Monona Rossol on thu 17 apr 97
June Perry wrote:
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
And for those of us who color our hair, there is manganese and other
chemicals in that stuff. I had some blood tests done several years ago and I
was loaded with manganese, nickel, etc. I don't use manganese in my pottery
other than the odd glaze test periodically but it is in the hair dye. Same
goes for nickel. I rarely use the stuff but I did smoke in my youth and there
is nickel in cigarettes. It's also in solder for those who do jewelry work or
other soldering which I also did for a while. Aluminum causes alzheimers and
a lot of us grew up eating food that was cooked in aluminum pots and are
drinking sodas from aluminum cans, not to mention that a lot of restaurants
still use aluminum cookware, not to mention aluminum foil. Many of us grew up
in older homes with copper pipes or lead pipes and deal with that aws well.
As potters we get more than our share of exposure to these heavy metals.
So if anyone is having symptoms of a compromised immune sytem I would
strongly suggest having some blood tests and finding out what metals are
lurking in your body. If you get a lot of colds or upper respiratory
infections and can't seem to shake them and if if you have a lot of muscle
aches and pains, etc, you may have some heavy metal poisoning. The good news
is that through chelation therapy, either through diet and/or intravenous
introduction of chelating chemicals or just plain blood chelation - you can
rid the body of these poisons. There are also wonderful herbals on the market
like Cats Claw 5000 which is one of the most powerful immune system boosters
along with Colloidol gold.
Off my soap box for now!
-----------------------------------------
I know Jane and many others who believe much of what is above only have
everyone's best interests at heart. And I'm definitely not going to get
into a debate with Jane or anyone else on this subject. I am simply going
to make a couple of points and then I'm going to be silent on this subject.
I figure this is not science, it is religion.
1) There are doctors out there that will test your blood for heavy metals
and make diagnoses. This is not a standard medical procedure and the vast
majority of these doctors are taking your money under false pretenses. Be
careful.
And if you are truly injured by chemical exposures and want to obtain
workers compensation or file suit, going to these doctors or taking weird
cures on your own will destroy the credibility of your claim. It breaks my
heart when I find a seriously ill person who cannot get compensation because
their doctors are not really qualified to provide expert medical testimony or
when the opposition can claim that the "cure" was the "cause."
2) Run like hell from the hair testers. There have been a bunch of studies
of hair tests and they all show these tests do not provide good data except
in overexposures such as in poisoning cases. Any lab in New York caught
doing hair tests for diagnoses can be fined $10,000 per test.
3) Real chelation for significant amounts of toxic metals should only be
done in hospital while metals flushed into the blood and urine are being
carefully monitored.
If you have enough metals stored in your bones and tissues to actually be
causing symptoms, chelation can make the situation much worse. Chelation
flushes the metals out of the bones and tissues into the blood stream so that
the liver and kidney can try to eliminate them. While in the blood stream,
the metals can cause acute damage to the liver, kidneys, and other organs.
Chelation is a tricky medical choice between two unpleasant alternatives:
chronic and acute illness. In most cases, your own body can do a better job
of slowly and safely reducing stored metals. Chelation is done when the
body burden is so high that the acute risks are worth taking.
4) If you are smart enough to avoid eating out of aluminum pots, drinking
water from old lead pipes, etc., certainly be smart enough not to
deliberately eat a whole lot of an untested, undocumented herbal cure.
Both highly toxic substances and good medicines come from plants. Knowing
the difference involves a lot of testing and human trials. It also involves
getting the right dose. If you had a heart problem, you should not eat
fistful of foxglove herb. You should take a very controlled and purified
dose of the digitalis that was first isolated from foxglove.
Common sense is needed here.
Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety
181 Thompson St., #23
New York, NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062
http://www.caseweb.com/acts/
Monona Rossol on thu 17 apr 97
Kris Baum
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I saw this article, too - worrisome. My spouse keeps pointing out the
importance of trace elements in the human body (and I'm the biologist!),
so I may be overly paranoid. My latest discovery is that the
multivitamins I just bought include, per tablet, 15 mg zinc, 20 mcg
selenium, 2 mg copper, 3.5 mg manganese (!), 65 mcg chromium and 160 mcg
molybdenum. (And we take these voluntarily on the theory that
they're good for us!) Just some more bewildering info to throw into the
pot ...
