Karen Gringhuis on tue 23 sep 97
Can anyone recommend a ceramic fiber "paper" thin enough to put
beneath the feet of porcelain pots so they don't chip when shrinking
across a kiln shelf in firing? I have tired the one from Georgie's
but at 1/16th inch thick, it comes up enough to stick to the
glaze edge. Unless I cut it exactly to the diameter of the foot
& tack it on w/ Elmer's - which I MAY do.
I have a sample of fiber cloth from Zircar which is a bit thinner
& might be recyclable but is quite expensive.
Any advice would be appreciated. (NO, I am NOT going to sprinkle
Al hydrate on the shelves! And mixing Al into a first waxing
performs erratically - maybe I don't stir it often enough.)
Karen Gringhuis
Nils Lou on wed 24 sep 97
Karen, Lytherm products makes a ceramic fiber paper 1/32" thick, but I
suggest you try brushing on a mixture of alumina hydrate and wax. Applied
to the foot the wax/alumina mixture provides a thin coating right where
you need it and it works. You might want to use wax alone at the glaze
edge and then use the mixture for the foot itself. This prevents any
alumina contaminating the glaze edge. NL
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Karen Gringhuis wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Can anyone recommend a ceramic fiber "paper" thin enough to put
> beneath the feet of porcelain pots so they don't chip when shrinking
> across a kiln shelf in firing? I have tired the one from Georgie's
> but at 1/16th inch thick, it comes up enough to stick to the
> glaze edge. Unless I cut it exactly to the diameter of the foot
> & tack it on w/ Elmer's - which I MAY do.
>
> I have a sample of fiber cloth from Zircar which is a bit thinner
> & might be recyclable but is quite expensive.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated. (NO, I am NOT going to sprinkle
> Al hydrate on the shelves! And mixing Al into a first waxing
> performs erratically - maybe I don't stir it often enough.)
> Karen Gringhuis
>
Pierre Brayford on wed 24 sep 97
Karen Gringhuis wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Can anyone recommend a ceramic fiber "paper" thin enough to put
> beneath the feet of porcelain pots so they don't chip when shrinking
> across a kiln shelf in firing?
> Karen GringhuisTry rolling out wadding (Al hydrate & Kaolin) into a sheet abou
thick - cut into pieces put under feet when dry. The pieces may survive
for more than one firing.
Many Mused on wed 24 sep 97
I get this 1/8" thick and thicker for glass fusing- has an organic glue in
it; not reusable.
Try your local glass supplier, or email/call me.
Mary Klotz foresthrt@aol.com
Forestheart Studio (301) 845-4447
Woodsboro (near Frederick) MD
11-5 east coast time; closed Wed. and Sun.
Vince Pitelka on wed 24 sep 97
At 06:49 AM 9/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Can anyone recommend a ceramic fiber "paper" thin enough to put
>beneath the feet of porcelain pots so they don't chip when shrinking
>across a kiln shelf in firing? I have tired the one from Georgie's
>but at 1/16th inch thick, it comes up enough to stick to the
>glaze edge. Unless I cut it exactly to the diameter of the foot
>& tack it on w/ Elmer's - which I MAY do.
Karen -
This seems a very expensive way to go, even if you can reuse the disks of
cereamic paper. With an appropriate shelf wash I have never had this
problem. Ages ago, in production in California, I had this problem a lot,
but I was coating my silcar shelves with a paint roller, using a mixture of
aluminum paint and China clay. It worked great for everything except
porcelain. I quit using porcelain for a number of other reasons and
therefore did not modify my shelf-coating. But since then I have been in so
many school situations, and as long as we use a good shelf wash on silcar
shelves we never have this problem.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Jennifer M. Dubats on mon 26 oct 98
Hello,
I was reading John Baymore's post on ceramic fiber blanket and noticed that he
mentioned ceramic paper. I read in a book about porcelain that an artist used
ceramic paper under each piece when firing, instead of kiln wash, to prevent
chipping of the feet on porcelain items. Has anyone heard of the ceramic
paper being used this way? If so where can ceramic paper be purchased and
would this be an overly expensive solution?
