Doug Gray on fri 25 oct 96
Michelle
You will probably get as many suggestions as there are members of this
list. My advice is to try them all and see what works best for you.
When I center, I try to keep both wrists straight at all times. If you
feel either wrist bending back to create a ninty degree angle, you are
stressing the joint and whis will eventually cause wrists problems years
down the road.
I center with my left hand on top, pushing down and my right hand along
the right side of the clay, pulling toward myself. Push down with the
heal of your left hand and pull toward you with the finger tips of your
right hand.
If the clay flattens out too much, let up on your left hand (top). If
the clay gets taller and taller, push harder from the top.
It seems that my students catch on quickly when I help them center by
pushing on their hands. They realize how much pressure you can apply to
the clay with out messing it up. They are also usually surprised how
much you can do with just your finger tips. Don't worry about how
strong your hands are. If you lock your finger inplace, you can lean
back with your entire upper body. This way it doesn't require any super
human muscle strength in your wrists or hands.
I hope this helps.
Doug Gray
Alpine, TX
June Perry on fri 25 oct 96
First start with well wedged clay. Improperly wedged clay is impossible to
center.
Keep your elbows braced tight against your body. This helps keep your hands
stable and also assists in having a bit more power for centering.
Use ample water so your hands aren't pulling and twisting the clay.
When you feel like you have centered, or need to release your hands to apply
more water, it is very important to not pull your hands away too rapidly.
This can throw your clay off center. When you are ready to pull your hands
away, just gently release the pressure from your fingers and hands and then
pull your hands away.
Hope this helps!
Regards,
June
Joyce Lee..........Jim Lee on fri 25 oct 96
I was fortunate enough to experience a wonderful teacher and an excellent
mentor who each emphasized that mostly I just needed to work, work, work
in order to improve......and then work, work some more. Even after
toiling diligently, however, I still had too many sessions where walls
weren't what I hoped for, much less rims, and I hammered more pots than I
kept. UNTIL, that is, I propped a mirror in front of my wheel. (I think
I read this idea on Clayart.) That was weeks ago and I haven't had a
really badly centered pot since. (There was a temporary and minimal
distraction when I looked up to see my reflection so often....gave me
many startled pauses.) Great idea! Thank you to whomever. The nicest
part is that I can now concentrate on my many other areas of
less-than-strengths.
Joyce
Windy Mojave
mel jacobson on fri 25 oct 96
just an addition to the discussion on centering....depending on the wheel
used it is often forgotten to suggest to new potters to use the leg muscles.
if you use a sit down wheel such as brent etc. the legs can be used to do
most of the work. as one advances past little balls of clay and into rather
large pieces it is imperative to push with the left knee into a braced left
elbow or forearm/// this technique also helps reduce the pressure on the
wrists. AND ABOVE ALL do not let left handed potters spin the wheel
backward... we in america are all right handed on a wheel... letting lefties
spin backwards just compounds problems later. (i am a lefty and i know of
what i speak...i tried to throw backwards in Japan and it drove me crazy.. i
had to reverse the belts on my wheel and get back to western throwing.)
i was always very proud of my teaching when i would watch a little, 110
pound girl center 20 pounds of clay with her leg with absolutely no
effort...then teach a 260 pound boy how to do it.... pass it on... it never
hurts. mel jacobson/ from minnesota/ it is very nice to read aesthetic
thoughts on clayart.
Sherri Borges on sat 26 oct 96
I have to disagree about the point you make regarding throwing clockwise
versus counter clockwise. I'm right-handed, and tried for months to learn
how to throw with the wheel going counter clockwise. For whatever reason,
I wanted to have my right hand inside the pot, and therefor needed to have
the wheel going "the wrong way". Changing the direction made the world of
difference for me. The point is, you have to do what's comfortable for you
-- who cares which way the wheel goes.
In terms of centering, I agree that using your body really helps. I brace
my left elbow against my left hip bone to stabilize, right hand down
straight from above. Works wonders for me.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: centering
Author: Ceramic Arts Discussion List at SMTPLINK
Date: 10/25/96 2:54 PM
----------------------------Original message---------------------------- just
an addition to the discussion on centering....depending on the wheel used it
is often forgotten to suggest to new potters to use the leg muscles. if you
use a sit down wheel such as brent etc. the legs can be used to do most of
the work. as one advances past little balls of clay and into rather large
pieces it is imperative to push with the left knee into a braced left elbow
or forearm/// this technique also helps reduce the pressure on the wrists.
AND ABOVE ALL do not let left handed potters spin the wheel backward... we in
america are all right handed on a wheel... letting lefties spin backwards
just compounds problems later. (i am a lefty and i know of what i speak...i
tried to throw backwards in Japan and it drove me crazy.. i had to reverse
the belts on my wheel and get back to western throwing.)
i was always very proud of my teaching when i would watch a little, 110
pound girl center 20 pounds of clay with her leg with absolutely no
effort...then teach a 260 pound boy how to do it.... pass it on... it never
hurts. mel jacobson/ from minnesota/ it is very nice to read aesthetic
thoughts on clayart.
CP Dunbar on sat 26 oct 96
Joyce,
What does the mirror do. I have seen them in mags on other peoples
tables but had no earthly idea what for.
thanx, cp
--
"And she shall have music wherever my Lady goes."
cpdunbar@concentric.net
Joyce Lee..........Jim Lee on sun 27 oct 96
CP Dunbar wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Joyce,
> What does the mirror do. I have seen them in mags on other peoples
> tables but had no earthly idea what for.
>
> thanx, cp
> --
> "And she shall have music wherever my Lady goes."
>
> cpdunbar@concentric.netCP,
Remember I'm pretty much a novice so what applies to me may not mean much
to a potter with more experience. BUT, for me, I get a much better view
of what is actually happening with the pot as I center, pull up walls,
and shape. Otherwise, in looking down on the pot, or simply at the right
side as I throw, my perspective is more limited than working with the
mirror. For example, I can see more clearly bulges and lopsided areas
and irregular rims in the mirror. Also, on a flared bowl, looking down
or to the righthand side, without the mirror, it looks as if the flare is
distinct and that the bowl narrows toward the bottom. In the mirror I
can see that the bottom isn't nearly as narrow as I thought, and is much
thicker, and that the rim doesn't flare out as much as I intended. What I
really see more clearly is exactly how much clay I'm moving up with each
pull so that my pots are less thick now.
I'll pay more attention while throwing and give you more information if
you want it.
Joyce
Windywindywindy
Dave and Pat Eitel on sun 27 oct 96
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Joyce,
>What does the mirror do. I have seen them in mags on other peoples
>tables but had no earthly idea what for.
>
>thanx, cp
>--
>"And she shall have music wherever my Lady goes."
>
>cpdunbar@concentric.net
cp--
I'm not Joyce, but as I've been using a mirror for many years, I'd like to
respond. Setting a mirror up near your wheel so you can look at your form
in it has the same effect as getting up from the wheel and stepping back a
few steps to you can see the whole form of your piece. It gives a much
different perspective than bending your head sideways and looking at it.
My forms improved a great deal after I started using a mirror, particularly
curves and placement of breaks in the form--changes in direction, etc. I
also use it when placing spouts and handles on certain forms.
If you look like me, you don't have a problem looking at yourself instead
of the pot! After a while, use of the mirror becomes second nature.
Later...Dave
Dave Eitel
Cedar Creek Pottery
Cedarburg, WI
daveitel@execpc.com
http://www.digivis.com/CedarCreek/home.html
Jeremy/Bonnie Hellman on sun 27 oct 96
Hello clayarters--
My experience was different that CP Dunbar's. If I didn't take the time to
completely and accurately center the clay, the pots either didn't work at a
larger size or became prime candidates for "uglypot of the week". BTW you
can tell when your lump of clay is centered not only by feel, but also by
turning the wheel and bcking off to watch it spin. If you see movement as
the wheel is spinning, your clay is not compeltely centered. Bonnie in
Pittsburgh, PA
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>All previous notes are w/ merit. Read and absorb them all. We all answer
>like the proverbial three blind men describing an elephant as a rope, wall,etc.
>We are all right in our perspective and you must find your own.
>
>I hated learning how to center, and later found that it did not matter as much
>as the pot. So i threw a little off center, and quit worrying about it.
>My needle tool did more work then. It still does a lot now.(Incidentally,
>the po
>matters far less than the throwing, and the throwing matters less than
>that you are a potter. ;)
>
>I did figure out that it was much easier to center if one remembers
>constantly the law of conservation of mass. Simply
>put, if you push in toward the center with one hand you must be
>ready w/ the other hand to allow for the elevation in height to
>accomodate this. Conversly the oposite is also true. When one moves from
>a tall cone to a short tuna fish can shape you push down with the top hand.
>You must be ready to accomodate the increase in width with the other hand
>and yet keep the clay centered. It is all height vs. width and nothing
>more mystical than that. When we all say practice makes it easier, we are
>all correct. Usually this practice is where your hands learn to automatically
>accomodate height vs. width.
>
>But as many before have said, do not get hung up on the picky
>parts of pottery, so that you do not have fun. We have all thrown
>off center ware that turned out quite beautiful, and over time centering
>becomes second nature.
>
>goodnite,love,and just have fun. ........cp :)
>
>--
>"And she shall have music wherever the lady goes."
>
>cpdunbar@concentric.net
Dave Schiman on sun 27 oct 96
CP Dunbar wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Joyce,
> What does the mirror do. I have seen them in mags on other peoples
> tables but had no earthly idea what for.
>
> thanx, cp
> --
> "And she shall have music wherever my Lady goes."
>
> cpdunbar@concentric.net
Hi CP: I have used a mirror now for some time. I find it a very helpful
tool. Have you ever removed your piece from the wheel, set it on the
table and it looks totally different than you thought? Or have you ever
had to get up from the wheel to get a good look at your shape or
virtually stand on your head to get the perspective that you want? Well,
the mirror does all these things for you. In the right position, the
mirror gives you a clear view of what your piece looks like while still
on the wheel. You can tell immediately if you are crooked or not, if you
need to shape some more, or if your proportions are correct.
Position the mirror opposite your wheel so that you have a full view your
work. The only drawback is that you have to look at yourself all day and
some days it ain't pretty.
Hope that answered your question.
Janice Schiman
Moose Jaw, Sask. Canada
Louise Jenks on mon 28 oct 96
In a message dated 96-10-25 17:23:57 EDT, you write:
<<
When you feel like you have centered, or need to release your hands to apply
more water, it is very important to not pull your hands away too rapidly.
This can throw your clay off center. When you are ready to pull your hands
away, just gently release the pressure from your fingers and hands and then
pull your hands away.
>>
When releasing the centered clay or a pot in process, Exhale, then release
your hands. It helps in the gentleness of release.
Louise in rainy Cincinnati
Terrance Lazaroff on mon 28 oct 96
Dave, you are absolutly correct about the mirror. I have heard that
setting a mirror in front of your wheel allows you to look at the piece from
the level of the wheel head. I have also set up a large dressing mirror
infront of my wheel and I am greatly pleased with the results.
The only glitch is that the mirror gets dirty. I splash.
Terrance F. Lazaroff
St-Hubet, Quebec, CANADA !!!!
CaroleER@aol.com on mon 28 oct 96
My first wheel instructor was a man (probly still is!). Anyway, I could not
center the way he taught. My next instructor was (and is) a woman. She
taught me to 'throw like a girl' - meaning I use my body rather than the
upper body strength. I tuck my left elbow into my hip and lean into the clay
while relaxing my shoulder muscles. As soon as I tried this technique, the
clay settled right down.
Also, as others have stated - the better you wedge, the easier it is to
center.
Carole Rishel
Bastrop, TX
CaroleER@aol.com
Tamsin A. Whitehead on mon 28 oct 96
On Sat, 26 Oct 1996, CP Dunbar wrote:
> I hated learning how to center, and later found that it did not matter as much
> as the pot. So i threw a little off center, and quit worrying about it.
> My needle tool did more work then. It still does a lot
now.(Incidentally, the po
> matters far less than the throwing, and the throwing matters less than
> that you are a potter. ;)
>
I have been experiencing the same thing for the last couple of years
while learning to throw. I too have/had decided that it is not
necessary to have truly centered clay to make a good pot (I am still in
dispute about this with teachers and fellow students). However, not
centering properly has led me into making mostly altered forms, as my
somewhat wobbly profiled pots cry out for pushing this a little further,
or for embellishment to draw the eye away from "imperfections"! I do
throw some perfectly centered pots also, and tend to leave these alone.
