rebecca.j.knight on thu 27 feb 97
In her original message, Linda asked why anyone would buy a clay body.
I don't have the facilities to mix my own clay bodies. I found a commercial
supplier
with a clay that fires to a color I like, works with my glazes, and has the
properties I want. Therefore, I pay the extra for this commercial body. The
price of
my preferred body is not as high as your friend's body, so the difference
between
making my own and buying commercial is not as great. It's also a lot easier
and
less time consuming!
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
In answer to Mel's thoughts about short clay and tiles - true, you don't
have to age clay much to make tiles. If I'm making a sink, that is another
matter. However, I find that two weeks is plenty of time for the clay to
really take on its water and be ready to go over the hump mold for the
sink.
I was looking at a clay for a friend who buys prepared clay and a ton of
that clay, a cone 4-6, red clay, was $440, before delivery. My clay body,
with a lot of expensive grog, would cost about $216, before delivery. The
bonus is that I really get 2400 pounds because the dry ingredients I get
are all clay, no water. So to get the same amount of clay would cost my
friend another $88. Now why would someone spend 528 dollars for 216
dollars worth of clay? Just a thought.
Linda
Ithaca, NY
Dave and Pat Eitel on fri 28 feb 97
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>In her original message, Linda asked why anyone would buy a clay body.
>I don't have the facilities to mix my own clay bodies. I found a commercial
>supplier
>with a clay that fires to a color I like, works with my glazes, and has the
>properties I want. Therefore, I pay the extra for this commercial body. The
>price of
>my preferred body is not as high as your friend's body, so the difference
>between
>making my own and buying commercial is not as great. It's also a lot easier
>and
>less time consuming!
Having others mix my clay makes a lot of sense to me. I did the mixing my
own thing for a couple of years until I realized how time- and
space-consuming it is to mix clay, store dry ingredients, house a mixer or
whatever. So now the clay costs me 24 cents to make a $12 mug instead of 12
cents. Big deal.
Later...Dave
Dave Eitel
Cedar Creek Pottery
Cedarburg, WI
pots@cedarcreekpottery.com
http://www.cedarcreekpottery.com
Tony Hansen on sat 1 mar 97
> Having others mix my clay makes a lot of sense to me.
I agree. Don't expose yourself to any more clay dust than you have to. Please.
LINDA BLOSSOM on mon 3 mar 97
Dave,
Big deal? The cost difference of .09 per pound versus .22 per pound is a
big deal. You cannot just take it by the single mug. I don't find that it
takes any more space to store the raw materials than it did to store the
boxes of mixed clay. I also know that if I need to alter the body, it is an
easy matter. The mixer, in my case the peter pugger, does not take up that
much room. I don't have to deal with all the plastic bags and boxes, nor
do I have to handle such compact boxes weighing 50 pounds. When I am ready
to work, I pug clay out of the mixer, pugging only what I need. The last
mixed is the last used. I throw it back in the pugger and repug it to the
length I need, after it has aged. Last night I mixed clay - I did 700
pounds and it took me about two hours. I store in in long pugs, standing
upright in a large plastic container I got a Kmart. I also know that
whatever I want to go into that clay, it is in there. I do not have to
take my clay body on faith. The cost is a big deal when you buy more than a
few hundred pounds.
Linda
Ithaca, NY
The Shelfords on mon 3 mar 97
>>In her original message, Linda asked why anyone would buy a clay body.
>Having others mix my clay makes a lot of sense to me. I did the mixing my
>own thing for a couple of years until I realized how time- and
>space-consuming it is to mix clay, store dry ingredients, house a mixer or
>whatever. So now the clay costs me 24 cents to make a $12 mug instead of 12
>cents. Big deal.
>
>Later...Dave
I agree. Apart from the inconvenience, the older you get (and I'm getting
there at breakneck speed!) the more you start thinking about reasonable
trade-offs. So I lose a few cents on the clay for the mug. I am gaining
time and strength to make an extra mug (and the profit on that extra mug
more than pays for the loss on the clay for many more mugs etc. to come.)
As Michael Cardew said in a video, as he was demonstrating a sort of
pat-a-cake technique for centering and throwing a large pot, that as you get
older, what you lack in strength you make up in guile. (By the way, can
anyone identify that video for me? I saw it years ago at a workshop, and
would love to get it but don't know the source.)
Veronica Shelford
Moore Hill Pottery (someday...)
e-mail: shelford@island.net
s-mail: P.O. Box 6-15
Thetis Island, BC V0R 2Y0
Tel: (250) 246-1509
"Gullibility is the key to all adventures. The greenhorn is the ultimate
victor in all things; it is he who gets the most out of life." Chesterton
Veronica Shelford
e-mail: shelford@island.net
s-mail: P.O. Box 6-15
Thetis Island, BC V0R 2Y0
Tel: (250) 246-1509
"Gullibility is the key to all adventures. The greenhorn is the ultimate
victor in all things; it is he who gets the most out of life." Chesterton
LINDA BLOSSOM on mon 3 mar 97
I never realized how defensive folks were about using bagged clay. One of
the reasons I left bagged clay was because of its shelf life. My clay is
highly grogged and the longer it sat the drier it got. Perhaps the grog
took on more water as it sat. (maybe clay sets?). I was turned on to the
idea of mixing by Carl Miller before he sold out and left Miller clay. It
had never occurred to me to mix it until he suggested making hand batches
to get my clay body finalized. From that suggestion, I went on to mixing
all of the clay. I find the pug size from my mixer to be perfect for my
extruder and slab roller. I also have the freedom to make the length of
pug that I need, rather than trying to piece together slices of the
rectangle from the boxed pug. I guess making clay is like stacking
firewood. If I do it while I am in my fifties, then I will be able to do
it when I am in my eighties. This is not the decade to take it easy. I do
wear a mask while I am mixing and only mix at the end of the day so that I
can leave when I am done and let the dust settle overnight. I also have a
Beam central vacuum that helps keep dust cleaned up without sweeping or
otherwise disturbing it unnecessarily.
Linda
Ithaca, NY
Jonathan Kaplan on tue 4 mar 97
I used to have a prejudice against "clay in the box" after all, don't "real
potters" mix their own?
At this point, I think I have the best of all possible worlds. I can mix
and pug my own if I want to. Mile Hi in Denver premixes all my shop casting
clays dry and plastic blends dry. I blend the casting stuff here with
Darvan and seive the materials before casting through a Sweco. I buy alot
of premade prepared bodies for each of my clients as they have specific
needs. If it is a big project, I'll also buy their clays as a dry blend and
remix here.
I really don't think it makes a difference, only that you have to trust
your producer, and this is a subject that has been discussed here before.
Just because you mix it or someone else does, doesn't mean it will work
correctly. Check out my article on Tony Hansen's Insign web page for some
poignant thoughts on this clay thing.
In fact, the cost of clay does indeed add up, and if if costs you double
the price of the clay because you have it prepared and pugged for you, it
is indeed a big deal if you want to price your pots to return a profit to
you. I just addressed this same question in the Q and A in this month's
Ceramics Monthly for those interested. The cost of clay, while relatively
small in relationship to the rest of the world as well as your products
does in deed have to factor in, and if you don't account for it in some way
that works for you, no wonder potters are still bitching and moaning about
"where's the money."
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan
Ceramic Design Group Ltd./Production Services
PO Box 775112
Steamboat Springs CO 80477
jonathan@csn.net
(970) 879-9139*voice and fax
http://www.craftweb.com/org/jkaplan/cdg.shtml
http://digitalfire.com/education/articles/kaplan1.htm
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