Lisa A. English on tue 12 nov 96
clayarters,
i've seen ads in ceramics monthly for masonite bats.
what's the down-side of using them? they're so much
cheaper than the plastic bats!
still looking to save a few pennies, lisa
Scott Harper (201) 540-2868 on tue 12 nov 96
I have had no direct experience with masonite bats, but would think that they
wouldn't hold up so well. From what I know of masonite as a building
material, they might tend to warp or even disintegrate. I have used particle
board bats successfully, but tend to prefer plastic or plaster.
Jim Connell on tue 12 nov 96
WINTHROP UNIVERSITY Electronic Mail Message
Date: 12-Nov-1996 10:12am EDT
From: James Connell
CONNELLJ
Dept: Art and Design
Tel No: 323-2126
TO: SMTP%"CLAYART@lsv.uky.edu" ( _SMTP%"CLAYART@lsv.uky.edu" )
Subject: RE: masonite bats
Down-side of masonite bats are they wear out faster than the plastic variety.
They will, over time, start to come apart on the surface and the holes do
enlarge. They also have a tendency to warp.
Up-side is they're cheap, they breathe (bottom of pot will dry a little bit
while on bat). Easy to make yourself.
I had a set I made for about ten years before I replaced them with the plastic
variety. It is hard to choose one over the other as I liked both but I'd have
to go with the plastic bats for durability and life time warranty guarantee.
However, if you don't mind replacing them every ten years the cost might be
about the same over a course of a life time!
Jim
June Perry on wed 13 nov 96
In my experience the masonite warp a lot faster.
Regards,
June
James A. Harrod on wed 13 nov 96
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> clayarters,
> i've seen ads in ceramics monthly for masonite bats.
> what's the down-side of using them? they're so much
> cheaper than the plastic bats!
>
>still looking to save a few pennies, lisa
If you have a few tools I would recommend that you make your own. I made
mine out of 1/4 inch tempered masonite - cut from 4' x 8' sheets from the
lumberyard. You need a jigsaw and a compass or pattern to draw the circles
- then some sweat to cut them out. I found them easy to use - putting some
recycled clay on the wheel head and spreading it to a depth of 1/2 inch -
then put some ridges in the clay so that you are attaching the bat to three
or four raised areas and not a solid mass of clay (it is more difficult to
remove the bat from a solid mass) - the bats are easy to attach using a
little water to make the ridges "sticky".
Jim "No Longer Potting" Harrod
Bob Hanlin on wed 13 nov 96
Lisa
I've used the same predrilled masonite bats for several years now with no
problems. I like them, they are thin and present a mimimal storage problem,
they allow the pots to "pop" of when drying, they don't warp if you store
them flat and they don't get scored if you trim vertical pieces on them.
Downside: I have 32 7" square ones and on occaision I've caught the cut-off
wire on the corner and seperated the masonite. I'm still using all of them
though.
Bob Hanlin
bhanlin@ionet.net
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> clayarters,
> i've seen ads in ceramics monthly for masonite bats.
> what's the down-side of using them? they're so much
> cheaper than the plastic bats!
>
>still looking to save a few pennies, lisa
>
>
Bob Hanlin
3504 N. Tulsa
Oklahoma City, OK 73112
e-mail bhanlin@ionet.net
Paul Monaghan on wed 13 nov 96
Scott Harper (201) 540-2868 wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I have had no direct experience with masonite bats, but would think that they
> wouldn't hold up so well. From what I know of masonite as a building
> material, they might tend to warp or even disintegrate. I have used particle
> board bats successfully, but tend to prefer plastic or plaster.
Friends,
most people are thinking of the cheap masonite tempered only on one side
when they discuss its durability. There is a very hard durable masonite
tempered on both sides which will equal and even outlast the plastics.
It also won't absorb moisture and can be cut, drilled, machined, sanded
- you name it. it's commonly used in the aerospace industry for press
blocks and withstands 1000's of psi w/o spalling, chipping or breaking.
Ciao,
Paul Monaghan
paul@web2u.com
WEB2U Productions
www.web2u.com The 'COOLEST' Site on the WEB
FREE EMAIL FROM SANTA AT WWW.WEB2U.COM
Marcia Selsor & Matt Benacquista on thu 14 nov 96
I have some particle board bats w/ uerethane varnish, also some counter
top sink cut outs that are twenty five years old. In my classes I use
North Stars Masonite bats. They special drill two sets of holes for my
different types of wheels with computerized precision.
If students saturate the masonite bats sometimes they warp. But the can
be turned over and sit flat on the wheel head.I've been using these for
several years.
Marcia in Montana
--
Marci Selsor
Matt Benacquista
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/
mjbmls@imt.net
Hertz Pottery on thu 14 nov 96
Hi Lisa,
I cant believe the less than favorable responces of people about your
Masonite bat Question.
