John Britt on thu 16 oct 97
Boy what a hot topic,
(I think it is a publicity stunt secretly organized by NCECA.)
Perhaps the discussion has gotten a little too personal. It should be on
the principles of running a show. There are generally accepted
standards in juried shows, something many of us pay hundreds of dollars
per year to participate in. There are many rules to these shows and many
are unsopken.
Of course, the jurors should not be in the show. To me it is obvious.
IF, it is a juried show!! Now, if it were an Invitational Show with a
call for slides, then that would be a different story. Just a slight
semantic difference.
I think the problem here is that the show is meant to be an Invitational
Show and was mis-labeled. I don't think it was malice, I just think the
organizers were unfamiliar with the standard language of juried shows.
Another area that this is evidenced is in the main body of the
prospectus: a call of entries for contemporary potters. This is very
confusing especially if you want only functionl work. Usually you use
the easier version, "no sculpture", or "Functional Work Only". (Because
a "potter" could make, both functional and sculptural work and then
would have difficulity selecting the appropriate pieces.)
But all this can be easily overlooked if you consider-- it was FREE to
enter. Not many of those left!!
One thing I can say is that it is getting the greatest publicity of any
show to date!!! I hope it lives up to the hype!! We are all counting on
you now!
P.S. Thanks for all the work putting the show together.
On to another subject...
I am wondering if the most recent addition of a "handling fee" is
becoming standard? I have seen two shows add a $25.00 handling fee in
addition the the regular jury fee, and shipping to and from. I find
this particularly infurating.
Is this becoming routine? Any thoughts??
--
Thanks,
John Britt claydude@unicomp.net
Dys-Functional Pottery
Dallas, Texas
http://www.dysfunctionalpottery.com/claydude
Dannon Rhudy on sat 18 oct 97
....I am wondering if the most recent addition of a "handling fee"
is
becoming standard? I have seen two shows add a $25.00 handling
fee in
addition the the regular jury fee, and shipping to and from. ...
John Britt claydude@unicomp.net
John,
I don't know about it becoming "standard". I had noticed also
that several shows were requiring a "handling fee" if work was
accepted.
Ceramics USA does not require a "handling fee". But this time
around, we WILL require that return shipping be included with
the shipped piece. Last show was a nightmare, and, as Jean
Lehman says, several people never did pay for shipping, phone
calls and letters were overwhelming, and it just became
unmanagable. Since our funding is minimal, and we prefer to use
sponsor funds for juror, expenses, prize money, etc., we have had
to alter the way the work is handled. But it will still just be
a matter of paying shipping to and from. We "handle" it at no
charge. For pay, we get the fun of unboxing some great stuff. It
all works out.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
Murray & Bacia Edelman on thu 24 jun 99
Dear Friends: The subject of juried shows has been through the wash and
wrung out many times.
I have to get personal to ask for suggestions re my dilemma. I am now
looking at an application form for OUT OF CLAY II which is to be juried by
Susanne Stephenson, whose work I admire. Slides due by June 30th.
The application states that besides "Artists pay all shipping costs", not
unusual any more, and the jurying fee, that "All reasonable care will be
taken with your works and slides but we will assume no liability for damage
or loss of any kind from any cause." All I can say is Wow! And why am I
still feeling competitive enough to submit to this?
Most of you know I have been kicking around for decades, finished grad
school 49 yrs. ago, which makes me "elderly" though I sure don't feel or
even look it. So why do I even try for some of these shows? My work has
appeared in books. There is the Y2K show for cyberspace, which costs
nothing except parting forever with a slide. You can't help me answer
that. I cannot do what Mel (I mean mel) suggests because I don't produce
quantities of functional work and thus have an open gallery for all within
50 miles.
I have new work of which I am very proud. A prince of a potter in the
area allowed me to place 5 pieces in his anagama kiln fired for 8 days!!
and they are the best pieces I have made in ages. I have a gallery
representing me in Door County, WI but those recent works might end up just
stored there because they sell mostly paintings and outdoor sculpture. So
I am considering this OUT OF CLAY show in Dexter, MI, a suburb of Ann
Arbor, I hear.
I kind of wonder how badly those of us who compete need to part with the
$20 jury fee ($5 additional if more than 3 submitted works) plus U.P.S.
both ways and plus maybe purchasing new boxes if necessary, plus commission
if sold. Sure, I am using you all as a sounding board, but what do you
think if juried shows are in your realm???? Is the artist shafted?
I am grateful that I can use my cyberfriends to consult for reaction and
thank you very much for listening to all this.
