Janet H Walker on sat 6 apr 96
I've recently returned from a two week vacation in Japan -- Tokyo
and Kyoto. Unless you have some friends of friends to smooth the
way, I think you will be lucky to get into an actual pottery.
Especially if you don't know any Japanese! Take photos of your work
with you and your business cards! That at least is sort of
universal language for "I do this too".
The village of Mashiko is apparently worth seeing. It was mostly
closed on Wednesdays and in February so I decided not to go. It is
reachable by train from Tokyo but get directions from a reliable
source. (The JNTO has a brochure on potteries but its directions to
Mashiko are misleading at best.)
In Tokyo, go see the museums and the ceramic art in the dept store
5th floor galleries. The JNTO brochure on art museums has some good
suggestions and the folks in the office will look up the weekly
"what's on" listings for you. I especially liked the Idemitsu
musuem (lots of shards), the Toguri Art Museum (all ceramics), and
the Tokyo National Museum (historic stuff).
In Kyoto, go the the Kawai Kanjiro home/museum. It is truly
inspiring and humbling. On the road in to Kiyomizudera temple,
you'll see wall-to-wall pottery shops. There is one excellent
gallery named Tohgoro. Don't miss that one! In the hills to the
southeast of Kyoto proper, you'll find something that seems to be a
pottery cooperative "village" -- about two dozen small potteries in
the area near a rather large gallery. On the tourist maps it is
called Kiyomizu yaki danchi. It is a puzzling place to visit
because there are no English sign clues as to what is going on. Go
to the city tourist office near Kyoto station ahead of time and see
if you can get someone to set up an official visit for you.
Otherwise be prepared for a certain amount of mutual puzzlement.
If the archive were working, you could use LISTSERV to look up the
various queries and trip reports on Japan. There are some good ones
and maybe the people who sent them originally will forward them to
you. Last I checked, there was no query service for the clayart
archive sad to say. (It would be nice to hear that my info is
outdated.)
Jan Walker
Fun & Functional Arts
Cambridge MA USA
Richard J.Mahaffey on mon 8 apr 96
Hi,
You can contact the Japanese Councilate in your area and ask the location fo
the nearest office (I know that there is one in San Francisco and another in
New York, I think) and ask for the
information they have on Ceramics and pottery. This together with a map can
allow you to consider some side trips like Shigaraki from Kyoto.
Also in Kyoto be sure to go to Shimonzen dori ((dori is street)the antique
street), which can be like going to a museum without the glass between you and
the pots. The Raku museum is worth considering (BTW they don't reduce stuff
after the firing and would sonder what we are doing in the US when we "Raku").
The Kyoto Craft Center, a couple of blocks from Shimonzen Dori, is worth a
visit. Kyoto is truly one of the world's great cities and has more to offer
than clay. (Blasphemy, I know, but still true)
If you can find a copy of "the World of Japanese Ceramics" by Herbert Sanders
in the library ( I think it is out of print) it has a map of pottery sites
a copy of which is hanging on the wall of my apartment in Naruto here and I
refer to it all the time.
Ken Stevens can you think of more places?
Rick Mahaffey
Naruto Univ of Edu., Shikoku Japan
Jack Troy on mon 8 apr 96
A book as handy as it is diffult to find is _Earth 'n' Fire_ by Amaury
Saint-Gilles, published in 1978 by Shufunomoto Co, Ltd. and long out of
print. (It should be updated).
The little book does a fine job of "showing and telling" about pottery in
Japan in both words and pictures. For example, over 100 cups are shown in color
with descriptions of where each was made.
Visiting Kawai Kanjiro's home in Kyoto.
If you go in summer
you can experience a tiny high:
being bitten by mosquitos
from the same gene-pool
as those that dined
on Kawai-san's blood
years and years ago.
Jack Troy
carrie or peter jacobson on sat 27 feb 99
Hello, all: I'd like to bring up a question which may get me branded as a
troublemaker, or an idiot, but is something I truly don't get.
Japan.
I understand to some degree the long tradition of japanese pottery, and
that it has its own elegant if understated esthetic that makes it, or helps
make it, part and parcel of a tradition and a culture.
But I am bothered by the fact that many of the revered potters on this
list, and many of the not-so-revered ones, look to Japan for inspiration.
It seems to me that unless you are Japanese, it's self-defeating to look to
Japan. We are what we are, Americans, Canadians, Belgian, South African,
whatever we are, and in each of these cultures, we have a tradition, an
esthetic, a system of values, beliefs and experiences that, to me, should
be reflected in, and by, the pots we produce.
I guess I am saying, for me, there's no place like home. And while that
sounds cliched and simplistic, I think simply that it's true. I am
American. I want to make pots that show where I've been, that show where my
people have been, that show what I have learned. I just don't get the
person who, living in Kansas for instance, wants to make pots that look
they were made by a Japanese person, or were made to be used by a Japanese
person.
Please! Don't take all this as a cultural bias. I am not saying anything
derogatory about Japan, about other cultures, about the possibility of
learning through other cultures, expanding your horizons, etc. I am just
wondering about the apparent willingness to relinquish one's own personal
and cultural perspective.
Carrie Jacobson
Carrie Jacobson
Pawcatuck, CT
mailto:jacobson@brainiac.com
Gayle Bair on sun 28 feb 99
Carrie,
It seems to me that from the articles I have read
of Japanese master potters teaching or apprenticing
potters from other cultures, they agree with you.
They tell their foreign students to follow their own culture.
Now if you want to get really deep... consider this.....
those of us who believe you do not go around just once
in life but live many times what culture does one follow then???
Personally I feel connected and love many cultures. They are
reflected in my work and I am comfortable with this!