Iv used the same ones for almost 20 years, Iv throun out a few but for the
most part they are all in great shape.
not all of them are 20 years old , Ive made them twice myself and hired a
cabinet maker to make the others. you must use "double tempered masonite"
that may be why some people havent liked them,if they used tempered on one
side only. i Attach mine to the wheel by adding a plate of clay to the wheel
head alittle higher at the outside than the middle.
I had to special order the sheets of D.T. masonite from the hardware store
for about $14.00 each took them to the cabinet maker and had him cut them to
as close to 12" dia as possible.
I simply stack them next to my wwheel and use them every day i throw. the
piece comes off after bending the bat a little the next day and then i
scrape the bat with a wide putty knife to remove the XS.I usually throw
about 50 pieces (100 lbs) a day four days a week and the bats hold up fine.
and are very cheep as compared to plastic.
altough plastic will last for ever im happy with my masonite's half life of
about 10 years.
good luck.
Erik Hertz
Al most ready for my Mall Gig before Christmas
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> clayarters,
> i've seen ads in ceramics monthly for masonite bats.
> what's the down-side of using them? they're so much
> cheaper than the plastic bats!
>
>still looking to save a few pennies, lisa
>
>
erik hertz
Paul Monaghan on thu 14 nov 96
James A. Harrod wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > clayarters,
> > i've seen ads in ceramics monthly for masonite bats.
> > what's the down-side of using them? they're so much
> > cheaper than the plastic bats!
> >
> >still looking to save a few pennies, lisa
>
> If you have a few tools I would recommend that you make your own. I made
> mine out of 1/4 inch tempered masonite - cut from 4' x 8' sheets from the
> lumberyard. You need a jigsaw and a compass or pattern to draw the circles
> - then some sweat to cut them out. I found them easy to use - putting some
> recycled clay on the wheel head and spreading it to a depth of 1/2 inch -
> then put some ridges in the clay so that you are attaching the bat to three
> or four raised areas and not a solid mass of clay (it is more difficult to
> remove the bat from a solid mass) - the bats are easy to attach using a
> little water to make the ridges "sticky".
>
> Jim "No Longer Potting" Harrod
A helpful hint if you're going to cut your own is to buy a circle cutter
which can be used in a drill press or carefully in an electric drill.
Ciao,
Paul :-)
--
Paul J. Monaghan email: paul@web2u.com
WEB2U Productions --- http://www.web2u.com
The "COOLEST" Site on the WEB
FREE email to SANTA on www.web2u.com
Donald G. Goldsobel on fri 15 nov 96
I have used masonite bats for quite a while. I made mine from tempered, both
sides, 1\4inch. They are easy to shape and drill. They tend to warp if left
damp too long and bat pin holes enlarge. I like the plastic ABS bats best.
They dont warp, can be used immediately after removing the last pot as they
do not hold moisture. The plastic ABS bats should outlast the potter unless
abused, but the potter won't last long if abused either.
Regards from sunny Los Angeles where winter doesn'ts seem to know its here.
Donald G. Goldsobel
Akita-jin \"Lee Love\" on fri 15 nov 96
Only problem with plastic bats is that they will warp with heat. I
accidently left one under a floodlight and put a good wobble in it.
Lee
Donald G. Goldsobel wrote:
> I have used masonite bats for quite a while. I made mine from tempered, both
> sides, 1\4inch. They are easy to shape and drill. They tend to warp if left
> damp too long and bat pin holes enlarge. I like the plastic ABS bats best.
> They dont warp, can be used immediately after removing the last pot as they
> do not hold moisture. The plastic ABS bats should outlast the potter unless
> abused, but the potter won't last long if abused either.
>
--
====================================================
/(o\ Lee Love In "St. Paul", MN ' Come see some pixs of my AkitaPup:
\o)/ mailto:LeeLove@millcomm.com ' http://www.millcomm.com/~leelove
mailto:AkitaJin@Cryogen.com ' "It gets late early out there."
-Yogi Berra-
Erik Hertz on thu 17 mar 11
I like double tempered Masonite, the tempered on one side stuff
commonly available is textured on one side and will soak up water, but
double tempered is smooth on both sides. I had to special order it. I hav=
=3D
e
bats that are near 30 years old that are just beginning to show signs of
wear. the last batch i made i treated the tiny jig hole in the middle and=
=3D
the edge with spray spar poly urethane. I cut it with a friends ban saw. =
=3D
a
cabinet shop may do the cutting for you, they may also order the board.
I don't use bat pins, I prefer to have a 2 lb layer of clay thrown like a=
=3D
plate and a little thicker at the rim to hold the bats in place while
throwing. this technique also eliminates wobbling bats.
I dont see tile backer board as being a good bat material. its brittle a=
=3D
nd
can shed bits of board in your clay.
I hope this is helpful, good luck!