The funny thing is that on the whole everyone likes my wobbly ones better!
In my case, the imperfect arouses more creativity. Hmmm.
Recently however, I have been wanting to make much larger things on the
wheel, and this is definitely much more difficult with uncentered clay so
I am "relearning" how to center, and would like to pass on a couple of
things just recently learned that have helped me a great deal:
Try throwing using slurry instead of water - it leaves the clay much
stronger and therefore easier to use throughout the whole throwing process.
If you are raising the clay into a cone and then pushing it down again a
number of times during the centering process, try to establish the width
of the base that you are going to want at the beginning of the process and
then try not to alter it - if you are pushing clay at the bottom in and
then out and
then in again, slurry or clay softened by water can be pushed into the
base creating a weakness encouraging the clay to off-center at the base
or causing slumping of the wall at a later stage of throwing.
Wedge, wedge, wedge, wedge!
Tamsin
Nottingham, NH
USA
Christine Davis on wed 30 oct 96
This may be a dumb question, and I certainly have the idea now that proper
wedging is necessary for centering, but can anyone tell me WHY?
Richard Burkett on wed 30 oct 96
Carol Rishel says:
>My first wheel instructor was a man (probly still is!). Anyway, I could not
>center the way he taught. My next instructor was (and is) a woman. She
>taught me to 'throw like a girl' - meaning I use my body rather than the
>upper body strength.
Well, I'm not sure where that leaves some of us in regard to gender. I've
always taught my students to use their body mass as much as possible when
throwing. I've always thought the same method worked pretty well for me, too.
Let's not make blatant sexist generalizations here, okay?
Richard Burkett - School of Art, Design, & A.H, SDSU, San Diego, CA 92182-4805
E-mail: richard.burkett@sdsu.edu <-> Voice mail: (619) 594-6201
Home Page: http://rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/rburkett/www/burkett.html
CeramicsWeb: http://apple.sdsu.edu/ceramicsweb/index.html
Don Jones on wed 30 oct 96
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>This may be a dumb question, and I certainly have the idea now that proper
>wedging is necessary for centering, but can anyone tell me WHY?
When you apply pressure on uneven hardnesses or bubbles, that pressure will
be distributed unevenly or the bubble will actually move back and forth,
making centering impossible
Don Jones
claysky@highfiber.com
Kenneth D. Westfall on wed 30 oct 96
At 12:36 PM 10/30/96 +0000, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>This may be a dumb question, and I certainly have the idea now that proper
>wedging is necessary for centering, but can anyone tell me WHY?
>
The best answer I can give is that unwedged clay has alot of air bubbles
trapped in it. As you try to center the clay those air bubble work just
like squeezing a balloon. You squeeze the clay to center it and the air
pushs clay out somewhere else.
Kenneth
DON'T GET STUCK IN THE MUDPIES--K & T
Bob Howell on wed 30 oct 96
Wedging is necessary to centering, and maintaining center for two reasons.
1. To remove air pockets from the clay.
2. To make the clay more consistent so that there are no harder or
softer spots.
Without wedging it's still possible to throw the clay, but much more difficult.
Bob
bobhowell@linknet.net
At 07:36 AM 10/30/96 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>This may be a dumb question, and I certainly have the idea now that proper
>wedging is necessary for centering, but can anyone tell me WHY?
>
Tom Buck on wed 30 oct 96
CD: Clay is composed of flat platelike particles, sort of a deck of
"cards", and in the raw state the "cards" are on edge, randomly spaced.
So, wedging is done to align the "cards" (or most of them) in one main
direction, along the path of the wedging spiral. When the "cards" are so
ordered, the ball of clay will deform more easily with pressure from the
hands. That is, it will be easier to throw.
Cheers TomB Hamilton ON Canada URL http://digitalfire.com/magic/tombuck.htm
Katherine Villyard on wed 30 oct 96
On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Richard Burkett wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> Carol Rishel says:
> >My first wheel instructor was a man (probly still is!). Anyway, I could not
> >center the way he taught. My next instructor was (and is) a woman. She
> >taught me to 'throw like a girl' - meaning I use my body rather than the
> >upper body strength.
>
> Well, I'm not sure where that leaves some of us in regard to gender. I've
> always taught my students to use their body mass as much as possible when
> throwing. I've always thought the same method worked pretty well for me, too.
> Let's not make blatant sexist generalizations here, okay?
That was a blatant sexist generalization? Maybe I missed the part where
she said that either boys or girls can't throw. In fact, I'm having
trouble telling whether you think her comment is offensive to men or to
women--maybe you could enlighten me.
Katherine in Denton, TX
Sam Cuttell on wed 30 oct 96
At 07:41 AM 10/30/96 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>Carol Rishel says:
>>My first wheel instructor was a man (probly still is!). Anyway, I could not
>>center the way he taught. My next instructor was (and is) a woman. She
>>taught me to 'throw like a girl' - meaning I use my body rather than the
>>upper body strength.
>
>Well, I'm not sure where that leaves some of us in regard to gender. I've
>always taught my students to use their body mass as much as possible when
>throwing. I've always thought the same method worked pretty well for me, too.
>Let's not make blatant sexist generalizations here, okay?
>
>Richard Burkett
Richard:
I have to side here with Carol. I had the *exact* same experience. My 1st
teacher (and every male teacher since then) had their elbows away from their
body and _simply_ pushed the clay mass into the centre. Needless to say I
learned nothing in my 1st 10 week course.
The 2nd course was with a woman who braced her elbows into her thighs and
PUSHED the clay towards the centre of the wheel. Revelation!!
The point of this note is to re-enforce to those male teachers out there
that while some women may be able to centre through upper body strength, the
majority of us need to be taught to utilize our body while centering/throwing.
sam - alias the cat lady
Home of Manx cats, Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and the odd horse
Melbourne, Ontario, CANADA
(SW Ontario)
http://www.geocities.com/paris/3110
Don Sanami on thu 31 oct 96
Even poorly wedged clay may be centered.In fact a great many potters
thoughout the world,(at least in my experience)have very poor clay for
throwing.In much of Nigeria,(Rivers State for example) I have watched
village women throw clay on a primitive 'wheel',so poor we would throw it
out. But,under these conditions have come many lovely pots,for
centuries.We are badly spoiled and often to our disadvantage, by having
bodies so smooth they offer no challenge and the final product is made
colorful to hide the bland body. My feeling is that,no matter how well
the clay is wedged before throwing,it should be wedged on the wheel up
and down several times,to alighn a high percentage of the clay.Don.On
Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Don Jones wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >This may be a dumb question, and I certainly have the idea now that proper
> >wedging is necessary for centering, but can anyone tell me WHY?
>
> When you apply pressure on uneven hardnesses or bubbles, that pressure will
> be distributed unevenly or the bubble will actually move back and forth,
> making centering impossible
>
> Don Jones
> claysky@highfiber.com
>
Bob Kavanagh on fri 1 nov 96
There are several reasons for wedging to help throwing but it is not always
necessary to wedge by any means. Traditionally wedging helped elminate air
and more fully integrate the clay; there are those who think that spiral
wedging (kneading in circular fashion), helps align particles in a manner
which facilitates wheel work (which also goes in circle).
I wedge now only when I use pugged clay which has been sitting for a long
time, for large pieces and for reclaiming my slop.
In the first case, pugged clay sitting for along time, I wedge only because
the clay seems to "set" a little with time, and I want to undo the rigidity
of the lines of the box, surface etc. because they are of a slightly
different consistency than the inner part of the bung; they give me a bit
of hassle when my fingers push or pull at them. The clay is slightly
uneven in consistency and more difficult to control easily. Large pieces
(e.g., 10 pounds or more) has the same problem because I use clay from
different bungs or because the large bung has different consistencies and
densities. Reclaiming slop is fairly obvious; it's just like mud with no
internal cohesion.
If you gave moderately freshly pugged clay (with no air) it's fairly easy
just to throw it as it is without wedging.
bob kavanagh (60 km west of montreal)
Akita-jin \"Lee Love\" on fri 1 nov 96
The main reason for wedging is to make the clay uniform and to get rid
of air pockets. Some folks that pug their clay wedge very little. Only
enough to make the proper cone to put on the wheelhead.
Lee
--
====================================================
/(o\ Lee Love In "St. Paul", MN ' Come see some pixs of my AkitaPup:
\o)/ mailto:LeeLove@millcomm.com ' http://www.millcomm.com/~leelove
Celine.Gura@alz.org on fri 1 nov 96
First off:
I would like to thank the clayart spirits that magically resubscribed me to the
list after a year of being off! :-)
Secondly, in regards to women throwing and centering I know that I have had to
learn to use my upper body differently in centering than other men and women due
to two things in my way--my breasts! I have had women in my classes that have
had the same problem. But not to be sexist I wonder if there are other things
that get in the way(stomachs?). So I definitely think that some women will
learn and center differently due to this.
Celine Gura
P. Jaine Jacobs on sat 2 nov 96
There are two tips I've given throwers having trouble centering that they've
said were most helpful, and I've not yet seen them in this thread:
1. Be centered in your person
2. Close your eyes
Yours in clay,
Jaine in Cresskill on a fine, sunny Halloween
Kirk Morrison on sat 2 nov 96
On 30 Oct 96 at 22:46, Sam Cuttell wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> At 07:41 AM 10/30/96 EST, you wrote:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >
> >Carol Rishel says:
> >>My first wheel instructor was a man (probly still is!). Anyway, I could not
> >>center the way he taught. My next instructor was (and is) a woman. She
> >>taught me to 'throw like a girl' - meaning I use my body rather than the
> >>upper body strength.
> >
> >Well, I'm not sure where that leaves some of us in regard to gender. I've
> >always taught my students to use their body mass as much as possible when
> >throwing. I've always thought the same method worked pretty well for me, too.
> >Let's not make blatant sexist generalizations here, okay?
> >
> >Richard Burkett
>
>
> Richard:
>
> I have to side here with Carol. I had the *exact* same experience. My 1st
> teacher (and every male teacher since then) had their elbows away from their
> body and _simply_ pushed the clay mass into the centre. Needless to say I
> learned nothing in my 1st 10 week course.
>
> The 2nd course was with a woman who braced her elbows into her thighs and
> PUSHED the clay towards the centre of the wheel. Revelation!!
>
> The point of this note is to re-enforce to those male teachers out there
> that while some women may be able to centre through upper body strength, the
> majority of us need to be taught to utilize our body while centering/throwing.
>
> sam - alias the cat lady
> Home of Manx cats, Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and the odd horse
> Melbourne, Ontario, CANADA
> (SW Ontario)
> http://www.geocities.com/paris/3110
>
Not only that but if you have a bad back it is a good idea also,
instead of putting pressure on you back you are protecting it. This
will help prevent lower back problems. This is a good techinque for
men and women. I can last at the wheel for 10 minutes or so, using my
shoulders and my back, before I have to quit, Using my legs and
protecting my back I can last several hours, with the occasional get up
and move around. I am 6'4" and over 200 lbs
Kirk
Wendy Hampton on sat 2 nov 96
I was curious - Is wedging on the wheel as effective as wedging on a table?
thanks,
Wendy from Bainbridge Island WA
Richard Burkett on sat 2 nov 96
A recap:
I made a comment about the sexist nature of the following from Carol Rishel:
> >My first wheel instructor was a man (probly still is!). Anyway, I could
not
> >center the way he taught. My next instructor was (and is) a woman. She
> >taught me to 'throw like a girl' - meaning I use my body rather than the
> >upper body strength.
Katherine Villyard commented:
> Maybe I missed the part where she said that either boys or girls can't
throw. >In fact, I'm having trouble telling whether you think her comment is
>offensive to men or to women--maybe you could enlighten me.
I'm not particularly offended (and actually the original comment was probably
made as an attempt at humor - not always the easiest thing to communicate
through typing). I find that using stereotypes like "throw like a girl" to be
at the very least unproductive and possibly offensive to both men and women.
I also think it's good to be clear that teaching to throw using the body is
not just something done by women teachers. I teach that way, Don Reitz taught
that way when I taught with him at the UW-Madison. Many people I know of both
genders teach this way.
and Sam (alias the cat lady) said in relating a similar experience to Carol's:
>The point of this note is to re-enforce to those male teachers out there
>that while some women may be able to centre through upper body strength, the
>majority of us need to be taught to utilize our body while
centering/throwing.
And a lot of men that I've taught had the same problem - not enough upper
body strength. The point is, I hope, to reinforce in teachers of all genders
to teach throwing in a way that makes it possible for ALL students to learn.
