Jonathan Kaplan on sun 22 dec 96
I'll add my opinion to this discussion as simply as I can.
I have some fine realtionships with galleries that I consign my limited
edition pieces. They provide me with accurate monthly statements and have
been consistent in paying me according to the terms of my consigment
agreement. I am pleased to work with these galleries and have developed
many long term relationships with the owners and their staff.
I do not consign my production line. It is affordable and accessable. If I
am approached by a retail store or gallery to consign this body of work, I
politely decline. It is not a personal affront to me as I amable to
wholesale my work at margins that work for me to other venues that agree to
my terms, which are very simple: minimum of $250.00, no minimum on
re-orders. First 2 orders are COD always.(references required and checked
out) FOB my shop. packing charge of $10.00/box (all double boxed and overly
well packed).
Any subsequent shipments after the first COD shipments are net 30 days from
receipt of goods and my invoice. I am on the phone at 31 days and have been
relatively consistant in receiving payment within 35 days. Late payments
are not tolerated and if a pattern develops, my terms revert to COD only. I
will also accept prepayment.
Margins are too slim on my production wares and cash flow too essential for
the health of my business to be a nice guy when my terms are abused.
Happy Holidays to all on the list!!
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan
Ceramic Design Group Ltd./Production Services
PO Box 775112
Steamboat Springs CO 80477
jonathan@csn.net
(970) 879-9139*voice and fax
http://www.craftweb.com/org/jkaplan/cdg.shtml
Beverly Crist on wed 28 may 97
I'm sure there are a lot of good consignment galleries out there but over the
weekend I learned that a gallery which carries my work on consignment closed
up with no warning and no forwarding address. This is the fourth time this
has happened to me in about 10 years. During that time I've also had two
galleries close who contacted the artists first. The police will not help
since they say it's not a felony so basically you have to track the owner
down on your own and hope that you can get your work back.
I've been off the list for a while, thanks to AOL, but know there's been some
discussion of consignment, so there's my two cents worth.
Beverly
in Dallas, Texas
Karl P. Platt on thu 29 may 97
If you do consignment, make damn sure you have a contract that spells out
real clearly what was given in *consignment*, for how long it was give, to
whom it was given and when it was given.
There are legal remedies for problems with consignments. It's called a
replevin proceeding. You can ask your lawyer about this -- or perhaps
there's a lawyer here who'd like to elaborate. In short, you are obliged
to post a bond in the amount of the value of the work. Then the local
sheriff goes and gets the work. The gallerist has 30 days to respond to
all of this and if they don't you get your work and the bond back.
An aquaintance had a problem with a gallery some years back which was
resolved by such means and the existence of a clearly written contract.
This involved several thousands of dollars worth of work. SOmeone
aquainted with the gallery purchased work privately some long months
after seeing the work in the gallery. The gallery claimed they were owed a
comission, however, they only had a consignment contract -- which, again,
was very clear as to that point.
KPP -- likes cash sales
Ray Carlton on fri 30 may 97
At 09:43 AM 28/05/97 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I'm sure there are a lot of good consignment galleries out there but over the
>weekend I learned that a gallery which carries my work on consignment closed
>up with no warning and no forwarding address. This is the fourth time this
>has happened to me in about 10 years. During that time I've also had two
>galleries close who contacted the artists first. The police will not help
>since they say it's not a felony so basically you have to track the owner
>down on your own and hope that you can get your work back.
>
>I've been off the list for a while, thanks to AOL, but know there's been some
>discussion of consignment, so there's my two cents worth.
>
>Beverly
>in Dallas, Texas
>
>Consignment is for amatuers only. If a gallery director asks for my work
on consignment I imediately think less of that person. If they don't
understand what type of ceramic their clients are likel;y to buy I wouldn't
trust them to market my work in any serious way. I have a long list of
people who regularly buy my work straight up. It is my opinion that potters
who are serious about selling their work so they can keep on making, should
not supply any gallery that handles work only on consignment. Let the
galleries who deal in this way sell the work of the amatuers. Nowhere else
in manufacturing [and lets not be too precious about what we do, we are
small manufacturers] do the buyers of product expect to try a product and
pay you some time later if it sells. A higher level of professionalism is
expected on both sides.
Ray Carlton McMahons Creek Victoria Australia
raycarlt@ozonline.com.au
mel jacobson on fri 4 dec 98
as i said the other day.......i have been bitten several times hard
by the consignment bug.
it taught me a great lesson......`mel, sell your own pots and paintings.`
and that is what i have done.
consignment one:
`mel, please can we have your pots, about 50 of them....we are old
friends, i will sell them all..` gave them 50 pots......did not hear a word
for awhile.....went to the store....empty. never a word....former good
friend.
consignment two:
former student, good guy, reliable.
`mel, can we have about 40 of your best pots, we will sell them all.`
we only take 30%.
