Erich A.Broennimann on tue 5 aug 97
------------------
Dear Clayarters,
This posting is for a friend of mine who needs desperate HELP.
We have a 42 cubic ft. Minnesota Flattop Kiln with roll in door. We
have a 150 gallon propane tank with 20 ft. 1/2=B2 copper pipe from tank
to valve. It runs on MK1 burners. This kiln should achieve cone 10 on
6 lbs. pressure. My problem is that I cannot achieve temperature. When
I increase the gas the pressure drops back and I cannot increase it
again, if I turn the gas down the pressure rises. We have been
struggling with this and have made several adjustments on the lines
from tank to burner, we have changed the regulator valve and the gage
on the tank that was leaking and put in new tubing. We have made four
attempts to achieve temp. We are about to scream=21 It seems the burners
are not getting enough air? any ideas that will light the way to
completion would be wonderful.
Please donate your valuable ideas and reply to
eran=40ilhawaii.net
http://alaike.lcc.hawaii.edu/openstudio/erich/
Talbott on wed 6 aug 97
Help is on the way!... What is the BTU/hr rating for each of your burners?
How many burners do you have..?
We have a very similar kiln...car kiln... 40 cubic feet internal space,,
and reach cone 10 using two burners each rated at 500,000 BTU/hr using a
max of 3 psi...
I go slow in the beginning even during a glaze fire and reach ^10 in in
about 16 hours. {I go into reduction around ^015 (oxy probe reading about
..67) and stay until the end... then oxidation for 10 min just prior to shut
down.} We also use a 500 gal propane tank... the only time I had problems
getting to temp was when my burner orifices were clogged up... So I shut
down one burner at a time ..did the unclog thing and was back and running
in 10 min or so,,, Easier to unclog orifices BEFORE you light off! ...
Marshall
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>------------------
>Dear Clayarters,
>This posting is for a friend of mine who needs desperate HELP.
>
>We have a 42 cubic ft. Minnesota Flattop Kiln with roll in door. We
>have a 150 gallon propane tank with 20 ft. 1/2" copper pipe from tank
>to valve. It runs on MK1 burners. This kiln should achieve cone 10 on
>6 lbs. pressure. My problem is that I cannot achieve temperature. When
>I increase the gas the pressure drops back and I cannot increase it
>again, if I turn the gas down the pressure rises. We have been
>struggling with this and have made several adjustments on the lines
>from tank to burner, we have changed the regulator valve and the gage
>on the tank that was leaking and put in new tubing. We have made four
>attempts to achieve temp. We are about to scream! It seems the burners
>are not getting enough air? any ideas that will light the way to
>completion would be wonderful.
>
>Please donate your valuable ideas and reply to
>
>eran@ilhawaii.net
>
>http://alaike.lcc.hawaii.edu/openstudio/erich/
1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
2nd Annual Clayarters' Gallery details will be forth coming!!!
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT & Sun Afternoons at
1 PM EDT Private Room: Clayarters E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net
Bill Aycock on wed 6 aug 97
This is from an electric kiln user, who, just as a better qualifier to
comment, is/was an aerospace engineer, whose grew up in a family in the gas
business.
The problem is that there is a restriction, of some kind, in the line or
valve, at the tank. The problem may actually be IN the tank, but is
probably in the valve/regulator. The symptoms are absolutely typical of a
valve that is not open enough- AT THE SOURCE END. When there is not enough
gas entering the line, opening up the outlet valve will drop the pressure
in the line. Most LPG (Liquified Petroleum Gas, usually Propane or
Butane) tanks set-ups are made for MUCH lower pressure than the level you
are using. It is likely that the regulator at the tank is the wrong type.
Look at the labeling on the regulator and ask your dealer for the specs on
pressure for it.
At 08:44 AM 8/5/97 EDT, you wrote: (in Part )
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>------------------
This kiln should achieve cone 10 on
>6 lbs. pressure. My problem is that I cannot achieve temperature. When
>I increase the gas the pressure drops back and I cannot increase it
>again, if I turn the gas down the pressure rises.
>
Bill, who uses propane at MUCH lower pressure, on Persimmon Hill.
Bill Aycock --- Persimmon Hill --- Woodville, Alabama, US 35776
--- (in the N.E. corner of the State) ---
also -- W4BSG -- Grid EM64vr
baycock@hiwaay.net
Tracy Dotson on wed 6 aug 97
Looks like your propand tank is too small to sustain the presure you want.
As gas is pulled from the tank it cools the remaining gas and the cooler the
gas is the less pressure it will generate. Presure in a propane tank is
determined by the surfice area of the liquid in the tank. Go to a 500 gal
tank and you should have no trouble maintaining pressure. Talk to your
propane dealer for the best help. Good luck. Tracy
WardBurner@aol.com on wed 6 aug 97
Erich,
Right off the bat, your propane tank may be too small, but there are a slew
of variables to contend with. To really be able to help, you would need to
give me a call so we could bounce things back and forth..... I'm in Eastern
time zone, six hours ahead of you.
