ARTMOLIN@ACS.EKU.EDU on wed 2 oct 96
Is anyone familiar with firebrick by the name of
Zirmul and Tamul ?
I've just had some donated and am looking for information about them.
Thanks,
Joe
*************************************************************
Joe Molinaro INTERNET: artmolin@acs.eku.edu
Department of Art BITNET: artmolin@eku
Eastern Kentucky University VOICE: (606) 622-1634
Richmond, KY 40475
*************************************************************
Sherry Morrow on sat 28 mar 98
Hi, I sent this to the list last week, but it never showed up. I am going
to be buying my first kiln. I found a used Paragon (at my landlord's no
less) It looks reallly good, with the exception of two bricks at the very
top which have pieces chunked out of them and the cone holder only has one
wire. The cone holder should be easy to replace, right? Are the bricks
needing replaced? The pieces out of the two are about 2x2 inches or so on
each. Also the one element wire is hanging loose. I know these should be
easy to fix. I haven't got the model 3 to look up which it is, but itis at
least6-8 cu.ft. in size. He wants 5 hundred forit. He is not a potter and
doesn't know anything about it. Could someone please advise me at least on
the bricks, I don't want something I can't fix. I know I've read posts on
them, but don't know what is involved. Thanks Sherry Morrow
morrow@centric.net
RYAN KOECHEL on mon 6 may 02
I'm in the process of designing and building my own kiln and I'm looking =
for fire bricks rated to 2400 degrees or higher. I'm interested in findi=
ng out where you have had luck finding used or inexpensive bricks. Types=
of businesses or actual businesses would be very helpful.
Thank you in advance for your comments,
Ryan Koechel
Madison, Wisconsin
Tony Ferguson on mon 6 may 02
Ryan,
Unless you can find a really good deal, I would buy new and have them
delivered. You can usually find new for around $1.25 in quantity. Contact
Donna at Smith Sharp dona@smithsharp.com 1-612-331-1345. I scrounged all
summer once--the brick for my Anagama came from a salt kiln, a chimney, a
steel smelting plant, a friends back yard, and a few other places--the arch
brick in my kiln is double tapered--if you put them in a cirlcy they would
make a beehive kiln--a real joy laying an arch with these--NEVER AGAIN--I
made myself promise to use straights, at least. For all the work and
effort, gas money, renting a trailer, hauling brick to and fro--the NEXT
kiln I build I will by the brick unless I can find used brick 1/2 or more
off the cost of new brick delivered on site, clean with no motar to clean
off. Don't bother with brick that has motar on because you will be cleaning
nearly every brick, hammer, chisel, if your lucky, you can rub them
together--what I am trying to say is that in terms of cost effectiveness,
unless you are really fortunate, IT is not cost effective depending on what
you feel your time is worth. I even checked into making my own brick--not
cost effective. What kind of kiln do you hope to build?
Thank you!
Tony Ferguson
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku
www.aquariusartgallery.com
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
----- Original Message -----
From: "RYAN KOECHEL" <3226@VERONA.K12.WI.US>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 3:29 PM
Subject: Bricks
> I'm in the process of designing and building my own kiln and I'm looking
for fire bricks rated to 2400 degrees or higher. I'm interested in finding
out where you have had luck finding used or inexpensive bricks. Types of
businesses or actual businesses would be very helpful.
