Dan Taylor on sun 15 sep 96
In answer to...
"A good friend died this past week and I want to make a jar for the ashes. I
have never done this--Does anyone know how big this needs to be? Or anything I
need to keep in mind.? I've never seen a jar for ashes. Thanks. J. melchior"
A: I have made a couple of these for family members in the past, and have
had a request from a local funeral home to supply them, which I turned down
after considering. But in the course of consideration came upon these
factors which may apply to your situation. There are specific legal volumes
required for cremation urns. These requirements may vary from place to
place so check with one of your local funeral parlors. There may also be a
shape/size requirement if the ashes are to be interred in a crypt. Other
than that, the only physical requirement I know of is an appropriate lid,
capable of being sealed properly. Hope this helps.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Dan Taylor dataylor@mlc.awinc.com
Taylor Clayworks Ph: (403)527-1002
1340 - 10th Ave. NE Fax: (403)527-1032
Medicine Hat, AB T1A 6G3 "Live your dreams"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Roger Bourland on mon 16 sep 96
I'm a retired clergyman and would add that most funeral urns do not handle
ALL the ashes. Usually the mortuary disposes of the surplus in its own way,
but I have had the extra ashes brought to me to dispose of in my own way!
Don't ask.
Roger Bourland
Levine Meg Jessica on tue 17 sep 96
A few years ago I visited the Everson Museum in Syracuse, when doing a
research project on Adelaide Alsop Robineau. It was interesting
that her urn is contained in the exhibit of her work. She passed away
before she could finish it and her
assistant, Carlton Atherton, finished it for her. They call it a "Cinerary
Urn." In 1929, a year after she died her husband donated to urn to the
Everson. For me, it was very moving to view the rest of her work with that
urn in the room. Meg
Tom Beyer on wed 16 jul 97
Last fall there was an interesting discussion about funeral urns
and the requirements for making them. I have a friend who is
interested in doing so and I offered to give her the info from that
thread. Now, of course, I have discovered that I have deleted those
messages and the clayart archive only goes back to Jan.
Did anybody save that thread or would someone be kind enough to
give me a quick synopsis of what is required in a funeral urn? Are
there size and/or form requirements? Are there state regulations
that one must follow and if so where do you get the regulations?
Go ahead and email me directly if it is info that the list has already
seen.
TIA,
Tom, in Ann Arbor preparing for the 4 days of mania that is art fair.
tbeyer@mediastation.com
joanna on thu 17 jul 97
Tom, I know I saved a whole bunch of messages re funeral urns, but I'll
be darned if I can find them now (printed and in a stack of papers who
knows where? on some storage disk, deleted in error?) At any rate, I was
disappointed to learn that they are no longer at my fingertips.
So when responding to Tom's request, I hope someone will post to Clayart
too, as there is at least one other who would like the info!
TIA from me too!
joanna
--
Joanna deFelice/David Payne
prepress@cyberis.net
Elca Branman on thu 17 jul 97
I recently did 2 urns,and went to a local undertaking establishment to
get a sense of size..big variety of stuff and useful to estimate
volume.Call your local digger...Elca
Elca Branman
Branman Potters ,Stone Ridge, N.Y.
in the Hudson Valley
elcab1@juno.com
Robert Acton on thu 17 jul 97
I don't know about legal requirements but I had a friend make some
beauties but people didn't want to buy them because they were afraid of
them breaking. I suspect that would be an issue to overcome in any
marketing of urns.
Bob
Leona Stonebridge Arthen on fri 18 jul 97
I remember there being something about the sizes of funeral urns in
Hopper's book _Functional Pottery_. I don't know about government
requirements; they seem to vary by state in the US.
Leona
At 4:54 PM 7/16/97, Tom Beyer wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Last fall there was an interesting discussion about funeral urns
>and the requirements for making them. I have a friend who is
>interested in doing so and I offered to give her the info from that
>thread. Now, of course, I have discovered that I have deleted those
>messages and the clayart archive only goes back to Jan.
---
Leona Stonebridge Arthen
leona@javanet.com
Worthington, Massachusetts/USA
Lisa or Ginny on fri 18 jul 97
Robert Acton wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> I don't know about legal requirements but I had a friend make some
> beauties but people didn't want to buy them because they were afraid of
> them breaking. I suspect that would be an issue to overcome in any
> marketing of urns.
>
> Bob
A funeral urn that will hold the entire remains of an adult human should
be about the size of a shoe box. In the state of North Carolina, you can
even use Raku for interment purposes; the container doesn't have to be
waterproof. It can be sealed with superglue, or not at all.
I went to the funeral home to find out this information. The cheapest
(ie: least expensive) interment container they had was a square box the
size of a square kleenex box, and it was $400! I firmly believe that we
can do _much_ better than THAT on price!
--
Lisa Skeen
Living Tree Pottery & Soaps
http://www.uncg.edu/~lpskeen
YesIAmRU?
Craig Martell on sat 19 jul 97
Hi Again:
Yes, there is good info on the size requirement for funeral urns in Robin
Hopper's book Functional Pottery.
