David Hendley on tue 15 jul 97
I, too, am puzzled by all the negative comments about gerstly borate. I've
been using it for decades without problems. Some interesting stories:
In 1984 I sold my house, closed my studio, and moved to the country to
build a house. I moved all my 5 gal. buckets of glaze. They sat in a
storage building for 5 years (I'm a slow builder!). When I finally had my
new studio going I glazed my first batch of pots with the old glazes. NO
PROBLEMS, and most used G. B. in the recipe.
Last year I was having a problem with blistering in a particular glaze. In
the search for a solution I re-calculated the glaze with frit replacing the
G. B. To my surprise, this WORSENED the problem. (I now think my problem
was caused by excess reduction, and I've cleared it up, and switched BACK
to G. B.)
Three years ago I enjoyed a fun and educational 1/2 day visit to Boron,
California. They have a museum, located at the corner of Boron St. and 20
Mule Team Ave., that will tell you all you would want to know about boron.
I bought a souvenir sample of Gerstley Borate - it's a pretty crysral, and
learned that the material is named after Mr. (forgot his first name)
Gerstley, a former president of the Borax Company.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
David Hendley on wed 16 jul 97
In what can only be described as an amazing coincidence, my friend John
Williams at Trinity Ceramic Supply today sent me a booklet on the history
of borax! the same day as my story about visiting the borax museum!
Interesting quotes:
"...borax was orginally imported to the United States from Tibet and
Italy. A physician is credited with first dicovering borax in Calif. while
testing waters for medicinal properties. However it wasn't until
"cottonball" - a crude ore compound of boron, oxygen, sodium and calcium -
was found in large quantites that the domestic industry sprang to life."
This sounds like Gerstley Borate, or its predicessor, Colemanite to me!
"Cottonball lay in shimmering masses on the ancient desert floor and could
be harvested with a shovel."
"Two men played key roles in bringing the borates from the desert floor to
industries and households around the world. One of the first was F. M.
"Borax" Smith. Another important pioneer was was William T. Coleman..."
Could this be the namesake of Colemanite? Coleman is credited with
developing the famous "20 Mule Team" to move mineral out of the desert.
Today, more than half of the world's borax comes from the Mojave.
Still a Gerstley Borate fan,
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
Bill Williams on tue 23 feb 99
I think this question went around a while back about Rutile, but I don't
remember if gerstley borate was mentioned at any time. The gerstley borate =
I
have been buying for the past 2 years is a light tan color. The other day I
went to the same supplier and bought more. This batch is white. Is this =
okay?
Connie
Mert & Holly Kilpatrick on tue 4 jan 00
I am interested in comments/reactions that people on the list have to the
news that I read in Clay Times, that Gerstley Borate mining has been
discontinued by US Borax, and in a couple years, once the stockpiles are
used up, will no longer be available. This would seem to me to be pretty
big news, seeing how many glazes use GB. What do others think?
Holly, in PA
hal mc whinnie on tue 4 jan 00
it will be necessary to substitute, frit 3124 or frit 3134 and
combinations of frit and neph syn
Lorraine Pierce on tue 4 jan 00
Morning Holly...a friend who subscribes to Clay Times just called me with the
news; I'm in shock...months and months of testing ^6 glazes for a full
palette...many with gerstley borate as a material...and now back to square
one. I've a full load of bisque waiting for me to mix the glazes, now I've
settled on them. I should have spent the time learning a glaze software
program.Damn,damn,damn. Lori in New Port Richey
Mert & Holly Kilpatrick wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I am interested in comments/reactions that people on the list have to the
> news that I read in Clay Times, that Gerstley Borate mining has been
> discontinued by US Borax, and in a couple years, once the stockpiles are
> used up, will no longer be available. This would seem to me to be pretty
> big news, seeing how many glazes use GB. What do others think?
>
> Holly, in PA
NakedClay@aol.com on tue 4 jan 00
Hi Holly!
Other than transporting busloads of disgruntled potters to Borax, CA, to
picket the mine and factory, I think we'll be using a frit, or some other
substitute. This might be a blessing in disguise--the latest batch of GB I
used didn't live up to its reputation!
Milton NakedClay@AOL.COM
Ray Aldridge on wed 5 jan 00
At 03:57 PM 1/4/00 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Morning Holly...a friend who subscribes to Clay Times just called me with the
>news; I'm in shock...months and months of testing ^6 glazes for a full
>palette...many with gerstley borate as a material...and now back to square
>one. I've a full load of bisque waiting for me to mix the glazes, now I've
>settled on them. I should have spent the time learning a glaze software
>program.Damn,damn,damn.
Or, if this turns out to be true, you could just order enough gb to last
you for a few years. Unless you're running a small factory, a couple
hundred pounds ought to last you a while.
Ray
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
Paul Lewing on wed 5 jan 00
Hi, Holly.
What do I think? I think I just went out today and bought a 50 pound
bag of Gerstley Borate- probably enough to last me 5 years. We'll see
what they've come up with by then. But I still wish I'd bought about
300 pounds of colemanite when I got out of school. I hope they find a
viable source of that stuff again.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Jean Cochran on wed 5 jan 00
Dear Mert & Holly:
Eeeeekkkkk! Jesum Pete! My glazes use gerstley and I've worked through
problems with it for years. Am NOT interested in changing, have had problems
using frits to substitute. The frits turn the glaze to hard rock. Anyway,
it's bad news to me.
Thank you for the alert.
Yours for fine crafts,
Jean Wadsworth Cochran
Fox Hollow Pottery
Mert & Holly Kilpatrick wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I am interested in comments/reactions that people on the list have to the
> news that I read in Clay Times, that Gerstley Borate mining has been
> discontinued by US Borax, and in a couple years, once the stockpiles are
> used up, will no longer be available. This would seem to me to be pretty
> big news, seeing how many glazes use GB. What do others think?
>
> Holly, in PA
David Hewitt on wed 5 jan 00
While I am sure that it will present some problems in the short term for
some potters, I am equally sure that in the long run it will be a good
thing for better (more predictable) glaze recipes by the use of frits
instead of Gerstley Borate.
It will also make the 'transport' of recipes, which might have included
GB but which will in future call for a frit, a much easier process. For
someone in the UK like myself, where GB has rarely been used, it will
mean that a lot more of the recipes on Clayart will be of more direct
interest.
David
In message , Mert & Holly Kilpatrick writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I am interested in comments/reactions that people on the list have to the
>news that I read in Clay Times, that Gerstley Borate mining has been
>discontinued by US Borax, and in a couple years, once the stockpiles are
>used up, will no longer be available. This would seem to me to be pretty
>big news, seeing how many glazes use GB. What do others think?
>
>Holly, in PA
>
--
David Hewitt
David Hewitt Pottery ,
7 Fairfield Road, Caerleon, Newport,
South Wales, NP18 3DQ, UK. Tel:- +44 (0) 1633 420647
FAX:- +44 (0) 870 1617274
Own Web site http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk
IMC Web site http://digitalfire.com/education/people/hewitt.htm
Frank Gaydos on thu 6 jan 00
Paul,
I thought Colemanite was a real dog to work with in the past and that is why
GB took it's place. When I left school I just missed using colemanite as it
was out of favor then, around '75-'76.
Don't believe I ever saw the stuff...
Why do you like it so much?
Frank Gaydos
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Lewing"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: Gerstley Borate
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hi, Holly.
> What do I think? I think I just went out today and bought a 50 pound
> bag of Gerstley Borate- probably enough to last me 5 years. We'll see
> what they've come up with by then. But I still wish I'd bought about
> 300 pounds of colemanite when I got out of school. I hope they find a
> viable source of that stuff again.
> Paul Lewing, Seattle
>
David Hendley on thu 6 jan 00
This is no catastrophe, Lori. You are not back at square one.
It's a very simple matter to substitute a frit for Gerstley
borate. In fact, some frits are so similar that a direct one-for-one
substitution might be close enough for your glazes.
Ferro 3134 comes to mind, or ask your ceramic materials
supplier for the closest substitute.
Frits are not much more expensive than G. B., and have the
advantage of being consistent through the years
Of course, a glaze calculation program would give you a
more precise substitution equivalent. It's not that difficult
to learn to use one; you can be working on that until the
Gerstly borate supply runs out, which should not be anytime
too soon.
I don't think Gerstley borate was ever very important to
U. S. Borax Co. They would mine it for a few days and have a
stockpile that would last for years.
--
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com/
| ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
| Morning Holly...a friend who subscribes to Clay Times just called me with
the
| news; I'm in shock...months and months of testing ^6 glazes for a full
| palette...many with gerstley borate as a material...and now back to square
| one. I've a full load of bisque waiting for me to mix the glazes, now I've
| settled on them. I should have spent the time learning a glaze software
| program.Damn,damn,damn. Lori in New Port Richey
|
| Mert & Holly Kilpatrick wrote:
|
| > ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
| > I am interested in comments/reactions that people on the list have to
the
| > news that I read in Clay Times, that Gerstley Borate mining has been
| > discontinued by US Borax, and in a couple years, once the stockpiles are
| > used up, will no longer be available. This would seem to me to be
pretty
| > big news, seeing how many glazes use GB. What do others think?
| >
| > Holly, in PA
Ron Roy on thu 6 jan 00
This is not going to be a big deal - there are frits that are close and
Cadycal is going to work for most glazes - I am guessing but I think it
will cost about the same as GB. It is a much more stable material and our
glazes will be the better for the changes.