>
> Thank you in advance for your comments,
> Ryan Koechel
> Madison, Wisconsin
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
RYAN KOECHEL on mon 6 may 02
Thanks for the tips...I'm going to give Donna a call and see what its going=
to cost to get them down here to Madison, I'm getting a price quote tomo=
rrow from a place called Wisconsin Brick and block, unfortunately they do=
n't make their own firebrick...I did talk to their supplier of fire brick=
and he mentioned they only sell 2800 degree brick to WBB so I have the f=
eeling its going to be a little pricey...A friend and myself are planning=
on building a small cross draft wood burning kiln. We are not quite sur=
e on the exact size or dimensions...thats going to depend on brick pricin=
g.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Ferguson
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:58:47 -0700
Subject: Re: Bricks
Ryan,
Unless you can find a really good deal, I would buy new and have them
delivered. You can usually find new for around $1.25 in quantity. Contact
Donna at Smith Sharp dona@smithsharp.com 1-612-331-1345. I scrounged all
summer once--the brick for my Anagama came from a salt kiln, a chimney, a
steel smelting plant, a friends back yard, and a few other places--the arch
brick in my kiln is double tapered--if you put them in a cirlcy they would
make a beehive kiln--a real joy laying an arch with these--NEVER AGAIN--I
made myself promise to use straights, at least. For all the work and
effort, gas money, renting a trailer, hauling brick to and fro--the NEXT
kiln I build I will by the brick unless I can find used brick 1/2 or more
off the cost of new brick delivered on site, clean with no motar to clean
off. Don't bother with brick that has motar on because you will be cleanin=
g
nearly every brick, hammer, chisel, if your lucky, you can rub them
together--what I am trying to say is that in terms of cost effectiveness,
unless you are really fortunate, IT is not cost effective depending on what
you feel your time is worth. I even checked into making my own brick--not
cost effective. What kind of kiln do you hope to build?
Thank you!
Tony Ferguson
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku
www.aquariusartgallery.com
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
----- Original Message -----
From: "RYAN KOECHEL" <3226@VERONA.K12.WI.US>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 3:29 PM
Subject: Bricks
> I'm in the process of designing and building my own kiln and I'm lookin=
g
for fire bricks rated to 2400 degrees or higher. I'm interested in finding
out where you have had luck finding used or inexpensive bricks. Types of
businesses or actual businesses would be very helpful.
>
> Thank you in advance for your comments,
> Ryan Koechel
> Madison, Wisconsin
>
>
___________________________________________________________________________=
_
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
___________________________________________________________________________=
___
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.=
com.
Brandon Phillips on tue 7 may 02
Ryan,
I bought a couple thousand bricks back in December from RHI Refractories. I
bought clippers (super-duty firebrick, 3000+/-) for a $1.24 per brick. I
got mine shipped from Dallas, but i believe they have a warehouse in
chicago, or maybe there is one even closer to you. Shipping was about $700
and you need to have a way to get them off the truck (forklift).
Brandon Phillips
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Nils Lou on wed 22 dec 10
Vince is correct as usual. Of course you can re-use the
hard brick from a previous salt kiln. The caveat is, as
he says, check each one. There's even a benefit as the salt
residue built up from previous use will enhance the=3D20
salting atmosphere so less salt is required.=3D20
nils lou, professor of art
http://nilslou.blogspot.com
www.tinyurl.com/bpc5nm
503.883.2274
"Play is the essence of creativity", and
"What is not brought forward into consciousness....
we later call Fate", Carl Jung
mel jacobson on wed 22 dec 10
we sure have used a great many used brick.
we just turn them around. throw out any that
have been totally ruined. even ifb's that we used
on a salt kiln..they became outside brick.
same for any kiln made of ifb.
you can just turn them around, or use
them on the outer course.
a great way to get a new kiln.
some of my ifb's were purchased in 1962.
been used on five different kilns.
now, for the flat top...i would only replace
with brand new bricks.
take those roof bricks and use them on the
outside of a kiln.
mel
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
new book: http://www.21stcenturykilns.com
alternate: melpots7575@gmail.com
Vince Pitelka on mon 2 may 11
Fredrick Paget wrote:
"Some years ago I made a brick mold out of angle iron and have used it to
make some bricks out of tired reclaim clay or old stuff of a sort that I no
longer want to use. I seem to have been buying too much clay as some has
been sitting for over 10 years. Some of the bricks are earthenware from
local clay. Some are stoneware and a couple are porcelain and one is even
stained blue. If I pile these up in the yard is it art?
