Wilkinson on sun 31 aug 97
Of late there has been some mention of people interested in purchasing used
electric kilns. From our experience, I would like to share something we
learned when we purchased our first kiln - a used electric kiln. Be sure
to check the fire brick carefully for cracks. A kiln with cracked brick
may have worked great for the previous owner but after you move it it often
times cracks and crumbles a lot more especially if the previous owner had
to do any pinning. Each firing of a kiln with cracked brick due to
jostling it around during the move, seems to cause it to deteriorate more
rapidly which can cause element problems which effects the firings, cost of
electricity, outcome of the finished product and ones sanity. ;-) From
our experience we concluded that as beginners we should have gotten a new
kiln. It would have saved us a lot of headaches and in the long run $$$.
Lori Wilkinson
Roswell, NM
Arnold Howard on mon 9 jul 07
From: "nanspin@gmail.com"
I will have to
> set up a new breaker in my box, run wire, and install a
> receptacle
Will you ever want a larger kiln later? If so, install
circuit wire heavy enough to handle it even though the
smaller kiln may require a lighter gauge wire.
Would
> being in an unheated detached garage, unused, for a few
> years do any damage
> to a kiln?
High humidity may corrode the wiring and steel parts. You
can tell by examining the case and opening the switch box.
Otherwise the unheated garage should not hurt the kiln.
My biggest concern with this one is that the
> firebrick in the lid is starting to crumble near the
> handle,
As long as the broken firebrick is toward the handle and
does not extend into the firing chamber, it will not cause
dusting inside the kiln.
> but would it be dangerous to have it on concrete pavers on
> the wooden
> floor?
That is a good question for L&L. They are very sensitive
about kiln installation.
You should place the kiln on the stand that was designed for
it. UL testing is done with the kiln on that stand. Heat
from the kiln, even with the stand, may damage the wooden
floor.
is it possible to
> retrofit a venting system that can exhaust through the old
> chimney?
Could you install a dryer duct there? That is how a
downdraft vent such as the Orton is installed. You will need
a way to reach the outside just like you would with a dryer.
The chimney sounds like a good idea.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
nanspin@gmail.com on mon 9 jul 07
Greetings!
First of all, I'd like to thank a great many of you for your posts - I'm
just a hobby potter, but the information I've gleaned from the archives and
on-list has been invaluable. My "studio" is not quite set up yet, since all
I have is a bucket of slurry and a boxful of tools -- but I'm saving up for
a wheel and I have a great opportunity to purchase a used kiln.
Therein lies my reason for posting. The seller - who has a shop not far
from me - has 4 kilns, but only uses 2 of them on a regular basis. The
third is in her basement as well, and is used occasionally for glazing. The
fourth is in her garage (purchased as part of another studio buy-out). She
has offered me my choice of the latter two. Both are old manual L&L
EconoKilns with Kiln Sitters but no limit timers. Either way I will have to
set up a new breaker in my box, run wire, and install a receptacle - so
that's not a consideration when making my decision. Also, the clay I have
is ^04-05, so it's not like I *need* a ^10 kiln right now.
Kiln "A" is a J18, 23 amps. She said it worked when she got it, but has
been in her garage for a while (there are quite a few cobwebs on the
outside). The firebrick and elements all look good, and she also noted that
she'd fire a test load to make sure that it worked to the proper cone before
selling it to me for $50. I'm leaning toward this one, if it works. Would
being in an unheated detached garage, unused, for a few years do any damage
to a kiln?
Kiln "B" is a ....it looks like K18 or X18, the label was hard to read
because of low lighting and it had started to peel away from the metal
housing, but I can't find any record of such a model number made by L&L (I
know there was an X1818, but I could swear there were no other
numbers...could be wrong, though). 20 amps, and smaller than the J18, but
this one definitely works. My biggest concern with this one is that the
firebrick in the lid is starting to crumble near the handle, and I'm not
sure if that's easily/cheaply replaceable. This one she'd sell to me for
$40.
