mel jacobson on tue 2 jul 96
dear nils,
it is impossible for left handed potters to put cones in the kiln so they
melt to four o'clock...mine bend left and finish at 7:34 o'clock...it's just
good science.
mel..a lefty that was punished in 1st grade for putting clay in his hair.
Nils Lou on wed 3 jul 96
Mel, you old buzzard, didn'tanyone ever tell you that cones only work
clockwise? No wonder your pots look like that! NL
Ann Peters on fri 15 aug 97
Been doing a little summer clean up in our pottery studio and have
assembled boxes of odd cones that we don't use. I'll be travelling
from Yellowknife through Alberta, across Saskatchewan, into Manitoba,
and then back again this September.
Any potters out there en route who could make use of the following
cones?
2 or 3 boxes each of cones 8, 9, 10
a couple of boexes each of cones 01, 03, and 04
We just hate to waste anything! so I'd love to drop these off to
someone who could use them.
Ann Peters
Yellowknife Guild of Arts and Crafts
Yellowknife, NWT, Canada
DWoodin521 on fri 24 apr 98
I looked at some of the 1996 & 97 postings and there has been some discussion
on cones. Comparing Ortons 1996 cone table for large cones at 108 deg F
there are some large temperature changes from cone 5 thru 12. Old table cone 5
=2156, new =2163: old cone 6=2194,new=2228; old cone 7=2219, new=2259;old cone
8=2257,new=2277;old cone 9=2300,new=2295;old cone 10=2345,new=2340, old cone
11=2361,new=2359. I have no idea when the new cones came out.
David
David McBeth on sat 25 apr 98
Comparing Ortons 1996 cone table for large cones at 108 deg F
> there are some large temperature changes from cone 5 thru 12. Old table cone 5
> =2156, new =2163: old cone 6=2194,new=2228; old cone 7=2219, new=2259;old cone
> 8=2257,new=2277;old cone 9=2300,new=2295;old cone 10=2345,new=2340, old cone
> 11=2361,new=2359. I have no idea when the new cones came out.
This is interesting information. I am thoroughly enjoying my (the
university's) new Skutt 1027 with kilnmaster. The kilnmaster tells us
that cone seven is 2228 F. I am wondering, does water still freeze at
32 F or has that change too. Any good accountant (is that an oxymoron?)
will tell you how to make the numbers say want you want them to.
--
David McBeth, MFA
Associate Professor of Art
330 C Gooch Hall
University of Tennessee at Martin
Martin, TN 38238
901-587-7416
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/dmcbeth.htm
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on sat 25 apr 98
Dave--Could you also answer a question about the relationship between the large
and small cones? How much higher do the large cones fire than the small---and
should you use large or small in an electric kiln?
Sandy
-----Original Message-----
From: DWoodin521 [SMTP:DWoodin521@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, April 24, 1998 3:16 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list CLAYART
Subject: Cones
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I looked at some of the 1996 & 97 postings and there has been some discussion
on cones. Comparing Ortons 1996 cone table for large cones at 108 deg F
there are some large temperature changes from cone 5 thru 12. Old table cone 5
=2156, new =2163: old cone 6=2194,new=2228; old cone 7=2219, new=2259;old cone
8=2257,new=2277;old cone 9=2300,new=2295;old cone 10=2345,new=2340, old cone
11=2361,new=2359. I have no idea when the new cones came out.
David
Laura Conley on sun 26 apr 98
Two years ago the community college studio I worked at had a horrible time with
overfiring glazes. It turned out that the cone manufacturer had changed the con
formulations, didn't tell anyone, and denied it. After several months they
figured it out, and now use cone 5 instead of cone 6. I don't know the
manufacturer's name - the small cones were rectangular not pyramidal.
Laura Conley
Boulder, CO (this studio was OCC in Michigan)
DWoodin521 wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I looked at some of the 1996 & 97 postings and there has been some discussion
> on cones. Comparing Ortons 1996 cone table for large cones at 108 deg F
> there are some large temperature changes from cone 5 thru 12. Old table cone 5
> =2156, new =2163: old cone 6=2194,new=2228; old cone 7=2219, new=2259;old cone
> 8=2257,new=2277;old cone 9=2300,new=2295;old cone 10=2345,new=2340, old cone
> 11=2361,new=2359. I have no idea when the new cones came out.
> David
John Baymore on mon 27 apr 98
------------------
(clip)
Comparing Ortons 1996 cone table for large cones at 108 deg F =3Cclip)
.......... there are some large temperature changes from cone 5 thru 12.
(snip)..........old cone 7=3D2219, new=3D2259 (clip)........I have no idea =
when
the new cones came out. (snip) ........ The kilnmaster tells us that cone
seven is 2228 F. I am wondering, does water still freeze at 32 F or has
that change too.
(clip)
With that small difference between the observed end point and the published
endpoint, the electronic controllers pyrometer function is probably within
its typical design accuracy (synergistically, between the electronics
allowable error and the thermocouple allowable error).
This is also assuming you are actually firing at 108 F per hour, with a
pretty linear rate of climb. And it also assumes accurate and consistent
placement of the cone in the sensor/switch on the controller. Also that
the actual batch of cones quality control is tight enough that it hits
exactly the published number.
The inexpensive (relative) electronic controllers typically used on potters
kilns (as opposed to industrial or scientific units) give the appearance of
extreme precision (displays that appear to resolve down to a single degree
F unit).... but they are really quite inaccurate instruments. The design
tolerances of the type of thermocouples used and the electronics in the A/D
circuitry don't give you really tight resolution of temperature. (See the
archives in the past few years for a lot of discussion on pyrometers.)
Generally, accuracy goes up directly as a function of the price paid for
the measuring unit. Ask about the percent of deviation allowed in your
unit if you want to know how accurate it might be.
For those reading the list who are pretty new to ceramics, it is also
probably good to mention here that cones do not measure temperature....
they measure the combined effect of heat and time on clay and glaze
materials. Usually refered to as =22heat work=22. Within reason and =
certain
physical / chemical constraints..... you get the same amount of =22heat =
work=22
from a lower temperature over a longer time as you do a higher temperature
over a shorter period of time. So =22cone 7=22 endpoint fired fast will
achieve a higher temperature than =22cone 7=22 fired more slowly.
Best,
.......................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752
JBaymore=40Compuserve.com
Joyce Lee on mon 9 nov 98
Most of us refer to cones as "falling or tipping at 2 or 3 o'clock."
Well, surprise to nobody I'm sure, mine fall at 9 or 10 o'clock. In
other words, my tips face to my left and others seem to face to their
right. Does this make a difference in firing results? Can't find this
in a book or on a tape. Probably too elementary, but it's at that level
that many of us bog down. Suspect it makes little or no difference, but
must check. If I recall correctly, many of you, or your spouses, travel
as I do due to a directionality disability: counter-clockwise in a
clockwise world.
