Jim Sandford on tue 7 oct 97
Hi,
I'm building a wood fire kiln in Maryland following the Peg
Udall (small) variation of the Ruggles & Rankin Rock
Creek kiln (see Studio Potter December 1993 & June 1994).
Its about half done. Right now I'm stuck on what to use for
fire grates. The plans call for Monel stainless tubing, which
I gather is a kind of alloy--Nickel or something. My calls to
metal shops have been frustrating. I did find one place
in NJ that sells this kind of thing, but then I got stuck after
one or two questions--tube wall thickness and a bunch of
other specifications I had no idea how to answer. I never
got to the issue of price, which I suspect will be prohibitive.
So can anybody help, either with improving my understanding
of high melting point alloys and how to acquire them, or
perhaps with some other suggestion entirely for what to use?
Also, I'm thinking ahead to what I will do for doors to the
stoking chamber--something about 4.5 x 5 inches, durable,
and easy to open and close. Any suggestions would be
appreciated.
Thanks, Jim.
Nils Lou on wed 8 oct 97
Jim- I am using 3/4" re-bar for fire grates. They are coated with ITC213
and hold up quite well. For you small doors I suggest a dense castable
such as Mizzou. Just line your hole with plastic sheeting (thin), back it
up and cast the door in place with a re-bar handle of appropriate size.NL
On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Jim Sandford wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hi,
> I'm building a wood fire kiln in Maryland following the Peg
> Udall (small) variation of the Ruggles & Rankin Rock
> Creek kiln (see Studio Potter December 1993 & June 1994).
> Its about half done. Right now I'm stuck on what to use for
> fire grates. The plans call for Monel stainless tubing, which
> I gather is a kind of alloy--Nickel or something. My calls to
> metal shops have been frustrating. I did find one place
> in NJ that sells this kind of thing, but then I got stuck after
> one or two questions--tube wall thickness and a bunch of
> other specifications I had no idea how to answer. I never
> got to the issue of price, which I suspect will be prohibitive.
>
> So can anybody help, either with improving my understanding
> of high melting point alloys and how to acquire them, or
> perhaps with some other suggestion entirely for what to use?
>
> Also, I'm thinking ahead to what I will do for doors to the
> stoking chamber--something about 4.5 x 5 inches, durable,
> and easy to open and close. Any suggestions would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks, Jim.
>
Ric Swenson on thu 9 oct 97
I Agree with Nils about using the 3/4 " re-bar for grates in wood fired
kiln....they are inexpensive to make.... (a good place to learn...or
perfect your arc welding techniques potters ! ) You can re-weld them or
re-make them several times for the cost of some hi-tech metal that is
pretty and "will take the heat" 3/4" standard metal rebar for concrete
forms...available at local brick/concrete / masonry vendor...will take the
heat for quite a few firings.
Although I have not gotten into the ITC -213 thing with grates...it
probably extends the life of rebar in the fire box by multiples of 10 !
Great stuff. Does add to the cost , however.
I recommend checking the condition of the grates BEFORE each firing...and
have an extra available...just in case. I know from experience that you
can replace the grate...mid-fire....but not a "recommended technique", as
such. ( You know...Scrambling to find the raku tongs......gloving
up...face shield...messy, hot and un-necessary. )
sorry...no experience with "door" for the fire box...We throw a piece of
fiberfrax or a diamond plate metal plate over the firebox entrance when
finished firing...but ours is a different design, obviously, for stoking.
HTH
Ric
At 11:10 AM -0400 10/8/97, Nils Lou wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Jim- I am using 3/4" re-bar for fire grates. They are coated with ITC213
>and hold up quite well. For you small doors I suggest a dense castable
>such as Mizzou. Just line your hole with plastic sheeting (thin), back it
>up and cast the door in place with a re-bar handle of appropriate size.NL
>
>On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Jim Sandford wrote:
>
>> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> Hi,
>> I'm building a wood fire kiln in Maryland following the Peg
>> Udall (small) variation of the Ruggles & Rankin Rock
>> Creek kiln (see Studio Potter December 1993 & June 1994).
>> Its about half done. Right now I'm stuck on what to use for
>> fire grates. The plans call for Monel stainless tubing, which
>> I gather is a kind of alloy--Nickel or something. My calls to
>> metal shops have been frustrating. I did find one place
>> in NJ that sells this kind of thing, but then I got stuck after
>> one or two questions--tube wall thickness and a bunch of
>> other specifications I had no idea how to answer. I never
>> got to the issue of price, which I suspect will be prohibitive.
>>
>> So can anybody help, either with improving my understanding
>> of high melting point alloys and how to acquire them, or
>> perhaps with some other suggestion entirely for what to use?