I make funeral urns, but not for marketing. They are footed cylinder shaped
covered jars. The dimensions are: 8 inches in height, 6.5 inches in
diameter and the lid opening is about 4.25 inches. When you pick up a
persons ashes at the crematorium, they will place the ashes in the jar for
you and the ashes are enclosed in a plastic bag to ensure security. I don't
think breakage is a big deal, as most folks are REAL careful with vessels
containing human remains, but it doesn't hurt to take that into
consideration and design the pot accordingly.
To explain the above marketing comment, I meant that I don't take money for
urns. Yes, I know that I could go broke doing that but I just don't want
money for making a pot that to me has such an eternal kind of task to
perform. I usually just make urns for people who know me and want a more
personal touch to the piece. I do what I can to accomodate their wishes in
the aesthetic sense and of all the pieces that I make, these get all the
"heart" that I can possibly muster. I don't mean to present myself as some
kind of great humanitarian. I guess that my approach to these pieces stems
from a deep respect for the finality of death. So it goes.
Before I get flamed, I should tell you that I have no problem whatever with
potters who DO take money for making urns. After all, I can't think that
other potters will be as foolhardy as I am. However, the last urn that
I made was my all time masterpiece. Not because of what it is, technically
or aesthetically but because of who is in it and the circumstances
surrounding it's making. If I never make another pot, I'm satisfied. I
know this is a lot more about funeral urns than what was requested but I
thought I'd throw in a little personal stuff. Thanks for letting me do that
and I hope it's OK with you guys. There is a lot more to this story, but
it's probably best that I keep it for myself.
Regards, Craig Martell-Oregon
muddpie mama on sat 19 jul 97
Robin Hopper's book "Functional Pottery" has information on "Funerary
Urns" or "Cinerary Urns" on page 182 (pic's on 20 & 21). The dimensions
he gives are of the box the ashes fit into. They are 9" x 6"x 3" and
amount to about 6 pounds.
Happy Potting! I would be interested in seeing some that someone has
made as I myself have had someone as me to make some for a vetenary
office (for your pets remains).
JuliA
Jacquelyn Lumsden on sat 19 jul 97
In late 1995, i made a funeral urn for my father's ashes, having seen the
ones available for sale at the funeral home which handled his arrangements.
There was no question of specifications except that it had to fit a niche
in a columbarium. It also has to have a sealable lid. ( The funeral home
would glue it in place once filled.) I made one in the shape of a
traditional jinger jar with a drop in cap lid. I wrote into the leather
hard clay, on the bottom, his name, dates , and a personal message. I was
told that the remains weigh about 4 or 5 pounds, and that there are about
4-6 cups of ashes to store. I think that I used about 3 or 4 pounds of clay
for the urn plus some for the lid, and was told when I took it is that it
was fine for size. It was satisfying to be able to have a personal
contribution in a sad time.
Jacquelyn Lumsden
Waterloo, Ont.
Canada
Barbara Long on sun 20 jul 97
I usually just make urns for people who know me and want a more
> personal touch to the piece. I do what I can to accomodate their wishes in
> the aesthetic sense and of all the pieces that I make, these get all the
> "heart" that I can possibly muster.
>
> Before I get flamed, I should tell you that I have no problem whatever with
> potters who DO take money for making urns. After all, I can't think that
> other potters will be as foolhardy as I am.
Dear Craig
I really hope that you do not get flamed for your viewpoint,but if you
do-at least know that you are not alone. A good friend of mine asked me
to make a funeral urn for her mother's ashes. As it turned out, it
really was one of my best works to date.It was also cylindrical in shape
about 8" high,6" at it's widest point, and 3 1/2" at the cap.I took no
money for the urn as it was a labor of love (which also might explain
the very positive outcome aesthetically speaking). I have now been asked
by 2 other friends if I would do urns for them as well and I consider it
a priviledge.I don't see me getting into the funeral urn business but
don't knock anyone else who might want to.
Barbara in Lyme,Ct.
potluck@snet.net
Carole Rishel on wed 23 jul 97
Here are all the posts I copied on this subject. Hope you find what you
need.
Carole Rishel
Bastrop, TX
CaroleER@aol.com
>A good friend died this past week and I want to make a jar for the ashes. I
>have never done this--Does anyone know how big this needs to be? Or
anything I
> need to keep in mind.? I've never seen a jar for ashes. Thanks. J.
melchior
******************************
My husband says his father's ashes were in a box somewhat larger than
a good sized shoe box if that is any help.
Maridel
**********************************************************************
I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. I hope the following can help.
I have experience with this. I use 6 lbs and leave a 4.5 inch opening/lid.
Make sure to have a good gallery as the funeral home will glue the lid on.
If you are like me, you should say a prayer as you create the urn....I find
making one urn takes more out of me than any dozen pots (mentally).
sam
************************************************************************
i studied ceramics for a while with a potter named thomas orr, now dept.
head at the oregon school of arts and crafts in portland, oregon. he was
then making a number of funerary urns which were approximately 8 inches
high by about 5-6 inches in diameter. you might call a few funeral homes
that do cremations and ask how much volume the ashes take up. they may also
have urns you can look at which will also give you a sense of size. hope
this helps.
prepress@cyberhighway.net
************************************************************************
Melchior asks about the size a funeral jar should be.
First, let me say that there was a great deal of communication about this
almost two yrs. ago, and even people's approach to sealing a jar and
privately burying it.