Craig - have you noticed any flocculation problems with Cadycal?
If you need glazes changed over it's part of what I do to earn my keep.
RR
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
hal mc whinnie on sat 8 jan 00
the real problem for either colemanite or gertseley borate is that these
were usefull as fluxes in low fire glazxes and could replace the
widespread use of lead.
one can use frites such as 3124 or 3134 but these are more expensive.
maybe it is time to focuse on the calculation of some new low fire cone
04 glazes.
one could begin with a simple formula
40 neph syn
30whiting
20epk
10silica
GEORGE HILL on sat 8 jan 00
Ron:
The cost is close to GB. And yes there is a flocculation issue, it
compacts
more than GB in a shorter time. But it does work nice once you get past
the
brushing and dipping issues.
George Hill
Clay Art Center
Ron Roy wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> This is not going to be a big deal - there are frits that are close and
> Cadycal is going to work for most glazes - I am guessing but I think it
> will cost about the same as GB. It is a much more stable material and our
> glazes will be the better for the changes.
>
> Craig - have you noticed any flocculation problems with Cadycal?
>
> If you need glazes changed over it's part of what I do to earn my keep.
>
> RR
>
> Ron Roy
> 93 Pegasus Trail
> Scarborough
> Ontario, Canada
> M1G 3N8
> Evenings 416-439-2621
> Fax 416-438-7849
Doug Kassebaum on sat 8 jan 00
It is true that mining of Gerstley Borate has ceased. The supplier, US
Borax, notified Laguna Clay about a month ago, though they were not
forthcoming in an explanation why they had stopped or why they did not tell
us they planned to stop. Our impression is that the environmental
liabilities of that mine were too great to continue work it.
While the mining is over, the immediate availability of Gerstley is not
threatened. When we found out about the closing, Laguna purchased about 200
tons, or what is normally a 12-16 month supply. This material is in the
process of being trucked from the mine, ground and bagged, with an expected
delivery at our City of Industry plant in early February.
Laguna's remaining supply of Gerstley will be available without restriction
to all comers until it is gone. Our pricing will continue to reflect
material costs and fair mark-ups, and will not increase as the supply
decreases.
We are currently working to find a replacement for Gerstley Borate, and are
having good results. So far two materials have offered promise, and we are
testing them across our broad range of glazes. When we feel we have found
the best possible replacement, we will offer guidelines for its use in
different applications.
It is Laguna's belief that there will be time for every conscientious user
of Gerstley Borate to replace that material before the supply has been
depleted. We expect to conclude our testing, make recommendations, and
supply a replacement within several months. That will allow many more months
for you to test and adjust your mixes to produce the best possible ware.
Watch this web site for the latest news: http://www.lagunaclay.com/gb.htm.
Doug Kassebaum
Laguna Clay Co, NY
(315) 685-8378
doug@lagunaclay.com
www.lagunaclay.com
Linda Arbuckle on sat 8 jan 00
One of the things about Gerstley Borate does that frit doesn't satisfy
is that G.B is thixotropic and brushes really well w/o the need for
gums, etc.. Things in a mixture with G.B. don't settle out, unlike frit,
which sinks like sand unless other measures are taken.
Linda
--
Linda Arbuckle, Assoc. Prof.
Univ of FL
School of Art and Art History
P.O. Box 115801, Gainesville, FL 32611-5801
(352) 392-0201 x 219
e-mail: arbuck@ufl.edu
mary simmons on sat 15 jan 00
To all fans of Gerstley Borate (and I am one):
I used Frit 3134 in a GB glaze. Frit 3134 changed the color and the
texture fairly radically.
I substituted Frit for GB gram for gram, without regard to what was in the
gb (I did not know at the time). I do now:
GB1 Frit 3134
SiO2 16.26 46.5
Al2O3 1.94
Fe2O3 0.61
MnO 0.02
MgO 4.54
CaO 24.87 20.1
Na2O 4.36 10.3
K2O 0.58
TiO2 0.08
P2O5 0.08
LOI 26.3
total 79.64
B2O3 20.36 23.1
total 100.00
So I'm new at this OK? It was a learning experience! Obviously we can't
do what I did and expect the same results in all glazes, eh? SO, the
answer seems to be: test the substitution of frit for gb and if it doesn't
produce the same results, I don't see any way around this but to have the
gb tested also--THEN come up with a reasonable substitute. Somehow.......
GB is not a mineral, it is an aggregate of minerals (which is the book
definition of a rock). Tom Buck has written up a few paragraphs at the end
of the GB sheet on Tony Hansen's web site after researching what gb is.
Tom reports that it is composed of limestone, shale, ulexite and
colemanite. This means that gb is composed of 3 minerals + a rock (shale),
Shales contain quartz, feldspar, clay minerals, and probably small amounts
of iron minerals as well as calcite and god knows what else. While testing
my samples, we wondered what structure this stuff is in, whether there is
carbonate or not--so we dropped some HCl on the powder, and it fizzed like
mad--this is an indication of a carbonate, which verifies the limestone
that TOm reported. There is a lot of CaO, which is probably taken up by
the boron minerals and calcite (limestone). The presence of MgO suggests
there may be some dolomite, which is also a carbonate but won't fizz under
HCl unless it is in a fine powder, which gb certainly is.
GB as everyone probably knows, is a rock that is mined from evaporite
basins--low arid places where water + sediments collect and the water
evaporates, which is why there is so much other stuff in it==this is what
gives gb it's wonderful (just kidding) variations! Following are two more
samples I tested--GB2 is from a batch I just bought, fearing the end of gb,
and GB3 is from a sample a friend sent me. GB1 and GB3 are old batches:
GB1 GB2 GB3
SiO2 16.26 15.02 9.27
Al2O3 1.94 1.68 0.79
Fe2O3 0.61 0.50 0.14
MnO 0.02 0.03 0.03
MgO 4.54 4.85 3.64
CaO 24.87 25.29 25.23
Na2O 4.36 4.00 5.27
K2O 0.58 0.56 0.32
TiO2 0.08 0.08 0.03
P2O5 0.08 0.08 0.06
LOI 26.3 25.90 27.64
total 79.64 77.99 72.42
B2O3 20.36 22.01 27.58
total 100.00 100.00 100.00
I haven't tried GB2 yet, so don't know how much the variation within gb
will affect the glaze.
I am working on some boron standards in the lab here, so I can get a true
read on the boron. What I have shown is a gb quantity that was gotten by
subtracting everything else from 100--which is also why these analyses
magically came out to 100% --that does not happen in real life, partly
because I did not test for trace elements, which are probably 1-2%, and
also because machines aren't perfect either, no matter how much they try to
convince us otherwise.
Also, there is a large LOI in GB, which I did come up with by testing.
That much LOI (which is all the volatiles, like water and CO2 and etc that
burn out) will cause the sample disk to shrink a bit, so it is not
un-likely to get a total analysis that is over 100%. For those that do
this sort of thing, The Senior Scientist of the Universe in our chemistry
lab tells me to divide through the whole column by 1.023, which accounts
for the shrinkage when LOI is high. In the above analyses, though, the
boron is a mathematical calculation, so as I said, giving a fakey perfect
100%, so I did not divide thru the whole calc.
So, we gotta come up with a way to substitute something else for gb. I am
thinking I'll run these samples thru another magical machine here (XRD),
which will tell us all the minerals that are in the samples.
Will keep ya'll posted
mary
Ron Roy on mon 17 jan 00
Hi george - I wrote asking for more info and I wonder if you got it?
This is what I sent Jan 9:
Hi George,
Would you be kind enough to explain what happens when you use Cadycal in a
glaze.
It would be very helpful if I could have examples - a recipe and what
happens to it in the bucket - I will not broadcast any recipes - - and will
not keep them.
I may be able to revise the recipes for you so the problems are minimized
or even gone.
Thanks for the answer - I really appreciate haveing some insight -
especially if there will be no more GB - RR
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Ron:
>
>The cost is close to GB. And yes there is a flocculation issue, it
>compacts
>more than GB in a shorter time. But it does work nice once you get past
>the
>brushing and dipping issues.
>
>George Hill
>Clay Art Center
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
Jim Kassebaum on sat 22 jan 00
There seems to be some misinformation being disseminated about gerstley
borate availability and pricing. There is an explanation of the situation,
substitute materials, etc. on Laguna's website (www.lagunaclay.com). Part
of the problem for all of us is the lack of information forthcoming from
U.S. Borax - sales to the ceramic industry being a minute part of U.S.
Borax's business which seems to be commensurate with the amount and
timelines of information they have provided recently.
Regarding pricing, yes, Borax has instituted a price increase (only 10-12%)
due to costs incurred in transporting the remaining large boulders of
gerstley from the recently closed mine at Gerstley, CA to their plant at
Boron, CA for processing. This was not necessary when the facility at
Gerstley was still open. We'll provide updates on the whole gerstley matter
on www.lagunaclay.com as new information is available.
Jim Kassebaum
Laguna Clay Co
GEORGE HILL on tue 1 feb 00
Im sorry Roy for the time it has taken me to get back to you. I have
been dealing with Clay Art Centers Web site www.clayartcenter.com Im
back for now what can I answer for you about the Cadycal.
I will be happy to share what we have learned and will soon be posting
our findings on the web site.