Bacia Edelman Madison, Wisconsin
Barbara Lewis on fri 25 jun 99
Bacia: My gut reaction to what you have said is, "If on this day you feel
as though you would like your work seen and judged by this specific juror,
and want another audience for the work, then do it." On another day, you
might not feel that it is worth the trouble. The difference between these
two days might be a matter of a week or even days. I guess "frame of mind"
is what I'm talking about. Your work certainly doesn't need validation -- it
has been seen and enjoyed by thousands. If it doesn't feel right, don't do
it. There will be other opportunities. As far as artists being or feeling
shafted, I guess it's just "frame of mind." Barbara
At 12:44 PM 6/24/99 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Dear Friends: The subject of juried shows has been through the wash and
>wrung out many times.
>I have to get personal to ask for suggestions re my dilemma. I am now
>looking at an application form for OUT OF CLAY II which is to be juried by
>Susanne Stephenson, whose work I admire. Slides due by June 30th.
>
>The application states that besides "Artists pay all shipping costs", not
>unusual any more, and the jurying fee, that "All reasonable care will be
>taken with your works and slides but we will assume no liability for damage
>or loss of any kind from any cause." All I can say is Wow! And why am I
>still feeling competitive enough to submit to this?
>Most of you know I have been kicking around for decades, finished grad
>school 49 yrs. ago, which makes me "elderly" though I sure don't feel or
>even look it. So why do I even try for some of these shows? My work has
>appeared in books. There is the Y2K show for cyberspace, which costs
>nothing except parting forever with a slide. You can't help me answer
>that. I cannot do what Mel (I mean mel) suggests because I don't produce
>quantities of functional work and thus have an open gallery for all within
>50 miles.
> I have new work of which I am very proud. A prince of a potter in the
>area allowed me to place 5 pieces in his anagama kiln fired for 8 days!!
>and they are the best pieces I have made in ages. I have a gallery
>representing me in Door County, WI but those recent works might end up just
>stored there because they sell mostly paintings and outdoor sculpture. So
>I am considering this OUT OF CLAY show in Dexter, MI, a suburb of Ann
>Arbor, I hear.
>I kind of wonder how badly those of us who compete need to part with the
>$20 jury fee ($5 additional if more than 3 submitted works) plus U.P.S.
>both ways and plus maybe purchasing new boxes if necessary, plus commission
>if sold. Sure, I am using you all as a sounding board, but what do you
>think if juried shows are in your realm???? Is the artist shafted?
>I am grateful that I can use my cyberfriends to consult for reaction and
>thank you very much for listening to all this.
>Bacia Edelman Madison, Wisconsin
>
Wellspring Clayworks
5412 Well Spring Road
La Plata, MD 20646
blewis@crosslink.net
(301) 932-3915
Jim Bozeman on fri 25 jun 99
I never do juried shows. Ever. My work was deemed not good enough to get
into the Southern Highlands Craft Guild but I have my work in the collection
of the Director of the National Endowment for the Humanities in Washington,
D.C. Go figure that one?! Jim Bozeman
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
Susan Fox Hirschmann on fri 25 jun 99
In a message dated 6/24/99 11:53:36 AM EST, medelman@facstaff.wisc.edu writes:
<< if sold. Sure, I am using you all as a sounding board, but what do you
think if juried shows are in your realm???? Is the artist shafted?
I am grateful that I can use my cyberfriends to consult for reaction and
thank you very much for listening to all this >>
Well, i gotta agree with everything you said. And i have gone from a 2
dimension world of a fine artists 25 years ago, to a potter.
You know, barry, that the artists are the only "entertainment" industry where
the entertainer has to pay to entertain the crowds. What gives here?
You know for years i have been crying "UNION" to all my friends. artists,
potters, craftsmen.....that we just all join together and form a union to
advance, yeah even take back, our RIGHTS. After all the doctors are gonna do
it. And they at least make a living wage, but they are crying foul after
years of bilking insurance companies and the companies fighting back, now
they too will form a union.
For after all, perhaps it is the power of many over the power of one.
So you have broached an issue that has long rubbed me the wrong way, and
maybe we can continue this lively discussion and come up with a solution!
What do you say out there, other clayart'ers----shall we form a UNION????
susan fox hirschmann
annandale, virginia
Joanne L. Van Bezooyen on sun 27 jun 99
Have any of you potters grouped together once or twice a year to put on
your own 'juried' show?......as a way to:
1. Become 'known'
2. To earn money
?????????????????????????????
Joanne L. Van Bezooyen on sun 27 jun 99
Have any of you potters grouped together once or twice a year to put on
your own 'juried' show?......as a way to:
1. Become 'known'
2. To earn money
?????????????????????????????