When I received a commission for one fifteen yrs. ago, I phoned a funeral
parlor to obtain this very information. The answer was: no larger than a
half gallon ice cream container. A good visual statement we in the U.S. at
least can understand.
Bacia Edelman medelman@facstaff.wisc.edu
**********************************************************************
Hi J:
For my cat the ashes came home in a pint chinese takeout container. and
I once was kicking around a box in the back seat of a friend's car and
she said be careful that's my grandma! the box must have not been
bigger than 6" x 6" x 8". I'd say a gallon sized container would do it.
Eleanora
Paradise Hill
Bellows Falls, VT 05101 eden@maple.sover.net
**********************************************************************
The urn for an adult human should be as big as a shoebox. I went to the
local funeral home and checked them out. In the state of NC there is no
law about how urns are to be made or even sealed. They can even be made
of Raku!
On another note, and I hope this is not too crass: Urns at the funeral
home are outrageously priced. The cheapest one they had was a plain box
about 6" square. It was almost $400. I _KNOW_ I can make an urn and
decorate it nicely if necessary, for much less than that! I just can't
figure out how to go about marketing such a thing. Also, I think it
would be good to provide a lower-cost alternative for people who cannot
afford the funeral home prices. Any ideas?
*********************************************************************
About a half gallon size should do it. Generally, all the ashes from
cremation
are not put in the funerary urn. I don't know how to be delicate about it:
they sift out the large lumps, put the finer particles in the urn.
Dannon
************************************************************************
I have made some. I think they should hold between 1 and a 1/2 to
2 gallons. Think of the size of gallon milk cartons for reference.
You could also see some (probably bronze) at your local mortuary.
Marcia Selsor
mjbmls@imt.net
**********************************************************************
I had the unsavory job of filling the urns at the animal hospitol i worked
at once we would take the ashes and the bones that were like fired to 1700
degrees f. and crushed the bones to smallpieces with a hammer and put them
in the urns supplyed by a local potter the lid fit inside and glued quite
easily. we had some about the size of a large coffee mug for a cat or a
chihouihoui (you know a rat dog) up to about a gallon for a big dog 100 lbs
or more. some times the urn was too small so wed pack it full and trash the
rest. all the private creamations got an urn, the others were thrown in the
trash.
Erik
ps my first commition after leaving the animal hospitol and becomming a
potter was .. you guessed it "animal urns" i made forty of them and got about
$300.00 for the order not bad for 1979.
E
************************************************************************
A: I have made a couple of these for family members in the past, and have
had a request from a local funeral home to supply them, which I turned down
after considering. But in the course of consideration came upon these
factors which may apply to your situation. There are specific legal volumes
required for cremation urns. These requirements may vary from place to
place so check with one of your local funeral parlors. There may also be a
shape/size requirement if the ashes are to be interred in a crypt. Other
than that, the only physical requirement I know of is an appropriate lid,
capable of being sealed properly. Hope this helps.
Dan Taylor dataylor@mlc.awinc.com
Taylor Clayworks Ph: (403)527-1002
1340 - 10th Ave. NE Fax: (403)527-1032
Medicine Hat, AB T1A 6G3 "Live your dreams"
***********************************************************************
Hello,
I come from Denmark, where creamation is most peoples choice(small
country). The "jars" come in several sizes and materials, depending
on what you want to do with the ashes ie. bury the jar or keep it
out of the ground. The jars we used for my parents were iron as they
rust away in app. 7-10 years and the graves can be annulled by choice,
the size of jars were app.12-14" tall and about 8" wide. I had made a
jar for my mothers ashes but by using high fired clay ( or any ceramics)
you must keep and upkeep the grave site for at least 25 years. We chose to
be able to renew the site every 7 years as we are not getting any younger
and live out side of Denmark. The grave yards in Denmark are some of the
most beautiful ones in the world.
Hope this helps you out!
Inge G Balch
Baker University
KS
*********************************************************************
J. Melchior,
I don't know how standardized the containers are, but in my experience
human ashes come back from the crematorium in cans 14cm diameter X 15cm high.
A pot the size of a cookie jar will hold their contents. For further ideas,
you could visit a cemetery or mausoleum office that sells crematory urns, and
get an idea of what's being made commercially. Also, if the jar is to rest in
a niche in a mausoleum, check the niche's inside dimensions before finalizing
the design. Hope this helps.
Don Goodrich in Zion, Illinois
************************************************************************
This message is being forwarded for Pat Thompson, reply directly to
PTHOMPSO@uhmtravel.tim.hawaii.edu
I informed her of the thread on this subject more than a year ago...
Aloha,
Brian
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:29:41 -1000
From: Patricia Thompson
To: Brian Leu
Subject: Re: funeral jars (fwd)
THANKS, Brian!!! It's up to you, but could you post the following:
My mother died in late July and I went to the funeral home with my father
to arrange the cremation, etc. We asked for the least expensive
container. It was free, but it was made out of the same black plastic
that video tapes come in when you rent them - same look, feel, thickness
-the container was about the same height (8 inches high) maybe five
inches wide and five inches in depth. So, it resembled a five inch by
five inch square; 8 inches high. I suspected the funeral director would
have thought we'd be appalled and instantly buy "UP". We shocked him: We
decided to go with the freebie because we were not going to keep it in
the home; the container was going to be interned in the ground.
