John Baymore on mon 29 sep 97
------------------
......clip......
discovered (one more time) the =22real world=22...this time around it was =
the
potter's world of notched, warped, wobbly, scratched, neglected,
ill-fitting bats upon which we beginners (who NEED bats) strive to produce
our equally wobbly, but much loved, pots.
......snip......
Let me fly in the face of the developing trend here over the Jepson bat
system but just for the sake of the =22there are other ways to do it=22
department ............
When I teach beginning and intermediate throwing I do NOT have students
utilize bats at all. Pieces are picked up off the wheel. Students learn
to do this right off. Goes with learning to center, pull, and shape. It's
just one more aspect of a basic skill to be learned. And generally, they
don't do it with metal pot lifters (although lifters have their place at
times too). Most types of small and medium pieces can be removed from the
wheel with the hands. This includes bowls, and plates.
It is only for very specific forms or procedures that I eventually
introduce bats. As a tool..... for very specific reasons that are not
easily done in another manner. This also goes for the use of pot lifters,
cloth slings, bamboo strips, and the like for lifting pieces, as well as
paper on the rim to hold shape, string around the outside to hold shape,
and so on.
Bats have their uses, but in my opinion, they can become a crutch if they
are depended on too early in a potters development. Even a beginners'
small pieces can be lifted off pretty easily with a little training and
some good planning and strategy. Occasionally you =22blow it=22. That is =
just
fine..... you need to blow it occasionally. I think we tend to become
product oriented too early, and forget that the real skill being learned is
the PROCESS. After the basic process is mastered, comes the question of
WHAT we are making. Then is gets product oreinted. But you need to spend
time on process first.
As skill develops, if a piece is thrown pretty dry, compressed (particle
alligned) well, and it doesn't have slip decoration or carving or something
like that on the outside, then you can just pick it up off the wheelhead
and put it on a ware board. Yes, this leaves some minor distortions, but
I have always looked at the medium as a plastic material formed with the
hands not a machined, lathed, hard substance worked with a tool. So a
little off round or deftly indented from the fingers lifting it is often an
asset, not a liability. At the least, it just =22is=22.
I hate to see people gettting hung up early on in their clay education that
round is somehow =22perfect=22 and not round is somehow =22wrong=22 or =
=22less than
perfect=22. But at the same time, I am a stickler for developing precise
throwing skills. Not round from poor technique is not acceptable. ALLOWED
to be not round, is acceptable. But that is my more eastern asthetic
approach coming out.
I think you certainly need to work like he=24=24 to be able to throw really
tight, perfectly (maybe I should say absolutely instead =3Cg=3E) round
pieces....... so that you can then throw all that discipline out and just
make good forms without concerning yourself if they are round or not. Some
might be round, some might not be. As long as you are worrying if they are
round you are worrying about process, not form. Good pots are what they
are as far as symmetry (SP?) goes. The last time they will be spun about
their axis is when you throw them......
BTW.... why the heck are you putting up with the bad bats in your real
world (if you are going to use them)? If they are your own, replace them.
One good small pot more than pays for one new bat. If they are in a school
or rental studio you are PAYING to supply you with equipment, complain long
and loud about the inadequate facilities. If it doesn't get fixed, go
elsewhere. You are paying for those bats.
So...... another approach to the use, or not use, of bats.
Best,
....................john
PS: You could probably have a Randall bucket head machined (or a collar
added) to fit most any wheel shaft. If you are going to use plaster, I
think the Randall bat molds are far nicer than the Jepson ones.
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752
JBaymore=40Compuserve.com
Don Jones on tue 30 sep 97
>
>As skill develops, if a piece is thrown pretty dry, compressed (particle
>alligned) well, and it doesn't have slip decoration or carving or something
>like that on the outside, then you can just pick it up off the wheelhead
>and put it on a ware board. Yes, this leaves some minor distortions, but
>I have always looked at the medium as a plastic material formed with the
>hands not a machined, lathed, hard substance worked with a tool. So a
>little off round or deftly indented from the fingers lifting it is often an
>asset, not a liability. At the least, it just "is".
This has always been my favorite beef on clayart..........the use of bats.
The amount of time wasted by beginners and others dealing with cleaning,
watering, making, storing, and drying bats drives me nuts. Actually you
won't leave much distortion at all if you do a little trimming on the wheel
and throw slightly drier that the rest of the world.
If your cutoff is good, any distortion will realign when you set the piece
down. Use bats only for the most complicated pieces or when their use will
make things simpler, and enhance the finished piece.
Don Jones
claysky@highfiber.com
David Hendley on wed 1 oct 97
Have you ever put a hard-fired stoneware or porcelain bowl
on a banding wheel and given it a spin?
There's no such thing as a round bowl!
(Well, maybe a few, just by accident)
All that fussing at the cut-off stage is
for naught.