Taylor Hendrix on thu 17 mar 11
Erik,
Backer boards are not all created equal. I have been using Hardiboard
bats for years and I too have no bat pins. I use a thin layer of
throwing slurry and the bats stick to the wheel head like plaster bats
do. The Hardi bats' only downside that I can see is their abrasive
nature (like Tony Clennell). I can sharpen my wooden knife on one (a
bat, not Tony), so you can imagine what it will do to an exposed
fingernail quick (again, the bat). Ouch!
Man I love this stuff,
Taylor, in Rockport TX
wirerabbit1 on Skype (-0600 UTC)
http://wirerabbit.blogspot.com
http://wirerabbitpots.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wirerabbit/
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Erik Hertz wrote:
...
>
> =3DC2=3DA0I dont see tile backer board as being a good bat material. its =
brit=3D
tle and
> can shed bits of board in your clay.
> I hope this is helpful, good luck!
>
Hank Murrow on thu 17 mar 11
I have a shop here in Eugene fabricate my bats for me from 1/4" Sintra, =3D
a plastic version of MDF which costs around $90 per 4x8 sheet. So I get =3D
32 pcs. of 11 and 7/8" diameter bat from a sheet....... or 18 pcs. of 15 =
=3D
and 7/8" diameter bat.
They are bulletproof and have held up perfectly for 10 years. I too use =3D
the 'pad of clay' method of attachment.
Cheers, Hank
On Mar 17, 2011, at 3:35 AM, Erik Hertz wrote:
> I like double tempered Masonite, the tempered on one side stuff
> commonly available is textured on one side and will soak up water, but
> double tempered is smooth on both sides. I had to special order it. I =3D
have
> bats that are near 30 years old that are just beginning to show signs =3D
of
> wear. the last batch i made i treated the tiny jig hole in the middle =3D
and
> the edge with spray spar poly urethane. I cut it with a friends ban =3D
saw. a
> cabinet shop may do the cutting for you, they may also order the =3D
board.
>=3D20
> I don't use bat pins, I prefer to have a 2 lb layer of clay thrown =3D
like a
> plate and a little thicker at the rim to hold the bats in place while
> throwing. this technique also eliminates wobbling bats.
Vince Pitelka on fri 18 mar 11
I could never understand any reason I have heard for NOT using bat pins. =
=3D
With bat pines, you just use a bat all the time, but what inconvenience =
=3D
is that? In my experience, the people who insist on not using bat pins =3D
are the ones who never got used to them and never really gave them a =3D
chance.
With properly-made bats and a few dots of clay on the wheelhead, bats on =
=3D
bat pins never wobble or lift, and it is so simple, especially =3D
considering that you can put the pot back on the wheel and it is =3D
perfectly centered. That is a significant consideration in =3D
slip-decoration, in assembling multi-piece thrown vessels, and in =3D
various other situations where it is an advantage to take the piece off =3D
the while to let it stiffen up a bit and then put it back on the wheel =3D
for additional processes.
In the seventeen years I have been at the Appalachian Center for Craft =3D
we have made two batches of bats. All our wheels have bat pins. The =3D
first batch of bats was made with exterior 3/4" plywood very =3D
well-finished with marine spar varnish, and they are still in good =3D
shape. The second batch was 1/2" Medex waterproof MDF, and were left =3D
unfinished. They were made in 2000, and are still in perfect condition. =
=3D
I do not like Masonite bats because they flex, and because =3D
double-tempered Masonite is almost impossible to find these days, and =3D
single-tempered is not worth bothering with because it breaks down =3D
quickly. I do not like plastic bats because they are too slippery and =3D
they are plastic. I do not like plaster bats because they are absorbent, =
=3D
heavy, bulky, and vulnerable to chipping, which will contaminate your =3D
pots and cause lime pops. I see no advantage in plaster. In my own =3D
experience I have never found any bat material that is better than 1/2" =3D
Medex waterproof MDF. They require no finishing at all, and stay in =3D
perfect condition for decades. =3D20
In the back of my book there are detailed instructions on how to make =3D
bats with proper bat-pin holes.
Bear in mind that the above are just my own opinions, but they are based =
=3D
on a whole lotta years of experience in clay. =3D20
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu=3D20
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Vince Pitelka on sat 19 mar 11
Mike Gordon wrote:
"I taught ceramics for thirty odd years and every wheel that came through
the door..... the bat pins came off and were put in a drawer, the splash
pans went up in the top shelf of the store room. You only need them if you
need them for your own type of work. Splash pans are a crutch to use too
much water, in my opinion."
Hi Mike -
To each his/her own, but I am sorry that for thirty years, your students
were denied the opportunity to learn all the wonderful possibilities of bat
pins and splash pans. Wouldn't it be better to teach them both approaches
and leave it up to them?
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Philip Poburka on sat 19 mar 11
I see no reason for using Splash Pans, other than habits which have adapted
to Clay which is not properly wedged and prepared, and, Electric Wheels
allowing super high RPM for trying to center and pull improperly wedged and
not soft enough Clays, where, one would tend to over-use the Water, and, by
then, it is all getting messy.