George Hill
Clay Art Ccenter
www.clayartcenter.com
Diane Karmiol on wed 2 feb 00
Hope someone can answer this one.
I have a recipe from Clay Times for Oil Spot Raku
Gerstley Borate 50.0%
Frit 3134 50.0%
100.0%
add Tim Oxide 5.1%
Copper Oxide 4.3
(or replace tin oxide with 1.7% manganese carbonate for oil luster effect)
An incredible Mediterranean blue-green when oxidezed; has a high metallic
sheen when reduced.
My question is: if Frit 3134 may be substituted for the Gerstley Borate,
should I use 100.0% Frit 3134? I have no chemistry training and rely on the
goodness and expertise from the artists on Clayart to guide me in the right
direction.
Thank you all in advance.
Diane in Miami
Ron Roy on sun 6 feb 00
Hi Diane,
This is not what I would call a glaze - very little alumina and
silica and not fit for use with food.
I tried to sub the GB out with f3134 but it was impossible to get
anywhere near the original. I did get close with cadycal however. You
will have to test this to see if it will stay suspended in the bucket
and not run too much.
Frit 3134 - 68
Cadycal - 23
Talc - 6
Ball Clay - 3 (I used OM#4)
Total - 100
Let us know if it looks the same please - RR
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hope someone can answer this one.
>I have a recipe from Clay Times for Oil Spot Raku
>Gerstley Borate 50.0%
>Frit 3134 50.0%
> 100.0%
>add Tim Oxide 5.1%
>Copper Oxide 4.3
>(or replace tin oxide with 1.7% manganese carbonate for oil luster effect)
>
>An incredible Mediterranean blue-green when oxidezed; has a high metallic
>sheen when reduced.
>
>My question is: if Frit 3134 may be substituted for the Gerstley Borate,
>should I use 100.0% Frit 3134? I have no chemistry training and rely on the
>goodness and expertise from the artists on Clayart to guide me in the right
>direction.
>
>Thank you all in advance.
>Diane in Miami
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail,
Scarborough, Ontario
Canada. M1G 3N8
Tel: 416-439-2621
Fax: 416-438-7849
Lawrence Ewing on mon 7 feb 00
Hi Dianne & Ron,
Here is another possible alternative for your 50/50
glaze. Not sure about the availability of Ferro 3270
or the suspension of this glaze. Seems to me the chemical
side of replacing Gerstley is not too difficult but
the physical qualities e.g. suspension for very low
temp glazes will be a challenge.
There seems to be an opportunity here for the design
of a new fritt.
Formula Recipe
-------------------------------------------------------
KNO 0.2591 Ferro 3134 52.63
CaO 0.7409 Cadycal 26.32
Al2O3 0.0359 Ferro 3270 21.05
B2O3 0.7852
SiO2 1.1861
K2O 0.0246
Na2O 0.2345
Al:Si 33.0448
Expan 0.8293
ST 2.7297
------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On Behalf
Of Ron Roy
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 11:21 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: Gerstley Borate
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hi Diane,
This is not what I would call a glaze - very little alumina and
silica and not fit for use with food.
I tried to sub the GB out with f3134 but it was impossible to get
anywhere near the original. I did get close with cadycal however. You
will have to test this to see if it will stay suspended in the bucket
and not run too much.
Frit 3134 - 68
Cadycal - 23
Talc - 6
Ball Clay - 3 (I used OM#4)
Total - 100
Let us know if it looks the same please - RR
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hope someone can answer this one.
>I have a recipe from Clay Times for Oil Spot Raku
>Gerstley Borate 50.0%
>Frit 3134 50.0%
> 100.0%
>add Tim Oxide 5.1%
>Copper Oxide 4.3
>(or replace tin oxide with 1.7% manganese carbonate for oil luster effect)
>
>An incredible Mediterranean blue-green when oxidezed; has a high metallic
>sheen when reduced.
>
>My question is: if Frit 3134 may be substituted for the Gerstley Borate,
>should I use 100.0% Frit 3134? I have no chemistry training and rely on
the
>goodness and expertise from the artists on Clayart to guide me in the right
>direction.
>
>Thank you all in advance.
>Diane in Miami
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail,
Scarborough, Ontario
Canada. M1G 3N8
Tel: 416-439-2621
Fax: 416-438-7849
Chris on wed 1 mar 00
------------------
Gerstley Borate Dose any one out there have the latest formula some of my
glazes
Seem to be crazing and I=92m trying to run it down. It could be the clay, in
witch case.
Change is needed in the glaze anyway. Laguna B Mix seems to be in some sort
of
Continuous flux if you know what I mean. I=92m sure I saw a new formula out
there just
A few weeks ago and it never made it into my notes. Thank You ChrisJ
Nichola Darwin on wed 29 mar 00
------------------
Hello Eveyone=21
I am an English amatuer potter and have been following the discourse on =
CLAYART
avidly for sometime now, but I would like to ask one question.
What is Gerstley Borate? And is it available in England or is there an
alternative? (O.K. Two qoestions=21)
Thankyou=21
nichola=40ndarwin.freeserve.co.uk
Marshall Talbott on thu 6 apr 00
At the link below I'm compiling information on the soon to be extinct
product of Gerstley Borate... If you know of clayart messages that pertain
to this topic please point me in that direction..
http://www.potteryinfo.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000024.html
Thanks.. Marshall
http://www.potteryinfo.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
mary simmons on thu 6 apr 00
Hi Folks-
One of your brethren sent me a sample of gb from Hammill & Gillespie's
batch #8852 He gave me permission to post this analysis to the list (if
anyone else has an analysis of this batch, I'd appreciate a look at
it--always good to double check what our machines tell us).:
H&G #8852
SiO2 17.88
Al2O3 1.97
Fe2O3 0.54
MnO 0.03
MgO 5.59
CaO 26.22
Na2O 4.09
K2O 0.53
TiO2 0.10
P2O5 0.13
LOI 26.80
total 83.87
B2O3 16.13
total 100.00
Boron is a difficult mineral to detect using XRF because we use lithium
tetraBORATE as a flux to melt the sample into a disk. B203 is gotten by
subtracting all the other major elements plus LOI from 100. There are,
however, some trace elements, maybe 1% or so, so keep that in mind
For the benefit of those who missed the other three analyses I did on
sample of gb whose batch numbers are unknown, here they are again:
GB1 GB2 GB3
SiO2 15.88 14.67 9.05
Al2O3 1.89 1.64 0.77
Fe2O3 0.60 0.49 0.14
MnO 0.02 0.03 0.03
MgO 4.43 4.74 3.55
CaO 24.29 24.70 24.64
Na2O 4.26 3.91 5.15
K2O 0.57 0.55 0.31
TiO2 0.08 0.08 0.03
P2O5 0.08 0.08 0.06
LOI 26.30 25.90 27.64
total 78.39 76.77 71.37
B2O3 21.61 23.23 28.63
total 100.00 100.00 100.00
same thing about the boron applies.....
These analyses, while perhaps not exactly what YOU have, are closer than
what is reported in the ceramic databases (ie: 16.8% CaO, 9.3% Na2O, 52.3%
B2O3)
cheers-
mary
J.H. Gorman on fri 7 apr 00
hammill&gillespie working on a substitute for gerstley borate!
it will be a blend of colemanite and some soda should be out soon i
have been told
colemanite will sub in almost any raku glaze calling for gerstly borate
with some slight or no adjustment to the glaze!
jim gorman
MBnews@AOL.COM on thu 6 jul 00
Trinity Ceramics in Dallas has been out of GB for a while. Someone mentioned
thinking they have it. Anyway, when I joined this list I remember the hot
topic was "Ghastly Borate". How time does change things. We are going off
on vacation so I will be off list for a while. Keep up the good stuff and
I'll check you online when I get a chance to see what the issue of the day
might be. Always a shock to go away and come home in mid-stream of a good
discussion. So keep on puggin'. Hugs, Mary Beth Bishop
John Post on tue 8 aug 00
At 07:18 AM 8/10/00 EDT, you wrote:
>I am beginning to replace gerstley borate with frits. i need some advice.
>for ^6 glazes is it better to replace GB with frit 3124 or frit 3134?
>so far i have used 3124 and seems to work just as well as GB
>i wish to thank anyone who can help me.
>Antonia
Hi Antonia,
I prefer 3134 over 3124 because it does not have any alumina in it. That
means you can get more clay into the recipe. You may actually need more
clay since the GB often helps to suspend the glaze. You have to use glaze
calculation to do this.
I use Glazchem by Robert Wilt. It is a GREAT program. It has a button
that you press on the recipe page called "batch calculation". When you
press this a new page opens that has a button called "make suggestion".
Glazechem actually goes through the oxides in a glaze and suggest what
chemicals you can use to replace them. A great feature. When you see the
program suggest GB, click on frit 3134 instead and it will tell you how
much gets added to the glaze. There is a little more to it than this, but
not much. Check out Glazchem, you'll love it. With experience using
Glazchem you can recalculate glazes in a couple of minutes.
If you want to you can either send me the recipes or post them to clayart
and I can recalculate them for you. Glazes with over 30% GB are difficult
to convert using the 2 frits you mentioned. But glazes less than 30 aren't
too bad sometimes.
If you are just replacing the GB with frit in a one to one ratio, you may
be getting nice glazes, but they won't match the originals as closely as
they could.
