Randy Golly on sat 1 feb 97
After reading the pugmill posts I want to know more about if a claymixer or
a pugmill would work for my one man studio. I am buying commercial clay
here in Dallas from Trinity Ceramics and am happy with the results. Hate
reclaiming clay in buckets, then onto plaster bats, the whole process is a
pain. Would a Soldner Mixer do the job for putting in scrap then remixing
with some more dry elements to reclaim? Or would a pug do the job better
by deairing it at the same time, bypassing having to wedge all of the new
reclaim? My experience with pugmills is limited but it looked like too
much work to clean it up, never used a Soldner mixer but looks like a great
device from the ads and catalogs.
Thanks in advance...
Randy Golly
getting up to the 80's in Dallas this weekend!
Hertz Pottery on sun 2 feb 97
Golly Randy Who wants to do all that hand weedging?mixing the clay from
reclaim is one thing if thats all the pug mill with a deairer did id say get
either. if you are preparing clay for throwing then the only choice is the
pugmill. twice through my venco and the clay is more consistant, airless
and generally tight than anyones hand wedged clay. mine will do 100lbs in
about 30 minutes, twice through. My pugmill is the best investment I could
ever make in my business.
Erik
e-mail me for more if you want it. >----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>After reading the pugmill posts I want to know more about if a claymixer or
>a pugmill would work for my one man studio. I am buying commercial clay
>here in Dallas from Trinity Ceramics and am happy with the results. Hate
>reclaiming clay in buckets, then onto plaster bats, the whole process is a
>pain. Would a Soldner Mixer do the job for putting in scrap then remixing
>with some more dry elements to reclaim? Or would a pug do the job better
>by deairing it at the same time, bypassing having to wedge all of the new
>reclaim? My experience with pugmills is limited but it looked like too
>much work to clean it up, never used a Soldner mixer but looks like a great
>device from the ads and catalogs.
>
>Thanks in advance...
>Randy Golly
>getting up to the 80's in Dallas this weekend!
>
>
erik hertz
Craig Martell on sun 2 feb 97
At 03:15 PM 2/1/97 EST, Randy Golly wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>After reading the pugmill posts I want to know more about if a claymixer or
>a pugmill would work for my one man studio.
Hi Randy: Tough question! When I had to make the choice, I chose a
de-airing pugmill. I was buying commercial clay too and needed a way to
efficiently reclaim my scraps. I made several large bowls, about 30lbs of
thrown clay and fired them to cone 06. I made ripstop nylon liners for them
and poured my clay slop into the bowls to stiffen. When the clay was ready
to be pugged, I just lifted the whole wad out at once, aided by the nylon
which kept the clay from sticking to the bowls. I kept on top of the scrap
so I didn't have many buckets of clay to deal with at any one time.
One handy thing about a pugmill is that you can figure amounts of clay for
any given pot by size of pug instead of weighing everything. All my
production forms are listed by the size of pug it takes to make the piece.
I have a table with rollers and as the pugs come out, I cut them to size for
plates, bowls, or whatever I have to make. This saves a lot of time. I
still knead the clay a bit, but I no longer have to cut and wedge to remove
air. If you get a dough mixer or a soldner, you are going to have to deal
with a lot of airy clay. This means having to hand wedge it without a
pugmill. I think it takes more time to do this, and energy, than to deal
with the stiffening of slop clay.
I have a mixer now, as well as a pugmill, so I don't have to do the bisque
bowl routine any longer. I just throw the slop in the mixer, add dry
claybody and mix to desired consistency. If you want to go this route, most
suppliers will be glad to sell you the DRY claybody you are using, for
purposes of reclaiming. You will still have to wedge though.