Hi Fred -
It is if you say it is.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
David Woof on mon 2 may 11
Guys=3D2C first you must be able to define and agree on what art is before =
yo=3D
u venture into the discussion of whether a pile of bricks is art. Does put=
=3D
ting others or other ideas down elevate anyone's "stuff" any higher except =
=3D
possibly in the insecure mind of the maker. Could one simply take open m=
=3D
inded vicarious pleasure in the visions and pleasures of others? Who know=
=3D
s what other ideas and creative visions a pile of bricks could inspire in a=
=3D
n open and attentive mind.
=3D20
David Woof.......Clarkdale=3D2C Arizona......
____________________________________________________
=3D20
1a. Re: bricks
Posted by: "Steve Mills" original.mudslinger@GMAIL.COM=3D20
Date: Mon May 2=3D2C 2011 4:15 pm ((PDT))
=3D20
Only in the Tate Modern in London!
=3D20
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
=3D20
On 2 May 2011=3D2C at 18:15=3D2C Fredrick Paget wrote:
=3D20
> Some years ago I made a brick mold out of angle iron and have used it
> to make some bricks out of tired reclaim clay or old stuff of a sort
> that I no longer want to use.
>
> I seem to have been buying too much clay as some has been sitting
> for over 10 years. Some of the bricks are earthenware from local
> clay. Some are stoneware and a couple are porcelain and one is even
> stained blue
>
> If I pile these up in the yard is it art?
>
>
> Fred
> --
> Twin Dragon Studio
> Mill Valley=3D2C CA=3D2C USA
=3D20
=3D20
=3D
Fredrick Paget on mon 2 may 11
Some years ago I made a brick mold out of angle iron and have used it
to make some bricks out of tired reclaim clay or old stuff of a sort
that I no longer want to use.
I seem to have been buying too much clay as some has been sitting
for over 10 years. Some of the bricks are earthenware from local
clay. Some are stoneware and a couple are porcelain and one is even
stained blue
If I pile these up in the yard is it art?
Fred
--
Twin Dragon Studio
Mill Valley, CA, USA
Steve Mills on mon 2 may 11
Only in the Tate Modern in London!
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
On 2 May 2011, at 18:15, Fredrick Paget wrote:
> Some years ago I made a brick mold out of angle iron and have used it
> to make some bricks out of tired reclaim clay or old stuff of a sort
> that I no longer want to use.
>
> I seem to have been buying too much clay as some has been sitting
> for over 10 years. Some of the bricks are earthenware from local
> clay. Some are stoneware and a couple are porcelain and one is even
> stained blue
>
> If I pile these up in the yard is it art?
>
>
> Fred
> --
> Twin Dragon Studio
> Mill Valley, CA, USA
Terry O'Neill on mon 2 may 11
On Mon, 2 May 2011 10:15:43 -0700, Fredrick Paget =3D20
wrote:
Fred,
If you could pile it the way I used to you're damn right it would be art =
=3D
(a=3D20
recovering mason of two decades....long, long ago).
Had no idea at the time I was a ceramic artist.
Nowadays I just pile it high.
Terry
>Some years ago I made a brick mold out of angle iron and have used it
>to make some bricks out of tired reclaim clay or old stuff of a sort
>that I no longer want to use.
>
> I seem to have been buying too much clay as some has been sitting
>for over 10 years. Some of the bricks are earthenware from local
>clay. Some are stoneware and a couple are porcelain and one is even
>stained blue
>
>If I pile these up in the yard is it art?
>
>
>Fred
>--
>Twin Dragon Studio
>Mill Valley, CA, USA
James Freeman on mon 2 may 11
I think there were a few in the pile of rubbish next to Tracy Emin's bed!
Go, Sir Nicholas!
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Steve Mills
wrote:
> Only in the Tate Modern in London!
