Orion Ceramic Studios on sun 24 aug 97
Disbelief! Shock! Revulsion!
Someone suggested that Clayart should serve to blacklist of the names of
university professors "who tells people that you cannot make a living at
pottery." For shame!
Heaven forbid that this forum should ever serve as a blacklist!
Ellen Baker, Orion Ceramic Studios
orion@telcomplus.com
Dannon Rhudy on mon 25 aug 97
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Disbelief! Shock! Revulsion!
Someone suggested that Clayart should serve to blacklist of the
names of
university professors "who tells people that you cannot make a
living at
pottery." For shame!
Heaven forbid that this forum should ever serve as a blacklist!
Ellen Baker, Orion Ceramic Studios
orion@telcomplus.com
----------------------------------------
I must have missed that post. The only one I saw said that
professors who say that one can't make a living at pottery should
have their names published on clayart. That does not seem to
me to constitute a "blacklist". If Prof. Jones informs students
or the world at large that a potter can not expect to make a
living, then what is wrong with people knowing that Prof. Jones
is of that opinion? Presumably it is not a secret, or said
professor would only whisper to students in private, pledge them
to secrecy. An unlikely event. I think "blacklist" might be just
a tad inflamatory.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
Vince Pitelka on mon 25 aug 97
At 11:48 AM 8/24/97 -0400, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Disbelief! Shock! Revulsion!
>
>Someone suggested that Clayart should serve to blacklist of the names of
>university professors "who tells people that you cannot make a living at
>pottery." For shame!
>
>Heaven forbid that this forum should ever serve as a blacklist!
>
>Ellen Baker, Orion Ceramic Studios
Oh for Christ sake Ellen calm down. Who ever said anything about a
blacklist?? I just said to post the names of faculty who make a practice of
telling people that you cannot make a living as a potter. Anyone who is
misleading students in this way should be exposed. Please read my messages
more carefully.
- Vince
>orion@telcomplus.com
>
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Timothy Dean Malm on tue 26 aug 97
Greetings from Seattle:
Here's one professor of art who fundamentally believes that becoming a
potter and boing business as one is certainly possible and I tell my
students this but concerning listing names, I only asks, what is the point
of listing names if not to generate some outcome. What is/are the
outcomes. One is to cast a negative light on those who do not share my
beliefs. On this list, to accept anothers statements as documented
truth when it pertains to he said/she said issues is to possibly defame a
colleague. I call that a defacto blacklist.
Tim Malm
Assoc. Prof. of Art, Seattle Pacific University
Pres. Washington Potters Assoc.
Don Jones on tue 26 aug 97
>Oh for Christ sake Ellen calm down. Who ever said anything about a
>blacklist?? I just said to post the names of faculty who make a practice of
>telling people that you cannot make a living as a potter. Anyone who is
>misleading students in this way should be exposed. Please read my messages
>more carefully.
>- Vince
>
>
>>orion@telcomplus.com
>>
>Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
>Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
>Appalachian Center for Crafts
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Actually Vince, I think that Ellen should calm down but I also think she
is right. Publishing names in a negative list like that reminds me of how
they used to punish people in Bakersfield CA. The people who got caught
soliciting a hooker got his name published in a special list in the
Californian.
We should keep our discussions general so when we vent negativity we can do
it in a safe environment
Don Jones
The Wrights on tue 26 aug 97
Orion Ceramic Studios wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Disbelief! Shock! Revulsion!
>
> Someone suggested that Clayart should serve to blacklist of the names of
> university professors "who tells people that you cannot make a living at
> pottery." For shame!
>
> Heaven forbid that this forum should ever serve as a blacklist!
>
> Ellen Baker, Orion Ceramic Studios
> orion@telcomplus.com
I'm the one who started this "potting as a business" string. I would
never post my professor's name, because in his way, he was trying to
help. He was trying to warn of the very hard work it is. So, don't
worry. If a person is meant to be a potter, they will overcome that
stuff.
