David Hewitt on tue 22 jul 97
It may be of some interest to Clayart readers who may be concerned if GB
ever becomes unavailable to know that in the UK it is rarely used. I
was, infact, quite surprised when I first connected to Clayart to see
how many North American recipes included GB. It seemed to me that no
recipe was complete without first stating the % GB.
The reasons for the difference I suspect are primarily cost, although I
do not have figures to quote. Add this to the variability problems and
it seems much better to use a frit with a much more predictable
composition. Colemanite is considered to be even more unpredictable and
as Tom Buck has said, is likely to blow bits of glaze off the pot.
Strangely one sees Colemanite more often listed in Craft Pottery
suppliers. Currently its cost is approx 3 Pound UK (Including VAT)for a
1Kg bag.
The inclusion of B2O3 in a glaze is often done because it is being fired
at say cone 5 or 6, but it is quite easy to produce transparent shiney
glazes at these cones without B2O3. If the body is a porcelain,
however, it may well be necessary to include a suitable Low Expansion
frit that includes B2O3 in order to avoid crazing.
--
David Hewitt
David Hewitt Pottery ,
7 Fairfield Road, Caerleon, Newport,
South Wales, NP6 1DQ, UK. Tel:- +44 (0) 1633 420647
URL http://www.ceramicsoftware.com/education/people/hewitt.htm
Paul Lewing on sun 7 oct 01
on 10/7/01 1:12 PM, Nancy Jervey at njervey@SOMTEL.COM wrote:
> Is there a substitute for Gertsley Borate for Cone 6 glazes? Thanks.
Nancy, see Jeff Zamek's excellent article in the current issue of Ceramics
Monthly.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Nancy Jervey on sun 7 oct 01
Is there a substitute for Gertsley Borate for Cone 6 glazes? Thanks.
Nancy
scott lykens on mon 8 oct 01
>Laguna has got some more original gerstley, visit the website for a
>distributor near you at
www.lagunaclay.com
just an FYI for those unsatisfied with sub options, by all meaans if a sub
is working then bully for you.
sct>
> > Is there a substitute for Gertsley Borate for Cone 6 glazes? Thanks.
>
>Nancy, see Jeff Zamek's excellent article in the current issue of Ceramics
>Monthly.
>Paul Lewing, Seattle
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
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Elizabeth Ellis on wed 17 oct 01
Hello everyone
This is my first time at this site and am desperate
for help
I cant get gertsley borate here in new zealand and
need a substitute - not colemanite please have tried
this and it doesnt work - if I cant get one is there a
site where I can go and get glaze recipies from very
nice helpful willing to share potters who like to help
innocent little learners like me??
Thanks for any help anyone can give me
Elizabeth
=====
Please note the new spelling of my email address. *mudpax*
__________________________________________________
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Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
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Bud Britt on thu 18 oct 01
Was reading a page the other day about this,
http://www.pottery-books.com/cgi-local/axner/loadpage.cgi?user_id=3922529&fi
le=reference/gerstleyborate/index.html
You might have to cut and paste to get it all in your browser address bar.
They detail sub's on it also. Lot's of info.
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Ellis"
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 5:48 PM
Subject: Gertsley Borate
> Hello everyone
> This is my first time at this site and am desperate
> for help
> I cant get gertsley borate here in new zealand and
> need a substitute - not colemanite please have tried
> this and it doesnt work - if I cant get one is there a
> site where I can go and get glaze recipies from very
> nice helpful willing to share potters who like to help
> innocent little learners like me??
> Thanks for any help anyone can give me
> Elizabeth
>
> =====
>
> Please note the new spelling of my email address. *mudpax*
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
>
Joan Ashworth on fri 19 oct 01
Elizabeth
A potter I know, Shirley Foster, begins by subbing a Ferro Frit for
GB/colemanite ingredients. I think it is a starting point.
She is an immigrant to New Zealand from South Africa.
scott lykens on fri 19 oct 01
I hate to doubt you, but i am wondering how mail wont go from canada or the
usa to new zealand. Perhaps UPS wont go from one to another, but it seems
that somehow canadians and americans are able to ship things to new zealand.
I'm not being smart, i'm being curious, cause i think whats happening is
that your local supply store just doesnt carry it, or want to, and perhaps
has told you, they cant get it. But If you can receive mail from the US or
Canada, you cna get gerstley borate. Try Atlantic Pottery Supply in Nova
Scotia.
But Gerstley is alive and well, and you just need to buy some shipping.
