Wilkinson on wed 8 oct 97
After studying pottery in several places and taking a number of work shops
and working with clay for about ten years I got to thinking that the art of
clay falls in a number of areas such as clay preparation, throwing, hand
building, glaze mixing, kilns, and firing plus others. There seems to be
much attention paid to these areas by instructors and a lot written about
them in books and magazines. Maybe I have missed it but I really do not
see much attention paid to the actual technique of applying glaze. This
seems strange to me because IMO each of the above is an area to be
perfected. That accomplished and even with the proper glazes the piece
will be nothing if it is not applied properly. It has been my experience
that very little seems to be taught or written about the actual application
of the glaze or the technique of same.
Why is this so or have I missed something?
Lori Wilkinson
Roswell NM
LorWilk@dfn.com
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/1165
Carol Jackaway on wed 8 oct 97
Hi Lori,
When I was in college ( a thousand years ago) glaze application was gone
over very quickly. To apply glaze by either, dipping, pouring, brushing or
spraying was general discussed. It seemes as if experimention was the word
of the day. Since back then you had to make all your own glazes,
experimenting was a scary thing, but we did. Back then I sprayed, now
working from a home studio, having kids around and having asthma, I dip.
It seems to me that glaze application is a personal choice, as diverse as
the individuals themselves.
CoilLady
Carol Jackaway
Parkside Pa
I need the cooler weather tired of heat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Greg Lamont on thu 9 oct 97
As a current student in a large midwestern university's ceramics program, I
can only second what you have observed Lori. What glazing instruction I've
recieved is largely of what I call the "dunk-and-run" variety. While
regular demonstrations of various wheelthrowing and handbuilding techniques
are built into the syllabus, there are no demonstrations at all for glazing
techniques, slip, techniques, brushwork, etc. I've ruined many an otherwide
good pot-and I've seen many another student's otherwise good pot-- ruined
because of imporper application technique or lack of training on proper
application of glazes, brushing techniques, etc. Sure these techniques are
described in various books, but to actually see it done--as I was able to do
at a recent Robin Hopper workshop--is a thousand times better!
Greg
At 07:54 AM 10/8/97 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>After studying pottery in several places and taking a number of work shops
>and working with clay for about ten years I got to thinking that the art of
>clay falls in a number of areas such as clay preparation, throwing, hand
>building, glaze mixing, kilns, and firing plus others. There seems to be
>much attention paid to these areas by instructors and a lot written about
>them in books and magazines. Maybe I have missed it but I really do not
>see much attention paid to the actual technique of applying glaze. This
>seems strange to me because IMO each of the above is an area to be
>perfected. That accomplished and even with the proper glazes the piece
>will be nothing if it is not applied properly. It has been my experience
>that very little seems to be taught or written about the actual application
>of the glaze or the technique of same.
>
>Why is this so or have I missed something?
>
>Lori Wilkinson
>Roswell NM
>LorWilk@dfn.com
>http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/1165
>
Susan Benson on thu 9 oct 97
In a message dated 97-10-08 07:58:56 EDT, Lori Wilkinson writes:
<< That accomplished and even with the proper glazes the piece
will be nothing if it is not applied properly. It has been my experience
that very little seems to be taught or written about the actual application
of the glaze or the technique of same >>
To go even further, I have expressed to my current instructor that I feel my
glaze application techniques to be my weakest area, and have yet to get any
instruction after specifically asking for it.
In many schools, it seems glaze instruction is limited to " dunk it, don't
get it too thick, and make sure the wax resist starts 1/4 inch from the
bottom of the pot".
What's the best way to avoid drips, runs, and overlaps?
Thanks!
Susan
June Perry on thu 9 oct 97
Dear Lori:
One of the Stephen Jepson videos has a section on the actual making of glazes
and glazing. But you're right, it is a subject that is not covered very much.
Warm regards,
June
Bob Stryker on fri 10 oct 97
> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 07:54:00 EDT
> From: Wilkinson
> Subject: Glazing Techniques
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> After studying pottery in several places and taking a number of work shops
> and working with clay for about ten years I got to thinking that the art of
> clay falls in a number of areas such as clay preparation, throwing, hand
> building, glaze mixing, kilns, and firing plus others. There seems to be
> much attention paid to these areas by instructors and a lot written about
> them in books and magazines. Maybe I have missed it but I really do not
> see much attention paid to the actual technique of applying glaze.
--------Quote snipped here-------
I agree and would extend that to a lack of information on the
preparation of glaze. I wrote a column on dipping in the Winter 1995
edition of the newsletter that I edit, it is archived at
http://www.mm.com/mnclayus/winter95.html
I also have written a broader piece on preparing and applying glaze at:
http://www.mm.com/mnclayus/glaze.html
The third address I'll throw at you is a page that contains a tiny
little video demo of dipping a mug. I think you'll need Netscape or
Explorer to see the file.
http://www.mm.com/mnclayus/dipping.html
There are other glaze related stories scattered throughout the site.