Gayle Bair
gaylebair@earthlink.net
-----Original Message-----
From: carrie or peter jacobson [SMTP:jacobson@brainiac.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 1999 8:57 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: japan
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hello, all: I'd like to bring up a question which may get me branded as a
troublemaker, or an idiot, but is something I truly don't get.
Japan.
I understand to some degree the long tradition of japanese pottery, and
that it has its own elegant if understated esthetic that makes it, or helps
make it, part and parcel of a tradition and a culture.
June Perry on sun 28 feb 99
Dear Carrie:
If we were to adopt purely American pots for pure American food, we'd be
making Turkey platters and bowls for beans and squash. What is so American, is
to take the best of what is available. So we got Roast beef and Yorkshire
pudding from the English, Irish Stew, Lasagna, Sushi, Stir fry, and a myriad
of other foods from other cultures, often requiring special dishes for
cooking and serving. We eat sushi and drink sake so we make and sell sushi
plates and sake sets. We make lasagna pans and pizza stones to accomodate
those foods. Someone may buy it and use it for something else and that's ok
too.
I love the look and feel of tea bowls and love the whole meditation called the
tea ceremony, so I make tea bowls. My daughter in law took one of my favorite
tea bowls (done to proper proportion, with the appropriate well at the bottom,
etc.) and she use it for her Ben and Jerry's ice cream! She loves that bowl
and doesn't give a hoot about the fact that it was intended for something
else. Who knows, maybe she's had more lifetimes in Japan than here and
something inside of her remembered through that tea bowl. I've had other
people buy tea bowls out of that same kind of emotional response. I remember
one lady in particular who bought a raku crackle bowl. It was a nice bowl, but
it shouldn't have evoked such an overly emotional and enthusiastic response to
it; but maybe she too, was responding to another remebrance of another life in
another place. I love Japan and have had a couple of trips there and am
planning another one. I suspect that I too have a major connection to that
energy.
My point is that the world has become very small and it's more a one world
culture in many ways for many people. I love cooking and eating foods of other
cultures. I love my Japanese sake bowls and sesame seed roaster, my Chinese
crane bowl and other pots I've carted from other parts of the globe.
And lest not forget, that other cultures adopt our customs as well. The
Japanese have discovered coffe, root beer floats, etc. so now they make,
purchase and use the appropriate pottery or glass for those items.
I for one prefer to think of myself as a resident of planet earth and not put
myself in only one little fenced in corner of the world. There's just too
much good stuff out there to play with and too much to learn from our earthly
brothers and sisters.
Warm regards,
June
Vince Pitelka on sun 28 feb 99
>Please! Don't take all this as a cultural bias. I am not saying anything
>derogatory about Japan, about other cultures, about the possibility of
>learning through other cultures, expanding your horizons, etc. I am just
>wondering about the apparent willingness to relinquish one's own personal
>and cultural perspective.
Carrie -
I'm confused. Who is relinquishing their own personal and cultural
perspective? There are great numbers of potters in this country who have
been profoundly influenced by the long, rich tradition of Japanese ceramics,
and have taken that influence and combined it with other information to come
up with something really unique. There are a few potters around who are
doing stuff which is just a ripoff of historical Japanese styles, just as
there are "artists" in all media who lack personal creative vision and
instead plagiarize the work of a particular artist or historic style. But
in my experience, genuine artists/artisans usually draw from many sources
and synthesize something new.
It is little wonder we find such inspiration in Japanese ceramics. The
earliest clay vessels on earth were almost certainly made in Japan during
the Jomon period as early as 12,000 B.C. As is the case in many East Asian
countries, through most of Japanese history ceramics have been among the
highest of art forms. Aside from Pre-Columbian cultures of the Americas,
there are very few cultures elsewhere in the world that have held clay art
in such high esteem.
Who should we draw from in informing our decisions about stylistic
direction? American ceramics? What is American ceramics? What exactly is
our personal and cultural perspective, individually or collectively? As a
matter of fact, it is a synthesis of influences, mostly foreign. If we are
looking for inspiration, we can certainly find plenty in the only truly
indigenous American ceramics - Native American. But it is not really
appropriate to follow those stylistic directions without direct
cultural/family linneage. In historical American pottery we have
Pennsylvania Dutch, which combines German and other European influences. We
have Appalachian and Jugtown pottery, which combines German, Scotch-Irish,
and other influences, possibly even including African-American. We have
Northeastern colonial pottery, primarily of English origins. And in the
intervening period since the colonial era we find every conceivable
synthesis of style drawing from every ceramics producing culture across the
world. Being a nation composed of Native Americans and immigrants, our
stylistic influences come from diverse sources world-wide. Why should we
change that now?
The history of Japanese ceramics is among the richest and most diverse in
the world. It is an extraordinary evolution, with so much to inspire and
inform our work if we choose to allow it. Since you are questioning why
many American potters are so strongly influenced by Japanese ceramics, it
would be worth your while to pursue an in depth study of Japanese ceramics.
You might start with Louise Cort's _Seto and Mino Ceramics_ and _Shigaraki,
A Potter's Villiage_, Richard Wilson's _Inside Japanese Ceramics : A Primer
of Materials, Techniques, and Traditions_, Leila Philip's _Road Through
Miyama_, and of course, Bernard Leach's _A Potter's Book_. There are many
more. Others may suggest some.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Eydie DeVincenzi on sun 28 feb 99
------------------
Carrie:
=3EWe are what we are, Americans, Canadians, Belgian, South African,
whatever we are, and in each of these cultures, we have a tradition, an
esthetic, a system of values, beliefs and experiences that, to me, should
be reflected in, and by, the pots we produce.
