Toni Hall on mon 11 aug 97
I have a question about kiln vents. I have built a small studio,
and had planned to put my Skutt 1027 and small old Paragon in one corner.
I know not to be in the studio when the kilns are firing, but now I am
worried about venting the gases and heat even after the firing. At first I
thought of building an addition onto the side of my studio, and placing the
kilns there, but it would add more to the expense than I care to do. So
now I am considering a kiln vent, but when looking through the various
source books, I see there are over-the-kiln vents (like over a stove) and
downdraft vents (that look simplistic like a dryer vent). All of these
pretty much run about $400.00, which is still more than I would like to
spend.
My questions are these:
1. Do these contraptions draw of toxic fumes and heat?
2. Does anyone know of simple/inexpensive way to design one of these vents?
Any suggestions or help would be appreciated. TIA
Toni in New Mexico
Dannon Rhudy on tue 12 aug 97
Toni,
Some time back Mel Jacobson described a simple inexpensive vent
that he has on his kiln, works beautifully, cost VERY little, no
moving parts, only just a bit of work to put it on. Look in the
archives for the post, or maybe he will forward it to you or to
the list again.
My own experience of over-the-kiln vents with hoods is that
they don't work worth a damn, the ones we used in grad school
were essentially decorative. The fans simply did not move
enough air (and whatever) through. But they were noisy.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
I have a question about kiln vents. I have built a small
studio,
and had planned to put my Skutt 1027 and small old Paragon in one
corner.
All of these
pretty much run about $400.00, which is still more than I would
like to
spend.
Lynn Korbel on tue 12 aug 97
Greetings everyone!! My studio (it was once our den) is in my home--just off
the dining room. I am desperate for a kiln of my own, but for now am having
to rely on a shop that does low-fire pieces for people. As my pots sell, the
money is set aside for my kiln-to-be, and the electrician. I have been
planning to put the kiln inside in my studio, thought also of setting it out
under the carport. The climate here is very, very humid--and there is a
hurricaine every 10 years or so. But it is most important that i not pollute
the air in my home. So, my question to you all is--where should i install
this kiln-to-be?
I enjoy you all so much--your information, your stories, your humor are(is?)
all a joy!
Best Wishes,
Lynn; where it is at 100% humidity--even when its not raining
Dannon Rhudy on tue 12 aug 97
Don't worry about the hurricanes. Add
the kiln to your household windstorm policy. Given a choice,
I'd put the kiln outside. The ones at the college where I teach
are outside along with the gas & raku kilns. Don't know how old
the bisque kilns are, but far from new, and have had no problems
from being kept outdoors. Seldom freezes here, rains a lot,
high humidity all summer. I keep the lids down. Do you have
a lot of salt in the air? That might make a difference, if you're
really near the coast.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
- thought also of setting it out
under the carport. The climate here is very, very humid--and
there is a
hurricaine every 10 years or so.
the Gallagher's on wed 13 aug 97
Lynn,
I just had to write a note and say that you sound like where I'm ready to be!
Making the pots that will provide the kiln, so you can make more pots!!
My studio is in the basement. We are converting to a gas water heater, so I
will have a free line of power, but still need to up the breaker level.
In the mean time I do my firings at a community center, and soon at my
teachers studio. I'm ready to have more control of the firings.
Good luck with your studio, feel free to contact me if you want to chat with a
neophyte.
Michelle Gallagher
(still new at this after 25 years of dabbling)
----------
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List on behalf of Lynn Korbel
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 1997 6:55 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list CLAYART
Subject: Kiln Vent
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Greetings everyone!! My studio (it was once our den) is in my home--just off
the dining room. I am desperate for a kiln of my own, but for now am having
to rely on a shop that does low-fire pieces for people. As my pots sell, the
money is set aside for my kiln-to-be, and the electrician. I have been
planning to put the kiln inside in my studio, thought also of setting it out
under the carport. The climate here is very, very humid--and there is a
hurricaine every 10 years or so. But it is most important that i not pollute
the air in my home. So, my question to you all is--where should i install
this kiln-to-be?
I enjoy you all so much--your information, your stories, your humor are(is?)
all a joy!