--
===============================================
Kris Baum, Shubunkin Pottery,
mailto:shubunki@erols.com
===============================================
There are only certain metals that have absolutely no nutritional use
such as lead, arsenic, and barium. But many of the other toxic metals are
needed in small amounts by the body. Even some of the cancer causing ones
like chromium and cobalt are needed in tiny amounts.
The effects of the toxic metals we inhale in the pottery or ingest from our
ceramicware are complicated by the fact that they unbalance our body's
essential minerals. In my data sheet on Ceramicware Hazards I list
the latest mineral RDIs and their implications in terms of glaze leaching.
My advice is: Don't sweat the small stuff. Eliminate the big exposures
first. People who worry about aluminum in their deodorants while working in
a dusty pottery just don't have things in focus yet.
Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety
181 Thompson St., # 23
New York, NY 10012-2586 212-777-0062
http://www.caseweb.com/acts/
Paul Monaghan on fri 18 apr 97
Monona Rossol wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> June Perry wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> And for those of us who color our hair, there is manganese and other
> chemicals in that stuff. I had some blood tests done several years ago and I
> was loaded with manganese, nickel, etc. I don't use manganese in my pottery
> other than the odd glaze test periodically but it is in the hair dye. Same
> goes for nickel. I rarely use the stuff but I did smoke in my youth and there
> is nickel in cigarettes. It's also in solder for those who do jewelry work or
> other soldering which I also did for a while. Aluminum causes alzheimers and
> a lot of us grew up eating food that was cooked in aluminum pots and are
> drinking sodas from aluminum cans, not to mention that a lot of restaurants
> still use aluminum cookware, not to mention aluminum foil. Many of us grew up
> in older homes with copper pipes or lead pipes and deal with that aws well.
> As potters we get more than our share of exposure to these heavy metals.
> So if anyone is having symptoms of a compromised immune sytem I would
> strongly suggest having some blood tests and finding out what metals are
> lurking in your body. If you get a lot of colds or upper respiratory
> infections and can't seem to shake them and if if you have a lot of muscle
> aches and pains, etc, you may have some heavy metal poisoning. The good news
> is that through chelation therapy, either through diet and/or intravenous
> introduction of chelating chemicals or just plain blood chelation - you can
> rid the body of these poisons. There are also wonderful herbals on the market
> like Cats Claw 5000 which is one of the most powerful immune system boosters
> along with Colloidol gold.
> Off my soap box for now!
> -----------------------------------------
>
> I know Jane and many others who believe much of what is above only have
> everyone's best interests at heart. And I'm definitely not going to get
> into a debate with Jane or anyone else on this subject. I am simply going
> to make a couple of points and then I'm going to be silent on this subject.
> I figure this is not science, it is religion.
>
> 1) There are doctors out there that will test your blood for heavy metals
> and make diagnoses. This is not a standard medical procedure and the vast
> majority of these doctors are taking your money under false pretenses. Be
> careful.
>
> And if you are truly injured by chemical exposures and want to obtain
> workers compensation or file suit, going to these doctors or taking weird
> cures on your own will destroy the credibility of your claim. It breaks my
> heart when I find a seriously ill person who cannot get compensation because
> their doctors are not really qualified to provide expert medical testimony or
> when the opposition can claim that the "cure" was the "cause."
>
> 2) Run like hell from the hair testers. There have been a bunch of studies
> of hair tests and they all show these tests do not provide good data except
> in overexposures such as in poisoning cases. Any lab in New York caught
> doing hair tests for diagnoses can be fined $10,000 per test.
>
> 3) Real chelation for significant amounts of toxic metals should only be
> done in hospital while metals flushed into the blood and urine are being
> carefully monitored.
>
> If you have enough metals stored in your bones and tissues to actually be
> causing symptoms, chelation can make the situation much worse. Chelation
> flushes the metals out of the bones and tissues into the blood stream so that
> the liver and kidney can try to eliminate them. While in the blood stream,
> the metals can cause acute damage to the liver, kidneys, and other organs.
>
> Chelation is a tricky medical choice between two unpleasant alternatives:
> chronic and acute illness. In most cases, your own body can do a better job
> of slowly and safely reducing stored metals. Chelation is done when the
> body burden is so high that the acute risks are worth taking.
>
> 4) If you are smart enough to avoid eating out of aluminum pots, drinking
> water from old lead pipes, etc., certainly be smart enough not to
> deliberately eat a whole lot of an untested, undocumented herbal cure.
>
> Both highly toxic substances and good medicines come from plants. Knowing
> the difference involves a lot of testing and human trials. It also involves
> getting the right dose. If you had a heart problem, you should not eat
> fistful of foxglove herb. You should take a very controlled and purified
> dose of the digitalis that was first isolated from foxglove.