It's unfortunate that both of you had an less than satisfying experience with
your first throwing teachers. Try not to blame it on one half of the
population. Thanks.
Richard
Richard Burkett - School of Art, Design, & A.H, SDSU, San Diego, CA 92182-4805
E-mail: richard.burkett@sdsu.edu <-> Voice mail: (619) 594-6201
Home Page: http://rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/rburkett/www/burkett.html
CeramicsWeb: http://apple.sdsu.edu/ceramicsweb/index.html
Bob Hanlin on mon 4 nov 96
I don't know if anyone has suggested this, but the Robin Hopper video on
Beginning to throw on the potters wheel has what to me was a rather unique
approach to the centering process. Now, realize that I, like a lot of you,
live and work in a "cave" but I do Artist in Residences and have tried the
approach he advicates with high school and middle school students with
somewhat pleasantly suprising results.
Maybe a few coin spent on this video would help.
Bob Hanlin
banlin@ionet.net
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> A recap:
>I made a comment about the sexist nature of the following from Carol Rishel:
>> >My first wheel instructor was a man (probly still is!). Anyway, I could
>not
>> >center the way he taught. My next instructor was (and is) a woman. She
>> >taught me to 'throw like a girl' - meaning I use my body rather than the
>> >upper body strength.
>
>Katherine Villyard commented:
>> Maybe I missed the part where she said that either boys or girls can't
>throw. >In fact, I'm having trouble telling whether you think her comment is
>>offensive to men or to women--maybe you could enlighten me.
>
>I'm not particularly offended (and actually the original comment was probably
>made as an attempt at humor - not always the easiest thing to communicate
>through typing). I find that using stereotypes like "throw like a girl" to be
>at the very least unproductive and possibly offensive to both men and women.
>
>I also think it's good to be clear that teaching to throw using the body is
>not just something done by women teachers. I teach that way, Don Reitz taught
>that way when I taught with him at the UW-Madison. Many people I know of both
>genders teach this way.
>
>and Sam (alias the cat lady) said in relating a similar experience to Carol's:
>>The point of this note is to re-enforce to those male teachers out there
>>that while some women may be able to centre through upper body strength, the
>>majority of us need to be taught to utilize our body while
>centering/throwing.
>
>And a lot of men that I've taught had the same problem - not enough upper
>body strength. The point is, I hope, to reinforce in teachers of all genders
>to teach throwing in a way that makes it possible for ALL students to learn.
>
>It's unfortunate that both of you had an less than satisfying experience with
>your first throwing teachers. Try not to blame it on one half of the
>population. Thanks.
>
>Richard
>
>
>Richard Burkett - School of Art, Design, & A.H, SDSU, San Diego, CA 92182-4805
>E-mail: richard.burkett@sdsu.edu <-> Voice mail: (619) 594-6201
>Home Page: http://rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/rburkett/www/burkett.html
>CeramicsWeb: http://apple.sdsu.edu/ceramicsweb/index.html
>
>
Bob Hanlin
3504 N. Tulsa
Oklahoma City, OK 73112
e-mail bhanlin@ionet.net
Terrance Lazaroff on mon 4 nov 96
Sam;
Did you ever stop and think that maybe your first course, male instructure
told you to use your body but that you were not experienced enough to
recognize the value of the advice?
My profs were all men and they always pointed out that one throws best with
their body.
Maybe your prof was not experienced enough to see thay you were not using
your body. Maybe you were centering enough to satisfy his standards for
someone of your experience. Were you groaning when centering?
Let us be careful out there.
Terrance F. Lazaroff
St-Hubert, Quebec, CANADA !!!!!
NANCY C. GRENARD on tue 5 nov 96
My first teacher was female, 91 years old, had athritis in her
hands, and probably weighed less than 91 pounds as she wasn't even 5 feet
tall.
Whenever I was struggling with centering (and telling myself that I
just wasn't strong enough), this wonderful woman would approach,
slowly lean over the wheel from the other side and from a standing
position, perfectly center my clay. Ahhhh, she kept me humble!
It's not about strength; it's about technique!
.....in tribute to Ella Marshall, who would have been 95 on 11/11.
===========================================================
Nancy C. Grenard ncgrenard@dais.purdue.edu
Director, Information Systems phone: 317-494-7626
Development & Alumni Info Svcs fax: 317-496-1154
1800 PMU, B50
West Lafayette, IN 47907-1800
=============================================================
You never know when you're making a memory.-- Rickie Lee Jones
Akita-jin \"Lee Love\" on wed 6 nov 96
Terrance Lazaroff wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Sam;
>
> Did you ever stop and think that maybe your first course, male instructure
> told you to use your body but that you were not experienced enough to
> recognize the value of the advice?
>
> My profs were all men and they always pointed out that one throws best with
> their body.
>
> Maybe your prof was not experienced enough to see thay you were not using
> your body. Maybe you were centering enough to satisfy his standards for
> someone of your experience. Were you groaning when centering?
>
> Let us be careful out there.
Hi Terrance,
I found something more ephemeral than my body being important: my
breath. Having studied martial arts and Zen meditation (*Gack!
Religion!*) ;^), right away I realized how important breathing is to
centering and throwing. If you hold your breath or are not breathing
evenly, your throwing goes outta wack.
Having your throwing relate to your breath gives more life to your
forms. I think it makes the difference between sloppy and lively
forms.
Lee in Minnesota, USA?
====================================================
/(o\ Lee Love In St. Paul, MN USA ' Come see some pixs of my AkitaPup:
\o)/ mailto:LeeLove@millcomm.com ' http://www.millcomm.com/~leelove
Zatoichi@bruce-lee.com ' "It gets late early out there."
-Yogi Berra-
lee1w@aol.com on fri 8 nov 96
Thanks for the information on keeping wrists straight when centering. I
have developed wrist problems, and I would be happy to get any information
on how to adapt. Obviously, I need to reduce the time on the wheel. Do
you know of any published information for potters that includes adaptive
equipment and exercises. Apparently, carpal tunnel syndrome is an
occupational hazard
Don Sanami on fri 8 nov 96
Lee, Isao and I have been throwing for 35 years and have not developed
CTs. I suspect there are many reasons for the affliction.I doubt it
arises only from the throwing but also from causes exterior to the
potting. Of all the many potters we have known over the years,not one
hasdeveloped any permanent damage to the wrists. We are in touch with
several former students of oursa, in Canada as well as in the US and
Japan.Three are really production potters. The remainder work steadily at
thew trade. I do know that using too hard a body in an attempt to pull
high pots will result in considerable fatigue. We feel it is generally
best to use a soft,plastic,well-aged body and lots of practice.On Fri, 8 Nov
1996 lee1w@aol.com wrote:
Centering:Left on its own,the wheel always runs centered.
Perhaps the potters center is at a point directly beyond the sternum to a
point between the two hands.....the potter must be centered.The tools are
blameless. Japanese potters have been known to shim one side of the wheel
base to allow for throwing off-centre but this does not disturb the
potters centre.donkinoko & Isao Sanami.
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Thanks for the information on keeping wrists straight when centering. I
> have developed wrist problems, and I would be happy to get any information
> on how to adapt. Obviously, I need to reduce the time on the wheel. Do
> you know of any published information for potters that includes adaptive
> equipment and exercises. Apparently, carpal tunnel syndrome is an
> occupational hazard
>
Harvey Sadow on sat 9 nov 96
lee1w@aol.com wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I have developed wrist problems, and I would be happy to get any
information on how to adapt. Apparently, carpal tunnel syndrome is an
> occupational hazard.
Hi Lee,
I am not a doctor and this is not a prescription, but I know of
several people who have used vitamins to overcome those pesty wrist
problems that affect the likes of potters, motorcyclists, waitresses,
typists, etc... . IT GOES LIKE THIS: They started taking a high potency
multivitamin which contains at least 50 mg. of B6 and 50 mcg. of B12
with a large dose of C. The C is apparantly necessary to metabolize the
B vitamins in a way which is relevant. I started taking a multiV which
includes 100 mg B6 and 100 mcg of B12 with a 300 mg C tablet when I
began having wrist and thumb pain while wedging about ten years ago. It
took about two-three weeks and a little let up in stressful activity,
but I have been fine ever since. When I overdo it, I know it, and just
back off a little. I take my V's every day like a good boy. Hope you
feel better, soon.
Harvey Sadow
Hatton on sat 9 nov 96
I'm not a great potter, by any means, but I can teach centering.
I know I'm on the right track because sometimes people can
center in the first lesson. When people say use your body,
maybe they aren't specific enough. I tell people to brace every
part of their body possible. Have the both feet flat, if possible;
brace knees against the wheel; brace elbows on knees or upper arms
against their body. Lastly, tighten stomach muscles. I give a
brief pep talk demystifying the centering ( not "get your mind
centered") pointing out that the clay on the wheel weighs about a
pound and the individual at the wheel weighs in excess of 100
times that and it would be silly to let yourself be thrown around
by a pound of mud. Then with the wheel at full tilt, I stand over
them like a birth coach watching to see if their whole bodies are
shaking (some folks have so little muscle tone I'm not sure how
they walk) or just their hands or maybe just their little fingers
and when everything stops shaking, gently remove hands - - centered.
FWIW Grace
Fred and Grace Hatton, Hawley, PA
hatton@microserve.com
Edward Kroon on thu 13 mar 97
Hello, to all those who throw therefore you are. I am experiencing a
strange phenomenon. Here are the circumstances: I will not throw for
about three or four months. When I go back to throwing, I, for the life
of me, cannot center. This persists for the first day or so. Has
anyone experienced this, and if so, how can I overcome this frustrating
problem.
One more thing, Potery was invented to make utilitarian objects: tea
pots, bowls, plates, etc. If these are the roots, what happens if we
abandon them?
Edward Kroon
Manti UT. Where all is well in zion, Yea, zion prospereth, all is well.
JULIE ATWOOD on fri 14 mar 97
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hello, to all those who throw therefore you are.
My claim to fame is I do NOT throw (although, if pressed, I will admit, I
am generally fluent and able in this portion of the ceramic arts)...but I
still am.
>I am experiencing a
> strange phenomenon. Here are the circumstances: I will not throw for
> about three or four months. When I go back to throwing, I, for the life
> of me, cannot center. This persists for the first day or so. Has
> anyone experienced this, and if so, how can I overcome this frustrating
> problem.
Many people experience what you're saying. Some potters have even
complained of "bad centering days" akin to "bad hair days". As for
myself, although I profess to 'not throw', I can center any day of the
week or month...for the simple reason that for quite some time, the only
aspect of throwing I WOULD do was center. When I was frustrated or
upset, I would storm to the wheel, slam a huge block of clay down, and
center it...then knock it off center, and center it again...I did this
for hours (I had very, very soggy clay afterwards and raw hands from the
grog in the clay I used). Even though I will let several months elapse
before I decide it's time to take out my frustrations on the wheel, I
find I can always center, because I've done it SO much...
My suggestion to you would be a 'centering session'. Make yourself a
pile of balls of clay, various sizes, and spend the entire time
centering. What I do now is center, open, and pull once or twice.
> One more thing, Potery was invented to make utilitarian objects: tea
> pots, bowls, plates, etc. If these are the roots, what happens if we
> abandon them?
>
What happens? Lightning from the sky strikes you. Curses from the One
above follows you all your life. No. Nothing spectacular happens right
away unless you want it to, and make it happen. What are your reasons
for departing from these roots? What are you trying to accomplish? Just
questions to ask...
Julie in Seattle
> Edward Kroon
> Manti UT. Where all is well in zion, Yea, zion prospereth, all is well.
>
Jon Lovejoy on fri 14 mar 97
In a message dated 3/13/97 Edward Kroon wrote:
....I will not throw for about three or four months. When I go back to
throwing, I cannot center. Has anyone experienced this, and if so, how can I
overcome this frustrating problem? One more thing, Pottery was invented to
make utilitarian objects: teapots, bowls, plates, etc. If these are the
roots, what happens if we
abandon them?
.. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _
Edward, Edward, Edward...
The key to overcoming this "frustrating problem" is to not stay away from
clay for months at a time. I don't think there's any field where you can
abstain for months and not be a bit rusty upon your return. I know sometimes
our schedules don't allow much studio time, but I feel at least once a week
is essential. I remember Paul Soldner saying that he would think of any
excuse just to go into the studio for a few minutes each day. He found that
if he missed one day, it was harder to make time the next day, and so on. Of
course, I don't know your specific circumstances, but try to make time to
throw on a regular basis and you should maintain (or even improve) your skill
level.