Joyce
In the Mojave agog from watching a huge, colorful, marvelous balloon
from our local Balloon Festival come down to earth on the desert road
next one over from us. Could not believe what I was seeing. Just kept
getting lower and lower, almost hit the trees next door, their horse
went wild, suddenly zoomed up, then shortly back down again to ground.
Exciting. (Everybody fine.) Police were blocking the wrong road so I had
no difficulty getting close enough to watch the whole thing. Inspiring.
Vince Pitelka on tue 10 nov 98
>Most of us refer to cones as "falling or tipping at 2 or 3 o'clock."
>Well, surprise to nobody I'm sure, mine fall at 9 or 10 o'clock. In
>other words, my tips face to my left and others seem to face to their
>right. Does this make a difference in firing results? Can't find this
>in a book or on a tape. Probably too elementary, but it's at that level
>that many of us bog down. Suspect it makes little or no difference, but
>must check. If I recall correctly, many of you, or your spouses, travel
>as I do due to a directionality disability: counter-clockwise in a
>clockwise world.
Joyce -
Some people place their cone packs in the kilns so that as you view the
cones they are tilted to the left, and some to the right. That makes no
difference at all. But if you are placing your cones so that they tilt to
the right, and instead they tilt to the left (or front or back), then you
are not making your cone packs properly. Take a standard large cone, and
hold it upright on the table against it's base flat against the table. You
will see that it tilts to one side. It should be placed in the cone pack at
this angle, pointing the proper way so that it will tilt further in the same
direction when it melts.
I am always amazed at the way some people make cone packs. You no doubt
already know how to make cone packs, but perhaps this info will be useful to
others. The following instructions will give cone packs which can be placed
in the kiln while still damp, and will not explode as long as you do not go
full-blast right off the bat. These instructions are for cone packs for
cone ten reduction.
Roll out a 3"-long coil of clay no larger than 1/2" in diameter, and flatten
it slightly. In one end, form a small basin approximately 1"-long, to catch
the slumped body-reduction cone when it melts in high-fire. Directly
adjacent to this basin, place your body-reduction cone, so that it tilts in
the direction of the basin. Place your cone 9, 10, and 11 (warning, firing,
and guard cones) DIRECTLY adjacent to each previous cone, with no space at
all between them. As you place each cone, press the base straight down into
the coil of clay until the cone won't go any farther - in other words, right
down to the table surface. When you have placed all four cones, scrunch the
clay together around them, especially between each pair of cones on both
sides of the cone pack. Trim off any excess clay from the end of the cone
pack. Finally, with a needle tool thoroughly perforate the clay, especially
in the small masses between the cone bases. As long as you do all this, you
will have a fool-proof cone pack which will be easy to see through the spy
hole, and is pretty much guaranteed not to blow up early in the firing.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Don Prey on tue 10 nov 98
In a message dated 11/09/98 7:17:32 AM, you wrote:
<Well, surprise to nobody I'm sure, mine fall at 9 or 10 o'clock. In
other words, my tips face to my left and others seem to face to their
right. Does this make a difference in firing results?>>
Joyce,
as you suspect, it does not make a difference. Think of it this way; If I
walk around to the back of the kiln and look at my 3 o'clock cone from the
other side it becomes a 9 o'clock cone. However, in the 1, 2 , 3, 4 o'clock
convention increasing heat work results in an increasing number.....not so the
other way around. On the other hand, a half-down cone is a half-down cone.
Don Prey in Oregon
Dennis Davis on tue 10 nov 98
Hi Joyce,
My cones fall the same direction as yours and I am not worried about it.
Make pots. Enjoy life.
Dennis in Stafford, VA
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Joyce Lee wrote:
>
>----------------------------Original message---------------
> Most of us refer to cones as "falling or tipping at 2 or 3 o'clock."
> Well, surprise to nobody I'm sure, mine fall at 9 or 10 o'clock. In
> other words, my tips face to my left and others seem to face to their
> right. Does this make a difference in firing results? Can't find this
> in a book or on a tape. Probably too elementary, but it's at that >level that
Joyce Lee on tue 10 nov 98
I swear, I absolutely adore Clayarters! You are so funny! Thanks for
the loads of humorous and serious responses to my question about cones
tipping. Toni in South Africa says hers tip to the front! Shoulda'
guessed. She says at least I got "some kind of o'clock!" We have a lot
in common and take turns make the other feel superior. And thanks for
all the, "Go make pots and forget about it!" and to Don P. for pointing
out that "in the 1, 2, 3, 4 o'clock convention increasing heat work
results in an increasing number." Makes sense. Won't forget that one.
Several said, as did Don, that "A half down cone is a half down cone."
Bless your little hearts. I just love all of you.
Joyce
In the Mojave seeing that other messages are waiting as I post. Almost
as much fun as that big several-stories balloon. Some of you thought I
was making that up. No way...I don't ever make 'em up. No need. Enough
going on just living.
Stephen Mills on wed 11 nov 98
Joyce,
It doesn't make any difference. My cone packs have on occasion to be
viewed through a small spy hole, so I set them almost lined up with the
spy, first pointing left, second pointing right, third left, fourth
right, them in a bright atmosphere I can tell which one's gone!
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Joyce Lee writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Most of us refer to cones as "falling or tipping at 2 or 3 o'clock."
>Well, surprise to nobody I'm sure, mine fall at 9 or 10 o'clock. In
>other words, my tips face to my left and others seem to face to their
>right. Does this make a difference in firing results? Can't find this
>in a book or on a tape. Probably too elementary, but it's at that level
>that many of us bog down. Suspect it makes little or no difference, but
>must check. If I recall correctly, many of you, or your spouses, travel
>as I do due to a directionality disability: counter-clockwise in a
>clockwise world.
>
>Joyce
>In the Mojave agog from watching a huge, colorful, marvelous balloon
>from our local Balloon Festival come down to earth on the desert road
>next one over from us. Could not believe what I was seeing. Just kept
>getting lower and lower, almost hit the trees next door, their horse
>went wild, suddenly zoomed up, then shortly back down again to ground.
>Exciting. (Everybody fine.) Police were blocking the wrong road so I had
>no difficulty getting close enough to watch the whole thing. Inspiring.
>
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
home e-mail: stevemills@mudslinger.demon.co.uk
work e-mail: stevemills@bathpotters.demon.co.uk
own website: http://www.mudslinger.demon.co.uk
BPS website: http://www.bathpotters.demon.co.uk
Jean Stephenson on wed 11 nov 98
My cones have always fallen that way. I do however, get lost easily, and
almost always turn the wrong way out of any store, freeway, building,
elevator--you get the idea. Cheers, Jean.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Davis
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: Cones
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hi Joyce,
>
>My cones fall the same direction as yours and I am not worried about it.
>
>Make pots. Enjoy life.
>
>Dennis in Stafford, VA
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>Joyce Lee wrote:
>>
>>----------------------------Original message---------------
>> Most of us refer to cones as "falling or tipping at 2 or 3 o'clock."
