jpleak on sat 11 jan 97
I am in need of some specific technical information and would like help from
the clayart people. We are in the process of getting a new ceramic and
sculpture building taking us from the fourth floor to the ground. This is
exciting and frustrating. The real problem is that my input is minor and
the architects have never walked through the studio to see what I do or how
I use the facility. I will be moving in two parts as it stands now, the
grad studio and advanced space in phase one and the beginning studio in
phase two. I knew I had to get the gas line in the first part of the
building as the 2nd part is an extention and the main lines were my top
priority. It's in and I had them put a kiln room in the space even though I
will not be moving the two 30 year old Alping updraft kilns until phase 2. I
am having trouble with the system they have designed into the kiln room for
kiln ventilation, stacks. They have 3 openings and they are square hoods
going into stacks and then into a diagonal pipe that is on a 35 degree pitch
from what I can see. Above all of the stacks they have fans (electric) in
the diagonal unit. This unit goes into a right angle and then up a stack 10
feet and is capped off. I have asked for three straight stacks. I have no
idea of my budget and what type of kilns I will put in the new space. The
two Alpines are a 24 and a 12 cu ft. They have left an 18" space above the
kilns to expose the damper, this is similar to the hoods I have on the
Alpines now. They have assured me that this system is going to work, and
they will not change it. Has anyone out there had any dealings with this
type of situation and do you have any ideas I can use. They seem to think
that I really do not know anything. I will send the plans to anyone who can
help me. Oh they haven't started construction yet as the sight is an old
college dump area and they have to clean it up first! My main concern is to
get the most useable and adaptable space. I do not think the 2 Alpine kilns
will make the move off of the 4th floor as they will go down on a crane, The
elevator is to old to move any thing. They have the same kind of hoods
designed for the electric kilns. I havn't found any information that can
help in any of the kiln building books. Any ideas and assistence I would
greatly appreciate. Thanks. Jane Pleak
e-mail jpleak@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu
or write
Box 8032
Art Department
Georgia Southern University
Statesboro, GA 30460-8032
Phone Studio 912-681-5395
Home 912-764-6365
Marcia Selsor on sun 12 jan 97
Dear Jane,
I had to live with some BS chinmney and ventilation system from a rookie
engineer for 14 years because "they" didn't consult me or believe that I
knew anything. First, I was given a class C vent system to hook kilns
into..equivalent to a water heater for "appliance"fire code. I wrote a
letter with copies all the way to the Commissioner of Higher Ed. warning
that this was insufficient for kiln exhaust temperatures and I would not
build kilns to hook into that system because we would burn down the
building.
As a response to that, I got a $4500 piece of pipe with two horizontal
(I'm talking 90 degree with field barometers) pipes going into a common
veritical stack.
All I requested was 2 holes in the ceiling (1980). On my second
sabbatical, one of my 3 replacements, Jo Reid-Smith, complained about
the situation after there had been a fire above the burn out kilns of
the outdoor foundary.Upon my return from a 2nd Fulbright stint, this
time in Central Asia, I had to rebuild the ceramics kilns because they
had been shut down upon word from up above. Luckily, I finally got 2
holes in the ceiling for individual stacks for my two indoor gas kilns.
I don't want to say have patience. It took 14 years to get a decent
draft. Maybe you should suggest to the engineers to consult with
professionals for free here on Clayart. Have them talk with some GUYS
who can satisfy their ineptitude about fire, draft, and etc. I think
therein lies the problem.
Marcia in Montana (still here after 22 years of the good 'ol boy BS)
I have designed+ built all the kilns and run the ceramics program here
for 22 years and, hey, we still have a ceramics program in Billings 240
miles from Archie Bray despite some jr. engineer hooking kilns up to
water heater vents!.
--
Marcia Selsor
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/
mjbmls@imt.net
sam wainford on sun 12 jan 97
The diagonal chimney has probably been designed by the industry
standards for natural draw, and shouldn't be a problem. The exhaust fan
inside the diagonal unit seems "iffy" to me. Too often I have seen red
heat 16 feet high in my chimney to believe that drive belts for the fan
wouldn't melt, and blades wouldn't warp. An exterior forced air blower
place outside the diagonal with various speed settings to assist the
draw of heat up and out would be preferable. Even better if it could
blow hot air for initial draw. An off/on switch would be feasible(and
easy to install later if necessary) if the unit were outside the actual
chimney. If inside, it will no doubt have to be constantly running so
it won't burn up.
Sam
WardBurner@aol.com on sun 12 jan 97
Jane,
You gave us a lot of info. about your situation, but failed to mention the
diameter of these stacks. That will have an impact on your project. Ask the
architects two questions; What is the CFM capacity of the inline fans and
what is their ambient temperature rating. If they don't know, well...they
obviously don't know what they're doing in regards to kiln venting. Those
questions may get their attention and cause them to listen to your concerns.
Both of these kilns will exhaust about
Marcia Selsor on mon 13 jan 97
Jane,
To add to Marc's advice, does anyone have any idea what the temperature
would be on the stack about ten feet out of the kiln,
say at ^10? Appliance code is designated at 600 F degrees. I think we'd
all agree that kilns' stacks are hotter than that.
Marcia in Montana where the high today was -16F.