Regards, Craig Martell-Oregon
Vince Pitelka on sun 2 feb 97
>After reading the pugmill posts I want to know more about if a claymixer or
>a pugmill would work for my one man studio. I am buying commercial clay
>here in Dallas from Trinity Ceramics and am happy with the results. Hate
>reclaiming clay in buckets, then onto plaster bats, the whole process is a
>pain. Would a Soldner Mixer do the job for putting in scrap then remixing
>with some more dry elements to reclaim? Or would a pug do the job better
>by deairing it at the same time, bypassing having to wedge all of the new
>reclaim? My experience with pugmills is limited but it looked like too
>much work to clean it up, never used a Soldner mixer but looks like a great
>device from the ads and catalogs.
Randy -
Of course you are talking about two entirely different machines. But there
is some overlap in what they will do. The Soldner mixer is EXCELLENT for
reprocessing recycle by adding dry-mix to it. But as you point out, the
resulting clay is not de-aired, and will need to be wedged. I have never
seen a claymixer which works faster than a Soldner, but I think it is worth
the expense only if you are mixing lots of clay from dry materials.
On the other hand, a good de-airing pugmill will eliminate most wedging,
saving your wrists, and will still do a good job of reprocessing recycle.
Since you buy mixed clay, it seems that a good pugmill would clearly be the
best choice for you. In production I used to reclaim all my recycle with the
pugmill. I do not understand your dislike of recycling scrap by slaking in
buckets and drying on bats. Of course it takes up room, but otherwise what
could be easier? When it is stiff enough, you pug it, and you have
wonderfully plastic clay immediately. In contrast, if you slake your scrap
and put it in a Soldner mixer right away and add dry clay, the resulting
clay is far less plastic. I love the Soldner mixer, but as I said, for your
operation it seems that a good de-airing pugmill would meet your needs far
better.
And regarding cleaning the pugmill, there has been much mention of this, and
I do not understand what the problem is. I clean out my pugmill once a year
or so. I clean the screens every time the mill gets constipated, and when
reclaiming lots of recycle that is apt to happen every month or two, but it
isn't much trouble. The only time you really need to clean the entire mill
is if you are radically changing clay bodies. Do you do that often? We
have an old Walker which we reserve for white bodies, and a Venco and a
Bluebird which we use for stonewares and terracottas. We almost never have
to clean out these mills. We wrap the extrusion end in plastic with a heavy
rubber-band around it, and stuff some plastic in the hopper on top of the
plunger. If the mill is being left for several weeks or more, I just put
some damp rags on top of the plunger, and plastic on top of that. This is
not a problem, especially with an all-stainless mill like the Bluebird,
where the is no chance of corrosion..
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@Dekalb.Net
Phone - home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801
Appalachian Center for Crafts
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Dave and Pat Eitel on sun 2 feb 97
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>After reading the pugmill posts I want to know more about if a claymixer or
>a pugmill would work for my one man studio. I am buying commercial clay
>here in Dallas from Trinity Ceramics and am happy with the results. Hate
>reclaiming clay in buckets, then onto plaster bats, the whole process is a
>pain. Would a Soldner Mixer do the job for putting in scrap then remixing
>with some more dry elements to reclaim? Or would a pug do the job better
>by deairing it at the same time, bypassing having to wedge all of the new
>reclaim? My experience with pugmills is limited but it looked like too
>much work to clean it up, never used a Soldner mixer but looks like a great
>device from the ads and catalogs.
>
>Thanks in advance...
>Randy Golly
>getting up to the 80's in Dallas this weekend!
If you're buying premixed clay, you really should have a pugmill instead of
a mixer. Unless you change clay bodies a lot, you don't have to clean out
the pugmill. The wear and tear it saves on your wrists, not to mention the
time savings, makes my pugmill a very valuable tool.
Later...Dave
Dave Eitel
Cedar Creek Pottery
Cedarburg, WI
pots@cedarcreekpottery.com
http://www.cedarcreekpottery.com
Bill Amsterlaw on tue 4 feb 97
Hi Randy:
I have a 3.5" Venco deairing pugmill set up so that the vacuum pump and auger
motor can be turned on or off independently. This machine is tough, safe,
easy to maintain. I love the thing. It is my friend and helper, taking much
of the drudgery out maintaining a supply of clay with good working properties.