Talbott on tue 26 aug 97
Good points... that is one reason why we have a moderator so that the self
righteous cannot defame those who hold different opinions... The ability to
earn a living as a potter depends on the POTTER as a potter and as a
business person and not on what someone has or has not told them... To say
that one cannot earn a living as a potter is foolishness but there is no
reason to post the names of those who say foolish things otherwise ALL of
us would be on a blacklist somewhere or other... ....Marshall
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Greetings from Seattle:
>
>Here's one professor of art who fundamentally believes that becoming a
>potter and boing business as one is certainly possible and I tell my
>students this but concerning listing names, I only asks, what is the point
>of listing names if not to generate some outcome. What is/are the
>outcomes. One is to cast a negative light on those who do not share my
>beliefs. On this list, to accept anothers statements as documented
>truth when it pertains to he said/she said issues is to possibly defame a
>colleague. I call that a defacto blacklist.
>
>Tim Malm
>Assoc. Prof. of Art, Seattle Pacific University
>Pres. Washington Potters Assoc.
1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
2nd Annual Clayarters' Gallery details will be forth coming!!!
"An Outstanding Collection of Pottery Under One Roof"... A juried exhibit
Feel free to send comments or suggestions on how to make the second
exhibit a tremendous success
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT & Sun Afternoons at
1 PM EDT Private Room: Clayarters E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net
Jan Lipuma on wed 27 aug 97
Dear clayarters,
When studying ANY given subject - a student uses all available information
to chose where to spend their money. It would be very helpful to me, if I
knew where the clay studios were that incorporated respect for, and
information about earning a living in clay. I do not wish to study with
the art-farts (half of them are going to be "working for the man" 10 years
from now anyway). The explorers into self indulgent "projects" are
interesting and do have something to teach me (I do recognize this fact)
but...I don't have lifespan enough to screw around impressing the
department with breakthrough "feats". I would rather learn how to impress
myself with timely filled orders, stored inventory, straight books, and the
sign that says, "The potter is in".
To acknowledge those who teach what I aspire to learn, could enlighten a
lot of us. Methodical business and production practices do not just
happen, even with a lifetime of potting. The unfortunate negative
termonology of "blacklisting" is not even related to this issue. A lot of
potters are not interested in having a mentor/teacher who BELIEVES we can
make an honest living at what we do, but fortunately, some know otherwise.
Who are they and where are they? That is a positive question.
It is only additional information. Why would one go to a class
specializing in majolica, if what they really wanted was wood firing????
Knowledge is power. Regards,
Janice Lipuma
Blue Moon Studio
Lexington KY
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I only asks, what is the point
>of listing names if not to generate some outcome. What is/are the
>outcomes. One is to cast a negative light on those who do not share my
>beliefs. On this list, to accept anothers statements as documented
>truth when it pertains to he said/she said issues is to possibly defame a
>colleague. I call that a defacto blacklist.
>
>Tim Malm
>Assoc. Prof. of Art, Seattle Pacific University
>Pres. Washington Potters Assoc.
Vince Pitelka on wed 27 aug 97
At 08:52 AM 8/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Greetings from Seattle:
>
>Here's one professor of art who fundamentally believes that becoming a
>potter and boing business as one is certainly possible and I tell my
>students this but concerning listing names, I only asks, what is the point
>of listing names if not to generate some outcome. What is/are the
>outcomes. One is to cast a negative light on those who do not share my
>beliefs. On this list, to accept anothers statements as documented
>truth when it pertains to he said/she said issues is to possibly defame a
>colleague. I call that a defacto blacklist.
>Tim Malm
>Assoc. Prof. of Art, Seattle Pacific University
>Pres. Washington Potters Assoc.
I don't know what else I can say about this. If there are ceramics faculty
out there who are telling their students that making pottery as a profession
is an unrealistic goal, people on this list should know who and where they
are. That's common sense and a valuable service. How in the world can you
possibly compare that to a blacklist??
