JMELCHIO@VUNET.VINU.EDU on sat 23 nov 96
In addition to potting, I have also adopted a river. I have, over time,
learned a lot about the problems associated with dumping even relatively small
quantities of heavy metals like lead and mercury into the water supply. It
seems to me that the major offenders are industry, but these chemicals bioaccum
ulate, get into the food chain, and have some pretty terrible long term effects
.. I think we all need to be aware of these things, and do what we can to keep
unsafe substances out of our drinking water (as well as our soil and air__the
sludge from the sewage treatment plants is routinely applied to farmland, and
impurities in air fall back down to poison soil and water.) When there weren't
so many humans, these things weren't the problem that they've become, and will
continue to be as human populations increase. Some watersheds are more
stressed than others, and it's good to know where our water comes from, where
it's been, and where it goes when we're finished with it. Several seemingly
insignificant sources of pollution can add up to a major problem. I don't use
known poisons, but would like to know more about how to run a clean show.
Kirk Morrison on sun 24 nov 96
On 23 Nov 96 at 10:18, JMELCHIO@VUNET.VINU.EDU wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> In addition to potting, I have also adopted a river. I have, over time,
> learned a lot about the problems associated with dumping even relatively small
> quantities of heavy metals like lead and mercury into the water supply. It
> seems to me that the major offenders are industry, but these chemicals bioaccu
> ulate, get into the food chain, and have some pretty terrible long term effect
> . I think we all need to be aware of these things, and do what we can to keep
> unsafe substances out of our drinking water (as well as our soil and air__the
> sludge from the sewage treatment plants is routinely applied to farmland, and
> impurities in air fall back down to poison soil and water.)
While I agree with most of what you say up to this point here you are
out of you element. Most, not all but 99% of modern Water Pollution
Control Plant, remove heavy metals and either bury them in land fills
or the solids removed are further treated and the heavy metals removed.
The method of removal are ion attraction, via polymers. Heavy metals
applied to soil are not a problem, and since composting the sludge has
start the problems with infection have totally disappeared from land
application. Also most states still limit the application of Sludge
from Water Pollution Control plants to non human crops due to problems
that occured in the 1950's and early 60's in every state that has
reviewed it in the last 8 years, they have removed the limits. Remember
100 years ago the state of the art was to dump untreated waste into a
river. Things have moved on alot since then and since the 70's when my
father worked in the field things have moved on alot and my brother
works in the field and things have changed massively since he went to
work in the field in the 80's. Hence all the proffessional licenses.
Here in VA the amount of study for a Class one license with a few other
courses will get you fairly close to a B.S. degree. The method of
classifing licenses varies from state to state but most of the licenses
are fairly close. I believe in NY the equiv of a class one in VA is
Called a Class 4
Kirk
When there weren't
> so many humans, these things weren't the problem that they've become, and wil
> continue to be as human populations increase. Some watersheds are more
> stressed than others, and it's good to know where our water comes from, where
> it's been, and where it goes when we're finished with it. Several seemingly
> insignificant sources of pollution can add up to a major problem. I don't use
> known poisons, but would like to know more about how to run a clean show.
>
Call your local water pollution control plant, they can tell you what
they treat for and if the chemicals you use will stress the plant.
With alot of chems you can purchase recovery units also. these are
fairly safe and effective and inexpensive to very expensive. Most
plants can handle what will come from a potters shop, because of the
dillution and the fact that they are treating for similar chemicals as
normal household waste.
Kirk
Suzanne Storer on mon 25 nov 96
Caring for our earth, especially as clay people, is an important topic. Can
anyone recommend methods for operating a studio (using heavy metals in their
glazes) in a manner that is environmentally friendly? For instance when I
clean my brushes of oxides I could collect the waste water laden with the
metals. Then I could evaporate off most of the water and finally fire the
metals in a clay bowl made for that purpose making them less of a pollutant
before throwing it in the trash can. Of course recycling each color for
reuse by initially washing out the brush in a jar of wash water used solely
for that color would allow recycling what would have become waste. One
could evaporate out the water and use it later. Perhaps Karl Pratt could
let us know what is done in industry about this problem.
I think we potters, as much as any group of people, have a true love for
this earth and this situation of contributing to its pollution at the same
time many of us are celebrating its virtues is an ongoing problem. Your
message has spurred me to put thinking into action. Thank you!
Any other suggestions to minimize pollution? I think Kirks reply that most
of the metals are taken out by most sewage waste treatment facilities is
helpful but far better to check the problem closer to its source.
