8", pre drilled for $8.50.each, plus shipping. I
guess $1.50 per bat plus my buddy's and my time is not too bad. Specially
when you can sip a brew whilst producing. Gotta watch the fingers though.
By the way, we rounded off the edges with a router - they are really nice.
Lots of snow in the high country, but the runoff is in full swing - dam
spillways are overflowing.

Best Regards,

Rog Coman
Fish Hook Pottery
Montrose, CO (In the beautiful Uncompaghre Valley, surrounded by mountains,
in Southwestern Colorado)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Taylor Hendrix"
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: Bats


> So, about $1.35 a bat give or take, huh? How does that stack up to
> store bought bats anyone?
>
> Taylor, in Rockport TX
>
> On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Rog Coman
> wrote:
>> I purchased 2 - 4'X8' sheets of 5/8" MEDX from a local lumber yard.
>> About
>> $96.00, includeding shipping. ...

James and Sherron Bowen on fri 30 may 08

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" Lots of snow in the high country, but the runoff is in full swing - dam
spillways are overflowing"
Kinda dry out east on the Colorado prairie. We haven't had any precip since
early April. Grass doesn't look like it's going to green up any time soon. I
guess this is what drought looks like. I dug down to a depth of two feet in
the garden. Bone dry.
Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rog Coman"
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: Bats


>

------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C8C1EB.F4DD5380
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charset="utf-8"
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=EF=BB=BF

" Lots of snow in the high =
country, but the=20
runoff is in full swing - dam  spillways are =
overflowing"

Kinda dry out east on the Colorado =
prairie. We=20
haven't had any precip since early April. Grass doesn't look like it's =
going to=20
green up any time soon. I guess this is what drought looks like. I dug =
down to a=20
depth of two feet in the garden. Bone dry.

Jim

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Rog Coman" <href=3D"mailto:fishhookpottery@BRESNAN.NET">face=3DArial>fishhookpottery@BRESNAN.NETface=3DArial>>

To: <href=3D"mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG">face=3DArial>CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORGface=3DArial>>

Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:19 =
PM

Subject: Re: Bats

face=3DArial>>

------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C8C1EB.F4DD5380--

Linda Mccaleb on fri 23 oct 09

=3DA0 I want to make my own bats. I have heard pros and cons about the subj=
ec=3D
t, and heard about many ways to=3DA0 make them. I don't want plaster bats o=
nl=3D
y because they are heavy, and I have a weight limit wich I exceed daily and=
=3D
don't want to add to it.(I'll pay for it for days, and don't want surgery)=
=3D
. I like plaster bats, but they are heavy and=3DA0take a lot of room to sto=
re=3D
.=3DA0 I like them because of the way it releases. I have the regular plast=
ic=3D
cheap brown bats now. I am willing to put up with the dust and the expense=
=3D
to make some my self.=3DA0 Is there a substance that a bat can be made of =
th=3D
at is not heavy, will release while drying, and is not bulky that I can sta=
=3D
nd on end if possible, because of space issues? =3DA0Am I asking too much? =
Is=3D
there anything out there that can fill my needs?=3DA0 =3D0A=3DA0 Thank you=
for t=3D
akiing the time to read this.=3D0A=3DA0 Linda=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A

Larry Kruzan on fri 23 oct 09

Hi Linda,
I'm in process of changing over to plaster, but I have made bats from =3D
about
anything that I can saw and drill. I totally dislike (can I say "Hate") =3D
MDF
- it soaks up water, swells, molds - you name it, if it is bad. MDF does =
=3D
it.
The best is Baltic Birch from a good lumber company. Comes in 5'x5' =3D
sheets
so you get 25 12" bats from one sheet. Lasts for years and years.

Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Linda =3D
Mccaleb
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 1:25 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: bats

=3DA0 I want to make my own bats. I have heard pros and cons about the =3D
subject,
and heard about many ways to=3DA0 make them. I don't want plaster bats =3D
only
because they are heavy, and I have a weight limit wich I exceed daily =3D
and
don't want to add to it.(I'll pay for it for days, and don't want =3D
surgery).
I like plaster bats, but they are heavy and=3DA0take a lot of room to =3D
store.=3DA0 I
like them because of the way it releases. I have the regular plastic =3D
cheap
brown bats now. I am willing to put up with the dust and the expense to =3D
make
some my self.=3DA0 Is there a substance that a bat can be made of that is =
=3D
not
heavy, will release while drying, and is not bulky that I can stand on =3D
end
if possible, because of space issues? =3DA0Am I asking too much? Is there
anything out there that can fill my needs?=3DA0=3D20
=3DA0 Thank you for takiing the time to read this.
=3DA0 Linda

Steve Mills on fri 23 oct 09

I use exterior grade MDF, not as absorbent as plaster, but light
(comparatively), strong, don't warp, and store any way you want. I make 'em
myself on a very small bandsaw, so cheap as well.