>
> Steve Mills
> Bath
> UK
> www.mudslinger.me.uk
> Sent from my Ipod touch
>
> On 2 May 2011, at 18:15, Fredrick Paget wrote:
>
>
> >
> > If I pile these up in the yard is it art?
> >
> >
> > Fred
> > --
> > Twin Dragon Studio
> > Mill Valley, CA, USA
>
Randall Moody on mon 2 may 11
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Fredrick Paget wrote:
> Some years ago I made a brick mold out of angle iron and have used it
> to make some bricks out of tired reclaim clay or old stuff of a sort
> that I no longer want to use.
>
> I seem to have been buying too much clay as some has been sitting
> for over 10 years. Some of the bricks are earthenware from local
> clay. Some are stoneware and a couple are porcelain and one is even
> stained blue
>
> If I pile these up in the yard is it art?
>
>
> Fred
> --
> Twin Dragon Studio
> Mill Valley, CA, USA
>
It depends on your motivation or concept.
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
Vince Pitelka on tue 3 may 11
David Woof:
"Guys, first you must be able to define and agree on what art is before you
venture into the discussion of whether a pile of bricks is art. Does
putting others or other ideas down elevate anyone's "stuff" any higher
except possibly in the insecure mind of the maker. Could one simply take
open minded vicarious pleasure in the visions and pleasures of others? Wh=
o
knows what other ideas and creative visions a pile of bricks could inspire
in an open and attentive mind."
Hi David -
This is a topic where I do not mind sounding like a broken record. Agreein=
g
on "what art is" is of course pointless, because the minute you define it,
you limit what it can be. Those inclined towards the absurd always like to
chime in with "Well, if you can't define what art is, then apparently art i=
s
everything." Well, that is pure idiocy. If someone says that a particular
thing is art, it might be, and all we can do is, as you say, "take an
open-minded vicarious pleasure in the visions and pleasures of others." We
have every right to decide whether we think that art is good or bad, but
rudely putting down the work of other artists is certainly the sign of an
insecure mind. Unfortunately, in the art world, insecurity is epidemic.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Randall Moody on tue 3 may 11
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> David Woof:
> "Guys, first you must be able to define and agree on what art is before y=
ou
> venture into the discussion of whether a pile of bricks is art. Does
> putting others or other ideas down elevate anyone's "stuff" any higher
> except possibly in the insecure mind of the maker. Could one simply ta=
ke
> open minded vicarious pleasure in the visions and pleasures of others?
> Who
> knows what other ideas and creative visions a pile of bricks could inspir=
e
> in an open and attentive mind."
>
> Hi David -
> This is a topic where I do not mind sounding like a broken record.
> Agreeing
> on "what art is" is of course pointless, because the minute you define it=
,
> you limit what it can be. Those inclined towards the absurd always like =
to
> chime in with "Well, if you can't define what art is, then apparently art
> is
> everything." Well, that is pure idiocy. If someone says that a particul=
ar
> thing is art, it might be, and all we can do is, as you say, "take an
> open-minded vicarious pleasure in the visions and pleasures of others." =
We
> have every right to decide whether we think that art is good or bad, but
> rudely putting down the work of other artists is certainly the sign of an
> insecure mind. Unfortunately, in the art world, insecurity is epidemic.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
Ahhh but Vince, if, as you put it, "once you define it, you limit what it
can be" then not defining it makes it limitless and thus it can be
everything. This is not absurd as you say but rather a simple logical
progression. As to "open mindedness" I know a few people whose minds are s=
o
open that pretty much everything has fallen out. :)
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
Bob Seele on tue 3 may 11
clip, clip
Fredrick Paget wrote:
"Some years ago I made a brick mold out of angle iron and have used it
to
make some bricks...
.....................If I pile these up in the yard is it art?
and Vince rote :
It is if you say it is.
My house is mad out of brick.
I painted it white.