Joyce Lee on sun 27 jun 99
Tom Wirt said:
> promoters are apparently now doing mass mailings. I assume they get mailing l
Interesting statement, Tom. I want to preface by saying that I am in no
way "ready" for promotion in any juried show worth its label. It's
possible I would never be, since I started this gig with absolutely
minimal talent and in the youth of my old age. Okay by me. However, even
I have received unsolicited applications and telephone calls to enter
shows for which I have no qualifications. (I'm not talking about
claybuds who've sent me apps just so I could see what it's all about ...
thank you for those.) One caller was polite but disbelieving when I
refused his offer to travel a couple hundred miles ... implied that
potters were "lined up" to get in his show. BUT the one that I'm
considering framing if I can find it again is the two applications I
received from a fairly well known southern California college for a job
teaching ceramics! One application was accompanied by a general "to the
public" form letter. The other was a "special, individual, personal,
private" (all these designations were used) message ... most likely a
"form letter" itself disguised to appear "personal etc." I am NOT being
modest when I say that I am not in any way qualified, which they would
rapidly discover. What a time waster for all parties! I have taught
part-time (meaning low on the pay scale) in a university but CERAMICS???
What's going on with this business?
Joyce
In the Mojave going out to creep as close as their six harried sitters
will let me get, and watch the tiniest baby quails I've been privileged
to observe ... hidden in the depths of the big ancient creosote bush ...
Joyce Lee on sun 27 jun 99
Tom Wirt said:
> promoters are apparently now doing mass mailings. I assume they get mailing l
Interesting statement, Tom. I want to preface by saying that I am in no
way "ready" for promotion in any juried show worth its label. It's
possible I would never be, since I started this gig with absolutely
minimal talent and in the youth of my old age. Okay by me. However, even
I have received unsolicited applications and telephone calls to enter
shows for which I have no qualifications. (I'm not talking about
claybuds who've sent me apps just so I could see what it's all about ...
thank you for those.) One caller was polite but disbelieving when I
refused his offer to travel a couple hundred miles ... implied that
potters were "lined up" to get in his show. BUT the one that I'm
considering framing if I can find it again is the two applications I
received from a fairly well known southern California college for a job
teaching ceramics! One application was accompanied by a general "to the
public" form letter. The other was a "special, individual, personal,
private" (all these designations were used) message ... most likely a
"form letter" itself disguised to appear "personal etc." I am NOT being
modest when I say that I am not in any way qualified, which they would
rapidly discover. What a time waster for all parties! I have taught
part-time (meaning low on the pay scale) in a university but CERAMICS???
What's going on with this business?
Joyce
In the Mojave going out to creep as close as their six harried sitters
will let me get, and watch the tiniest baby quails I've been privileged
to observe ... hidden in the depths of the big ancient creosote bush ...
Marie E.v.B. Gibbons on sun 27 jun 99
Oops, I accidently sent this back to Patrick, instead of the group, so here
goes again-
In a message dated 6/25/99 5:52:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, terjakp@fiu.edu
> writes:
>
> << Well, the dilemma rears its ugly head once again this week!!!
> I have
> found that I base applying to entry-fee required shows based on a
> number
> of factors: 1) is there a lot of prize money offered for more than
> one prize?
> 2) is the show held at a reputable museum or gallery?
> 3) how expensive will the crating/shipping be for the work
> you are submitting?
> 4) is there a good likelyhood that your work would sell from
> the venue if selected for inclusion?
> 5) have you ever seen an exhibition that was juried by the
> juror for this exhibit before(I like Susanne, but have never seen a
> show she has juried)
> 6) do you have reproduction quality images of the works you
> are submitting? they just might put you on the cover of the catalog
> if your image is really good!?!
> 7)are they printing a catalog? or do they try to get images
> published in another format(periodical/internet)?!?
>
> My feelings are - if they put on really professional exhibits it is
> worth
> it to submit to fee-based exhibits - I usually apply to about 6-10
> per year
> just to keep exhibiting all across the US - good luck!
>
> patrick in miami beach - >>
>
> There are always 2 sides to a coin. I think Patrick's "factors" are very
> good points to think about before you consider submitting for a juried
> exhibition.
>
> I try to apply to between 4 and 6 reputable shows a year. I always
consider
> the show itself, what kind of work are they looking for, will my work fit,
is
> there opp for award monies and or sales. Who is the juror, would it be
> advantageous for my work to go before this person, and is this a person who
I
> respect as an artist and a "judge" of works. What is the shipping cost
that
> will be involved, etc. etc. etc..