Thanks for your replies,
Jenny Dubats
Martin A. Arkowitz on tue 27 oct 98
I was reading John Baymore's post on ceramic fiber blanket and noticed that he
mentioned ceramic paper. I read in a book about porcelain that an artist used
ceramic paper under each piece when firing, instead of kiln wash, to prevent
chipping of the feet on porcelain items. Has anyone heard of the ceramic
paper being used this way? If so where can ceramic paper be purchased and
would this be an overly expensive solution?
Thanks for your replies,
Jenny Dubats
................................................................................
Barbara Lewis on tue 27 oct 98
Jenny, I have seen it used this way and have considered ordering some, but
haven't gotten around to it. Several years ago Val Cushing mentioned the
paper at a workshop I attended. He said that you can use it for
approximately 15 firings. My local ceramic supplier in the VA/MD area
carries it. I would just inquire with your local ceramic supplier -- I'll
be they carry it. Barbara
At 09:44 AM 10/26/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hello,
>
>I was reading John Baymore's post on ceramic fiber blanket and noticed that he
>mentioned ceramic paper. I read in a book about porcelain that an artist used
>ceramic paper under each piece when firing, instead of kiln wash, to prevent
>chipping of the feet on porcelain items. Has anyone heard of the ceramic
>paper being used this way? If so where can ceramic paper be purchased and
>would this be an overly expensive solution?
>
>
>Thanks for your replies,
>
>
>Jenny Dubats
>
Wellspring Clayworks
5412 Well Spring Road
La Plata, MD 20646
blewis@crosslink.net
Stephen Mills on wed 28 oct 98
Ceramic fibre paper is certainly made by the makers of Fiberfrax (I
don't know about other manufacturers), and is available in 1mm & 2mm
grades.
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Jennifer M. Dubats writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hello,
>
>I was reading John Baymore's post on ceramic fiber blanket and noticed that he
>mentioned ceramic paper. I read in a book about porcelain that an artist used
>ceramic paper under each piece when firing, instead of kiln wash, to prevent
>chipping of the feet on porcelain items. Has anyone heard of the ceramic
>paper being used this way? If so where can ceramic paper be purchased and
>would this be an overly expensive solution?
>
>
>Thanks for your replies,
>
>
>Jenny Dubats
>
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
home e-mail: stevemills@mudslinger.demon.co.uk
work e-mail: stevemills@bathpotters.demon.co.uk
own website: http://www.mudslinger.demon.co.uk
BPS website: http://www.bathpotters.demon.co.uk
Jim Bozeman on wed 28 oct 98
Jenny, You can get ceramic fiber paper at Georgie's in Portland, Oregon.
Jim Bozeman
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
John Baymore on thu 29 oct 98
------------------
(snip)
I read in a book about porcelain that an artist used ceramic paper under
each piece when firing, instead of kiln wash, to prevent chipping of the
feet on porcelain items. Has anyone heard of the ceramic paper being used
this way? If so where can ceramic paper be purchased and would this be an
overly expensive solution?
(snip)
Jenny,
Hi. I too saw the article that you mentioned. And I have heard of others
doing this too.
In my opinion this is the most rediculous (sp), mis-adapted, wasteful, and
hazardous use of fiber paper that I can think of. Other things will solve
the problem cheaper, more effectively, and safer.
I don't usually get that sweeping and generalized about saying things (as
anyone who has followed my posts over the past four years or so can
attest). But this =22fiber paper kilnwash=22 technique is really a BAD =
idea.
=22Fiber paper hogwash=22 is more like it. Does it work.....yes. Should =
you
do it....NO. Just because something CAN be done does it mean that it
SHOULD be done?
I understand that it is not YOUR idea...... not criticizing you. Just
lamenting the power of the press, I guess =3Cg=3E.
Fiber paper has it's place (and from listening to Monona I am beginning to
think that that those places are getting fewer and fewer =3Cwg=3E)....... =
and
THIS use certainly is NOT one of them. You'd contaminate all of your kiln
furniture (and the interior of the kiln) with fiber dust for no good
reason. (If there is ever a good reason to get fiber dust around.)