>> Well, surprise to nobody I'm sure, mine fall at 9 or 10 o'clock. In
>> other words, my tips face to my left and others seem to face to their
>> right. Does this make a difference in firing results? Can't find this
>> in a book or on a tape. Probably too elementary, but it's at that >level
that
>
mel jacobson on thu 1 apr 99
i like to trust the cones......never the pyrometer.
others have posted good science on this one, and they
know of what they speak.
trust your cones.
orton does a good job.
even the temps on the oxyprobe are not totally correct from time
to time.
the best of pyrometers only tell you an average temperature at the
spot they enter.
cones should be set around the kiln.
i always use 4 cone pats...and 4 spyholes.
mel/mn
http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Frank Cormier on fri 2 apr 99
Eric,
I find that cones work the best. Digital meters measure the air temp not
the ceramic temp. Cones actually tell the temp of the pots. I've tried
different ways but I'm always going back to cones.
Frank Cormier
Cormier Pottery
http://www.cormierpottery.com
Eric Hansen on fri 2 apr 99
Well a person could get one of those little guns that
they use in the tile factories. You just point it at the spy
hole and shoot and you get a reading which is
fairly accurate so I am told. Cones factor in time
temperature (and thermal mass); pyrometers don't.
Out here pyrometers are only used to edge yourself
through quartz inversion, then removed. This too is
done with a cone pack, however. The little guns are
$2000-3000 (?)
Eric in Kans.
--
On Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:50:01 mel jacobson wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>i like to trust the cones......never the pyrometer.
>others have posted good science on this one, and they
>know of what they speak.
>trust your cones.
>orton does a good job.
>even the temps on the oxyprobe are not totally correct from time
>to time.
>the best of pyrometers only tell you an average temperature at the
>spot they enter.
>cones should be set around the kiln.
>i always use 4 cone pats...and 4 spyholes.
>mel/mn
>
>http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>
Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com
Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com
mel jacobson on mon 31 may 99
cones become a judgement call for all of us.
what i feel should be cone 10 after firing for 40 years, may not
be what nils or kurt wants. (and i don't mean to fire a kiln for forty years,
that would be at least cone 13.)
we all learn from experience, and what we want our glazes to do.
i think a melted cone 10 is just right.
kurt likes cone 10 at 5 o'clock...but then i am left handed so mine would
be 7 o'clock.
we are aware of what orton and the scientific community would say.
be precise.
but, that makes the answer:
be consistent with what you do....not someone else.
your glazes, and what happens in your kiln is a part of your work.
it is you.
mel.mn
http://www.pclink.com/melpots
mel jacobson on mon 31 jan 00
i think jonathan has hit the nail on the head.
when making cone packs, it is very important to
do it the same way each time. (does not matter so much
how you do it, is that you do it the same each time, then learn
to read them.)
i make my own, have a way i like to place them, use
a certain angle. the same every time.
i make about 20 at a time....set them in the same place to dry.
i make one with a cone 08,10,11 that falls into a cup (thump impression)
i make two that have cone 9,10,11
and one that is just cone 10,11.
the repeat that over and over, set them away in sets.
the 10, 11 is usually buried in the kiln...so who cares
if i see 9....it is the test of the inner kiln temp,nice to know.
the 08 with a 10,11, sits in the prime spot.
the 9,10,11's are on the sides...
when all else fails, i use the prime cone to read the kiln.
i am always in hopes that all sets will fall at the same time.
if they do not, i change things around, add gas, take away gas,
open damper, close damper, high gas on one side, then the other.
but, if cones are not dropping, god almighty, do something.
don't just sit there and fret about the dumb kiln you have.
a great many folks have good kilns, and they do not know it.
mel/mn
http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
GSM_ENT on tue 1 feb 00
Hi Mel:
Just a word of caution. Calibrate your cone system with commercialy produced
witness cones. I recommend the self supporting type. As a potter I am sure
you prefer the iron free type instead of the regular ones as I do.
The Orton cones have a standard 8 degree incline or head start. It is
extremely important thet the very bottom of the cones all be at the exact
same distance from the shelf/bottom, 1/2". The slightless variation in
height will cause a corresponding variation in their bending rate.
Regards,
Manuel R A "Tony" Diaz Rodriguez
MAJ., US Army (Ret.)
Master Kiln Repair Technician
Multi-Company Factory Qualified
Multi-Company Product Qualified Teacher
----- Original Message -----
From: mel jacobson
To:
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 11:36 AM
Subject: cones
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> i think jonathan has hit the nail on the head.
> when making cone packs, it is very important to
> do it the same way each time. (does not matter so much
> how you do it, is that you do it the same each time, then learn
> to read them.)
>
> i make my own, have a way i like to place them, use
> a certain angle. the same every time.
>
> i make about 20 at a time....set them in the same place to dry.
>
> i make one with a cone 08,10,11 that falls into a cup (thump impression)
> i make two that have cone 9,10,11
> and one that is just cone 10,11.
>
> the repeat that over and over, set them away in sets.
> the 10, 11 is usually buried in the kiln...so who cares
> if i see 9....it is the test of the inner kiln temp,nice to know.
>
> the 08 with a 10,11, sits in the prime spot.
> the 9,10,11's are on the sides...
>
> when all else fails, i use the prime cone to read the kiln.
>
> i am always in hopes that all sets will fall at the same time.
>
> if they do not, i change things around, add gas, take away gas,
> open damper, close damper, high gas on one side, then the other.
> but, if cones are not dropping, god almighty, do something.
> don't just sit there and fret about the dumb kiln you have.
>
> a great many folks have good kilns, and they do not know it.
>
> mel/mn
>
>
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
> from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
Brian Crocker [S.Australia] on tue 1 feb 00
Dear CLAYARTERS,
If you have trouble with getting cones set at the correct angle and at the
correct distance out of the
Plaque get the ORTON Measuring Template, it's very helpfull.
And so are the ORTON people they have a good answer for all questions.
Regards to you all,
Brian C .
At 02:36 PM2:10: 31/01/00 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>i think jonathan has hit the nail on the head.
>when making cone packs, it is very important to
>do it the same way each time. (does not matter so much
>how you do it, is that you do it the same each time, then learn
>to read them.)
>
>i make my own, have a way i like to place them, use
>a certain angle. the same every time.
>
>i make about 20 at a time....set them in the same place to dry.
>
>i make one with a cone 08,10,11 that falls into a cup (thump impression)
>i make two that have cone 9,10,11
>and one that is just cone 10,11.
>
>the repeat that over and over, set them away in sets.
>the 10, 11 is usually buried in the kiln...so who cares
>if i see 9....it is the test of the inner kiln temp,nice to know.
>
>the 08 with a 10,11, sits in the prime spot.
>the 9,10,11's are on the sides...
>
>when all else fails, i use the prime cone to read the kiln.
>
>i am always in hopes that all sets will fall at the same time.