3 months later, went to the shop......empty. former good friend, student.
still looking for that bastard. and that was 20 years ago.
consignment three:
gave a shop 10 pieces, waited three months, she gave them back...
said `they don't sell`..............she wanted 5 dollar pots.
so:
i made a decision. sell my own pots.
i know without questions that there are some great shops out there,
doing a land office business in consignment...
god bless them.
but they cannot have my pots. i give myself 100% commission.
just the way i do my stuff......and i like it.
and people love coming to my studio, wandering around, taking time.
find what they want, and the price is always right.
open 24hours a day, 365.
if i am not home, they just take things, leave the money. i leave
the wrapping paper, packing stuff......often i have a check for 50-100
bucks sitting on my wheel.
only got nicked once in my life........a school administrator from our
school, wrote a bad check for 75 bucks......of course i did not care
if i got the check........`just told everyone`.....it was worth the money.
but, i have to admit, if this was my full time, no other income, and
it fed my kids and paid the gas bill........my tune would change a bit.
it all depends on your situation, what you can tolerate, and what you can
afford.......and that is what business is all about.
mel/mn
quote of the day...father anthony.`i just don't know where the pots
come from, but they just keep coming....`
what a delight, and what a delightful human being.
(i tease him a bit, tell him to hush up (trappist you know)...but he is a
former
designer for `allis chalmers tractors`, so all is well with the world.)
http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Robert S. Bruch on sun 6 dec 98
collection of debts can be made somewhat easy by using
small claims court. The costs to litigate are minimal
and obtaining a judgement is not difficult. Anyone who
can operate a computer to get on this list could successfully
litigate in small claims court. The problem is collection.
If the business that you consign to was incorporated, and
that organization declares bankruptcy, then it could be
difficult if not impossible to collect. If an individual
ran the business without incorporation, one might be able
to get a collection agency to assist. IfI lost pots and
money from a person and I had an inkling that they might
have some assets, I would certainly pursue the matter.
--
Bob Bruch rsb8@po.cwru.edu
John Rodgers on thu 10 dec 98
-- [ From: John Rodgers * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
Robert S. Burch said>>
>>The problem is collection. If the business that you consign to was
incorporated, and that organization declares bankruptcy, then it could be
difficult if not impossible to collect.<<
A corporation is a legal entitiy that has persons(officers) that bear the
responsibility of the actions of the corporation, at least to some degree.
In some cases they can actually go to jail for some actions. They answer to
the board of direcrtors, who answer to the shareholders. Shareholders are
absolutely protected from damaging action by officers.
A corporation, big or small, because of their special status as an entity,
created under law, can be held responsible for the disposition of goods or
money under consignment law. Ultimately it's the officers who have to answer
to the law, either for the corporation of for themselves, depending on how
the chips fall. Under a consignment contract, the corporation becomes a
trustee, and as such, may still be held liable for prosecution even in the
event of a bankruptcy if the goods or money for the consignment are not
returned to the consignor.
Also, in a bankruptcy, often an adjudicator is assigned to a case to deal
with issues, and it is possible to get paid directly by the court, in some
cases, especially when a re-organization is to be worked out. The payment to
the consignor can be built into the process.
Bankruptcy doesn't necessarily wipe the slate 100% clean. It can, but not
always. Bankruptcy allows some assets to be retained and allows most, but
not all debts to be cancelled. But I suspect goods on consignment are a
little different because of the trust nature of it.
Again, some conjecture on my part, but not without some basis in my readings
..
John Rodgers
In Alabama
Kathi LeSueur on thu 10 dec 98
I see absolutely NO reason for any functional potter who has work of
reasonable quality and price to sell their work on a consignment basis. The
demand for functional pots is very strong and there are numerous galleries and
shops willing and ABLE to purchase work outright.
A shop that both consigns and buys outright will be more inclined to place the
work they actually bought in the most favorable display locations while
leaving the consigned work for filler. Often consigned work lanquishes in the
storage of the shop waiting for the purchased work to be sold before being put
out.
I have never had a problem being paid by a shop. I'm both lucky and careful.
The practice of shipping the first order C.O.D. and subsequent orders "net 30"
in my opinion is a stupid one. Either an outlet deserves terms or it doesn't.
Determining which is subject to a credit application. Ours requires a number
of things. Who owns the shop? Who is authorized to buy? Is this a sole
proprietor, partnership, or corporation? Where is the location of the shop and
is this different from the billing address? And most important of all, artist
references. I don't want to hear about those commercial accounts a shop has
that they pay all of the time. I want to know what artists sell to them. And,
I always check those references. In fact, I often call other potters I know
and ask if they have sold to this new shop and what was their experience.
If all of the information checks out, then that shop is given terms with their
first order. If a shop doesn't fill out the application then their order goes
C.O.D. No exceptions. I have several shops that I've sold to for several
years. I've sent each more than one copy of the credit app. They have never
returned it and they remain on C.O.D.