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Vince Pitelka on wed 27 aug 97
At 02:32 PM 8/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Good points... that is one reason why we have a moderator so that the self
>righteous cannot defame those who hold different opinions... The ability to
>earn a living as a potter depends on the POTTER as a potter and as a
>business person and not on what someone has or has not told them... To say
>that one cannot earn a living as a potter is foolishness but there is no
>reason to post the names of those who say foolish things otherwise ALL of
>us would be on a blacklist somewhere or other... ....Marshall
I am going to seem like a real hardass about this, but what the hell. When
any individual on the street or in the studio tells someone that they cannot
make a living as a potter, it is just one person's opinion. When a
university professor tells his or her students, over whom he or she is in a
position of considerable influence, that you cannot make a living as a
potter, it is a a sad corruption of the teaching profession. No matter how
much a good teacher goes out of his or her way to make it clear that things
he or she says are just an individual's opinion, students tend to take them
as indisputable fact. I would certainly hope that anyone truly inclined to
be a studio potter would disregard such bad advice, but what a shame that
they should have to face it and deal with it at all. We all get bad advice
at some time, but the university education should open up a vast and
wonderful horizon of options. Remember that I am a real idealist and
optimist about the noble goals fo fine arts education. I think any teacher
who closes doors and limits options, either deliberately or out of
ignorance, is guilty of gross incompetence, and prospective students should
be made aware of that incompetence. This list is an ideal forum for such a
valuable service.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Chris Weeks on wed 27 aug 97
Marshall Talbot wrote:
> but there is no reason to post the names of those who say foolish
things
and Tim Malm wrote:
>I only asks, what is the point
>of listing names if not to generate some outcome. What is/are the
>outcomes. One is to cast a negative light on those who do not share my
>beliefs. On this list, to accept anothers statements as documented
>truth when it pertains to he said/she said issues is to possibly defame
a
>colleague. I call that a defacto blacklist.
Excuse me, but I think it's odd to suggest that telling on someone who's
doing something 'wrong' is a bad idea. What if I were shopping around
for a university to go to that would satisfy several needs, one being
the provision of a decent clay program? Wouldn't it be reasonable for
me to receive the opinions of the students who've dealt with the faculty
in question? Who is accepting the original opinion as documented
truth? When I read that some glaze recipe causes a certain effect, I
don't consider that the 'end all' of the truth either, I test it in my
own kiln before accepting it.
Doesn't calling it a blacklist suggest that we (whoever you think is
involved in this blacklist conspiracy) have at least implied that we'd
agree to devalue the members of the 'blacklist'? If some professor is
maligning our (a)vocation, we have a right to know about the situation.
The students also have a right to know the truth. Knowing the person's
name and someone's negative opinion doesn't mean that I'm going to
accept whatever is said as gospel, just that I might ask a few more
questions before attending said classes.
Maybe I just don't 'get it.'
Christopher L. Weeks
Columbia Missouri
Leslie Ihde on thu 28 aug 97
I have to say, I sympathize with Vince's sentiments- it's reasonable to
discuss the orientation of professors before spending mega bucks to study
with them. If you are of a practical mind set, why study with someone who
isn't practical about your interests? How will you know who is and who
isn't without sharing the info- however- BE SURE YOU ARE ACCURATE in your
reports.
Leslie
Vestal NY
Talbott on thu 28 aug 97
Vince....
You are kidding... Right! People also often misconstrue what was
really stated...
Publishing such a list would truely be disregarding the rights of others
and is socially and morally irresponsible... ...Marshall
-----------------------------------
>(snip)....I think any teacher
>who closes doors and limits options, either deliberately or out of
>ignorance, is guilty of gross incompetence, and prospective students should
>be made aware of that incompetence. This list is an ideal forum for such a
>valuable service.
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
>Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
>Appalachian Center for Crafts
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
2nd Annual Clayarters' Gallery details will be forth coming!!!
"An Outstanding Collection of Pottery Under One Roof"... A juried exhibit
Feel free to send comments or suggestions on how to make the second
exhibit a tremendous success
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT & Sun Afternoons at
1 PM EDT Private Room: Clayarters E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net
Talbott on thu 28 aug 97
Christopher...