=3C
When I look at pottery from another culture, I am looking to see how that
potter successfully or unsuccessfully reflects their culture in that pot.
I am a newcomer to pottery and art (3 years) and I have no 'formal'
=5Bdegreed=5D training in art. So my fascination is still quite electric. =
I
am constantly impressed with how powerful art can be in delivering a
message.
What is it that makes a pot uniquely Japanese? I'm not sure, but I enjoy
looking at their quiet simplicity. I also love to look at African pottery,
Mexican pottery, American Indian pieces =5Betc=5D -- - and they all do
different things to my senses.
Eydie DeVincenzi
Lee Jaffe on mon 1 mar 99
To some extent, I can see where you are coming from. A friend of mine
was performing in a Celtic band and one day looked around the group and
realized that every member was a Jew. He wondered why they were all
performing another culture's music, rather than their own. This lead him
to investigate Jewish music and form one of the first Klezmer revival
bands. This is a good story in that it redirected someone in a positive
path, one of growth, creativity and discovery.
In a best case scenario, applying this reasoning literally to all cultural
forms would mean direct artistic lineages. But this works only if the
cultural traditions are available to you. And it only makes since in a
linear world, with little or no cross-cultural exchange. It's a world where
Elvis would sing the songs of the British Isles, never learning from the
Black street musicians of his home town.
My father wasn't a potter, nor my grandfather, nor anyone else in my
family. The village I grew up in was called "Philadelphia" and there was
no traditional potters among the neighbors to whom I could be apprenticed.
If going into pottery meant having my own tradtion to inspire and teach me,
I'd be out of luck. Very few of us in the "West" belong to cultural groups
or have access to a living ceramic tradition which could be a linear
foundation for a life in pottery.
Somehow, I ended up in pottery classes despite the lack of the availability
of a Jewish ceramic tradition. One of my teachers had been inspired by the
Japanese tradition and I eventually went to Japan with him to take classes.
However, I'd be deluded if I thought I was making Japanese pottery. But
I do borrow from the tradition. The forms are beautiful, the philosophy
is inspiring, and the tradition is a rich source of inspiration. At the same
time, I did make a ceramic mezuzah for my doorpost and I'm thinking about
making a Passover platter for the upcoming holiday.
As a side note, I want to mention that part of the Japanese ceramic
tradition was born out of the Pottery Wars, when they brought back
captured Korean potters to work in porcelain. Likewise, one of the most
Japanese of ceramic forms - the Tenmoku Chawan, or tea bowl - was
copied from rice bowls used in Chinese monasteries. And later the
Japanese copied English copies of Ming porcelain, and even the best
experts sometimes can't tell one from the other. Even later, Bernard
Leach found that the Kyushu potters readily copied some of the forms
he demonstrated for them.
I don't know where anyone is going to find a pure cultural tradition. The
plains of Kansas belonged to Indian tribes not that long ago. The Europeans
that arrived came from many countries and cultural backgrounds, and they
quickly mixed traditions, to form new ones. What would traditional Kansas
ceramics look like? And how could you be sure that the pottery your
ancestors brought with them wasn't inspired by wares brought back
during the early days of the China trade? And why would you cut yourself
off from such inspiration for an uncertain sense of purity?
-- Lee Jaffe
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hello, all: I'd like to bring up a question which may get me branded as a
>troublemaker, or an idiot, but is something I truly don't get.
>
>Japan.
>
>I understand to some degree the long tradition of japanese pottery, and
>that it has its own elegant if understated esthetic that makes it, or helps
>make it, part and parcel of a tradition and a culture.
>
>But I am bothered by the fact that many of the revered potters on this
>list, and many of the not-so-revered ones, look to Japan for inspiration.
>It seems to me that unless you are Japanese, it's self-defeating to look to
>Japan. We are what we are, Americans, Canadians, Belgian, South African,
>whatever we are, and in each of these cultures, we have a tradition, an
>esthetic, a system of values, beliefs and experiences that, to me, should
>be reflected in, and by, the pots we produce.
>
>I guess I am saying, for me, there's no place like home. And while that
>sounds cliched and simplistic, I think simply that it's true. I am
>American. I want to make pots that show where I've been, that show where my
>people have been, that show what I have learned. I just don't get the
>person who, living in Kansas for instance, wants to make pots that look
>they were made by a Japanese person, or were made to be used by a Japanese
>person.
>
>Please! Don't take all this as a cultural bias. I am not saying anything
>derogatory about Japan, about other cultures, about the possibility of
>learning through other cultures, expanding your horizons, etc. I am just
>wondering about the apparent willingness to relinquish one's own personal
>and cultural perspective.
>
>Carrie Jacobson
>
>
>Carrie Jacobson
>Pawcatuck, CT
>mailto:jacobson@brainiac.com
Lee Jaffe on mon 1 mar 99
>But I am bothered by the fact that many of the revered potters on this
>list, and many of the not-so-revered ones, look to Japan for inspiration.
>It seems to me that unless you are Japanese, it's self-defeating to look to
>Japan.
This would only make sense if there were pure ceramic traditions from
which to draw. I don't know what Kansas pottery would look like, but if
it drew from any European ceramics then it is heavily influenced by Japan
and China. Any blue-and-white ware is a direct steal from the early
China trade. (I've even heard that the Impressionists took some of
their inspiration from Japanese woodblock prints used to wrap china
imported into France.) You can either look to the East consciously or
unconsciously, but since the world is a sphere you are going to be
going that way one way or the other.
-- Lee
Robert Yellin on mon 1 mar 99
Greetings from An American in Japan-
Well, actually I've given up on all labels and just consider
myself, first, grateful to be alive at the sametime as ya'all,
and secondly, in no need of having to classify myself in whatever
terms, whether nationality or occupation. Let other fool around with
such trivial matters and do watch B. Dylan's masterful way of addressing
such issues in that B&W movie he did in the sixties- what was the name?