As to your question about abandoning the "roots" - I don't think you can. If
you are working with clay on the wheel, the clay is going through a fluid
transformation during the throwing process. At any given time, you may look
at your wheelhead and see a cup, or bowl, or plate, regardless of the final
form you have in mind. I think it's important to gain a mastery (there's
that word again) of these basic forms in order to understand clay, but once
proficient I feel we have a freedom to combine, distort, slash, etc. and the
pot will still hold value, because the skill level, the mastery, is inherent
in the work.
- Jon Lovejoy in Southern California where I've got a sore throat & a cold -
hence my opinionated and grumpy outlook. Oh well...
dan wilson on sat 15 mar 97
Edward,
I've found that my centering problems usually occur when I've failed to
"warm-up" properly. Wedging my clay before I throw helps me in this regard.
Throwing is an intensley physical activity for me so I like to prepare a
few balls of clay that are not fully conditioned ie. not as stiff. I treat
them as part of the warm-up process in which my attention is focused on the
centering. I sometimes like to think of these preliminary exercises as
sketches for the pieces which follow. On the roots thing? The plant stops
growing when the roots out grow the pot. When this happens, the best thing
to do is put it in a bigger one.
Dan Wilson
vosburgh on fri 21 mar 97
Edward wrote:
>I am experiencing a
> strange phenomenon. Here are the circumstances: I will not throw for
> about three or four months. When I go back to throwing, I, for the life
> of me, cannot center. This persists for the first day or so. Has
> anyone experienced this, and if so, how can I overcome this frustrating
> problem.
I have done this intermittant throwing cycle for the past three years. I am
certainly not a "professional grade" potter, but I have no trouble centering
after a long lapse (however, don't ask about form, delicacy, or the quality of
the decoration, which doesn't "come back" quite as fast). Anyhow, here's my
strategy for what it's worth: Think of yourself as a potter...this is what
you do. Second, re-perform your student excercises...if you were taught to
throw, do exactly what you were taught. I find this relaxing...it's a lot
more comfortable to be a student than it is to be an artist. Wedge the clay
extra well, and take it slow...the "Zen of pottery" may be overdone, but you
do need to have your mind in the right place when you sit at the wheel.
Kirby Vosburgh vosburgh@crd.ge.com
Bob Hanlin on sat 22 mar 97
I would suggest that Edward and any one having trouble centering buy Robin
Hopper's video "Begining to Throw on the Potters Wheel". In that video he
explains and domonstrates the most straight forward way to center I've ever
seen. I have been able to teach people who have never thrown how to center
in two or three sessions and for those who used the "wrestle the stuff till
it gives up" method I learned in college I have been able to demonstrate
and get them to center in 20 minutes. I'm a disciple of his method. It's
simple and it works. It goes sort of like this.
Hold the left hand in a hand shaking manner and on the side of the lump.
Put the right hand on top of the lump as if you were going to push down
with the edge (you know, where you're little finger is).
Push like the dickens with your left, that's right you're left hand - the
one you use onlly for balance, and retain the lump from rising with the right.
At this point your only covering about half of the lump.
watch the other half to see when it runs smooth like a car tire.
When it's there it's centered.
This looses a lot without the video.
FWIW.
At 05:02 PM 3/21/97 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Edward wrote:
>
>>I am experiencing a
>> strange phenomenon. Here are the circumstances: I will not throw for
>> about three or four months. When I go back to throwing, I, for the life
>> of me, cannot center. This persists for the first day or so. Has
>> anyone experienced this, and if so, how can I overcome this frustrating
>> problem.
>
>I have done this intermittant throwing cycle for the past three years. I am
>certainly not a "professional grade" potter, but I have no trouble centering
>after a long lapse (however, don't ask about form, delicacy, or the
quality of
>the decoration, which doesn't "come back" quite as fast). Anyhow, here's my
>strategy for what it's worth: Think of yourself as a potter...this is what
>you do. Second, re-perform your student excercises...if you were taught to
>throw, do exactly what you were taught. I find this relaxing...it's a lot
>more comfortable to be a student than it is to be an artist. Wedge the clay
>extra well, and take it slow...the "Zen of pottery" may be overdone, but you
>do need to have your mind in the right place when you sit at the wheel.
>
>Kirby Vosburgh vosburgh@crd.ge.com
>
>
Bob Hanlin
bhanlin@ionet.net
Oklahoma City, OK
Ellen Barrosse on sun 23 mar 97
I've searched everywhere on the web for this video. Can you tell me where
you bought it or where I could find it?
Thanks.
Ellen
> I would suggest that Edward and any one having trouble centering buy
Robin
> Hopper's video "Begining to Throw on the Potters Wheel".
Dannon Rhudy on mon 24 mar 97
Look in Ceramics Monthly. Robin Hopper has ads listing what
videos, etc., he has available.
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I've searched everywhere on the web for this video. Can you tell
me where
you bought it or where I could find it?
Thanks.
Ellen
> I would suggest that Edward and any one having trouble centering
buy
Robin
> Hopper's video "Begining to Throw on the Potters Wheel".
Edward Kroon on thu 27 mar 97
To the clay community
I have had a good time dealing with my computer these last few weeks. I
have been off line for a while; needless to say when I got back to checking
my mail, I discovered in the neighborhood of 500 messages. It took me a
while to reed them.
To everybody who responded to my question on centering, I am grateful.
Some insights: I remember in college my teacher had us center about 5 to 6
different ways, all of which worked very well. Then she had us pull a
cylinder using all the centering techniques, she then fired the different
cylinder. They all survived the firing, but they had some strange
characteristic. Some of them were not as sound as the others.
I only give this insight because of one reply I received promoted one of
these less than perfect techniques. The one in which you press from the
side and the top at the same time. I have found that if you do not let the
clay rise its platelets will not form tight bonds and it will be more
likely to break when drop.
Given most pottery will break when dropped and comes in contact with a hard
surface. However, one techniques that seemed to be more conducive to
strength was wheel wedging, or needing. When dropped only one of these
vessels shattered and it was uneven and on the thin side.
Do not fly off the wheel on me. All of the centering processes produced
viable pots that survived the bisque and glost firing at ^10. This test
was to produce the most durable pots possible.
(note: The test was conducted on industrial carpet, you know the low pile
stuff, and the vessles were droped from a height of 36", to aproximate the
conditions in a normal kitchen.)
Edward Kroon,
Manti, Ut. Where they have transgressed the law, changed the ordinances,
and set at not the new and everlasting covenant.
mel jacobson on sun 20 apr 97
big clay..........it is all in the legs. use the big muscles in your
legs......all of this arm stuff will kill you.
place your forearm on your leg and push with the leg...
little lori in south carolina learned to center 25 lbs in about 10
minutes....just used her leg...........ask her about it.
mel jacobson/minnsota
Lori Leary on mon 21 apr 97
mel jacobson wrote:
> -------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ....... place your forearm on your leg and push with the leg...
> little lori in south carolina learned to center 25 lbs in about 10
> minutes....just used her leg...........ask her about it........
Hmmmm....looks like I have been put on the spot.....
Yes, it is possible to center and throw large amounts of clay without
injuring your various BOKY PARTS. It is just as mel says; use your leg.
Lots of power in those muscles.... Of course it helps to prepare the
clay...pat it out into a cone shape, as symmetrical as possible. Then
just do it. Don't get frantic...it will get there.
I am 5'0" (okay, 4-11 and 1/2"), so body size and strength is not really
an issue in throwing large amounts of clay. It's more about technique
and control. I know what I have to do to make the clay do what I
want...every potter does. So use your leg to help center, and make the
clay do what you want.
Lori Leary
lleary@sccoast.net
Pawleys Island, SC USA
Richard Ramirez on mon 21 apr 97
Hello,
Here's my two cents on centering, espiecally for my small students who think
a large ball of clay is a giant amount.
I tell my student to put his stool next to the wheel(most of the time
touching), scoot as close to wheel as possible. Next to lean back on their
butts and rest their left elbow on their belly button, and place their left
plam on the spinnig clay and gently lean into the clay. With the right hand
acting as a guide and the natural weight of the body leaning into the clay,
it hardly takes any effort. Going slow and plenty of lubrication, it should
work for all of us . Try it and let know how it works for you.
R12396,Richard Ramirez,"The Clay Stalker"
BWINER@UKCC.uky.edu on mon 21 apr 97
When you say use your leg for centering large amounts of clay, do you really
mean"lean against your leg"or do you mean lean against your thigh?
Grimmer on tue 22 apr 97
Richard Ramirez wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hello,
snip
> Next to lean back on their
> butts and rest their left elbow on their belly button, and place their left
> plam on the spinnig clay and gently lean into the clay.
snip
I'm not an expert on CTS or anything, but just about every source says that cock
the wrist back and mashing the palm into the clay with all your might is asking
trouble.
A fey of things seem to make the task of large scale centering (and throwing) ea
1) *soft* clay. The softer the clay, the less wear and tear on the wrists. It wo
wear out the rest of your body, either.
2) Center small amounts and add more to the top. (Mentioned in other posts)
3) Center from the far side of the clay! Reach around the clay from both sides a
bottom of the mass. Link your fingers together, palms facing in towards the cent
of the clay. Now, just lean back and let your hands come up and form a cone out
the mass. Repeat.
This is more easily demonstrated than described, and takes some practice, but on
mastered, becomes quite easy. I center everything over 7 or 8 pounds this way, a
20 lbs is a snap!
steve grimmer
carterville, illinois
Dannon Rhudy on wed 23 apr 97
Steve,
Quite true; centering by pulling instead of pushing is much
easier on wrists and so on, and not difficult, either. The long
muscles of the back are strong to pull with, much like the thigh
muscle to push with. I always pull to center large amounts of
clay. Anyone who can center by pushing can do it by pulling.
Save those wrists. Life is long.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
3) Center from the far side of the clay! Reach around the clay
from both sides a
bottom of the mass. Link your fingers together, palms facing in
towards the cent
of the clay. Now, just lean back and let your hands come up and
form a cone out
the mass. Repeat.
This is more easily demonstrated than described, and takes some
practice, but on
mastered, becomes quite easy. I center everything over 7 or 8
pounds this way, a
20 lbs is a snap!
steve grimmer
carterville, illinois
Bruce Girrell on tue 25 may 99
Ellen,
I was going to send this privately, but I though I'd stick my neck out and
go for it on the list. I'll forewarn you - I'm no expert. I've only been
throwing clay for about two years. If Dannon Rhudy or Vince Pitelka tells
you to do it differently, listen to them.
There was a thread not very long ago about mechanical "ball openers" and
centering devices. Just in case you missed it, the centering device is a
metal arm pivoted on your wheel so that you can simply push a shaped piece
of metal against the rotating lump of clay to perfectly center it.
Now, I'm not suggesting that you get one of those things, but rather I bring
it up to give you a visual image. You need your centering arm to be like
that lever. Rigid. Solid. The clay has no choice but to move on center. If
you try to do it with muscle power, the clay is going to win almost every
time. I am a 235 pound man and I can't muscle anything but small lumps of
clay to center.
When I center, I place the elbow of my left arm against my left thigh with
my foot firmly planted. Much of the force actually comes from my leg. My arm
simply serves to communicate that force to the clay. I have centered up to
18 pounds of clay that way - certainly no record, but it works well enough
for me.
The bats shouldn't make much difference. I did have some trouble at first
when I changed from plastic bats to plaster bats because some of the
off-center clay would stick to the plaster and my left hand would ride up
and over the little mound of clay stuck to the bat on each revolution. I
cured that two ways. First, I learned to use more water so that the
troublesome lumps simply dissolved. If that doesn't work, I use my finger or
a rib as the wheel is rotating to trim off the troublesome lumps and give my
left hand a flat surface to ride on.
Hope this helps.
Bruce Girrell
in cool, rainy northern Michigan
Bonnie Staffel on wed 26 may 99
Dear Ellen,
With reference to the centering, the first thing you should be aware of
is not to get any water under your ball of clay. Your first pressure
should be downward with a damp right hand (just enough water to let the
clay slip under your hand) and immediately seal the base of the ball of
clay with your little finger. All movements should be concentrated on
an emphasis on downward pressure with the left hand pushing towards the
center to keep the ball under control and not flattened. It is also
important not to get a flat top to the ball. Always make a beehive form
so that the uneven clay has a way of escaping from the point at the top.
It should not make any difference what kind of disk you use if you
follow the above directions. Good Luck.
Bonnie Staffel
Debby Grant on wed 26 may 99
Dear Ellen,
The type of bat you use or whether you use a bat at all should
not make any difference in centering. What you probably need
to do is use VERY SOFT clay until you get the idea. It's been
my experience after 27 years of teaching that many beginners
use clay that is too stiff.