"...Maybe I just don't 'get it.'..." I agree... you are missing the
point... If you disagree with someone, your professor in this case, then
you tell him or her in class or privately that you disagree. You don't
have to tell the whole world that you disagree with your professor's point
of view. I may have horrible breath but you don't have to tell everyone on
the Clayart list... you could instead just send me a bottle of Listerine or
Scope...(I personally prefer Scope) ..Marshall
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Marshall Talbot wrote:
>
>> but there is no reason to post the names of those who say foolish
>things
>
>and Tim Malm wrote:
>
>>I only asks, what is the point
>>of listing names if not to generate some outcome. What is/are the
>>outcomes. One is to cast a negative light on those who do not share my
>>beliefs. On this list, to accept anothers statements as documented
>>truth when it pertains to he said/she said issues is to possibly defame
>a
>>colleague. I call that a defacto blacklist.
>
>Excuse me, but I think it's odd to suggest that telling on someone who's
>doing something 'wrong' is a bad idea. What if I were shopping around
>for a university to go to that would satisfy several needs, one being
>the provision of a decent clay program? Wouldn't it be reasonable for
>me to receive the opinions of the students who've dealt with the faculty
>in question? Who is accepting the original opinion as documented
>truth? When I read that some glaze recipe causes a certain effect, I
>don't consider that the 'end all' of the truth either, I test it in my
>own kiln before accepting it.
>
>Doesn't calling it a blacklist suggest that we (whoever you think is
>involved in this blacklist conspiracy) have at least implied that we'd
>agree to devalue the members of the 'blacklist'? If some professor is
>maligning our (a)vocation, we have a right to know about the situation.
>The students also have a right to know the truth. Knowing the person's
>name and someone's negative opinion doesn't mean that I'm going to
>accept whatever is said as gospel, just that I might ask a few more
>questions before attending said classes.
>
>Maybe I just don't 'get it.'
>
>Christopher L. Weeks
>Columbia Missouri
1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
2nd Annual Clayarters' Gallery details will be forth coming!!!
"An Outstanding Collection of Pottery Under One Roof"... A juried exhibit
Feel free to send comments or suggestions on how to make the second
exhibit a tremendous success
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT & Sun Afternoons at
1 PM EDT Private Room: Clayarters E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net
Robert S. Bruch on fri 29 aug 97
If you were a high school senior and had an inkling that
you wanted to have a career in ceramics and had a choice
of attending two schools, which would you choose?
School A has a teacher who earns $50,000 by selling wares
and appeared to be helpful about the business aspects of
the ceramics world. School B has a teacher who was less
positive abouit the ease of earning a living in this
industry (realistic?) but had a methodology that would
better enable you to learn the art and the craft of clay.
Which school would you choose? I realize that most decisions
would not be that clear cut, but but what if it were.
I don't think that it is necessarily a bad idea to warn
people of the realistic economic pitfalls of earning a
living in clay. Maybe its the tone that ought to be
called into question.
--
Bob Bruch rsb8@po.cwru.edu
Carol Jackaway on fri 29 aug 97
Hi All,
I have been reading the thread on the "black list" subject and I guess its
time for my two cents.
I attended Phila Communtiy College (agreat ceramic program) and The
University of the Arts in Phila. Studied with Liz Stewart, Bill Daley, Larry
Donhue (for one year) and Mei-Ling Hom, Frank Gaydos,and Karen Aumann for
three years. All these people envoke, encourage, build comfidence and
generally help and encourage the continued persuit of clay. I am lucky I
never was told don't bother, you can't make it.
Since everything is based on how a instructor is perceved by the student,
a "black list" could injure an instructor based on one persons emotions.
Since the clay community as a whole is not on the list, a general no-no list
would be one sided.
A list on instructors and schools that worked for individual students
maybe a better idea. The professors name and a brief statment by the artist
about the education maybe a good idea. Again this is all based on individual
experience but at least the list would give the student help in postive
manner.
Well I guess this is really about four cents worth!
Carol Jackaway
Parkside Pa
CoilLady@aol.com
Chris Weeks on fri 29 aug 97
Talbott wrote:
> ----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
>
> Christopher...
>
> "...Maybe I just don't 'get it.'..." I agree... you are missing the
> point... If you disagree with someone, your professor in this case,
> then you tell him or her in class or privately that you disagree.