>
> Common sense is needed here.
>
> Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
> Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety
> 181 Thompson St., #23
> New York, NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062
>
> http://www.caseweb.com/acts/
Dear Monona,
I'm certainly glad your going to be quiet after this because what you
reference and your comments are neither scientifically nor medically
correct.
We went through this with you about 1-1/2 years ago with all the
scientific peer reviewed information on hair analyses, blood tests,
etc., etc. and your still coming back with the party line.
Go spend some quality time in a good medical library and since your in
NY visit the Atkins Institute - full of mainstream fully qualified MD's
etc who can set you straight.
Cheers,
Paul :-))
--
Paul J. Monaghan email: paul@web2u.com
WEB2U Productions --- http://www.web2u.com
The "COOLEST" Site on the WEB
"The Computer Secrets are hidden at http://www.web2u.com/secret"
"HOMO CLAYARTUS" is alive at http://www.web2u.com/clayart
Tony Hansen on sun 20 apr 97
> Dear Monona,
> I'm certainly glad your going to be quiet..because what you
> reference..neither scientifically nor medically correct.
> Go spend some quality time in a good medical library..mainstream
> fully qualified MD's etc who can set you straight.
Did I really see this or am I imagining? I assume someone is
sending this message in someone else's name to discredit them.
I don't know a lot about toxicology but I have eyes and
Monona definitely knows what she is talking about.
--
Tony Hansen
June Perry on sun 20 apr 97
I agree that the hair test isn't worth much. I had it done and then followed
it up with the blood tests. I had some iv chelation with my medical doctor
who is a big believe in alterntive medicine and who I know to be a very
sincere, impeccable practicioner.
I also did a lot myself with chelation diet and when I had my test redone a
year later a lot of the heavy metals were greatly reduced. I didn't need the
test to tell me because my immune system suddenly was working again and I
wasn't in constant pain in my joints and muscles.
I agree with you on the chelation. It can make you quite sick if the person
administering it doesn't know how to do it properly. The same goes for
chelating foods. Too much parsley juice, one of the chelation foods, can make
you deathly ill by releasing too much of the offending chemicals in to the
blood stream. It can bring on severe headaches, nausea, etc.
I was, am fortunate to have a doctor who has made this a specialty of his and
has had incredible results with people. I used to sit and talk to some of the
other people who were going through the chelation therapy and I heard their
horror stories and how they have bounced back from the I.V. chelation
therapy. There are so many hidden heavy metals in our foods and in our air
and we potters, jewelers, etc. who work with those metal oxides are very high
risk for heavy metal poisoning.
It's not fullproof, but if you want to try and check if you have heavy metal
exposure, take the elixier of wormwood (available at health food stores).
Take it for about a week. If you have heavy metals poisoning you may get a
very heavy metallic taste after around 5-7 days of taking the wormwood. If
you feel you have heavy metal poisoning - you have Epstein Barr or other
immune system disorders that are not viral related, experience extreme
fatigue, headaches, more than the normal muscles and ligament aches and
pains, then I would suggest you have yourself tested.
When I think of all the years I was in discomfort and having all kinds of
tests and nothing ever panned out. I thought I was a hypocondriac. I have
been healthy for several years now with good energy, feeling good in my body
and most of all, have a non-compromised immune system. I used to be on
antibiotics several times a year for upper respiratory infections. I was
always the first one to catch whatever flu or virus was around and the last
one to get rid of it. It's been years since I've had a physician subscribed
antibiotic.
I now use herbals which are fire kinder and cheaper and frankly, rarely ever
even need them. I have a friend who is a master herbalist and he has pointed
me in the right direction with the right books, etc. and I have become in
charge of my own health, and healthy I am - finally! I also know take all the
precautions in my studio that I should have taken years ago.
I recently saw a video of Warren MacKenzie dumping dry clay into a clay mixer
and the dust was flying and he wasn't wearing any protective masks. I
couldn't believe that people are still doing that. Maybe he has a special
lung guardian angel watching over him.
Take care and be well everyone!
Warm regards,
June
ret on mon 21 apr 97
I want to thank Tony for his support of Monona and her work. If I had know
about her a few years earlier, I would never have gotten myuself posioned
by manganese!!!!
On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Tony Hansen wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > Dear Monona,
> > I'm certainly glad your going to be quiet..because what you
> > reference..neither scientifically nor medically correct.