When my father went to the funeral home the night before to pick the
ashes up, however, he broke down. He bought a "nicer" pink marble
rectangular shaped box, to which he still refuses to tell us how much it
was, but it no doubt ranged in the $4-600 [hopefully!] figures.
I couldn't fault him, I mean, particuarly since the container
was placed in the center of the church alter and had we gone with the
freebie, the little black "tupperware" container would have embarrased the
living you know what out of us!!!
I was surprised at how few ashes there were, frankly; and and my mom
weighed about 180 lbs at death. Hate to tell you this, but I've heard that
you really don't know who's ashes you've got. It's a bad funeral practice,
but I've heard some pretty sad/gross stories of families not getting the
right ashes. I gotta ask, however, who's gonna know the difference anyway?
Anyway, I have about 6 - 8 oz of my mom's ashes and I'm planning on
putting the ashes in the clay and making a vase. Kinda making my mom the
urn, if you will, instead of putting the ashes into the urn. I think
I'll even put some ashes into the glaze.
The human ash color is not anything like boneash; it is a steel gray. (I
suspect this is because you are not just burning bone, but muscle, fat and
apparently the wood container the body is put in??)
Anyone have any tips on this? I hope I haven't offended anyone.
*********************************************************************
Since the question about urns had been asked, I would like to add to the
question. I was asked to make an urn for my best friend's 16yr old dog.
I have since made the urn, guessing at the size needed and it waits to
glazed. My question is what type of glue or sealant should be used? My
urn looks like a big ginger jar with a cup type lid.
Thank you,
Peggy Underwood in Salem, VA
************************************************************************
A few years ago I visited the Everson Museum in Syracuse, when doing a
research project on Adelaide Alsop Robineau. It was interesting
that her urn is contained in the exhibit of her work. She passed away
before she could finish it and her
assistant, Carlton Atherton, finished it for her. They call it a "Cinerary
Urn." In 1929, a year after she died her husband donated to urn to the
Everson. For me, it was very moving to view the rest of her work with that
urn in the room. Meg
*********************************************************************
Hi All...found this subject very interesting...my experience with funeral
jars/urns is....
One day a couple of months ago 4 young gentlemen came to my door and asked
if they could see some of my primitive fired work. They explained that
they intended to use a piece of pottery for their Dad who had passed away
with cancer a few days before. They told me their Dad was a collector of
pottery and he had admired my work. He got sick before he was able to pick
a piece for himself. I was blown away and very moved by these 4 brothers.
They ranged in age of 18 to 25. They spent over an hour or so picking up
the work, looking at the titles of the pieces, sitting on the floor in a
circle with the pieces they were choosing from and speaking in soft tones
about their Dad and which one he would like. When the choice was made they
asked if I would take visa...I had to say no and offered to give them the
piece for their Dad. I packed it up, handed it to them and they left.
About an hour later they returned with a whole lot of cash in their hands
and insisted that I take it. Their Mom had told them this is what 'Dad'
would have paid for this piece if he were here. It was much more than what
was originally on the piece. It was very hard to take but they were so
insistant I could not turn them down. They said it was for their Dad and he
would have insisted. I was very proud in the end to take the pay for the
piece and was so proud of those boys. Several weeks later I recieved a
beautiful letter from the boys and their Mother thanking me for making the
death of their father and husband a bit easier.
It was all very moving and I will remember them for a long time.
As Always in Clay and always with proud and moving moments. Peggy
Peggy Heer / Heer Pottery E-Mail p4337@connect.ab.ca
***********************************************************************
Just a note to anyone interested in subject of human ash glazes...did you
catch the post by Daianne Mammone (dmammone@carroll.com) about the article
in a recent issue of Studio Potter where a potter used his friend's ashes
in glaze for his urn. I read the article, too, and I believe he indicated
the human ash did not seem to completely melt but retained a certain milky
whiteness. The ash would be variable as it would contain not only human
remains' ash/chemicals but also the residue from clothes and the container
whatever it was made of. Still, it is an interesting way to immortalize a
potter or potters' acquaintance.
Maridel
**********************************************************************
I'm a retired clergyman and would add that most funeral urns do not handle
ALL the ashes. Usually the mortuary disposes of the surplus in its own way,
but I have had the extra ashes brought to me to dispose of in my own way!
Don't ask.
Roger Bourland
************************************************************************
Re Patricia Thompson's plan to include her mother's ashes in a pot:
An Epitaph
On a Woman Who Sold Earthenware
(from a churchyard in Chester, England)
Beneath this stone lies Catherine Gray,
Changed from a busy life to lifeless clay.
By earth and clay she got her pelf,
And now she's turned to earth herself.
Ye weep in grief & let me advise,
Abate your grief and dry your eyes,
For what avails a flood of tears?
Who knows but in a run of years,
In some tall pitcher or broad pan,
She in her shop may be again.
anonymous
On my computer screen this morn
Patricia Thompson's name was born.
Her mother has departed life
Leaving husband minus wife.
To some it may be rather grimly
reading that a mortuary chimley
had been her mother's route to heaven,
but Patricia's story lacks no leaven.
By wedging ashes into clay,
Pat throws her mom another day.