Rightly prepared Clay of right consistency, and, knowing how to manage it a=
s
it wishes to be managed, and, one can stay clean while wearing a Black Suit=
,
with no 'splash pans', even as everyone did do, in times passed, where, wit=
h
slow wheels and right habits, at most, they merely wore a thin Cotton Apron
which was mostly to prevent incidental dusts from getting on one's clothes
as one went about general things in addition to Throwing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall Moody"
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Mike Gordon
> wrote:
>
>> I taught ceramics for thirty odd years and every wheel that came
>> through the door..... the bat pins came off and were put in a drawer,
>> the splash pans went up in the top shelf of the store room. You only
>> need them if you need them for your own type of work. Splash pans are a
>> crutch to use too much water, in my opinion. Mike Gordon
>>
>
> I have to use bats when I am throwing a form such as a very large bowl,
> plate or platter. As to the splash pan I don't use much water but I still
> don't want a crotch full of porcelain. To each his own. If you throw with
> a
> bat on a clay patty or a bat with pins or no bat at all it doesn't make
> you
> any more or less than the next guy. If, on the other hand, if you do all
> of
> the "right" things and your pots stink then there is an issue there.
>
> --
> Randall in Atlanta
> http://wrandallmoody.com
James Freeman on sat 19 mar 11
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Lis Allison wrote:
The largest bat I
have is only 22" across, so I have to make a couple of larger ones, maybe
about 26-28" across. Is plywood treated with varathane going to work?
Also, I have trouble keeping the 22" one attached, in spite of bat pins
and a clay pancake. The force needed to open such a large lump of clay
knocks it off every time. I've resorted to extruding a thick coil and
adding it to the outside edge of a thick slab, but even so I had trouble
keeping the bat on.
Any suggestions?
Lis...
I have some very large batts (I believe they are 26") that I made about ten
years ago. They are 3/4" birch plywood. I treated the bottoms with one
coat of polyurethane varnish, and the tops and edges with three coats. The=
y
are still in excellent shape. I rough cut them on my band saw, then cut
them to finished size with a flush trimming bit in my router, with my route=
r
mounted to a home made trammel, but there are a number of other possible
methods depending on the tools you can get hold of. After drilling the bat=
t
pin holes, I mounted the batt to my wheel, turned it on high speed, and hel=
d
the sand paper against the edge of the spinning batt.
If the batt pin holes are tight, and not allowed to get boogered up, the
large batts will stay put just fine. My large batts still stay firmly in
place with no messy clay pancake to deal with. If the pin holes do get
chewed up, then they won't hold if you push down hard on the cantilevered
portion of the batt. Given that, here is a sure fire way to keep oversize
batts of any dimension firmly attached to your wheelhead:
Remove your batt pins, and measure the diameter of their shaft. I think
mine are 3/16", but can't remember right now. Drill holes of a slightly
smaller diameter all the way through your oversize batt in the appropriate
locations. Drill from the top through the bottom so that any splintering
will be on the bottom of the batt. Countersink the holes using a bit like
this, available at any home center or hardware store:
http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-195-3-4-Inch-Countersink/dp/B00004T7OS/=
ref=3Dsr_1_9?ie=3DUTF8&qid=3D1300588706&sr=3D8-9.
Run flat top machine screws through the batt from the top. The screw
will cut it's own threads through the plywood, and the countersink will
allow the screw head to be flush with the top of the batt. Place the batt
atop the wheel head with the protruding screws going through the batt pin
holes, and thread on wing nuts from underneath the wheel head.
The only drawback to this system is a minor one. If your pot covers the
screw heads, and if you wish to remove the batt from the wheel, you need to
set up some sort of props for the batt to rest on such that the protruding
screws do not hit your table top. Definitely not a big deal.
If anything was unclear, or if you need further details, I shall be happy t=
o
clarify.
Enjoy your project.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
Taylor Hendrix on sat 19 mar 11
And I still can't understand covering up a perfectly good wheel head with a
bat just to cover up a pair of knuckle-busting bat pins. Then again I've
been at this for less than ten years. I'm such a pup.
On Mar 19, 2011 11:22 AM, "Vince Pitelka" wrote:
Lis Allison on sat 19 mar 11
On March 18, 2011, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>.....
> In the seventeen years I have been at the Appalachian Center for Craft
> we have made two batches of bats. All our wheels have bat pins. The
> first batch of bats was made with exterior 3/4" plywood very
> well-finished with marine spar varnish, and they are still in good
> shape.
I have a question about bats in general, not just masonite ones. I need to
make some very large-bottomed bases for small fountains. The largest bat I
have is only 22" across, so I have to make a couple of larger ones, maybe
about 26-28" across. Is plywood treated with varathane going to work?
Also, I have trouble keeping the 22" one attached, in spite of bat pins
and a clay pancake. The force needed to open such a large lump of clay
knocks it off every time. I've resorted to extruding a thick coil and
adding it to the outside edge of a thick slab, but even so I had trouble
keeping the bat on.