Marc Ward
Ward Burner Systems
PO Box 333
Dandridge, TN 37725
USA
423.397.2914 voice
423.397.1253 fax
wardburner@aol.com
Pat Sherwood on wed 6 aug 97
Erich A.Broennimann wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ------------------
> Dear Clayarters,
> This posting is for a friend of mine who needs desperate HELP.
>
> We have a 42 cubic ft. Minnesota Flattop Kiln with roll in door. We
> have a 150 gallon propane tank with 20 ft. 1/22 copper pipe from tank
> to valve. It runs on MK1 burners. This kiln should achieve cone 10 on
> 6 lbs. pressure. My problem is that I cannot achieve temperature. When
> I increase the gas the pressure drops back and I cannot increase it
> again, if I turn the gas down the pressure rises. We have been
> struggling with this and have made several adjustments on the lines
> from tank to burner, we have changed the regulator valve and the gage
> on the tank that was leaking and put in new tubing. We have made four
> attempts to achieve temp. We are about to scream! It seems the burners
> are not getting enough air? any ideas that will light the way to
> completion would be wonderful.
>
> Please donate your valuable ideas and reply to
>
> eran@ilhawaii.net
>
> http://alaike.lcc.hawaii.edu/openstudio/erich/
----------
Hi, Eran --
Regarding your problems getting the propane kiln to temp, I'm guessing
you're way under-powered. I have a 500 gallon horizontal propane tank
with 3/4" copper tubing line from tank to kiln, with a regulator set at
27 water column inches of pressure, and once I got this setup I've had
NO problems.
Had a lot of problems with the propane service guy, though, getting it
set up. He kept telling me I didn't need lines that big, or pressure
that high, but I could never reach temp with what he installed (1/2"
line, 15 wci regulator). When I finally got fed up and quit trying to
be nice, and yelled at him to quit arguing and put in what I ordered, he
did it, and everthing has worked beautifully since.
Personally, I think the problem is that these guys know a lot about
what's necessary to supply heating furnaces, but darned little about the
huge volumes of gas needed to keep those four kiln burners happy while
going to 2400 degrees F!
Pat Sherwood
Glenrock Pottery
Ken Russell on wed 6 aug 97
>>My problem is that I cannot achieve temperature.
Tom Wirt and Betsy Price had the same sort of problem with their MFT.
Turns out the flue height wasn't tall enough for propane. There's a place
in the Art of Firing that specifies proper flue height for propane and it's
4 feet higher than forced air. If Tom or Betsy read your note, I'm sure
they'll give you more details. Betsy's e-mail address is
BetsyGlaze@aol.com. They too were pulling out their hair over the
inability to reach temperature. Nils told them to raise the flue height 4
more feet and voila. Good luck.
Ken Russell
The Arlington Pottery
gone2pot@iw.net
Nils Lou on thu 7 aug 97
You may be using too much pressure at 6 psi. With the MK-1's they will
work best at 3-4 psi. Also, make sure your kiln is tight, and the burners
are set back from the burner ports 2-3 inches for enough secondary air.
Nils
On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Talbott wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Help is on the way!... What is the BTU/hr rating for each of your burners?
> How many burners do you have..?
>
> We have a very similar kiln...car kiln... 40 cubic feet internal space,,
> and reach cone 10 using two burners each rated at 500,000 BTU/hr using a
> max of 3 psi...
>
> I go slow in the beginning even during a glaze fire and reach ^10 in in
> about 16 hours. {I go into reduction around ^015 (oxy probe reading about
> .67) and stay until the end... then oxidation for 10 min just prior to shut
> down.} We also use a 500 gal propane tank... the only time I had problems
> getting to temp was when my burner orifices were clogged up... So I shut
> down one burner at a time ..did the unclog thing and was back and running
> in 10 min or so,,, Easier to unclog orifices BEFORE you light off! ...
> Marshall
>
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >------------------
> >Dear Clayarters,
> >This posting is for a friend of mine who needs desperate HELP.
> >
> >We have a 42 cubic ft. Minnesota Flattop Kiln with roll in door. We
> >have a 150 gallon propane tank with 20 ft. 1/2" copper pipe from tank
> >to valve. It runs on MK1 burners. This kiln should achieve cone 10 on
> >6 lbs. pressure. My problem is that I cannot achieve temperature. When
> >I increase the gas the pressure drops back and I cannot increase it
> >again, if I turn the gas down the pressure rises. We have been
> >struggling with this and have made several adjustments on the lines
> >from tank to burner, we have changed the regulator valve and the gage
> >on the tank that was leaking and put in new tubing. We have made four
> >attempts to achieve temp. We are about to scream! It seems the burners
> >are not getting enough air? any ideas that will light the way to
> >completion would be wonderful.