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>In addition to potting, I have also adopted a river. I have, over time,
>learned a lot about the problems associated with dumping even relatively small
>quantities of heavy metals like lead and mercury into the water supply. It
>seems to me that the major offenders are industry, but these chemicals bioaccum
>ulate, get into the food chain, and have some pretty terrible long term effects
>. I think we all need to be aware of these things, and do what we can to keep
>unsafe substances out of our drinking water (as well as our soil and air__the
>sludge from the sewage treatment plants is routinely applied to farmland, and
>impurities in air fall back down to poison soil and water.) When there weren't
> so many humans, these things weren't the problem that they've become, and will
> continue to be as human populations increase. Some watersheds are more
>stressed than others, and it's good to know where our water comes from, where
>it's been, and where it goes when we're finished with it. Several seemingly
>insignificant sources of pollution can add up to a major problem. I don't use
>known poisons, but would like to know more about how to run a clean show.
>
Kirk Morrison on tue 26 nov 96
On 25 Nov 96 at 8:26, Suzanne Storer wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Caring for our earth, especially as clay people, is an important topic. Can
> anyone recommend methods for operating a studio (using heavy metals in their
> glazes) in a manner that is environmentally friendly? For instance when I
> clean my brushes of oxides I could collect the waste water laden with the
> metals. Then I could evaporate off most of the water and finally fire the
> metals in a clay bowl made for that purpose making them less of a pollutant
> before throwing it in the trash can. Of course recycling each color for
> reuse by initially washing out the brush in a jar of wash water used solely
> for that color would allow recycling what would have become waste. One
> could evaporate out the water and use it later. Perhaps Karl Pratt could
> let us know what is done in industry about this problem.
> I think we potters, as much as any group of people, have a true love for
> this earth and this situation of contributing to its pollution at the same
> time many of us are celebrating its virtues is an ongoing problem. Your
> message has spurred me to put thinking into action. Thank you!
> Any other suggestions to minimize pollution? I think Kirks reply that most
> of the metals are taken out by most sewage waste treatment facilities is
> helpful but far better to check the problem closer to its source.
>
The two best thing to do are 1) call solid waste managment in your
area and findout what they do about heavy metals 2) the individual
recycling would be best but awful time and space consuming would be
optimium. the other would allow for some weird off gasing or really
really toxic gas release.
Kirk
tony clennell on sat 10 oct 09
I thought I'd explain my analogy between sex and heavy metals. You can
teach safe good sex, or bad sex but you can't pretend that there is
no such thing as sex. People will find out that sex exists and barium
, and manganese etc. If we on Clayart wipe them off the pages of our
best ceramic journals then we are just asking for people to use them
unwisely.
the case of manganese always comes back to David Shaner. David was a
very bright materials man. So I understand it he made the mistake of
firing his kiln with glazes full of heavy metal within breathing
distance of his work space. He has passed on and passed on this
information to us. We now know to vent our kilns. He never said stop
using the material just to use it wisely. We on Clayart are a ceramic
journal and need to make sure this information is available to our
members.
In the same way that Mel is making an effort to protect craftsmanship,
teach people to make their own tools, use saws and machinery safely,
clays, glazes, kilns etc I think it equally important to teach people
how to use materials (all of them) safely. Let's not hide them and say
they don't exist in our glaze labs. They do exist and used safely will
create beautiful glazes not possible without them.
I was encouraged to read Dave F say that lead glazes can be perfectly
stable and acceptable. I was standing with Dave at Nceca when his
primary prof from Alfred came and gave him his acceptance interview
for his Masters of Ceramics Engineering at Alfred U. Home of Danny
Rhodes. Danny's book is still vital. It has been updated by Robin
Hopper and should probably be done again with all the new information
we have. Thank heavens the heavy metal has remained on the pages.
The most dangerous thing in my workshop is my chainsaw. I wear hard
hat, face shield, ear muffs, leather boots and should wear chain link
chaps. I know I should! A younger me wore Birkenstocks, shorts, no
shirt. Just so you all know I'm not the sharpest pencil in the pack.
Happy Thanksgiving weekend here in Canada. We have lots to be thankful for.
Cheers,
Tony
--
http://sourcherrypottery.com
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
Lee Love on sat 10 oct 09
It is good to stay away from Lead, barium and manganese in communal
studios. When Northern Clay Center was in St. Paul, I recall walking
into the chemicals room and saw students mixing up Raku glazes for
functional ware. A student, not wearing a mask, was emptying a back
of lead into a bucket, and the dust was flying in the air.
These materials can be used by folks that know what they are
doing. I don't see any reason to use them in my pots. We have so
many other choices. In my lowfire work, I am getting good color
response with modern frits and I do not need to use lead in them.