Oh ye who tarry by your plates,
Look well - ye eat from others' fates.
Jack Troy
***********************************************************************
I'm adding more data that should be of interest to anyone pondering " Retort
Vessels". I've been involved in creating these clay vessels for a good number
of years, both for family, and friends, and private commissions.
(CANA) The Cremation Association of North America puts out a brochure
ironically titled, 'Cremation is not the end..." . The funeral industry uses
this booklet to sell urns, niches, and other related items.
The typical urn has the capacity of 175-to 300-cubic inches, large enough for
most adult remains.
In ancient times, urns of different cultures or for different social classes
were made of, among other things, terra-cotta, stone, crystalline rock,
alabaster, bronze, gold, or stoneware-porcelain.
The simple horizontal-rectangular used today is often made out of metal,
porcelain, or wood, and is approx. 6 5/8-inches high, 8 1/4-inches wide, and
nearly 4-inches deep.
A columbarium in Hartsdale, New York, has a set of priceless Ming vases and a
Wedgwood urn behind their glass front, and San Francisco's Neptune Society
Columbarium has cremains inurned in, among other things, a milk pitcher, a
tobacco humidor, an ice bucket and a sailing trophy.
San Francisco's Ghia Gallery, a death boutique, sells wearable urn jewelry so
relatives or loved-ones can wear their ashes.
Hope that some of this is helpful, Jeff Kirk, Glen Echo Pottery
*********************************************************************
>Dear lisa and others interested in the funerary urn discussion,
the marketing of these containers is currently wrapped up by Funeral homes
because they monopolise the fueral rite. It is part of our society's
repression and denial of death. If we are to bring death into a more
integrated place in the scheme of things, perhaps we could market urns via
the classifieds. Attitude change usually comes slowly, but such gestures
may help.
Suvira McDonald
Ceramics Department
Southern Cross University
Lismore, N.S.W. Australia
Email: smcdon12@scu.edu.au
***********************************************************************
After my friend's recent death I created a small commemorative sculpture
and partially glazed it with ashes from the crematorium. The ash
substantially included that of the coffin, from a local wood, camphor
laurel. I added 50% neph syenite and fired it in the anagama for 5 days so
i cant say what the glaze would be in the gas kiln. However I would like to
advocate these practices for remembering our loved ones.
Suvira McDonald
Ceramics Department
Southern Cross University
Lismore, N.S.W. Australia
Email: smcdon12@scu.edu.au
***********************************************************************
Suvira: Check out the changing traditions in funerals and memorial services
for people who have died of AIDS. Particularly among gay people, the memorial
services have become elaborate, necessary and deeply meaningful celebrations
of life. I'm a journalist as well as an amateur potter. I did a piece earlier
this year about the changes here in the US. No doubt someting similar is
happening in Australia. I'm happy to send you a copy if you're interested.
The AIDS epidemic is a horrible thing, but the celebrations that have come
out of it have been quite remarkable.
Hollis Engley
Gannett News Service
1000 Wilson Blvd.
Arlington, Va. 22229 USA
or HOLLISPOT@AOL.COM
************************************************************************
Lynn Barnwell on sun 29 may 05
We (my daughter & I) have done one funeral urn to date. It came as a
complete surprise that someone would want one made by us. The couple who
commissioned the urn had lost both mother & father several years apart and
the wishes of the parents was to be joined together in eternity as they had
been married over 50 years.
The children were supposed to mix the ashes and spread them into a plot at
the national cemetery. They couldn't bring themselves to just toss out the
ashes on the ground and thought that putting them into a clay vessel and
burying it would help them carry out the parents wishes and help them cope
with their loss. We were honored to be part of their healing.
Since it was our first urn and not having any idea where to start we talked
with a local funeral director who helped us with size. One of his strangest
requests was for cremains to be sealed into a 3lb coffee can as the deceased
was a huge coffee drinker. He said it was all they could do to get the
ashes into the can and seal it. Since we were putting the cremains of two
people together we made the urn taller and about the same diameter as a
coffee can. The children did not want the urn glazed so we sprayed with an
iron oxide wash to make it the same color as the red clay earth found in
North Mississippi. The lid was ornamented with two interlocking wedding
bands and sealed with epoxy after the cremains were placed inside. The
children said it was a perfect final resting place for Mom & Dad. As per
their request there were no markings at all on the urn. We did not even
sign the vessel. It was buried with full military honors at our local
national cemetery.
Other than our dentist (who has been discussing cremation urns with me) no
one saw the urn but family. I did take some pictures for reference. It
really makes you think about eternity and your final resting place when you
have to spend so much time trying to make a respectful vessel to honor loved
ones.
My next one will be for my dentist as he wants to see where he will reside
for eternity before he goes. And then for my beloved dog "Brownie" who is
getting old.
Thanks for listening
Lynn Barnwell
Hinkle Creek Pottery
Corinth, MS
j e motzkin on mon 30 may 05
I have been away and came back to this discussion of urns. My "spirit keeper" jars have been used as urns for over 20 years. They were not designed to be such, but found this function along the way. I have sold them retail by word of mouth and wholesale to funeral homes and to a company that distributes to the funeral industry. I sell them for the same wholesale price (1/2 of retail). I am afraid to think about the cost by the time they get to the customer, after two middlemen.