>
>if they do not, i change things around, add gas, take away gas,
>open damper, close damper, high gas on one side, then the other.
>but, if cones are not dropping, god almighty, do something.
>don't just sit there and fret about the dumb kiln you have.
>
>a great many folks have good kilns, and they do not know it.
>
>mel/mn
>
>
>http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
>
>
Brian Crocker.
4 Erica Street,
Tea Tree Gully 5091,
South Australia. Phone/Fax: 08 8264 4136
crocker@dove.net.au
The Moving Finger writes; and,
having writ,
Moves on : nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a
Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a word
of it.
THE RUBAIYAT.
Norman van der Sluys on tue 1 feb 00
Mel, you are right! There is more to even firing than kiln design, and it is
not practical to run one like a microwave - toss in the burrito and set the
timer. Shortly after ordering my little gas updraft kiln I talked to a
neighboring potter who said, "Oh no, you didn't buy one of those! I have one
and it is terrible! I fired a load of stoneware and there was a 2 cone
difference from top to bottom! I only use it for raku now, where it doesn't
matter."
Well, I fired mine up when it came, with cone packs all over the place, and
there was maybe a 1/2 cone difference between all the cone packs. I have
since gotten more variable results but sill acceptable to me, and I
attribute these not to the design of the kiln, but to variations in stacking
and in firing schedule, the faster times yielding the more uneven results.
Of course, I followed the manufacturer's instructions for a starting point,
an advantage you don't have with a homemade kiln. I consider that part of
what I paid for, and the value of three kiln loads equaled the price I paid
for the kiln.
Norman van der Sluys
Jackpottery!
mel jacobson wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> i am always in hopes that all sets will fall at the same time.
>
> if they do not, i change things around, add gas, take away gas,
> open damper, close damper, high gas on one side, then the other.
> but, if cones are not dropping, god almighty, do something.
> don't just sit there and fret about the dumb kiln you have.
>
> a great many folks have good kilns, and they do not know it.
>
> mel/mn
>
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
> from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
Lorraine Pierce on wed 2 feb 00
Hi Norm, Which small gas updraft kiln did you purchase? Its good to hear you're
so satisfied with the results you're getting. Lori in New Port Richey, Fl.
Norman van der Sluys wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Mel, you are right! There is more to even firing than kiln design, and it is
> not practical to run one like a microwave - toss in the burrito and set the
> timer. Shortly after ordering my little gas updraft kiln I talked to a
> neighboring potter who said, "Oh no, you didn't buy one of those! I have one
> and it is terrible! I fired a load of stoneware and there was a 2 cone
> difference from top to bottom! I only use it for raku now, where it doesn't
> matter."
> Well, I fired mine up when it came, with cone packs all over the place, and
> there was maybe a 1/2 cone difference between all the cone packs. I have
> since gotten more variable results but sill acceptable to me, and I
> attribute these not to the design of the kiln, but to variations in stacking
> and in firing schedule, the faster times yielding the more uneven results.
> Of course, I followed the manufacturer's instructions for a starting point,
> an advantage you don't have with a homemade kiln. I consider that part of
> what I paid for, and the value of three kiln loads equaled the price I paid
> for the kiln.
>
> Norman van der Sluys
> Jackpottery!
>
>
> mel jacobson wrote:
>
> > ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >
> > i am always in hopes that all sets will fall at the same time.
> >
> > if they do not, i change things around, add gas, take away gas,
> > open damper, close damper, high gas on one side, then the other.
> > but, if cones are not dropping, god almighty, do something.
> > don't just sit there and fret about the dumb kiln you have.
> >
> > a great many folks have good kilns, and they do not know it.
> >
> > mel/mn
> >
> > http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
> > from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
Frederich, Tim on wed 2 feb 00
Dear Brian and friends on Clayart,
Thank you for the nice words about Orton. We are here to help if you
have questions or problems. We have 104 years of experience and research to
use to try and solve problems. Mel made a very important point when he said
that consistency is a priority in using cones to monitor your firings. There
are many variables that take place inside the kiln. We try to cover as many
variables as possible in the production of cones but not everyone uses cones
in the same way. Your consistent use of cones will provide you with
repeatable data to use in the monitoring of your firings. I have been making
pots for over 32 years, 27 of those as a full time production potter, and I
try to use this experience to help solve problems for other people.
If you have questions or comments, please e-mail or call me at
614-895-2663 ext.36.
Sincerely,
Tim Frederich, Orton Ceramic Foundation
> ----------
> From: Brian Crocker [S.Australia][SMTP:crocker@dove.net.au]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 2:23 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> Subject: Re: cones
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Dear CLAYARTERS,
>
> If you have trouble with getting cones set at the correct angle and at the
> correct distance out of the
> Plaque get the ORTON Measuring Template, it's very helpfull.
>
> And so are the ORTON people they have a good answer for all questions.
>
> Regards to you all,
>
> Brian C .
>
> At 02:36 PM2:10: 31/01/00 EST, you wrote:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >i think jonathan has hit the nail on the head.
> >when making cone packs, it is very important to
> >do it the same way each time. (does not matter so much
> >how you do it, is that you do it the same each time, then learn
> >to read them.)
> >
> >i make my own, have a way i like to place them, use
> >a certain angle. the same every time.
> >
> >i make about 20 at a time....set them in the same place to dry.
> >
> >i make one with a cone 08,10,11 that falls into a cup (thump impression)
> >i make two that have cone 9,10,11
> >and one that is just cone 10,11.
> >
> >the repeat that over and over, set them away in sets.
> >the 10, 11 is usually buried in the kiln...so who cares
> >if i see 9....it is the test of the inner kiln temp,nice to know.
> >
> >the 08 with a 10,11, sits in the prime spot.
> >the 9,10,11's are on the sides...
> >
> >when all else fails, i use the prime cone to read the kiln.
> >
> >i am always in hopes that all sets will fall at the same time.
> >
> >if they do not, i change things around, add gas, take away gas,
> >open damper, close damper, high gas on one side, then the other.
> >but, if cones are not dropping, god almighty, do something.
> >don't just sit there and fret about the dumb kiln you have.
> >
> >a great many folks have good kilns, and they do not know it.
> >
> >mel/mn
> >
> >
> >http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
> >from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
> >
> >
> Brian Crocker.
> 4 Erica Street,
> Tea Tree Gully 5091,
> South Australia. Phone/Fax: 08 8264 4136
> crocker@dove.net.au
>
> The Moving Finger writes; and,
> having writ,
> Moves on : nor all thy Piety nor Wit
> Shall lure it back to cancel half a
> Line,
> Nor all thy Tears wash out a word
> of it.
> THE RUBAIYAT.