We have so many choices as modern potters. We have to make
arbitrary choices to keep our focus.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
James Freeman on sat 10 oct 09
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 8:56 AM, tony clennell wro=
te:
the case of manganese always comes back to David Shaner.
Tony...
Great posts.
Anyway, as I understand it, Shaner (whom I greatly respect on many levels)
died of ALS; Lou Gehrig's Disease. Though he very definitely believed that
it stemmed from manganese exposure, there is no medical causal link between
the two. It is human nature to look for culprits when hit over the head by
such a diagnosis, but in this he was just wrong. Understandable though.
Here is a snippet from the medical literature that shows quite the opposite
of Shaner's contention:
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Title
Heavy metal concentrations in blood cells in patients with amyotrophic
lateral sclerosis.
Author
Nagata H; Miyata S; Nakamura S; Kameyama M; Katsui Y
Source
J Neurol Sci, 67(2):173-8 1985 Feb
Abstract
Manganese (Mn) and selenium (Se) concentrations in blood cells were measure=
d
by neutron activation analysis. Blood was obtained from patients with
amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), patients with other neurological
diseases and control subjects. Dried blood cells were activated by neutron
irradiation. Mn was determined after chemical separation and Se was
determined nondestructively. Mn concentrations in blood cells from ALS
patients were significantly lower (P less than 0.01) than those from the
other groups. The Mn concentrations were also significantly lower (P less
than 0.01) in late than in earlier stages of ALS. Se concentrations in bloo=
d
cells from ALS patients were significantly higher (P less than 0.01)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Manganese use can lead to a terrible condition called manganism, but this
is extremely rare even amongst welders, who huff WAY more manganese, way
more chronically, than we ever will. Though there have been a number of
lawsuits against employers and welding supply manufacturers, no scientific
study has ever shown a causal link even between welding and manganism. You=
r
drinking water and your car exhaust are probably your most dangerous source=
s
of exposure.
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
Eva Gallagher on sat 10 oct 09
There is also a big difference between lead, cadmium - that is the heavy
metals and barium. Lead and cadmium build up in the body over time so small
exposures can amount to a toxic dose eventually in the body. (The biologica=
l
half life in bone for lead is about 10 years and for cadmium is 30 years an=
d
it is these long half lives that make lead and cadmium so dangerous.)
However this is not the case with barium (at least that is my
understanding - Eduoard please correct me if I am wrong). With barium if a
small amount is ingested it will be expelled relatively quickly with no
effects as the biological half life of barium is approximately 2 to 20
HOURS. So it is impossible to build up a toxic dose in the body from
ingesting small amounts over days and months. Remember that barium is often
added to clays to prevent scumming.
What you do have to worry about is not to ingest any in amounts close to th=
e
toxic dose. (And that would really have to be done deliberately.) Although
barium is insoluble in water, it becomes soluble in the acid environment of
your stomach and so can then be absorbed. A toxic dose of barium is quite
small I think - about a few grams or even less. So you do not eat in your
studio and you wear a respirator when mixing or spraying glazes and clean u=
p
after glazing, and make sure that animals or unsupervised children do not
have access to your studio - all basic common sense.
Eva Gallagher
Deep River, Ontario
http://stevenhilljourneyworkshopjuly2008.blogspot.com/
- Original Message -----
From: "James Freeman"
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 8:56 AM, tony clennell
> wrote:
>
> the case of manganese always comes back to David Shaner.
>
>
> Tony...
>
> Great posts.
>
> Anyway, as I understand it, Shaner (whom I greatly respect on many levels=
)
> died of ALS; Lou Gehrig's Disease. Though he very definitely believed
> that
> it stemmed from manganese exposure, there is no medical causal link
> between
> the two. It is human nature to look for culprits when hit over the head
> by
> such a diagnosis, but in this he was just wrong. Understandable though.
>
://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
>
>
David Woof on sat 10 oct 09
Hi James=3D2C What if the brain cells of these people have taken up more=
o=3D
f the manganese and therefore it does not show up in the blood at the same =
=3D
levels as the other groups? Doesn't it seem unusual that this group woul=
=3D
d have a lower concentration than those from the same population and enviro=
=3D
nment?
=3D20
David Woof
=3D20
Peering over the edge=3D2C reverently taking an irreverent look at everythi=
ng=3D
.
=3D20
=3D20
=3D20
Reading below:<< Mn concentrations in blood cells from ALS
patients were significantly lower (P less than 0.01) than those from the
other groups.>>
________________________________________________________________________
10c. Re: heavy metals
Posted by: "James Freeman" jamesfreemanstudio@GMAIL.COM=3D20
Date: Sat Oct 10=3D2C 2009 10:26 am ((PDT))
=3D20
On Sat=3D2C Oct 10=3D2C 2009 at 8:56 AM=3D2C tony clennell mail.c=3D
om>wrote:
=3D20
the case of manganese always comes back to David Shaner.