I wonder how DaVinci would have addressed this issue of labels.
In any event, for those of you who might be interested in Japanese
ceramics, I have started a discussion list on the subject and you
can join by accessing www.onelist.com
and searching my list- JapaneseCeramics.
Since I'm not a potter, I shall sometime in the near future depart
from your company which I have greatly enjoyed for the past two year or
so,
but what is time anyway, I sit here and drink a fine sake from a
Kamakura
period flask(1185-1333) poured into a Chosen cup(15th century)-
how grand it would be if some soul a few centuries down the road
cherished what
you make- think about that prospect.
Japan is alive with ceramics and that is why it is looked to with
admiration.
Yet, I don't know anything and to paraphrase Robert Bly, 'God's ocean is
so
large and my boat is so small..' what do I know?
Go look out at the stars tonight wherever you are and ponder....
From Numazu,
Robert Yellin
Roger Korn on mon 1 mar 99
Vince wrote:
"... If we are
looking for inspiration, we can certainly find plenty in the only truly
indigenous American ceramics - Native American. But it is not really
appropriate to follow those stylistic directions without direct
cultural/family linneage..."
Why isn't it appropriate? If it moves, informs, and inspires you, go
with it.
Just my opinion,
Roger Korn
McKay Creek Ceramics
John Stuart on tue 2 mar 99
Carrie,
Well, I certainly won't brand you with any labels, for I understand the
feeling when you don't get another's point-of-view.
But, as one of those not-so-revered, (not-even-known-actually) potters who
consistently turn toward Japan for inspiration, I would like to comment.
Another cliche' ---"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
I, and others, look toward Japanese pottery as an inspiration because we
think Japanese pots are truly *BEAUTIFUL*..And we are inspired by the
feeling we get when we view them. We love the lines, the shapes, the glazes
and decorations, and sometimes even the functional purpose of Japanese
pots. For me, inspiration is a *feeling* that pulls me in, at the mere
sight of an object. Many things inspire me, some only once, some for
awhile, and some things for a lifetime. Japanese Pottery is one of those
touchstones that I keep coming back too.... And it doesn't have to be
"made-in-japan" either.... I often see japanese-style pottery that moves me
and inspires me, then notice the potter is a non-japanese, not living or
working in Japan.
And it works both ways too... Even though I am a Southern-born American, I
think those Folk-art southern Face Jugs are flat out *UGLY* and not only
would I not have one, but I even turn my head in horror when I see them at
shows...I can't bring myself to look at them, they invoke that much emotion
in me.
For many, Japanese pottery is a descriptive style that you do not have to
be born into to appreciate. Just like you don't have to be American to
appreciate Baseball, or democratic freedom, for that matter.
Self-defeating?? ...I don't think so. Inspiration is just that.....It comes
from within, and can be triggered by many things, by all of the senses, or
by us alone.
And while we all do have a specific tradition of pottery to be inspired (or
not) by, the wonderful thing about clay is that we are not bound by those
traditions. Clay is what we make it..nothing more, nothing less. That's
Self-empowering, to me...
Pottery is one of mankind's oldest crafts, and different traditions
developed in different places on the earth because of isolation of
cultures, and independent evolution. Now, in this age of information, I for
one revere the fact that I can choose to follow another culture's
traditions from afar, and in doing so, place my own little mark on the
world around me.
John
>Hello, all: I'd like to bring up a question which may get me branded as a
>troublemaker, or an idiot, but is something I truly don't get.
>
>Japan.
>
>I understand to some degree the long tradition of japanese pottery, and
>that it has its own elegant if understated esthetic that makes it, or helps
>make it, part and parcel of a tradition and a culture.
>
>But I am bothered by the fact that many of the revered potters on this
>list, and many of the not-so-revered ones, look to Japan for inspiration.
>It seems to me that unless you are Japanese, it's self-defeating to look to
>Japan. We are what we are, Americans, Canadians, Belgian, South African,
>whatever we are, and in each of these cultures, we have a tradition, an
>esthetic, a system of values, beliefs and experiences that, to me, should
>be reflected in, and by, the pots we produce.
>
>I guess I am saying, for me, there's no place like home. And while that
>sounds cliched and simplistic, I think simply that it's true. I am
>American. I want to make pots that show where I've been, that show where my
>people have been, that show what I have learned. I just don't get the
>person who, living in Kansas for instance, wants to make pots that look
>they were made by a Japanese person, or were made to be used by a Japanese
>person.
>
>Please! Don't take all this as a cultural bias. I am not saying anything
>derogatory about Japan, about other cultures, about the possibility of
>learning through other cultures, expanding your horizons, etc. I am just
>wondering about the apparent willingness to relinquish one's own personal
>and cultural perspective.
>
>Carrie Jacobson
>
>
>Carrie Jacobson
>Pawcatuck, CT
>mailto:jacobson@brainiac.com
>
John Stuart on tue 2 mar 99
Carrie,
Well, I certainly won't brand you with any labels, for I understand the
feeling when you don't get another's point-of-view.
But, as one of those not-so-revered, (not-even-known-actually) potters who
consistently turn toward Japan for inspiration, I would like to comment.