It does have certain limitations and idiosyncracies that need to be
understood.
You can use the pugmill as a multipurpose tool in a relatively low-volume
studio - but If you plan to put out a high volume of work, you will probably
want to have a clay mixer or continue to buy pre-mixed clay. You can use a
pugmill to mix or reclaim clay and get clay that is of good quality - but it
is a very tedious and inconvenient way to do it. The best way to use a
pugmill is to help you prepare good clay just before you are ready to use it -
ie, the thing it does best is do most of the wedging for you.
Some notes:
1. The vacuum is not a useful feature when you are mixing or reclaiming. If
you are using the pugmill to mix or reclaim clay, you almost always have some
stuff that is pretty wet that you want to mix with other stuff that is dryer.
Any time you try to put much wet stuff through, it tends to get sucked up into
the vacuum chamber ... and if ignored, can fill the chamber and get sucked
right into the vacuum line. Nils Lou claimed (Clayart 14 Aug 1996) that clay
that is not de-aired ages faster than vacuum-pugged clay. So if you use the
pugmill to mix clay that is going to be stored, even if it is not wet stuff,
it might be best to turn the vacuum off. Then when you are ready to use the
clay, pug again with vacuum.
2. A pugmill doesn't work very well if the clay is either too wet or too dry.
If you try to put stuff through that is too dry, it will get hung up in the
screens which will then need to be taken out and cleaned. If you try to put
stuff through that is too wet, the mass of slick, wet clay just wants to
cling to the auger and go round and round rather than pushing forward.
Therefore, if you get too much wet stuff in the barrel, you need to force some
dryer stuff down there to push the wet stuff along, and/or you need put your
weight on the lever to plunge the wet stuff through. With a lot of plunging
of wet stuff, it is very easy to experience squirt-back ... where you push
down on the lever and stuff squirts around the plunger and comes back at you.
None of this is easy or convenient or fast or fun - but it is an aid to
winding up with a homogenous mass that beats wedging with your feet. It would
be a lot easier to just throw all this into a Soldner mixer and let the mixer
do most of the work while you make pots.
3. You can use the pugmill to mix clay from dry ingredients. The best method
I have found is to thoroughly mix dry ingredients in a wheelbarrow. Then
artistically pour in the perfect amount of water - usually a lot less than
your first guess. You can add reclaim to this stuff. Then you smoosh the
stuff around with your hands to form clumps that you put through the pugmill.
With a little practice in how much water to add, you can put out clay of good
quality - but it is not easy or convenient or fast. A mixer would be a better
tool.
4. Even if you have a deairing pugmill, you will still probably have to do
some wedging ... or you may lose a lot of pots to s-cracks.
5. Some people prefer to work with clay that is not de-aired ... and some
people like to wedge. My personal preference is to throw with de-aired clay
and wedge no more than necessary. Deaired clay seems dramatically more
plastic and it seems to resist slumping far better than non-deaired clay.
6. No matter what machinery you have to help you, there is still a lot of
unavoidable drudgery involved in reclaiming waste and maintaining a supply of
usable clay.
---------
On 1 Feb 1997 Randy Golly wrote:
>>
After reading the pugmill posts I want to know more about if a claymixer or
a pugmill would work for my one man studio. I am buying commercial clay
here in Dallas from Trinity Ceramics and am happy with the results. Hate
reclaiming clay in buckets, then onto plaster bats, the whole process is a
pain. Would a Soldner Mixer do the job for putting in scrap then remixing
with some more dry elements to reclaim? Or would a pug do the job better
by deairing it at the same time, bypassing having to wedge all of the new
reclaim?
<<
Pamela Jo Stamper on wed 5 feb 97
>On 1 Feb 1997 Randy Golly wrote:
>After reading the pugmill posts I want to know more about if a claymixer or
>a pugmill would work for my one man studio. ...
