WardBurner@aol.com on wed 15 may 96
Jeez, I should have known better than to get on this horse. Pete, I
didn't mean my post to be an attack on you. Sorry if I offended. My wife and
I have learned one important thing; disagreements are rarely about the
subject you are arguing over. When I made my comments about the "ceramic
fiber is death incarnate" subject, I guess it was an expression of my
frustration with what I see as a "culture of fear" in this society
(apologizes to folks outside the USA). I made my post in defense of Steve
Branfman using an electric kiln to Raku. From there I wandered onto my
soapbox..... I think, though, it's still under my feet. Western society, the
news media, and advertising have helped bring a certain fear factor into our
lives. Are my clothes white enough? Am I going to lose my meaningful
relationship because my arm pits don't smell like springtime? Is my breath
offensive? Will my car embarrass me at valet parking or will it be carjacked
going home? Should I get a household security system? Am I over my credit
limit on my VISA? I think there's even a suggestion I might be susceptible to
a yeast infection.
We all assume risks. I think it's a safe bet that I expose myself to more
hazards from RCF (Refractory Ceramic Fiber) than anyone on this list.
Building 50-100 fiber Raku kilns a year is putting my respiratory health on
the line. I wear a respirator... wear long sleeves... have a state of the art
vacuum system. I also have a huge file full of test results.... long term
studies on RCF workers.... Animal studies...I know the difference between
class 2a & class 2b carcinogens. I also know the glorious thing we call life
is chock full of nasty crap.
I think what this particular discussion boils down to is our approach to
life.
You said that you avoid certain busy streets during certain times of the
day. Also, when it's nasty winter weather, you take the bus. That's the way
you embrace life and find meaning. Why take a chance of killing yourself in a
wreck when your 3 year old son needs the long term love & support of a
father? This is a real concern and by practicing it you show your value as a
father.
I show my value as a father & grandfather in different ways. I take the
busy street sometimes, take the back roads other times. When the roads are
white and slippery, I like to get out and drive. It's a challenge, my lunch
tastes a little bit better and the air smells a bit sharper if I've made 4
sideways attempts at getting up the hill to the post office and finally
succeed. You say, "understanding the risks of driving helps me to control
them." Pete how are you in control? If you take the bus, you are not
controlling the risks, you are giving the control to the bus driver and
removing yourself from responsibility. We chose our risks and I believe, for
sanity's sake, we all like to think we're in control of more things than we
really are. My sister-in law was as organized as anyone I knew. A weeks worth
of meals cooked, labeled, and in the freezer. Appointments and "things to do"
lists broken down into 5 & 15 minute increments. Man, she was in control. A
year ago, at age 45, she dropped dead of a cerebral hemmorage. Just like
flipping a light switch and she was gone.
Sometime ago I went rock climbing with an old college buddy.... I about wet
myself and most likely will never go back. He on the other hand thought this
was a pleasant way to spend the afternoon. He shakes his head in amazement
and thinks I'm crazy for being self-employed... We chose our risks based on
what we THINK we control.
Being informed is the basis for assuming responsibility for the risks we
chose to take. I know that is the spirit of your post. I was probably too
quick and too flip when I made my post. What I was saying was....we chose our
risks. What some feel is an unacceptable risk, others embrace. Fear kills
reason and there's too much fear in our world. I think the Luddites are again
getting a foothold.
We have a responsibility to the people on this list to provide them with
accurate information. Who really knows what's accurate? I have long-term test
studies of workers in the RCF industry. They show an incidence of 12.5% for
the development of pleural plaques in workers with 20+ years of exposure.
These pleural plaques are not known to cause symptoms or disability or lead
to cancer. I know, I know, your thinking this guy has rationalized what he's
doing.... I have a suspicion that studies generally show what the researchers
are looking for.
I watch the Sunday TV political pundits. One says "this is true" the other
says "no it's not, this is true". Who do you believe? What's the truth? These
are the "experts" and they disagree!!! It boils down to the individual. We
CHOSE OUR RISKS based on what we CHOSE TO BELIEVE. Then we accept the
consequences based on our choices. Here's what I feel is the bottom line
about fiber;
Ceramic Fiber is a potentially dangerous nuisance dust that you should
protect yourself against during installation. After fiber has been repeatedly
exposed to 1600F or higher it becomes a source of cristobolite (a form of
free silica ) and is even more dangerous. Brick dust is just as dangerous. It
just doesn't stay airborne as long. I BELIEVE making clay & glazes is even
more dangerous than using a fiber kiln. Please follow the safety precautions
Pete has outlined below, I do.... Well, I admit, I don't wash out the washing
machine.
