Jonathan Kaplan on wed 14 aug 96
I have been asked my a colleague to post an inquiry to the list.
Anyone out there use a non-deairing pug mill and has any clay related
problems or not from the lack of a deairing chamber. Can you throw directly
from the pug or must it be wedged some more? Any thoughts on brands?
I have already given my colleague my thoughts on the matter,. but he asled
me to pass it onto this group for collective wisdom.
TIA
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan
Ceramic Design GroupLtd./Production Services
PO Box 775112
Steamboat Springs CO 80477
(970) 879-9139 voice and fax
call before faxing
"Show up, pay attention, be a good listener, tell the truth, don't be
attatched to the results!"
Kenneth A. Moore on wed 14 aug 96
At 01:19 AM 8/14/96 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I have been asked my a colleague to post an inquiry to the list.
>
>Anyone out there use a non-deairing pug mill and has any clay related
>problems or not from the lack of a deairing chamber. Can you throw directly
>from the pug or must it be wedged some more? Any thoughts on brands?
Jonathan,
I apprenticed with a woman who had a bottom of the line Bluebird. When we
pugged clay and recycled scrap we just "burped" the hopper frequently by
pulling it down and popping it open. She threw directly from the pug and
only wedged enough to shape the pug into a ball/cone. I'd settle for one !!!!
Julie Moore
Dirty Bird Pottery
Manassas, VA
kenmoore@pop.erols.com
.....still looking for a used pugmill....I'll pay shipping
Barbara A Bihler on wed 14 aug 96
On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, Jonathan Kaplan wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Anyone out there use a non-deairing pug mill and has any clay related
> problems or not from the lack of a deairing chamber. Can you throw directly
> from the pug or must it be wedged some more? Any thoughts on brands?>
>
I use a non-deairing pugmill. It is a 1972 Bluebird "Studio Pug". I
believe it was manufactured before the now popular deairing models ever
hit the market. I do not use it for mixing or reclaiming clay. I use it
strictly for "wedging"....a three inch diameter pug yeilds a pound of
clay for every two inches in length. I throw directly from the pug with
no problems to the fired piece. For pieces over 6 lb (or 12 in. pug
length) I simply fold the pug length it half and slap it together I use
my clay relatively soft.
I've replaced the hopper hinge pin three times in the past 20 something
years, and the hopper cover plate and handle assembly was remade for me
by the Bluebird Co. once.
Barb Bihler
bb@indiana.edu
680 W. Sylvan Lane
Bloomington,IN 47404
June Perry on wed 14 aug 96
Dear Jonathon:
I remember Robin Hopper in the seventies mentioning that he ran his clay
twice through the old Walker Pug mill (non-de-airing) and throwing. I have a
Walker and have never done it. Maybe I will give it a go when I get past this
next glaze firing.
I'd also be interested in hearing of anyone else who has done this. I'm also
curious if anyone out there knows of anyone being able to convert a
non-de-airing pug mill into a de-airing one. I suspect that because of the
nice huge hopper on the Walker that may not be possible.
Regards,
June
EMail: juneperry@wave.net
Nils Lou on wed 14 aug 96
An added note to reinforce the consideration of using a non de-airing
pugmill is that the pugged clay seems to age more radidly. This is my
experiece with porcelain which is beneficiated by not being de-aired.
Nils Lou
Ken L Russell on thu 15 aug 96
problems or not from the lack of a deairing chamber. Can you throw
directly
from the pug or must it be wedged some more?>
I just threw a sample bag of clay from a local supplier who does not use
a deairating pug. YUCK! Lots of tiny bubbles (where's Don Ho when you
need him), it was rather wet and sort of "crumbled" while centering. I
buy moist clay in 5000# batches and expect it to be ready to throw out of the ba
Ken Russell
The Arlington Pottery
Claycuzian@aol.com on thu 15 aug 96
I have used both types of pugmills. I find that the main difference is in the
density of the clay produced. The clay from a non-deairing pugmill is frothy,
that is not as tightly held together. It is harder to pull handles and the
clay tends to split apart when you expand it into round forms on the wheel.
Coils of clay may split if you bend them into tight curves.The more you wedge
the non-deaired clay the better it becomes. It is not impossible to use, it
just takes getting use to. I do like deaired clay better for generall studio
use.