J. Post
waverock@c3net.net
Cerere@AOL.COM on thu 10 aug 00
I am beginning to replace gerstley borate with frits. i need some advice.
for ^6 glazes is it better to replace GB with frit 3124 or frit 3134?
so far i have used 3124 and seems to work just as well as GB
i wish to thank anyone who can help me.
Antonia
GURUSHAKTI@AOL.COM on thu 10 aug 00
Dear Antonia:
If you want to duplicate your glaze you need to break down the recipe to it's
empirical formula and then re-calculate it for a frit. Frit 3134 and 3124 as
well as 3195 are good boron frits, but they all come with different
assortment of Calcium, Soda, Alumina, etc. Use a glaze calculation program
and then you can pretty well duplicate most recipes more precisely.
I believe that there is a free on line glaze calculation program that you can
use. Perhaps someone else on the list has more information and can provide
you with the URL.
Warm regards,
June
Tom Buck on wed 13 sep 00
Rick M:
thanks for asking, and yes I had a good summer healthwise and
managed some pots too. you ask for that item I did for our local guild
newsletter; it is quite local you understand, but here it is (and it goes
to the list as you suggested):
---------------------------
Ask Tom - tech talk by Tom Buck. (revised Aug.31, 2000)
Gerstley Borate Update
Over the summer there were developments in the Gerstley
Borate saga. Until 2000, a single mine in California produced
perhaps 1000 tons/year of the mineral for sale, in small part,
to potters. When the mine was closed several companies rushed
to offer substitutes (mostly one-for-one). As of early August,
accordimg to Digitalfire Corp's Tony Hansen, these materials
had been announced:
Laguna Borate (Laguna Clay);
Gillespie Borate (Hammill & Gillespie);
Murrays Borate (Kickwheel);
Cadycal (Fort Cady Minerals);
a new frit, Ferro's CC298-C;
minerals ulexite & colemanite from South America and Turkey;
and perhaps Boraq (if Plainsman/Axner decide to produce it).
When potters saw the chemical make-up of some of these materials, they
worried that the substitutes would not replace Gerstley Borate,
especially its ability to keep glaze mixes well suspended in the bucket.
Meanwhile, test results have trickled in, chiefly through the Clayart
Forum on the Internet. Some potters said they found that their glaze mix,
using one of the above, quickly settled into hardpan, and when fired the
coloured glazes didn't show as expected (often muted).
It will be sometime yet before the shakeout is over. But
meanwhile, Pottery Supply House (west Toronto) is stocking Laguna Borate
at close
to GB's regular price; and Tucker's (north Toronto) is stocking Cadycal,
the calcium borate
chemical from Fort Cady, at a price unknown to me (but likely higher
than GB's). Consultant Ron Roy says he is conducting many tests and
will soon make a recommendation to Tucker's on other substitutes.
In June, at Darlene Benner's raku party, I tested my
Synthetic GB mix, and found that it worked ok, but the one glaze
I tested indicated that the Fe2O3 content was a tad high for the colour
response I wanted. So, here is my revised concoction (as one Clayarter
called it):
Tom's Synthetic Gerstley Borate for Raku
490 Pemco frit 2201 or Fusion frit F309
280 Whiting
125 Talc
65 Feldspar (any)
40 unwashed, well-screened, woodash (any)
2 Iron oxide red (1/2 tsp)
1 Titanium dioxide (1/5 tsp)
Dry mix the above ingredients, then use it as if it were Gerstley Borate
in one (or more) of your Raku glazes. Keep well stirred, it will settle
fairly quickly.
By the way, all you Netters should go to:
http://www.gerstleyborate.com/
and read what Tony Hansen has written on this topic. Fabulous reporting.
til later, peace. Tom Buck.
----------------end of item---------------
There you go, Rick. Hope you are well and keeping busy. tty later. Peace.
Tom.
Tom Buck ) tel: 905-389-2339
(westend Lake Ontario, province of Ontario, Canada).
mailing address: 373 East 43rd Street,
Hamilton ON L8T 3E1 Canada
Frank Gaydos on fri 12 jan 01
Will Edwards, the loss of GBorate certainly is inconvenient, but not the =
end of the world.
I look at it as an opportunity to improve your base glazes.
So far I have obtained two substitutes for GB (Laguna and IMCO) and am =
currently working on the percentage replacements in my glazes.=20
Even better, I mixed up a dozen base test glazes looking for nice =
texture, surface and color response, sans GB.
I can share the most promising here now.
Most were found in Clayart archives, I did not copy who submitted what =
so I cannot give proper attributes.
All cone 04 Oxidation:
A.
Ferro Frit 3134 38
Lithium Carbonate 10
Nepheline Syenite 5
EPKaolin 5
Flint (Silica) 42
Glossy, Texture base , and good color
B.
This might be a Ron Roy Glaze
Nepheline Syenite 34
Ferro Frit 3134 26
Wollastonite 10
Zinc Oxide 6
EPKaolin 24
I found this to be too matte for my clay body , but it takes color great =
and I will play with fluxes/EPK to get it more melty.
C.
Ferro Frit 3124 70
Strontium Carbonate 10
Nepheline Syenite 10
Ball Clay OM4 10
Glossy, milky base and very good color.
D.
Ferro Frit 3134 44
Dolomite 8
EPKaolin 12
Whiting 8
Flint(Silica) 28
A Semi-Matte Smooth with good color
E.
Ferro Frit 3124 80
Georgia Kaolin 7
Nepheline Syenite 13
A Glossy, Milky base and very good color.
F.
Ferro Frit 3110 71.43
Grolleg Kaolin 14.29
Flint(Silica) 9.52
Opax 4.76
Glossy good color.
Now, results may vary depending on your clay body. I did not have time =
to process these in a glaze calc program. I have not done an acid test =
on them. Don't know how they flow, etc.
I have only added cobalt oxide, copper oxide ,mixed both of them =
together, plus opax to that mixture to see if the glazes have good color =
response.
Next week I will do a more complete color spectrum testing to try =
getting a nice palette.
Feel free to use. Please email me if you find an especially nice color =
oxide combination.:>)
Frank Gaydos
510 Gerritt St.
Philadelphia, Pa.
19147-5821 USA
"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark =
Twain
http://home.earthlink.net/~fgaydos/
heloisareis on fri 19 oct 01
Hi Elizabeth
Here in Brazil we don't find GB, too.
So, I've substituted it by a frite ( is that the correct word?) which =
I
understand to be a fusing material prepared by industry and easily found=
in
Brazilian market. Here it is called 096,and is an alcaline fuser.
It seems to me that Gerstley Borate is an alcaline fuser too for medium
temperatures ( around 1000 celsius).
Hope you find it there!
"Paz!"
=C9 preciso entender a Arte Contempor=E2nea?
Nova DICA SOBRE ARTE CONTEMPOR=C2NEA
Leia em
http://www.atelierheloisareis.art.br
Edouard Bastarache on wed 9 jan 02
Hello to all who read and/or speak french,
Smart.Conseil and I invite you to visit our french report on Gerstley =
Borate at:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
Later,
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
Lee Love on thu 10 jan 02
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edouard Bastarache"
>Smart.Conseil and I invite you to visit our french report on Gerstley Borate
at:
>
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
English speakers can go here: http://www.altavista.com/r?F09 and then enter
Edouard's page and read in english. :^)
The individual pages of the articles don't seem to work as http addresses in
Bablefish, but if you cut and copy the text and then paste it into bablefish,
you can actually understand most of what is being said. The same cannot be
said for Bablefish's Japanese to English translations. ;^)
--
Lee Love
Mashiko JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
Interested in Folkcraft? Signup:
Subscribe: mingei-subscribe@egroups.com
Or: http://www.egroups.com/group/mingei
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Richard Jeffery on thu 10 jan 02
bien fait, les gars....
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Edouard Bastarache
Sent: 09 January 2002 22:02
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Gerstley Borate
Hello to all who read and/or speak french,
Smart.Conseil and I invite you to visit our french report on Gerstley Borate
at:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
Later,
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Edouard Bastarache on thu 10 jan 02
Merci beaucoup Richard,
je transmets tes commentaires au
"Flying Frenchman", Smart.Conseil.
=C0 plus tard,
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Jeffery
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Gerstley Borate
> bien fait, les gars....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> Behalf Of Edouard Bastarache
> Sent: 09 January 2002 22:02
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Gerstley Borate
>
>
> Hello to all who read and/or speak french,
>
> Smart.Conseil and I invite you to visit our french report on Gerstley
Borate
> at:
>
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
>
>
>
> Later,
>
>
>
>
> Edouard Bastarache
> Irreductible Quebecois
> Indomitable Quebeker
> Sorel-Tracy
> Quebec
> edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Richard Jeffery on thu 10 jan 02
le francais volant, au volant..... image de voiture, poussiere, soleil,
arbres genereux.....
ou veux tu me faire comprendre qu'il s'agit d'un belge, facon Magritte? (mes
excuses Russel)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Edouard Bastarache
Sent: 10 January 2002 19:09
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Gerstley Borate
Merci beaucoup Richard,
je transmets tes commentaires au
"Flying Frenchman", Smart.Conseil.