Best Wishes,
Lynn; where it is at 100% humidity--even when its not raining
Ric Swenson on wed 13 aug 97
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Greetings everyone!! My studio (it was once our den) is in my home--just off
>the dining room. I am desperate for a kiln of my own, but for now am having
>to rely on a shop that does low-fire pieces for people. As my pots sell, the
>money is set aside for my kiln-to-be, and the electrician. I have been
>planning to put the kiln inside in my studio, thought also of setting it out
>under the carport. The climate here is very, very humid--and there is a
>hurricaine every 10 years or so. But it is most important that i not pollute
>the air in my home. So, my question to you all is--where should i install
>this kiln-to-be?
>I enjoy you all so much--your information, your stories, your humor are(is?)
>all a joy!
>
>Best Wishes,
>Lynn; where it is at 100% humidity--even when its not raining
-----------reply------------
Lynn,
Put your kiln outside. Health is more valuable than a kiln any
day....hurricane or not.
Ric
********************************************************************************
**********************FROM: Ric Swenson, Bennington College, Route 67
-A, Bennington, Vermont 05201-6001
802 442-5401 x 262 vox x 237 fax or dedicated fax 802 442-6164
email: rswenson@bennington.edu "Opinions expressed are mine.....
usual disclaimers apply."
********************************************************************************
**********************
Bill Aycock on thu 14 aug 97
Michelle- PLEASE- have the wire size checked as well as increasing the
breaker size. The wire normally used for Hot water heaters is NOT large
enough for most 220 volt kilns, even small ones.
Bill- worrying on Persimmon Hill
At 08:52 AM 8/13/97 EDT, you (Michelle Gallagher )
wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Snip---
>My studio is in the basement. We are converting to a gas water heater, so I
>will have a free line of power, but still need to up the breaker level.
>
Bill Aycock --- Persimmon Hill --- Woodville, Alabama, US 35776
--- (in the N.E. corner of the State) ---
also -- W4BSG -- Grid EM64vr
baycock@hiwaay.net
Janet H Walker on fri 16 apr 99
Jenny --
Good for you for deciding to get a kiln vent!! I'm completely sold
on this technology. The current "down draft" style vents were first
developed by the Orton Foundation in Westerville Ohio. That design
was licensed to Skutt, who builds one that is essentially the same
as the Orton KilnVent. Bailey has a vent with a somewhat different
design, in which you leave a peep open and pull the air out through
the lower side of the kiln. In the Orton/Skutt design, the air
comes down through the lid of the kiln and exits through the floor
of the kiln, with a small mixing fan right there immediately under
the kiln.
I have the Skutt version of the Orton design. I have had no problems
with it. I know people who have the Bailey vent and love it and other
people with the Bailey vent who have stopped using it for various
reasons that I don't understand but seem to be related to its design.
I would DEFINITELY get one of these designs rather than the hood style
vent or a simple exhaust fan.
...by drawing out the air, you add hours...
Well, not really. The amount of air that gets pulled through is
rather insignificant in heat loss terms. Most of the air is coming
from the room itself and is getting mixed with some small volume of
kiln air. You are losing far more heat through the underinsulated
lid than via the vent fan. The fan ITSELF does not lengthen firings
appreciably if you have good enough elements. With an already
underpowered kiln, the vent may draw enough extra heat to give you
longer firings. What the Skutt/Orton vent does do is to cool the
kiln faster, by several hours. The marketers have decided that this
is a feature desired by production potters. If it is not for you,
you fix it by turning off the vent when you reach top temp. The
Orton and the Bailey even have a little timer gizmo to help out with
this.
There is though another big issue that the draw-through vent fan
addresses -- getting a surplus of oxygen into the kiln in order to
give you clean bisque firings. The hood-type vent and the exhaust
fan basically do nothing for the interior of the kiln. They only
remove fumes etc that are already out of the kiln into the room air.
So you have to depend on leaky kiln joints and lids to let in oxygen
and also to let out the toxics from firing into the atmosphere. You
also have to depend on the ventilation system(s) in the surrounding
room(s) to always let the kiln vent dominate. To be honest, I would
not be comfortable with this design. It leaves you without direct
control over very important aspects of your studio -- clean
oxidation firings AND atmospheric safety.
Why not telephone the folks at Orton and just ask them for writeups
and opinions about the two kinds of vent systems. Orton is a
non-profit foundation, dedicated to research in ceramic practice. I
am confident that you will find someone there who will talk
thoughtfully with you about the issues. Maybe even the person who
designed the vent system in the first place. You will also find
some discussion of this in the ClayArt archives.