>
> On the flip side of a show, I think often jury fees are a form of control
on
> mass entries, many people do not think about the appropriatness of their
work
> to the call for entry, and where sitting at home and saying what the heck i
> will send slides anyway doesn't seem like much, when 100 other people to
the
> same thing, and the gallery or jurors need to sit and review 1200 slides,
one
> third or more that are not appropriate for the show . . . well that is a
> differnt story. Someone needs to sit and spend hours to select the works
that
> will make the strongest show. We have all gone to shows and left saying
what
> were they thinking? Been dissapointed in what was selected - right? In
> addition the gallery needs to put on a reception, buying food, drink, maybe
> providing music, have maintained pedestals, fresh paint on the walls that
> often means repainting pedestals and walls between every show. Dont get me
> wrong, I am not feeling sorry for galleries - i do think that alot take
> advantage, they have the best advantage of anyother retail business in
> America, they can get work for free, display it, have a beautiful venue
> filled with beautiful work and then not pay for it till they have been paid
> for it - that is a huge advantage, but they also are expected to do alot as
> well, and the good reputable places do a nice job of it.
>
> Again it all comes back to those factors, we have to make business
decisions
> for ourselves when we want to apply for a show. We cannot just blindly be
> sending out our slides and keeping our fingers crossed. We need to be
smart
> about what we select to apply to. The jury fees help me to do that, I need
> to think of it as an investment towards my artistic future, building a good
> strong impressive resume, what looks like the best bet.
>
> so, although some of these juried shows dont do what we should expect with
> our jury fees, many do, and I think we need to keep that in mind. And try
to
> see the flip side of the coin.
>
> Marie Gibbons
>
Marie E.v.B. Gibbons on sun 27 jun 99
Oops, I accidently sent this back to Patrick, instead of the group, so here
goes again-
In a message dated 6/25/99 5:52:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, terjakp@fiu.edu
> writes:
>
> << Well, the dilemma rears its ugly head once again this week!!!
> I have
> found that I base applying to entry-fee required shows based on a
> number
> of factors: 1) is there a lot of prize money offered for more than
> one prize?
> 2) is the show held at a reputable museum or gallery?
> 3) how expensive will the crating/shipping be for the work
> you are submitting?
> 4) is there a good likelyhood that your work would sell from
> the venue if selected for inclusion?
> 5) have you ever seen an exhibition that was juried by the
> juror for this exhibit before(I like Susanne, but have never seen a
> show she has juried)
> 6) do you have reproduction quality images of the works you
> are submitting? they just might put you on the cover of the catalog
> if your image is really good!?!
> 7)are they printing a catalog? or do they try to get images
> published in another format(periodical/internet)?!?
>
> My feelings are - if they put on really professional exhibits it is
> worth
> it to submit to fee-based exhibits - I usually apply to about 6-10
> per year
> just to keep exhibiting all across the US - good luck!
>
> patrick in miami beach - >>
>
> There are always 2 sides to a coin. I think Patrick's "factors" are very
> good points to think about before you consider submitting for a juried
> exhibition.
>
> I try to apply to between 4 and 6 reputable shows a year. I always
consider
> the show itself, what kind of work are they looking for, will my work fit,
is
> there opp for award monies and or sales. Who is the juror, would it be
> advantageous for my work to go before this person, and is this a person who
I
> respect as an artist and a "judge" of works. What is the shipping cost
that
> will be involved, etc. etc. etc..
>
> On the flip side of a show, I think often jury fees are a form of control
on
> mass entries, many people do not think about the appropriatness of their
work
> to the call for entry, and where sitting at home and saying what the heck i
> will send slides anyway doesn't seem like much, when 100 other people to
the
> same thing, and the gallery or jurors need to sit and review 1200 slides,
one
> third or more that are not appropriate for the show . . . well that is a
> differnt story. Someone needs to sit and spend hours to select the works
that
> will make the strongest show. We have all gone to shows and left saying
what
> were they thinking? Been dissapointed in what was selected - right? In
> addition the gallery needs to put on a reception, buying food, drink, maybe
> providing music, have maintained pedestals, fresh paint on the walls that
> often means repainting pedestals and walls between every show. Dont get me
> wrong, I am not feeling sorry for galleries - i do think that alot take
> advantage, they have the best advantage of anyother retail business in
> America, they can get work for free, display it, have a beautiful venue
> filled with beautiful work and then not pay for it till they have been paid
> for it - that is a huge advantage, but they also are expected to do alot as
> well, and the good reputable places do a nice job of it.
>
> Again it all comes back to those factors, we have to make business
decisions
> for ourselves when we want to apply for a show. We cannot just blindly be
> sending out our slides and keeping our fingers crossed. We need to be
smart
> about what we select to apply to. The jury fees help me to do that, I need
> to think of it as an investment towards my artistic future, building a good
> strong impressive resume, what looks like the best bet.
>
> so, although some of these juried shows dont do what we should expect with
> our jury fees, many do, and I think we need to keep that in mind. And try
to
> see the flip side of the coin.
>
> Marie Gibbons
>
Susan Fox Hirschmann on sun 27 jun 99
In a message dated 6/26/99 12:25:41 PM EST, KLeSueur@AOL.COM writes:
<<
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
In a message dated 6/25/99 8:51:51 AM, Hirsch616@AOL.COM writes:
<< For after all, perhaps it is the power of many over the power of one.