=3D20
=3D20
Tony...
=3D20
Great posts.
=3D20
Anyway=3D2C as I understand it=3D2C Shaner (whom I greatly respect on many =
leve=3D
ls)
died of ALS=3D3B Lou Gehrig's Disease. Though he very definitely believed t=
ha=3D
t
it stemmed from manganese exposure=3D2C there is no medical causal link bet=
we=3D
en
the two. It is human nature to look for culprits when hit over the head by
such a diagnosis=3D2C but in this he was just wrong. Understandable though.
=3D20
Here is a snippet from the medical literature that shows quite the opposite
of Shaner's contention:
=3D20
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
Title
Heavy metal concentrations in blood cells in patients with amyotrophic
lateral sclerosis.
Author
Nagata H=3D3B Miyata S=3D3B Nakamura S=3D3B Kameyama M=3D3B Katsui Y
Source
J Neurol Sci=3D2C 67(2):173-8 1985 Feb
Abstract
=3D20
Manganese (Mn) and selenium (Se) concentrations in blood cells were measure=
=3D
d
by neutron activation analysis. Blood was obtained from patients with
amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS)=3D2C patients with other neurological
diseases and control subjects. Dried blood cells were activated by neutron
irradiation. Mn was determined after chemical separation and Se was
determined nondestructively. Mn concentrations in blood cells from ALS
patients were significantly lower (P less than 0.01) than those from the
other groups. The Mn concentrations were also significantly lower (P less
than 0.01) in late than in earlier stages of ALS. Se concentrations in bloo=
=3D
d
cells from ALS patients were significantly higher (P less than 0.01)
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
=3D20
=3D0A=3D
_________________________________________________________________=3D0A=3D
Hotmail: Free=3D2C trusted and rich email service.=3D0A=3D
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/=3D
Neon-Cat on sat 10 oct 09
The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) is a good, han=
dy, up-to-date resource for information:
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/search.html
(try the A-Z Index at top of page)
Marian
Neon-Cat
David Woof on sat 10 oct 09
Hi everyone=3D2C
In controled studies ingesting the herb cilantro has been proven to lower t=
=3D
he levels of heavy metals in the blood of humans. In these studies the ba=
=3D
se line was established by measuring levels in both blood and urine before =
=3D
begining consumption of measured amounts of cilantro over a number of days.=
=3D
=3D20
=3D20
The increasing levels of heavy metals in the urine corresponded to lowering=
=3D
levels in the blood until both levels began their decline to a cleansed co=
=3D
ndition.
=3D20
I Googled these studies=3D2C and they could be lies=3D2C consult your frien=
dly =3D
AMA trained Medical professional Now. This is not medical advice.
=3D20
While I handle all potential toxins with responsible care and have safe goo=
=3D
d sex with my clean and sweet sweetie=3D2C I refuse to let fear rule my lif=
e.
=3D20
The really dangerous things aren't in the studio and what we fear is most o=
=3D
ften what will kill us.
=3D20
I "eat" Cilantro in my home pressed vegie juice. Drink Essiac tea regularly=
=3D
and have good thoughts with good friends.
=3D20
It is reported that Essiac tea has anti-tumor and anti-viral properties as =
=3D
well as blood cleansing agents and immune system boosters.
=3D20
What flue? what flue shot? What else will those who wish to control us inv=
=3D
ent to keep the fearful masses off balance.
=3D20
This is how I have lived for years BUT this is not intended to be shared or=
=3D
given as Medical Advice. You could DIE living as I do!! the dancing all =
=3D
nite could stop your fearful heart!!! Consult your physician NOW. =3D20
=3D20
Now watch me get hit by a truck tomorrow after all this crowing and huff-pu=
=3D
ffin!!!
=3D20
Love=3D2C
=3D20
David
Eat the best food you can find=3D2C drink the finest wine you can afford=3D=
2C l=3D
ove someone special often=3D2C and let your heart sing as you find your wor=
k =3D
ever challenging=3D2C ever developing. =3D20
=3D0A=3D
_________________________________________________________________=3D0A=3D
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.=3D0A=3D
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/=3D
Maurice Weitman on sun 11 oct 09
At 21:59 -0500 on 10/11/09, Taylor Hendrix wrote:
>[...] I hated to see
>all that scrap lumber and metal and plastic containers go but I can't
>even turn around to scratch my ass when I'm in the garagio
You Texans... in the enlightened Northeast, we've evolved to being
able to scratch everything we need without the need to turn around.