Steve


On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 7:24 PM, Linda Mccaleb wro=
te:

> I want to make my own bats. I have heard pros and cons about the subjec=
t,
> and heard about many ways to make them. I don't want plaster bats only
> because they are heavy, and I have a weight limit wich I exceed daily and
> don't want to add to it.(I'll pay for it for days, and don't want surgery=
).
> I like plaster bats, but they are heavy and take a lot of room to store. =
I
> like them because of the way it releases. I have the regular plastic chea=
p
> brown bats now. I am willing to put up with the dust and the expense to m=
ake
> some my self. Is there a substance that a bat can be made of that is not
> heavy, will release while drying, and is not bulky that I can stand on en=
d
> if possible, because of space issues? Am I asking too much? Is there
> anything out there that can fill my needs?
> Thank you for takiing the time to read this.
> Linda
>
>
>
>


--
Steve
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk

Jess McKenzie on fri 23 oct 09

Linda, Bailey sells fairly low priced baltic birch bats.
Check 'em out at"

http://www.baileypottery.com/potterywheels/throwingbats.htm
~jess


Date sent: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:32:10 -0500
Send reply to: Larry Kruzan
From: Larry Kruzan
Subject: Re: bats
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]

Hi Linda, I'm in process of changing over to plaster, but I
have made bats from about anything that I can saw and drill. I
totally dislike (can I say "Hate") MDF - it soaks up water,
swells, molds - you name it, if it is bad. MDF does it. The
best is Baltic Birch from a good lumber company. Comes in
5'x5' sheets so you get 25 12" bats from one sheet. Lasts for
years and years.

Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
Linda
Mccaleb Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 1:25 PM To:
Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG Subject: bats

=3DA0 I want to make my own bats. I have heard pros and cons about
the subject, and heard about many ways to=3DA0 make them. I don't
want plaster bats only because they are heavy, and I have a
weight limit wich I exceed daily and don't want to add to
it.(I'll pay for it for days, and don't want surgery). I like
plaster bats, but they are heavy and=3DA0take a lot of room to
store.=3DA0 I like them because of the way it releases. I have the
regular plastic cheap brown bats now. I am willing to put up
with the dust and the expense to make some my self.=3DA0 Is there
a substance that a bat can be made of that is not heavy, will
release while drying, and is not bulky that I can stand on end
if possible, because of space issues? =3DA0Am I asking too much?
Is there anything out there that can fill my needs?=3DA0 =3DA0 Thank
you for takiing the time to read this. =3DA0 Linda

Adron Lilly on fri 23 oct 09

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:24:53 -0700, you wrote:

>=3DA0 I want to make my own bats. I have heard pros and cons about the =3D
subject, and heard about many ways to=3DA0 make them. I don't want plaster =
=3D
bats only because they are heavy, and I have a weight limit wich I exceed=
=3D
daily and don't want to add to it.(I'll pay for it for days, and don't =3D
want surgery). I like plaster bats, but they are heavy and=3DA0take a lot =
=3D
of room to store.=3DA0 I like them because of the way it releases. I have =
=3D
the regular plastic cheap brown bats now. I am willing to put up with the=
=3D
dust and the expense to make some my self.=3DA0 Is there a substance that =
=3D
a bat can be made of that is not heavy, will release while drying, and is=
=3D
not bulky that I can stand on end if possible, because of space issues? =
=3D
=3DA0Am I asking too much? Is there anything out there that can fill my =3D
needs?=3DA0=3D20
>=3DA0 Thank you for takiing the time to read this.
>=3DA0 Linda
>
>

Linda,

You don't mention what size bat you want so this may not work for you.

I cut a 6 inch square out of a plastic bat so that a bisque tile fits
snug in the hole (8 inch would work also -I think). This is an old
method of getting a light, cheap, easy to handle bat that releases
like plaster. Its small size fits most of what I do

There is a couple of photos here:

[IMG]http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee178/jslade_usa/100_4999.jpg[/IM=
=3D
G]

Adron

Lis Allison on fri 23 oct 09

> I want to make my own bats.

Um, you know, bats don't have to be round. If you don't have woodworking
skills or tools, you can often get the lumber supplier to cut a sheet of
something to your specs. I use square bats (just old tiles) to throw
butter dish bottoms - works fine. You get used to the corners zipping
right pdq.