>
Frederich, Tim on mon 25 jun 01
Mariko,
Orton cones have a reproducibility and accuracy to within plus or minus 2
degrees centigrade. The reason that all 3 types of cones will not deform at
the same time is because they are calculated at different heating rates and
they are not all the same size. When used as witness cones the mounting
height and angle affect the fall of the cone. Gravity will have more of an
effect on the larger cones than the smaller ones as they deform. The
validity is that the cone is telling you the amount of heatwork taking place
in the kiln based on time and temperature. This is important when firing
your ware to a cone number. You want to fire to what the witness cone on
the shelf is telling you. You make a good point in knowing what your firing
conditions are. The heating rate and the amount of time at that rate are
important. I hope this helps. Please feel free to contact me at
614-895-2663 if you have further questions.
Best regards,
Tim Frederich, Orton Ceramic Foundation
J Lutz on fri 30 apr 04
I recently purchased a box of ^08 small cones to use in the kiln sitter.
The first cone I used cracked but didn't bend as usual.
The second cone I used broke in two.
Can I assume that the whole box is defective?
Jean Lutz
Prescott, AZ
william schran on fri 30 apr 04
Jean wrote: >I recently purchased a box of ^08 small cones to use in
the kiln sitter.
The first cone I used cracked but didn't bend as usual.
The second cone I used broke in two. Can I assume that the whole box
is defective?<
Not necessarily, your kiln sitter may be out of adjustment.
Bill
J Lutz on sat 1 may 04
Bill,
It the kiln sitter was out of adjustment wouldn't I be having a problem
with all other cones?
It's only this box of cones that are acting strangely.
Jean Lutz
At 03:57 PM 4/30/2004, you wrote:
>Jean wrote: >I recently purchased a box of ^08 small cones to use in
>the kiln sitter.
>The first cone I used cracked but didn't bend as usual.
>The second cone I used broke in two. Can I assume that the whole box
>is defective?<
>
>Not necessarily, your kiln sitter may be out of adjustment.
>Bill
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
william schran on sun 2 may 04
Jean wrote:>It the kiln sitter was out of adjustment wouldn't I be
having a problem
with all other cones? It's only this box of cones that are acting strangely.<
Yes, could be. Contact your source of the cones, tell them no other
cones are doing this, ask for exchange.
Bill
Don Kopyscinski on sun 2 may 04
<>
My suspicion is that these cones got damp somewhere along the line. The
binder failed and there are micro-cracks that are not evident to the eye. Try to
snap one in half. Does it break with a good strong snap! or does it kind of
crumble and come apart.
A hunch,
Don Kopyscinski
Bear Hills Pottery
Newtown, CT
Gary Harvey on mon 3 may 04
I bought some new ^6 cones and most of them were connected to an other cone.
I guess the cutter in the cone maker didn't cut them apart. If mine can be
bad so can one else's cone be bad. May I suggest using the gauge that comes
with the sitter to set the sitter. If you don't have one they are listed in
armadilloclay.com catalog. May I suggest a witness cone with the sitter's
cone too. GH
----- Original Message -----
From: "william schran"
To:
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: cones
> Jean wrote: >I recently purchased a box of ^08 small cones to use in
> the kiln sitter.
> The first cone I used cracked but didn't bend as usual.
> The second cone I used broke in two. Can I assume that the whole box
> is defective?<
>
> Not necessarily, your kiln sitter may be out of adjustment.
> Bill
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Charles Moore on mon 3 may 04
Gary,
I believe that, except for the self-supporting cones, Orton now makes their
cones in pairs, leaving it to the customer to break them. Breaking the
cones apart is not difficult: you place a cone pointing toward you with your
left hand on top of the left side cone and your first finger under and the
same with the right hand and right side cone; then you rotate your hands so
that your two thumbs move outward and away from each other. The first
fingers give support, and the thumbs exert the pressure.
It is true that I, ever so occasionally, do break the cones in separating
them. But that not frequent.
You have, of course, the option of buying self-supporting cones. But check
the melting point on such cones; I believe that it may not be identical to
that of the cone-pack cones.
Charles
Sacramento
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Harvey"
To:
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: cones
> I bought some new ^6 cones and most of them were connected to an other
cone.
> I guess the cutter in the cone maker didn't cut them apart. If mine can be
> bad so can one else's cone be bad. > > Bill
>
Susan Fox-Hirschmann on mon 3 may 04
I have always used a new sharp-blade exacto knife to separate the large
cones...works really well, without breaking them.
Susan
Annandale, VA
Susan Fox Hirschmann
Art Pottery
please visit http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/hirschmann
william schran on tue 4 may 04
Gary wrote:>I bought some new ^6 cones and most of them were
connected to an other cone.
I guess the cutter in the cone maker didn't cut them apart. If mine can be
bad so can one else's cone be bad.<
Surprise, that's the way they come from the manufacturer, nothing wrong.
Bill
Snail Scott on tue 4 may 04
At 01:16 PM 5/3/04 -0500, you wrote:
>I bought some new ^6 cones and most of them were connected to an other cone.
>I guess the cutter in the cone maker didn't cut them apart. If mine can be
>bad so can one else's cone be bad.
That's not a manufacturing defect; it's how
they're supposed to be. It's intended to
reduce breakage in shipping. Just hold them
flat between your two thumbs and forefingers,
and snap.
Has it been a while since you bought a new
box? I haven't seen the old all-separate cones
in years!
-Snail
Victoria E. Hamilton on mon 4 jul 05
No excuse for this as far as I can see.
Vicki Hamilton
Seattle, WA on July 4 6:30 pm. I am not loaded (kiln or otherwise), but
enjoying my first glass of a lovely red. Sun's out, asparagus and tomatoes
are growing!
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Michael Morris
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 22:38
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: OT: Cones
Okay,
Let me preface this comment:
Right now it is early on the fourth and I am loaded.
As for cones. Read them at their perspective angle and be done with it.
I am really sick of this XXXX.
Right now, I think everyone on this list thinks a little tooooooo much.
Once I send this email, I am done with this list. Seriously, I am not about
sharing information with anyone else ever again.
Sometimes being naive or ignorant is a good thing with this list.
And that is where I am leaving my comment.
I am trying to be an ZZZhole at this point. So goodbye Clayart. Have fun
shinny light up everyone else's xxx.
Sincerely,
Anagama Wood-Fired Vessels
By
Michael R. Morris
570-759-1768
mrmorris1@hotmail.com
drippyashpots@yahoo.com
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
William & Susan Schran User on tue 12 jul 05
On 7/12/05 11:23 AM, "Rick Bonomo" wrote:
> Should I use the orton small cones (same as used in the sitter) in a wad of
> clay, or large cones?
Use the large ones. Most glaze recipes with cone designation are based on
the large cones. You can adjust your kiln sitter using a cone higher than
your large target cone to melt/deform at the time.
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
Rick Bonomo on tue 12 jul 05
Hey kids,
So I finally decided to not just depend on the cone sitter, and =
actually use cones to actually know how hot the kiln is, or at least =
was.
Should I use the orton small cones (same as used in the sitter) in a =
wad of clay, or large cones?