Maybe that comes with the ability to throw lefty on a wheel spinning
anti-clockworth.
Ask Vince.
Just don't eat or drink anything in that garage. In the name of all
that's flocculated.
Regards,
Maurice, in sunny (well, it was during daylight, wiseass) New Paltz,
New Yawk, where today my gimping bride and I took her first and my
fourth walk across the world's longest pedestrian bridge
to view America's River (don't shoot the
messenger -- I didn't write the book, I just read it), fabulous fall
colors among the trees lining the river, and thousands of locals
enjoying the views.
And we won't talk about the damn Yankees, who are playing right into
our hands by eliminating the hapless Twinkies and hasbeen Sawx so
that my Dodgers can wup them in the Series. Just like 1955. Bring
'em on!
Des & Jan Howard on sun 11 oct 09
David
Then again ALS sufferers may have a deficiency of
necessary manganese, from an inability to take up the
requisite amount for bodily needs.
Des
David Woof wrote:
> What if the brain cells of these people have taken
> up more of the manganese and therefore it does not show up in the
> blood at the same levels as the other groups?
> Doesn't it seem unusual that this group would have a
> lower concentration than those from the same population and environment?
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
John Hesselberth on sun 11 oct 09
On Oct 10, 2009, at 6:22 PM, Des & Jan Howard wrote:
> One of our local towns has for decades used ground
> water as its water supply. It is high enough in
> manganese to put clots of it into the washing machine
> water causing much annoyance to house holders.
> Annoyance, but no mention ever of harmful effects on
> the townspeople
Ingesting something is usually much different than inhaling it.
Manganese is in every multivitamin. It is the lungs that can't handle
it.
Regards,
John
Gwynneth Rixon on sun 11 oct 09
For those who were wondering over here...cilantro =3D3D coriander.
I use a lot anyway- just harvested the seeds for next year's crop
Gwynneth
> Date: Sat=3D2C 10 Oct 2009 21:03:37 -0600
> From: woofpots@HOTMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: heavy metals
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>=3D20
> Hi everyone=3D2C
>=3D20
> In controled studies ingesting the herb cilantro has been proven to lower=
=3D
the levels of heavy metals in the blood of humans. In these studies the =
=3D
base line was established by measuring levels in both blood and urine befor=
=3D
e begining consumption of measured amounts of cilantro over a number of day=
=3D
s. =3D20
>=3D20
> =3D20
>=3D20
> The increasing levels of heavy metals in the urine corresponded to loweri=
=3D
ng levels in the blood until both levels began their decline to a cleansed =
=3D
condition.
>=3D20
> =3D20
>=3D20
> I Googled these studies=3D2C and they could be lies=3D2C consult your fri=
endl=3D
y AMA trained Medical professional Now. This is not medical advice.
>=3D20
> =3D20
>=3D20
> While I handle all potential toxins with responsible care and have safe g=
=3D
ood sex with my clean and sweet sweetie=3D2C I refuse to let fear rule my l=
if=3D
e.
>=3D20
> =3D20
>=3D20
> The really dangerous things aren't in the studio and what we fear is most=
=3D
often what will kill us.
>=3D20
> =3D20
>=3D20
> I "eat" Cilantro in my home pressed vegie juice. Drink Essiac tea regular=
=3D
ly and have good thoughts with good friends.
>=3D20
> =3D20
>=3D20
> It is reported that Essiac tea has anti-tumor and anti-viral properties a=
=3D
s well as blood cleansing agents and immune system boosters.
>=3D20
> =3D20
>=3D20
> What flue? what flue shot? What else will those who wish to control us i=
=3D
nvent to keep the fearful masses off balance.
>=3D20
> =3D20
>=3D20
> This is how I have lived for years BUT this is not intended to be shared =
=3D
or given as Medical Advice. You could DIE living as I do!! the dancing al=
=3D
l nite could stop your fearful heart!!! Consult your physician NOW. =3D2=
0
>=3D20
> =3D20
>=3D20
> Now watch me get hit by a truck tomorrow after all this crowing and huff-=
=3D
puffin!!!
>=3D20
> =3D20
>=3D20
> Love=3D2C
>=3D20
> =3D20
>=3D20
> David
>=3D20
> Eat the best food you can find=3D2C drink the finest wine you can afford=
=3D2C=3D
love someone special often=3D2C and let your heart sing as you find your w=
or=3D
k ever challenging=3D2C ever developing. =3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> =3D20
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
=3D0A=3D
_________________________________________________________________=3D0A=3D
Use Hotmail to send and receive mail from your different email accounts.=3D=
0A=3D
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/167688463/direct/01/=3D
Des & Jan Howard on sun 11 oct 09
John
James commented on no causal link between inhaled
manganese fumes from welding & manganism. I was
including an observation that water ingestion of
manganese doesn't appear to negatively affect
people either.