>>
>> Also, I'm thinking ahead to what I will do for doors to the
>> stoking chamber--something about 4.5 x 5 inches, durable,
>> and easy to open and close. Any suggestions would be
>> appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks, Jim.
>>
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
rswenson@bennington.edu
"Standard Disclaimers Apply...Opinions are my own."
Ric Swenson, Bennington College,
Route 67 - A, Bennington, Vermont 05201 - 6001
( 802 ) 442 - 5401 vox 4621 fax 4582
direct fax ( 802 ) 442 - 6164
_________________________
stevemills on fri 10 oct 97
At the International Potters Festival in '95 Jo Finch built a version of
the Olsen fast fire using long hollow kiln props (posts) as fire bars,
as I recall they were 2" in diameter. He says they hold up brilliantly,
far better than any metal bars will. He also arranged it so any breakage
could be replaced from the side without having to rebuild the whole
ruddy kiln!!!
Steve
In message , Jim Sandford writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hi,
>I'm building a wood fire kiln in Maryland following the Peg
>Udall (small) variation of the Ruggles & Rankin Rock
>Creek kiln (see Studio Potter December 1993 & June 1994).
>Its about half done. Right now I'm stuck on what to use for
>fire grates. The plans call for Monel stainless tubing, which
>I gather is a kind of alloy--Nickel or something. My calls to
>metal shops have been frustrating. I did find one place
>in NJ that sells this kind of thing, but then I got stuck after
>one or two questions--tube wall thickness and a bunch of
>other specifications I had no idea how to answer. I never
>got to the issue of price, which I suspect will be prohibitive.
>
>So can anybody help, either with improving my understanding
>of high melting point alloys and how to acquire them, or
>perhaps with some other suggestion entirely for what to use?
>
>Also, I'm thinking ahead to what I will do for doors to the
>stoking chamber--something about 4.5 x 5 inches, durable,
>and easy to open and close. Any suggestions would be
>appreciated.
>
>Thanks, Jim.
>
--
Steve Mills
@Bath Potters Supplies
Dorset Close
Bath
BA2 3RF
UK
Tel:(44) (0)1225 337046
Fax:(44) (0)1225 462712
David Hendley on fri 10 oct 97
My knowledgeable junk yard owner tells me that
re-bar does not take heat very well
and there are other kinds of steel that are much better.
He reccommends "sucker rod", which is used in oil drilling operations.
It comes in 20' lengths, threaded male on one end,
female on the other.
It's very common in Texas.
The drillers throw it out as soon as it gets noticeable wear.
I built my first grates out of 3/4" sucker rod.
I built my second set out of 1" and they lasted twice as long.
I haven't tried ITC coating, but, wow, that sounds like the way to go
no matter what metal you use.
David Hendley
still burnin' in Texas
At 08:08 AM 10/9/97 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>I Agree with Nils about using the 3/4 " re-bar for grates in wood fired
>kiln....they are inexpensive to make.... (a good place to learn...or
>perfect your arc welding techniques potters ! ) You can re-weld them or
>re-make them several times for the cost of some hi-tech metal that is
>pretty and "will take the heat" 3/4" standard metal rebar for concrete
>forms...available at local brick/concrete / masonry vendor...will take the
>heat for quite a few firings.
>
>Although I have not gotten into the ITC -213 thing with grates...it
>probably extends the life of rebar in the fire box by multiples of 10 !
>Great stuff. Does add to the cost , however.
>
>I recommend checking the condition of the grates BEFORE each firing...and
>have an extra available...just in case. I know from experience that you
>can replace the grate...mid-fire....but not a "recommended technique", as
>such. ( You know...Scrambling to find the raku tongs......gloving
>up...face shield...messy, hot and un-necessary. )
>
>
>sorry...no experience with "door" for the fire box...We throw a piece of
>fiberfrax or a diamond plate metal plate over the firebox entrance when
>finished firing...but ours is a different design, obviously, for stoking.
>
>
>HTH
>
>Ric
>
>
>
>
>At 11:10 AM -0400 10/8/97, Nils Lou wrote:
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>Jim- I am using 3/4" re-bar for fire grates. They are coated with ITC213
>>and hold up quite well. For you small doors I suggest a dense castable
>>such as Mizzou. Just line your hole with plastic sheeting (thin), back it
>>up and cast the door in place with a re-bar handle of appropriate size.NL
>>
>>On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Jim Sandford wrote:
>>
>>> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>> Hi,
>>> I'm building a wood fire kiln in Maryland following the Peg
>>> Udall (small) variation of the Ruggles & Rankin Rock
>>> Creek kiln (see Studio Potter December 1993 & June 1994).
>>> Its about half done. Right now I'm stuck on what to use for
>>> fire grates. The plans call for Monel stainless tubing, which
>>> I gather is a kind of alloy--Nickel or something. My calls to
>>> metal shops have been frustrating. I did find one place
>>> in NJ that sells this kind of thing, but then I got stuck after
>>> one or two questions--tube wall thickness and a bunch of
>>> other specifications I had no idea how to answer. I never
>>> got to the issue of price, which I suspect will be prohibitive.
