Jonathan Kaplan on wed 4 dec 96
So I am reading, again all the clayart mail and there's the kiln shelf
thread again and I of course I am ready ty go to the delete key, but I will
wait untill I post this because I have a question.....
When this subject came up last time, and indeed it was the same issues with
much in the same areas of replies and suggestion, and all the same talk
about pricing and which is better for what and on and on. OK, so thats
fine. I sent in some information regarding other sources of non-silicon
carbide composititions and waxed eubulently about how well they worked for
me in my studio/factory situation. And, knowing how potters are always
hesitant to spend money, especially big money,that these cordierite
compositions are so much cheaper and with the exception of soda/salt/wood
situtations, will last as long or perhaps longer than the new SiC
compostions, and are very light weight...etc.etc.....
I for one, would not spend a huge amount of money per shelf if I knew that
with a bit o' research, there are products that perform, or out perfrom the
expensive ones and a much more affordable price. So really, the question is
about change, about trying new materials, and ultimately, saving some
money.I have no vesetd interest in any of the companies that I recommended,
nor do I care about how much money others erroneously spend. But would it
not seem prudant that If a nitride bonded shelf is say $150 ( and I can't
remember the exact $$) and a dry pressed cordierite composition is about
$23 and change, and the weight, performance, etc., is the same, what makes
better sense here?
I think that perhaps what bothers me is that having spent the last 28 years
making pots, I built alot of equipment, purchased alot of the same, spent
too much money on somethings, got some great deals on others, but always
done the research. Sometimes we potters don't see the light, and end up
with machinery that requires far and above too much time for maintenance,
fixing, etc. because for a bit more money, we could have purchased a better
performer, or we spend thousands for shelves that could be obtained for
well under half that. While I understand that we each have a learning
curve specific to our own perceptions of our world, and we each follow a
path that is specific and uniquite to us, IMHO, I might do some more
research and save some money at the same time.
For instance, I purchased a used ball mill many years ago. A great deal.
WHile it did start up and turn those rollers, it was grossly underpowered
for rolling two # 5 jars. So I buffed it out, new bearings, drive, etc.,
alot of time, money and effort, and whaddaya know, it still doesn't work
right, it gathers dust because I need to install toothed belts and
companion sprockets/sheaves and for all the extra effort and time, I could
have purchased a new US Stoneware single tier mill and have saved myself
alot of aggrevation.
Jonathan...waiting on 2 crates from Acme Marls/England with dry pressed
cordierite shelves, posts, Gimson setters, etc.
Jonathan Kaplan
http://www.craftweb.com/org/jkaplan/cdg.shtml
(aka "Scooter)
jonathan@csn.net
Ceramic Design Group Ltd./Production Services Voice:
970-879-9139 POB 775112
FAXmodem: same
Steamboat Springs, Colorado 80477, USA CALL before faxing
"Arrive on time, tell the truth, be a good listener, and don't
be too attatched to the results. Above all, maintain a sense of
humor!"
Talbott on thu 5 dec 96
Jonathan
I contacted the pottery supply place in Richmond Hill, Ontario,
Canada back in Sept. after having received various information on the
shelves and here is the info I got on Acme Marls High Aumina Kiln shelves
--for cone 10 reduction firings:
12x24x1 wt. 21 lbs for $42 ea
12x24x3/4 wt.15 lbs. for $34 ea.
The price and other info I have from New Castle on there SiC
Nitride Bonded shelves 10-11 reduction firings is as follows:
12x24x1/2 wt. 13 lbs. for $49 ea....
I can't see where the advantage of the high alumina shelves is when
these are the figures that I get when I call to inquire on placing an
order... What am I missing? (besides a brain of course)
Regards... Marshall
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>So I am reading, again all the clayart mail and there's the kiln shelf
>thread again and I of course I am ready ty go to the delete key, but I will
>wait untill I post this because I have a question.....
>
>When this subject came up last time, and indeed it was the same issues with
>much in the same areas of replies and suggestion, and all the same talk
>about pricing and which is better for what and on and on. OK, so thats
>fine. I sent in some information regarding other sources of non-silicon
>carbide composititions and waxed eubulently about how well they worked for
>me in my studio/factory situation. And, knowing how potters are always
>hesitant to spend money, especially big money,that these cordierite
>compositions are so much cheaper and with the exception of soda/salt/wood
>situtations, will last as long or perhaps longer than the new SiC
>compostions, and are very light weight...etc.etc.....