Des
John Hesselberth wrote:
> Ingesting something is usually much different than inhaling it.
> Manganese is in every multivitamin. It is the lungs that can't handle
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
Lee Love on sun 11 oct 09
On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Des & Jan Howard wr=
ote:
> David
> Then again ALS sufferers may have a deficiency of
> necessary manganese, from an inability to take up the
> requisite amount for bodily needs.
Interesting. Got any citations?
BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy), ALS Amyotrophic lateral
sclerosis and Alzheimer's are associated with Copper deficiency.
Copper is used in our neural system. Manganese displaces Copper and
disrupts the electrical paths.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
Lee Love on sun 11 oct 09
http://tinyurl.com/copperdef
Abstract: Copper deficiency and neurological disorders in man and
animals Including Alzhymers, ASL and BSE
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
James Freeman on sun 11 oct 09
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 9:52 PM, David Woof wrote:
Hi James, What if the brain cells of these people have taken up more of
the manganese and therefore it does not show up in the blood at the same
levels as the other groups? Doesn't it seem unusual that this group woul=
d
have a lower concentration than those from the same population and
environment?
Hi, David...
I can't speak to your what-if, as I am not a toxicologist, biologist, or
neuro-anything. Bill Merrill got me interested in Shaner a year or two ago
during a very enlightening off-list conversation. After reading a lengthy
article that he suggested from an old issue of Studio Potter, I became
curious about Shaner's contention that manganese caused his condition.
Since another of my heroes, the theoretical physicist Steven Hawking, was
also stricken with ALS, I decided to look into it. I read tons of scholarl=
y
stuff online, and could not find anything implicating manganese. This is
not to say that there isn't any such proven link, but I certainly could not
find it. The only mentions I found showed what looked to my layman's eyes
like a deficiency rather than an excess. Also, one wonders how, if it were
so simple, all of our medical scientists could have missed it? If the caus=
e
was known, and if it were something as simple as manganese exposure, then
certainly someone would have pursued this avenue and cured or prevented the
condition.
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
Lee Love on sun 11 oct 09
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 10:03 PM, David Woof wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> In controled studies ingesting the herb cilantro has been proven to lower=
the levels of heavy metals
So does zinc suppliments.
--
Lee Love, Minneapolis
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
full essay: http://togeika.multiply.com/journal/item/273/
Des & Jan Howard on sun 11 oct 09
James
One of our local towns has for decades used ground
water as its water supply. It is high enough in
manganese to put clots of it into the washing machine
water causing much annoyance to house holders.
Annoyance, but no mention ever of harmful effects on
the townspeople.
Des
James Freeman wrote:
> Though there have been a number of
> lawsuits against employers and welding supply manufacturers, no scientifi=
c
> study has ever shown a causal link even between welding and manganism. Y=
our
> drinking water and your car exhaust are probably your most dangerous sour=
ces
> of exposure.
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
Taylor Hendrix on sun 11 oct 09
Now I'm sure Tony has lost it if he's trying to explain himself to this lot=
=3D
.
I'm grateful, though, because it's been a solid year of home
improvement for me and I've forgotten what sex is...or clay for that
matter. Wait a second, DON'T enlighten me, Tony. I'd rather teach
myself. shave and a hair cut...
The beautiful Dr. Hendrix and I have spent the day piling up flotsam
removed from the garagio. It will all go to the dump. I hated to see
all that scrap lumber and metal and plastic containers go but I can't
even turn around to scratch my ass when I'm in the garagio it has
become so full of stuff I "could use later." The mantra during the day
became if you can't tell me exactly what project you are going to use
this for, I'm going to pitch it. And pitch it we did. I have at least
3 truck loads full of drywall scrap, and old lumber in the front lawn.
The moral of my story is if you ain't going to use it get it the hell
out of your way.
Don't worry, I've kept all my tool-making supplies as well as the
electrical motors I've "salvaged".
Hope the list members will take away here only the things they really
need. Leave the rest for someone else. And for goodness sakes, don't
tell folks they have to keep anything!
kisses,
Taylor, in Rockport TX
wirerabbit1 on Skype (-0600 UTC)
http://wirerabbit.blogspot.com
http://wirerabbitpots.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wirerabbit/
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 7:56 AM, tony clennell wr=
=3D
ote:
> I thought I'd explain my analogy between sex and heavy metals. You can
> teach safe good sex, =3DC2=3DA0or bad sex but you can't pretend that ther=
e is
> no such thing as sex. People will find out that sex exists and barium
> , and manganese etc. If we on Clayart wipe them off the pages of our
> best ceramic journals then we are just asking for people to use them
> unwisely.
