Russel Fouts on mon 6 jan 97
I've read that the Santo Domingo Pueblo potters used a syrup made from
Bee Weed/Plant to draw their decoration (I've also heard bee weed mentioned
in connection with other pueblo pottery).
What I hadn't understood up to now (duh) was that it went on BEFORE
the firing. Normally a plant extract would burn off (out) in the firing, so
what's happening here? The firing is very high reduction using dung, the
white base slip (in the case of Santo Domingo Pueblo) must be resisting the
smoke to come out white.
Is the Bee Weed syrup causing an intense local carbonization where the
design is drawn? Any ideas of what could be substituted for the Bee Weed?
Russel (this is what happens when you start reading the captions under
those "pretty pictures"!)
!^NavFont02F026A0007NGHHI6B4E6F
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
* Russel Fouts, CI$: 100021,23,
Bruxelles, Belgium
Internet: 100021.23@CompuServe.Com
"It took more then one man to change my name to Shanghai Lil."
MD
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
June Perry on tue 7 jan 97
I think it's caused by the trace minerals in the boiled down material. I
believe that the Rocky mountain bee plant is actually a wild form of the
flower Cleome. Maybe someone else could verify or clarify that.
Regards,
June
Richard Burkett on tue 7 jan 97
Russel Fouts asks about pueblo pottery:
>What I hadn't understood up to now (duh) was that it went on BEFORE
>the firing. Normally a plant extract would burn off (out) in the firing, so
>what's happening here? The firing is very high reduction using dung, the
>white base slip (in the case of Santo Domingo Pueblo) must be resisting the
>smoke to come out white.
and
>Is the Bee Weed syrup causing an intense local carbonization where the
>design is drawn? Any ideas of what could be substituted for the Bee Weed?
Russel,
I think you're confusing some of the various types of pottery made by the
potters in the Southwest U.S. Yes, some of the ware is blackware, which is
highly burnished with a thin unburnished slip painted over the burnished
surface to make matte black areas. This ware is indeed highly blackened by
intense smoking with dung at the end of the mostly oxidation firing (sort of
like raku).
The bee weed comes in with the black line pottery which typically has thin
black lines drawn over a white slip surface, with occasional additions of
areas of reddish brown. This ware is fired entirely for oxidation effects (as
much as possible), with no smoking or reduction. The bee weed is boiled down
to a thick, almost charred pasted as I understand it. This concentrated
extract from the plant probably concentrates minerals that are naturally
contained in the plant, so that what is left is a ceramic pigment. Sorry, I
don't have an analysis! Many plants selectively concentrate minerals from the
soil that satisfy their particular needs for growth. One has to wonder how
bee weed was discovered (and be in awe of the inventive powers of early
potters) many centuries ago without the aid of chemistry to be the one plant
that concentrated black ceramic pigments.
Richard
Richard Burkett - School of Art, Design, & A.H, SDSU, San Diego, CA 92182-4805
E-mail: richard.burkett@sdsu.edu <-> Voice mail: (619) 594-6201
Home Page: http://rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/rburkett/www/burkett.html
CeramicsWeb: http://apple.sdsu.edu/ceramicsweb/index.html
Don Sanami on tue 7 jan 97
Russel,Is BEEPLANT BEE-BALM? If so,sounds like agood idea.Perhaps,like
HORSETAIL it is very high in SILICA. Certainly worth some
eperimentation........after the snow melts and earth once more awakes.
Snowing like crazy here,at nearly 3000ft. Don & IsaoOn Mon, 6 Jan 1997,
Russel Fouts wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> I've read that the Santo Domingo Pueblo potters used a syrup made from
> Bee Weed/Plant to draw their decoration (I've also heard bee weed mentioned
> in connection with other pueblo pottery).
>
> What I hadn't understood up to now (duh) was that it went on BEFORE
> the firing. Normally a plant extract would burn off (out) in the firing, so
> what's happening here? The firing is very high reduction using dung, the
> white base slip (in the case of Santo Domingo Pueblo) must be resisting the
> smoke to come out white.
>
> Is the Bee Weed syrup causing an intense local carbonization where the
> design is drawn? Any ideas of what could be substituted for the Bee Weed?