Rick Bonomo
please reply to: agita@shol.com
Alistair Gillies on fri 19 aug 05
Hi,
I have come across some boxes of cones that are about 25 years old. Am I
imagining it or did I hear somewhere that modern cones are designed for
slightly different temps?
I have found full boxes of Orton 10, 9, 04, 08 and 011.
I also have a full box of 'Bell Research' cones labelled 06 - anyone know
what temp this is?
Thanks in advance,
Alistair
Above the Ironbridge Gorge
Snail Scott on sat 20 aug 05
At 10:24 PM 8/19/2005 +0100, you wrote:
>I have come across some boxes of cones that are about 25 years old. Am I
>imagining it or did I hear somewhere that modern cones are designed for
>slightly different temps?
Only very slightly different - you may never notice
unless your glazes are very fussy.
>I also have a full box of 'Bell Research' cones labelled 06 - anyone know
>what temp this is?
Bewll and Orton sitter cones (or bars) are
essentially interchangeable.
-Snail
Alistair Gillies on sun 21 aug 05
Thanks Snail,
A
From: "Snail Scott"
>>I have come across some boxes of cones that are about 25 years old. Am I
>>imagining it or did I hear somewhere that modern cones are designed for
>>slightly different temps?
>
> Only very slightly different - you may never notice
> unless your glazes are very fussy.
>
>
>>I also have a full box of 'Bell Research' cones labelled 06 - anyone know
>>what temp this is?
>
> Bell and Orton sitter cones (or bars) are
> essentially interchangeable.
>
> -Snail
Lester Haworth on wed 24 aug 05
When in doubt....Throw them out.
Les H.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Alistair
Gillies
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 2:25 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Cones
Hi,
I have come across some boxes of cones that are about 25 years old. Am I
imagining it or did I hear somewhere that modern cones are designed for
slightly different temps?
I have found full boxes of Orton 10, 9, 04, 08 and 011.
I also have a full box of 'Bell Research' cones labelled 06 - anyone know
what temp this is?
Thanks in advance,
Alistair
Above the Ironbridge Gorge
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Randy McCall on mon 26 sep 05
How can I tell when my Orton Cone 6 cones were made? I see some codes on
the outside.
My glazes are being under fired with a small cone 6 in the sitter.
According to my analog pyrometer the sitter is cutting off at 2150 degrees
F. I think it is hotter than that, but not a real cone 6. If I hold until
the pyrometer gets to 2200 degrees the glazes and clay look great. My
pyrometer seems to be consistent from firing to firing everytime. At 2200
degrees F a large Cone 6 is way down but not flat. Tip is about 1/4 on the
shelf.
Randy
Pottery Web Site
members.tripod.com/~McCallJ/index.html
South Carolina
Arnold Howard on tue 27 sep 05
From: "Randy McCall"
> My glazes are being under fired with a small cone 6 in the sitter.
> According to my analog pyrometer the sitter is cutting off at 2150 degrees
> F. I think it is hotter than that, but not a real cone 6. If I hold
> until
> the pyrometer gets to 2200 degrees the glazes and clay look great.
Pyrometers are often out of calibration, so the temperature readout may not
match the bending of a cone. But it doesn't matter as long as the pyrometer
helps you to get consistent results.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Snail Scott on tue 27 sep 05
At 08:54 PM 9/26/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>My glazes are being under fired with a small cone 6 in the sitter...
This happens consistently. I never use a
^6 in the sitter if I want a ^6 firing.
I use a ^7, or if I want a little leeway,
a ^8. Then I shut off the kiln according
to to the witness cones. Sitters work best
as a fail-safe; I'd rather trust the witness
cones for the actual firing temperature.
Even a properly calibrated sitter (have you
calibtated it?) is often not quite what the
witness cones confirm. I'll let it shut off
a bisque, but if I want accuracy I'd rather
do it manually.
-Snail
William & Susan Schran User on tue 27 sep 05
On 9/26/05 8:54 PM, "Randy McCall" wrote:
> My glazes are being under fired with a small cone 6 in the sitter.
Well, are you firing with the kiln sitter or by witness cones?
From your message it appears you are firing by the Kilnsitter and what you
will need to do is adjust the Kilnsitter to match your desirable bending of
the witness cones.
I would rather you fire using the witness cones as your guide, having the
tip of the cone bend down to the level of it's base.
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
mel jacobson on fri 21 sep 07
a cone is guide.
you learn to read cones. you know and understand
what they do in your kiln.
consistency is what you look for...your cones..however
you place them. you read from firing to firing the same
way.
i have one spy hole that is my main read.
i make the cone pats...the same.
who cares what direction.
do it the same.
you know your kiln...what the reading is.
just be consistent.
it is what comes from the kiln that counts.
after a thousand firings you will get to know
your kiln.
mel
from: mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
Clayart page link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
Gene Arnold on fri 21 sep 07
Do you bisque fire cone pats???
Gene mudduck@mudduckpottery.net
www.mudduckpottery.net
L. P. Skeen on fri 21 sep 07
I know they sell some that are bisque fired, but I never have done that =
- if you do, you have to make allowances for shrinkage, etc. Bit PITA. =
Just roll out your pack coil, use a ruler to make a straight line on the =
top. Place the cones in the clay to a depth of about 1/4 inch and be =
sure to mash a thumbprint at the end to catch that first cone when it =
melts. Make a bunch of these at once and set them aside to dry - the =
clay will shrink around the cones and hold them in place. :)
L
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Gene Arnold=20
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 5:19 PM
Subject: cones
Do you bisque fire cone pats???
Clayart SCtag on fri 21 sep 07
In a message dated 9/21/2007 7:03:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mudduck@MUDDUCKPOTTERY.NET writes:
Do you bisque fire cone pats???
no to bisque but do make them with vermiculite from box with clay then dry
ahead of firing.
Megm
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Kris Bliss on thu 25 oct 07
isn't there a timer on the kiln sitter??
bliss
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Cheryl
Fisher
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 6:17 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: cones
Oops. Someone asked if she used a timer. No this is a basic kiln. Kiln
sitter. No computer. No back up timer. Experienced with kiln.
But had recently had is rewired.
On Oct 25, 2007, at 3:33 PM, Cheryl Fisher wrote:
Cheryl Fisher
Sarasota, Florida USA
potterytalk@verizon.net
____________________________________________________________________________
__
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You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
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melpots2@visi.com
--
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1:14 PM
Cheryl Fisher on thu 25 oct 07
We recently had a meltdown of a kiln. It had been rewired and redone a
month ago and has been firing fine.
This time it way overfired. All pots gone, broken, stuck to shelves and
the shelves collapsed on top of each other.
The person who rewired the kiln, and has done all the work, came and
looked at it and said there was nothing
wrong with the kiln but that the cause was an encapsulated cone (cone
6). Anybody heard of that?