Snail Scott on sun 11 oct 09
On Oct 10, 2009, at 5:22 PM, Des & Jan Howard wrote:
> One of our local towns has for decades used ground
> water as its water supply. It is high enough in
> manganese to put clots of it into the washing machine
> water causing much annoyance to house holders.
> Annoyance, but no mention ever of harmful effects on
> the townspeople.
We gotta say it again...it's the FUMES of heated
manganese that are so harmful, not swallowing
the stuff.
The method of ingestion matters, a lot! Remember,
water is lethal if inhaled...
-Snail
Des & Jan Howard on mon 12 oct 09
Snail Scott wrote:
> We gotta say it again...it's the FUMES of heated
> manganese that are so harmful, not swallowing
> the stuff.
Oh Dear! Citations please, not assertions!
> The method of ingestion matters, a lot! Remember,
> water is lethal if inhaled...
Bullshit is also lethal if inhaled.
Des
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
John Post on mon 12 oct 09
This is a great mantra to use yearly. I go through my studio once a
year and sell and get rid of stuff that I either don't use anymore or
didn't make use of, but thought I would. I find it's best to clean
when you are in a pissy mood as it is easier to throw things out in
that kind of mood.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
:: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
:: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
> The mantra during the day
> became if you can't tell me exactly what project you are going to use
> this for, I'm going to pitch it. And pitch it we did. I have at least
> 3 truck loads full of drywall scrap, and old lumber in the front lawn.
> The moral of my story is if you ain't going to use it get it the hell
> out of your way.
John Hesselberth on mon 12 oct 09
On Oct 11, 2009, at 11:54 PM, Des & Jan Howard wrote:
>> We gotta say it again...it's the FUMES of heated
>> manganese that are so harmful, not swallowing
>> the stuff.
> Oh Dear! Citations please, not assertions!
Hi Des,
Here is a link that should get you started.
http://www.welding-rod-dangers.com/exposure/exposure_manganese.htm
Written by a lawyer but with links to several literature references.
And there is lots more info on the web about it. I think the confusion
here is that manganese fumes can cause "Parkinson-like" symptoms, but
apparently not the disease itself. In any case manganese fumes are not
something you want to breathe.
Regards,
John
James Freeman on mon 12 oct 09
Des, et alii...
Here is a snippet from the abstract for the scholarly article "Parkinson's
disease and other basal ganglia or movement disorders in a large nationwide
cohort of Swedish welders", by C M Fored, J P Fryzek, L Brandt, G Nise, B
Sj=3DC3=3DB6gren, J K McLaughlin, W J Blot, and A Ekbom. It is from Occupa=
tion=3D
al and
Environmental Medicine, February, 2006. You can read the entire article on
the NIH's website here:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=3D3D2078076 . In=
c=3D
ase
you don't want to read the whole citation, the conclusion, from actual
doctors and scientists, states that there is no correlation between huffing
welding fumes (manganese) all day every day and any of the Parkinson's-like
disorders:
Methods
The authors examined the relation between employment as a welder and all
basal ganglia and movement disorders (ICD=3DE2=3D80=3D9010, G20=3DE2=3D80=
=3D9326) in Sw=3D
eden using
nationwide and population based registers. All men recorded as welders or
flame cutters (n =3D3D 49 488) in the 1960 or 1970 Swedish National Census =
we=3D
re
identified and their rates of specific basal ganglia and movement disorders
between 1964 and 2003 were compared with those in an age and geographical
area matched general population comparison cohort of gainfully employed men
(n =3D3D 489 572).
Results
The overall rate for basal ganglia and movement disorders combined was
similar for the welders and flame cutters compared with the general
population (adjusted rate ratio (aRR) =3D3D 0.91 (95% CI 0.81 to 1.01).
Similarly, the rate ratio for PD was 0.89 (95% CI 0.79 to 0.99). Adjusted
rate ratios for other individual basal ganglia and movement disorders were
also not significantly increased or decreased. Further analyses of
Parkinson's disease by attained age, time period of follow up, geographical
area of residency, and educational level revealed no significant difference=
=3D
s
between the welders and the general population. Rates for Parkinson's
disease among welders in shipyards, where exposures to welding fumes are
higher, were also similar to the general population (aRR =3D3D 0.95; 95% CI=
0=3D
.70
to 1.28).
Conclusion
This nationwide record linkage study offers no support for a relation
between welding and Parkinson's disease or any other specific basal ganglia
and movement disorders.