So you have broached an issue that has long rubbed me the wrong way, and
maybe we can continue this lively discussion and come up with a solution!
What do you say out there, other clayart'ers----shall we form a UNION????
susan fox hirschmann >>
The Michigan Guild of Artists and Artisans started out as an "artists union".
But it became the most oppressive entity in the art world. It crushed the
egos of more people than I could count. And it didn't matter who was in
power. Once they got there they through their weight around too. When given
the chance to take back their Guild, the members were either too scared of
retaliation by the powers that be, or they didn't care enough to come to the
meeting to do it. Everyone wants someone else to do it.
Kathi LeSueur
>>
hi Kathi
as a fellow michigan guild member, i am familiar with your response.
I live 8 hours from the meetings, and other than the annual one, when i am in
town, cannot attend the others. But i guess what i am suggesting is a wider
based, nationswide (OKAY guess we could consider canada too?) group than the
michigan guild of artists. of course in any group, personalities always seem
to "get in the way" of accomplishing goals. Cliques form, diversity
presupposes antagonism,
rivalries persist. And often the goals are lost somewhere in all of that.
oh well.
Just a suggestion. AFter all it does seem that we all have a "beef" with the
entire hi booth fee -jury fee system as it exists. We clayarters seem to be
a different group, more concerned with each other, At least that is what i
perceive is happening here on this listsev. Just wish there was something we
could do, as a group, to change those exorbitant fees and the other problems
connected with juried shows.
regards,
susan
susan fox hirschmann
annandale, va
Susan Fox Hirschmann on sun 27 jun 99
In a message dated 6/26/99 12:25:41 PM EST, KLeSueur@AOL.COM writes:
<<
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
In a message dated 6/25/99 8:51:51 AM, Hirsch616@AOL.COM writes:
<< For after all, perhaps it is the power of many over the power of one.
So you have broached an issue that has long rubbed me the wrong way, and
maybe we can continue this lively discussion and come up with a solution!
What do you say out there, other clayart'ers----shall we form a UNION????
susan fox hirschmann >>
The Michigan Guild of Artists and Artisans started out as an "artists union".
But it became the most oppressive entity in the art world. It crushed the
egos of more people than I could count. And it didn't matter who was in
power. Once they got there they through their weight around too. When given
the chance to take back their Guild, the members were either too scared of
retaliation by the powers that be, or they didn't care enough to come to the
meeting to do it. Everyone wants someone else to do it.
Kathi LeSueur
>>
hi Kathi
as a fellow michigan guild member, i am familiar with your response.
I live 8 hours from the meetings, and other than the annual one, when i am in
town, cannot attend the others. But i guess what i am suggesting is a wider
based, nationswide (OKAY guess we could consider canada too?) group than the
michigan guild of artists. of course in any group, personalities always seem
to "get in the way" of accomplishing goals. Cliques form, diversity
presupposes antagonism,
rivalries persist. And often the goals are lost somewhere in all of that.
oh well.
Just a suggestion. AFter all it does seem that we all have a "beef" with the
entire hi booth fee -jury fee system as it exists. We clayarters seem to be
a different group, more concerned with each other, At least that is what i
perceive is happening here on this listsev. Just wish there was something we
could do, as a group, to change those exorbitant fees and the other problems
connected with juried shows.
regards,
susan
susan fox hirschmann
annandale, va
Ray Aldridge on mon 28 jun 99
At 11:44 AM 6/27/99 EDT, you wrote:
>> On the flip side of a show, I think often jury fees are a form of control
>on
>> mass entries, many people do not think about the appropriatness of their
>work
>> to the call for entry, and where sitting at home and saying what the heck i
>> will send slides anyway doesn't seem like much, when 100 other people to
>the
>> same thing, and the gallery or jurors need to sit and review 1200 slides,
>one
>> third or more that are not appropriate for the show . . . well that is a
>> differnt story. Someone needs to sit and spend hours to select the works
>that
>> will make the strongest show.
This rationale was put forward by someone associated with a big Toronto
show. He said that they charged a $25 jury fee and got 1000 entries. Then
he said that if they didn't charge a fee they feared they'd get twice as
many and they couldn't afford to hire staff to screen that many entries.
Well, $25,000 is a lot of money to pay for the jurying of 1000 entries, so
I don't understand the part about not being able to hire folks to do the job.
Let's assume that they charge only $5 as a non-returnable jurying fee, next
year, and do get twice as many entries. That means they'd still have
$10,000 to spend on jurying, which should be more than adequate.