If a shop goes over 30 days (actually more like 60) their terms are revoked
and the next order goes out C.O.D. I never ship a shop an order until the
previous invoice has been paid. If the work is selling that fast then they are
able to pay me quicker and I am able to re-ship to them quicker.
I'm lucky. There is a demand for my work. But, there is a strong demand for
most functional work. If that is you, I think the above can be adapted to your
situation.
Kathi
Vince Pitelka on fri 11 dec 98
>I see absolutely NO reason for any functional potter who has work of
>reasonable quality and price to sell their work on a consignment basis. The
>demand for functional pots is very strong and there are numerous galleries and
>shops willing and ABLE to purchase work outright.
After all the discussion on this subject I expected that we had gotten past
this sort of post. Obviously there are a number of you who do not believe
in consignment at all, but many others, myself included, who have discussed
good experiences with consignment and compelling reasons why consignment can
be a good thing. Why don't you give us a little credit and drop the kind of
pretensions indicated above?
Thanks -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Fay & Ralph Loewenthal on fri 11 dec 98
Here in South Africa there is way to protect
oneself by stating on one's invoices that the
goods supplied remain the property of the
consignor / seller until paid for in full. One can
also make a condition in the contract that one is
a "Preferred Creditor" on the goods supplied until
they are paid for in full. This merely means that if
the gallery / gift shop goes bankrupt they have to
pay you out first or return the goods before
realising the cash to pay out the other creditors.
One would have to check with a Commercial
Lawyer to ensure that a valid contract exists. It
is usually worth the fee as you can have a basic
contract that you can use with all consignees.
Hope this helps Ralph in PE SA.
Ray Carlton on sun 13 dec 98
I am sorry you see the attitude of those who have a no go attitude towards
consigment being labeled as being pretentious
it is a purely commercial decision. At the busy end of the year who gets
priority your cash payers or those that only take work on consignment. When
you see the studios out put disappear at the end of every month why should
one hold work back for sale on consignment? How can you guarantee a client
suply on the basis of "I will sned you some whenever I have a few bits left
over"
when you add the extra time of keeping stock for somebody els's shop as
well I just feel it aint worth the hassle.
I feel that if everybody stuck together and didn't supply galleries on
consignment the practise would disappear
:)
At 13:43 10/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I see absolutely NO reason for any functional potter who has work of
>reasonable quality and price to sell their work on a consignment basis. The
>demand for functional pots is very strong and there are numerous galleries
and
>shops willing and ABLE to purchase work outright.
>
>A shop that both consigns and buys outright will be more inclined to place
the
>work they actually bought in the most favorable display locations while
>leaving the consigned work for filler. Often consigned work lanquishes in the
>storage of the shop waiting for the purchased work to be sold before being
put
>out.
>
>I have never had a problem being paid by a shop. I'm both lucky and careful.
>The practice of shipping the first order C.O.D. and subsequent orders "net
30"
>in my opinion is a stupid one. Either an outlet deserves terms or it doesn't.
>Determining which is subject to a credit application. Ours requires a number
>of things. Who owns the shop? Who is authorized to buy? Is this a sole
>proprietor, partnership, or corporation? Where is the location of the shop
and
>is this different from the billing address? And most important of all, artist
>references. I don't want to hear about those commercial accounts a shop has
>that they pay all of the time. I want to know what artists sell to them. And,
>I always check those references. In fact, I often call other potters I know
>and ask if they have sold to this new shop and what was their experience.
>
>If all of the information checks out, then that shop is given terms with
their
>first order. If a shop doesn't fill out the application then their order goes
>C.O.D. No exceptions. I have several shops that I've sold to for several
>years. I've sent each more than one copy of the credit app. They have never
>returned it and they remain on C.O.D.
>
>If a shop goes over 30 days (actually more like 60) their terms are revoked
>and the next order goes out C.O.D. I never ship a shop an order until the
>previous invoice has been paid. If the work is selling that fast then they
are
>able to pay me quicker and I am able to re-ship to them quicker.
>
>I'm lucky. There is a demand for my work. But, there is a strong demand for
>most functional work. If that is you, I think the above can be adapted to
your
>situation.
>
>Kathi
>
cheers Ray Carlton
McMahons Creek Victoria Australia
Karen Gringhuis on mon 14 dec 98
Ray - If we "didn't supply galleries on consigmt, the pracice woulddisappear" -- well, it might disappear and take some of the
galleries along with it, incl. those which support NON_profit
institutions such as municipal art centers which TEACH fledgling
artists, children, etc. and bring a lot of good things to their communities.
One of my consmt shops has the best possible inventory systems
and pays VERY promptly. I think you're overeacting to make such
sweeping generalities - and I haven't slightest intention of
stopping consgmt sales. I also think this discussion has gone
one far to long already. Back to work. Karen Gringhuis
Carolynn Palmer on mon 14 dec 98
Personally, I don't think KLeSueur's opinion on consignment is pretentious.
She has stated her opinion and what works for her. She has also provided us
with how she has worked out credit terms with wholesale buyers. Something I
found very interesting and educational.