> You don't have to tell the whole world that you disagree with your
> professor's point of view. I may have horrible breath but you don't
> have to tell everyone on the Clayart list... you could instead just
> send me a bottle of Listerine or Scope...(I personally prefer Scope)
> ..Marshall
>
First, I'd like to say that I didn't notice any problems with your
breath this summer while enjoying your hospitality. ;-)
On a more serious note, when I disagree with my professors over
inconsequential or opinion-based matters, that is how I handle it. I,
and it seems they (often), enjoy having it out publicly.
If a professor has what I consider to be a grievously inappropriate
attitude toward either the subject being taught or through many other
educational concerns, however, I feel differently. A agree with Vince
that resources like this list are the perfect media for such discussion.
I would never let a friend of mine go into a class taught by one of
these people without hearing my opinon first.
Marshall, you also said:
> Publishing such a list would truly be disregarding the rights of
others
> and is socially and morally irresponsible... ...Marshall
Who originally suggested publishing a list? I think it came up as
something that shouldn't be done, and was only imagined that someone
suggested it was a good idea. I think that the original suggestion was
to post the name of the professor and the program that was defaming our
(a)vocation and potentially misinforming and 'hurting' lots of
students. Where would the harm come from in discussing this
disservice??
I see it as the same as telling someone that the 1985 Ford Escort that I
had for two years sucked. Have I really injured Ford? All I've done
(at most) is saved some consumers grief. Are you opposed to _Consumer
Reports_ or Ralph Nader's consumer advocacy? By the way, the car really
did suck!
Vince Pitelka wrote:
> When a university professor tells his or her students, over whom he or
> she is in a position of considerable influence, that you cannot make a
> living as a potter, it is a sad corruption of the teaching profession.
I agree entirely. I exist in an educational universe (work, go to grad
school, use university day-care, etc.), I have a degree in education,
and these ideas are dear to my heart. It angers me remembering twelve
years ago when a high-school councilor tried to tell me that I had taken
too many shop courses and that I was a college-prep student. I had to
get my parents to tell her where to go. Those seven years of various
'shop' courses continue to be more valuable by far than my four years of
math, or science, or English. And this discouraging faculty person is,
in my opinion, doing something far worse than was done to me. At least
I wasn't lied to.
Sincerely,
Christopher L. Weeks
Columbia Missouri
Sandra Dwiggins on fri 29 aug 97
Potting may be the "oldest profession"... okay, maybe be the 2nd oldest
profession....but it isn't the only profession at which it is difficult ot make
a living. Joe Herbert's comments were appropriate...artists in general
can't make a living at being artists. How about writing programs? How
many writing instructors say to their students...writing jobs are so easy
to get...you'll make a great living as a writer.
People in art programs should be told realistically that unless they want
to work for the "man"--i.e. take some education courses and try to teach
....it's a rough road out there. Many students have a romantic notion of
what the production potting life is about. Just the investment in
equipment and supplies to start a studio is incredibly expensive. And,
where does that initial money come from?
I'm not sure about the number of apprenticeships out there for graduates
to actually hone their throwing and business skills and get a taste of
what it means to run a business. There are many "entry level" positions
out there for architects, engineers, and MBA's. The U.S. doesn't have an
apprenticeship system, like some european countries do, that allow a
novice to become a master...except in the plumbing and electrical trades.
And these are trades....the ugly word...the "t" word....that this list tries
so hard to banish from use!
Earning a living means plying a trade of some sort. Writers are word
people..to earn a living they must write for any rag that is publishing and
paying---I know several who do this. But, they choose to ply their
writing trade rather than do other things. And they work hard at trying to
find the right market. Their product is written documents. Production
potters are the same--really small time--"cottage
industry"---manufacturers. And, one has to make that leap from
thinking of themselves as a one of a kind artist--to a manufacturer of
multiples if one wants to earn a living.
What's wrong with either telling students the truth or training them to be
successful in a trade? It seems that some people do not want to do
either of these.
Sandy
James Henry Gorman on fri 29 aug 97
i guess we should not have juried shows! let everbody in right!!
some people just do not have what it take to be a full time studio potter,
not
only does it take skill in clay,but also you need to be a sales person,
fix-it
person,book-keeper, good mental health,be your own boss and really push it!