>
> Russel (this is what happens when you start reading the captions under
> those "pretty pictures"!)
>
> !^NavFont02F026A0007NGHHI6B4E6F
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> * Russel Fouts, CI$: 100021,23,
> Bruxelles, Belgium
> Internet: 100021.23@CompuServe.Com
>
> "It took more then one man to change my name to Shanghai Lil."
> MD
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
Vince Pitelka on tue 7 jan 97
>I've read that the Santo Domingo Pueblo potters used a syrup made from
>Bee Weed/Plant to draw their decoration (I've also heard bee weed mentioned
>in connection with other pueblo pottery).
>What I hadn't understood up to now (duh) was that it went on BEFORE
>the firing. Normally a plant extract would burn off (out) in the firing, so
>what's happening here? The firing is very high reduction using dung, the
>white base slip (in the case of Santo Domingo Pueblo) must be resisting the
>smoke to come out white.
>Is the Bee Weed syrup causing an intense local carbonization where the
>design is drawn? Any ideas of what could be substituted for the Bee Weed?
Russel -
As I understand it, the syrup is just a brushing vehicle. It burns off,
leaving the pigment on the surface. The firing for Santo Domingo polychrome
is not high-reduction. The heat is provided by dung, but it is a
clean-burning oxidizing fire and is not smothered. In contrast, Santa Clara
and San Idelfonso blackware are fired in a starved-reduction blackware
firing, which is smothered with manure and then ash or earth, charging the
clay with carbon, giving the characteristic jet-black color.
I too would like to know of a suitable alternative brushing medium. Perhaps
some of the brushing mediums that have been suggested on the list for slips
and underglazes would work - corn syrup, laundry starch, polypropylene
glycol, etc. I have not tried these over a burnished surface. Has anyone else?
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@Dekalb.Net
Phone - home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801
Appalachian Center for Crafts, Smithville TN 37166
Jeff Lawrence on wed 8 jan 97
Russell Fouts was wondering about Bee Plant:
> Normally a plant extract would burn off (out) in the firing
> The firing is very high reduction using dung, the
> white base slip (in the case of Santo Domingo Pueblo) must be resisting the
> smoke to come out white.
>
>Is the Bee Weed syrup causing an intense local carbonization where the
>design is drawn? Any ideas of what could be substituted for the Bee Weed?
Hi Russell,
Credit here to Clint Swink, Aztec, CO, who makes perfect Mimbres replicas
and gave a talk here in SF on how. You need a reducing firing, then 5-10
minutes of oxidation (after fire stops blazing, but before coals), then
cover with earth.
Myth #1: The white is not a white base slip; it is red earthenware caught
between black (total reduction) and red (total ox).
Myth #2: You're right, its not carbon. The Bee weed contains some metallic
oxides that stay black longer than the clay during the reoxidation. Catch it
right and you get black on white. Some archeologists call it carbon
painting, but that's because they're not potters. The incorrect term
persists because Murphy's in charge.
Sunflower makes a good sub for beeweed, but REALLY stinks when you boil it.
If your inlaws are still in town for the holidays, make an extra large batch
with the windows closed.
Have fun!
Jeff Lawrence
Sun Dagger Design
Rt 1 Box 394L
Espanola NM 87532
ph/fax 505-753-5913
John Guerin on wed 8 jan 97
In a message dated 97-01-07 10:57:36 EST, you write:
<< Russel Fouts asks about pueblo pottery:
>What I hadn't understood up to now (duh) was that it went on BEFORE
>the firing. Normally a plant extract would burn off (out) in the firing, so
>what's happening here? The firing is very high reduction using dung, the
>white base slip (in the case of Santo Domingo Pueblo) must be resisting the
>smoke to come out white.
and
>Is the Bee Weed syrup causing an intense local carbonization where the
>design is drawn? Any ideas of what could be substituted for the Bee Weed?