À plus tard,
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Jeffery
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Gerstley Borate
> bien fait, les gars....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> Behalf Of Edouard Bastarache
> Sent: 09 January 2002 22:02
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Gerstley Borate
>
>
> Hello to all who read and/or speak french,
>
> Smart.Conseil and I invite you to visit our french report on Gerstley
Borate
> at:
>
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
>
>
>
> Later,
>
>
>
>
> Edouard Bastarache
> Irreductible Quebecois
> Indomitable Quebeker
> Sorel-Tracy
> Quebec
> edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Edouard Bastarache on thu 10 jan 02
Hihihihi Richard,
Smart.Conseil est un fran=E7ais typique.
Je l'ai nomm=E9 "Flying Frenchman" par
analogie avec le surnom de la c=E9l=E8bre
=E9quipe de hockey de Montr=E9al,
les Canadiens, surnomm=E9s "Flying Frenchmen"
pour leur vitesse sur glace et leurs nombreux
exploits dans ce sport.
Autrement dit, Smart est un "petit vite".
=C0 plus tard,
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Jeffery
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: Gerstley Borate
> le francais volant, au volant..... image de voiture, poussiere, soleil=
,
> arbres genereux.....
>
> ou veux tu me faire comprendre qu'il s'agit d'un belge, facon Magritte?
(mes
> excuses Russel)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> Behalf Of Edouard Bastarache
> Sent: 10 January 2002 19:09
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Gerstley Borate
>
>
> Merci beaucoup Richard,
>
> je transmets tes commentaires au
> "Flying Frenchman", Smart.Conseil.
>
>
> =C0 plus tard,
>
>
> Edouard Bastarache
> Irreductible Quebecois
> Indomitable Quebeker
> Sorel-Tracy
> Quebec
> edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Jeffery
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Gerstley Borate
>
>
> > bien fait, les gars....
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]O=
n
> > Behalf Of Edouard Bastarache
> > Sent: 09 January 2002 22:02
> > To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > Subject: Gerstley Borate
> >
> >
> > Hello to all who read and/or speak french,
> >
> > Smart.Conseil and I invite you to visit our french report on Gerstley
> Borate
> > at:
> >
> > http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > Later,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Edouard Bastarache
> > Irreductible Quebecois
> > Indomitable Quebeker
> > Sorel-Tracy
> > Quebec
> > edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> > http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> > http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> > __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Richard Jeffery on fri 11 jan 02
le francais typique - c'est quoi, ca?
Ciao....... [? - oui, je sais, je taquine....]
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Edouard Bastarache
Sent: 11 January 2002 01:24
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Gerstley Borate
Hihihihi Richard,
Smart.Conseil est un français typique.
Je l'ai nommé "Flying Frenchman" par
analogie avec le surnom de la célèbre
équipe de hockey de Montréal,
les Canadiens, surnommés "Flying Frenchmen"
pour leur vitesse sur glace et leurs nombreux
exploits dans ce sport.
Autrement dit, Smart est un "petit vite".
À plus tard,
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Jeffery
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: Gerstley Borate
> le francais volant, au volant..... image de voiture, poussiere, soleil,
> arbres genereux.....
>
> ou veux tu me faire comprendre qu'il s'agit d'un belge, facon Magritte?
(mes
> excuses Russel)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> Behalf Of Edouard Bastarache
> Sent: 10 January 2002 19:09
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Gerstley Borate
>
>
> Merci beaucoup Richard,
>
> je transmets tes commentaires au
> "Flying Frenchman", Smart.Conseil.
>
>
> À plus tard,
>
>
> Edouard Bastarache
> Irreductible Quebecois
> Indomitable Quebeker
> Sorel-Tracy
> Quebec
> edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Jeffery
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Gerstley Borate
>
>
> > bien fait, les gars....
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> > Behalf Of Edouard Bastarache
> > Sent: 09 January 2002 22:02
> > To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > Subject: Gerstley Borate
> >
> >
> > Hello to all who read and/or speak french,
> >
> > Smart.Conseil and I invite you to visit our french report on Gerstley
> Borate
> > at:
> >
> > http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > Later,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Edouard Bastarache
> > Irreductible Quebecois
> > Indomitable Quebeker
> > Sorel-Tracy
> > Quebec
> > edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> > http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> > http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
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>
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____________________________________________________________________________
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melpots@pclink.com.
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Gary Ferguson on fri 16 aug 02
See: http://www.lagunaclay.com/gb.htm
Gary Ferguson
Clay Artist
http://www.garyrferguson.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Faber"
To:
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 7:34 AM
Subject: Gerstley Borate
> I heard that Gerstley borate was being mined again.
>
> Any one else catching similar talkings?
>
> Thanks
> jon in cleveland
>
> __________________________________________________
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melpots@pclink.com.
Jon Faber on fri 16 aug 02
I heard that Gerstley borate was being mined again.
Any one else catching similar talkings?
Thanks
jon in cleveland
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marianne Ver Eecke on mon 9 dec 02
Is soda calcium borate the same as gerstley borate?Someone told me.
Marie-Anne
_________________________________________________________________
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Charles Hughes on tue 27 jan 04
I have a very recent "horses mouth" update from laguna, from the same gentleman who posted from laguna before. The gist of it was that Laguna owns the rest of the stockpile, early estimates were that it would last about 2 years, however now they feel it may last as long as 7-10 years. I think I still have the letter on file at my studio, I will forward it to the group tomorrow (Wednesday) if I do.
Best wishes,
Charles Hughes
"Leland G. Hall" wrote:
Greeting GB users,haters,lovers,dealers, miners, substitute makers and clay-
art community in general-
Will someone from Laguna Clay please stand up and tell us whats really up
with GB?
I know that it never really quite went away. They DID stop mining it for a
time. Then just before the dealers were all out, Laguna bought "the last
remaining stockpile". Raised the price a bit, and life continued. Though
they did say (on their website) that when it was gone, it was gone. (I
paraphrase) They even went so far as predict, at current sales volume
(this was a couple years ago) just how long the "last remaining stockpile"
would last. (which is a number I don't remember).
So, here we are again. Rumors and conjecture abound. I make my living,
such as it is, with this stuff. I still have a couple two or three hundred
pounds, so I'm good to go for while. But of course, I am keenly interested
in the truth regarding GB. And I wont take much of anything as truth,
untill I hear it from Laguna Clay Company, or US Borax. (who owned the
mine, last I heard)
I think Hamer and Gilespe milled it for the East Coast market?
So PLEASE, will someone from US Borax, or Laguna Clay (or Hamer)let us know
the curent status of Gersley Borate?
There are many who need to know.
Thank you
Leland Hall
Before The Wheel Enterprises
Raku Pottery and Sculpture
La Pine, OR. USA
______________________________________________________________________________
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David Hewitt on wed 28 jan 04
Does anyone have an analysis of the currently mined GB and does this
differ from the previous supply?
David
In message , Charles Hughes writes
>I have a very recent "horses mouth" update from laguna, from the same gentleman
>who posted from laguna before. The gist of it was that Laguna owns the rest of
>the stockpile, early estimates were that it would last about 2 years, however
>now they feel it may last as long as 7-10 years. I think I still have the letter
>on file at my studio, I will forward it to the group tomorrow (Wednesday) if I
>do.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Charles Hughes
>
>
>
>
>"Leland G. Hall" wrote:
>Greeting GB users,haters,lovers,dealers, miners, substitute makers and clay-
>art community in general-
>
>Will someone from Laguna Clay please stand up and tell us whats really up
>with GB?
>
>I know that it never really quite went away. They DID stop mining it for a
>time. Then just before the dealers were all out, Laguna bought "the last
>remaining stockpile". Raised the price a bit, and life continued. Though
>they did say (on their website) that when it was gone, it was gone. (I
>paraphrase) They even went so far as predict, at current sales volume
>(this was a couple years ago) just how long the "last remaining stockpile"
>would last. (which is a number I don't remember).
>
>So, here we are again. Rumors and conjecture abound. I make my living,
>such as it is, with this stuff. I still have a couple two or three hundred
>pounds, so I'm good to go for while. But of course, I am keenly interested
>in the truth regarding GB. And I wont take much of anything as truth,
>untill I hear it from Laguna Clay Company, or US Borax. (who owned the
>mine, last I heard)
>
>I think Hamer and Gilespe milled it for the East Coast market?
>
>So PLEASE, will someone from US Borax, or Laguna Clay (or Hamer)let us know
>the curent status of Gersley Borate?
>
>There are many who need to know.
>
>
>Thank you
>
>Leland Hall
>Before The Wheel Enterprises
>Raku Pottery and Sculpture
>La Pine, OR. USA
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>---------------------------------
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David Hewitt
David Hewitt Pottery
South Wales UK
Web:- http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk
Leland G. Hall on sat 13 mar 04
I believe that a couple of years ago, when the GB scare took place, that I
tried pretty much every GB sub that came along. Gilespie was probably the
best for our purposes. But the truth is, for the type of raku we do, the
methods we are used to, none of them were suitable. We simply could not
reproduce the veriegation. (spelling, sorry) So we bought many hundreds
of pounds of gb. I think that with around 200 more lbs., I will never run
out in my lifetime. Life is good.
Leland Hall
Before The Wheel Enterprises
Raku pottery and sculpture
La Pine, OR
"To a hammer, every thing is a nail"
Andie Plamondon on sun 10 jul 05
I promise I Googled the archives before posting -
I have finally unpacked my studio completely, and apparently I was afraid of
going through some sort of Gerstley Borate withdrawl - I seem to have
squirreled away a few hundred pounds of the stuff.