Am I NOW an artist ?
alota
bs
Vince Pitelka on tue 3 may 11
Randall Moody wrote:
"Ahhh but Vince, if, as you put it, "once you define it, you limit what it
can be" then not defining it makes it limitless and thus it can be
everything. This is not absurd as you say but rather a simple logical
progression. As to "open mindedness" I know a few people whose minds are s=
o
open that pretty much everything has fallen out. :)"
Hi Randall -
The logical progression leads to "art can be anything," and not to "art is
everything," which some people like to counter with, and which would negate
art completely. The impossibility of any specific definition for art does
not in any way deny or diminish the search for understanding and
appreciation. That's the joy of it. Defining it would take a lot of the fu=
n
out of it.
And regarding people whose minds are so open, in my experience it is not a
question of everything falling out, but rather the potential for anything t=
o
enter. The people with closed minds are the ones in danger of losing the
capacity for rational thought.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
James Freeman on tue 3 may 11
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Bob Seele wrote:
My house is mad out of brick.
I painted it white.
Am I NOW an artist ?
Yes you are, Bob. But the real question is whether or not your painted
brick house is ceramic art. Many seem to be arguing that it is.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
Terry O'Neill on tue 3 may 11
On Tue, 3 May 2011 14:34:41 -0400, James Freeman=3D20
wrote:
>On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Bob Seele =3D20
wrote:
>
>My house is mad out of brick.
>I painted it white.
>
>Am I NOW an artist ?
>
>
>
>
>Yes you are, Bob. But the real question is whether or not your painted
>brick house is ceramic art. Many seem to be arguing that it is.
>
>All the best.
>
>...James
>
>James Freeman
>
>"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
>preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
>
>"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I shou=
=3D
ld
>not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
>-Michel de Montaigne
>
>http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
>http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
Depends on the skill of the brickie who laid it in the first place. If y=
=3D
ou felt=3D20
the need to cover it......probably not.
But then again it did go through the quartz inversion. Hmmm, tough one.=
=3D
pdp1 on tue 3 may 11
Hi James, Bob, all,
My own opinion, is that a Painted Brick, is a Painted Brick.
Whether it is in a context where it may be gushed or fawned over as 'Art' i=
s
another story.
But I would not go so far as to call it a 'Ceramic Art' piece, even if it
was of an appearance, or, situated in a context, permitting it to be
construed as 'Art'.
I would call it a 'Painted Brick Art Piece'.
A Carved or Incised Brick, ought to be described honestly, as such - Viz:
"A Carved ( or Incised ) Brick".
To call such 'Ceramic Art' in my opinion, is being disingenuous and cloying
and is merely trying to exploit a superficial reaction upon credulity or
gullability on pretext of forcing an over-literal definition into a pretext
for borrowing an un-earned Mistique belonging to something else entirely.
A nicely painted or carved or incised Brick may indeed stand on it's own as
a meritorious work.
And if so, it can do so Honestly I think, as such.
If it is a Glazed Brick, it can be described honestly as well - "Glazed
Brick".
If there is a point in which one could reasonably call Glazed Brick 'Cerami=
c
Art', instead of calling it 'Glazed Brick', I am not sure where that point
would be.
Actually, I do not think that point is reachable, were one to remain
'reasonable', now that I muse on it a moment.
Love,
Phil
L v
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Freeman"
> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Bob Seele wrote:
>
> My house is mad out of brick.
> I painted it white.
>
> Am I NOW an artist ?
>
>
>
>
> Yes you are, Bob. But the real question is whether or not your painted
> brick house is ceramic art. Many seem to be arguing that it is.
>
> All the best.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
>
> "...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
> preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
>
> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I shoul=
d
> not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
> -Michel de Montaigne
>
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
Vince Pitelka on tue 3 may 11
Alota BS wrote:
My house is mad out of brick. I painted it white. Am I NOW an artist ?