> >
> >Please donate your valuable ideas and reply to
> >
> >eran@ilhawaii.net
> >
> >http://alaike.lcc.hawaii.edu/openstudio/erich/
>
> 1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
> http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
> 2nd Annual Clayarters' Gallery details will be forth coming!!!
>
> Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
> Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
> WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT & Sun Afternoons at
> 1 PM EDT Private Room: Clayarters E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net
>
Erich A.Broennimann on sat 16 aug 97
------------------
Dear Nils,
So glad you responded just got your message today. I fired this
MFT for 8 years in N.Y. with a 650 gallon propane tank and it always
worked beautifully. Here in Hawaii I have a 150 gal. tank which is
freezing up on the bottom as the firing progresses. In NY. I fired
these MK-1=B9s with 5 lbs. pressure.
The kiln is 42 cubic ft. with 1/2 =B3 copper tubing from tank to
regulator gage and the original hardware from gage to burners.
Is there something I can do to make this work? The burners
are backed up 3=B2.
Thanks, Joyce
Nils Lou wrote:
=3E
=3E ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
=3E You may be using too much pressure at 6 psi. With the MK-1's they will
=3E work best at 3-4 psi. Also, make sure your kiln is tight, and the =
burners
=3E are set back from the burner ports 2-3 inches for enough secondary air.
=3E Nils
=3E
=3E On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Talbott wrote:
=3E
=3E =3E ----------------------------Original =
message----------------------------
=3E =3E Help is on the way=21... What is the BTU/hr rating for each of your =
burners?
=3E =3E How many burners do you have..?
=3E =3E
=3E =3E We have a very similar kiln...car kiln... 40 cubic feet internal =
space,,
=3E =3E and reach cone 10 using two burners each rated at 500,000 BTU/hr =
using a
=3E =3E max of 3 psi...
=3E =3E
=3E =3E I go slow in the beginning even during a glaze fire and reach =5E10 =
in in
=3E =3E about 16 hours. =7BI go into reduction around =5E015 (oxy probe =
reading about
=3E =3E .67) and stay until the end... then oxidation for 10 min just prior =
to shut
=3E =3E down.=7D We also use a 500 gal propane tank... the only time I had =
problems
=3E =3E getting to temp was when my burner orifices were clogged up... So I =
shut
=3E =3E down one burner at a time ..did the unclog thing and was back and =
running
=3E =3E in 10 min or so,,, Easier to unclog orifices BEFORE you light off=21=
...
=3E =3E Marshall
=3E =3E
=3E =3E =3E----------------------------Original =
message----------------------------
=3E =3E =3E------------------
=3E =3E =3EDear Clayarters,
=3E =3E =3EThis posting is for a friend of mine who needs desperate HELP.
=3E =3E =3E
=3E =3E =3EWe have a 42 cubic ft. Minnesota Flattop Kiln with roll in door. =
We
=3E =3E =3Ehave a 150 gallon propane tank with 20 ft. 1/2=22 copper pipe =
from tank
=3E =3E =3Eto valve. It runs on MK1 burners. This kiln should achieve cone =
10 on
=3E =3E =3E6 lbs. pressure. My problem is that I cannot achieve temperature.=
When
=3E =3E =3EI increase the gas the pressure drops back and I cannot increase=
it
=3E =3E =3Eagain, if I turn the gas down the pressure rises. We have been
=3E =3E =3Estruggling with this and have made several adjustments on the =
lines
=3E =3E =3Efrom tank to burner, we have changed the regulator valve and the =
gage
=3E =3E =3Eon the tank that was leaking and put in new tubing. We have made=
four
=3E =3E =3Eattempts to achieve temp. We are about to scream=21 It seems the =
burners
=3E =3E =3Eare not getting enough air? any ideas that will light the way to
=3E =3E =3Ecompletion would be wonderful.
=3E =3E =3E
=3E =3E =3EPlease donate your valuable ideas and reply to
=3E =3E =3E
=3E =3E =3Eeran=40ilhawaii.net
=3E =3E =3E
=3E =3E =3Ehttp://alaike.lcc.hawaii.edu/openstudio/erich/
=3E =3E
=3E =3E 1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer =
1997)
=3E =3E http://fmc.utm.edu/=7Edmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
=3E =3E 2nd Annual Clayarters' Gallery details will be forth =
coming=21=21=21
=3E =3E
=3E =3E Celia =26 Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O =
Box 4116,
=3E =3E Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call =
first)
=3E =3E WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT =26 Sun Afternoons =
at
=3E =3E 1 PM EDT Private Room: Clayarters E-MAIL: =
clupus=40ime.net
=3E =3E
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