Any suggestions?
Lis
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
website: www.pine-ridge.ca
Pottery blog: www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Garden blog: www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Mike Gordon on sat 19 mar 11
I taught ceramics for thirty odd years and every wheel that came
through the door..... the bat pins came off and were put in a drawer,
the splash pans went up in the top shelf of the store room. You only
need them if you need them for your own type of work. Splash pans are a
crutch to use too much water, in my opinion. Mike Gordon
Philip Poburka on sat 19 mar 11
Hi Lis,
You would do well to make Large Bats out of say 3/8ths or 1/2 inch thick
'MEDEX'.
No surface or finishing treatment would be necessary, it has perfect
adhesion/absobsion as is, and, while it may 'dome' very slightly in
continued use, the slight 'doming' is a plus, allowing better Wiring off.
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lis Allison"
> I have a question about bats in general, not just masonite ones. I need t=
o
> make some very large-bottomed bases for small fountains. The largest bat =
I
> have is only 22" across, so I have to make a couple of larger ones, maybe
> about 26-28" across. Is plywood treated with varathane going to work?
>
> Also, I have trouble keeping the 22" one attached, in spite of bat pins
> and a clay pancake. The force needed to open such a large lump of clay
> knocks it off every time. I've resorted to extruding a thick coil and
> adding it to the outside edge of a thick slab, but even so I had trouble
> keeping the bat on.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Lis
>
>
> --
> Elisabeth Allison
> Pine Ridge Studio
Philip Poburka on sat 19 mar 11
Hi Taylor, all,
The sensible use of Bats will depend on the kinds of forms thrown, and, the
success one may have at Spigotting them with dry finger tips once Wired Off=
,
to lift them off of the Wheel, to then set them onto the Wareboards.
Forms which one can not readily lift off without harm, are best Wired Off,
and, left on a Bat, for them to be lifted and moved by lifting the Bat, for
the Bat with the form on it, to be set on to the Wareboards, Damp Room or
whatever, pending further attentions once dry enough.
Or, merely in preference to do it that way - Bats may be relied on for the
piece to remain undisturbed once Wired off and carried to the Damp Room or
whatever, just because that is how one enjoys to do it.
I do not think that Plates for one thing, are readily lifted off the Wheel
by Hand, to be set elsewhere as one continue to Throw...for which procedure
of removal and relocation, the Bat is especially useful.
Like that...
Phil
L v
----- Original Message -----
From: "Taylor Hendrix"
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: masonite bats
> And I still can't understand covering up a perfectly good wheel head with
> a
> bat just to cover up a pair of knuckle-busting bat pins. Then again I've
> been at this for less than ten years. I'm such a pup.
> On Mar 19, 2011 11:22 AM, "Vince Pitelka" wrote:
Randall Moody on sat 19 mar 11
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Mike Gordon wrote:
> I taught ceramics for thirty odd years and every wheel that came
> through the door..... the bat pins came off and were put in a drawer,
> the splash pans went up in the top shelf of the store room. You only
> need them if you need them for your own type of work. Splash pans are a
> crutch to use too much water, in my opinion. Mike Gordon
>
I have to use bats when I am throwing a form such as a very large bowl,
plate or platter. As to the splash pan I don't use much water but I still
don't want a crotch full of porcelain. To each his own. If you throw with a
bat on a clay patty or a bat with pins or no bat at all it doesn't make you
any more or less than the next guy. If, on the other hand, if you do all of
the "right" things and your pots stink then there is an issue there.
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
Snail Scott on sun 20 mar 11
On Mar 19, 2011, at 1:52 PM, Lis Allison wrote:
> ... The largest bat I
> have is only 22" across, so I have to make a couple of larger ones, maybe
> about 26-28" across. Is plywood treated with varathane going to work?
Yes, it works. Get the thick plywood, or if you want
to avoid that, get thinner, but reinforce the rim with
1"x2" slats or something similar.
>
> Also, I have trouble keeping the 22" one attached, in spite of bat pins
> and a clay pancake. The force needed to open such a large lump of clay
> knocks it off every time...
That much rotational force is hard to resist, but...
since you have bat pins (and thus bat pin holes),
could you bolt the bat on from the top? With a thick
bat, recessing a space for a bolt head should be
feasible. Use the same wing nuts you likely use for
your current bat pins, and fasten from underneath.
Or. to be less gymnastic about it, insert the bolts
from underneath and tape in place to keep them
from falling out, then mount the bat and use normal
hex nuts to fasten. If the bolts are cut to the right
length, the nut should end up flush with the bat top
and no extra bolt length should protrude.
The advantage of Plan A. above, is that you can
get the bat off even if the clay covers the bolt heads.
You just need to set the bat on a couple of slats after
removal from the wheel, to allow for the dangling bolts
remaining beneath.
Plan B only works if you can access the nuts after
the thrown form is completed, (open-centered ring
forms, for instance) or if you can remove the form
without taking the bat off the wheel (which seems
fairly impractical).