Good luck, Debby Grant in NH
CINDI ANDERSON on fri 28 may 99
As someone who recently learned how to center (not always perfect), I
have two things to say. 1. I agree that soft clay is essential. It's
harder to work with once it's centered because it collapses easy, but
it's a good tradeoff until you get good at centering. 2. Don't
underestimate how much force you have to put into it. I am not a strong
person and have to press with all my might, even with pretty soft clay.
Cindi
mel jacobson on sat 29 may 99
one of the most simple things to do in ceramics is center 20 lbs of
clay.
it is a part of my workshop schedule.
so listen:
don't center 20, center 4, five pound balls of clay.
start with ball one, center as usual, flatten the ball a bit.
then, throw a five pound ball on top.......center that.
then another, then another.
easy.
use your legs. brace your left elbow or forearm on your leg.
push with your leg.
easy.
when kevin does his one hundred pound pot when we do dueling
potters.......he just centers 10, 10 pound balls.....then makes a
big bowl.'
most small people cannot wedge 25 lbs of clay.
so why try?
use a size that is comfortable for you.............
then stack them up.
in my many years of teaching, i would love to find a tiny person, often a
girl.........teach
her to throw big.........blow the great big hulking boys out of the water.
technique, what a concept.
but, remember, a big ugly pot, really big, is a lot of ugly to see.
often, a great form in 5 lbs, can translate well to a great form at 20 lbs.
sense in throwing, and good scale is important.
a 20 lb. bowl holds a great deal of potato salad.....make the scale of your
pots match the need.
i have often said, `big pots are often made to go in galleries and
museums.` i scale my pots to my customers needs, not mine.
but, then, often people do not have a clue why they are throwing pots.
just check the magazines each month so they will know what to make.
mel/mn
skill and technique, understanding and craftsmanship.
good things to learn. hey, did anyone notice yet?....it is almost
the year 2,000.
http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Tom Wirt on sun 30 may 99
Subject: Re: centering
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> As someone who recently learned how to center (not always perfect), I
> have two things to say. 1. I agree that soft clay is essential. It's
> harder to work with once it's centered because it collapses easy, but
> it's a good tradeoff until you get good at centering. 2. Don't
> underestimate how much force you have to put into it. I am not a strong
> person and have to press with all my might, even with pretty soft clay.
>
> Cindi
Cindi...
Just had a group of 12 year olds here and gave each a first chance on the
wheel. One was having a particular problem with how much force it was
taking to get the clay to move, until one of the others said,
"Amanda......just think of the clay as your brother's neck!"
Tom
Ray Aldridge on sun 30 may 99
At 08:39 AM 5/28/99 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>As someone who recently learned how to center (not always perfect), I
>have two things to say. 1. I agree that soft clay is essential. It's
>harder to work with once it's centered because it collapses easy, but
>it's a good tradeoff until you get good at centering.
Actually, I'd say that using soft clay was a good idea even after you get
good at centering. I work almost exclusively with porcelain, which a lot
of folks like to throw stiff, but I get much better results with very soft
clay. Of course, my forms are not extremely large, since I only make
domestic ware, but throwing with soft clay gives me not only better control
but a degree of spontaneity you don't get with over-worked forms. With
soft clay, you have to get where you're going quickly and decisively.
2. Don't
>underestimate how much force you have to put into it. I am not a strong
>person and have to press with all my might, even with pretty soft clay.
>
This I don't really agree with. I'm slouching toward late middle age, and
it's a lot less fun to hump those 50 lb. boxes of clay around than it used
to be, but I'm not conscious of using much strength when centering. At the
risk of sounding like a woolly-headed mystic, centering strikes me as one
of those mind-over-matter things. If you keep at it long enough, it starts
happening almost automatically, without thought or effort. Maybe the key
is that the burst of effort is so short it sort of disappears, if that
makes any sense. In centering a big lump, there will be several such
bursts, but maximum effort is for such a short moment that the muscles
don't seem to protest.
Ray
Anna on wed 17 nov 99
Recently I was throwing, and when I try and center a piece I cone up and
down.
However, everytime I cone down and sometimes up pieces of clay come off
due
to my fingers trying to cone up and down. My hands are small so I think
that
this is the reason I can't keep a large piece of clay centered.
Thank you for any information you have.
Anna
Dannon Rhudy on thu 18 nov 99
At 10:22 AM 11/17/1999 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>Recently I was throwing, and when I try and center ......
pieces of clay come off ..... My hands are small so I think
>that this is the reason I can't keep a large piece of clay centered.....
-------------------------------------------------------
Anna, it is not a matter of hand size. It is a matter of technique. Even
small/small handed people can center/throw large pieces of
clay. It takes practice, is all. Start with smaller pieces, that you do
NOT have a problem with, and note the way you handle the clay.
Move to gradually larger and larger amounts, keep the technique
correct, and you will be able to do it. If you have a teacher or
mentor, ask them to walk you through it, and you will learn even
faster.
Regards,
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
Pam Myam on thu 18 nov 99
In a message dated 11/17/1999 10:24:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
arandle@carroll1.cc.edu writes:
> Recently I was throwing, and when I try and center a piece I cone up and
> down.
> However, everytime I cone down and sometimes up pieces of clay come off
> due to my fingers trying to cone up and down. My hands are small so I
think
> that this is the reason I can't keep a large piece of clay centered.
> Thank you for any information you have.
> Anna
>
Anna,
My hands are not especially small (seven glove size), but I find it helpful
to brace my elbows against my rib cage or sort on the
top-toward-the-inner-thigh part of my legs and hook my right thumb over the
left thumb (right-handed) with that fat part below the thumbs smack up
against each other. It's sort of like from the waist to the neck is one
stable unit. Does this make sense?
I get some of those little pieces of clay coming off sometimes, too, but I
just let them go.
Pam
Cindy Strnad on thu 18 nov 99
Anna,
If your hands are too small to handle a large lump of clay, maybe it would
be easier not to cone up and down. Knead the clay well, and you won't have
to do this. Then, center the clay in two or three stages:
First, center the top half/third.
Center the bottom or middle of the clay, and blend it with the top so that
both are centered.
If you're not finished by now, center the bottom and blend it with the rest.
If this still doesn't work for you, cut the lump of clay in half and center
one half. Scrape off the slimy surface with a rubber rib (wheel turning),
then stop the wheel and add the second lump to the top of the first. Stick
it well, then start the wheel again and center the top and blend it with the
bottom.
However you center, it does help immensely to first get the lump into a
round shape approximating the shape you'll want in your centered lump.
Hope this helps,
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
Custer, SD
Diane Karmiol on thu 18 nov 99
Sorry you are having problems with your throwing.
The reason the clay is coming off could be that you are choking it.
When centering try cressing the clay with a firm steady hand not trying to
wring its neck.
Also try closing your eyes and just enjoying the feel of the clay.
Have fun and stay in mud.
Best regards,
Diane in Miami
millie carpenter on sun 28 nov 99
Anna,
I have very small hands, and I am very short and not all that strong. I
can center and throw clay up to 15 pounds. it is not the size of your
hands or physical strength. it is technique. what I was taught was simple,
but required a bit of practice. and I will share it with you. the first
things was to sit as close to the wheel as you can, make sure that your
feet are level by using a brick under your foot, and if you are really
short put the pedal on a brick and two bricks under your other foot. your
left elbow is braced against your hip bone (actually the lady who taught me
this physically jammed my elbow in), and start with your right elbow down
and close to your body. (I had a friend who would look at me and say,
elbows down, you're not flying). start with a 1 pound piece, you can
actually center that (without coneing)with one hand. use lots of water. put
the edge of your hand on the wheel vertically, with your thumb on top of the
clay, push in toward center, down with your thumb, keep the clay from
rising. when the clay feels centered. slow the wheel and very, very
slowly, take your hands from the clay. if you let go abruptly, the clay
tries to follow you and goes off center. move up in 1/2 pound increments,
and stay with each weight until you can really control it. when you cone,
one hand pushes in from the base of the mound, the other hand is braced on
the center top of the mound to prevent the volcano effect. or if you press
the base in toward the center with both hands, keep your thumbs on the
center to prevent the mound from really rising with a hollow core. when you
get to the larger balls of clay, 5 pounds or more. make sure that you start
with a really cone shaped ball, like a hershey kiss, and make sure that it
is close to centered on the wheel to start. there are two philosophies
when you get to the bigger pieces. one is to center the top and work your
way down, centering a few inches at a time. the other is to center the base
and work your way up a few inches at a time. try both and see which works
better, and one other thing. use soft clay. is is more pliable, and will
move. firm clay is really hard to deal with, it really resists.
I have been told that you have just wedged the clay and kept it wraped so
that a skin hasn't formed you don't need to cone, only do that if the clay
needs to be equally moist all the way through and it isn't because it has
set for a day or two. I have found this to be true although I am sure that
some will call it heresy
good luck
Millie in MD, thankful that Thanksgiving is over, and that I have started my
Chanukkah shopping. (okay, I have gelt, extra dreidles, and I do know what
I am going to buy on monday.)
Anna wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> Recently I was throwing, and when I try and center a piece I cone up and
> down.
> However, everytime I cone down and sometimes up pieces of clay come off
> due
> to my fingers trying to cone up and down. My hands are small so I think
> that
> this is the reason I can't keep a large piece of clay centered.
> Thank you for any information you have.
> Anna
keramik on wed 7 nov 01
I have one more suggestion with regard to the centering problem.
When I was throwing just now I noticed that my weakest spot where
the clay never sits dead on, is right at the bottom of the hump.
I take a cabinet scraper, which is a metallic rectangled tool and before =
I open the clay,
trim the very bottom to a smooth finish. I press down rather than =
inwards so the unevenness
doesn't transfer to rest of the hump.
all the best
Angela
Essex, UK
where the autumn has finally arrived and the trees have decided to shed =
their leaves
mel jacobson on mon 14 jul 03
i know you cannot see me, and i
need to demo right now.
frustrates the hell out of me...as
this is the key to working a bit larger.
when new potters understand that the
legs...yes, LEGS are the key
to centering...it gets easy.
brace the left elbow on the inside of the thigh.
move your leg, not your arm.
very few teachers of throwing teach leg muscle
centering. it makes all the difference.
oh, well. another in the life long gaffs....that
we on clayart try to de-bunk.
LEGS, LEGS, LEGS...NOT ARMS.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
new/ http://www.TICK-ATTACK.COM
David Beumee on mon 14 jul 03
Just a little reminder for those that are having back trouble
or want to avoid it, particularly if you're thinking of trying to
center larger amounts of clay. The easiest way to get the
use and power of your legs into centering is to stand at your wheel.
David Beumee
Earth Alchemy Pottery
Lafayette, CO
7/14/03 5:17:41 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
>i know you cannot see me, and i
>need to demo right now.
>
>frustrates the hell out of me...as
>this is the key to working a bit larger.
>
>when new potters understand that the
>legs...yes, LEGS are the key
>to centering...it gets easy.
>
>brace the left elbow on the inside of the thigh.
>move your leg, not your arm.
>
>very few teachers of throwing teach leg muscle
>centering. it makes all the difference.
>oh, well. another in the life long gaffs....that
>we on clayart try to de-bunk.
>
>LEGS, LEGS, LEGS...NOT ARMS.
>From:
>Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
>web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
>or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>new/ http://www.TICK-ATTACK.COM
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Arnold Howard on mon 14 jul 03
A baseball pitcher uses legs. You can see the way they wind up before
throwing.
Arnold Howard
From: mel jacobson
> when new potters understand that the
> legs...yes, LEGS are the key
> to centering...it gets easy.
> LEGS, LEGS, LEGS...NOT ARMS.
Roger Korn on mon 14 jul 03
David Beumee wrote:
>Just a little reminder for those that are having back trouble
>or want to avoid it, particularly if you're thinking of trying to
>center larger amounts of clay. The easiest way to get the
>use and power of your legs into centering is to stand at your wheel.
>
...and get your back against a post or wall and plant your left elbow as
far towards the center
of your pelvis as possible. Then, your legs and body weight can do most
of the work.
Roger
>
>David Beumee
>Earth Alchemy Pottery
>Lafayette, CO
>
>
>
>
>...
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
David Beumee on tue 15 jul 03
7/14/03 11:15:34 AM, Roger Korn wrote:
>...and get your back against a post or wall and plant your left elbow as
>far towards the center
>of your pelvis as possible. Then, your legs and body weight can do most
>of the work.