Another cliche' ---"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
I, and others, look toward Japanese pottery as an inspiration because we
think Japanese pots are truly *BEAUTIFUL*..And we are inspired by the
feeling we get when we view them. We love the lines, the shapes, the glazes
and decorations, and sometimes even the functional purpose of Japanese
pots. For me, inspiration is a *feeling* that pulls me in, at the mere
sight of an object. Many things inspire me, some only once, some for
awhile, and some things for a lifetime. Japanese Pottery is one of those
touchstones that I keep coming back too.... And it doesn't have to be
"made-in-japan" either.... I often see japanese-style pottery that moves me
and inspires me, then notice the potter is a non-japanese, not living or
working in Japan.
And it works both ways too... Even though I am a Southern-born American, I
think those Folk-art southern Face Jugs are flat out *UGLY* and not only
would I not have one, but I even turn my head in horror when I see them at
shows...I can't bring myself to look at them, they invoke that much emotion
in me.
For many, Japanese pottery is a descriptive style that you do not have to
be born into to appreciate. Just like you don't have to be American to
appreciate Baseball, or democratic freedom, for that matter.
Self-defeating?? ...I don't think so. Inspiration is just that.....It comes
from within, and can be triggered by many things, by all of the senses, or
by us alone.
And while we all do have a specific tradition of pottery to be inspired (or
not) by, the wonderful thing about clay is that we are not bound by those
traditions. Clay is what we make it..nothing more, nothing less. That's
Self-empowering, to me...
Pottery is one of mankind's oldest crafts, and different traditions
developed in different places on the earth because of isolation of
cultures, and independent evolution. Now, in this age of information, I for
one revere the fact that I can choose to follow another culture's
traditions from afar, and in doing so, place my own little mark on the
world around me.
John
>Hello, all: I'd like to bring up a question which may get me branded as a
>troublemaker, or an idiot, but is something I truly don't get.
>
>Japan.
>
>I understand to some degree the long tradition of japanese pottery, and
>that it has its own elegant if understated esthetic that makes it, or helps
>make it, part and parcel of a tradition and a culture.
>
>But I am bothered by the fact that many of the revered potters on this
>list, and many of the not-so-revered ones, look to Japan for inspiration.
>It seems to me that unless you are Japanese, it's self-defeating to look to
>Japan. We are what we are, Americans, Canadians, Belgian, South African,
>whatever we are, and in each of these cultures, we have a tradition, an
>esthetic, a system of values, beliefs and experiences that, to me, should
>be reflected in, and by, the pots we produce.
>
>I guess I am saying, for me, there's no place like home. And while that
>sounds cliched and simplistic, I think simply that it's true. I am
>American. I want to make pots that show where I've been, that show where my
>people have been, that show what I have learned. I just don't get the
>person who, living in Kansas for instance, wants to make pots that look
>they were made by a Japanese person, or were made to be used by a Japanese
>person.
>
>Please! Don't take all this as a cultural bias. I am not saying anything
>derogatory about Japan, about other cultures, about the possibility of
>learning through other cultures, expanding your horizons, etc. I am just
>wondering about the apparent willingness to relinquish one's own personal
>and cultural perspective.
>
>Carrie Jacobson
>
>
>Carrie Jacobson
>Pawcatuck, CT
>mailto:jacobson@brainiac.com
>
Erin Hayes on tue 2 mar 99
Hi All!
Vince posted this recently:
"... If we are looking for inspiration, we can certainly find plenty in the
only truly indigenous American ceramics - Native American. But it is not
really appropriate to follow those stylistic directions without direct
cultural/family lineage..."
And Roger Korn replied with this question:
Why isn't it appropriate? If it moves, informs, and inspires you, go
with it.
My take on this is simply to keep in mind that all artists are influenced by
their visual experiences. That's what we do, and that's one of the great
strengths of artists - to be able to synthesize visual form and personal
experience.
I think Vince and Roger are likely closer to the same wavelength than it
sounds. It seems to me that allowing the influence of Native American
ceramics (or Greek, or Japanese, etc.)is great. Learning the techniques
makes you more well-rounded and knowledgeable. That's always a good thing.
But simple imitation of the style, in my opinion, is not okay. That takes
something away from the original work. If you imitate a style, there can't
be much of you in the work, either, and that takes away from your direction
as an artist. The mixture of outward influence filtered through a personal
aesthetic is what makes everyone's work different and exciting.
Influence, yes. Imitation, no.
Just my opinion, as always.
Erin.
Erin Hayes on tue 2 mar 99
Hi All!
Vince posted this recently:
"... If we are looking for inspiration, we can certainly find plenty in the
only truly indigenous American ceramics - Native American. But it is not
really appropriate to follow those stylistic directions without direct
cultural/family lineage..."
And Roger Korn replied with this question:
Why isn't it appropriate? If it moves, informs, and inspires you, go
with it.
My take on this is simply to keep in mind that all artists are influenced by
their visual experiences. That's what we do, and that's one of the great
strengths of artists - to be able to synthesize visual form and personal
experience.
I think Vince and Roger are likely closer to the same wavelength than it
sounds. It seems to me that allowing the influence of Native American
ceramics (or Greek, or Japanese, etc.)is great. Learning the techniques
makes you more well-rounded and knowledgeable. That's always a good thing.
But simple imitation of the style, in my opinion, is not okay. That takes
something away from the original work. If you imitate a style, there can't
be much of you in the work, either, and that takes away from your direction
as an artist. The mixture of outward influence filtered through a personal
aesthetic is what makes everyone's work different and exciting.
Influence, yes. Imitation, no.
Just my opinion, as always.
Erin.
Karen L. Cejka on tue 2 mar 99
Thanks for the encouragement, Roger Korn, in your response to Vince. As
a 2nd year potter who's totally hooked on clay, handbuilding and
prehistoric Native American forms and designs, I had been feeling
somewhat apologetic about what I do because it is derivative.