Haven't tried any of this...just speculating.
-Snail
Vince Pitelka on sun 20 mar 11
Taylor Hendrix wrote:
"And I still can't understand covering up a perfectly good wheel head =3D
with a bat just to cover up a pair of knuckle-busting bat pins. Then =3D
again I've been at this for less than ten years. I'm such a pup."
Taylor -=3D20
I don't understand the question, because this seems a non-issue. You =3D
have bat pins on wheelheads for a variety of good reason (for those who =3D
appreciate and use bats pins), and they are troublesome to remove. So, =3D
on the occasions when you do not really need to use a bat, you put one =3D
on the wheelhead anyway and throw off of that, because without the bat, =3D
the bat pins would be, like you say, knuckle-busters. Could this be any =
=3D
more obvious?
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu=3D20
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Vince Pitelka on sun 20 mar 11
Lis Allison wrote:
"I have a question about bats in general, not just masonite ones. I need =
=3D
to make some very large-bottomed bases for small fountains. The largest =3D
bat I have is only 22" across, so I have to make a couple of larger =3D
ones, maybe about 26-28" across. Is plywood treated with varathane going =
=3D
to work? Also, I have trouble keeping the 22" one attached, in spite of =3D
bat pins and a clay pancake. The force needed to open such a large lump =3D
of clay
knocks it off every time. I've resorted to extruding a thick coil and =3D
adding it to the outside edge of a thick slab, but even so I had trouble =
=3D
keeping the bat on."
Lis -=3D20
Medex waterproof MDF would definitely be the best material, and there is =
=3D
no reason to apply any finish. You could use plywood finished with =3D
urethane, but that is a lot of trouble, and the MDF will hold up better =3D
over time.
I have never heard of a process where you had to apply so much force =3D
that the bat pulled off the wheel when well attached with pins and a =3D
thin ring of soft clay around the outer edge of the wheel. I certainly =3D
believe you, and the only thing I can think of is to actually screw the =3D
bats down to the wheelhead. This would be simple and would work =3D
perfectly for your need. =3D20
If you make bats specifically for this purpose, just drill the bat pin =3D
holes all the way through the MDF, countersink the holes on the top of =3D
the bat, and use short flat-head screws with a wing-nut on the bottom of =
=3D
the wheelhead. Then you wouldn't even have to use any clay beneath the =3D
bat. There is a small chance that the head of the screw might turn as =3D
you attempt to undo the screw after throwing the form, but the worst =3D
case scenario is that you would have to stick a screwdriver through the =3D
clay in the bottom of your pot to lock the screw while you undo the wing =
=3D
nut. If that happened, it would be a simple matter to seal up the hole =3D
in the clay after removing the wing nut. =3D20
Of course when you lift the bat off the wheel you will have to set it =3D
down on some bricks or wood slats, because the screws will be sticking =3D
down from the underside of the bat. =3D20
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu=3D20
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
David Finkelnburg on sun 20 mar 11
Lis,
Yes, treated plywood will work. Use more than one coat to get them to
last if they will get much use.
You may want to consider how tight the holes are on your bats. For
larger diameters you want them to fit fairly tight on the bat pins.
I have found I only need clay on the wheelhead if the bat pin holes are
worn and the bat is small. With a lot of clay on a large bat (I regularly
use 24" bats and have used up to 36") gravity holds everything down very
well! :-)
It's easy to drill new holes in a bat. Just rotate the bat and make a
new set of holes if you need them smaller in diameter.
If the bat pins just don't function for the way you work, you may want
to consider the system David Hendley uses--boards fastened to the bottom of
the bat that are snug to the wheel head. Use at least three in a sort of
triangle. I tried that with 2x2 boards and it works very well also.
Good potting!
Dave Finkelnburg
http://www.mattanddavesclays.com/
-----------------------------
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011, Lis Allison wrote:
I have a question about bats in general, not just masonite ones. I need to
make some very large-bottomed bases for small fountains. The largest bat I
have is only 22" across, so I have to make a couple of larger ones, maybe
about 26-28" across. Is plywood treated with varathane going to work?
Also, I have trouble keeping the 22" one attached, in spite of bat pins
and a clay pancake. The force needed to open such a large lump of clay
knocks it off every time. I've resorted to extruding a thick coil and
adding it to the outside edge of a thick slab, but even so I had trouble
keeping the bat on.
David Woof on sun 20 mar 11
Hi Lis=3D2C
=3D20
You didn't say how thick your bats are=3D3B for Bats 18 - 24" and upwards =
I =3D
go for 3/4 to one inch thickness for the obvious reason of non flexing str=
=3D
ength=3D3B and by lengthening the height of the batt pins with wire "washer=
s"=3D
(shims) under the batt pin heads I get a deeper more secure purchase up in=
=3D
side the batt pin holes.
