frasera1@westatpo.westat.com on tue 2 apr 96
A friend lives in a high rise (she's on the 8th floor of 10) in
Washington D.C. and is considering installing an electric kiln.
Its not worth doing if she can't safely (given emissions and fire
hazards) go to 04, but her preference is way high - up to cone 10.
Does anyone have experience with kilns under these conditions?
What lessons did you learn and overall, would you do it again?
Thanks for your help,
Alexa Fraser
Email - FraserA1@Westat.com
(#1 not letter l)
Please feel free to respond off line -
Janathel M. Shaw on wed 3 apr 96
Huh?:
I don't think that is even a remote possibility. Your friend should give strong
consideration to searching for studio space. Why not try Willow Street Gallery
in Silver Spring, Hinckley Pottery, Pineridge Pottery, Lee Arts Center or
Baltimore Clayworks. These are all established ceramic enclaves. If she has to
have a private space, I'd still look for a separate studio, with plenty of room
and the contract freedom to install a proper ventilation system.
I'm sure someone else could break down the specifics for you on clayart.
Jasper Stil on thu 4 apr 96
I also live high on the 7th. floor of 10 - and the only possibility
offered to a hobbyist - as I see it is an electric kiln.
I have a Cromartie Kiln with Kiln Sitter - 40 litres - on wheels -
standing against a wall in the kitchen. The kitchen's floor is covered
with linoleum.
When fireing - biscuit and glaze up to cone 10 - I just pull the kiln
in the middle of the kitchen, so that it doesn't touch anything -
about one meter free all around.
My own precautions are to see to a good air circulation (windows
opened etc...) because of the smell - without any draught, not to do
any cooking if possible.
The linoleum as well as the wooden pieces of furniture around remain
cool and safe - and myself very healthy indeed.
Greetings
Marie-Claire
Karl David Knudson on fri 5 apr 96
On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Jasper Stil wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I also live high on the 7th. floor of 10 - and the only possibility
> offered to a hobbyist - as I see it is an electric kiln.
> I have a Cromartie Kiln with Kiln Sitter - 40 litres - on wheels -
> standing against a wall in the kitchen. The kitchen's floor is covered
> with linoleum.
> When fireing - biscuit and glaze up to cone 10 - I just pull the kiln
> in the middle of the kitchen, so that it doesn't touch anything -
> about one meter free all around.
What does your local Fire Marshal think of this situtation? Your Apt.
Manager? I've done my share of stupid and risky things (less now that
I've grown out of my "I'm immortal" stage), but this sounds excessive. I
could really care less about the gasses that a kiln gives off, the thing
that worries me about this situation is the fire danger. If you live
alone, go ahead and put your kiln in your living room and when it fails
and you burn your house down you (singular) lose. Put a kiln in your
living room in an apartment building, start a fire and burn the building
down. You and your neighbors (plural) lose. And that's if you get
really lucky and manage not to kill anyone.
Live longer, don't barbecue in the living room, don't fire a kiln in a
kitchen that's not designed for a kiln, and most importantly, don't
pit-fire in your car while driving, even if you roll the windows down.
Karl
C.T. Wagoner on sat 6 apr 96
>I could really care less about the gasses that a kiln gives off.
Start caring...NASTY STUFF!
I fire four large electric kilns in my home and I have both type of vents on
the kilns and a LARGE fan that pulls air through the basement. While you are
right that you do not want to burn yourself up or your neighbors....slow
death and cancer are not a good way to go as an alternative. If you want
more specifics on the horrible gases that are produced during firing let me
know. There is quite a list.
Breathing easy in Indiana.
cwag
Lgeese@aol.com on sun 7 apr 96
Call me paranoid. I was raised by parents who lost everything in a house
fire, so you can imagine the safety/obsessive lengths we went to in regard to
fire prevention in my formidable years. (Maybe firing ceramics is a
rebellion, who knows?) Anyway,
But I think if I knew someone in an apartment next door to me had a
kiln...I'd be worried. I used to be worried about some of my neighbors
(there's always at least one) being too drunk and falling asleep with a
cigarette in their hand...and me finding myself with no home, no stuff,
through no fault of my own.
Seems to me if you want to fire you should find a facility in which you can
do so. One that's set up for kilns..and kiln accidents. Or rent some studio
space...or share space/costs with another potter or ceramic hobbiest. I
mean, do we ever REALLY know the condition of the outlets, wiring, load
capacity, and degree of maintenance landlords put into the buildings in which
we've rented apartments?
Am I too paranoid? I'm curious what everyone else thinks of this...