I built a box around the wheel head, providing a belly board I can lean
into and brace on, and this also works well.
>David Beumee wrote:
>
>>Just a little reminder for those that are having back trouble
>>or want to avoid it, particularly if you're thinking of trying to
>>center larger amounts of clay. The easiest way to get the
>>use and power of your legs into centering is to stand at your wheel.
>>
>
>Roger
>
>>
>>David Beumee
>>Earth Alchemy Pottery
>>Lafayette, CO
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>...
>>______________________________________________________________________________
>>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>>
>>
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Merrie Boerner on wed 7 apr 04
Ask yourself, "Who is in control here, the clay, or ME?"
(a deep, thought provoking question)
Merrie in Mississippi
as an aside.......I taught myself to crochet when I had to spend lots of
time in doctor's offices with my daughter and my Mother. I find that I
crochet when I do not feel creative enough to use clay.
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Lynnette Duford on wed 7 apr 04
I am having a terrible time centering! My wheel head is level and I use my
left hand to center with right on top pushing down. What am I doing wrong???
Thanks,
Lynnette
Chris Ostrowski on wed 7 apr 04
Lynnette
Your elbows are moving. forget about the clay. forget about the wheel. forget about your right and left hand. concentrate on keeping your elbows quiet and still. and don't forget to breath. very important.
you might also try leaning into the clay, once your elbows are still. and don't stay in one place to long trying to force the clay. Caress and finesse it by climbing and descending gradually with your hands. try different positions with your hands, try your pads and fingers. try with just your left hand. then just your right. oops. not supposed to be thinking about the hands. disregard this paragragh.
try different wheel speeds. speed up. slow down. don't forget to breath.
someone once told me that "you're not centering the whole ball of clay. The majority of it is already centered." You're just working with the outer layer, getting it to join the rest in their glide around the clay carousel ride.
play. have fun. talk to it. sing to it. try the inside of your right elbow. don't forget to breath.
Chris Ostrowski
Ossining NY
ctopots@yahoo.com
Lynnette Duford wrote:
I am having a terrible time centering! My wheel head is level and I use my
left hand to center with right on top pushing down. What am I doing wrong???
Thanks,
Lynnette
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on wed 7 apr 04
Hi Lynetta,
Maybe pull in with the right fingers...whilst...
Phil
el v
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynnette Duford"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 11:19 AM
Subject: centering
> I am having a terrible time centering! My wheel head is
level and I use my
> left hand to center with right on top pushing down. What
am I doing wrong???
> Thanks,
> Lynnette
>
>
____________________________________________________________
__________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
Marc Hudson on wed 7 apr 04
Hi Lynnette,
It will help if you can provide some more information about your current =
set-
up. Are you new at this centering or trying a new technique? Are you le=
ft=20
handed or right handed and is the wheel spinning in the best direction fo=
r=20
your handedness(?)? Are you using a kick wheel, electric wheel, standing=
up=20
sitting down? Are you putting your body weight behind your left elbow to=
=20
help center? What amount of clay are you working with, 1# - 5# - 10#, an=
d is=20
it soft or hard clay? Are you keeping the clay moist enough while you=20
center? What part of centering isn't working? For someone who has been=20
throwing pots for years, the answers to these questions are almost=20
instinctual, yet for a new-comer, each question has major impact on succe=
ss. =20
I hope this begins to help identify the problem(s)
Marc Hudson
Playing with Fire
Espa=F1ola, NM, USA
www.artfulnm.org/hudson.html
---------- Original Message -----------
From: Lynnette Duford
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:19:19 -0400
Subject: centering
> I am having a terrible time centering! My wheel head is level and I=20
> use my left hand to center with right on top pushing down. What am I=20
> doing wrong??? Thanks, Lynnette
>=20
>=20
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>=20
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>=20
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at=20
melpots@pclink.com.
------- End of Original Message -------
Dave Finkelnburg on wed 7 apr 04
Lynnette,
Judging from the way you've written your post, I'd say it would help if
you relaxed. I'm going to guess you are using clay that is too firm, and
attacking it too aggressively. Especially as you learn to center, soft clay
is beneficial. It will respond more readily to your touch.
Start applying pressure to it slowly, evenly, rather than ramming a hand
into it quickly.
If you watch a good thrower center, the process may look very rapid,
because it is efficient, but the approach, and release are very smooth and
relaxed.
Also, you need your elbows close in to your sides, or, especially with
the left elbow if you are right-handed throwing on a wheel that turns
clockwise, even braced against you, so that as the off-center clay hits your
hands, it does not toss you about, but rather it moves to accommodate the
resistance you present. Try concentrating on your hands, as you center.
Are your hands wobbling about a lot? If so, that's your problem.
Again, if you approach the clay slowly, you will be moving less of it
per revolution, so it will apply less force against you, and as the clay
moves toward center you can follow it.
Unless you take the time and make the effort to describe more
specifically what's happening, or post a video somewhere we can watch, it is
impossible to answer your question for sure. :-( So what I've written is
just guessing. My apologies if I've completely missed the mark.
Dave Finkelnburg in Idaho
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynnette Duford"
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 12:19 PM
> I am having a terrible time centering! My wheel head is level and I use my
> left hand to center with right on top pushing down. What am I doing
wrong???
John Jensen on wed 7 apr 04
Lynette;
I'm afraid you haven't given enough information for anyone to give you
any real help. It's not so much what you are doing wrong, per se; but
you have to do a lot of things right for centering to happen. Starting
with good clay preparation, soft and well wedged. One can center with
the hands more or less the way you describe, but much more goes into it.
Have you looked at any books, seen any videos, been given any
instruction at all?
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
mudbug@toadhouse.com , http://www.toadhouse.com
Lou Roess on wed 7 apr 04
on 4/7/04 12:19 PM, Lynnette Duford at nettie6@VERIZON.NET wrote:
> I am having a terrible time centering!
Lynnette, You are probably not immobilizing your hands. Try tucking your
elbows into your hips and leaning on the clay with your whole body instead
of trying to push the clay with your arm muscles.
There was a long detailed thread about centering a while back. The
archives should have so many suggestions you would find out more than you
care to know about centering. Go to
http://www.potters.org/category150.htm
Best, Lou in Colorado
Annie Chrietzberg on wed 7 apr 04
Lynnette,
Centering is over-rated anyway.
Annie
On 7 Apr 2004, at 12:19, Lynnette Duford wrote:
> I am having a terrible time centering! My wheel head is level and I
> use my
> left hand to center with right on top pushing down. What am I doing
> wrong???
> Thanks,
> Lynnette
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
william schran on thu 8 apr 04
Lynnette wrote:>I am having a terrible time centering! My wheel head
is level and I use my
left hand to center with right on top pushing down. What am I doing wrong???<
Trying too hard with just using arm strength and pushing too hard.
First though - Is your clay soft or hard? Clay that's too hard is
nuts trying to center.
Think more holding your left hand as a steady point against the clay.
Arm on the leg, the leg muscle holding the arm steady. Slowly move
the hand/arm/leg towards the center of the wheel, Use right hand
opposite side pulling back. If the clay doesn't immediately be come
more centered, back away and slowly come into it again. No quick
build up of pressure!
Bill
Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 8 apr 04
Dear Lynette Duford,
May seem to be a stupid question for me to ask, but which way does
your wheel revolve
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
.
Joseph Herbert on fri 9 apr 04
The mysteries of what is so easy to the practiced and do difficult for the
beginner.
When I am thinking of the process of centering, I visualize the clay
behaving as a very viscous liquid that has to be persuaded into the shape
you intend. The process of centering requires the potter to trap the clay
in the hands and the cause it to flow into the center of the wheel. The
hands have to be lubricated with water to allow the clay to move without
sticking to the hands.
Seems straightforward but there are many things the interfere with the
desired result.
The starting shape of the clay can make the centering task more difficult.
If the initial shape of the clay lump is not symmetrical, the work required
to force it into the center of the wheel head is increased. Start with a
rather round ball to reduce this problem and try to really place the ball in
the center of the wheel head initially. Missing the center of rotation at
the start adds work to the process because you have to move the ball to the
center when you could have started with it there.
A serious impediment to centering among beginners is the lack of homogeneity
of the starting ball. If parts of the clay mass are harder and parts are
softer, the softer parts will flow easier and the harder parts will flow
slowly, or not at all. If you are following along with the viscous liquid
idea, liquid doesn't have hard and soft regions. When you are applying
force to the clay to get it to flow to center, you cannot possibly alter the
amount of force you apply to accommodate variations in the hardness of the
clay mass. This is easily fixed by wedging your clay sufficiently to assure
a truly homogeneous mass of clay.
A related problem is air bubbles. Air is much softer than clay and a single
air bubble of moderate size can make centering very difficult. While we
often assume that air in included in the clay mass during wedging, a most
troublesome problem is an air bubble under the clay mass. If air is trapped
under the clay when the ball is thrown down onto the wheel head, the
resilience of the bubble will bedevil the beginning thrower. The added
bonus that an air bubble brings with it is compressibility. When you have a
bubble, applying force moves the clay and compresses the air, making the
bubble smaller. When the clay is released, the bubble expands and will move
the clay. One can spend a lot of effort over a ball of clay with this
hidden bonus. Being careful about how the ball of clay is initially placed
on the wheel head can help with this problem. If you notice that you can
easily get the top part of the clay mass nicely centered but trying to
include material near the wheel head throws the whole thing off again, there
is probably an air bubble under your clay. When you are centering the top
part, there is no compression of the air bubble. If you extend your
centering efforts down to the clay near the wheel head, the air bubble is
compressed, you center the clay, when pressure is removed, the air bubble
expands and moves your clay.
In our general worldly experience, we equate the application of force with
fast motion. When football players run into each other or a baseball player
hits a home run, we appreciate the forces involved by the speed of the
moving objects. When centering there is considerable force applied without
any motion. Many beginning throwers do not appreciate the amount of force
necessary to move the clay. They just hold on to the clay and let it move
them. If you feel the tension in the arms of an experienced thrower or have
them apply their hands to yours during centering, you will gain appreciation
of the amount of force necessary.
Finally, when a beginning thrower is centering or throwing they often
release pressure on the clay too suddenly. It is not as apparent during
centering as during throwing a vessel wall but the process of applying
pressure to make the clay flow into the desired configuration distorts the
clay. Our hands are not symmetrical and cannot apply pressure evenly. When
we are moving the clay during centering or a pull, we really distort the
shape of the clay. If one does not gradually release the pressure in a way
that sets the clay into a symmetrical shape, the result is an off-center
ball or a misshapen vessel. Ease into it and ease out of it.
With experience, practice, and well developed muscles, many of these things
are non-issues. Many experienced potters say they prefer a little air in
their clay and will wedge clay that has been de-aired so as to introduce
some little bubbles. Some potters will center a clay mass by artfully
removing the non-symmetrical parts from the outside of a clay mass (no,
really). Some potters don't care all that much if the clay is all that
centered.
Soft clay, well wedged, air free, ease on, ease off. Just like that.
Joseph Herbert
Ivor and Olive Lewis on fri 9 apr 04
Dear William Schran,
I am sure most of us would agree with you that having clay in an
easily deformable plastic condition is paramount to ensure success
when learning to throw. Equally we would agree that actions should be
slow and smooth when addressing and retreating from the spinning clay
But we must beware of making assumptions when we give instructions
based mainly on our own techniques and circumstances. I would find it
impossible to contort my body to achieve the pose you suggest while
standing at a tall wheel to save imposing strain on an injured back
while stooping at a low wheel.
As I have already said, when you analyse the mechanics of throwing and
appreciate the "Couples" which come into play between the geometry of
the rotating mass and the static elements of our body structure, we
might have got it all wrong.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Thinking .......Tau = FD Sine Phi.......
lynn on fri 9 apr 04
Dear Ivor,
Thanks for asking. It rotates clockwise. I think I am using clay that is =
too hard. It is stoneware and it had sat most of the winter. I just lost =
my job and am just trying to relieve some of the stress by getting back =
into my pottery. When I drove bus I could work all summer to my hearts =
content, but had to give it up due to neck and back problems. Also I am =
only 5' tall, where should I be in regards to height of wheel when =
sitting?? I am thinking of putting something under my feet to raise =
knees to brace better. I have 50 lbs. of new clay, much softer. I will =
open a bag today and try again with fresher clay. I am pretty much self =
taught from what I learned from a great high school art teacher. My =
first wheel is a Denver firebrick ( I think ) it is so old I can't find =
it anywhere on internet. It is a commercial wheel. I bought it for =
$50.00 from my old art teacher! I made quite a bit of $$ from selling at =
craft fairs and eBay for a few years. Enough to pay for a large electric =
kiln and Brent wheel. I will let you know how it goes.=20
Thanks for the email,
Lynnette
william schran on fri 9 apr 04
Ivor wrote:>But we must beware of making assumptions when we give instructions
based mainly on our own techniques and circumstances. I would find it
impossible to contort my body to achieve the pose you suggest while
standing at a tall wheel to save imposing strain on an injured back
while stooping at a low wheel.<
I agree about making the assumption that the individual having
difficulty with centering would be sitting at a low wheel - but I
would hazard a guess that many, if not most beginning potters are
working at low wheels because that is what most schools/community
centers, etc. provide, due to cost & space considerations. I would
also assume many of these students purchase low wheels because that's
what they learned on.