I have had a lot of experience with consignment and I prefer selling outright
wholesale. In my experience, consignment ties up a lot of inventory and leads
to all kinds of payment difficulties and aggravations. When it works well, it
does greatly benefit both parties involved. But, in my experience it usually
doesn't work well at all.
First there are late payments, then missing payments, then missing inventory,
pretty soon they won't call you back or answer your calls, then the store
becomes missing (sometimes with my pots!) And it can be emotionally draining
as well as financially disastrous when it all goes wrong. The store or gallery
owner is stressed to the max watching their investment and life's love go down
the drain. They take it out on you when you demand payment or return of your
work. It is worse than breaking up with a lover or spouse.
I do still believe in consignment to support art guilds and this type of
groups that have a proven track record.
Carolynn Palmer, Somerset Center, Michigan
Vince Pitelka on fri 18 dec 98
You can keep hashing over the consignment issue all you want, but this will
be my last post on the subject, because personally I think you are all going
around in circles. I am appalled at the reactionary and inflexible nature
of some of the anti-consignment posts which have appeared in this discussion.
I have sold my work both wholesale and consignment for almost 30 years. The
only times I have been ripped off have been on wholesale accounts that
bailed out of the business while still owing me money. It happens, but it
only happened to me very rarely. I have never lost any money or work with a
consignment account.
Those of you who have been on Clayart for some time know that I usually give
good advice, so please take me seriously when I say DO NOT PAY ANY ATTENTION
TO THOSE DOOMSAYERS WHO SAY CONSIGNMENT IS NOT WORTH YOUR WHILE. For the
life of me I cannot figure out what they think they have to gain by making
such blanket negative statements about consignment. I am pleased to hear an
opinion from anyone, but some of these anti-consignment posts have been
presented as statements of fact, rather than personal opinions.
And of course, before putting your work in any gallery on consignment,
carefully check out the place, talk to other artists who sell there, find
out how long they have been in business. Get firm commitments up front as
to how your work will be managed, i.e. payment policies, inventory reports,
etc. Hold the gallery to their promises from the start, check up on them
month-to-month, and if they do not live up to their end of the bargain after
a few months, take your work out right away. In my experience, most of the
people who have gotten ripped off by consignment are those who put their
work in an "unknown" or brand new consignment gallery, and then six months
later decided to check up on it, only to find that the place has
dissappeared. We are all so busy in our studios, so it is easy to ASSUME
complete professionalism and honesty on the part of the gallery, whether it
is a wholesale or consignment account. But the reality is that many
galleries (even the long-lived ones) survive on a narrow profit margin, and
must often juggle payments each month. If you stay in touch with them on a
regular basis, maintain an active interest in their business, and respond to
their needs as much as possible, you will be one of those who gets paid
first each month.
If anyone wants to discuss this with me further off-line I'd be glad to do so.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
John Hesselberth on sat 19 dec 98
Vince Pitelka wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I am appalled at the reactionary and inflexible nature
>of some of the anti-consignment posts which have appeared in this discussion.
>
>I have sold my work both wholesale and consignment for almost 30 years. The
>only times I have been ripped off have been on wholesale accounts that
>bailed out of the business while still owing me money. It happens, but it
>only happened to me very rarely. I have never lost any money or work with a
>consignment account.
>
>Those of you who have been on Clayart for some time know that I usually give
>good advice, so please take me seriously when I say DO NOT PAY ANY ATTENTION
>TO THOSE DOOMSAYERS WHO SAY CONSIGNMENT IS NOT WORTH YOUR WHILE.
Vince,
I've stayed on the sidelines on this one, but I'd like to try to
reconcile the two positions. On average, I believe it is true that
consignment shops are run by less experienced people and are
significantly less well capitalized. Therefore consignment shops, on
average, are more likely to fail. Having low capitalization is one of
the major reasons for deciding the run your shop as a consignment shop.
There are exceptions, of course, on both sides. There are wholesale
shops run by inexperienced people who just happen to have enough money to
buy and don't want to be bothered with a complex inventory management
system. There are consignment shops run by very experienced people who,
for one of several reasons, prefer to run their shop on consignment. But
I want to focus on averages here.
Therefore, for a person who doesn't run the careful checks on references
that you describe the odds are they are more likely to get burned on
consignment than on wholesale. The fact is that a lot of consignment
shops do not have the sound inventory systems, the timely payment
policies, the fair written agreements, etc that you describe for the same
reason that particular shop chose to be a consignment shop--they are
either undercapitalized and/or inexperienced. Therefore, again on
average, people have had more bad experiences with consignment shops.
Was it their own fault becasue they didn't check carefully what they were
getting into? Probably in most cases, yes; although few of us really
like to admit that when it was clearly the consignment shop's failure
that was the "significant" event causing us to lose our pots or money.
I think both kinds of shops have a legitimate place in potter's lives;
both have certain advantages that have been pointed out in earlier posts.