I have also shown in the "Ashes to Art" exhibition in San Francisco produced by a group called Funeria.
I find this little corner of my business to be quite an honor, as others have said. I have had the privelege of helping people through hard times, whether they are grieving a parent, friend or pet.
My saggar fired vessels, with their smoky surfaces, have an ethereal quality that seems appropriate.
The size for the remains of an adult is 220 cu.in. or about the volume of a 5 # bag of sugar. Companion size is double. smaller sizes are used for keepsake and pets.
The funeral industry is very closed and conservative in my experience, though many individuals in the field are looking to provide alternatives to the traditional urns.
Sweet sunshine here at last.
jude
Judith Motzkin
motzkin/studio
7 Tufts Street
Cambridge, MA 02139
617-547-5513
jmotzkin@yahoo.com
http://www.motzkin.com
http://spiritkeeper-urns.com
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Susan Park on wed 1 jun 05
What about being able to withstand freezing temperatures? Can these be
sealed and kept outside in a garden?
s
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of j e motzkin
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 4:59 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: funeral urns
I have been away and came back to this discussion of urns. My "spirit
keeper" jars have been used as urns for over 20 years. They were not
designed to be such, but found this function along the way. I have sold
them retail by word of mouth and wholesale to funeral homes and to a
company that distributes to the funeral industry. I sell them for the
same wholesale price (1/2 of retail). I am afraid to think about the
cost by the time they get to the customer, after two middlemen.
I have also shown in the "Ashes to Art" exhibition in San Francisco
produced by a group called Funeria.
I find this little corner of my business to be quite an honor, as others
have said. I have had the privelege of helping people through hard
times, whether they are grieving a parent, friend or pet.
My saggar fired vessels, with their smoky surfaces, have an ethereal
quality that seems appropriate.
The size for the remains of an adult is 220 cu.in. or about the volume
of a 5 # bag of sugar. Companion size is double. smaller sizes are used
for keepsake and pets.
The funeral industry is very closed and conservative in my experience,
though many individuals in the field are looking to provide alternatives
to the traditional urns.
Sweet sunshine here at last.
jude
Judith Motzkin
motzkin/studio
7 Tufts Street
Cambridge, MA 02139
617-547-5513
jmotzkin@yahoo.com
http://www.motzkin.com
http://spiritkeeper-urns.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Lee Love on thu 2 jun 05
Susan Park wrote:
>What about being able to withstand freezing temperatures? Can these be
>sealed and kept outside in a garden?
>
>
Unless your urns are meant to be "biodegradable", I think they should be
able to pass the above test. Even in a vault, they will experience broad
ranges of temperatures and moisture.
--
李 Lee Love 大
愛 鱗
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
"With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
Susan Park on thu 2 jun 05
As I have gone through my mother's paperwork, I found something about
"being placed in a pretty vase and put into someone's garden". It will
need to be outdoors in Kentucky, I think, and I have no idea what
temperatures are like there but I imagine that there are extremes and I
have heard or read about freezing being difficult with some clay bodies.
How can I be certain?
Susan near Seattle
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Lee Love
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 12:06 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: funeral urns
Susan Park wrote:
>What about being able to withstand freezing temperatures? Can these be
>sealed and kept outside in a garden?
>
>
Unless your urns are meant to be "biodegradable", I think they should be
able to pass the above test. Even in a vault, they will experience broad
ranges of temperatures and moisture.
--
$BM{ (B Lee Love $BBg (B
$B0&!!!! (B $B!!!! (B $BNZ (B
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
"With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
________________________________________________________________________
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Brian O'Neill on thu 2 jun 05
Susan,
I can't speak to any "scientific" proofs that would guarantee a clay
body impervious to moisture and temperature over time. Some here may be
able to. I would think a true stoneware or porcelain would hold up,
but... no guarantee. I've had pieces out in the garden up here in
Bellingham, many fired at the same time/same temp, and placed near one
another. Most are fine, the bottoms of a couple are spalled and
cracked.
It may be that Mom needs to be brought inside when the weather takes a
turn.
Best of luck,
Brian
On Jun 2, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Susan Park wrote:
> As I have gone through my mother's paperwork, I found something about
> "being placed in a pretty vase and put into someone's garden". It will
> need to be outdoors in Kentucky, I think, and I have no idea what
> temperatures are like there but I imagine that there are extremes and I
> have heard or read about freezing being difficult with some clay
> bodies.
> How can I be certain?
>
> Susan near Seattle
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Lee Love
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 12:06 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: funeral urns
>
> Susan Park wrote:
>
>> What about being able to withstand freezing temperatures? Can these be
>> sealed and kept outside in a garden?
>>
>>
> Unless your urns are meant to be "biodegradable", I think they should
> be
> able to pass the above test. Even in a vault, they will experience
> broad
> ranges of temperatures and moisture.
>
> --
> $BM{ (B Lee Love $BBg (B
> $B0&!!!! (B $B!!!! (B $BNZ (B
> in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
> http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
> http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
>
> "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
> difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
> make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
> ______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
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>
Lee Love on fri 3 jun 05
Susan Park wrote:
>have heard or read about freezing being difficult with some clay bodies.
>How can I be certain?