Best Wishes,
Bob Stryker
Minnesota Clay USA
http://www.mm.com/mnclayus/
freewill on fri 10 oct 97
I have to respone to this one, because despite his lousy attitude toward
making a living, I have one of the finest teachers-of-the-technical
aspects-of-potting whom I have ever seen.
And glazing is fully covered. We have "class" glazes, of course, but we
are encouraged to experiment with glaze formulas (no matter where we find
them/invent them, whatever). In fact everyone is supposed to make up three
"test" (100g) batches per semester, and those tests get passed around and
if anyone comes up with a glaze that the class likes, we'll make up a
large batch.
The students are the ones that mix up the "class" glazes, from the prof's
recipes, they don't just appear magically overnight. There isn't a lot of
detail given about what each ingredient DOES, exactly, unless you go up
after class and ask. If you do, there is a fount of information,("yes,
that's an opacifier, not a colorant." "ok, that's a flux. it changes the
melting temperature of the glaze...") and a lot of encouragement to "try
it and see what happens".
As for actually applying the glazes, that's a whole day's lecture/demo. We
use wax on a hotplate for resist. We're not only shown how to protect the
bottoms of things with it, but also a few ways to decorate with it. We're
shown how to dip and pour and how thick the glazes should be and how to
twist your arm around smoothly so that you don't get a drip. (Well, the
prof can "not get a drip".) And how to smooth with your finger where you
DO get a drip. We don't really talk about airbrushing, or techniques to
glaze very large forms, but I think that's because, to be blunt, no one
makes anything very big. He puts a lot of emphasis on applying the glazes
well, though from what I can see, most of every class ignores him. Most
students want to put it on so thick it flakes off, in garish combinations.
Oh well.
Anyhow, I just wanted to let you guys know that there IS a program out
there that teaches this stuff. I'd imagine Pete's (Pinnell) program in
Lincoln is real strong on glazing too. I hear he's a wizard. Of course,
all of his classes meet during the middle of the freakin' day so us
working stiffs can't get away to take them. Looks like I'll just have to
quit my day job. :-)
Have fun....
jenni
jlexau@cwis.unomaha.edu
Karl P. Platt on fri 10 oct 97
Setting aside those who are studying ceramics casually........
Since how the stuff (glaze/engobe/lustre,etc.) goes on is explicitly
related to how it is made, and what it is made of -- and this in turn tied
to how it is transformed in the fire, it seems that the approach to
understanding how it all goes really needs to be given a more "wholistic"
treatment.
freewill on fri 10 oct 97
Oh! One more thing....a positively brilliant technique that I picked up
from Sam (studio assistant extraordinaire) Harvey at Anderson Ranch...
If you do glaze drawing/decorating and really wish you could
"sketch" your design onto the pot, just do that, using FOOD COLORING to
sketch with!
Sam did this over a base coat of glaze, but it would also work without
that base layer (in case you decorate, and then put a clear glaze over it
or something.) He preferred to develop his complex designs ON the actual
piece instead of in (pencil-on-paper) drawings or something. He'd sketch
and change and redraw in the food color (till I about couldn't tell which
lines went where, but I guess he could) and then he'd draw over the parts
of the design he liked with the actual glaze. The pigment in food coloring
burns out entirely, of course, so you don't see it at all after firing.
*Very* clever, I thought. Enjoy!
jenni
jlexau@cwis.unomaha.edu
Karen Gringhuis on fri 10 oct 97
Greg - Unique concept coming up - STUDENTS HAVE RIGHTS & NEED NOT BE
PASSIVE. If you're not getting glazing demos or info., ASK FOR WHAT
YOU WANT. Does ISU have any ceramic grad students? If yes, go
get them & ask politely for HELP. If none of this works, band
together (perhaps you already have a student group) & find a local
potter who hopefully knows how to do what you want to learn &
organize a workshop bringing them to campus. (Yes, you may have
to raise some $ for this.) Clue them in in advance as to your
concerns. Maybe this will wake up your faculty enough to change
(!) things. Karen Gringhuis
douglas gray on sat 11 oct 97
In message "douglas gray" writes:
> In message writes:
> > Thank you, that does help, some. When I dunk it, how do I avoid the drips
> > that always seem to end up down the sides or around the rims?
>
> I forgot to mention that after dunking the pots, lets say your holding it by
> the foot ring, I hold it upside down for a few seconds, letting the remainder
> drip back into the bucket. I always give it a good shake too. This seems to
> get rid of all the excess, so that when i turn it right side up there are no
> drips to run down the side.