However, the results of several aberrant forays into different "styles"
or assigned projects and my own creative form efforts were so ugly and/or
unsatisfying that I threw them out, and decided to go with the flow until
this works its way out of my system (if it ever does). I also find
inspiration in sub-Saharan West African and Zairian works in clay, and
lately also Minoan/Mycenean forms. The forms speak to me.
I find that, even if I do try to COPY a pot I especially like, I usually
make a "mistake", which forces me to find a solution to the problem I've
created for myself, whether it's in the form or the surface design. That
really gets the creative juices flowing, and the pot ends up being
"mine". Additionally, trying to copy something has led me to try things
on my own that I have no idea how to do. I've learned so much!
Don't we all have to start somewhere? Vince, would you expand on the
quote below?
Meanwhile, the clay feels alive under my hands, I feel connected to the
earth and my pots sing.
Karen Cejka
Dayton, OH
On Mon, 1 Mar 1999 15:28:33 EST Roger Korn writes:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Vince wrote:
>"... If we are looking for inspiration, we can certainly find plenty in
the only
>truly indigenous American ceramics - Native American. But it is not
really
>appropriate to follow those stylistic directions without direct
cultural/family lineage..."
Roger responded:
>Why isn't it appropriate? If it moves, informs, and inspires you, go
with it.
>McKay Creek Ceramics
>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Karen L. Cejka on tue 2 mar 99
Thanks for the encouragement, Roger Korn, in your response to Vince. As
a 2nd year potter who's totally hooked on clay, handbuilding and
prehistoric Native American forms and designs, I had been feeling
somewhat apologetic about what I do because it is derivative.
However, the results of several aberrant forays into different "styles"
or assigned projects and my own creative form efforts were so ugly and/or
unsatisfying that I threw them out, and decided to go with the flow until
this works its way out of my system (if it ever does). I also find
inspiration in sub-Saharan West African and Zairian works in clay, and
lately also Minoan/Mycenean forms. The forms speak to me.
I find that, even if I do try to COPY a pot I especially like, I usually
make a "mistake", which forces me to find a solution to the problem I've
created for myself, whether it's in the form or the surface design. That
really gets the creative juices flowing, and the pot ends up being
"mine". Additionally, trying to copy something has led me to try things
on my own that I have no idea how to do. I've learned so much!
Don't we all have to start somewhere? Vince, would you expand on the
quote below?
Meanwhile, the clay feels alive under my hands, I feel connected to the
earth and my pots sing.
Karen Cejka
Dayton, OH
On Mon, 1 Mar 1999 15:28:33 EST Roger Korn writes:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Vince wrote:
>"... If we are looking for inspiration, we can certainly find plenty in
the only
>truly indigenous American ceramics - Native American. But it is not
really
>appropriate to follow those stylistic directions without direct
cultural/family lineage..."
Roger responded:
>Why isn't it appropriate? If it moves, informs, and inspires you, go
with it.
>McKay Creek Ceramics
>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Vince Pitelka on tue 2 mar 99
>"... If we are
>looking for inspiration, we can certainly find plenty in the only truly
>indigenous American ceramics - Native American. But it is not really
>appropriate to follow those stylistic directions without direct
>cultural/family linneage..."
>
>Why isn't it appropriate? If it moves, informs, and inspires you, go
>with it.
>Just my opinion,
>Roger Korn
>McKay Creek Ceramics
Roger -
If we are inspired by the work of Hopi, Zuni, etc., and allow it to
influence our work, that is one thing. But if we appropriate the specific
styles and decoration, essentially making copies to be sold, without the
direct family linneage and cultural tradition, then it is a blatant rip-off,
and shows a real lack of creativity and innovation.
Just my opinion.
I have mentioned this quote before on Clayart, but here goes again. The
great Jazzman Clark Terry said "Immitate, assimilate, innovate." As student
artists we often immitate great art for the learning experience, but then we
assimilate what is great about it, and that inspires us to innovation - to
create something new and original.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Vince Pitelka on tue 2 mar 99
>"... If we are
>looking for inspiration, we can certainly find plenty in the only truly
>indigenous American ceramics - Native American. But it is not really
>appropriate to follow those stylistic directions without direct
>cultural/family linneage..."
>
>Why isn't it appropriate? If it moves, informs, and inspires you, go
>with it.
>Just my opinion,
>Roger Korn
>McKay Creek Ceramics
Roger -
If we are inspired by the work of Hopi, Zuni, etc., and allow it to
influence our work, that is one thing. But if we appropriate the specific
styles and decoration, essentially making copies to be sold, without the
direct family linneage and cultural tradition, then it is a blatant rip-off,
and shows a real lack of creativity and innovation.
Just my opinion.
I have mentioned this quote before on Clayart, but here goes again. The
great Jazzman Clark Terry said "Immitate, assimilate, innovate." As student
artists we often immitate great art for the learning experience, but then we
assimilate what is great about it, and that inspires us to innovation - to
create something new and original.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Rafael Molina on tue 2 mar 99
Robert:
Let me begin by saying I've enjoyed your contributions to the list
immensely. I've always been fascinated by all things Japanese; ceramics,
woodworking, metalwork, fibers, architecture, Zen Buddhism, Sumo, Kabuki,
sake, etc,... While I've never been to Japan, I feel that I know some
things vicariously through the many Japanese students that have enrolled in
my classes over the years; Aki, Hisae, Mami, Katsumasa, Hiroshi, Koji,
Naoko, Iako, et al.