>
>I for one, would not spend a huge amount of money per shelf if I knew that
>with a bit o' research, there are products that perform, or out perfrom the
>expensive ones and a much more affordable price. So really, the question is
>about change, about trying new materials, and ultimately, saving some
>money.I have no vesetd interest in any of the companies that I recommended,
>nor do I care about how much money others erroneously spend. But would it
>not seem prudant that If a nitride bonded shelf is say $150 ( and I can't
>remember the exact $$) and a dry pressed cordierite composition is about
>$23 and change, and the weight, performance, etc., is the same, what makes
>better sense here?
>
>I think that perhaps what bothers me is that having spent the last 28 years
>making pots, I built alot of equipment, purchased alot of the same, spent
>too much money on somethings, got some great deals on others, but always
>done the research. Sometimes we potters don't see the light, and end up
>with machinery that requires far and above too much time for maintenance,
>fixing, etc. because for a bit more money, we could have purchased a better
>performer, or we spend thousands for shelves that could be obtained for
>well under half that. While I understand that we each have a learning
>curve specific to our own perceptions of our world, and we each follow a
>path that is specific and uniquite to us, IMHO, I might do some more
>research and save some money at the same time.
>
>For instance, I purchased a used ball mill many years ago. A great deal.
>WHile it did start up and turn those rollers, it was grossly underpowered
>for rolling two # 5 jars. So I buffed it out, new bearings, drive, etc.,
>alot of time, money and effort, and whaddaya know, it still doesn't work
>right, it gathers dust because I need to install toothed belts and
>companion sprockets/sheaves and for all the extra effort and time, I could
>have purchased a new US Stoneware single tier mill and have saved myself
>alot of aggrevation.
>
>
>
>Jonathan...waiting on 2 crates from Acme Marls/England with dry pressed
>cordierite shelves, posts, Gimson setters, etc.
>
>
>Jonathan Kaplan
>http://www.craftweb.com/org/jkaplan/cdg.shtml
>
>
>(aka "Scooter)
>jonathan@csn.net
>Ceramic Design Group Ltd./Production Services Voice:
>970-879-9139 POB 775112
>FAXmodem: same
>Steamboat Springs, Colorado 80477, USA CALL before faxing
>
>
>
> "Arrive on time, tell the truth, be a good listener, and don't
> be too attatched to the results. Above all, maintain a sense of
> humor!"
Celia & Marshall Talbott
Pottery By Celia
Route 114
P.O. Box 4116
Naples, Maine 04055-4116
(207)693-6100 voice and fax
clupus@ime.net
Jonathan Kaplan on fri 6 dec 96
Marshal:your pricing is probably more update than mine on the nitride
bonded shelves, and I am in error if my numbers were erroneous, but there
has been lots of mispostings on this list, perhaps I fell into this crack.
For example, I am bringing over two crates of refractories, due in a few
weeks from Acme Marls and Gimson (setters). There were a few other potters
involved in this deal, but suffice it to say, that for my shelf size, 14" x
28" x 1" the price for the shelf is $23.98 each. My share of the interocean
freight, brokerage, customs, etc. (all handled by a broker) is in the
neighborhood of
of 42% of the total shipment, so the same percentage can be applied to each
shelf, $10.07 for a total of $34.05. Sounds good to me for this product.
If the price on nitride bonded shelving is competative, I would guess the
choice is one of personal preference.
My first shelves in a production situation we some standard SiC puppies,
from Carborundum, (Keasby New Jersey...hey, remember those
deals??)purchased in 1973 and added to in 1975. They were sold with my kiln
in 1990 or so, and when I last saw them, they were in great shape, a little
warpage, but still smooth and very useable.
I purchased a load of "Alcorit" shelves from Spinx Refractories (Holland)
now Hewit Technical Ceramics, in 1980. I still use these in my new car kiln
and they are in fine condition, still flat as a board, no cracking, etc. 26
years old and still...take a beating keep on ticking.......
I researched the current "Alcorit" shelves and they were priced at about
$45.00 less freight.
I purchased Acme Marls products after lengthy research and conversations
with both industry users here and their rep here, Dave McCuen, in Ohio.
Seemed to me to be fine materials for my purposes.
I am unsure how these would work in salt, soda, or wood. But their "Remcor"
composition is an industry standard.
Rumor has it that Ferro may be coming out witha new cordierite composition.
Don't know what the skinny is on that yet.
Good Luck with your gallery and shelf search. If I can be of any
assistance, let me know.
Best
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan
Ceramic Design Group Ltd./Production Services
PO Box 775112
Steamboat Springs CO 80477
jonathan@csn.net
(970) 879-9139*voice and fax
http://www.craftweb.com/org/jkaplan/cdg.shtml
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