Also, where the kiln will be, the floor is concrete on one half, hardwood on
the other half. I know the manufacturers tell you to put it on concrete,
but would it be dangerous to have it on concrete pavers on the wooden
floor? The concrete half also has a hole in the wall that vents to a
chimney (this building used to be an old tin shop) - is it possible to
retrofit a venting system that can exhaust through the old chimney? Is it
even recommended? Neither of them has any kind of vent system attached.
She's got her kilns in a separate room with a fan in the window, but I won't
have that luxury. Mine will be in a separate building from my home, but in
an open workshop space. I know the general consensus is "vent it, no matter
what," and I've gotten some ideas from the archives, but any other
info/ideas/input would be most appreciated.
Thanks,
Nancy
Anne Doyle on tue 10 jul 07
Hi Nancy,
first of all, welcome on board!
Lucky you, an L&L kiln for $50!! OMG! I would jump on the chance! I would
also have no hesitations about which one to take, a crumbling lid is a
whole series of frustrations waiting to happen and believe me, you don't
want to go there... having been there not too long ago, it was not a good
place to be. So definitely i would get the one with the better condition
lid. In fact, i would probably buy both, keeping the second one for future
use and knowing i would have to change the lid for a bit of $$ later
on ... it could still be used for bisque just no glazing... you could
always convert one for raku later on...
An unheated garage is fine i think as long as moisture didn't get into the
circuits and elements look good. Plus since she's offered to test run the
kiln for you its a good deal... what am i saying, an amazing deal!!
If you're doing low-fire work now and have this opportunity, i would go
for it...
Q: Do you know if its 3" brick or 2=BD"?
You may one day want to go to ^6 and with a used L&L you've got a pretty
sure thing there... i think there are sonme smaller models of Jupiter
series (J-18?) that only go to ^5 but you can find that info on their
website, www.hotkilns.com
I have no shares in the company, yadayadayada, etc, insert discalaimer
here, just a happy customer....
Good luck,
Anne, in Saint-Sauveur
nanspin-AT-gmail on wed 11 jul 07
On 7/9/07, Arnold Howard wrote:
>
> Will you ever want a larger kiln later? If so, install
> circuit wire heavy enough to handle it even though the
> smaller kiln may require a lighter gauge wire.
Excellent thought. My "dream kiln" would require 6 gauge wire, whereas this
would only need 10 --according to the specs, I'd need a double 30 (60) amp
breaker either way. I might have to swap out the actual receptacle later on,
but that would be easier than running wire again! :)
High humidity may corrode the wiring and steel parts. You
> can tell by examining the case and opening the switch box.
> Otherwise the unheated garage should not hurt the kiln.
I will definitely check it out!
My biggest concern with this one is that the
> > firebrick in the lid is starting to crumble near the
> > handle,
>
> As long as the broken firebrick is toward the handle and
> does not extend into the firing chamber, it will not cause
> dusting inside the kiln.
No, the chipped firebrick is on the outside.
You should place the kiln on the stand that was designed for
> it. UL testing is done with the kiln on that stand. Heat
> from the kiln, even with the stand, may damage the wooden
> floor.
Both of them have the original metal stands. My husband and I purchased a
"pad" for our pellet stove, to protect the floor -- would something like
that be recommended to protect the wooden floor? It's not in perfect shape
to begin with, but I'd rather not make it worse...and I definitely don't
want to start a fire.
is it possible to
> > retrofit a venting system that can exhaust through the old
> > chimney?
>
> Could you install a dryer duct there? That is how a
> downdraft vent such as the Orton is installed. You will need
> a way to reach the outside just like you would with a dryer.
> The chimney sounds like a good idea.
I don't know. The hole in the wall is about 10" wide; I'd probably need to
put something around it to take up the excess space. I do have an extra
flexible dryer exhaust hose -- could I use that, or do I need something that
will take a higher temperature??
Thanks!!