>
> Another trick I've used it to keep a clean, soft, wet brush near by.
> Sometimes you can brush those drips away before the glaze dries. Be careful
> not to push too hard and wipe away the glaze, exposing the pot.
>
> One other thing. I always glaze the inside and outside of pots in two
> seperate steps. First glaze the interior: pour glaze into the form, then
> twist the form in a circular manner as you pour the glaze out. Wipe of any
> drips that run down the outside of the pot. Allow this coat to dry. Add a
> second coat if needed, let it dry. Then glaze the outside of the pot: I
> usually hold it by the base, or the foot ring if it's big enough, so that the
> openning of the form faces the floor. Then, with a cup I pour the glaze over
> the outside. Again if you can rotate the form as you pour, and can get all
> the way around the form before the glaze starts to dry, you don't get any
> over lapping areas. Then give it a good shake to get rid of the excess.
>
> hope this makes more sense. I wasn't thinking too clearly when I responsed
> last night.
>
> doug
=========================================================================== =)
Douglas E. Gray
Assistant Professor of Art, Ceramics
Francis Marion Univeristy
Florence, South Carolina 29501
dgray@fmarion.edu
Gordon on sat 11 oct 97
original
snip..." He'd sketch and change and redraw in the food color and then he'd
draw over the parts of the design he liked with the actual glaze."
I've also see this done with red ink. It also burns out in the
firing so you can plan on the greenware or bisqued piece and leave no trace
behind.
I've used all brands of red ink and found this to be true.
"If things seem under control you are not going fast enough"
Mario Andretti
Kathleen Gordon
Palo Alto,Ca
email:emgordon@batnet.com
voice:650-328-9164
Tadeusz Westawic on sun 12 oct 97
My first teacher in the mid 70's was a graduate of Alfred and student of
Rhodes.
For second year ceramic students he occasionally offered Glaze Chem I &
II. He did this he said, only when he felt that 8 or 10 of his students
could understand the math. To me, "understanding the math" is a salient
point in this thread on "why isn't glaze chem taught more widely?"
Now, from here I gould gripe about low acceptance standards at American
universities. Or I could tell a personal story about being battered by
teachers in grade school for poor math performance and developing "math
block", only to find years later that I have a real gift for the
mathematical sciences. Instead, I want to relate a parable about
education, one that I'll be making-up from a story I heard years ago.
In the ages before the invention of printing devices that made books
affordable and available, students were required to memorize the
literary and religious classics available (Iliad, Odyssey, Bible,
Quaran, etc). The need to employ this methodology was obvious because
books were extremely rare, hand-reproduced treasures. Very few people
had access to books, and the obvious practical course toward "knowing"
the material was to memorize it.
Affordable copies of books brought a new paradigm of thought. It was no
longer necessary for the student or scholar to memorize content, but
instead build a mental index reference of where, in what books, specific
knowlege was recorded. This was the birth of the Reference Library.
But in that time (as in this), there was an entrenched, conservative
"old guard". They believed that the race would deteriorate and
disintegrate because the studendts "weren't memorizing". Can you hear
the echoes of their warnings? Of course, we know today that the race did
not disintegrate, for here we are, alive and well!
There is strong debate today in primary and secondary education in
America over the use of calculators in the math classroom. We greyhaired
folks among you remember the trials of learning math by rote. The
concepts of multiplication and division were not hard to grasp, but the
tedious and sometimes traumatic effort of learning long division and
long multiplication, fractions, and the dreaded Algebra have left a mark
on many of us. One side of today's debate says to allow the calculators
and teach the students to conceptualize. The other side says "The
students aren't memorizing! The students aren't memorizing. Corruption
and disintegration to us all!"
There is no right or wrong here. Conservatives are the ballast that
society needs to prevent it from making too many mistakes in too short a
time. Innovation is what society needs to progress. So change comes
slowly, and the future can be plotted with somewhat less anxiety.
FINALLY, MY POINT.
With the advent of the personal computer, we have the opportunity to
present the topic of glaze chemistry conceptually and let the machines
do the number-crunching. Many of the threads in this forum that address
glaze chemistry try to address concepts. What is a glass, what is a
flux, what is a stabilizer or colorant and how can we expect proportions
of each to relate to a finished piece. Others are far to technical for
general understanding. I think educators in ceramics would quickly come
to use such a tool once the innovators provided it. We need
teaching-learning material that would emphasize concept more than ever
before, then relate the concepts to graphical abstracts (ie charts,
graphs, etc) and actual result, and then how to run the software.
So, you rare people out there with vision, and who know the conceptual
and the technical territory well, how about it? And you rare educators
who are willing to risk, how about it?