Extreme care needs to be exercised in using ANY fiber product...at the
minimum. Possibly we should be looking at not using it anymore, based on
ongoing research being shared by people like Monona. We've known for a
long time that it is hazardous....this is not new stuff. It may be
becoming clear that it is FAR more hazardous than we (potters)
thought...... and we already thought it was pretty bad stuff.
See the other posts of mine and Monona's and others on this subject before
using the stuff.
Remember that a lot of what you will see about ceramics in articles in
magazines, books, and on the Internet is not necessarily correct,
understood by the author, well researched, well documented, well edited or
reviewed by the editor, and so on. This unfortunately makes the task of
separating the wheat from the chaff tough...... but that's just the way of
the world =3Cg=3E.
In all fairness I gotta say that this post fits into the category too =
=3Cg=3E.
Do your homework before accepting most anything you are told or read
.....particularly where your (and others) health is concerned.
Most any good refractory supplier will have access to fiber paper if you
still feel that you MUST have it. For some OTHER use, of course =3Cg=3E.
Best,
.....................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752
JBaymore=40Compuserve.com
Don & Isao Morrill on thu 29 oct 98
At 11:18 10/27/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I was reading John Baymore's post on ceramic fiber blanket and noticed
that he
>mentioned ceramic paper. I read in a book about porcelain that an artist
used
>ceramic paper under each piece when firing, instead of kiln wash, to prevent
>chipping of the feet on porcelain items. Has anyone heard of the ceramic
>paper being used this way? If so where can ceramic paper be purchased and
>would this be an overly expensive solution?
>
>Thanks for your replies,
>
>Jenny Dubats,We have often used Kaowool paper for covering the floor of
old drippy kilns.Even when it has broken under extended us,the bits and
pieces may be used beneath pots until it finally disappears. Isao & Don
>...........................................................................
.....
>
>
Karen Gringhuis on fri 30 oct 98
Jenny - I too saw this mentioned in a book. With much effort I found
some ceramic fiber "paper." It is 1/16 - 1/8" thick. I tried putting
it under th efeet of my post & it was a disaster. Each disc would
have to be custom cut & I found them NOT to be recylable - they tended
to disintegrate. Ceramic fiber anything is a bit dangerous & a
pain to work w/. I cut the discs larget than the feet & during
firing they rose up and stuck the the edge of the glaze on the
pots. Although the industrial supplier personnel were DOLLS
in ehlping me and sending samples, etc. I abandoned this
approach.
What I do do is to first wax the center of my foot ring w/ a mix
of emul. wax and alumina hydrate - lots of hydrate well stirred
often. Keep this in the cneter of the foot ring so it does
NOT touch the glaze. When this dries (not long) I then over wax
as usual w/ plain emul. wax. I use India ink to color the alumina
wax black and red for the regular wax - to see where I've been etc.
W/ ENOUGH al hy this works well for me. After firing I have a light
dusting of al hy left on the foot ring which wipes right off.
The result is almost zero foot chips.
I have always been intrigued w/ thoe practice of just dusting the kiln shelf
w/ alumina (?) but have never tried it.
any qns write me privately because I am signing off Clay art for a
few weeks. Good luck. Karen Gringhuis
Jennifer M. Dubats on fri 30 oct 98
Thanks John for the response on ceramic fiber paper. After reading your post
and taking into consideration airborne contaminants and the price of the
paper. I think I will stick to adding alumina hydrate to my wax. I just hate
coating kiln shelves with wash and I really dislike chipped feet on pots. I
thought I might have found a way to avoid both things, but apparently not.
Sincerely,
Jenny Dubats
RedIron Studios on sat 31 oct 98
Hi Karen,
I am at a studio here in Vancouver where the shelves are just dusted
with Alumina Hydrate. I'm asking one of my studio mates, "Has it ever blown into
any of your glazes?" "No he says, but of course you must be careful loading so
you don't brush alimina onto pots" I'm thinking yeah it would be me that would
upon loadind the last shelf have an accident that would require me to unload the
whole kiln. Now as far as how does it work. Seems to work great. These shelves
are in excellent condition. Also if all you use is Alumina Hydrate there is
little
worry in flipping your shelves from time to time..