>>>
>>> So can anybody help, either with improving my understanding
>>> of high melting point alloys and how to acquire them, or
>>> perhaps with some other suggestion entirely for what to use?
>>>
>>> Also, I'm thinking ahead to what I will do for doors to the
>>> stoking chamber--something about 4.5 x 5 inches, durable,
>>> and easy to open and close. Any suggestions would be
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Jim.
>>>
>
>
>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>rswenson@bennington.edu
>
>"Standard Disclaimers Apply...Opinions are my own."
>
>Ric Swenson, Bennington College,
>Route 67 - A, Bennington, Vermont 05201 - 6001
>( 802 ) 442 - 5401 vox 4621 fax 4582
>direct fax ( 802 ) 442 - 6164
>
>_________________________
>
>
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
See David Hendley's Pottery Page at
http://www.sosis.com/hendley/david/
Joseph Herbert on mon 13 oct 97
Sucker rods are the rods that connect the pump jack at the ground surface
(that bobbing up and down thing) with the pump at the bottom of the hole.
They are solid rods made of good steel that come in 20 or 30 foot lengths.
The threads are "upset" so the threaded parts are nearly as large as the
body diameter and the threaded part is in a "knot" on the end of the rod.
this is a way of circumventing the weaken effect of the reduced diameter of
threads. Since the sucker rod's thread container sticks out, it rubs against
the inside of the well casing and that thins the part with the threads in it.
When the crew who periodically services the well thinks this wear presents a
risk of failure, they replace the rod which becomes junk. In oil field
country, you can find fences, railings, truck bumpers, and other decorative
items made from combinations of drill pipe, well casing, well tubing, and
sucker rod cut up and welded together.
For fire gratings, I think that cast iron is the preferred material, probably
because of intial cost. Since gratings are sacrificed materials, the cheaper
they are , the better. In the world of studio kilns, the option of purpose
made cast iron grating parts is out of the question. Since the material in
the grate dies by oxidation, the thicker the cross section of the material,
the longer it will last. Some alloy steels have higher hot strength than
others but the real characteristic of interest is cost. So, what ever
material you can get cheap and fabricate easily is probably the best. If you
have the luxury of browsing thorugh scrap yards, you might want to look into
steel alloy identification techniques. Otherwise, the material of chance is
probably the material of choice.
Joseph Herbert
JJHerb@aol.com
Malone & Dean McRaine on mon 13 oct 97
Fred Olsen suggests transaxle half-shafts for his fastfire kiln. These
worked great (har har) for me. I bought the 20 or so I needed and had the
junkyard cut them to length for me for a very reasonable price about $2
each if I remember right.
Dean
Marin Ceramic Supply on tue 14 oct 97
At 09:51 AM 10/13/97 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Sucker rods are the rods that connect the pump jack at the ground surface
>(that bobbing up and down thing) with the pump at the bottom of the hole.
> They are solid rods made of good steel that come in 20 or 30 foot lengths.
> The threads are "upset" so the threaded parts are nearly as large as the
>body diameter and the threaded part is in a "knot" on the end of the rod.
> this is a way of circumventing the weaken effect of the reduced diameter of
>threads. Since the sucker rod's thread container sticks out, it rubs against
>the inside of the well casing and that thins the part with the threads in it.
> When the crew who periodically services the well thinks this wear presents a
>risk of failure, they replace the rod which becomes junk. In oil field
>country, you can find fences, railings, truck bumpers, and other decorative
>items made from combinations of drill pipe, well casing, well tubing, and
>sucker rod cut up and welded together.
>
>For fire gratings, I think that cast iron is the preferred material, probably
>because of intial cost. Since gratings are sacrificed materials, the cheaper
>they are , the better. In the world of studio kilns, the option of purpose
>made cast iron grating parts is out of the question. Since the material in
>the grate dies by oxidation, the thicker the cross section of the material,
>the longer it will last. Some alloy steels have higher hot strength than
>others but the real characteristic of interest is cost. So, what ever
>material you can get cheap and fabricate easily is probably the best. If you
>have the luxury of browsing thorugh scrap yards, you might want to look into
>steel alloy identification techniques. Otherwise, the material of chance is
>probably the material of choice.
>
>Joseph Herbert
>JJHerb@aol.com
>
>
-----------
I have personally seen two fire boxes built, and no metal was used. They
were both built with used firebricks and two large coils of Lincoln 60 fire
clay. Personally I think it is crazy to use metal because the melting
temperature is so much lower than clay, and because of cost.
Erik Owens
Marin Ceramic Supply
ceramic@slip.net
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