Meanwhile I changed all my glazes and no longer use it -
I wonder if there is anyone near me who needs it -
I'm in Laurel, DE, near Salisbury, MD -
Email me off list at andiekc@dmv.com
:) Andie Plamondon
Handful of Earth Pottery
www.handfulofearth.com
Paul Herman on sun 28 aug 05
Geoff,
Laguna has the stuff, and will sell it to you tomorrow I'm sure.
Best,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://www.greatbasinpottery.com/
----------
>From: Geoffrey Barst
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Gerstley Borate
>Date: Sun, Aug 28, 2005, 8:01 AM
>
> My clay supplier told me that Laguna Clay bought the mine where GB is
> produced & they are planning to start selling it again. Anyone know if &
> when?
>
> Geoff Barst
Geoffrey Barst on sun 28 aug 05
My clay supplier told me that Laguna Clay bought the mine where GB is
produced & they are planning to start selling it again. Anyone know if &
when?
Geoff Barst
Snail Scott on mon 29 aug 05
At 11:01 AM 8/28/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>My clay supplier told me that Laguna Clay bought the mine where GB is
>produced & they are planning to start selling it again. Anyone know if &
>when?
They've been selling it for quite a while,
through their distributors and directly.
-Snail
Kathi LeSueur on thu 8 sep 05
A friend called last night with a glaze problem. It's a cone 10 glaze
that we both use. When he opened the kiln the glaze had spit off of the
pots. The only change was a new bag of gerstley borate from Laguna. I
asked when he bought it and he couldn't remember. Also didn't have the
bag any more. I seem to remember that Laguna was offering a gerstley sub
for a while and that there were problems with it. I'm wondering if
that's what he had.
Has anyone on the list had a similar problem with the gerstley borate
from Laguna?
Kathi
Lois Ruben Aronow on thu 8 sep 05
I think this is a problem with Gerstley Borate in general, which is why it's
often called "Ghastley Borate". It can differ significantly from batch to
batch. It's not unique to Laguna.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
> Kathi LeSueur
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:32 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: gerstley borate
>
> A friend called last night with a glaze problem. It's a cone
> 10 glaze that we both use. When he opened the kiln the glaze
> had spit off of the pots. The only change was a new bag of
> gerstley borate from Laguna. I asked when he bought it and he
> couldn't remember. Also didn't have the bag any more. I seem
> to remember that Laguna was offering a gerstley sub for a
> while and that there were problems with it. I'm wondering if
> that's what he had.
>
> Has anyone on the list had a similar problem with the
> gerstley borate from Laguna?
>
> Kathi
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Elizabeth Hewitt on tue 18 sep 07
If you had the opportunity to buy or sell some Gerstley Borate at this
point, what is a reasonable price to pay/charge per pound?
Elizabeth
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Peter H. Pache on tue 18 sep 07
From: Elizabeth Hewitt
<>
I buy it from New Mexico Clay in Albuquerque, who gets it from Laguna. I'm paying $1.09/pound, with a discount when buying it per bag.
Peter
NM
Elizabeth Hewitt on wed 19 sep 07
Thank you, Peter. That was helpful.
Elizabeth
Virginia Piazza on mon 7 jan 08
Hi,
I have tried to find an answer to this in the archives.
For several years, I have used a glossy liner glaze with no problems.
Lately, there have been increasing problems with crazing, and in a couple of
cases, cracks have developed in the bodies.
I was told by a friend who has is a ceramic engineer that this is a
result of dishwasher-induced thermal shock.
The glaze is 19% gerstley borate, and I have been using a full bag, obtained
from my
Laguna dealer. ( I do however have new supplies of Nepheline syenite and
Frit 3124,
each of which comprises about 25% of the glaze).
I have been doing some reading, and came across list in Ron Roy's book in
which GB
is on list of things to avoid.
I wonder if the synthetic Gillespie borate is more reliable, and if so would
I do a direct substitution?
Any help/ knowledge would be appreciated!
Thanks.
Virginia Piazza
_vppottery@aol.com_ (mailto:vppottery@aol.com)
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
KATHI LESUEUR on mon 7 jan 08
On Jan 7, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Virginia Piazza wrote:
>
>
> <<> a couple of
>
> cases, cracks have developed in the bodies.
>
> I was told by a friend who has is a ceramic engineer that this is a
>
> result of dishwasher-induced thermal shock.>>>
>
>
I've recently had customers comment to me that pots they've had for
years are suddenly crazing. The common denominator seems to be a new
dishwasher with super hot water at the very beginning of the wash
cycle. When one of my customers mentioned it (not about my pots but
others they've had for years), I gave a possibility of thermal
shock . Perhaps your friend is correct.
Kathi
Steve Slatin on mon 7 jan 08
Virginia --
This is one of those sometimes yes, sometimes
no deals.
For several gerstley based glazes I've tried, a
one-for-one substitution has worked perfectly.
The materials are not, however, identical.
I have had a few glazes craze with gillespie
when they did not with gerstley. The good
thing about gillespie is it is very consistent
from bag to bag. Gerstley is not.
-- Steve Slatin
Virginia Piazza wrote:
Hi,
I have tried to find an answer to this in the archives.
For several years, I have used a glossy liner glaze with no problems.
Lately, there have been increasing problems with crazing, and in a couple of
cases, cracks have developed in the bodies.
I was told by a friend who has is a ceramic engineer that this is a
result of dishwasher-induced thermal shock.
The glaze is 19% gerstley borate, and I have been using a full bag, obtained
from my
Laguna dealer. ( I do however have new supplies of Nepheline syenite and
Frit 3124,
each of which comprises about 25% of the glaze).
I have been doing some reading, and came across list in Ron Roy's book in
which GB
is on list of things to avoid.
I wonder if the synthetic Gillespie borate is more reliable, and if so would
I do a direct substitution?
Any help/ knowledge would be appreciated!
Thanks.
Virginia Piazza
Steve Slatin --
History teaches us that there have been but few infringements of personal liberty by the state which have not been justified ...
in the name of righteousness and the public good, and few which
have not been directed ... at politically helpless minorities.
-- Harlan Fiske Stone
---------------------------------
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Lois Ruben Aronow on tue 8 jan 08
Dishwasher and microwave use all cause crazing and cracks over the years.
I have run my work through the dishwasher for years (as have friends and
family) with no problem. However, I visited my in-laws, and their mugs have
really apparent crazing. After a little detective work, I discovered they
were not only putting them in the nuke box daily, but boiling the water
directly in the cups.
FWIW.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
> KATHI LESUEUR
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 7:33 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: gerstley borate
>
> On Jan 7, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Virginia Piazza wrote:
> >
> >
> > <<> crazing, and in a
> > couple of
> >
> > cases, cracks have developed in the bodies.
> >
> > I was told by a friend who has is a ceramic engineer that this is a
> >
> > result of dishwasher-induced thermal shock.>>>
> >
> >
>
> I've recently had customers comment to me that pots they've
> had for years are suddenly crazing. The common denominator
> seems to be a new dishwasher with super hot water at the very
> beginning of the wash cycle. When one of my customers
> mentioned it (not about my pots but others they've had for
> years), I gave a possibility of thermal shock . Perhaps your
> friend is correct.
>
> Kathi
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or
> change your subscription settings here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
June Perry on tue 8 jan 08
I had a small white (white body, white glazed) Dansk pitcher that I used for
at least 20 years in the microwave to heat milk and butter for mashed
potatoes. A couple of years ago it developed some glaze crazing and then one day
when I went to lift it out of the microwave, it burned my hand! So, it's easy
to see how those of us who sell pots as microwave safe, may present a problem
down the line for our customers.
Those apparently good glazes may craze in time and may, like my Dansk
picture start to absorb the hot liquid and burn a customers hand.
Love,
June
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Craig Martell on tue 8 jan 08
Virginia was saying:
>Lately, there have been increasing problems with crazing, and in a couple of
>cases, cracks have developed in the bodies.
>I was told by a friend who has is a ceramic engineer that this is a
>result of dishwasher-induced thermal shock.
Hello Virginia:
Dishwasher induced thermal shock really doesn't tell you much other than
there's a possibility that your ware may be experiencing some volume change
(expansion) when being run thru a dishwasher.
Glazes craze and pots crack because of an incompatibility between the clay
and glaze or glazes that are covering the piece. I assume, from the not so
detailed description of your glaze that you are probably firing at cone 5
or 6 and possibly lower. If this is the case you might want to test the
claybody for percent of absorbed H2O. If the clay is absorbing too much
water it will expand and cause the glaze to craze. The cracking of the
ware is another thing and may be related to the differences in the liner
and exterior glaze. But it's good to remember that faults in glazes and or
pots can be related to only the glaze, or only the pot, and sometimes both
the pot and the glaze.
The gerstley borate could be at fault but you don't know that for sure. GB
is a mix of the mineral Ulexite plus some Colemanite and Probertite with
maybe some bentonite and shale as well. It's not a processed mineral and
can vary from bag to bag, batch to batch. It's basically and
Sodium-Calcium Borate material and the boron can vary. Boron is a low
expander which will help glaze fit but when it's lower in the material the
higher expanders, sodium and calcium can cause crazing.