Dear Alota BS,
You are if you say so. Rather than "alota BS," which seems a strange but
perhaps appropriate signature, this approach is exactly how we can avoid al=
l
the unnecessary BS.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Steve Mills on tue 3 may 11
A while back, the work force at a plant owned by the Ibstock Brick Co. in t=
h=3D
e UK, where they made specialised bricks to order, were informed that the p=
l=3D
ant was to be closed down and the employees made redundant.=3D20
Not unnaturally the workers were a little upset, and showed their displeasu=
r=3D
e with a special batch of bricks with a very rude word impressed thereon.=
=3D20=3D
http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/tomhix/3485948212/
Those of that issue that survive are, of course, collectors items!!
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
On 3 May 2011, at 20:24, pdp1 wrote:
> Hi James, Bob, all,
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> My own opinion, is that a Painted Brick, is a Painted Brick.
>=3D20
> Whether it is in a context where it may be gushed or fawned over as 'Art'=
i=3D
s
> another story.
>=3D20
>=3D20
> But I would not go so far as to call it a 'Ceramic Art' piece, even if it
> was of an appearance, or, situated in a context, permitting it to be
> construed as 'Art'.
>=3D20
>=3D20
> I would call it a 'Painted Brick Art Piece'.
>=3D20
>=3D20
> A Carved or Incised Brick, ought to be described honestly, as such - Viz=
:=3D
> "A Carved ( or Incised ) Brick".
>=3D20
> To call such 'Ceramic Art' in my opinion, is being disingenuous and cloyi=
n=3D
g
> and is merely trying to exploit a superficial reaction upon credulity or
> gullability on pretext of forcing an over-literal definition into a prete=
x=3D
t
> for borrowing an un-earned Mistique belonging to something else entirely.
>=3D20
>=3D20
> A nicely painted or carved or incised Brick may indeed stand on it's own =
a=3D
s
> a meritorious work.
>=3D20
> And if so, it can do so Honestly I think, as such.
>=3D20
>=3D20
> If it is a Glazed Brick, it can be described honestly as well - "Glazed
> Brick".
>=3D20
>=3D20
> If there is a point in which one could reasonably call Glazed Brick 'Cera=
m=3D
ic
> Art', instead of calling it 'Glazed Brick', I am not sure where that poin=
t=3D
> would be.
>=3D20
> Actually, I do not think that point is reachable, were one to remain
> 'reasonable', now that I muse on it a moment.
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Love,
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Phil
> L v
>=3D20
>=3D20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Freeman"
>=3D20
>> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Bob Seele wrote=
:=3D
>>=3D20
>> My house is mad out of brick.
>> I painted it white.
>>=3D20
>> Am I NOW an artist ?
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> Yes you are, Bob. But the real question is whether or not your painted
>> brick house is ceramic art. Many seem to be arguing that it is.
>>=3D20
>> All the best.
>>=3D20
>> ...James
>>=3D20
>> James Freeman
>>=3D20
>> "...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
>> preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
>>=3D20
>> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I shou=
l=3D
d
>> not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
>> -Michel de Montaigne
>>=3D20
>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
James Freeman on tue 3 may 11
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM, pdp1 wrote:
To call such 'Ceramic Art' in my opinion, is being disingenuous and cloying
and is merely trying to exploit a superficial reaction upon credulity or
gullability on pretext of forcing an over-literal definition into a pretext
for borrowing an un-earned Mistique belonging to something else entirely.
Phil, others...
This was my point precisely. I only wish that I had been able to state it
as clearly as you have. Though the brick is nominally a ceramic object, to
call it a work of ceramic art seems to rely, as you state, on an overly
literal definition, and one that I still feel is not useful or meaningful i=
n
a craft-critical context, despite any usefulness it may have in the context
of physics or geology or chemistry. (Yes, I am aware that the bricks seem
to have been made by the artist, but this fact is largely irrelevant, as
bricks are fungible, and yes, I am also aware of Robert Arneson's bricks,
which were made for completely different reasons, so are not relevant to
this discussion.)