-Nancy
Arnold Howard on wed 11 jul 07
From: "nanspin-AT-gmail"
My husband and I purchased a
> "pad" for our pellet stove, to protect the floor -- would
> something like
> that be recommended to protect the wooden floor?
It is difficult to answer your question from afar, because
the answer depends on room temperature, whether you monitor
your kiln during firing, and other conditions.
I do have an extra
> flexible dryer exhaust hose -- could I use that, or do I
> need something that
> will take a higher temperature??
Downdraft vents do not all use the same size ductwork. The
new Orton Vent Master uses a 2" high-temperature duct. Their
earlier vent used a standard aluminum dryer duct.
The plastic dryer ducts don't last long. The one I bought
recently is metallic-looking plastic, which was the only
type the store carried. My cats have torn a hole in it by
jumping over it. Aluminum would be better.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
nanspin-AT-gmail on wed 11 jul 07
On 7/11/07, Arnold Howard wrote:
>
> It is difficult to answer your question from afar, because
> the answer depends on room temperature, whether you monitor
> your kiln during firing, and other conditions.
Room temp: varies. There is no heating system in the shop, and cooling
depends on windows and ceiling fans. It can get pretty hot in there during
summer and rather chilly in the winter unless a space heater is used. If I
end up spending more time out there, we'll invest in some insulation....
Monitoring kiln: I will, if I should; I won't, if I don't have to. Though I
probably will the first few times, regardless, just out of the novelty of
it. I've never owned a kiln before - it's always belonged to the school!
Thanks again,
Nancy
Earl Krueger on wed 11 jul 07
Nancy,
My "new" studio is an old, old house with wood floors. Until I get a
new kiln building made of concrete and steel my solution to keep the
kiln heat from the wood floor was to go to the auto parts store and
buy two shiny galvanized oil drip pans about 2' X 2 1/2'. Plus I
scrounged four bricks from a building demolition site.
I put one drip pan down on the floor and laid four bricks on it where the
metal kiln stand legs would normally be. Then I put the second drip pan
on top of the bricks. At this point I have a metal-brick-metal sandwich.
I then put the kiln stand on top of the sandwich making sure that there
was a brick of the sandwich centered underneath each leg. And then
the kiln went on top of it all.
The oil pans reflect a lot of the heat away from the floor and the air
space between the two allows air to flow through and carry more of
the heat away. This seems to work for me, but I won't fire the kiln
with this setup unless I can be around to keep a close eye on it.
Earl Krueger
Elmira, Oregon, usa
Anne Doyle on thu 12 jul 07
As for the monitoring... i think you must.
I never trust that the time it took to reach ^ will be the same for 2
loads. Fluctuations in power, amount of ware in the kiln, staggering of
shelves, air flow, air pulling through the vent, all can vary and affect
the outcome in a significant way.
I have an Easy-fire and i still put cones and have cones all over the kiln
so i know how hot it got in various parts, it always varies and not always
as predictable as i thought. The bottom is not always the coolest area.
I always am here when the kiln is on and especially watchful near the end
so i can shut down the vent and plug up the peephole.
There are no easy buttons for firings...
In the end, the extra effort will teach you and the result will be
knowledge, and thats pretty priceless...
Anne, in Saint-Sauveur where the sun is shining and i am off to the
laundromat to wash the sleeping bags in prep for the great camping
expedition!!
William & Susan Schran User on thu 12 jul 07
On 7/11/07 4:27 PM, "nanspin-AT-gmail" wrote:
> Monitoring kiln: I will, if I should; I won't, if I don't have to. Though I
> probably will the first few times, regardless, just out of the novelty of
> it. I've never owned a kiln before - it's always belonged to the school!
Monitoring the kiln: You should, you will!
You will also use witness cones!
You will not use a Kilnsitter to shut the kiln off for you!
You will hook up a direct vent system!
You will learn to do it right! ;^)
Ok, enough ranting, get back to work.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
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