However the kinds of questions we should ask before we do business with
one or the other are quite different and much more straigtforward with a
wholesale shop. With a wholesale shop we are mainly concerned with
whether or not they pay their bills on time. Sometimes we don't even
care about that if we ship only COD. With a consignment shop we must
have confidence they pay their bills on time but we also should worry
about the quality of their inventory system as well as the existence of
and the fairness of the written agreement. Those are questions a lot of
potters either don't like to ask or don't want to be bothered with or
don't know how the evaluate the answer they are given. If they are
unwilling or unable, for whatever reason, to probe into these extra areas
they should stick to wholesaling. If they are willing and able to probe
and say "no thank you" when their probe comes up short, their experience
with consignment will probably be good like yours has been.
John Hesselberth
Frog Pond Pottery
P.O. Box 88
Pocopson, PA 19366 USA
EMail: john@frogpondpottery.com web site: http://www.frogpondpottery.com
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed, and
hence clamorous to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless
series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H.L. Mencken, 1925
Ray Carlton on sat 19 dec 98
Anybody who puts an opinion contrary to your own can be called a
reactionary. So I guess if I disagree with some of you then I am a
reactionary. However may I just reiterate several points on this subject. I
have taken a commercial decision regarding the non supply oif galleries
that request work on consignment for the following reasons.
1. I don't have time to keep inventory of work outside the studio.
2. I can not guarantee a constant supply of work during peak load times.
3. Why should I put work out on this basis when I can barely keep up with
demand from paying customers.
4. Supplying work from professional studios on a consignment basis helps to
reinforce the culture of galleries not paying artists for work up front.
I make no apologies for standing up and saying what I believe in. All I am
trying to acheive is to get the message across to those starting out is
that you don't have to consign your work. If it is good honest work you
will easily find people willing to pay up front for it
cheers Ray Carlton
McMahons Creek Victoria Australia
Vince Pitelka on sun 20 dec 98
>> Get firm commitments up front as
>> to how your work will be managed, i.e. payment policies, inventory reports,
>> etc.
Someone emailed me privately and asked me to expand upon the "etc" above. I
thought it might be of interest to others on the list.
As I said before, when you approach a consignment gallery, always ask about
other artists who sell there, and contact them personally about their
experiences with the gallery. If the gallery will not put you in touch with
other artists they handle, then do not deal with them at all, because
apparently they have something to hide.
When making arrangments to sell on consignment, find out in advance how
often the gallery pays commissions on sales, and find out what kind of
documentation will accompany those payments. Get them to give you some
assurance of how much of your current stock will be out on display, and get
a promise that they will contact you if for any reason they remove more of
your work from display. Also, it is their responsibility to inventory your
stock at least once a year, and to provide you an accounting of that
inventory. And of course if any of your work is lost or broken while in
their possession they owe you the commission.
But as I said in the earlier post, it is your responsibility to stay in
touch with the gallery. If you want them to be responsible in representing
your work, then it is essential that you be responsible in all your dealings
with the gallery. Maintain high expectations of gallery professionalism,
and show a good example by maintaining high standards of professionalism
yourself. When possible, respond to special requests by the gallery and
their customers. If you establish a good friendly professional relationship
with them, they will look out for your best interests.
Good luck and good sales -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Patricia J. Smith on tue 22 dec 98
Question, Does anyone have a copy of a consignment agreement that I could
use as a quide, for a galley I am considering putting my pottery in? This is
her first time opening a Gallery and will take my advice, so if you do pleas
post it, or send to me directly.. thanks in advance...
Patricia
Black Bear Pottery
Ioway1@aol.com
Herb Moses on wed 7 apr 99
Don't feel stupid. Here's why I don't do consignment anymore:
Gallery #1: Was okay for awhile, but slow on payment. The owner lived
across the street from me, and would profusely apologize and promise to
write me a check tomorrow. He eventually closed. Two years later he
finally paid me for what he said he had sold. Where are the other pots he
had? Who knows. I gave up on those.
Gallery #2: Sold a bunch of stuff. I had to call them to ask, but they
did pay me. One of the guys who owned the shop died, and I felt bad asking
about my pots/money (offering condolences when I saw him). He sold the
shop at some point and someone else owns it, who has no idea what happened
to the pots or money. Neither does the surviving (former) owner.
Basically, you have to be a pain in the ass about it. The guy is ripping
you off, or at least using you as an interest free loan. You pursue him to
the extent that you feel like being a pain. If it is too aggravating to be
the bad guy, just write it off. If it makes you feel better to pursue him,
by all means. It is a shame that people put you in the position of having
to be nasty to receive that which they promised you. But he did the wrong,
not you.
Also, you can start being officious. Write lots of letters asking him to
detail the payment schedules, etc.
Herb
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:26:44 EDT
From: Maria Elaine Lanza
Subject: Gallery Non-payment
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Would any of you have any suggestions as to what recourse I may have to
collect from a gallery selling one of my teapots but haven't received
payment for?