You could eliminate the GB with glaze calculation and just use frit 3134 or
a combination of frits. You would also need to adjust the Nepheline
Syenite, which is a very high expansion feldspathoid material, and the clay
and silica if those materials are in the glaze as well.
regards, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
Ron Roy on thu 10 jan 08
Hi Virginia,
Cracking and crazing do not usually happen together - usually one or the
other - what does the "crazing" look like? Spiral crazing for instance is
really a form of shivering for instance - which can cause cracking.
The best sub to try is Gillespie Borate - you can check out the Hammil and
Gillespie web site - maybe they have a listing of dealers.
Web: http://www.hamgil.com
GB is now even more of a variable material - you used to be able to get an
analysis from Laguna for it but they have stopped providing that useful bit
of information. I have never seen an explanation for this change in policy.
The other approach is to use a frit to get the boron you need.
Send me the recipe and I will do a conversion for you.
RR
>I have tried to find an answer to this in the archives.
>
>For several years, I have used a glossy liner glaze with no problems.
>
>Lately, there have been increasing problems with crazing, and in a couple of
>
>cases, cracks have developed in the bodies.
>
>I was told by a friend who has is a ceramic engineer that this is a
>
>result of dishwasher-induced thermal shock.
>
>The glaze is 19% gerstley borate, and I have been using a full bag, obtained
>from my
>
> Laguna dealer. ( I do however have new supplies of Nepheline syenite and
>Frit 3124,
>
>each of which comprises about 25% of the glaze).
>
>I have been doing some reading, and came across list in Ron Roy's book in
>which GB
>
>is on list of things to avoid.
>
>I wonder if the synthetic Gillespie borate is more reliable, and if so would
>
>I do a direct substitution?
>
>
>Any help/ knowledge would be appreciated!
>
>Thanks.
>
>Virginia Piazza
>_vppottery@aol.com_ (mailto:vppottery@aol.com)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
>http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
>subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Ron Roy on thu 10 jan 08
If there is cracking or crazing happening in a dish washer or a microware
oven it is because the expansion/contraction of clay and glaze are not
properly balanced - or the clay is not vitrified enough to keep out water -
or both.
Any ware that connot handle super hot water - or boiling water - without
crazing - needs the glaze adjusted.
RR
>> On Jan 7, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Virginia Piazza wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > <<>> crazing, and in a
>> > couple of
>> >
>> > cases, cracks have developed in the bodies.
>> >
>> > I was told by a friend who has is a ceramic engineer that this is a
>> >
>> > result of dishwasher-induced thermal shock.>>>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I've recently had customers comment to me that pots they've
>> had for years are suddenly crazing. The common denominator
>> seems to be a new dishwasher with super hot water at the very
>> beginning of the wash cycle. When one of my customers
>> mentioned it (not about my pots but others they've had for
>> years), I gave a possibility of thermal shock . Perhaps your
>> friend is correct.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
James Freeman on thu 28 apr 11
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Alice DeLisle wrote:
For a number of years the talk has been that Gerstley Borate (GB) is being
mined
out and will not be available soon. Yet glaze recipes containing GB
continue to
circulate and, more importantly, appear in publications. This is
particularly
true of raku glazes and mid-fire glazes. If you look at the clay supply
catalogs, GB is still listed for sale. Were new sources for GB found that
remove the concerns about availability?
Alice...
I can't speak to the mining issue, but about five years ago I switched to
Gillespie borate as a straight one-to-one substitute, and have noticed no
difference at all in my glazes, including in very high GB recipes. By
making such a switch, one avoids both the potential availability problem an=
d
the variability problem inherent in a mined product such as Gerstley borate
or colemanite.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
Paul Lewing on thu 28 apr 11
On Apr 28, 2011, at 3:05 PM, Alice DeLisle wrote:
For a number of years the talk has been that Gerstley Borate (GB) is
being mined
out and will not be available soon. Yet glaze recipes containing GB
continue to
circulate and, more importantly, appear in publications. This is
particularly
true of raku glazes and mid-fire glazes. If you look at the clay supply
catalogs, GB is still listed for sale. Were new sources for GB found
that
remove the concerns about availability?
Gerstley Borate actually only ever came from one mine in California.
It was wildly inconsistent from one point in the mine to another, and
to compensate for that, I heard that they tried to mix it all together
to get it more consistent, but since they did the mixing with a front-
end loader, it wasn't exactly careful. The problem with supply was
never that there wasn't enough of it, it was that no one but potters
used it and so the market for it was so small it wasn't worth mining.
So they quit. But there was such a howling from potters that Laguna
bought the rights to it and mined a bunch of it so they had a stock.
I don't know if that stock is now running out or if they plan to mine
more.
It's true that the chemistry of GB can be duplicated (IF you have an
accurate analysis of the particular batch that you have) with frits or
one of several mixed substitutes like Laguna or Murray's Borate of
Borac. My experience with those things is that some glazes work fine
with one or another of them, but another glaze might need a different
one to duplicate what you got from GB.
And while the chemical properties of GB are easy to duplicate, the
hydrological properties are not. That turn-to-jelly thing that it
does is why so many raku glazes are half GB and half something else
(frit, feldspar, Cornwall Stone etc.). And that is almost impossible
to duplicate without additions of some other chemical like gum.
I never understood why it was referred to as "Ghastly". It's true
that if you changed batches of it you might get completely different
results than you had been getting, but if you have a consistent
supply, it's a wonderful material, unlike anything else. Especially
in midrange oxidation glazes where it's so easy to get flat
uninteresting surfaces, it's a godsend.
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
www.paullewingart.com
Alice DeLisle on thu 28 apr 11
Thanks James. I have quite a bit of Gerstley and it is good to know that
Gillespie will substitute in the future.
Alice DeLisle
wanderland@att.net
http://www.etsy.com/shop/IslandTextures
________________________________
From: James Freeman
To: Alice DeLisle
Cc: Clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 10:02:02 PM
Subject: Re: Gerstley Borate
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Alice DeLisle wrote:
For a number of years the talk has been that Gerstley Borate (GB) is being =
mined
out and will not be available soon. Yet glaze recipes containing GB contin=
ue to
circulate and, more importantly, appear in publications. This is particula=
rly
true of raku glazes and mid-fire glazes. If you look at the clay supply
catalogs, GB is still listed for sale. Were new sources for GB found that
remove the concerns about availability?
Alice...
I can't speak to the mining issue, but about five years ago I switched to
Gillespie borate as a straight one-to-one substitute, and have noticed no
difference at all in my glazes, including in very high GB recipes. By maki=
ng
such a switch, one avoids both the potential availability problem and the
variability problem inherent in a mined product such as Gerstley borate or
colemanite.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should =
not
speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
Alice DeLisle on thu 28 apr 11
For a number of years the talk has been that Gerstley Borate (GB) is being =
mined
out and will not be available soon. Yet glaze recipes containing GB contin=
ue to
circulate and, more importantly, appear in publications. This is particula=
rly
true of raku glazes and mid-fire glazes. If you look at the clay supply
catalogs, GB is still listed for sale. Were new sources for GB found that
remove the concerns about availability?
Alice DeLisle
wanderland@att.net
http://www.etsy.com/shop/IslandTextures
William & Susan Schran User on thu 28 apr 11
On 4/28/11 6:05 PM, "Alice DeLisle" wrote:
> If you look at the clay supply
> catalogs, GB is still listed for sale. Were new sources for GB found tha=
t
> remove the concerns about availability?
No more is being mined, at least as far as I know.
There is still a stock of it, who knows how long it will last.
We have moved away from gerstley to frits in most all of our glazes at
school.
Just bought bag of Gillespie Borate, plan to test it against the real stuff
this summer during raku class.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Eric Hansen on thu 28 apr 11
try Gillespie borate or Laguna borate - very similar & a few
adjsutments can be made to get similar results as Gerstley
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Alice DeLisle wrote:
> For a number of years the talk has been that Gerstley Borate (GB) is bein=
=3D
g mined
> out and will not be available soon. =3DA0Yet glaze recipes containing GB =
co=3D
ntinue to
> circulate and, more importantly, appear in publications. =3DA0This is par=
ti=3D
cularly
> true of raku glazes and mid-fire glazes. =3DA0If you look at the clay sup=
pl=3D
y
> catalogs, GB is still listed for sale. =3DA0Were new sources for GB found=
t=3D
hat
> remove the concerns about availability?
>
> =3DA0Alice DeLisle
>
> wanderland@att.net
> http://www.etsy.com/shop/IslandTextures
>
--=3D20
Eric Alan Hansen
Stonehouse Studio Pottery
Alexandria, Virginia
americanpotter.blogspot.com
thesuddenschool.blogspot.com
hansencookbook.blogspot.com
"Simplify, simplify, simplify" - Thoreau
Lili Krakowski on thu 28 apr 11
There is a reason potters speak of Gerstley Borate as "Ghastly Borate" =3D
: that it always was variable , untrustworthy, and a major heartache.
If you go to Digitalfire Ceramic Material Data Base you will learn all =3D
about it.
No doubt, since the mines were closed some ten or so years ago, supplies =
=3D
have dwindled. But as many of us switched to frits as soon as the news =3D
came of the mine closings, the supplies may still be around.
As to recipes: A lot of recipes simply have not been revised. A studio =
=3D
potter with a 100 lbs bag of GB may well not use it all up for another =3D
decade. If you figure how much a 10K bucket of glaze glazes, and how =3D
little GB would be in that 10K you can see how long a potter might have =3D
some GB left.