>
>
You can test your fired clay in the freezer, multiple freezing and heating.
You want to use a clay body that is vitreous after it is fired. For
example, a friend and studio mate was making large outdoor fountain
sculpture. She liked Continental Clay's terracotta. Didn't glaze it, but
colored with layered oxides. Looked like stone.
Folks at Continental recommend that she fire it to cone 1 to be vitreous
and withstand weathering out of doors.
--
$BM{ (B Lee Love $BBg (B
$B0&!!!! (B $B!!!! (B $BNZ (B
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
"With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
Anne Webb on thu 13 jul 06
Hi..
Sorry to bother you all (gawd do i sound like i live in the south now or
what?! that's frightening. maybe that would sound better if i add "eh?" to
the end .. ),
... but I'm looking for someone who I hope is still on the list.
Last year there was a fellow (who's name i totally cannot remember) who was
making (or had made) funeral urns and I had messaged him off list.. and was
going to continue cuz i had a bunch more questions for him. But I got caught
up with something, spaced out, and never got back to him. Now his posts are
lost way back amongst the 8 million clayart posts we've had since.
ANYHOW.. if you are the fellow (and I *hope* you remember), and if you are
still on the list, can you please message me off list. I'd really like to
find you again.
try emailing me offlist at: anne@webbpottery.com
Thanks
Anne
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
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claybair on thu 13 jul 06
Anne,
It took me 4 seconds to do a Google search
I typed in Clayart Urns and got
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Clayart+Urns
Search through those postings I'm sure you will find the person.
Gayle Bair - taking a very short break... and back to the studio
Bainbridge Island, WA
Tucson, AZ
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Webb
Hi..
Sorry to bother you all (gawd do i sound like i live in the south now or
what?! that's frightening. maybe that would sound better if i add "eh?" to
the end .. ),
... but I'm looking for someone who I hope is still on the list.
Last year there was a fellow (who's name i totally cannot remember) who was
making (or had made) funeral urns and I had messaged him off list.. and was
going to continue cuz i had a bunch more questions for him. But I got caught
up with something, spaced out, and never got back to him. Now his posts are
lost way back amongst the 8 million clayart posts we've had since.
ANYHOW.. if you are the fellow (and I *hope* you remember), and if you are
still on the list, can you please message me off list. I'd really like to
find you again.
try emailing me offlist at: anne@webbpottery.com
Thanks
Anne
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date: 7/13/2006
Jeff Jeff on fri 24 sep 10
In 2002 I cast a deathmask. In 2005 I incorporated it into a funeral urn.
Casting the deathmask itself was interesting but sitting at the Funeral
Directors tradeshow, also in 2005, surrounded by several deathmasks, was ev=
en
more interesting.
How we deal with death, even today, is very much surrounded in secrecy and
mystery. There's really no need.
Jeff Longtin
Minneapolis
In a message dated 9/24/2010 10:00:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
monkeymind88@COMCAST.NET writes:
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=3D119986
monkeymind88@COMCAST.NET on fri 24 sep 10
For those of you interested in funeral urns:
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=3D119986
--
Jeanette Harris in Poulsbo WA
http://www.jeanetteharrisblog.blogspot.com
http://fiberneedlethread.blogspot.com/
http://www.washingtonpotters.org/WPA_Gallery.htm
Deborah Thuman on thu 30 jun 11
Personally, I want an extremely cheap funeral. I want to be cremated
and then planted under a cactus. Skip the box, urn, whatever.
Now... a lovely jar made in my memory for Jim to put on the counter
and use, that would be very nice.
Deb Thuman
http://debthumansblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=3D5888059
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Deb-Thumans-Art-Page/167529715986
WJ Seidl on thu 30 jun 11
Ahhh, a woman after my own heart!
Deb, I did the whole thing for free. Here's how:
First, instructions are for them to pull out anything they can use for
someone else (organ donor)
Then, I'm "donating" my body to science for use at a teaching university.
They always need corpses on which to practice surgical techniques. The
university has agreed
(standard practice) to cremate the remains and send them to my partner,
who will gather good friends
and scatter me in the garden (where I can maybe, actually do some
good). In lieu of a service, we're having a party.
Total cost to my partner? Nothing except the price of the food and drink
for the party...maybe a couple hundred bucks.
Someone asked if I'm worried about my body being used for "shopping cart
races or the like" at the college?
Do I care? I won't be there. They worry about their body being
"respected". I don't.
Even humans throw away flowers that have gone by....right in the trash
can. Never a second thought.
Does that mean the flower was not "respected"? Oh, please!
Best,
Wayne Seidl
On 6/30/2011 8:33 AM, Deborah Thuman wrote:
> Personally, I want an extremely cheap funeral. I want to be cremated
> and then planted under a cactus. Skip the box, urn, whatever.
>
>
> Now... a lovely jar made in my memory for Jim to put on the counter
> and use, that would be very nice.
>
> Deb Thuman
> http://debthumansblog.blogspot.com/
> http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=3D5888059
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Deb-Thumans-Art-Page/167529715986
>
David Woof on fri 1 jul 11
Hi Deb=3D2C and "suchman"=3D2C
your thoughts on this seem to echo the arrangement=3D20
I made some 20 years ago with a friend to take several of my last pots in t=
=3D
he studio
and glaze them with my ashes as a significant part of the glaze.