I'm afraid I believe that high jury fees are just another way to skin
artists. I wouldn't quibble with a fee to cover reasonable expenses, but
most are too high to be anything but a cash cow for the show sponsors. The
saddest thing about these fees is that they primarily victimize those who
are least able to afford the cost of entering the shows-- unknowns and
journeymen. No doubt the promoters shed few tears over skinning these
folks or discouraging them from applying, but from the unknowns and the
journeymen of today come the stars of tomorrow, and high jury fees are a
real disincentive for new and talented blood. No wonder the shows are
acquiring a reputation for artistic anemia.
Ray
William Hewlett on tue 29 jun 99
------------------
Ray,
Thank you for expressing my thoughts and sentiments on the issue. It saved
me the energy. Maybe I really didn't feel like getting carried away with
this if my views were considered =22Marxest=22 anyway.
Joyce A
Rimas VisGirda on sun 6 nov 11
I've been loosely following the juried show posts. The discussion is mixing=
two types of shows...
SHOWS aka ART FAIRS where you set up a booth and typically schlep your ware=
s
SHOWS aka EXHIBITIONS where you submit a piece (or 3) for jurying and if ac=
cepted you send it to a venue where it is placed on exhibition for a certai=
n amount of time, like in a gallery...
These two types of SHOWS are VERY different and comments or complaints abou=
t one type does not necessarily apply to the other... Both types of shows h=
ave good as well as bad examples and vary in costs. Selling at an ART FAIR =
can cost anywhere from $100 (local fair booth fee) to $2500 ($600-800 booth=
fee, hotel, meals, travel). As a generalization, local fairs will have les=
s qualified jurors than national fairs, so you will see more mediocre work =
at local fairs... I have tried selling at both types, especially when I was=
teaching and needed a venue to move my demos... Entering EXHIBITIONS runs =
around $100, jury fee and shipping if the work is accepted. These also vary=
in "quality" depending on the venue and jurors.
Mel wrote about sending a body of work for exhibition, that type of event i=
s neither of the above mentioned. The costs for that would amount to the co=
st of crating/packing and shipping plus travel if you were to attend the op=
ening reception...
Regards, -Rimas
KATHI LESUEUR on sun 6 nov 11
On Nov 6, 2011, at 7:21 AM, Lis Allison wrote:
> On November 5, 2011, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>>>=3D20
>> Of course the work of many of the best ceramic artists is so
>> identifiable that you immediately know who's work it is....
>>=3D20
> Unless it is someone emulating (I am avoiding the word 'copying' for
> obvious reasons) the well-known artist's work.>>>>>
To add to my previous post:=3D20
We all know the big names like Steven Hill. But, often there are potters =
=3D
who don't show a lot and who's work gets copied. The copier is the one =3D
who becomes prominent and gets the recognition for the work. I saw this =3D
several times at the Guild. One potter I felt was a serial copier. The =3D
work would change every several years and people who didn't know would =3D
say, "Did you see ____'s new work. Isn't it great." That potter just =3D
found a new person to copy from. This is one of the factors that makes =3D
jurying hard.
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
John Britt on sun 6 nov 11
Reminds me of Chris Staley, who had a Comment in May 2000 Ceramics Monthl=
=3D
y=3D20
called "Copying vs Creating" where he apologized for copying a students w=
=3D
ork and=3D20
put it in a catalogue as his work. His advertising machine was so fast th=
=3D
at the=3D20
student couldn't compete.
Johnbrittpottery.com
Gayle Bair on sun 6 nov 11
This thread now brings up an interesting issue.
One of the first workshops I ever attended the presenter demonstrated a
newspaper stencil/slip technique.
Two of my friends were drawn to it and started making their own stencil
work. They were at a show and selling their work
(with their own designs). Suddenly they were accosted by the potter who did
the workshop and accused them of stealing and copying
her work! I was quite chagrined by this behavior and noted the potential
for this person to have major meltdowns as there were probably 50 people at
that workshop.
Often I share my sgraffito techniques and must say experienced a slight
kick in the pants when one of my friends pretty much copied me. BUT then I
took a closer look and no way did it come as close as my own work. And it
kicked me in the pants and my work morphed into a new level.
When (1996) I first started in clay I didn't have a clue what I wanted to
make so I studied books, magazines, images of all kinds of art ancient &
historical work. I admit I copied but becauseI felt guilty I rarely sold
what I was drawn to until I found my voice.
BTW... Chris Staley was the presenter for the first pottery workshop I ever
attended! He did a critique of one of my favorite pieces.
I was royally annoyed because he said it was not narrative enough! But
that stayed in my head for all these years. I'm still working on it and I
think perhaps I finally have a handle on it!
So where do you stand on copying?