I would also not suggest anyone standing at a tall wheel use the
method I described, but rather develop a technique that uses ones leg
muscles to provide the steadiness required to help the upper body
remain a steady force against the clay.
Bill
william schran on fri 9 apr 04
Lynette wrote:>Thanks for asking. It rotates clockwise.<
If your wheel rotates clockwise, then reverse your hands - right hand
closer to you, left on the opposite side - gather and steady the clay
with your right hand.
If you have back problems and are sitting at a low wheel, make sure
you bend at the waist and take many, many breaks.
It would be preferable to be able to stand at the wheel if you can
raise the wheel on cinder blocks against a wall.
Some of us "older" potters suffer back problems - many from sitting
at that low turning contraption.
My back problems are from manual labor when I was young and stupid -
now I'm just older.
Bill
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 10 apr 04
Dear William Schran,
Agreed, except that perhaps the stability given by the three point
pose of a seated potter, that triangle given by two legs and a firmly
anchored posterior, is always going to provide greater stability than
the two point pose of a standing worker unless you are able to lean
back to a wall or forward onto the splash pan.
I recall that where I was in a position to use either style of wheel
when teaching throwing that at the high wheels stability of the hands
was achieved by resting one's forearms firmly on the splash pan.
Persistent use of this style could lead to severe bruising when you
tried to master larger volumes of clay.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Lori Leary on tue 24 oct 06
Not about centering, but sort of on the same topic (clay becomes
uncentered because of taking the hands away too quickly). I have found
that novices may tend to pull the pot off-center when taking their hands
away quickly after pulling up. I have always told my students to think
of bicycle brakes when taking their hands away after pulling up....to
pull the hands apart, then move them away from the pot. Slow, specific
and deliberate movements used while learning to throw will soon become
quick, efficient and second nature to a devloping potter.
Hope this makes sense, it's been a long day,
Lori L.
Michael Wendt wrote:
> To add to what mel said about centering,
> The biggest problem I deal with in my
> students is the release. I tell them they
> need to be rigid enough to stop the
> outside centering hand from moving.
> They do that part and then promptly
> jerk their hands away from the clay.
> It never works.
> The other part of centering (and opening
> and throwing) is the release.
> If your wheel is turning 150 rpm
> it takes about 5 seconds to center
> and release SLOWLY so that the
> change really winds up on center.
> Each revolution the run out gets
> to be less until the clay looks
> as if it is standing still even when
> turning.
> Good Luck,
> Michael Wendt
> Wendt Pottery
> 2729 Clearwater Ave
> Lewiston, Idaho 83501
> USA
> wendtpot@lewiston.com
> www.wendtpottery.com
mel jacobson on tue 24 oct 06
centering is the basic step in throwing.
it is done, in my opinion, with the left leg.
that is your largest muscle group. with the
power to center any clay ball.
place your elbow/forearm on the inside of
your thigh. then push your leg with your
arm attached...push...and feel the ball
of clay go to center.
remember,you are moving three pounds of
clay, a half inch.
not a big deal.
when you feel it go into center..wham,
you will always understand it.
and, often, the wheel is going far too fast.
slow down to half speed. the new wheels go so
fast that they kick the ball out of center.
like riding a bike, floating in a pool.
it is a `feeling`, you feel it happen.
then the brain keeps it forever.
use your entire body, not just your arms.
mel
from: mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
Clayart page link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
Maid O'Mud on tue 24 oct 06
Thank you Mel. I just printed this off to
bring to my classes. I've been telling them
this since day 1. Maybe reading it will
help.
Like chicken soup; couldn't hurt
Sam Cuttell
Maid O'Mud Pottery
RR 1
Melbourne, Ontario
N0L 1T0
CANADA
"First, the clay told me what to do.
Then, I told the clay what to do.
Now, we co-operate."
sam 1994
http://www.ody.ca/~scuttell/
scuttell@ody.ca
----- Original Message -----
> centering is the basic step in throwing.
> it is done, in my opinion, with the left leg.
> that is your largest muscle group. with the
> power to center any clay ball.
Randall Moody on tue 24 oct 06
I would also add that you are not trying to push the clay but rather
resisting the clay from pushing you. Bring your elbows in close to your
body so that your body and arms are acting as a unit. If you are right
handed you should have your left hand at about 6:30-7:00 on the wheel head.
I didn't realize how hard it is to explain this without demonstrating. Also,
watch other people center since what works for me may not work for you.
On your first pull keep your thumbs touching ever so slightly. This helps to
keep each hand informed of where the other one is. Most of all DON'T CHASE
THE WOBBLE! I hope this helps. It seems to work for my beginners.
Randall in Atlanta
Mark Tigges on tue 24 oct 06
On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 09:04:05AM -0500, mel jacobson wrote:
> centering is the basic step in throwing.
> it is done, in my opinion, with the left leg.
> that is your largest muscle group. with the
> power to center any clay ball.
>
> place your elbow/forearm on the inside of
> your thigh. then push your leg with your
> arm attached...push...and feel the ball
> of clay go to center.
>
It's a dangerous business disagreeing with someone with that amount of
experience - so I'll just say that I want to amend this statement.
I agree that it should not be so much with the arm, that's for sure.
But I have found that it works best to tuck my left elbow into the
crook of my left hip. That way my arm can be controlled by all the
muscles of the left side of my body, not just the leg. Hunker down,
twist your hip as in a golf swing or so and you can push the whole
wheel over if you want.
I also want to point out that once you get the hang of it, you'll be
able to do it without need for too much force, and your thigh or hip
is only needed for really big clods of clay.
Mark.
--
http://www.m2crafts.ca
m2crafts [at] gmail
Michael Wendt on tue 24 oct 06
To add to what mel said about centering,
The biggest problem I deal with in my
students is the release. I tell them they
need to be rigid enough to stop the
outside centering hand from moving.
They do that part and then promptly
jerk their hands away from the clay.
It never works.
The other part of centering (and opening
and throwing) is the release.
If your wheel is turning 150 rpm
it takes about 5 seconds to center
and release SLOWLY so that the
change really winds up on center.
Each revolution the run out gets
to be less until the clay looks
as if it is standing still even when
turning.
Good Luck,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Lili Krakowski on wed 25 oct 06
If you can make a pizza, for pity's sake, or a loaf of bread, you can
center! I mean it.
Much of what I am going to say has been said here by others. I am just
repeating
in plain folk terms.
1. Your clay should be soft and well wedged. Do not at the beginning
try for a ball of clay bigger than a large orange or small grapefruit--about
3-4 inch diameter.
2. Pat it into a nice round ball. This is a good test for softness...
it should pat easily. If you have to use strength the clay is too hard.
3. Sit comfortably at your wheel. (We get to standing in a mo.)
Most beginners sit too far back Take a yardstick and lay it across the
center
of your wheelhead. It should rest on your knees comfortably, in just about
the
area the heel of your hands rest on when you put your hands on your knees.
Or
about 5-6 inches up from where the holes develop in the knees of your jeans.
That is the proper position. If you are a well endowed female, I humbly
suggest
you wear a maximum exercise sports bra. (Ok. I know who is
going to rip my head off for this....let'her rip!)
4. Slam the clay ball on your wheel head. Not as though to destroy the
universe (Kaboom!!) just firmly so it sticks.
5. Set the wheel in motion. About 30-40 revs per minute. Slow, as in
"Slow" (You do the Tour de France on your OWN time!)
6. Visualize a hole in the exact center of the wheelhead, and imagine its
shaft to be hollow.
Now gently but firmly, as the wheel turns, and with wet, but not dripping
hands,
push inward and downward as though you wanted that clay to go down
that hollow shaft. Close your eyes here. Feel the clay moving inward and
downward.
It does not matter whether you do it with your hands at either side, or one
on top
one at the side...just feel the clay moving inward and downward a bit.
7. If you want to spin it up, do NOT lose focus on the inward movement, UP
is a by product
of IN.
8 RELEASE. If you have anytime dealt with a baby with colic, and the
little one has howled all
night, and you are due at the office in 4 hours, and the little one has just
fallen asleep so you
can catch a nap--YOU DO NOT plop the kid down in its crib as though dropping
a
bag of groceries on the kitchen table. You gently,softly, quietly, EASE the
baby onto its
mattress, hoping that it will not feel the change in its situation. THAT IS
EXACTLY
how gently you remove your hands from the clay when the lump is centered.
You may think experienced potters you have watched just let go, BANG! No
they don't.
The gentle release--which applies all through the throwing process-- becomes
automatic.
If you throw standing --I am about a foot from the center of my wheel and
the wheelhead
is about table height. I think the important part here is that you do not
have to bend
to throw.
Last. Wedge up ten balls of clay. Center, remove from wheel, center next
lump, etc.\
Repeat till centering is automatic, reflexive. You save no a nano second of
time
skipping from centering to opening. First center till you have that down
pat.
THEN repeat the 10 or more balls process just for centering. Yes, students
have cursed me roundly, and lamented their fate, but the process works.
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Lee Love on wed 25 oct 06
On 10/25/06, Michael Wendt wrote:
> The biggest problem I deal with in my
> students is the release. I tell them they
> need to be rigid enough to stop the
> outside centering hand from moving.
> They do that part and then promptly
> jerk their hands away from the clay.
This is really important. It is like the follow through in tennis
or golf. When you think you are finished, don't stop your
attention. As you take your hands away, be aware that your pulling
your hands off of the form is the final aspect of centering.
The wheel does not have to turn quickly to center. Running
the wheel too fast on an electric is a big problem. Try centering
at a slower speed.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Ron Roy on sun 29 oct 06
Hi Mark,
This is how I do it.
I also have found that many simply cannot feel when the clay is centered -
I found (when I used to teach beginners) that if they closed their eyes it
was easier to feel if the clay was centered.
RR
>But I have found that it works best to tuck my left elbow into the
>crook of my left hip. That way my arm can be controlled by all the
>muscles of the left side of my body, not just the leg. Hunker down,
>twist your hip as in a golf swing or so and you can push the whole
>wheel over if you want.
>
>I also want to point out that once you get the hang of it, you'll be
>able to do it without need for too much force, and your thigh or hip
>is only needed for really big clods of clay.
>
>Mark.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Nancy B on mon 30 oct 06
One of my students read a book and found a different way to center clay. I
teach the standard, hook your elbow into your thigh whereever it is
comfortable. He grabs the clay on the opposite side and pulls it toward
himself. I notice he has a lot of control this way. I have tried it and it
works with small amounts of clay for me. I have short fingers so I can't
grab as much of it as he can.
I need to find a different way to center since I am getting a lot of wrist
pain. Anyone have other suggestions?
Nancy
Fredrick Paget on mon 30 oct 06
>
>I need to find a different way to center since I am getting a lot of wrist
>pain. Anyone have other suggestions?
>
Nancy
I have given a lot of thought to this centering thing and have
reached a conclusion that the clay centers most easily if your
actions make it flow in a liquid manner.
I have found the easiest way to do that is to press down at the same
time as pressing inward from the back Use two hand one pressing on
top and one pressing inward.
--
Twin Dragon Studio
Mill Valley, CA, USA
claybair on mon 30 oct 06
Nancy,
My first question is how stiff is your clay?
I started with stiff clay and instantly knew my wrists wouldn't last but a
year.
Since I was hooked and in for the long haul I stopped using stiff clay.
That was 9 years ago (I started at age 50) and I have not had any problems
with
wrist pain again.
I had a friend use her fist which worked for her. I've used that
technique with success on large amounts of (soft) clay.
If none of these offered solutions work for you and no matter what you do
you have
pain I'd suggest looking into a set up like Axner offers. There is an
attachment
that will center the clay for you.