Lis
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
www.Pine-Ridge-Studio.blogspot.com

Michael Wendt on fri 23 oct 09

Bats made from high density floor underlayment last
essentially for as long as you live. I made mine in 1981 and
they still look nearly new because I sealed them on all
surfaces with three coats of polyurethane clear finish.
At that time, a sheet cost about $7.00, probably a little
more now but still very low cost.
This is a type of particle board made with finer wood dust
and more bonding agents. It comes in 49" x 97" sheets so you
can actually get full size bats even allowing for the saw
kerf.
I first laid out the guide lines on one side of the sheet
and then coated the entire sheet at once since it is way
faster than coating the individual bats (I cheated and used
a roller to simply spread the pool of urethane I poured onto
the sheet).
Once one side is dry, turn it over and coat the other side,
let it dry and flip back to the first side. Light sanding
will improve the bond and make the bats much smoother, then
clean and re-coat.
repeat the treatment three times per side.
Then, cut the circles out with a hand held jig saw... very
easy.
Drill the bat pin holes and coat the insides of those as
well as the edges of the bats. I found it best to slightly
round the sharp corners to prevent chipping and to improve
the wire access for cut off.
If well sealed and smooth, they behave like plastic bats...
that is, if you forget to wire off, the pots will dry and
pop off on their own most of the time.
Best of all, they are super rigid if you use 3/4"
underlayment so wide pieces like plate finish perfectly
flat.
Regards,
Michael Wendt

June MacDonald on sat 24 oct 09

When I first started potting I got some very fine grained particle board an=
=3D
d made batts,=3DA0 I didn't have a fancy saw to cut the bats round, so I ma=
de=3D
them hexagon shaped.=3DA0 These batts have lasted over 25 years, and are s=
ti=3D
ll in good shape.=3DA0 If I were to replace them now I would use exterior g=
ra=3D
de MDF as I don't believe the type of particle board I bought back then is =
=3D
available now.=3DA0 When you are throwing, you are working with the clay , =
no=3D
t the batt, and so long as the batt is level, it doesn't matter whether it =
=3D
is round, square, or ??

June

--- On Fri, 10/23/09, Lis Allison wrote:

From: Lis Allison
Subject: Re: bats
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Received: Friday, October 23, 2009, 5:29 PM

>=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0I want to make my own bats.

Um, you know, bats don't have to be round. If you don't have woodworking
skills or tools, you can often get the lumber supplier to cut a sheet of
something to your specs. I use square bats (just old tiles) to throw
butter dish bottoms - works fine. You get used to the corners zipping
right pdq.

Lis
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
www.Pine-Ridge-Studio.blogspot.com
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A ______________________________________________________=
______=3D
______=3D0ABe smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk =
em=3D
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John Rodgers on sun 25 oct 09

Frank,

While those cut-outs are great for making bats, I use the heck out of
them in making molds. The hard smooth plastic laminate surface is really
easy to clean up and remove plaster, and if they are the back piece for
a mold pour the plaster pops loose easily. If using urethane rubber
compounds in making molds it another matter however. Urethane rubber
even sticks to glass and is incredibly difficult to pull loose - so when
using the sink cut-outs - I do make sure I use a silicone mold release
spray on virtually everything to make sure no rubber sticks. If one
fails to apply the mold release - one is in serious trouble with
urethane rubber. Silicone is similar.

But, sink cutouts are good.

John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL

Frank Gaydos wrote:
> Russel,
> That reminds me of a great place to obtain free bats. Most home
> centers that
> install sinks have tons of cut outs they just throw away. We have some
> around the studio for the 15 years. they are built to last forever.
> But, The person requesting the info wanted light weight bats and these
> are
> not those.
>
> Frank
> frankgaydos@comcast.net
> http://home.comcast.net/~frankgaydos/
>
> Success is dangerous. One begins to copy oneself, and to copy oneself is
> more dangerous than to copy others. It leads to sterility! Picasso
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Russel Fouts"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 4:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Bats
>
>
>> >> hexagonal bats <<
>>
>> Can I mention, again, for the umpteenth time since one of my first
>> discussions on Clayart in '93, my the formica topped square bats I
>> used and loved in school?
>>
>> Whew! that's out of the way for another year. ;-) ;-) ;-)
>>
>> Ru
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Russel Fouts
>> Mes Potes & Mes Pots
>> Brussels, Belgium
>> Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
>> Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
>>
>> http://www.mypots.com
>> Home of "The Potters Portal"
>> Over 3000 Pottery Related Links!
>> Updated infrequently
>>
>>
>> "Look, it's my misery that I have to paint this kind of painting,
>> it's your misery that you have to love it, and the price of the
>> misery is thirteen hundred and fifty dollars. "
>>
>> - Mark Rothko, In Art/Painting
>
>

Russel Fouts on sun 25 oct 09

>> hexagonal bats <<

Can I mention, again, for the umpteenth time since one of my first
discussions on Clayart in '93, my the formica topped square bats I
used and loved in school?