Gayle
--
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island WA
Tucson AZ
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:08 AM, John Britt wro=
te:
> Reminds me of Chris Staley, who had a Comment in May 2000 Ceramics Monthl=
y
> called "Copying vs Creating" where he apologized for copying a students
> work and
> put it in a catalogue as his work. His advertising machine was so fast
> that the
> student couldn't compete.
>
> Johnbrittpottery.com
>
Lee on sun 6 nov 11
On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 12:08 PM, John Britt wro=
=3D
te:
> Reminds me of Chris Staley, who had a Comment in May 2000 Ceramics
> Monthly called "Copying vs Creating" where he apologized for copying a
> students work and put it in a catalogue as his work. His advertising
> machine was so fast that the student couldn't compete.
The sadist pots are made when the potter copies himself. When you
copy yourself, you close yourself off to growth. New things arise where
two minds meet!
Check out this video interview with Mackenzie and how Hamada explains thar
"The second pot is always the worst pot." Because it is a copy of the
first pot. "If you make 100 pots, then perhaps you will exceed the first
pot."
http://youtu.be/RfxSFVaVfRg
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he land
of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
itself." -- John O'Donohue
Clay art on mon 7 nov 11
This is a sad story Mike. I guess that kind of thing happens. Wonder what
happened to people's pride for craftsmanship, because putting a proper show
together is like putting a piece of art together from found objects, found
objects of a kind...................
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Mike Gordon
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:08 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Juried shows
Here's a story for you. A couple of years ago I entered a National Juried
Show here in Walnut Creek, Ca. The Juror was a nationally known potter. One
of the requirements was that the work had to have been done in the last
three years. Well, when I was teaching I used to demonstrate a lot with
25lbs. or more for my advanced students. I bisque fired them and some I jus=
t
brought home and put a plastic bag over it to keep it clean. So for the sho=
w
I brought one out that had been thrown & bisque fired about 5 years earlier=
,
my name and date scratched in the foot. I glazed it and it was accepted!
Well I agonized that the juror would see the date and reject it, based on
the date on the bottom... it wasn't. Well at the opening, I noticed a wall
piece that was a coffee cup holder, it held about 6 cups. It was white,
looked like porcelain with a clear glaze over it. I was thinking to myself,
WOW this person could really throw cups really well, they were perfectly
identical! So being the kinda guy that likes feet on everything, I pressed
my cheek to the wall to get a better look at the feet on the cups. There wa=
s
a sign.... "DON"T TOUCH" so I had to really crane my neck to get a good
look. There in clear blue stencil was...
"MADE IN JAPAN"!! I guess I shouldn't have worried so much. HA! Mike Gordon
Mike Gordon on mon 7 nov 11
Here's a story for you. A couple of years ago I entered a National
Juried Show here in Walnut Creek, Ca. The Juror was a nationally known
potter. One of the requirements was that the work had to have been done
in the last three years. Well, when I was teaching I used to
demonstrate a lot with 25lbs. or more for my advanced students. I
bisque fired them and some I just brought home and put a plastic bag
over it to keep it clean. So for the show I brought one out that had
been thrown & bisque fired about 5 years earlier, my name and date
scratched in the foot. I glazed it and it was accepted! Well I agonized
that the juror would see the date and reject it, based on the date on
the bottom... it wasn't. Well at the opening, I noticed a wall piece
that was a coffee cup holder, it held about 6 cups. It was white,
looked like porcelain with a clear glaze over it. I was thinking to
myself, WOW this person could really throw cups really well, they were
perfectly identical! So being the kinda guy that likes feet on
everything, I pressed my cheek to the wall to get a better look at the
feet on the cups. There was a sign.... "DON"T TOUCH" so I had to really
crane my neck to get a good look. There in clear blue stencil was...