=3D20
You can also counter sink the heads of long bat pins=3D2C or other bolts of=
t=3D
he right shaft diameter=3D2C into the top side of your batt and even wing n=
ut=3D
them to the wheel head for a secure and as permanent fixture as needed.
=3D20
Sometimes just a slight adjustment in technique or direction of force on th=
=3D
e clay will get the desied results without your batt jumping off its pins.
=3D20
I am in the Batt Camp with Vince and the others who have made effective use=
=3D
of batts as a regular feature.
=3D20
On a Batt I can throw all my finger picking and hands lift off after wire c=
=3D
utting work as well as the things that virtually everyone would agree is be=
=3D
st thrown on a bat. Years ago I asked myself why would I mess around takin=
=3D
g stuck bat pins on and off and changing my pace at the wheel to go hunting=
=3D
in a drawer for my pins. So my pins are always attached.
=3D20
To the purists who throw without batts=3D2C water or splash pans=3D2C and p=
erha=3D
ps tools as well: I respond 'well to each his own and if it makes you feel=
=3D
good.' To one getting all up as though any one way is gospel truth and on=
=3D
ly right: I would ask as did a rather wise woman some time ago=3D3B you don=
't=3D
drive nails with your bare fist do you?=3D20
=3D20
When i was a young "hot shot" I would demonstrate without splash pan=3D3B w=
ea=3D
ring a white shirt and slacks and my pride was not getting a speck or smear=
=3D
on me anywhere. Somewhere in that early time I decided to relax=3D2C pay =
a =3D
more attention to the clay and the forms=3D2C and the sheer joy of getting =
to=3D
work in such a sensual and expressive medium=3D3B so being the "hot shot w=
it=3D
h out a splash pan" became unimportant. Though the house keeping tidiness =
=3D
at the wheel was good training that has followed me..=3D20
=3D20
My students see me throwing very conservatively with the throwing slip and=
=3D
I explain to them that as they develop their tactile sensitivity they too =
=3D
will find need for using increasingly less throwing water as well=3D3B but=
t=3D
hat at first generous lubrication lets them focus and concentrate on more i=
=3D
mportant aspects of learning good clay handling technique and practicing th=
=3D
eir developing skills while they develop that sensitivity to the clay.
=3D20
david Woof
__________________________________________________=3D20
13c. Re: masonite bats
Posted by: "Lis Allison" lis@PINE-RIDGE.CA=3D20
Date: Sat Mar 19=3D2C 2011 6:54 pm ((PDT))
On March 18=3D2C 2011=3D2C Vince Pitelka wrote:
>.....
> In the seventeen years I have been at the Appalachian Center for Craft
> we have made two batches of bats. All our wheels have bat pins. The
> first batch of bats was made with exterior 3/4" plywood very
> well-finished with marine spar varnish=3D2C and they are still in good
> shape.
I have a question about bats in general=3D2C not just masonite ones. I need=
t=3D
o
make some very large-bottomed bases for small fountains. The largest bat I
have is only 22" across=3D2C so I have to make a couple of larger ones=3D2C=
may=3D
be
about 26-28" across. Is plywood treated with varathane going to work?
Also=3D2C I have trouble keeping the 22" one attached=3D2C in spite of bat =
pins
and a clay pancake. The force needed to open such a large lump of clay
knocks it off every time. I've resorted to extruding a thick coil and
adding it to the outside edge of a thick slab=3D2C but even so I had troubl=
e
keeping the bat on.
Any suggestions?
Lis
_______________________________________________________________________
13a. Re: masonite bats
Posted by: "Vince Pitelka" vpitelka@DTCCOM.NET=3D20
Date: Sat Mar 19=3D2C 2011 9:22 am ((PDT))
=3D20
I could never understand any reason I have heard for NOT using bat pins. Wi=
=3D
th bat pines=3D2C you just use a bat all the time=3D2C but what inconvenien=
ce i=3D
s that? In my experience=3D2C the people who insist on not using bat pins a=
re=3D
the ones who never got used to them and never really gave them a chance.
=3D20
With properly-made bats and a few dots of clay on the wheelhead=3D2C bats o=
n =3D
bat pins never wobble or lift=3D2C and it is so simple=3D2C especially cons=
ider=3D
ing that you can put the pot back on the wheel and it is perfectly centered=
=3D
. That is a significant consideration in slip-decoration=3D2C in assembling=
m=3D
ulti-piece thrown vessels=3D2C and in various other situations where it is =
an=3D
advantage to take the piece off the while to let it stiffen up a bit and t=
=3D
hen put it back on the wheel for additional processes.