Whew! that's out of the way for another year. ;-) ;-) ;-)

Ru




Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75

http://www.mypots.com
Home of "The Potters Portal"
Over 3000 Pottery Related Links!
Updated infrequently


"Look, it's my misery that I have to paint this kind of painting,
it's your misery that you have to love it, and the price of the
misery is thirteen hundred and fifty dollars. "

- Mark Rothko, In Art/Painting

Frank Gaydos on sun 25 oct 09

Russel,
That reminds me of a great place to obtain free bats. Most home centers tha=
t
install sinks have tons of cut outs they just throw away. We have some
around the studio for the 15 years. they are built to last forever.
But, The person requesting the info wanted light weight bats and these are
not those.

Frank
frankgaydos@comcast.net
http://home.comcast.net/~frankgaydos/

Success is dangerous. One begins to copy oneself, and to copy oneself is
more dangerous than to copy others. It leads to sterility! Picasso







----- Original Message -----
From: "Russel Fouts"
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Bats


> >> hexagonal bats <<
>
> Can I mention, again, for the umpteenth time since one of my first
> discussions on Clayart in '93, my the formica topped square bats I
> used and loved in school?
>
> Whew! that's out of the way for another year. ;-) ;-) ;-)
>
> Ru
>
>
>
>
> Russel Fouts
> Mes Potes & Mes Pots
> Brussels, Belgium
> Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
> Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
>
> http://www.mypots.com
> Home of "The Potters Portal"
> Over 3000 Pottery Related Links!
> Updated infrequently
>
>
> "Look, it's my misery that I have to paint this kind of painting,
> it's your misery that you have to love it, and the price of the
> misery is thirteen hundred and fifty dollars. "
>
> - Mark Rothko, In Art/Painting

Snail Scott on mon 26 oct 09

On Oct 25, 2009, at 11:46 PM, John Rodgers wrote:
> While those cut-outs are great for making bats, I use the heck out of
> them in making molds...


Likewise. I dislike the particleboard backs
for bats, but I love those laminate sink cutouts
for mold cottles. As John said, they are smooth,
and impervious, clean up easily, and can be
had for free from custom kitchen fabricators.
One even offered to cut them to size right then
and there!

I glue AND screw a clamp strip to one edge of
each frame piece, since the particleboard
doesn't hold well. Get the cottles cut from a
big rectangular sink cutout; you can get two
per, cut lengthwise, for 2' long pieces, and
two cut the short way across for a shorter,
deeper frame. I use a square bar-sink cutout
as my usual base piece, though I have a
larger one in reserve at need.

I use mold soap as my usual release - I find
that it is adequate even for urethane rubber
molds.

-Snail

Eleanora Eden on sat 7 nov 09

Hi Linda,

I use unglazed ceramic tiles, leftover from various projects. The ones
I like best are 6" round but I also use 6" square. The pots don't pop off
like with plaster but generally after a day, if you try to undercut with a
thin rib, you can pop it off. And, unlike plaster, they don't degrade. Th=
ey
are 1/4" thin and SO easy to store. Weight not an issue.

These are my favorite bats now. Wish I had larger ones.

Best,

Eleanora



> I want to make my own bats. I have heard pros and cons about the subject=
, and heard about many ways to make them. I don't want plaster bats only b=
ecause they are heavy, and I have a weight limit wich I exceed daily and do=
n't want to add to it.(I'll pay for it for days, and don't want surgery). I=
like plaster bats, but they are heavy and take a lot of room to store. I =
like them because of the way it releases. I have the regular plastic cheap =
brown bats now. I am willing to put up with the dust and the expense to mak=
e some my self. Is there a substance that a bat can be made of that is not=
heavy, will release while drying, and is not bulky that I can stand on end=
if possible, because of space issues? Am I asking too much? Is there anyt=
hing out there that can fill my needs?
> Thank you for takiing the time to read this.
> Linda


--
Bellows Falls Vermont
www.eleanoraeden.com

Marian Parkes on tue 5 jun 12

Kim, my regular day job is a property manager. Run, don't walk, away from
any home that has a bat infestation. Just recently we had an infestation
of bats and we had to pay several thousand dollars to have the problem
mitigated. And we nearly missed the two to three month period of their
mating season during which they become a protected species and cannot be
disturbed. Had one entered the living quarters of my resident, she would
have had to have rabies shots. It's not something you want to mess with in
a potential home. Seriously.

http://icwdm.org/wildlife/bat/batguano.asp

Peggy Thompson on sat 4 aug 12

Sorry, I meant 90 degrees change to cut "x".

Peggy Thompson on sat 4 aug 12

Sorry, up too late, cut notch from "Mother bat", saves time.