Now since we also have the place on the coast in Oregon=3D3B I see myself s=
ai=3D
ling westward=3D20
under a full moon in a blazing fire as dear ones raise glasses of organic O=
=3D
regon's
finest with home grown cherrys=3D2C strawberries and cheese(s).=3D20
Today I wish for my loved ones to move on=3D3B not hang on=3D2C so won't sa=
ddle=3D
them with my=3D20
ashes on or in a pot. I wish to be nowhere and everywhere=3D2C much as I ha=
ve=3D
lived and=3D20
I never take pictures when I travel=3D3B not wishing to taint the conscious=
ne=3D
ss of now=3D20
with distracting concerns of a future I have not yet lived. =3D20
I do like your wish to be planted under a cactus. To continue to provide no=
=3D
urishment!!!!
Woof=3D20
_______________________________________________________________________
3a. Re: Funeral Urns
Posted by: "Suchman ceramics" suchmanart@GMAIL.COM=3D20
Date: Fri Jul 1=3D2C 2011 9:52 am ((PDT))
=3D20
One of the things we did for my son was to have a flower pot thrown and
dried but not fired=3D2C My mom planted a flower in it along with some of h=
is
ashes and set it on a jetty where I grew up. As the tide rose the sea slowl=
=3D
y
dissolved and consumed the arrangement.
=3D20
On Thu=3D2C Jun 30=3D2C 2011 at 5:33 AM=3D2C Deborah Thuman et.com=3D
>wrote:
=3D20
> Personally=3D2C I want an extremely cheap funeral. I want to be cremated
> and then planted under a cactus. Skip the box=3D2C urn=3D2C whatever.
>
>
> Now... a lovely jar made in my memory for Jim to put on the counter
> and use=3D2C that would be very nice.
>
> Deb Thuman
=3D
Suchman ceramics on fri 1 jul 11
One of the things we did for my son was to have a flower pot thrown and
dried but not fired, My mom planted a flower in it along with some of his
ashes and set it on a jetty where I grew up. As the tide rose the sea slowl=
y
dissolved and consumed the arrangement.
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:33 AM, Deborah Thuman wrote=
:
> Personally, I want an extremely cheap funeral. I want to be cremated
> and then planted under a cactus. Skip the box, urn, whatever.
>
>
> Now... a lovely jar made in my memory for Jim to put on the counter
> and use, that would be very nice.
>
> Deb Thuman
> http://debthumansblog.**blogspot.com/>
> http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?**user_id=3D5888059.php?user_id=3D5888059>
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/**Deb-Thumans-Art-Page/**167529715986//www.facebook.com/pages/Deb-Thumans-Art-Page/167529715986>
>
--
-e-in-o'side-
pagan by nature
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/42169721@N04/
James Freeman on sat 2 jul 11
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 1:33 AM, David Woof wrote:
Today I wish for my loved ones to move on; not hang on, so won't saddle the=
m
with my
ashes on or in a pot. I wish to be nowhere and everywhere
There is a company that packs your ashes into fireworks, then sends you int=
o
the atmosphere to entertain your friends and neighbors. That would be kind
of cool.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
Mike Gordon on tue 15 nov 11
I was looking for somebody that made them in my files...no luck. I
think it was Nils Lou?? Anybody have a web site for him? I'm looking
for prices & pictures. Thanks Mike Gordon
Michael Wendt on wed 16 nov 11
We make urns
http://www.wendtpottery.com/urn.htm
Regards,
Michael Wendt
you asked:
I was looking for somebody that made them in my files...no
luck. I
think it was Nils Lou?? Anybody have a web site for him? I'm
looking
for prices & pictures. Thanks Mike Gordon
Lee on wed 16 nov 11
You can see a couple of mine here (sold already) at the NCC holiday sale:
http://store.northernclaycenter.org/Ceramics/Gallery+Artists+A+-+L/Lee+Love=
=3D
.html
You want a cubic inch per pound of live weight. One cup is 14.6456
cubic inches. 200 lbs is about 14 cups.
--=3D20
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
J Motzkin on thu 17 nov 11
I make a line of funeral urns. What info are you seeking, Mike?
Individual urns standard is 220 cu". Rule of thumb is 1 cu inch per pound
of body weight.
Other sizes in the industry are small (pets), companion (for co-mingling),
and keepsake. Heck, I have a family size one or two in the studio, but no
one has requested that...yet.
Mine sell at $90-$900 retail.
...judy
http://www.spiritkeeper-urns.com
jmotzkin
@motzkin.com
Lee on thu 17 nov 11
The funeral homes gouge people at their most vulnerable point: the
death of a loved one. My neighbor, who asked Jean what I was up to,
and Jean said, "making urns", said that her recently deceased
husband's urn from the funeral home cost over $1,000.00 It is as
bad as the jacked up prices for caskets.
Mine are priced for humans between $85.00 and $150.00 They are
not priced higher than other covered jars of the same size. I also
set 20% of the sale price on each urn I sell aside as a fund to
support free urns for people who can't afford them.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Mike Gordon on thu 17 nov 11
Thanks to everyone that sent me info on the urns. All were beautiful to
see, Thanks Mike Gordon
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