"MADE IN JAPAN"!! I guess I shouldn't have worried so much. HA! Mike
Gordon
Rimas VisGirda on tue 8 nov 11
Hi Mike, early on I used to use a "MADE IN WHEREVER" stamp to mark/sign my =
=3D
work wherever I made it, sometimes I also signed with my signature. When I =
=3D
started to teach workshops or go to residencies I had a "MADE IN WHEREVER" =
=3D
stamp made to stamp my demos or work done in residency. When I started to t=
=3D
ravel internationally with opportunities to make work in situ, I also have =
=3D
a stamp made. I particularly enjoy having work stamped "MADE IN CHINA" and =
=3D
"MADE IN TAIWAN" currently still unsold in the studio... Mostly, now, my wo=
=3D
rk is stamped "MADE IN ILLINOIS" and as a statement about the USA going bil=
=3D
ingual, I now have a decal that I fire on that says "HECHO IN ILLINOIS'" an=
=3D
d "HECHO EN ILLINOIS"... I have heard that I lost a sale of a very nice scu=
=3D
lpture because the (potential) buyer noticed a "Made in Illinois" stamp at =
=3D
the bottom edge of the piece... -Rimas=3D0A=3D0AHere's a story for you. A c=
oupl=3D
e of years ago I entered a National=3D0AJuried Show here in Walnut Creek, C=
a.=3D
The Juror was a nationally known=3D0Apotter. One of the requirements was t=
ha=3D
t the work had to have been done=3D0Ain the last three years. Well, when I =
wa=3D
s teaching I used to=3D0Ademonstrate a lot with 25lbs. or more for my advan=
ce=3D
d students. I=3D0Abisque fired them and some I just brought home and put a =
pl=3D
astic bag=3D0Aover it to keep it clean. So for the show I brought one out t=
ha=3D
t had=3D0Abeen thrown & bisque fired about 5 years earlier, my name and dat=
e=3D
=3D0Ascratched in the foot. I glazed it and it was accepted! Well I agonize=
d=3D
=3D0Athat the juror would see the date and reject it, based on the date on=
=3D0A=3D
the bottom... it wasn't. Well at the opening, I noticed a wall piece=3D0Ath=
at=3D
was a coffee cup holder, it held about 6 cups. It was white,=3D0Alooked li=
ke=3D
porcelain with a clear glaze over it. I was thinking to=3D0Amyself, WOW th=
is=3D
person could really throw cups really well, they were=3D0Aperfectly identi=
ca=3D
l! So being the kinda guy that likes feet on=3D0Aeverything, I pressed my c=
he=3D
ek to the wall to get a better look at the=3D0Afeet on the cups. There was =
a =3D
sign.... "DON"T TOUCH" so I had to really=3D0Acrane my neck to get a good l=
oo=3D
k.=3DA0 There in clear blue stencil was...=3D0A"MADE IN JAPAN"!! I guess I =
shou=3D
ldn't have worried so much. HA! Mike=3D0AGordon=3D0A
Michael Mahan on tue 8 nov 11
I just got back from a juried arts festival (Great Gulfcoast Arts
Festival) in Pensacola, Florida. It was a great show. Well-run and
organized. I brought what I thought was some of my nicer work in
hopes of competing for an award. The morning of judging, I noticed
the judge at my booth, so I stood up to be available for any
questions. Out of the blue, this guy outside my booth walks by and
yells into my booth: "Hey, the judges are taking bribes this year.
This is the first year they're allowing bribes."
I can't remember how I reacted exactly. I think I tried to laugh it
off as a joke. Maybe I was looking a bit too serious, and this guy
wanted to lighten things up. I had worked my butt off getting ready
for the show, drove 14 hours, and someone decides it would be fun to
yell into my booth at the judge. Am I taking all this too seriously?
At any rate, sales were good, and we had a great visit with my
brother, mother and sister who live in the area. We'll be back again
next year if we're juried in. What I noticed at the show as far as
ceramics was that there seemed to be exhibitors who brought pieces to
sell and exhibitors who brought pieces to be judged. Those that
brought pieces for judging, for the most part, displayed on pedestals
and brought one particular kind of work. Those who wanted to sell
brought a variety of work and displayed on shelves. This is a
generalization, I know, but I'll be thinking of ways to create a
booth next year that has pedestals and shelves, and I'll carry a long
stick to whack anyone who starts yelling into my booth....
Michael Mahan
From the Ground Up
172 Crestwood Road
Robbins, NC 27325
910-464-6228
www.fromthegrounduppots.com
mahanpots@rtmc.net
Lee on tue 8 nov 11
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 7:13 AM, Rimas VisGirda wrote:
> Hi Mike, early on I used to use a "MADE IN WHEREVER" stamp
I use a "place stamp" or "kiln stamp" next to my personal stamp. I
stamped the Kanji "Mashiko" in Japan. I am currently using a peace
sign here in Mpls.
I've considered also stamping with the Asian zodiac year and
element of the year. Helps collectors date your work.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
KATHI LESUEUR on thu 10 nov 11
On Nov 8, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Michael Mahan wrote:
> I just got back from a juried arts festival (Great Gulfcoast Arts
> Festival) in Pensacola, Florida. It was a great show. Well-run and
> organized.....
>=3D20
> ...What I noticed at the show as far as
> ceramics was that there seemed to be exhibitors who brought pieces to
> sell and exhibitors who brought pieces to be judged. Those that
> brought pieces for judging, for the most part, displayed on pedestals
> and brought one particular kind of work. Those who wanted to sell
> brought a variety of work and displayed on shelves. >>>
When people used to ask me how to tell if pots were "craft" or "art" I'd =
=3D
tell them that if the pots were on shelves they were "craft" if they =3D
were on pedestals they were "art". In my booth I use both. About half of =
=3D
the space is taken by pedestals and half with shelves. So, I'm both and =3D
artist and a craftsperson I guess.
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
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