Its been since December 1998 that I was told the piece sold... I have made
several calls only to be told in short to be patient and that the check
would arrive within 10 days. My last call was over a month ago. I have in
fact just thrown in the towel on this one and of course will not ship him
any more. I realize I took a chance by shipping a piece to an out of state
gallery but I was taken in by his appeal and that his gallery focuses on
teapots alone.
I'm tempted to tell you the gallery name and owner as a warning to others
but won't for fear of libel. This was my first effort in dealing with a out
of state gallery and believe me it has left a scar I don't want to
experience again.
If you have similar stories to share then just maybe I won't feel so bad or
stupid... Appreciate any responses. Thanks!
Marie Elaine
http://www.usapottery.com
Palm Springs Pottery
(opening soon)
Ray Carlton on thu 8 apr 99
everybody here knows my views on consigning work to galleries....it is not
on and your experience herb is a perfect illustration to support my argument
cheers Ray Carlton
McMahons Creek Victoria Australia
Janet H Walker on wed 16 jun 99
...I am about to venture into consignment for the first time...
...want to be prepared with a contract if they don't have one...
Yes. Absolutely you should do this. And be suspicious of a place
that doesn't have one. You must also talk with other people whose
work is there (and has been for a year or so). I would no longer
place pieces on consignment with a new gallery just starting out.
Let's just say "experience"...
There is a useful set of sample contracts in the back of a book I've
seen called "The Artists Survival Manual". (Books with titles like
that abound. Probably pays better writing than actually doing the
art.) Get one out of the library and take a look at the contracts.
Get photocopies. Now compare any contract that a gallery does offer
you with the sample from the book. Ask yourself and them questions
about the discrepancies. Watch especially for things about "sales"
and who exactly takes the hit if they are planning to discount things.
One thing to investigate with a consignment place is their inventory
record keeping. Ask to see what they would send you when an item
sells. If the answer is "just a check" then don't work with that
place. You'll never be able to find out what they sold and work
will disappear into the cracks. Ask whether they can generate a
report that shows exactly what work of yours is in the gallery at
any time. You must have a numbering system for your work that they
record when they sell the piece and when they report the sale to
you. Anything less than that is just not acceptable.
I'm not doing consignment any more. My two brief flings with it
were very unsatisfactory. You need a certain temperament (or a
large support person with that temperament) in order to successfully
manage consignment relationships in my experience. Your mileage may
vary.
Regards,
Jan Walker
Cambridge MA USA
Karen Shapiro on thu 17 jun 99
Hi all,
Just thought I'd share a couple extra clauses inserted into an existing
contract by my attorney:
"Audit: Artist may at any time during normal business hours of the gallery,
either in person or through an authorized agent, audit the gallery's handling
of the consigned goods by requiring an opportunity to inspect any work not
then being shown in the gallery, and by requiring provision of a copy of any
sale receipt for any work not physically present in the gallery. If the
gallery cannot provide a sales receipt for any work not physically present in
the gallery, payment to the artist for the work shall be due immediately.
Note: Any work taken in on consignment will be shown, provided that we in
our discretion may show as few as one work of the artist at any one time."
Hope this helps someone,
Karen in Sonoma
Earl Brunner on fri 18 jun 99
This last clause is a little unclear to me do you mean only one piece of work or
only one identical or similar piece of work?
Karen Shapiro wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> .........
> Note: Any work taken in on consignment will be shown, provided that we in
> our discretion may show as few as one work of the artist at any one time."
>
> Hope this helps someone,
> Karen in Sonoma
--
Love people and use things, not love things and use people.
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Karen Shapiro on fri 18 jun 99
Hi Earl,
This clause was added because I had heard that this guy has a nasty habit of
stowing work in a back room. I should have prefaced this by saying that I do
"one of a kind" sculptures and his original contract gave him the right NOT
to show work at all times. I understand that if there are multiples of work,
like pots, galleries only put out one of a kind; I wanted to be sure that he
has at least one piece out at all times. I actually would have said "all
work", but my attorney worded it this way and I went along with it, knowing
that this particular gallery is quite small.
Did that clarify anything? Hope so.
Karen
Barbara Lewis on sun 20 jun 99
Karen: I had a gallery that would do the same thing: store work in a back
room and then rotate the work around. I personally didn't care for that
approach and withdrew my work from the gallery. My work sitting in a
storeroom certainly isn't doing me any good and it won't sell there. I
believe the gallery owner should only take the quantity of work that they
are prepared to exhibit. If the work is purchased wholesale, then they
would have the option of doing what they want, but not while I currently own
the work. It may be a little more work for you to "refresh" her gallery
with new work, but it would be worth it. Barbara
At 10:58 AM 6/18/99 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hi Earl,
>
>This clause was added because I had heard that this guy has a nasty habit of
>stowing work in a back room. I should have prefaced this by saying that I do
>"one of a kind" sculptures and his original contract gave him the right NOT
>to show work at all times. I understand that if there are multiples of work,
>like pots, galleries only put out one of a kind; I wanted to be sure that he
>has at least one piece out at all times. I actually would have said "all
>work", but my attorney worded it this way and I went along with it, knowing
>that this particular gallery is quite small.