Regarding your post, I was having a little trouble understanding how you
could first feel "no need of having to classify myself in whatever terms,
whether nationality or occupation. Let other fool around with such trivial
matters" and follow that with "fine sake from a Kamakura period
flask(1185-1333) poured into a Chosen cup(15th century)". Isn't Kamakura a
classification? It distinguishes one period or style from another. If you
coudn't use the label Kamakura then the flask could be called Edo, Meiji or
Momoyama. Or perhaps, the Chosen cup could be called Raku. If we didn't
have labels then how could we distinguish Bizen from Shigaraki or Karatsu
from Tamba?
Rafael
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Yellin
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 2:03 PM
Subject: JAPAN
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Greetings from An American in Japan-
>Well, actually I've given up on all labels and just consider
>myself, first, grateful to be alive at the sametime as ya'all,
>and secondly, in no need of having to classify myself in whatever
>terms, whether nationality or occupation. Let other fool around with
>such trivial matters and do watch B. Dylan's masterful way of addressing
>such issues in that B&W movie he did in the sixties- what was the name?
>I wonder how DaVinci would have addressed this issue of labels.
>In any event, for those of you who might be interested in Japanese
>ceramics, I have started a discussion list on the subject and you
>can join by accessing www.onelist.com
>and searching my list- JapaneseCeramics.
>Since I'm not a potter, I shall sometime in the near future depart
>from your company which I have greatly enjoyed for the past two year or
>so,
>but what is time anyway, I sit here and drink a fine sake from a
>Kamakura
>period flask(1185-1333) poured into a Chosen cup(15th century)-
>how grand it would be if some soul a few centuries down the road
>cherished what
>you make- think about that prospect.
>Japan is alive with ceramics and that is why it is looked to with
>admiration.
>Yet, I don't know anything and to paraphrase Robert Bly, 'God's ocean is
>so
>large and my boat is so small..' what do I know?
>
>Go look out at the stars tonight wherever you are and ponder....
>
>>From Numazu,
>Robert Yellin
>
Rafael Molina on tue 2 mar 99
Robert:
Let me begin by saying I've enjoyed your contributions to the list
immensely. I've always been fascinated by all things Japanese; ceramics,
woodworking, metalwork, fibers, architecture, Zen Buddhism, Sumo, Kabuki,
sake, etc,... While I've never been to Japan, I feel that I know some
things vicariously through the many Japanese students that have enrolled in
my classes over the years; Aki, Hisae, Mami, Katsumasa, Hiroshi, Koji,
Naoko, Iako, et al.
Regarding your post, I was having a little trouble understanding how you
could first feel "no need of having to classify myself in whatever terms,
whether nationality or occupation. Let other fool around with such trivial
matters" and follow that with "fine sake from a Kamakura period
flask(1185-1333) poured into a Chosen cup(15th century)". Isn't Kamakura a
classification? It distinguishes one period or style from another. If you
coudn't use the label Kamakura then the flask could be called Edo, Meiji or
Momoyama. Or perhaps, the Chosen cup could be called Raku. If we didn't
have labels then how could we distinguish Bizen from Shigaraki or Karatsu
from Tamba?
Rafael
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Yellin
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 2:03 PM
Subject: JAPAN
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Greetings from An American in Japan-
>Well, actually I've given up on all labels and just consider
>myself, first, grateful to be alive at the sametime as ya'all,
>and secondly, in no need of having to classify myself in whatever
>terms, whether nationality or occupation. Let other fool around with
>such trivial matters and do watch B. Dylan's masterful way of addressing
>such issues in that B&W movie he did in the sixties- what was the name?
>I wonder how DaVinci would have addressed this issue of labels.
>In any event, for those of you who might be interested in Japanese
>ceramics, I have started a discussion list on the subject and you
>can join by accessing www.onelist.com
>and searching my list- JapaneseCeramics.
>Since I'm not a potter, I shall sometime in the near future depart
>from your company which I have greatly enjoyed for the past two year or
>so,
>but what is time anyway, I sit here and drink a fine sake from a
>Kamakura
>period flask(1185-1333) poured into a Chosen cup(15th century)-
>how grand it would be if some soul a few centuries down the road
>cherished what
>you make- think about that prospect.
>Japan is alive with ceramics and that is why it is looked to with
>admiration.
>Yet, I don't know anything and to paraphrase Robert Bly, 'God's ocean is
>so
>large and my boat is so small..' what do I know?
>
>Go look out at the stars tonight wherever you are and ponder....
>
>>From Numazu,
>Robert Yellin
>
Pat logue on wed 3 mar 99
I would like to put my two cents in on this one.As a 2-d artist turned
clay fanatic, i've faced down the demons of self doubt that I think
assail most fledgeling artists in most mediums.In my opinion,imitation
not only teaches you but, maybe more importantly,keeps you working and
exposed to the medium.There's nothing like those little victories when
you sit back and say "yes, i've accomplished something!",whatever form
it takes.
I think if you look hard enough, most any design element has it's roots
somewhere in history.
On the other hand,I would prefer borrowing the idea of a design,putting
my own spin on it and, in a sense, making it mine.
In short,if it makes you grow as an artist,do it,but try to make it
evolve into your own thing.
currently assaulted by those demons on the"business" end of clay
Pat Logue
Karen L. Cejka wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Thanks for the encouragement, Roger Korn, in your response to Vince. As
> a 2nd year potter who's totally hooked on clay, handbuilding and
> prehistoric Native American forms and designs, I had been feeling
> somewhat apologetic about what I do because it is derivative.
>
> However, the results of several aberrant forays into different "styles"
> or assigned projects and my own creative form efforts were so ugly and/or
> unsatisfying that I threw them out, and decided to go with the flow until
> this works its way out of my system (if it ever does). I also find
> inspiration in sub-Saharan West African and Zairian works in clay, and
> lately also Minoan/Mycenean forms. The forms speak to me.