Cheers
-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Gringhuis
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: ceramic fiber paper
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Jenny - I too saw this mentioned in a book. With much effort I found
some ceramic fiber "paper." It is 1/16 - 1/8" thick. I tried putting
it under th efeet of my post & it was a disaster. Each disc would
have to be custom cut & I found them NOT to be recylable - they tended
to disintegrate. Ceramic fiber anything is a bit dangerous & a
pain to work w/. I cut the discs larget than the feet & during
firing they rose up and stuck the the edge of the glaze on the
pots. Although the industrial supplier personnel were DOLLS
in ehlping me and sending samples, etc. I abandoned this
approach.
What I do do is to first wax the center of my foot ring w/ a mix
of emul. wax and alumina hydrate - lots of hydrate well stirred
often. Keep this in the cneter of the foot ring so it does
NOT touch the glaze. When this dries (not long) I then over wax
as usual w/ plain emul. wax. I use India ink to color the alumina
wax black and red for the regular wax - to see where I've been etc.
W/ ENOUGH al hy this works well for me. After firing I have a light
dusting of al hy left on the foot ring which wipes right off.
The result is almost zero foot chips.
I have always been intrigued w/ thoe practice of just dusting the kiln shelf
w/ alumina (?) but have never tried it.
any qns write me privately because I am signing off Clay art for a
few weeks. Good luck. Karen Gringhuis
Jean Stephenson on sun 1 nov 98
I've used alumina hydrate for dusting shelves but I no longer do. I wear a
great mask when loading and unloading, but it wasn't sufficient as I still
had an asthmatic type of reaction from the dusting. It did work great
though, never got on the work, could flip shelves if you wanted, and no
puddles! So I add a little to my wax but my shelves are now kiln washed
too. Best of luck. Jean
-----Original Message-----
From: RedIron Studios
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: ceramic fiber paper
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hi Karen,
> I am at a studio here in Vancouver where the shelves are just dusted
>with Alumina Hydrate. I'm asking one of my studio mates, "Has it ever blown
into
>any of your glazes?" "No he says, but of course you must be careful loading
so
>you don't brush alimina onto pots" I'm thinking yeah it would be me that
would
>upon loadind the last shelf have an accident that would require me to
unload the
>whole kiln. Now as far as how does it work. Seems to work great. These
shelves
>are in excellent condition. Also if all you use is Alumina Hydrate there is
>little
>worry in flipping your shelves from time to time..
>
>Cheers
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Karen Gringhuis
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 5:44 AM
>Subject: Re: ceramic fiber paper
>
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Jenny - I too saw this mentioned in a book. With much effort I found
>some ceramic fiber "paper." It is 1/16 - 1/8" thick. I tried putting
>it under th efeet of my post & it was a disaster. Each disc would
>have to be custom cut & I found them NOT to be recylable - they tended
>to disintegrate. Ceramic fiber anything is a bit dangerous & a
>pain to work w/. I cut the discs larget than the feet & during
>firing they rose up and stuck the the edge of the glaze on the
>pots. Although the industrial supplier personnel were DOLLS
>in ehlping me and sending samples, etc. I abandoned this
>approach.
>
>What I do do is to first wax the center of my foot ring w/ a mix
>of emul. wax and alumina hydrate - lots of hydrate well stirred
>often. Keep this in the cneter of the foot ring so it does
>NOT touch the glaze. When this dries (not long) I then over wax
>as usual w/ plain emul. wax. I use India ink to color the alumina
>wax black and red for the regular wax - to see where I've been etc.
>W/ ENOUGH al hy this works well for me. After firing I have a light
>dusting of al hy left on the foot ring which wipes right off.
>
>The result is almost zero foot chips.
>
>I have always been intrigued w/ thoe practice of just dusting the kiln
shelf
>w/ alumina (?) but have never tried it.
>
>any qns write me privately because I am signing off Clay art for a
>few weeks. Good luck. Karen Gringhuis
>
| |
|