OH I DID NOT BRING UP FAMILY!
tell your students this and let them decide , it is not a easy life i known i
have
been doing it for 25 yrs
jim gorman
McCoy, Jack Eugene on sat 30 aug 97
It seems to me that if we speak what we know to be true and not what we
suspect may be true, life would be simpler. Why can't we just say,
"Yes, it's possible to earn a living making pottery, but the odds are
tough."
No one can say with certainty how others will perform in their future
endeavors. They can only speculate.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-=-=-=
Jack McCoy
Systems Programmer
East Carolina University
Voice: (919) 328-6855
Fax: (919) 328-4258
email: mccoyj@mail.ecu.edu
Hluch - Kevin A. on sat 30 aug 97
"Why do you think we started the pottery instructor blacklist in the
first place?" Thomas asked his newly released apprentice.
Not wanting to be thought a fool even though he was still, after all,
only an apprentice, Gavin replied in a voice suddenly unsure of the truth
of his words, "To lessen the appreciation of utilitarian pottery as an
art form?"
"Precisely!" Thomas gleefully replied.
Already Gavin he was beginning to loose the courage of his recently
newfound convictions concerning the falsity of the revolution. Why DID he
come this Board Meeting of the AGPG in the first place?
"I think I'm beginning to understand," Gavin timidly ventured.
"How else could we hammer the nail in the coffin of THAT particular
form of expression except by producing a blacklist of potters who would
NEVER get any significant fellowship awards from the Arts Progress
Administration!" Thomas thundered. Murmurs of approval could be
heard softly snaking and snickering around the monstrous oak table.
"Potters don't make art. Potters don't create significant
aesthetic expressions...Potters make DOMESTIC WARE, you idiot! - Hell,
potters can't EVEN MAKE A LIVING!" Thomas was shouting now. And a fleck of
spittle whizzed past Gavin's ear. He was sitting too close, obviously.
"How, in God's name, could they possible think that POTTERS could be
eligible for a grant from the Arts Progress Administration? Gavin could
tell that Thomas was on a roll.
"We have finally oriented the system of higher education to the
proper plane -- towards art, with a capital A. We've leveled the playing
field," Thomas added slyly.
Continuing, the big kahuna queried, "I ask you, fellow board
members, where can you go to get an education in pottery today?"
Quizzical looks were furtively exchanged around the wood paneled
hall. Heads averted. Sidelong glances made. There were no faces eager to
volunteer an answer.
Thomas, burrowing into Gavin with narrowed eyes, "I'll tell you, my
sweet boy... Apply to Nowhere College and Podunk U. And you can study
with Herr Professor Unknown-By-Anybody-in-the-Art World, by the way"! he
bellowed.
Acknowledging the howls of affirmation and squeals of delight from
his audience Thomas added, "And you can thank that blacklist I started
way, way back in the seventies! Thomas surveyed the room, looking pleased
with himself.
As if by Thomas's command, Gavin could begin to feel the hairs on the
back of his neck slowly, surely, and one by one stand on end. "Without
a doubt, this guy is a prick," he thought.
Kevin A. Hluch
102 E. 8th St.
Frederick, MD 21701
USA
e-mail: kahluch@umd5.umd.edu
http://www.erols.com/mhluch/mudslinger.html
On Wed, 27 Aug 1997, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> At 08:52 AM 8/26/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >Greetings from Seattle:
> >
> >Here's one professor of art who fundamentally believes that becoming a
> >potter and boing business as one is certainly possible and I tell my
> >students this but concerning listing names, I only asks, what is the point
> >of listing names if not to generate some outcome. What is/are the
> >outcomes. One is to cast a negative light on those who do not share my
> >beliefs. On this list, to accept anothers statements as documented
> >truth when it pertains to he said/she said issues is to possibly defame a
> >colleague. I call that a defacto blacklist.
> >Tim Malm
> >Assoc. Prof. of Art, Seattle Pacific University
> >Pres. Washington Potters Assoc.
>
> I don't know what else I can say about this. If there are ceramics faculty
> out there who are telling their students that making pottery as a profession
> is an unrealistic goal, people on this list should know who and where they
> are. That's common sense and a valuable service. How in the world can you
> possibly compare that to a blacklist??
> - Vince
>
>
>
> Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
> Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
> Appalachian Center for Crafts
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
>
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