>
> I find that, even if I do try to COPY a pot I especially like, I usually
> make a "mistake", which forces me to find a solution to the problem I've
> created for myself, whether it's in the form or the surface design. That
> really gets the creative juices flowing, and the pot ends up being
> "mine". Additionally, trying to copy something has led me to try things
> on my own that I have no idea how to do. I've learned so much!
>
> Don't we all have to start somewhere? Vince, would you expand on the
> quote below?
>
> Meanwhile, the clay feels alive under my hands, I feel connected to the
> earth and my pots sing.
>
> Karen Cejka
> Dayton, OH
>
> On Mon, 1 Mar 1999 15:28:33 EST Roger Korn writes:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >Vince wrote:
>
> >"... If we are looking for inspiration, we can certainly find plenty in
> the only
> >truly indigenous American ceramics - Native American. But it is not
> really
> >appropriate to follow those stylistic directions without direct
> cultural/family lineage..."
>
> Roger responded:
>
> >Why isn't it appropriate? If it moves, informs, and inspires you, go
> with it.
>
> >McKay Creek Ceramics
> >
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Vince Pitelka on wed 3 mar 99
>Thanks for the encouragement, Roger Korn, in your response to Vince. As
>a 2nd year potter who's totally hooked on clay, handbuilding and
>prehistoric Native American forms and designs, I had been feeling
>somewhat apologetic about what I do because it is derivative.
>Don't we all have to start somewhere? Vince, would you expand on the
>quote below?
>>Vince wrote:
>>"... If we are looking for inspiration, we can certainly find plenty in
>the only
>>truly indigenous American ceramics - Native American. But it is not
>really
>>appropriate to follow those stylistic directions without direct
>cultural/family lineage..."
Karen -
I like the post from Celia, who said "Because whites tried genoicide then
tried to homogenize Indians, hasn't enough been stolen without taking the
culture and selling it for a profit too??!!!!!!!" You can immitate the work
of long-gone ancient cultures all you want, and while it might show a lack
of original creativity, if you do the work well people will certainly
respect your commitment and accomplishment. As I said in an earlier post,
immitation has its place as a learning experience But beyond that, if you
do immitations of the work of existing tribal cultures, then you are
stealing their cultural heritage. In our own hemisphere, cultures that have
been horribly abused by European and American expansion are justifiably
proprietary about their artistic traditions. As I said above, we can
certainly find plenty of inspiration in this work. It is perfectly OK to be
be inspired and influenced by it. But unless you are a decendant of the
particular culture, copying the shapes and designs as a product for sale is
very creepy.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Nir Navot on sat 8 jan 00
I'll be spending a few days arround Tokyo next month. Would you give me your
recommendations for a three-day visit of ceramics/potteries?
Many thanks,
Nir (nir@gamidagen.co.il)
Linda Blossom on thu 2 mar 06
I made a return visit to Japan this last April and
enjoyed the many small shops with pottery that were
in Kamakura and Kyoto. Kamakura is south of Tokyo
but it sounds like you are heading across the
country in the other direction. In Kyoto, you want
the Gion district. You probably have a good travel
guide or map and any taxi can take you there.
Linda
Mike Gordon on fri 11 mar 11
I looked through my archives of clayart e-mails looking for "Mike" in
Japan to see how he survived the earthquake, but I couldn't locate his
e-mail address. Anybody check on him? Mike Gordon
Lee on sat 12 mar 11
Mike , is pretty far away from the epicenter in
Kyushu. Mashiko is several hundred miles away, but had a pretty hard
shake. The island of Honshu moved 2.3 meters, so everyone felt it. Her=
=3D
e
is Euan Craig's narrative from Mashiko:
http://euancraig.blogspot.com/2011/03/we-are-safe.html
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Mike Gordon wrote:
> I looked through my archives of clayart e-mails looking for "Mike" in
> Japan to see how he survived the earthquake, but I couldn't locate his
> e-mail address. Anybody check on him? Mike Gordon
>
--=3D20
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he land
of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
itself." -- John O'Donohue
Mike on sun 13 mar 11
Dear Mike,
Thank you for your concern.
We are ok here. We did get tsunami warnings for the coast, but nothing
became of it thankfully. In either case we are quite a bit inland and
surrounded by mountains, so waves are not a concern for us.
Relatives and friends in Tokyo and they have reported in that they are
ok. The quake near Tokyo was not as devastating as the first one up near
Sendai. We were worried for a bit as cell phone service was out temporarily=
.
Watched the news as it was happening in disbelief, as the waves moved
inland downing every structure, smashing it all up, then carrying it all
back out to sea. Yesterday evening the death toll was up to 1500 and I
suspect will keep rising. Still, it could have been much, much worse.
Very hard to wrap one's mind around the idea of a wave moving at 400mph.
Now the worry seems to be the Nuclear reactor in Fukushima. There was a
large explosion, and they extended the evacuation from 10km radius to
20km radius. All sorts of officials on TV, swearing up and down there is
little or no contamination. After seeing the explosion, I am skeptical.
Looks like the wind is taking it all northwest. There is a nuclear
reactor about an hour from here on the coast, but they were not
affected. I'll be seeing a friend today who works there and plan to pick
his brain a bit about what is happening in Fukushima, from a
professional's point of view.
Our hearts go out to all of the potters and other people affected by
this tragedy.
Mike
in Taku, Japan
http://karatsupots.com
http://karatsupots.blogspot.com
Workshop in Taku, Spring 2012: To Be Announced
(2011/03/12 4:00), Mike Gordon wrote:
> I looked through my archives of clayart e-mails looking for "Mike" in
> Japan to see how he survived the earthquake, but I couldn't locate his
> e-mail address. Anybody check on him? Mike Gordon
>
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