Tadzu -- in SW New Mexico at 6000 feet at that time of year where one
needs to carry a change of overshirt when travelling to the lowlands or
back.
Richard Harris on wed 15 oct 97
> > ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Maybe I have missed it but I really do not
> > see much attention paid to the actual technique of applying glaze.
>
This is just one little thing that i have found useful to prevent the
drips that form from the rim of the item when you are dipping using
tongs, which works for small to med items that can be held easily with
the tongs. Keep a damp sponge near at hand, when you dip the item,
after you bring it out of the glaze, and while it is still inverted over
the glaze bucket to drain, a small glob of liquid glaze will hang there,
refusing to drop back into the bucket, so just touch the sponge to the
drip, not to the item, just the drop of liquid glaze, and it will pull
it off, so when you invert the item, it won't be there to run down the
side of the mug, or whatever. :)
Michelle
heorot@sk. sympatico.ca
the cat lady on fri 17 oct 97
>Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:55:50
>To: heorot@sk.sympatico.ca
>From: the cat lady
>Subject: Re: Glazing Techniques
>
>
>> This is just one little thing that i have found useful to prevent the
>>drips that form from the rim of the item when you are dipping using
>>tongs, which works for small to med items that can be held easily with
>>the tongs. Keep a damp sponge near at hand, when you dip the item,
>>after you bring it out of the glaze, and while it is still inverted over
>>the glaze bucket to drain, a small glob of liquid glaze will hang there,
>>refusing to drop back into the bucket, so just touch the sponge to the
>>drip, not to the item, just the drop of liquid glaze, and it will pull
>>it off, so when you invert the item, it won't be there to run down the
>>side of the mug, or whatever. :)
>>
>>
>
>A little trick I learned (thank you Chris Snedden) is
>as you remove the item from the bucket (with tongs)
>is to blow on the drips. This disperses them thinly
>enough that even the most "nasty" glaze doesn't show
>overlaps (he's a majolica worker).
>
>
sam - alias the cat lady
Melbourne, Ontario
SW Ontario CANADA
http://www.geocities.com/paris/3110
Martin Schiller on sun 19 oct 97
>>Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:55:50
>>To: heorot@sk.sympatico.ca
>>From: the cat lady
>>Subject: Re: Glazing Techniques
Speaking of the subject. This place (list) ain't showed me much
lustre......
And also a question. Does anyone glaze their bisque by dipping in
saturated solutions of soluble salts?
Wilkinson on sat 25 oct 97
When I asked the list about glazing techniques and mentioned I felt it was
not covered much in the classes I have taken, I was referring to the actual
technique of applying the glaze to various pieces NOT to glaze chemistry.
That has never been a problem. In fact, I found the instructors really
quit generous in that area.
Lori Wilkinson
Roswell NM
LorWilk@dfn.com
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/1165
Don Goodrich on mon 27 oct 97
Lori,
>...about glazing techniques ...not covered much in the classes I have
taken, ...referring to the actual technique of applying the glaze to various
pieces...<
I've had this problem too, but alleviated it by going to one of the
greenware shops that focus on the application of commercial low-fire glazes
and taking a few lessons there. Learned a lot about brush technique, china
paint, and a little about airbrushing. Teacher seemed surprised that a
clay-oriented potter (rather than a slip-caster) would deign to come to such
a place, but I figure if the college ceramics professor isn't forthcoming
with the info, go where the experience is. Since the focus is, after all, on
decoration (the form having been decided by the moldmakers), one can find
some skilled practitioners of glaze technique in the shops.
Don Goodrich in cold, wet, windy but still green Zion, Illinois
Stuart Altmann on fri 7 nov 97
Several Clayarters have complained about inadequate training in techniques
for applying glazes. Training by someone knowledgeable in this, as in most
other techinical skills, is often the best way, but lacking that, much can
be learned from the literature.
On this ceramic topic as on several others, the most useful material that I
have seen was written by Colbeck. His recent book "Pottery Materials"
(London, Batsford, 239 pp., 25 pounds) includes an extensive section on
glazing by dipping and pouring, of everthing from small tiles and bowls up
to quite large vessels.
Stuart Altmann
Judy Musicant on sun 9 apr 00
To Joy Holdread,
I generally use one glaze for the inside of a pot, and another for the
outside. I like to glaze the inside first, so that if I mess up and get
drips on the outside, I can clean it off easily. I have found that if I try
to glaze the whole pot in one day, the outside will not take a thick enough
coat of glaze, as it will be damp from the inside having been glazed
earlier. Accordingly, I try to glaze over 2 days. That way, the outside is
completely dry before applying the glaze. This has worked well for me, and
may help solve your flaking problems.
Judy
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