ARTMOLIN@ACS.EKU.EDU on wed 8 oct 97
From: IN%"abiquiu@hotmail.com" "e.d. Bricknell" 8-OCT-1997 10:46:11.51
To: IN%"artmolin@ACS.EKU.EDU"
CC:
Subj: question
Return-path:
Received: from hotmail.com (F56.hotmail.com)
by ACS.EKU.EDU (PMDF V5.1-7 #19283) with SMTP id
<01IOK7XPRERK00590H@ACS.EKU.EDU> for artmolin; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:46:10 EDT
Received: (qmail 23525 invoked by uid 0); Wed, 08 Oct 1997 14:47:35 +0000
Received: from 207.48.50.103 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed,
08 Oct 1997 07:47:34 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 07:47:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: "e.d. Bricknell"
Subject: question
To: artmolin@ACS.EKU.EDU
Message-id: <19971008144735.23524.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
X-Originating-IP: [207.48.50.103]
We have the clay list to read from, but cannot send out for some school
reason. I can't seem to subscribe to Clayart through my Hotmail
address.
But I would like to submit a question to the list. Can I do that by
sending
it to you?
One of my teachers was listed as a curator for an exhibition here in
Texas called "Within the Borders". There were three other curators
listed too. When the list of the people in the show was posted, all of
the "curators" were listed as being in the show. I have never heard
of this, and thought that a curator or a juror was supposed to be
judging
the work of others.
There seems to be a lot of competition to be in exhibits during NCECA
here next year, but this did not seem right to some of the other
students
and me. But we are pretty new to exhibits and things. So the question
is, do jurors and curators usually put themselves in the exhibit they
are choosing? We would like to hear opinions about this.
e.d.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Karen Gringhuis on thu 9 oct 97
IMHO you need to make a distinction between a juror & curator. Shows
often have a curator or geust curator who is asked to curate around a
theme or idea. I don't think it's unusual for them to include their
own work among the other artists whom they INVITE to be in the show.
This is different from formal jurying of slides from a lot of
applicants. In such a jurying process, I don't think jurors
usually include themselves. You need to be clear about what
type of show & selection process you're talking about because
they are quite different. Karen Gringhuis
Indianapolis Art Center on fri 10 oct 97
>do jurors and curators usually put themselves in the exhibit they
>are choosing? We would like to hear opinions about this.
Occasionally one or two pieces from JURORS are included in a juried
competitive exhibition, just so the visitors can see from what perspective
the exhibition has been juried. These may be placed in a separate section
of the exhibition. I have not heard of curators putting their own work in
the show--generally curators stand apart from the final product. Then
again, professional curators are rarely artists themselves. Sometimes
artists will "curate" (organize) exhibitions that are meant to travel to a
number of locations, and they might include their own work as well as that
of selected other artists on an invitational basis, not juried or competitive.
Julia Moore
Indianapolis Art Center
Louis Katz on fri 10 oct 97
=3C/NOFILL=3E
------------------
Dear e.d.
The people organizing this show, are doing doing it without any pay or
compensation that I know of.
IMHO: That they should try and get some benefit out of it is only
fair. It probably would have been less work for them to organize a
show called Four Texas Clayworkers and leave the rest of us out of
thier workload.
I am not without a conflict of interest in this matter as I have
recieved word that my work was accepted. But lots of jurored shows
have invitational work. It will be educational to see the jurors
choices next to thier work.
Louis
lkatz=40falcon.tamucc.edu
NOT underwater, but probably can't drive home yet. It is still
raining.
Nueces County Texas
=3E One of my teachers was listed as a curator for an exhibition here in
=3E Texas called =22Within the Borders=22. There were three other curators
=3E listed too. When the list of the people in the show was posted, all
of
=3E the =22curators=22 were listed as being in the show. I have never heard
=3E of this, and thought that a curator or a juror was supposed to be
=3E judging
=3E the work of others.
=3E
=3E There seems to be a lot of competition to be in exhibits during
NCECA
=3E here next year, but this did not seem right to some of the other
=3E students
=3E and me. But we are pretty new to exhibits and things. So the
question
=3E is, do jurors and curators usually put themselves in the exhibit
they
=3E are choosing? We would like to hear opinions about this.
=3E
"Rafael Molina-Rodriguez (Rafael Molina-Rodriguez)" on fri 10 oct 97
Karen :
>This is different from formal jurying of slides from a lot of applicants. In
>such a jurying process, I don't think jurors usually include themselves.
>You need to be clear about what type of show & selection process
>you're talking about because they are quite different. Karen Gringhuis
This show was juried from slides. There was, however, no entry fee. I
did not enter for a variety of reasons which I will detail in a future post.