Dont quit just yet, after all they built the brooklyn bridge, we can figure
out how to ship you materials. Somebody on the list must know a company
that ships to new Zealand. Oh wait, i just heard a second ago, UPS ships
world wide. So just order some gerstly borate from a bigger supply house
that has UPS and Gertsly Borate. And wala, your done.
sub, schmub, you get the real deal.>
>Hello everyone
>This is my first time at this site and am desperate
>for help
>I cant get gertsley borate here in new zealand and
>need a substitute - not colemanite please have tried
>this and it doesnt work - if I cant get one is there a
>site where I can go and get glaze recipies from very
>nice helpful willing to share potters who like to help
>innocent little learners like me??
>Thanks for any help anyone can give me
>Elizabeth
>
>=====
>
>Please note the new spelling of my email address. *mudpax*
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
>http://personals.yahoo.com
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Ababi on fri 19 oct 01
There are three main ways to sub GB
1) To buy a substitute, try your recipe, works good not so much, adjust.
2) Using a software, almost in all cases with frits, cadycal, GB
substitutes can win it.
3)For these of you that do not want to use software, start all over,
new recipes
From looking at databases, I can tell you that there are more frits
than the most popular. The way it looks, most of the
www.big.suppliers.com keep only the most favorite ones, the most common
ones. for their own benefit, not yours(or mine)
Ababi Sharon
Kibbutz Shoval- Israel
Glaze addict
sharon@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/
http://www.milkywayceramics.com/cgallery/asharon.htm
http://www.israelceramics.org/
---------- Original Message ----------
>Elizabeth
>A potter I know, Shirley Foster, begins by subbing a Ferro Frit for
>GB/colemanite ingredients. I think it is a starting point.
>She is an immigrant to New Zealand from South Africa.
>________________________________________________________________________
>______
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
C TRIPP on fri 19 oct 01
Scott wrote (in part)
> But Gerstley is alive and well, and you just need to buy some shipping.
> Dont quit just yet, after all they built the brooklyn bridge, we can
figure
> out how to ship you materials. Somebody on the list must know a company
> that ships to new Zealand. Oh wait, i just heard a second ago, UPS ships
> world wide. >
Elizabeth wrote:
>Hello everyone
> >This is my first time at this site and am desperate
> >for help
> >I cant get gertsley borate here in new zealand and
> >need a substitute - not colemanite please have tried
> >this and it doesnt work - if I cant get one is there a
> >site where I can go and get glaze recipies from very
> >nice helpful willing to share potters who like to help
> >innocent little learners like me??
> >Thanks for any help anyone can give me
> >Elizabeth
> >
> >=====
Hi Scott,
Yes, UPS ships worldwide but it costs a bomb to use them. Shipping via air
is expensive. Sea Mail is the cheapest but it is still pricy and very slow.
(I'm still waiting for an order shipped from Florida on July 27th.) I live
in Dubai and I have to have everything shipped in and it is very expensive.
If I lived in New Zealand, I would try to find local subs for Gerstley or
reformulate to leave it behind. Why pay the sun, the moon and the stars
when you have a choice?
I hope Elizabeth finds what she seeks locally and saves herself a ton of
money. Supplies at catalog prices - what a concept (to steal on of mel's
lines.)
Best regards,
Carol
PS Our Dubai Art Centre imports clay from New Zealand. I import mine from
Canada. Another potter I know imports from England. And it all just got
pricier when Lloyds of London slapped on war rate insurance surcharges for
shipping to the Gulf last month.
_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
Ababi on fri 19 oct 01
This is very funny. I bought 10 kg of GB so I can develop quietly raku
glaze, and now I am "stuck" with 9.5 K'gs In Denmark so I heard you can buy
tons of it, perhaps here too. Because "We" the European , use mainly frits,
for us the "Europeans" the Gerstly is an imported material, not the soil
from back door. About the USP I have a surprise for you, they charge for
weight, distance and speed this way I calculated my Cadycal as 14$ for a
K'g.
----- Original Message -----
From: "scott lykens"
To:
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 05:11
Subject: Re: Gertsley Borate
> I hate to doubt you, but i am wondering how mail wont go from canada or
the
> usa to new zealand. Perhaps c wont go from one to another, but it seems
> that somehow canadians and americans are able to ship things to new
zealand.
> I'm not being smart, i'm being curious, cause i think whats happening is
> that your local supply store just doesnt carry it, or want to, and perhaps
> has told you, they cant get it. But If you can receive mail from the US
or
> Canada, you cna get ge rstley borate. Try Atlantic Pottery Supply in
Nova
> Scotia.
>
> But Gerstley is alive and well, and you just need to buy some shipping.