>Did that clarify anything? Hope so.
>Karen
>
Wellspring Clayworks
5412 Well Spring Road
La Plata, MD 20646
blewis@crosslink.net
(301) 932-3915
Paul Lewing on mon 21 jun 99
Barbara Lewis wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Karen: I had a gallery that would do the same thing: store work in a back
> room and then rotate the work around. I personally didn't care for that
> approach and withdrew my work from the gallery. My work sitting in a
> storeroom certainly isn't doing me any good and it won't sell there.
I had an experience with a very good gallery that suggests that this
depends on how it's done. This gallery had a large show space where
they had monthly one- or two-person shows. Then they had another large
room that had work by all their regular artists displayed as many
galleries do, not each work on a pedestal or anything, but plenty of
room to see stuff. Then they had what amounted to a small room or VERY
large closet that had shelves in it, room for several people to
comfortably be but not room to move around much. It was well lit, and
stuff was stacked a bit but there was room to move stuff around, and
each artist's work was all together.
If a buyer expressed interest in an artist's work in the shop room, they
let them go in the closet and root through what was there. They said
they made more than half their sales out of that little room. People
just loved "discovering" a treasure in there. When you had not much
stuff left in the closet, they knew it was time to get more of your
stuff. And if a piece didn't sell after getting the "special treatment"
in display, they moved it into the closet, where it often sold. They
even knew which shelves were "hot" and moved work around to sell it
better.
So before you automatically write off a store because they put your
stuff in a back room, check out the back room and ask what kind of
access customers have to it, and whether they actually make sales out of
there.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Barbara Lewis on tue 22 jun 99
Paul: It sounds as though your gallery owner well represented the artists.
I should have elaborated on the "back room" which was the gallery owner's
bedroom. She lived upstairs. The public did not have access to this room.
Barbara
At 09:15 AM 6/21/99 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Barbara Lewis wrote:
>>
>> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> Karen: I had a gallery that would do the same thing: store work in a back
>> room and then rotate the work around. I personally didn't care for that
>> approach and withdrew my work from the gallery. My work sitting in a
>> storeroom certainly isn't doing me any good and it won't sell there.
>
>I had an experience with a very good gallery that suggests that this
>depends on how it's done. This gallery had a large show space where
>they had monthly one- or two-person shows. Then they had another large
>room that had work by all their regular artists displayed as many
>galleries do, not each work on a pedestal or anything, but plenty of
>room to see stuff. Then they had what amounted to a small room or VERY
>large closet that had shelves in it, room for several people to
>comfortably be but not room to move around much. It was well lit, and
>stuff was stacked a bit but there was room to move stuff around, and
>each artist's work was all together.
>If a buyer expressed interest in an artist's work in the shop room, they
>let them go in the closet and root through what was there. They said
>they made more than half their sales out of that little room. People
>just loved "discovering" a treasure in there. When you had not much
>stuff left in the closet, they knew it was time to get more of your
>stuff. And if a piece didn't sell after getting the "special treatment"
>in display, they moved it into the closet, where it often sold. They
>even knew which shelves were "hot" and moved work around to sell it
>better.
>So before you automatically write off a store because they put your
>stuff in a back room, check out the back room and ask what kind of
>access customers have to it, and whether they actually make sales out of
>there.
>Paul Lewing, Seattle
>
Wellspring Clayworks
5412 Well Spring Road
La Plata, MD 20646
blewis@crosslink.net
(301) 932-3915
vince pitelka on sun 28 jan 01
We have been around and around on this before on Clayart. There is
absolutely nothing wrong with selling consignment, as long as the gallery is
reputable, as long as they will let you contact other consignment accounts,
as long as they do not charge you more than 40% consignment fee, and as long
as they notify you if they decide to stash your work in the back room. Make
up a standard consignment contract. Don't ask anything ridiculous, but just
make it clear that you will look out for the gallery's best interests as
long as they look out for yours. Always be willing to exchange work which
is not moving. If you have a series of consignment galleries, you can just
rotate work periodically among them, keeping the display of your work fresh
and new.
Don't assume that a consignment account is any more likely to rip you off
than a wholesale account. During my 10 years as a studio potter, I never
once was ripped off by a consignment account, whereas it happened a number
of times with wholesale accounts that went out of business without paying
their bills.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Campbell
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 10:49 AM
Subject: Wait for question # 2
> When question number one is " Do you do consignment?" learn to say
No
> and wait. Nine times out of ten, question number two is " What are your
> terms for wholesale?" and the buyers pull out their checkbook.
>
> I am embarrased to say how long it took for me to discover this and
> how many times I chased around for payment from questionable galleries.