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Des & Jan Howard wrot=
=3D
e:
> John
> Though an ambulance chaser touting for trade wasn't
> exactly my preferred choice, thanks for the reference.
> Des
>
> John Hesselberth wrote:
>
>> Here is a link that should get you started.
>> http://www.welding-rod-dangers.com/exposure/exposure_manganese.htm
>> Written by a lawyer but with links to several literature references.
>>
>
> --
> Des & Jan Howard
> Lue Pottery
> Lue NSW
> Australia
> 2850
>
> 02 6373 6419
> www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
> -32.656072 149.840624
>
James Freeman on mon 12 oct 09
Des, et alii...
Here is part of the abstract from another scholarly article on the subject,
"A cohort study of Parkinson's disease and other neurodegenerative disorder=
s
in Danish welders", by Fryzek JP, Hansen J, Cohen S, Bonde JP, Llambias MT,
Kolstad HA, Skytthe A, Lipworth L, Blot W, Olsen JH, from the Journal of
Occupational and Environmental Medicine:
Methods: A retrospective cohort study was conducted from 1977 to 2002 among
27,839 mate Danish metal-manufacturing employees, with 9,817 of those
employed in departments engaged in mild or stainless steel welding and 6,16=
3
welders.
Results: The standardized hospitalization ratio and 95 % confidence
intervals (Q) for Parkinson's disease were 0.9 (CI =3D 0.7-1.2) for men in
steel-manufacturing companies, 1.0 (CI =3D0.7-1.5) for men in welding
departments, and 0.9 (CI =3D 0.4 -1.5) for welders. Observed numbers for ot=
her
neurological conditions were small and not above population expectations.
Analyses for time period worked, age, and duration of welding were
unremarkable.
Conclusions: This relatively large cohort study with long-term follow-up
provides no support for the hypothesis that rates of hospitalization for
Parkinson's disease or other neurological conditions are elevated under the
exposure circumstances of these Danish workers.
Again, no correlation between huffing welding fumes (manganese) all day
every day and any Parkinson's-like condition. In my book, science trumps
both lawyers and their hired guns any day.
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Des & Jan Howard wrot=
e:
> John
> Though an ambulance chaser touting for trade wasn't
> exactly my preferred choice, thanks for the reference.
> Des
>
> John Hesselberth wrote:
>
>> Here is a link that should get you started.
>> http://www.welding-rod-dangers.com/exposure/exposure_manganese.htm
>> Written by a lawyer but with links to several literature references.
>>
>
> --
> Des & Jan Howard
> Lue Pottery
> Lue NSW
> Australia
> 2850
>
> 02 6373 6419
> www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
> -32.656072 149.840624
>
Des & Jan Howard on mon 12 oct 09
Lee
It was intended as an antithetical comment on David's
thought. This comment comes from the fact that humans
cannot produce certain essential items for body
requirements such as vitamins & some amino acids & must
take them in from their environment. That said, some
family groups lack the genetic ability to take up & use
these requirements even when supplied. Don't ask for
the citation it's years back in the genetics/nutrition
part of my nursing course.
Regards
Des
Lee Love wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Des & Jan Howard =
wrote:
>> David
>> Then again ALS sufferers may have a deficiency of
>> necessary manganese, from an inability to take up the
>> requisite amount for bodily needs.
>
>
> Interesting. Got any citations?
>
> BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy), ALS Amyotrophic lateral
> sclerosis and Alzheimer's are associated with Copper deficiency.
> Copper is used in our neural system. Manganese displaces Copper and
> disrupts the electrical paths.
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
jonathan byler on tue 13 oct 09
this also has to do with the compound of the metal being taken in.
organic mercury compounds are much more toxic than metallic mercury.
and Iodine is pretty toxic when elemental, but very important for
healthy thyroid function in the form of potassium iodide.
On Oct 11, 2009, at 5:45 AM, John Hesselberth wrote:
> On Oct 10, 2009, at 6:22 PM, Des & Jan Howard wrote:
>
>> One of our local towns has for decades used ground
>> water as its water supply. It is high enough in
>> manganese to put clots of it into the washing machine
>> water causing much annoyance to house holders.
>> Annoyance, but no mention ever of harmful effects on
>> the townspeople
>
> Ingesting something is usually much different than inhaling it.
> Manganese is in every multivitamin. It is the lungs that can't handle
> it.
>
> Regards,
>
> John
Des & Jan Howard on tue 13 oct 09
John
Though an ambulance chaser touting for trade wasn't
exactly my preferred choice, thanks for the reference.
Des
John Hesselberth wrote:
> Here is a link that should get you started.
> http://www.welding-rod-dangers.com/exposure/exposure_manganese.htm
> Written by a lawyer but with links to several literature references.
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
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