> Dont quit just yet, after all they built the brooklyn bridge, we can
figure
> out how to ship you materials. Somebody on the list must know a company
> that ships to new Zealand. Oh wait, i just heard a second ago, UPS ships
> world wide. So just order some gerstly borate from a bigger supply house
> that has UPS and Gertsly Borate. And wala, your done.
> sub, schmub, you get the real deal.>
>
>
>
> >Hello everyone
> >This is my first time at this site and am desperate
> >for help
> >I cant get gertsley borate here in new zealand and
> >need a substitute - not colemanite please have tried
> >this and it doesnt work - if I cant get one is there a
> >site where I can go and get glaze recipies from very
> >nice helpful willing to share potters who like to help
> >innocent little learners like me??
> >Thanks for any help anyone can give me
> >Elizabeth
> >
> >=====
> >
> >Please note the new spelling of my email address. *mudpax*
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> >http://personals.yahoo.com
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> >melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Earl Brunner on fri 19 oct 01
While in theory this might be correct, there are a couple of things to
consider. First shipping raw materials is expensive. Insert joke here
about shipping white powder through the mail. And second, Gerstley
Borate while available again for a short time, is no longer the cheap
alternative to frits that it once was. If you can develop a frit
alternative from locally priced materials you may be ahead in the long run.
scott lykens wrote:
> I hate to doubt you, but i am wondering how mail wont go from canada or the
> usa to new zealand. Perhaps UPS wont go from one to another, but it seems
> that somehow canadians and americans are able to ship things to new
> zealand.
> I'm not being smart, i'm being curious, cause i think whats happening is
> that your local supply store just doesnt carry it, or want to, and perhaps
> has told you, they cant get it. But If you can receive mail from the US or
> Canada, you cna get gerstley borate. Try Atlantic Pottery Supply in Nova
> Scotia.
>
> But Gerstley is alive and well, and you just need to buy some shipping.
> Dont quit just yet, after all they built the brooklyn bridge, we can figure
> out how to ship you materials. Somebody on the list must know a company
> that ships to new Zealand. Oh wait, i just heard a second ago, UPS ships
> world wide. So just order some gerstly borate from a bigger supply house
> that has UPS and Gertsly Borate. And wala, your done.
> sub, schmub, you get the real deal.>
>
>
>
>> Hello everyone
>> This is my first time at this site and am desperate
>> for help
>> I cant get gertsley borate here in new zealand and
>> need a substitute - not colemanite please have tried
>> this and it doesnt work - if I cant get one is there a
>> site where I can go and get glaze recipies from very
>> nice helpful willing to share potters who like to help
>> innocent little learners like me??
>> Thanks for any help anyone can give me
>> Elizabeth
>>
>> =====
>>
>> Please note the new spelling of my email address. *mudpax*
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
>> http://personals.yahoo.com
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
bruec@anv.net
Joan Ashworth on fri 19 oct 01
fostersa@xtra.nz.co
Contact Shirley Foster. She has successfully subbed a local New Zealand (or
Australian?) Ferro Frit (the equivalent of 3134 I guess) in glazes using
colemanite and or GB.
Joan
in Durban
John & Susan Balentine on mon 22 oct 01
Hi all --You can currently get Gerstley Borate from Laguna Clays and Highwater Clay
of Asheville. You will pay high dollar for it though--80cents a lb. Susan
Lawrence Ewing wrote:
> Hi Elizabeth,
>
> Just saw your note about Gerstley Borate on ClayArt. I think you can get
> Gerstley Borate still in New Zealand. When I get back to school tomorrow I
> will look up the name of the supplier for you. Some of the replies you have
> had suggest the substitution of other materials such as frit combinations,
> cadycal etc. This can be very useful if the quantity of GB is not too high
> and would involve the use of glaze software. William Edwards kindly offered
> his expert services and I could have a look at your glazes as well and offer
> some suggestions. There is no ultimate substitution material for GB I am
> afraid but there are various useful substitutes which have been commercially
> developed and which can be used in combination with one another again with
> the help of glaze software. You might like to use this experience as
> motivation to come to grips with glaze technology. Matrix is a New Zealand
> based software package which you might like to look at. You can get all the
> information you need about Matrix at www.Matrix2000.co.nz There is also a
> very user friendly glaze technology instruction programme called GlazeTeach
> which is available at www.Matrix2000.co.nz/GlazeTeach/Index.htm
>
> Where are you in NZ Elizabeth? If you are anywhere near Dunedin you could
> call at the School of Art at Otago Polytechnic. The school runs a glaze
> technology course for very reasonable fees but you can get our advice free
> of charge - just call in and say hello.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Lawrence Ewing
>
> Senior Lecturer
> Ceramics Department
> School of Art
> Otago Polytechnic
> Dunedin
> New Zealand
>
> email: lewing@clear.net.nz
>
> phone +64 03 472 8801
>
> MATRIX GLAZE CALCULATION SOFTWARE:
> http://www.Matrix2000.co.nz
>
> GLAZETEACH:
> http://www.Matrix2000.co.nz/GlazeTeach
>
> MATRIX TUTORIALS:
> http://www.Matrix2000.co.nz/MatrixTutorials
>
> MATRIX ADDITIONAL MATERIALS RESOURCE:
> http://www.Matrix2000.co.nz/MaterialsWeb/default.htm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> Behalf Of Elizabeth Ellis
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 1:48 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Gertsley Borate
>
> Hello everyone
> This is my first time at this site and am desperate
> for help
> I cant get gertsley borate here in new zealand and
> need a substitute - not colemanite please have tried
> this and it doesnt work - if I cant get one is there a
> site where I can go and get glaze recipies from very
> nice helpful willing to share potters who like to help
> innocent little learners like me??