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
David Martin Hershey on fri 29 apr 11
Hi All,
A few years ago when Laguna CA
started stocking
GB again, I asked Joe Koons how
much of it they had.
He said a railroad car-load...
That's a LOT of GB.
Recently I asked Amber Webb in
Laguna purchasing
how much they had left. Her reply:
"It looks like we have plenty of
stock in Gerstley Borate at this time."
Like Paul Lewing said, there's
something special about
the GB that's around right now.
I've developed a few really nice
fat glazes that use it. ^5-6
They just don't seem the same using
a substitute.
I guess if it ever looks like
Laguna's current supply is getting low,
I'll buy a "lifetime" supply. But
right now, it's easier to store it
in their warehouse, rather than my
studio.
Many thanks to Laguna for making
the effort
to make GB available again for
potters in the US.
Best, DMH
David Martin Hershey
DMH Studio + Design
2629 Manhattan Ave #137
Hermosa Beach CA USA
90254-2447 424.241.3809
http://www.dmhstudio.com/
http://www.obamacardgold.com
http://www.winetastingtrolley.com/
On 4/28/2011 8:30 PM, Paul Lewing
wrote:
>
> And while the chemical properties
> of GB are easy to duplicate, the
> hydrological properties are not.
jonathan kaplan on fri 29 apr 11
Recently there have been some posts regarding Gerstley Borate.
A recent article authored by Jeff Zamek and myself in the current issue =3D
of Ceramics Technical details the history of the material and the =3D
comparative testing of a replacement material, Gillespie Borate. =3D
Complete with photographs of test samples glaze formulas, Hyperglaze =3D
and Insight analysis.=3D20
Best
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan
curator
Plinth Gallery
3520 Brighton Blvd
Denver, CO 80216
www.plinthgallery.com
303 295-0717 =3D20
Ron Roy on sat 30 apr 11
Hi Alice,
Bit of a mystery here - the analysis for GB used to be available from
Laguna but they are not supplying the analysis anymore - I don't know
why.
This brings up some questions about quality control - some potters
have had unusual results with the newer GB.
The closest substitute from a chemical stand point is Gillespie Borate.
I have personally converted hundreds of GB glazes to frits and for the
most part the reported results are just fine.
If you have a glaze calculation program I can help you learn how to do it.
RR
Quoting Alice DeLisle :
> For a number of years the talk has been that Gerstley Borate (GB) is
> being mined
> out and will not be available soon. Yet glaze recipes containing GB
> continue to
> circulate and, more importantly, appear in publications. This is
> particularly
> true of raku glazes and mid-fire glazes. If you look at the clay supply
> catalogs, GB is still listed for sale. Were new sources for GB found tha=
t
> remove the concerns about availability?
>
> Alice DeLisle
>
> wanderland@att.net
> http://www.etsy.com/shop/IslandTextures
>
Sumi von Dassow on sat 30 apr 11
Ron
I spoke to a technical person at Laguna once a few years ago and he said
they
don't try to publish an analysis for GB any more because it changes so
often.
Sumi
> Hi Alice,
>
> Bit of a mystery here - the analysis for GB used to be available from
> Laguna but they are not supplying the analysis anymore - I don't know
> why.
>
> This brings up some questions about quality control - some potters
> have had unusual results with the newer GB.
>
> The closest substitute from a chemical stand point is Gillespie Borate.
>
> I have personally converted hundreds of GB glazes to frits and for the
> most part the reported results are just fine.
>
> If you have a glaze calculation program I can help you learn how to do
> it.
>
> RR
>
>
> Quoting Alice DeLisle :
>
>> For a number of years the talk has been that Gerstley Borate (GB) is
>> being mined
>> out and will not be available soon. Yet glaze recipes containing GB
>> continue to
>> circulate and, more importantly, appear in publications. This is
>> particularly
>> true of raku glazes and mid-fire glazes. If you look at the clay supply
>> catalogs, GB is still listed for sale. Were new sources for GB found
>> that
>> remove the concerns about availability?
>>
>> Alice DeLisle
>>
>> wanderland@att.net
>> http://www.etsy.com/shop/IslandTextures
>>
>
>
--
Sumi von Dassow
www.herwheel.com
sumi@herwheel.com
Steve Mills on sat 30 apr 11
I am profoundly glad that GB was never part of the UK glaze making scene. I=
t=3D
made sure our life as materials suppliers was relatively simple as we were=
n=3D
ever faced with trying to substitute it with other chemicals!!
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
On 28 Apr 2011, at 23:58, Lili Krakowski wrote:
> There is a reason potters speak of Gerstley Borate as "Ghastly Borate" :=
t=3D
hat it always was variable , untrustworthy, and a major heartache.
>=3D20
> If you go to Digitalfire Ceramic Material Data Base you will learn all ab=
o=3D
ut it.
>=3D20
> No doubt, since the mines were closed some ten or so years ago, supplies =
h=3D
ave dwindled. But as many of us switched to frits as soon as the news came=
o=3D
f the mine closings, the supplies may still be around.
>=3D20
> As to recipes: A lot of recipes simply have not been revised. A studio =
p=3D
otter with a 100 lbs bag of GB may well not use it all up for another decad=
e=3D
. If you figure how much a 10K bucket of glaze glazes, and how little GB w=
o=3D
uld be in that 10K you can see how long a potter might have some GB left.
>=3D20
> Lili Krakowski
> Be of good courage
Ron Roy on sun 1 may 11
Thanks Sumi,
It seems to me that is a good reason to have an analysis for each
batch. In the old days - when you bought a bag of GB there was a batch
number on the bag and you could contact Hammil and Gillespie and get
the analysis for that batch.
That alone is a compelling argument for using frits or substitutes instead.
Of course you could get an analysis for the material if you were
willing to pay for it.
RR
Quoting Sumi von Dassow :
> Ron
>
> I spoke to a technical person at Laguna once a few years ago and he said =
they
> don't try to publish an analysis for GB any more because it changes so of=
ten.
>
> Sumi
>> Hi Alice,
>>
>> Bit of a mystery here - the analysis for GB used to be available from
>> Laguna but they are not supplying the analysis anymore - I don't know
>> why.
>>
>> This brings up some questions about quality control - some potters
>> have had unusual results with the newer GB.
>>
>> The closest substitute from a chemical stand point is Gillespie Borate.
>>
>> I have personally converted hundreds of GB glazes to frits and for the
>> most part the reported results are just fine.
>>
>> If you have a glaze calculation program I can help you learn how to do i=
t.
>>
>> RR
>>
>>
>> Quoting Alice DeLisle :
>>
>>> For a number of years the talk has been that Gerstley Borate (GB) is
>>> being mined
>>> out and will not be available soon. Yet glaze recipes containing GB
>>> continue to
>>> circulate and, more importantly, appear in publications. This is
>>> particularly
>>> true of raku glazes and mid-fire glazes. If you look at the clay suppl=
y
>>> catalogs, GB is still listed for sale. Were new sources for GB found t=
hat
>>> remove the concerns about availability?
>>>
>>> Alice DeLisle
>>>
>>> wanderland@att.net
>>> http://www.etsy.com/shop/IslandTextures
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sumi von Dassow
> www.herwheel.com
> sumi@herwheel.com
>
>
Alice DeLisle on mon 2 may 11
Hi Ron,
Thanks for the very generous offer. I saw your response to Lois today and =
am
glad because that is exactly what I was going to suggest - doing the
substitution exercise on clayart, maybe using a recipe that was recently
published on Ceramics Art Daily. Even better that you are doing it with a
recipe that Lois needs.
I have one glaze that has GB and almost 100 lb of GB. I figure that it is
close to a lifetime supply for that particular glaze so am not worried abo=
ut
substitution. I posted my question just because I was curious about the
current GB situation and the fact that there continue to be recipes publis=
hed
in the clay magazines and online that include GB.
I was just commenting to my husband that you and John Hesselberth have pro=
bably
made some of the most significant contributions to studio potters in the l=
ast
several years with Mastering Cone 6 Glazes, glaze calculation software an=
d
generous support on glaze issues. If there were a Nobel Prize for Ceramic=
s,
you would both certainly be winners. Thank you.
Alice DeLisle
wanderland@att.net
http://www.etsy.com/shop/IslandTextures
________________________________
From: "ronroy@ca.inter.net"
Bit of a mystery here - the analysis for GB used to be available from Lagun=
a but
they are not supplying the analysis anymore - I don't know why.
This brings up some questions about quality control - some potters have had
unusual results with the newer GB.
The closest substitute from a chemical stand point is Gillespie Borate.
I have personally converted hundreds of GB glazes to frits and for the most=
part
the reported results are just fine.
If you have a glaze calculation program I can help you learn how to do it.
RR
Quoting Alice DeLisle :
> For a number of years the talk has been that Gerstley Borate (GB) is bein=
g
>mined
> out and will not be available soon. Yet glaze recipes containing GB cont=
inue
>to
> circulate and, more importantly, appear in publications. This is particu=
larly
> true of raku glazes and mid-fire glazes. If you look at the clay supply
> catalogs, GB is still listed for sale. Were new sources for GB found tha=
t
> remove the concerns about availability?
>
> Alice DeLisle
>
> wanderland@att.net
> http://www.etsy.com/shop/IslandTextures
>
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