WardBurner@aol.com wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Jane,
>
> You gave us a lot of info. about your situation, but failed to mention the
> diameter of these stacks. That will have an impact on your project. Ask the
> architects two questions; What is the CFM capacity of the inline fans and
> what is their ambient temperature rating. If they don't know, well...they
> obviously don't know what they're doing in regards to kiln venting. Those
> questions may get their attention and cause them to listen to your concerns.
> Both of these kilns will exhaust about
--
Marcia Selsor
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/
mjbmls@imt.net
J PLEAK on mon 13 jan 97
Marc,
From what I can tell on the drawing two of the stacks are 16" dia and One is
18" dia the hoods at the square end touch. The flue they go into I can not
tell the dimention? Your suggestion is great Thank you I will let every one
know. Jane
At 10:12 PM 1/12/97 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Jane,
>
>You gave us a lot of info. about your situation, but failed to mention the
>diameter of these stacks. That will have an impact on your project. Ask the
>architects two questions; What is the CFM capacity of the inline fans and
>what is their ambient temperature rating. If they don't know, well...they
>obviously don't know what they're doing in regards to kiln venting. Those
>questions may get their attention and cause them to listen to your concerns.
>Both of these kilns will exhaust about
>
WardBurner@aol.com on mon 13 jan 97
Jane,
It appears my last post got cut off in mid stream. Let's try again.....
You gave us a lot of info. about your situation, but failed to mention the
diameter of these stacks. That will have an impact on your project. Ask the
architects two questions; What is the CFM capacity of the inline fans and
what is their ambient temperature rating. If they don't know, well...they
obviously don't know what they're doing in regards to kiln venting. Those
questions may get their attention and cause them to listen to your concerns.
Both of these kilns will each exhaust about 150 CFM (cubic feet per minute)
or 9000 CFH (cubic feet per hour). As far as the ambient temperature rating
needed for blowers, that's iffy. Fan Location, amount of reduction, fresh air
entrainment, ect. will all affect what type fans are needed. Feel free to
give me a call regarding your problem or I'll be happy to consult with the
architects on the project.
Marc Ward
Ward Burner Systems
PO Box 333
Dandridge, TN 37725
USA
423.397.2914 voice
423.397.1253 fax
wardburner@aol.com
Lawrence L. Anderson on mon 13 jan 97
Dear Jane,
What ever you do make sure you get it right and the way you want it!
Don't be intimidated by the supossed archetectual exspurts! You and your
students will be stuck with the results of their labors not those
involved in the construction. The problem with putting the fans or
blowers in the diagonal stack is that the motors burn out unless they can
be isolated somehow from the heat and soot in the stack. This
necessitates constant replacement problems, not just once every few
years. My suggestion is stay away from stacks and forced air. If
possible move the kilns outside under an open air cover where the sun
shines, but allows for natural draft. As a student at CSU San Jose in
Sunny California long ago (sixties, when the sun used to shine here) I
saw a great air curtain device in front of the kilns with hoods directly
over high above the flue openings of the kilns. It seemed to work great,
but alas, I haven't seen anything like it since. Good luck and happy
potting. Later, Larry
Richard Gralnik on wed 22 jan 97
With all the discussion about chimney stacks and venting out of a closed
room, I thought I'd run my design up the flagpole in the hopes that
someone can tell me if they think I'm ok or I need to modify my design.
The vent hood and shed design is mine, with a lot of valuable input from
John Baymore.
Basically, I'm making a Geil kiln clone, 47" wide by 36" deep by 48"
high (outside dimensions) with an 18" x 18" chimney the same height
as the kiln. It will be in an 8'x8' all metal shed (steel tube uprights
and rafters, and sheet metal walls and ceiling) on a 4" concrete slab.
I've built a hood for the kiln to vent out of the shed. It is will sit
on top of the kiln, 2" above the kiln at the lowest point, and tapering
up from there to a 3 foot chimney directly above the kiln chimney. The
hood has 3" of clearance all round the kiln and kiln chimney (plus the
added space of the hood rectangle where it extends beyond the firing chamber
to enclose the kiln chimney). The hood is built from 16 gauge 1" tube
steel, with a skin of 20 gauge aluminized steel sheet metal (used in
high heat applications from what I've been told).
TOP VIEW:
+---------------------+
| +----------+ |
| | | |
| | +------+ |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | +------+ |
| | | |
| +----------+ |
+---------------------+
SIDE VIEW:
/----------\ (angled cap with fiber for heat buffer)
| | (4" opening to let heat, gases escape)
|----------|
| |
| |
| |
| |
+-------------------------------+ (shed roof)
| |
/ | (actually a smooth 1 foot slope up)
_______------/ | (actually a smooth 1 foot slope up)
/__________________________| (actually a smooth 1 foot slope up)
+---------------+-------+ (top of kiln and chimney)
The kiln chimney inside dimension is 9"x9". The hood chimney is 27"x25"
and is 3 feet high to exit the shed with 2 feet of clearance. It
will have a layer of fiber under the cap to keep heat from building
up under the cap. There is a 4" gap all round under the cap for the
heat and gases to escape.
PLEASE tell me this sounds adequate...(or doesn't)
Thanks,
Richard
| |
|