> Thanks for any help anyone can give me
> Elizabeth
>
> =====
>
> Please note the new spelling of my email address. *mudpax*
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Lawrence Ewing on mon 22 oct 01
Hi Elizabeth,
Just saw your note about Gerstley Borate on ClayArt. I think you can get
Gerstley Borate still in New Zealand. When I get back to school tomorrow I
will look up the name of the supplier for you. Some of the replies you have
had suggest the substitution of other materials such as frit combinations,
cadycal etc. This can be very useful if the quantity of GB is not too high
and would involve the use of glaze software. William Edwards kindly offered
his expert services and I could have a look at your glazes as well and offer
some suggestions. There is no ultimate substitution material for GB I am
afraid but there are various useful substitutes which have been commercially
developed and which can be used in combination with one another again with
the help of glaze software. You might like to use this experience as
motivation to come to grips with glaze technology. Matrix is a New Zealand
based software package which you might like to look at. You can get all the
information you need about Matrix at www.Matrix2000.co.nz There is also a
very user friendly glaze technology instruction programme called GlazeTeach
which is available at www.Matrix2000.co.nz/GlazeTeach/Index.htm
Where are you in NZ Elizabeth? If you are anywhere near Dunedin you could
call at the School of Art at Otago Polytechnic. The school runs a glaze
technology course for very reasonable fees but you can get our advice free
of charge - just call in and say hello.
Cheers,
Lawrence Ewing
Senior Lecturer
Ceramics Department
School of Art
Otago Polytechnic
Dunedin
New Zealand
email: lewing@clear.net.nz
phone +64 03 472 8801
MATRIX GLAZE CALCULATION SOFTWARE:
http://www.Matrix2000.co.nz
GLAZETEACH:
http://www.Matrix2000.co.nz/GlazeTeach
MATRIX TUTORIALS:
http://www.Matrix2000.co.nz/MatrixTutorials
MATRIX ADDITIONAL MATERIALS RESOURCE:
http://www.Matrix2000.co.nz/MaterialsWeb/default.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Elizabeth Ellis
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 1:48 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Gertsley Borate
Hello everyone
This is my first time at this site and am desperate
for help
I cant get gertsley borate here in new zealand and
need a substitute - not colemanite please have tried
this and it doesnt work - if I cant get one is there a
site where I can go and get glaze recipies from very
nice helpful willing to share potters who like to help
innocent little learners like me??
Thanks for any help anyone can give me
Elizabeth
=====
Please note the new spelling of my email address. *mudpax*
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Bill Merrill on mon 2 may 11
One of the reasons Colemanite from the past was a problem for potters
was the material itself had 5 mols of water. It would spit off the pot
during the first pater of a firing when the chemical water was driven
off the glaze.
=3D20
I do high fire work and have found that Gertsley borate has been
consistent for me as I buy large amounts of materials at a time.
=3D20
The most GB in any glaze I use is 9%. If you want to test the different
GB or any substitute make batches (200 Gram) use a simple method doing a
direct substitute and the incrementally decrease or increase your new
material. Your glaze will tell you when look at it after firing if
you have maintained the surface quality of your glaze. =3D20
=3D20
I also use a Gb and rutile wash over glazes. The mix is 60% GB and 40
rutile. I also add GB to a mix of iron and rutile as a wash over cone
10 glazes.
=3D20
Bill Merrill
=3D20
=3D20
=3D20
=3D20
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