BTW, this is the fourth show in the last five years that I'm aware of
where organizers/jurors include themselves. It is a disturbing trend.
Rafael
>>> Karen Gringhuis 10/09/97 09:28am
>>>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
IMHO you need to make a distinction between a juror & curator. Shows
often have a curator or geust curator who is asked to curate around a
theme or idea. I don't think it's unusual for them to include their
own work among the other artists whom they INVITE to be in the show.
This is different from formal jurying of slides from a lot of
applicants. In such a jurying process, I don't think jurors
usually include themselves. You need to be clear about what
type of show & selection process you're talking about because
they are quite different. Karen Gringhuis
Jennifer Wallace on sat 11 oct 97
I've seen curators put their work in shows that they have put together before
(usually an invitational showing).
However, not for a juried competition or show that is the result of a "call
for entry."
I believe that curating yourself into a juried show is not an ethical
decision.
If you wish to participate in an exhibition, you should not be part of
choosing a curator / juror (let alone curate the show).
I work on the board of directors for a non-profit organization that solicites
jurors for awards and exhibitions. We avoid this sort of conflict of
interest all the time. By not letting artist members participate in the
juror selection process.
"Rafael Molina-Rodriguez (Rafael Molina-Rodriguez)" on sat 11 oct 97
Julia :
>Occasionally one or two pieces from JURORS are included in a juried
>competitive exhibition, just so the visitors can see from what
>perspective the exhibition has been juried. These may be placed in a
>separate section of the exhibition.
From what I understand the jurors will in the same exhibition space with
as many pieces as those who were juried in.
Rafael
>>> Indianapolis Art Center 10/10/97 10:42am
>>>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>do jurors and curators usually put themselves in the exhibit they
>are choosing? We would like to hear opinions about this.
Occasionally one or two pieces from JURORS are included in a juried
competitive exhibition, just so the visitors can see from what perspective
the exhibition has been juried. These may be placed in a separate
section
of the exhibition. I have not heard of curators putting their own work in
the show--generally curators stand apart from the final product. Then
again, professional curators are rarely artists themselves. Sometimes
artists will "curate" (organize) exhibitions that are meant to travel to a
number of locations, and they might include their own work as well as
that
of selected other artists on an invitational basis, not juried or competitive.
Julia Moore
Indianapolis Art Center
"Rafael Molina-Rodriguez (Rafael Molina-Rodriguez)" on sat 11 oct 97
Louis :
>The people organizing this show, are doing doing it without any pay or
>compensation that I know of.
As far as I know this is true. They are volunteers. You are making them
out to be victims.
>IMHO: That they should try and get some benefit out of it is only
>fair. It probably would have been less work for them to organize a
>show called Four Texas Clayworkers and leave the rest of us out of
>thier workload.
This idea "Four Texas Clayworkers" would have been the ethical thing to
do. They set themselves up for a conflict interest. If your a juror you
should RECUSE YOURSELF FROM CONSIDERATION.
>I am not without a conflict of interest in this matter as I have
>recieved word that my work was accepted.
I find it curious that in neither this post nor your reply to Mel's "self-jury"
post that you failed to mention that your wife Gail Busch is also in the
show. Why? Isn't defending the show and not acknowledging your
wife's participation also a conflict of interest
>But lots of jurored shows have invitational work.
Will you list some. I'm not aware of many. Organizer and jurors of
exhibitions should follow the example of Dannon Rhudy and Doug Gray,
organizers of Ceramics USA, and recuse themselves from consideration.
>It will be educational to see the jurors choices next to thier work.
What will be educational will be whether the curators/exhibitors
acknowledge their role in "Within Borders".
Rafael
Louis
>>> Louis Katz 10/10/97 10:45am >>>
Dannon Rhudy on sun 12 oct 97
Well, rats, Rafael. Just when I was beginning to think it might
be OK to enter Ceramics USA myself...
In fact, Doug and I have discussed this issue at considerable
length. We concluded that it would be best not to enter, even
though the juror(s) would have no way to know our work from anyone
else's, and our odds of being accepted would be no better than
anyone else's.
We decided that A)if we got in, it might be assumed it was because
we were the coordinators; B)if we did not get in and the juror
realized it at some point, might be awkward; C)if one of us was
accepted and the other not, the one left out would probably be
VERY grumpy...
You raised some interesting points regarding what can/cannot be
discussed on the list, what is/is not politically correct, etc.
Perhaps it is a matter of the ATTITUDE with which we discuss
things, how belligerent or otherwise we may be, or may appear to
be, that makes things acceptable or not acceptable. I expect
you are about to find out.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
...... Organizer and jurors of
exhibitions should follow the example of Dannon Rhudy and Doug
Gray,
organizers of Ceramics USA, and recuse themselves from
consideration....
...........>
| |
|