As far as the animal studies, constant 24 hr. exposure, at low levels, over
months is something, I don't believe relates to a potter stuffing a hunk of
fiber in a crack. I just don't believe one can extrapolate the findings of
one into dire warnings for the other. I still think those little rodents wind
up getting "thousands and thousands" of times more particles, IN RELATION TO
THEIR LUNG SIZE, than a potter who fills a crack once or twice a year. Yes,
it's only a couple of milligrams/cm, but it is constant, with no relief, for
a long term, in lungs the size of a bean.
As far as the knife analogy.... When I was about 10 my dad told me I was
getting ready to cut myself with a pruning saw. I ignored him, I knew how to
use a saw...he let me continue and I proceeded to cut myself pretty well. I
admire that man for suppressing his desire to protect his son from a short
term hurt to teach his son a long term lesson. The lesson: we all are
responsible for the consequences of our actions and the control we think we
have is most often illusionary.
Marc Ward
Ward Burner Systems
PO Box 333
Dandridge, TN 37725
423.397.2914 voice
423.397.1253 fax
wardburner@aol.com
Pete wrote:
<<<<to
bring it up again. However, I thought it was obvious from some of the
kiln questions that the writers were not aware of this information, most
likely because they have just recently joined the list.
Yes, life is full of risks, but knowing and understanding those risks
allows a person to minimize them where possible. I drive a car every
day, but I avoid high risk streets at certain times of day, and on icy
days I take the bus. Understanding the risks of driving helps me to
control them.
The lab animals that developed cancers from ceramic fiber were NOT exposed
to "thousand and thousands of times" what we are. In fact, their exposure
was in the order of a couple of milligrams per cubic meter of air. I hate
to tell you, but this is a heck of a lot less than is released when a
potter casually tears off a chunk of fiber to stuff a crack in a kiln. Of
course the animals were exposed to those amounts twenty four hours a day,
while most potters are exposed only periodically.
How does it change things that we as potters tend to expose ourselves to
high amounts of fiber on a periodic basis, while the test animals had a
constant, low-level level exposure? How does it change things that they are
rats, mice and gerbels, while we are humans? How does it change things
that we (potters) as a group represent both genders, a wide range of ages,
and the complete range of health and fitness? How does it change things
that some of us come from genetic backrounds free of cancer, while others
(like my wife, for instance) come from families where practically everyone
dies of cancer?
There are so many variables that it is impossible for even the most
informed expert to predict who will get cancer, and at what level of
exposure. While many, many asbestos workers developed cancer from their
job-related exposures, many more (a large majority) did not.
Its my opinion that the fiber manufacturers have behaved very responsibly.
They are the ones who have sponsored the testing and published the
results through their industry association, The Refractory Ceramic
Fibers Coalition. Based on their research, they publish information on
what they believe is the safe use of fiber. From their literature:
"Are RCFs safe to manufacture, install and use?"
"yes, when recommended work practices are STRICTLY ADHERED TO."
(emphasis mine).
And what are those recommended work practices? They include the following:
"Use engineering controls, such as local exhaust or dust collecting
systems to minimize airborne dust."
"Use appropriate NIOSH/MSHA approved respirators to avoid breathing fiber
particulates and dust."
"Wear full body clothing, gloves, hat and eye protection."
"Clean up with high efficiency particulate air (hepa) filtered vacuum or
wet sweeping."
"If you take work clothing home, it is recommended you vacuum your
clothes with a HEPA filtered vacuum before leaving the work area."
"Wash work clothes separately from other clothing. Rinse washer after use."
Do you know many potters who "strictly adhere" to these practices? Mind
you, these are just the ones recommended by the fiber manufacturers.
They are much less stringent than those recommended by the AFL-CIO, (not
surprisingly).
I like your knife analogy. Yes, I keep very sharp knives in my home (I
like to cook), but it is with an understanding of both the potential
dangers, and the ways to minimize those dangers. On the other hand, I do
not let my three-year-old son play with them (despite his many vociferous
requests). Joe is quite confident in his abilitiy to use a sharp knife,
but his is a confidence based in ignorance: he neither appreciates the
danger, nor understands the methods for minimizing it.
I am certainly not saying that no one should ever use ceramic fiber. I'm
only saying that people should know about it before using it. Fiber has
very real thermal advantages in some situations, but at other times it is
quite inferior to other, safer refractorys such as ifb. I think that we
have become a bit too casual in its use. If we are going to use it, we
should do so with the knowledge and experience of an adult, and not with
the blind confidence of a three year old child.
Sorry about the length of this post.
Pete Pinnell
BTW, there have been animal studies done on gravel dust (calcium
carbonate). It is not a carcinogen at any level of exposure. However,
breathing large amounts over long periods of time can cause other
respiratory problems.>>>>
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