Lisa in Des Moines - where the tornado warning sirens are going off - it's
only a drill - first Saturday of the month!
Karl David Knudson on sun 7 apr 96
On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, C.T. Wagoner wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >I could really care less about the gasses that a kiln gives off.
> Start caring...NASTY STUFF!
I may have not been clear in my original post. When viewing the relative
dangers of this type of firing I feel that the gasses evolved are
insignificant compared to the fire risk. For example: I'm standing knee
deep in a bucket of glaze with a high barium content. While this would
be considered quite hazardous, if at the same time you were holding a
..357 revolver to my head playing Russian Roulette. Am I really wise to
worry about barium poisoning when I have a 1 in 6 chance of having a 3"
hole in my forehead. You make the call.
Life is a series of relative risks,
Karl
Marie-Claire Stil on tue 9 apr 96
On Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:03:51 EST, you wrote:
>> When fireing - biscuit and glaze up to cone 10 - I just pull the kiln
>> in the middle of the kitchen, so that it doesn't touch anything -
>> about one meter free all around.
>
>What does your local Fire Marshal think of this situtation? Your Apt.
>Manager?
Nothing. It's perfectly legal (here, in "the old world"), because
these kilns are made for that. In fact, when my husband would buy me a
100 l. kiln of this type, meaning I'd need 3 separate groups at 320V,
they'll be very happy to install that for for me. It's a pitty you
snipped out the two most important things in my previous message: I
care a lot about good (fresh) air-circulation and the kiln doesn't
emit any heat by radiation at more than five centimeters all around
it. When arriving at 1300 C, my husband can still let his hand rest on
it! OK, not five minutes, but a while... The risk of over-heating some
oil while cooking is far more a probability than using this kiln made
for it. I know that because it happened to my brother in law: his
apartment burnt out when he had to go to the bathroom while making
some french fries in the kitchen... Knowing that, I'll bet you'll
never eat those again? :-)
You guys in the new world are so paranoid about security. Maybe it's
the difference in architecture material causing all these flames. I
know you still use a lot of wood in constructions, while use of this
material here in a proportion over 10% would make a house nearly
uninsurable. In fact, it wouldn't even get a permit. And let's be
realistic: there's no difference whatsoever between the concrete in
the basement and the concrete on my 7th. floor, but I'll give you this
one: if I were surrounded by wood, I wouldn't do it...
Greetings
Marie-Claire
Marie-Claire Stil on wed 10 apr 96
Hi Susan and all,
On 09 Apr 96 09:27:50 EDT, you wrote:
>Hi Marie-Claire,
>
>Just out of curiosity...where are you located? I'm just one of the lurkers on
>the list but I've read with interest about your kiln situation as I'm just
>beginning to get started and wanted to put a kiln in our basement - concrete
>block walls and floors but wood joist ceiling. My instructor has hers set up
>this way but a fire barrior covering the ceiling. My 2 cents worth is if you'r
>careful with the equipment you're working with and it's installed properly, the
>all should be fine. How many people in this world go to bed or lay down on the
>couch with a cigerette in their hand and catch themselves on fire???? A lot
>more than set their houses or shops on fire with a kiln.
I live in the Netherlands, near Rotterdam.
I've only been giving *my* example of kiln situation which I know is
perfectly safe for me, my family and my neighbours. Don't forget I
mentioned a kiln which is ment to be used like this. Before it could
ever be sold, it had to pass security tests as severe as in the
States. I've talked to many people, production potters and others, and
especially to the sales representative who has been potting for a long
time before getting my kiln in house.
I've manned a 125 l. electric kiln in a community facility where I
helped for free, and I can assure you I feel much safer with what I
have at home. Now, I do 2 days a week studio-time and the smell there
when the kiln is on (in another room, and that's more often than not)
is not to my mind as safe as home.
The two experiences combined lead to my idea that it's much safer on
my 7th. floor then in some basement, because it's much easier to
assure a good air-circulation in my apartment (openening all windows
and balcony-doors from west to east) then in the basement (windows
there, if existent, are not very large and you'd have to invest a lot
more in good, powerfull vens). With a wooden ceiling, I'm not so sure.
Your friend did right of course with that fire barrior, giving some
extra security. But my top-loader's vent-hole, when not closed, gives
much heat up to some 50 centimeters above it (you could cook on it...)
and it's still warm at a greater distance. Not that this goes on to
the ceiling, but my guess is that here too, you benefit from good
ventilation as it takes not only the gasses, but also much of the heat
away. Otherwise, that wood could dry out very fast as heat goes up and
will accumulate just under the ceiling, increasing the risk of a
fire...
Greetings
Marie-Claire
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