Yours in good health,
Jan Walker
Cambridge MA USA
Martin A. Arkowitz on thu 24 apr 03
.........you wrote....... The Bailey
version has it's out-take vent positioned on the side on the kiln, =
near the
bottom and I'm wondering if that creates a cool spot in the bottom =
front of
the kiln, opposite the vent. Do you know?
...............................
belinda--i have a cone art kiln with a bailey vent system and find =
that the coolest spot in my 7 cu ft kiln is the top shelf. the =
bottom is the hottest, then the middle is a bit coolerr and finally =
the top is the coolest. i have had this venting system for many =
years and find it works well to pull out most of the fumes. if you =
have any other question you can e-mail me off list.
eleanor arkowitz,
hanover,n. h.
Bobby Childs on fri 23 jan 04
My kilns are located in my garage/woodworking shop (which is detached from
my house) and it is not uncommon for me to be in the building while my
kilns are firing so fume removal is an issue because it seems even with my
large garage door open (when it is not too cold outside) I get a large
buildup of fumes during the early firing stages.
I have decided to build my own downdraft kiln vent and have read several
of the postings on this subject. My question is would it be feasible to
use the lower peephole as the output for the vent as two of my kilns sit
too close to the floor to be able to vent them through the kiln floor. I
also would not plan on running the vent at the later stages of the firing
so I could insert the plug for teh remainder of teh firing and cool down.
Thanks,
Bobby Childs
TBL Crafts
Phenix City, AL
www.tblcrafts.com
Chris Schafale on sat 24 jan 04
Bobby,
I suspect that the peephole is too large for this purpose. Floor-mount
downdraft vents require only two or three small (1/4" or less) holes in the floor
of the kiln. The ones that are vented through the side use, I believe, a single
3/8" or 1/2" hole -- which you could do as well -- just drill carefully so as not
to hit an element.
Chris
On 23 Jan 2004 at 21:04, Bobby Childs wrote:
> My kilns are located in my garage/woodworking shop (which is detached
> from my house) and it is not uncommon for me to be in the building
> while my kilns are firing so fume removal is an issue because it seems
> even with my large garage door open (when it is not too cold outside)
> I get a large buildup of fumes during the early firing stages.
>
> I have decided to build my own downdraft kiln vent and have read
> several of the postings on this subject. My question is would it be
> feasible to use the lower peephole as the output for the vent as two
> of my kilns sit too close to the floor to be able to vent them through
> the kiln floor. I also would not plan on running the vent at the
> later stages of the firing so I could insert the plug for teh
> remainder of teh firing and cool down.
>
> Thanks,
> Bobby Childs
> TBL Crafts
> Phenix City, AL
> www.tblcrafts.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
--
Light One Candle Pottery
Fuquay-Varina, North Carolina, USA
(south of Raleigh, NC)
www.lightonecandle.com
NEW email: chris at lightonecandle dot com
(insert the @ and . as appropriate)
william schran on sat 24 jan 04
Bobby wrote:>My question is would it be feasible to
use the lower peephole as the output for the vent as two of my kilns sit
too close to the floor to be able to vent them through the kiln floor.<
For my Bailey vent installation, I drilled a small hole (1/4", but
might be smaller) in the mid point of the lowest ring on the opposite
side from the spy holes. The top spy hole is left open when the vent
is running. The vent hose is attached to the kiln wall with some
washers acting as spacers that allows for the introduction of
secondary air.
Bill
Arnold Howard on mon 26 jan 04
From: "Bobby Childs"
> I have decided to build my own downdraft kiln vent. My question is would
it be feasible to
> use the lower peephole as the output for the vent as two of my kilns sit
> too close to the floor to be able to vent them through the kiln floor.
Bobby, I haven't tried it, but I think it would be feasible to vent your
kiln from a lower peephole. You will probably have to keep ware away from
that peephole.
The reason I think the idea is feasible is that I've seen a homemade vent
that vented from the side of the kiln rather than from the kiln bottom. One
motor vented several kilns. The owner said the vent worked well.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
arnoldhoward@att.net
Gordon Ward on mon 26 jan 04
Hi Bobby,
I vent 2 kilns with one plastic bilge blower (Grainger's). The blower is
located far enough away from the kilns so as to not get hot. The plastic
blower is a bit more expensive but will last at least 5 times longer than a
steel blower. I use rigid aluminium for the first 5 or 6 feet, this will
allow the gasses to cool, then I bring the ducting together with a "y" abs
drain fitting and then to plastic dryer ducting. You could use PVC as
Arnold has noted. By drilling small holes in the aluminium ducting near the
kiln you can fine tune the draft, while adding diluting/cooling air to the
exhaust gasses. I have no baffle to divert flow from one kiln to another -
doesn't seem to be necessary. To check how much the draft is, hold a small
flame (match or lighter) near the upper spy hole. The flame will suck into
the hole. I have also put in a few small drain holes out closer to the
blower for any condensed water to drip out.