See: http://www.pottery-books.com/axner/equipment/powerarm.php#center
I have not used it and have no connection to Axner other than owning one of
their wheels...
but I also own a Shimpo & CI.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
Tucson, AZ
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Nancy B
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 6:57 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: centering
One of my students read a book and found a different way to center clay. I
teach the standard, hook your elbow into your thigh whereever it is
comfortable. He grabs the clay on the opposite side and pulls it toward
himself. I notice he has a lot of control this way. I have tried it and it
works with small amounts of clay for me. I have short fingers so I can't
grab as much of it as he can.
I need to find a different way to center since I am getting a lot of wrist
pain. Anyone have other suggestions?
Nancy
____________________________________________________________________________
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Bonnie Staffel on tue 31 oct 06
Nancy, it may be that your wrists are starting to hurt from all the
wedging/kneading so when you get on the wheel the wrists continue to be
strained. As a suggestion, I think it would be a good idea to start
thinking about an extruding pug mill. It is well worth the expense if =
you
plan on making clay your lifetime career. You should also think about =
using
softer clay. I use my extruding pug mill to do this as well.
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
iglasgo on tue 31 oct 06
Nancy,
I have delicate wrists too. I tried the pulling method of centering
but found it to be almost as hard on my wrists as regular centering.
What works for me is a homemade low-tech centering jig. It helps
greatly with the initial centering of the mass of the clay and coning
up. Then I cut off whatever uneven bits are left at the top of the
cone, and I'm good to go.
If you are interested in my setup I can send you a photo.
-Ivy G.
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Nancy B wrote:
>
> One of my students read a book and found a different way to center
clay. I
> teach the standard, hook your elbow into your thigh whereever it is
> comfortable. He grabs the clay on the opposite side and pulls it toward
> himself. I notice he has a lot of control this way. I have tried
it and it
> works with small amounts of clay for me. I have short fingers so I
can't
> grab as much of it as he can.
>
> I need to find a different way to center since I am getting a lot of
wrist
> pain. Anyone have other suggestions?
>
> Nancy
>
> _
Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 1 nov 06
Dear Nancy B,
I have met several potters who use the "Pull towards you" style. Jane =
Hamlyn is one though I have not seen the process described in any book I =
have read. I was impressed by Jane's command over clay.
Having tried it I offer the following ideas.=20
It is not necessary to interlink your fingers. The hand you intend using =
as the contact with the clay needs to be well supported by cradling it =
in the palm of the other hand. This give a solid working surface that =
can be flexed to accommodate the changing curvature as the clay respond =
to the pressure exerted on it. There is a position where your thumb tips =
will touch that seems to give good control.
You have a choice of commencing at the summit of your clay pug and =
pressing downward towards the base or pulling in where the clay contacts =
the wheelhead (or bat) and lifting your hands to the peak. This is the =
easier motion if you are applying force by leaning away from the wheel.
I find there is a disadvantage when lifting. This motion tends to move =
clay that is on the outside of the cone and the interior clay does not =
respond with the same degree of urgency. The result is a depression =
forming at the centre of rotation at the top of the cone. To eliminate =
this potential fault you need to apply a "nutcracker" grip with those =
pads at the root of you thumbs.
Regarding potential for injury, people forget that the wrist to hand =
joint is one of the most complex skeletal structure of the human frame. =
It contains eight bone, all of when have to articulate together =
stabilising the ulna and radius of the forearm with the metacarpals that =
form the planar structure of the palm. At the same time the tendons that =
connect your forearm muscles to your finger should move freely. Any =
technique that puts this structure into tension will reduce potential =
for damage. Using another part of your body to transmit force to the =
clay, be it thigh, hip or stomach will lead to undue and unnecessary =
wear on the cartilages. If clay needs that amount of force to make it =
move then it is not sufficiently plastic for the task it has to perform.
I hope these notes are helpful
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Michael Wendt on wed 1 nov 06
One more note to add to the centering
discussion:
Sir Isaac Newton described mathematically
what people have known for generations
about the application of force in a system:
As the point of contact decreases in area,
the force per unit area increases.
Scissors work on this principle.
This same rule applies to centering and throwing.
If you try to center the entire mass with your
hand spread like a mitt, you need to apply
much more force to center than if you apply
the corner of the heel of your hand.
I attack 25 lb pots with a gentle, gradual
centering motion with all the force concentrated
on a very small point. As a result, there is
little effort and no joint pain even after 33 years
of full time production work.
The same idea applies to throwing:
If you reduce the contact area, it is easier
on the hands and joints and there is much
less drag on the clay so it stays up even
when very thin.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
iglasgo on wed 1 nov 06
In response to Nancy and several other people who asked, I have
posted photos and basic instructions to build a homemade
centering jig on my Flickr page.
Like most homemade tools, it's a work in progress. But
even as crude as it is, it has helped me a lot. Check it out:
It's http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivyg/.
-Ivy G.
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, iglasgo wrote:
>
> Nancy,
> I have delicate wrists too. I tried the pulling method of centering
> but found it to be almost as hard on my wrists as regular centering.
> What works for me is a homemade low-tech centering jig. It helps
> greatly with the initial centering of the mass of the clay and coning
> up. Then I cut off whatever uneven bits are left at the top of the
> cone, and I'm good to go.
> If you are interested in my setup I can send you a photo.
> -Ivy G.
>
> --- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Nancy B wrote:
> >
> > One of my students read a book and found a different way to center
> clay. I
> > teach the standard, hook your elbow into your thigh whereever it is
> > comfortable. He grabs the clay on the opposite side and pulls it
toward
> > himself. I notice he has a lot of control this way. I have tried
> it and it
> > works with small amounts of clay for me. I have short fingers so I
> can't
> > grab as much of it as he can.
> >
> > I need to find a different way to center since I am getting a lot of
> wrist
> > pain. Anyone have other suggestions?
> >
> > Nancy
> >
> > _
>
>
___________________________________________________________________________=
___
> Send postings to clayart@...
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@...
>
Donna Kat on wed 8 nov 06
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:22:59 +1030, Ivor and Olive Lewis
wrote:
>Dear Nancy B,
>
>I have met several potters who use the "Pull towards you" style. Jane
Hamlyn is one though I have not seen the process described in any book I
have read. I was impressed by Jane's command over clay.
>
>Having tried it I offer the following ideas.
>
>It is not necessary to interlink your fingers. The hand you intend using
as the contact with the clay needs to be well supported by cradling it in
the palm of the other hand. This give a solid working surface that can be
flexed to accommodate the changing curvature as the clay respond to the
pressure exerted on it. There is a position where your thumb tips will
touch that seems to give good control.
>
>You have a choice of commencing at the summit of your clay pug and
pressing downward towards the base or pulling in where the clay contacts
the wheelhead (or bat) and lifting your hands to the peak. This is the
easier motion if you are applying force by leaning away from the wheel.
>
>I find there is a disadvantage when lifting. This motion tends to move
clay that is on the outside of the cone and the interior clay does not
respond with the same degree of urgency. The result is a depression
forming at the centre of rotation at the top of the cone. To eliminate
this potential fault you need to apply a "nutcracker" grip with those pads
at the root of you thumbs.
>
>Regarding potential for injury, people forget that the wrist to hand
joint is one of the most complex skeletal structure of the human frame. It
contains eight bone, all of when have to articulate together stabilising
the ulna and radius of the forearm with the metacarpals that form the
planar structure of the palm. At the same time the tendons that connect
your forearm muscles to your finger should move freely. Any technique that
puts this structure into tension will reduce potential for damage. Using
another part of your body to transmit force to the clay, be it thigh, hip
or stomach will lead to undue and unnecessary wear on the cartilages. If
clay needs that amount of force to make it move then it is not
sufficiently plastic for the task it has to perform.
>
>I hope these notes are helpful
>
>Best regards,
>
>Ivor Lewis.
Something I have noticed with people having problems centering is that
their problem actually is they are pushing or pulling so hard to get it
centered that they don't learn to go very soft at the end to allow removal
of their hands. So they actually have it centered and then they off
center it when they let go. Most of your centering can actually be done
with patting the clay to center before you have put any water on it.
Wheel wedging it then does the smoothing, aligning and the finished
centering. It is in shaping (doming?) where people think they are still
centering and putting much more force on it than need be. It is here
where a light touch works really well.
Just how I see things.
Donna Kat
Donna Kat on sat 10 feb 07
Two things I have noticed with people who are having a hard time centering
is that
1. They don't slowly and softly release their grip (so they actually have
the clay centered but then immediately let go and in doing so hit it off
center again.
2. They don't clean off the wheel head if they have not patted well to
center - that is after they do the initial centering, there might be a
little lump that is off center and right down on the wheel head. It is
too low to be able to push in so every time the wheel revolves it hits the
palm of the hand, jars you just a little and throws things off. So if you
pat to center, do your first push in, just then use your finger to cut
down and out to trim off anything that is too low to be able to center in
you eliminate this problem.
I'm afraid I haven't explained this very well. These are both things that
seem quite obvious if you know it but if you don't it is hard to recognize.
Donna
Lili Krakowski on sat 10 feb 07
Centering is a group effort. You need the clay at the right consistency.
You need the wheel at the right speed. You need to use the correct muscles.
You need to use YOUR hands in the way best for YOU.
So. If the clay is too hard, and the wheel too swift you cannot center. No
one can. People who try this too often end up with tendonitis, carpal
tunnel, and similar miseries.
Wedge up clay of different consistencies. From very soft (spreadable
butter) to pretty hard (cream cheese just out of the fridge.) Make sure the
balls of clay are the same size. No no not some laboratory test, just get
them to feel and look the same.
Center them one after another, see what works best.
Too many people try to center too fast. Again and again I mention how
slowly my wheel turns. (under 40 revs per minute) The order does not
matter, but either before or after (gee, that is bright!) you have tested
what clay consistency is best, start centering balls of clay of that
consistency at different wheel speeds. Start with what you are doing now,
next piece slower, next piece slower yet.
Lee is on the right track. Method of wedging can be big factor.
And a cantankerous note: Far too little attention is paid to clay
consistency and to wheel speed. My guess is that about half, at least half
the problems reported about throwing come from consistency and speed.
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
mel jacobson on thu 28 aug 08
i also teach all centering to be done with the
legs. placing the elbow inside the thigh/knee
and push with the leg. i never use my arms, and
my students did not either.
it makes it possible to center 5 lbs almost
the first time they learn.
i have changed to softer clay as i age, and slow
the wheel even more.
i have always used my legs....they are strong.
i have found that when students (14 on up.) use
too small a ball of clay, they lose control.
i boost the size of the ball, and bingo, goes right in.
i do brag....but, i could get 75 new kids centered
and throwing the first week, most the first day.
i had veteran kids teach centering the first three days.
everyone had a mentor. no one in the program made
their own pots until every new kid could center.
place your knee against their knee...and push.
(it is very important to establish trust in the room
the first day...let them know we will be in physical
contact.....and, if they are shy...we will find another
way....it is that trust that makes things work. not
a student in 35 years complained...they understood
what was going on.)
many electric potters wheels have far toooo high
an rpm. slow them down. you do not need high
speed to center on a power wheel....a kick wheel, yes.
and that is where all this high speed centering came from.
it is an old teaching aid, and it never changed...speed
up the wheel for center...no you don't.
my wheel in japan went one speed...they all went
the same speed, and you never stopped it. center,
throw, pluck the pot off. slow, easy. your mind
becomes of part of that easy speed.
i watch kids on a wheel going Hundreds of rpm.
they are frantic. slow down...enjoy the process.
and, i have said this many times on clayart...throwing
is easier than hand building. i had my students graduate
to hand building...once they could throw, understood the
pull of the clay...had some success, they moved by themselves
to hand building.
many do not agree with me...but, i insist that learning to
throw, feel the stretch of the materials, understand the pug
mill, how clay works....then quality hand building follows.
i hate the jr. high snake pots that fall apart, animals with
stick legs, they too fall apart in the kiln.
coil and smear, measure and build...make pots by hand
that are more perfect than a wheel thrown pot.
we had a picture of an african woman...making a huge coil
pot /on our wall. i would tell kids...make a hand made pot
like mrs. mugambie....perfection...they would shrink from that
project...that is hand building. not slop.
i will put her picture on my website....clayart page.
also included a great pix of japanese potters making a huge
pot. i had pix like this all over the pottery room.
it brought a bit of humility. and, how nice to discuss how
people made pots through history.
mel
you look at those pix, then think of those that complain
because there new brent wheel is off a thousand/th of an inch.
from minnetonka:
website http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart site:
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
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