Cheryl Fisher
Sarasota, Florida USA
potterytalk@verizon.net
Arnold Howard on thu 25 oct 07
From: "Cheryl Fisher"
> looked at it and said there was nothing
> wrong with the kiln but that the cause was an encapsulated
> cone (cone
I'm sorry your kiln overfired. I assume the Kiln Sitter did
not shut off. Did it have a Limit Timer also?
The cone may have stuck to the cone supports. When you came
back to the kiln after it overfired, had the Kiln Sitter
weight fallen?
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on thu 25 oct 07
On Oct 25, 2007, at 3:33 PM, Cheryl Fisher wrote:
> We recently had a meltdown of a kiln. It had been rewired and redone a
> month ago and has been firing fine.
> The person who rewired the kiln, and has done all the work, came and
> looked at it and said there was nothing
> wrong with the kiln but that the cause was an encapsulated cone (cone
> 6). Anybody heard of that?
Cheryl--
I'm sorry you had such a bad overfiring, but there is a lesson here.
ALWAYS be present around the time you expect the kiln to be reaching
temperature. ALWAYS have witness cones visible. (And yes, this
applies to kilns with controllers as well--when the controller is
broken, the relays tend to stick in the "open" position, thus keeping
the kiln on after reaching temperature and beyond.)
Cones do fail, with depressing regularity, for a variety of
reasons. If you can't be present for the end of the firing,
reschedule it to when you can be there. A little inconvenience is a
small price to pay to avoid what you are going through. I speak as
someone who had her kiln melt down like yours (due to a studio renter
not making arrangements to be there when his firing was finishing);
once melted, forever careful!
Lynn
Lynn Goodman
Fine Porcelain Pottery
Cell 347-526-9805
www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
William & Susan Schran User on thu 25 oct 07
On 10/25/07 3:33 PM, "Cheryl Fisher" wrote:
> The person who rewired the kiln, and has done all the work, came and
> looked at it and said there was nothing
> wrong with the kiln but that the cause was an encapsulated cone (cone
> 6). Anybody heard of that?
Never heard of such a cone.
Why not contact Orton and ask if they are aware of this term?
http://www.ortonceramic.com/
Is the kiln manual or programmable?
Do you write about the small cone in the Kilnsitter?
I'm sorry for your trouble, but now you understand why most of us advocate
using witness cones in all firings and being around when the end of the
firing is anticipated.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Cheryl Fisher on thu 25 oct 07
Thanks for the opinions.
Fortunately and unfortunately it was not my firing. It was at the
studio I work out of. Fortunately because I was not firing it,
unfortunately I had stuff in there.
The person who fired has been firing for 30+ years and only had this
happen once before. She is very attentive to the kiln. She left for a
period of time and it seemed that it went faster than normal. It was a
cone 6 firing but went way above that if the cone evaporated. When she
opened the kiln the cone had vaporized. The kiln person used the term
"encapsulated cone" putting the blame on the cone. We had never heard
that term so were asking to see if anyone else knew what he meant. I
suggested she contact Orton.
Cheryl Fisher
Sarasota, Florida USA
potterytalk@verizon.net
Cheryl Fisher on thu 25 oct 07
Oops. Someone asked if she used a timer. No this is a basic kiln. Kiln
sitter. No computer. No back up timer. Experienced with kiln.
But had recently had is rewired.
On Oct 25, 2007, at 3:33 PM, Cheryl Fisher wrote:
Cheryl Fisher
Sarasota, Florida USA
potterytalk@verizon.net
Lois Ruben Aronow on fri 26 oct 07
No disrespect meant, but "experienced with kiln" means you are present
during the firing. Or, at the very least, when it's due to turn off.
The kiln is not at fault for this - the potter is.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
> Cheryl Fisher
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:17 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: cones
>
> Oops. Someone asked if she used a timer. No this is a basic
> kiln. Kiln sitter. No computer. No back up timer. Experienced
> with kiln.
> But had recently had is rewired.
>
> On Oct 25, 2007, at 3:33 PM, Cheryl Fisher wrote:
>
> Cheryl Fisher
> Sarasota, Florida USA
> potterytalk@verizon.net
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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Taylor Hendrix on fri 26 oct 07
Cheryl,
Thanks for the updated information here. If the kiln really did rocket
up faster than normal, something else is going on here besides potter
inattentiveness. If the heat rise is fast enough I could see how it
would cause problems with the cone bending properly. That being said,
I have never ever heard of a cone vaporizing. I fire to cone 6 and for
the cone to be poof, gone after an overfiring is incredible, really.
If the kiln refitter is saying that the cone somehow fused in a way
that prevented itself from bending at the prescribed heat work, I
would suggest following your and other's advice and check with Orton.
Sounds suspect to me, but I'm still rather green/just sintering
myself.
Cone 6 sticking on the cone supports is for sure a possibility. I
always try to dab a bit of kiln wash only on the upper surface of the
support and have it dry before loading the cone. At least one cone a
shelf too. Sorry about the flub. Let's make more pots to melt!
Taylor, in Rockport TX, fixin' to leave Grueneward come 6:30pm. Yee Haw!
On 10/25/07, Cheryl Fisher wrote:
> Thanks for the opinions.
>
...
it seemed that it went faster than normal. It was a
> cone 6 firing but went way above that if the cone evaporated. When she
> opened the kiln the cone had vaporized.
...
mel jacobson on thu 23 dec 10
they melt when the are ready.
there are thousands of variables.
the best use of cones is to compare a series of firings to the
work that comes out.
if the cones are bent over, and the work is not finished, fire more.
go up a cone.
wood affects cones differently than standard gas firings.
i have had to learn what works for me.
i fire to cone 11.
that is what works.
i have my cones placed in the same spots, for firing after firing.
if i changed the spots, my kiln would not be the same.
that knowledge comes after maybe 2,000 firings.
i can't place the cones high in the kiln for one firing,
then low the next.
we fire to cone 13 in our wood kiln...but most of the pots
seem to be like cone 10. ash, flame and atmosphere change
everything. it takes experience to know how your cones react.
i am a firm believer that cone 10 is 11 half way over.
a cone should bend over and just touch the shelf.
a cone 9 bent at 2 o'clock is cone 8.
even how you place a cone in a kiln sitter makes a big
difference. some place the cone with the narrow end on
the rod, that is a half cone light.
if the rod is on the heavy part of the cone...that is at least
a half cone hot.
what a cone is, is what you determine it is.
it depends on the work that comes out of the kiln.
mel
i sure see a great many pots at shows that would really be
beauties at one cone higher. (fear controls so much. `what if i ruin
the pots?` who knows til you try.)
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
new book: http://www.21stcenturykilns.com
alternate: melpots7575@gmail.com
Lee Love on thu 23 dec 10
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:43 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> we fire to cone 13 in our wood kiln...but most of the pots
> seem to be like cone 10. =3DA0ash, flame and atmosphere change
> everything. =3DA0it takes experience to know how your cones react.
Draw tiles are the best way to judge glaze surface effect in wood and
vapor kilns.