> > Go spend some quality time in a good medical library..mainstream
> > fully qualified MD's etc who can set you straight.
>
> Did I really see this or am I imagining? I assume someone is
> sending this message in someone else's name to discredit them.
>
> I don't know a lot about toxicology but I have eyes and
> Monona definitely knows what she is talking about.
>
> --
> Tony Hansen
>
Cindy on mon 21 apr 97
Just a note of caution:
I hear so often "It's a natural plant--it can't hurt you." Now, usually the
particular plant the speaker is referring to is, indeed, harmless. However,
curare (arrow poison) comes from a plant. So does datura (the often deadly
"flying potion" once used by witches.) Peyote and psylliciben both come
from plants. Sometimes they cause no lasting damage, but you can't count on
luck here, folks. Tetrototoxin, the most deadly poison known to man, is
found in an edible fish--the puffer fish. Just don't eat the wrong part!
Foxglove is the source for digitalis, a life-saving cardiac drug. Take too
much, though, and the docs just may not be able to save you. The bark of
the roots of the willow tree contains acetacylisic acid (sp?) or ASA--the
active ingredient in aspirin. Aspirin, while it is without doubt a wonder
drug, is also extremely dangerous when abused.
Now, the point of this note. The active ingredient of wormwood, thujone, is
a convulsant poison and a narcotic. Fortunately it has a low solubility in
water, so the elixir of wormwood, unless it is a true elixir with an
alcohol base, is probably relatively harmless. All the same, I wouldn't
drink it. And I imagine that if you do drink it, and have problems, the
manufacturer's lawyers will tell you that the product was never meant for
internal use. Wormwood is a good insect repellent (which fact alone should
set off a few warning bells), and can be used as a soothing compress for
rheumatism, neuralgia, and arthritis (though some people will experience
dermatitis). Ingested, it can cause seizures, delirium, hallucinations, and
general paralysis, among other things. It can be fatal. Most of this
information comes from Rodale's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Herbs. The
rest, I learned in nursing school.
Herbs can certainly be a blessing and an aid to good health. Just be
careful. Especially those of you with other physical challenges. Many herbs
raise blood pressure. Some can affect insulin levels. Be informed and make
sure the sources are reputable. People who say--"there's danger here--or
don't take that herb because . . ." are not always mouthpieces for the AMA.
Natural remedies are truly a way for us to take back charge of our own
health care, but they can be every bit as dangerous as, or sometimes even
more dangerous than prescription drugs.
Cindy Strnad
> It's not fullproof, but if you want to try and check if you have heavy
metal
> exposure, take the elixier of wormwood (available at health food stores).
> Take it for about a week. If you have heavy metals poisoning you may get
a
> very heavy metallic taste after around 5-7 days of taking the wormwood.
If
> you feel you have heavy metal poisoning - you have Epstein Barr or other
> immune system disorders that are not viral related, experience extreme
> fatigue, headaches, more than the normal muscles and ligament aches and
> pains, then I would suggest you have yourself tested.
>
> I now use herbals which are fire kinder and cheaper and frankly, rarely
ever
> even need them. I have a friend who is a master herbalist and he has
pointed
> me in the right direction with the right books, etc. and I have become in
> charge of my own health, and healthy I am - finally!
> June
Paul and C2 on wed 23 apr 97
Our colleagues in Hong Kong would like to know whether there are studies
done (with statistics) on Parkinson's Disease/manganese overdosage by
people working in the pottery field.
Thanks.
Caroline Cheng
The Pottery Workshop
2, Lower Albert Road
Hong Kong
Monona Rossol on thu 24 apr 97
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:44:59 EDT
From: Paul and C2
Resent-Subject: Re: Manganse/other metal
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Our colleagues in Hong Kong would like to know whether there are studies
> done (with statistics) on Parkinson's Disease/manganese overdosage by
> people working in the pottery field. <
Not only are there none that I know of, I have never even seen good studies
of lead and silicosis in pottery workers in the U.S. The reason that we
know it is a potential problem is from individual case histories, lawsuits
for compensation, etc.
Occasionally there will be a group of lead or silicosis cases identified in
an area or in a single ceramic facility. Nothing as sophisticated as looking
for other forms of occupational illnesses such as manganese toxicity have
even been proposed as far as I know.
Potters would make a very poor study group in any case. They are small in
number, widely scattered, work conditions vary, methods of production vary,
etc.
Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety
181 Thompson St., # 23
New York, NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062
http://www.caseweb.com/acts/
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