**************
I have learned a great deal about pugmills and claymixers from all
the replies Randy received. It looks like a Venco pugmill and a Soldner
mixer would be ideal if one had both the space and money. And,that the
Venco is probably the first choice if you can only afford (or have room
for) one machine.
I have one question. Does anyone out there have the combination
machine called Peter Pugger? Would it, in your opinion be another good
choice for a small studio? Axner also lists a combo machine by Wieland.
Do combos work or do they do neither job (mixing and pugging) very well?
Thanks.
Pamela Stamper
David Woodin Set Clayart digest on thu 6 feb 97
I have a Peter Pugger and it is excellent the only drawback is it does not
deair the clay. If you bag the clay and let it age for a few days then it
wedges very well. The big advantage is that it has a large opening in the
hopper and all you do is fill it close the lid mix for 15 minutes set the
switch to pug and bag it.
Jinx Goubeaud on thu 6 feb 97
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>
>>On 1 Feb 1997 Randy Golly wrote:
>>After reading the pugmill posts I want to know more about if a claymixer or
>>a pugmill would work for my one man studio. ...
>**************
> I have learned a great deal about pugmills and claymixers from all
>the replies Randy received. It looks like a Venco pugmill and a Soldner
>mixer would be ideal if one had both the space and money. And,that the
>Venco is probably the first choice if you can only afford (or have room
>for) one machine.
> I have one question. Does anyone out there have the combination
>machine called Peter Pugger? Would it, in your opinion be another good
>choice for a small studio? Axner also lists a combo machine by Wieland.
>Do combos work or do they do neither job (mixing and pugging) very well?
>Thanks.
> Pamela Stamper
WE have used a Peter Pugger here at Hallelujah Pottery, Sewanee,
Tn. for ten years. It is an excellent machine! Ours (the smaller version)
mixes about 60# per batch, then pugs it out. This cycle takes about 5 to 10
minutes. It mixes well, pugs well, and is very efficient. It is made with
heavy duty parts. The BONUS is that you don't have to hand unload a mixer
then stuff your hundreds of lbs. of wet clay into a tiny "regular" pugmill
hopper. It's great!
Peter Goubeaud - ( no relation to the
Pugger )
Dave Spangenberg on fri 7 feb 97
>>Pamela Stamper wrote on 5 Feb:
>>Does anyone out there have the combination machine called Peter Pugger? Would
it, in your opinion be another good choice for a small studio?<<
I use the Peter Pugger in a classroom environment principly for re-claiming
scrap clay. The Peter Pugger is a good small batch clay-mixer. It is also a
non-de-airing pugger. It functions very well and has been trouble free for my
usage.
The large hopper on the Peter Pugger is easy to load and mixes rapidly (5-15
minutes). The pug is not de-aired nor is it well compressed; some hand wedging
(or de-air pugging) is desireable. The non-de-airing feature is an advantage
for the class-room environment where sponges and tools frequently end up in the
scrap cans even with hardware cloth covers. There are no choppers or screens
inside to be clogged or damaged. The pugs are easy to bag and store.
I obtained this machine about 5 years ago to replace a de-airing pugmill. The
frequent tear-down and cleaning of a jammed de-airing pug-mill is no fun and is
very time consuming. The small loading hopper of a pug-mill is less convenient
for mixing purposes and, because it is not a mixer, requires multiple pugging to
get a mix.
If small batch mixing is your principle requirement (emphasis on small), the
Peter Pugger can be a good choice. This heavy machine is on wheels and can be
moved around a small studio easily for storage when not in use. The output pugs
are easy to handle and store compared to handfulls of clay scooped out of clay
mixers. For larger batches, get a Soldner clay mixer.
If de-aired pugs are your principle requirement, get a Bluebird or Venco.
Dave Spangenberg 75463.1027@compuserve.com
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