>>
Russel, you are correct in that the Bee Plant extract being a vegetable
extract will burn off in the firing. By itself, it will leave only a faint
grey shadow on the pot after a firing. The Bee weed Extract actually is used
as a "binder" to hold the mineral on the surface of the pot. The "mineral" is
usually manganese dioxide or black iron oxide, in the case of black paint,
which is found or mined in its natural state and ground up along with the Bee
Weed Extract (called Guaco) by the Pueblo Indians. Some of them keep it in
liquid form after boiling it down , but must pour it out into dried corn
husks and set it in the sun till it dries into a solid then grind it up along
with the mineral. The Bee Weed Plant is called Wild Spinich by the indians
because when they pick it in the spring and boil it, they eat it. However in
the late summer when a purple flower blooms on it, it is bitter tasting and
they just boil it for the Guaco.
Substitutes I have read about are the Mustard Plant and the Agave Plant. I
have sucessfully substituted Honey and the Mata Ortiz potters use Black
Walnut Husks.
Mesquite bark and Mesquite Sap can also be used. It doesn't sound like a very
reliable paint formula, but you can't argue with success. Their painted pots
have survived intact out in the desert for over a thousand years.
John Guerin
Indian Pottery Instructor
Pima College
Tucson,AZ
Richard Burkett on thu 9 jan 97
Jeff Lawrence says:
>Myth #1: The white is not a white base slip; it is red earthenware caught
between black (total reduction) and red (total ox).
Jeff, I'd be very interested in hearing exactly how you think this is possible.
While the slip may have some small amount of iron in it, I sincerely doubt that
it is truly red earthenware or anything close to get as white of a color as
I've seen.
Richard
richard.burkett@sdsu.edu
Richard Burkett on thu 9 jan 97
One of the best functions of clayart is that of debunking the many myths that
abound in the field of ceramics.
I've heard for years about the use of bee plant, always that it was the black
pigment not just an additive, which quite frankly amazed me but given the
wonders of nature something seemed within the realm of the possible. So, I'm
quite interested to hear that its function is indeed primarily that of a
binder, not the primary colorant. Has the bee weed extract ever been
chemically analyzed?
Thanks to John Guerin, Vince Pitelka, and Gary Hermanson for their posts
regarding this.
Richard
Richard Burkett - School of Art, Design, & A.H, SDSU, San Diego, CA 92182-4805
E-mail: richard.burkett@sdsu.edu <-> Voice mail: (619) 594-6201
Home Page: http://rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/rburkett/www/burkett.html
CeramicsWeb: http://apple.sdsu.edu/ceramicsweb/index.html
John Guerin on fri 10 jan 97
In a message dated 97-01-09 14:48:08 EST, you write:
<< ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Jeff Lawrence says:
>Myth #1: The white is not a white base slip; it is red earthenware caught
between black (total reduction) and red (total ox).
Jeff, I'd be very interested in hearing exactly how you think this is
possible.
While the slip may have some small amount of iron in it, I sincerely doubt
that
it is truly red earthenware or anything close to get as white of a color as
I've seen.
Richard
richard.burkett@sdsu.edu >>
You are right Richard. The black-on white or polychrome-on white are indeed
painted on a white slip which is applied to probably a grey or tan clay. The
pottery that is to be "reduced' to a black pot has a red slip applied to it.
They use a red slip because of the high iron content. In theory, any colored
pot undergoing a reduction firing will turn to black. But the high iron
content of the red slip produces the darkest black color that the San
Ildefonso and Santa Clara potters are known for. In the reduction firing, the
redpots are turned black by the carbon being drawn into the pots surface. in
fact, if the black reduction-fired pot were fired a second time in an
oxidation firing, it would return to the original red colored pot. This is
how some of the pueblo potters today produce those beautiful black and red
pots where part of the pot is black and part is red. After the entire pot is
reduction fired to black, they use a pin-point flame such as a propane torch
to burn some of the carbon surface back to red while leaving part of the
surface black. This process is very sensative because too much heat will
crack the pot since it is concentrated in one small spot at a time. Maria's
husband Julian discovered this process years ago using a glowing coal. Now it
is easier with a propane torch. Julian's son Popovi Da and grandson Tony Da
created some beautiful pottery using this technique.
John Guerin
Indian Pottery Instructor
Pima College
Tucson,AZ
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