>
> Now I sell first order pre-paid and offer 'net 30 days' after they
> submit 3 names for credit reference. I do consignment for one local
gallery
> run by potters who are honest and pay on time.
>
> Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Caschneider@AOL.COM on mon 29 jan 01
Would anyone be willing to share consignment contracts that they use???
Thanks
Colleen
Colleen A. Schneider
849 South Connor Street
Salt Lake City, UT 84108
(801) 582-311
caschneider@aol.com
WHC228@AOL.COM on mon 29 jan 01
I really didn't want to get sucked into this discussion, but here goes. As a
store owner I must think about all of the space in my store as part of the
cost of doing business. I have to pay those costs for the work that sells
well, and for the mistakes. When I buy the work I have more control over what
I sell it for. I can sell it for over the usual 50% or less. If it doesn't
sell well I can mark it down and get rid of it. Selling someone's work on
consignment doesn't work that way.
The artist sets the retail price. If it doesn't sell, it is a problem. What
do I do? Take it off the shelf. If I do that the artist is annoyed. That
piece of work is in the way for work that will sell. When the artists work
does sell it is wonderful, but alas, work on consignment usually doesn't.
In my gallery I would rather take the risk of buying what I believe will
sell, and also buy those wonderful things that make my gallery fun to own and
amaze my customers than to have the problems associated with consignment.
Consignment is an accounting job that I do not need. I get the argument from
folks wanting to put work in my gallery "It doesn't cost you anything for you
to have it in your gallery." That simply is not true. It costs me more not to
own it!
When I first started trying to sell my pots it was difficult for me to
understand why any gallery wouldn't want to have a lot of my stuff on
consignment. Thirty years of experience has taught me otherwise.
The only exception is when we give a "show" for someone. When we do that we
have a set time that the show runs, an agreed amount of work to be shown, and
an agreed upon percentage [ usually 60/40]. These shows are expensive to do
and rarely make us any money after all of the work, the advertising, and some
kind of opening party.
I do them to help promote the artist as well as the store, not to make money.
Bill
Charlie Cummings on mon 29 jan 01
Colleen,
The Standard Art Consignment Agreement can be found at:
http://www.allworth.com/Pages/standa.htm
"The Artist-Gallery Partnership: A Practical Guide to Consigning Art" by
Tad Crawford and Susan Mellon (http://www.allworth.com/Catalog/AC104.htm)
explains the Standard Consignment Agreement and has a section featuring the
laws concerning art consignment from each state.
Charlie
At 10:58 AM 1/29/01, you wrote:
>Would anyone be willing to share consignment contracts that they use???
>
>Thanks
>Colleen
>
>Colleen A. Schneider
>849 South Connor Street
>Salt Lake City, UT 84108
>(801) 582-311
>caschneider@aol.com
bill edwards on thu 17 mar 05
I often see several threads about the woe's and pro's
of consignment. I personally don't like consignment
unless there is a very good understanding between
potter and place of consignment just as the reasoning
from the earlier thread comes, in regards to payment,
etc.
Potters have to pay their power bills, buy equipment
and glaze materials as well as clay and have a host of
other hidden costs as well. We, as potters do not get
our products consigned to us by the suppliers! We pay
in advance. For professional potters consignment is
more often 'not' the method used (NOTE: NOT often
being a key element in this statement) but there are
small town galleries and other places that would pick
a consignment over quality at times because they can
stock at no cost and the product can wait it out on
their shelves till someone decides to buy it. Artists
of many kinds of media see this becomming more the
rule than it should be.
I refuse to consign products that I pay for, my time
as well as my extra efforts to anyone unless I set the
contractual agreement. If they can't live with that
since its not costing them anything I can move on to
those who have a better grasp on business. I also
firmly believe that those who have an investment in
your work have more invested interests in selling your
work. I am not against consignment, I suggest it be
done as professionally as possible and make sure that
it is in your favor as often as possible. Code numbers
can be assigned to potters who leave their work at
consignment shops. The ticket can have that code on it
as well as price. My Studio/Gallery names is Edmar
Arts now. It would be easy to put E.A.01 $0.00 on a
piece and log that in my files and when it sold I
would collect on that piece. I wouldn't even worry
about a picture unless it was my own personal visual
purposes. For that, there is a thumb nail program
thats totally free that is a good computer aid for
storing thumbs of your work in their own folder with
description. Picasa2 from Google.
I have tons of respect for potters and I would only
wish the best for anyone who works hard in the field
to bring their work to the forefront. In order to do
that, I also believe that a consigned shop, if making
money off your work (?), would be willing to start
investing in you after a period of time! I would be
interested in hearing more pro and con's from
consignment even though we covered this before. Time
changes, I ponder if thoughts have changed in favor of
potters who pay up front and still feel they have to
consign their work to make ends meet?
Commissions are different. How do you handle
commissions?
Bill Edwards
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
| |
|