Make good pots. David Cuzick
June Perry on sat 17 aug 96
Dear David:
While searching out some other information in the Harry Davis book I came
across some of his information on airing versus de-airing pugmills.
According to him the difficulties that some people have with non-deaired clay
comes as a result of their body being short and the reason that it works
better with the de-airing is that the de-airing gives it just that bit more
of an edge of compressing or bringing the clay particles into closer contact
with each other. So in a borderline body the de-airing definitely would be an
advantage.
So you may want to try a more plastic body or add a bit more plasticizer to
your present body and see if that would work better for you. Davis only used
a non-deairing pug mill for the 16 years he operated his pottery at Crewenna
in New Zealand and according to him "The almost legendary strength of the
ware we produced during that period is evidence enough to justify that
(previously mentioned)statement."
After reading all of this information I am definitely going to start using my
old Walker non-deairing pug mill for wedging in the future.
Regards,
June
EMail:juneperry@wave.net
Tracy Dotson on sat 17 aug 96
I have spent alot of money trying to convert a homemade pugmill to one that
deairs the clay. Unknown to me at the time, you need to pull the air out of
the clay just ___after___ the clay goes through a screen or some other metal
filter that will change the clay into spaggetti. I gave up on the idea. Now
I mix my slop in an old bread dough mixer adding dry materials until the clay
is at a throwing consistancy. Then I pug the reclaimed clay with deaired
clay from my local clay dealer (half and half). It takes two runs through
the pug mill to get a good blend and the clay is what I call "lively". I do
need to cut and slap the clay about 10 times and hand spiral wedge before I
use it. Good luck.
Tracy Dotson thepottery@aol.com
Vince Pitelka on sat 17 aug 96
At 11:20 AM 8/17/96 -0400, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Dear David:
>
>While searching out some other information in the Harry Davis book I came
>across some of his information on airing versus de-airing pugmills.
>I am definitely going to start using my
>old Walker non-deairing pug mill for wedging in the future.
>June
June -
I have known people who throw clay straight from the Walker with consistent
success. With that right-angle bend at the extrusion-opening the Walker
compresses the clay considerably more than most non-de-airing pugmills.
Regarding Harry Davis's information, 20 years ago, when I was preparing to
go full-time in my former studio in Blue Lake, California, I got a set of
Harry Davis de-airing pugmill plans from Hank Murrow in Eugene, and although
I modified the design slightly, it is close to his original design. 20
years later the pugmill is still going strong, and the clay is wonderful to
throw. If building or buying a straight-extrusion pugmill (versus the
Walker) with the intention of avoiding wedging (for throwing), one should
make sure that the direction of rotation in the pugmill is correct to set up
the clay for throwing. Looking down the barrel from the extrusion end, the
direction of rotation should be counter-clockwise. I am a firm believer in
wheel-wedging, but with the correct spiral configuration already present in
the pugged extrusions, little wheel-wedging is necessary.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@Dekalb.Net
Phone - home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801
Appalachian Center for Crafts, Smithville TN 37166
June Perry on sun 18 aug 96
Thanks for the information Vince.
If I remember correctly, Harry Davis has plans for a deairing pugmill and
also a non-deairing in his book "The Potters Alternative" - great book!
Warm regards,
June
Kenneth A. Moore on sun 18 aug 96
I got a set of
>Harry Davis de-airing pugmill plans from Hank Murrow in Eugene, and although
>I modified the design slightly, it is close to his original design. 20
>years later the pugmill is still going strong, and the clay is wonderful to
>throw.
Vince,
Would you have a copy of these plans you could send me? I'd like to show
them to my husband to see if this would be a possibility for me.
Thanks,
Julie Moore
Dirty Bird Pottery
Manassas, VA
kenmoore@pop.erols.com
.....still looking for a used pugmill....I'll pay shipping
Bonnema on thu 22 aug 96
My wife and I mixed our own stoneware and porcelain and ran the clays
through two Bluebird non-deairing pugmills for quite a few years. About 3
years ago we started having our clay bodies mixed by a supplier. He
delivered them beautifully mixed and deaired. We don't like the way the
deaired clay handles as well as our old clay so we run the deaired clay
through our non-deairing pugmills and make it better for us. Maybe it's
just what a potter has gotten used to.
Garret Bonnema in Bethel Maine, where the mosquitoes are so bad for the
second time that a trip to pick lettuce is like giving blood.
--
Garret Bonnema
bonnema@bdc.bethel.me.us
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