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
John Rodgers on tue 20 dec 11
I fire electric with computer controlled kilns. And in spite of having
the latest and greatest in computer controlled kilns - I don't trust
computers. I don;t trust them to turn off when they are supposed to - so
I'm always there for the last of a firing so ensure all goes well in the
end and the computer shuts off. I don't trust the numbers a kiln
computer shows me either. If the kiln computer and the bent cone agree -
that's terrific - but what if they don't agree. What if the computer
temp says cone 5 was reached at 2166F but the witness cone is near
straight? Somebody is lying? I trust the cone - not the computer.
Fortunately, I can push my kiln to go to the proper cone bending, note
the temp on the computer screen - then do an adjustment procedure and
set my computer for a proper firing. I would not DARE to rely just on
that computer. It's nice an all that. Makes firing somewhat easier - but
that cone is what really tells the story - and the computer is only a
supplement to that cone. You can fire a kiln forever without a computer.
You can do it without a pyrometer. Heck even do it without a kiln
sitter. But you cannot fire it and get good results without that cone
telling you about the time, temperature and heatwork - no way.
So - I watch the cones, see what they are telling me, and adjust the
computer accordingly. As they age, heating element performance will
change. The cone with tell what the elements are doing, and variations
can be compensated for with adjustments to the computer. Eventually the
cone - in conjuction with your clock - will tell you when it's time to
change out the elements. That cone won't bend in a forever firing. Time
for new elements.
John
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 12/20/2011 10:31 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> thanks for that paul. very good explanation.
>
> i set my pyrometer to `one` cone.
>
> i sometimes add a cone 6 at the front of my cone pack.
> so.
> cone 6, 9, 10, 11.
>
> when cone 6 starts over i set my pyrometer
> to cone 6.
>
> it is not good setting it at cone 10 as it
> never reads the right way at 10/...always jumps way up.
>
> so. i have at least one setting that is accurate.
>
> i have a sharpie line at cone 08, another at 6.
> those are the lines when i make adjustments, and they
> seem to be rather accurate.
>
> i start serious reduction at cone 08, and do it when
> the needle of the pyrom is at the sharpie line.
>
> i usually turn the gas down starting at cone 6.
> then gradually drop the pressure every half hour.
>
> it is always good to adjust your pyrometer from time
> to time with a falling cone. (not your end cone.)
> cones rule.
> mel
>
>
>
> from: minnetonka, mn
> website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>
>
mel jacobson on tue 20 dec 11
thanks for that paul. very good explanation.
i set my pyrometer to `one` cone.
i sometimes add a cone 6 at the front of my cone pack.
so.
cone 6, 9, 10, 11.
when cone 6 starts over i set my pyrometer
to cone 6.
it is not good setting it at cone 10 as it
never reads the right way at 10/...always jumps way up.
so. i have at least one setting that is accurate.
i have a sharpie line at cone 08, another at 6.
those are the lines when i make adjustments, and they
seem to be rather accurate.
i start serious reduction at cone 08, and do it when
the needle of the pyrom is at the sharpie line.
i usually turn the gas down starting at cone 6.
then gradually drop the pressure every half hour.
it is always good to adjust your pyrometer from time
to time with a falling cone. (not your end cone.)
cones rule.
mel
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
Lynn Wheeler on fri 23 dec 11
Hello John and Clayarters,
I'm certainly enjoying the discussions on cones.
Hope you don't mind if I forward the description below to some of my
students at the Parks and Rec where I teach who have been told by various
people that if you have a computer controlled kiln you don't need cones. So
sad that myth is being perpetuated by those who have no experience using
cones.
And about reading cones from the previous thread, I once spent 3 years doin=
g
nothing but firing kilns and reading cones back in the late 70's when I was
lucky enough to be hired as the quality control tech for Orton, working for
Dale Fronk. I handmade all the cone packs for the testing back then, as I
don't think they had commercial cone packs yet. Since then, I still prefer
making my own, as the commercial ones I've seen may leave too much play of
space between the cone and the holder. And, absolutely yes, that angle and
height makes a great difference and must be consistent. I can probably plac=
e
them in clay at identical angles and heights in my sleep.
Plus, in making my own, I arrange them so they take up less room for
viewing, which leaves me needing less open space in front of them so I can
see them backlit by an element. I line them up in the clay so they all face
forward, not one toward the next one, and then I rotate the pack almost 90
degrees so I can only see the top tip silhouettes until the first one start=
s
to melt. This saves a lot of viewing pathway space. I also have a series of
pieces of firebrick of varying heights to place them on to make sure that
the element is in the right place in relation to the bending cones (right
about in the middle of the cone works best for me). The melted cones, even
the melted guide cone, never stick to firebrick.
Holiday blessings to all and thank you for being this amazing resource.
Lynn Wheeler
Worthington, Ohio
I fire electric with computer controlled kilns. And in spite of having
the latest and greatest in computer controlled kilns - I don't trust
computers. I don;t trust them to turn off when they are supposed to - so
I'm always there for the last of a firing so ensure all goes well in the
end and the computer shuts off. I don't trust the numbers a kiln
computer shows me either. If the kiln computer and the bent cone agree -
that's terrific - but what if they don't agree. What if the computer
temp says cone 5 was reached at 2166F but the witness cone is near
straight? Somebody is lying? I trust the cone - not the computer.
Fortunately, I can push my kiln to go to the proper cone bending, note
the temp on the computer screen - then do an adjustment procedure and
set my computer for a proper firing. I would not DARE to rely just on
that computer. It's nice an all that. Makes firing somewhat easier - but
that cone is what really tells the story - and the computer is only a
supplement to that cone. You can fire a kiln forever without a computer.
You can do it without a pyrometer. Heck even do it without a kiln
sitter. But you cannot fire it and get good results without that cone
telling you about the time, temperature and heatwork - no way.
So - I watch the cones, see what they are telling me, and adjust the
computer accordingly. As they age, heating element performance will
change. The cone with tell what the elements are doing, and variations
can be compensated for with adjustments to the computer. Eventually the
cone - in conjuction with your clock - will tell you when it's time to
change out the elements. That cone won't bend in a forever firing. Time
for new elements.
John
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 12/20/2011 10:31 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
thanks for that paul. very good explanation.
i set my pyrometer to `one` cone.
i sometimes add a cone 6 at the front of my cone pack.
so.
cone 6, 9, 10, 11.
when cone 6 starts over i set my pyrometer
to cone 6.
it is not good setting it at cone 10 as it
never reads the right way at 10/...always jumps way up.
so. i have at least one setting that is accurate.
i have a sharpie line at cone 08, another at 6.
those are the lines when i make adjustments, and they
seem to be rather accurate.
i start serious reduction at cone 08, and do it when
the needle of the pyrom is at the sharpie line.
i usually turn the gas down starting at cone 6.
then gradually drop the pressure every half hour.
it is always good to adjust your pyrometer from time
to time with a falling cone. (not your end cone.)
cones rule.
mel
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
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