I, for one, like oval bowls.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
At 07:45 AM 9/30/97 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>
>>As skill develops, if a piece is thrown pretty dry, compressed (particle
>>alligned) well, and it doesn't have slip decoration or carving or something
>>like that on the outside, then you can just pick it up off the wheelhead
>>and put it on a ware board. Yes, this leaves some minor distortions, but
>>I have always looked at the medium as a plastic material formed with the
>>hands not a machined, lathed, hard substance worked with a tool. So a
>>little off round or deftly indented from the fingers lifting it is often an
>>asset, not a liability. At the least, it just "is".
>
>This has always been my favorite beef on clayart..........the use of bats.
>The amount of time wasted by beginners and others dealing with cleaning,
>watering, making, storing, and drying bats drives me nuts. Actually you
>won't leave much distortion at all if you do a little trimming on the wheel
>and throw slightly drier that the rest of the world.
>If your cutoff is good, any distortion will realign when you set the piece
>down. Use bats only for the most complicated pieces or when their use will
>make things simpler, and enhance the finished piece.
>
>Don Jones
>claysky@highfiber.com
>
>
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
See David Hendley's Pottery Page at
http://www.sosis.com/hendley/david/
Vince Pitelka on wed 1 oct 97
In my studio in California, many years ago, I bought eight sheets of
waterproof 3/4" particle board called RED-X, cut them into twelve-inch
squares, and used jigs to band-saw them into perfect circles and drill holes
to fit the pins on the Brent wheelhead I have on my homemade Shimpo. Put
them on the wheel one-by one and used a body-grinder to bevel the upper
edge. I did not coat them with anything. That's 256 bats. Storage was no
problem, and it was absolutely wonderful having PLENTY of bats. They are a
delight to use for all flat things like plates, wide bowls, pie-plates,
casseroles, etc. I used them for four years in California, took fifty of
them to Massachusetts with me and used them sporadically for six years
there, let my students use them for three years in North Dakota, and left
them there. They were still in PERFECT condition. Does anyone know what
this product is, and why it is not available elsewhere in the country???
These were the best bats I have ever used. I do not like plastic bats,
because they are too slick, and I do not like plaster bats for anything,
because they suck too much moisture out of the bottom of the pot, unless you
wet them thoroughly, and why should you have to do that??? Sorry to sound
like a grump here, but those RED-X bats were so completely perfect, that
nothing since measures up.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Don Jones on fri 3 oct 97
Sorry to prolong this but I just have to say a couple more good things
about the non-use of bats.
When learning to throw, one of the things to learn is the
architectural nature of wet clay in various stages. So often, when you go
into a beginning class and see all of the 1 or 2" thick cylinders with all
the slop around them on a bat you have to wonder what was learned. I
think much more is learned by throwing directly on the wheelhead and
trimming the slop away (to about 1/4 - 1/3 the way up) right after
throwing. If it is thrown properly, you can dry your hands, cut it off,
and lift it onto a ware board or table. If it is thrown improperly, it
will be too wet to trim or pickup without collapsing. One can sense right
away if it is top heavy, bottom heavy and so on.
Also MUCH less clay is wasted. Wheel head trimmings can be put on
a dry bat (one of the best uses of bats)next to the wheel and after a
session this stuff can be wedged and put away with very little slop to go
in a communal barrel. Also much less clay has to be repugged after later
trimming at the leather hard stage.
As for distortion, my guess is that most distortion occurs due to
improper throwing, trimming, and drying. Bowls for instance can be dried
with something on the rim as well as the foot. If a bowl or a plate is
thrown off center it will distort during firing no matter how well it is
trimmed or if it was thrown on a bat.
Finally, I use bats but only for the most complex or multistage uses. I
don't use plaster but rather particle board with holes to fit my brent. I
seldom throw on them but use them to move wet pieces around the studio.
One cool use for wooden bats is that for trimming, I screwed plastic flower
pots of varying sizes ( the ones with the rounded rim) onto them and solved
all of my trimming problems since all of my work have rounded tops and/or
protrusions that preclude trimming on a flat surface.
Don Jones
clayksy@highfiber.com
Albuquerque, NM
Sandra Dwiggins on sat 4 oct 97
Hey Don--great idea about the flower pots! Do you use foam on the
flower pot rims to help add friction? That would seem to be a great way
to trim things with uneven rims too....and less expensive than the giffin
grip set for uneven pots that I saw in CM.
Thanks,
Sandy in Maryland
Don Jones on sun 5 oct 97
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hey Don--great idea about the flower pots! Do you use foam on the
>flower pot rims to help add friction? That would seem to be a great way
>to trim things with uneven rims too....and less expensive than the giffin
>grip set for uneven pots that I saw in CM.
>Thanks,
>
>Sandy in Maryland
Sandy,
On one bat ,I used PVC 6" in diam. glued on with expoxy and then glued some
stuff called garage door sealer. This was a rubber strip with a groove
down the middle. I then glued it on the pvc and had a chuck to use for
very tall and narrow pieces.
On the other flower pots, I left them just the same as they came. The best
ones have a rounded rim.
Don Jones
in Albuquerque where the balloons are flying
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