You will need to have a sheet metal man spot weld a stainless ring with a
couple of flanges for attaching the aluminium ducting to the kiln's outer
wall. Don't worry if there are minor air leaks around the edges where the
flange meets the kiln.
After going through a couple of metal blowers, this has lasted for many
years. I have replaced the aluminium ducting maybe 4 times while the blower
is still going strong. There is some build-up of minerals on the inside,
but it still blows.
I use a lamp timer from the hardware store to have the blower turn off
automatically at or near the end of the fire.
I don't use the peep hole, but it should work.
Hope this is usefull,
Gordon Ward
> From: Arnold Howard
> Reply-To: Clayart
> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:06:21 -0600
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Kiln Vent
>
> From: "Bobby Childs"
>> I have decided to build my own downdraft kiln vent. My question is would
> it be feasible to
>> use the lower peephole as the output for the vent as two of my kilns sit
>> too close to the floor to be able to vent them through the kiln floor.
>
> Bobby, I haven't tried it, but I think it would be feasible to vent your
> kiln from a lower peephole. You will probably have to keep ware away from
> that peephole.
>
> The reason I think the idea is feasible is that I've seen a homemade vent
> that vented from the side of the kiln rather than from the kiln bottom. One
> motor vented several kilns. The owner said the vent worked well.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Arnold Howard
> Paragon Industries, L.P.
> arnoldhoward@att.net
>
Richard White on fri 3 feb 06
Exciting times are about to begin, I'm off to see the wizard tomorrow and
bring home my first kiln - an L&L. I'll need to reorganize and rewire the
garage and install a vent too. However, looking at the kiln vent kits sold
by the usual suspects for $300 and up, I'm not sure where the value added is
when compared to a $50 bathroom vent kit and $20 of sheetmetal dryer vent
piping from HomeDespot (plus the requisite cleverness noted in Vince's
excellent book...). From the assembled wisdom here, is there a reason why I
shouldn't use a conventional bathroom vent fan? Any other hints or advice?
Thanks,
dw
mtigges@NOSPAM.SHAW.CA on sat 4 feb 06
On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 08:55:51PM -0500, Richard White wrote:
> Exciting times are about to begin, I'm off to see the wizard tomorrow and
> bring home my first kiln - an L&L. I'll need to reorganize and rewire the
> garage and install a vent too. However, looking at the kiln vent kits sold
> by the usual suspects for $300 and up, I'm not sure where the value added is
> when compared to a $50 bathroom vent kit and $20 of sheetmetal dryer vent
> piping from HomeDespot (plus the requisite cleverness noted in Vince's
> excellent book...). From the assembled wisdom here, is there a reason why I
> shouldn't use a conventional bathroom vent fan? Any other hints or advice?
>
Ironic, since I just posted http://www.m2crafts.ca/vent.html. The
seemingly obvious cost issue for selling a vent is liability.
I went pricey on my fan for the simple reason that I didn't foresee
the fan lasting very long unless it was a squirrel cage, and the whole
fan section galvanised. So, I bought a relatively expensive 90CFM
furnace exhaust fan.
Regards,
Mark.
William & Susan Schran User on sat 4 feb 06
On 2/3/06 8:55 PM, "Richard White" wrote:
> From the assembled wisdom here, is there a reason why I
> shouldn't use a conventional bathroom vent fan? Any other hints or advice?
Dick - It's true, you don't need to buy the kiln manufacturer's vent system.
We have one at school because we needed the UL rating to satisfy the Fire
Marshall & Inspector.
I would recommend, however, using a squirrel cage type mechanism as you will
be venting both heat and corrosive fumes that might eat up the bathroom vent
fan too soon. Also you'll want to mount the motor away from the kiln. A
nearby window would be a bonus!
Ask me next time we see each other and I'll show you a couple of ways to
hook the vent system up to the kiln.
-- William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
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