Note also that I am not questioning whether or not the painted brick is
"art". I have stipulated that it is for the sake of keeping the discussion
focused. My entire line of inquiry centers upon whether or not the painted
bricks are "ceramic art" (in a meaningful rather than overly-literal and no=
t
terribly useful sense), and whether they add anything at all to the field o=
f
"ceramic art", completely aside from whatever they might add to the field o=
f
art in general. I keep coming back to the conclusion that it is a painting
or a mixed-media "sculpture", and still cannot see how it finds any place i=
n
a craft-specific journal devoted to ceramic art. Yet there it was. More
thinking to do. Thank you all for helping me puzzle through this.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
Johanna San Inocencio on wed 4 may 11
Now I could see one of those bricks prominently displayed in my home.
Johanna
On May 3, 2011, at 5:50 PM, Steve Mills wrote:
> A while back, the work force at a plant owned by the Ibstock Brick Co. =
=3D
in the UK, where they made specialised bricks to order, were informed =3D
that the plant was to be closed down and the employees made redundant.=3D20=
=3D
> Not unnaturally the workers were a little upset, and showed their =3D
displeasure with a special batch of bricks with a very rude word =3D
impressed thereon.=3D20
> http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/tomhix/3485948212/
> Those of that issue that survive are, of course, collectors items!!
>=3D20
> Steve M
>=3D20
> Steve Mills
> Bath
> UK
> www.mudslinger.me.uk
> Sent from my Ipod touch
>=3D20
> On 3 May 2011, at 20:24, pdp1 wrote:
>=3D20
>> Hi James, Bob, all,
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> My own opinion, is that a Painted Brick, is a Painted Brick.
>>=3D20
>> Whether it is in a context where it may be gushed or fawned over as =3D
'Art' is
>> another story.
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> But I would not go so far as to call it a 'Ceramic Art' piece, even =3D
if it
>> was of an appearance, or, situated in a context, permitting it to be
>> construed as 'Art'.
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> I would call it a 'Painted Brick Art Piece'.
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> A Carved or Incised Brick, ought to be described honestly, as such - =
=3D
Viz:
>> "A Carved ( or Incised ) Brick".
>>=3D20
>> To call such 'Ceramic Art' in my opinion, is being disingenuous and =3D
cloying
>> and is merely trying to exploit a superficial reaction upon credulity =
=3D
or
>> gullability on pretext of forcing an over-literal definition into a =3D
pretext
>> for borrowing an un-earned Mistique belonging to something else =3D
entirely.
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> A nicely painted or carved or incised Brick may indeed stand on it's =3D
own as
>> a meritorious work.
>>=3D20
>> And if so, it can do so Honestly I think, as such.
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> If it is a Glazed Brick, it can be described honestly as well - =3D
"Glazed
>> Brick".
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> If there is a point in which one could reasonably call Glazed Brick =3D
'Ceramic
>> Art', instead of calling it 'Glazed Brick', I am not sure where that =3D
point
>> would be.
>>=3D20
>> Actually, I do not think that point is reachable, were one to remain
>> 'reasonable', now that I muse on it a moment.
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> Love,
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> Phil
>> L v
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "James Freeman"
>>=3D20
>>> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Bob Seele =3D
wrote:
>>>=3D20
>>> My house is mad out of brick.
>>> I painted it white.
>>>=3D20
>>> Am I NOW an artist ?
>>>=3D20
>>>=3D20
>>>=3D20
>>>=3D20
>>> Yes you are, Bob. But the real question is whether or not your =3D
painted
>>> brick house is ceramic art. Many seem to be arguing that it is.
>>>=3D20
>>> All the best.
>>>=3D20
>>> ...James
>>>=3D20
>>> James Freeman
>>>=3D20
>>> "...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, =3D
too
>>> preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
>>>=3D20
>>> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I =3D
should
>>> not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
>>> -Michel de Montaigne
>>>=3D20
>>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
>>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
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