=3D20
In the seventeen years I have been at the Appalachian Center for Craft we h=
=3D
ave made two batches of bats. All our wheels have bat pins. The first batch=
=3D
of bats was made with exterior 3/4" plywood very well-finished with marine=
=3D
spar varnish=3D2C and they are still in good shape. The second batch was 1=
/2=3D
" Medex waterproof MDF=3D2C and were left unfinished. They were made in 200=
0=3D
=3D2C and are still in perfect condition. I do not like Masonite bats becau=
se=3D
they flex=3D2C and because double-tempered Masonite is almost impossible t=
o =3D
find these days=3D2C and single-tempered is not worth bothering with becaus=
e =3D
it breaks down quickly. I do not like plastic bats because they are too sli=
=3D
ppery and they are plastic. I do not like plaster bats because they are abs=
=3D
orbent=3D2C heavy=3D2C bulky=3D2C and vulnerable to chipping=3D2C which wil=
l contam=3D
inate your pots and cause lime pops. I see no advantage in plaster. In my o=
=3D
wn experience I have never found any bat material that is better than 1/2" =
=3D
Medex waterproof MDF. They require no finishing at all=3D2C and stay in per=
fe=3D
ct condition for decades.=3D20
=3D20
In the back of my book there are detailed instructions on how to make bats =
=3D
with proper bat-pin holes.
=3D20
Bear in mind that the above are just my own opinions=3D2C but they are base=
d =3D
on a whole lotta years of experience in clay.=3D20
- Vince
=3D20
=3D20
=3D
Steve Mills on sun 20 mar 11
This is interesting. In the past I had problems of the same nature as Lis, =
a=3D
nd subsequently found that the treated/varnished surface of the bat was to =
b=3D
lame, so took to using plain Ply or Medex.=3D20
I still use untreated bats of both sorts and have no problems with them deg=
r=3D
ading.=3D20
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
On 20 Mar 2011, at 10:36, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Lis Allison wrote:
> "I have a question about bats in general, not just masonite ones. I need =
t=3D
o make some very large-bottomed bases for small fountains. The largest bat =
I=3D
have is only 22" across, so I have to make a couple of larger ones, maybe =
a=3D
bout 26-28" across. Is plywood treated with varathane going to work? Also, =
I=3D
have trouble keeping the 22" one attached, in spite of bat pins and a clay=
p=3D
ancake. The force needed to open such a large lump of clay
> knocks it off every time. I've resorted to extruding a thick coil and add=
i=3D
ng it to the outside edge of a thick slab, but even so I had trouble keepin=
g=3D
the bat on."
>=3D20
> Lis -=3D20
> Medex waterproof MDF would definitely be the best material, and there is =
n=3D
o reason to apply any finish. You could use plywood finished with urethane=
,=3D
but that is a lot of trouble, and the MDF will hold up better over time.
>=3D20
> I have never heard of a process where you had to apply so much force that=
t=3D
he bat pulled off the wheel when well attached with pins and a thin ring of=
s=3D
oft clay around the outer edge of the wheel. I certainly believe you, and =
t=3D
he only thing I can think of is to actually screw the bats down to the whee=
l=3D
head. This would be simple and would work perfectly for your need. =3D20
>=3D20
> If you make bats specifically for this purpose, just drill the bat pin ho=
l=3D
es all the way through the MDF, countersink the holes on the top of the bat=
,=3D
and use short flat-head screws with a wing-nut on the bottom of the wheelh=
e=3D
ad. Then you wouldn't even have to use any clay beneath the bat. There is=
a=3D
small chance that the head of the screw might turn as you attempt to undo =
t=3D
he screw after throwing the form, but the worst case scenario is that you w=
o=3D
uld have to stick a screwdriver through the clay in the bottom of your pot =
t=3D
o lock the screw while you undo the wing nut. If that happened, it would b=
e=3D
a simple matter to seal up the hole in the clay after removing the wing nu=
t=3D
. =3D20
>=3D20
> Of course when you lift the bat off the wheel you will have to set it dow=
n=3D
on some bricks or wood slats, because the screws will be sticking down fro=
m=3D
the underside of the bat. =3D20
> - Vince
>=3D20
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu=3D20
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Lis Allison on sun 20 mar 11
On March 20, 2011, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Medex waterproof MDF would definitely be the best material, and there
> is no reason to apply any finish. You could use plywood finished with
> urethane, but that is a lot of trouble, and the MDF will hold up
> better over time.
>
> I have never heard of a process where you had to apply so much force
> that the bat pulled off the wheel when well attached with pins .....
Thanks, Vince and the others who made similar suggestions. I'll ask for
that tomorrow at the lumber store. And I will indeed drill holes right
through the bats the right size for carriage bolts so I can use wing nuts
etc to attach the bats. Maybe I didn't describe the problem I have quite
clearly - the bats don't exactly come right off, but they lift up on the
side opposite where I am applying force, thus becoming unstable. Maybe
there's a skill here I need to acquire, but I need these fountain bases
NOW!!
Cheers,
Lis
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
website: www.pine-ridge.ca
Pottery blog: www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Garden blog: www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Steve Mills on sun 20 mar 11
I can see where Mike and Phil are coming from, but I have to agree in the m=
a=3D
in with Vince.=3D20
For the first month or so while Students are learning the nuts and bolts of=
t=3D
hrowing they need a very structured regime, but once they start to get comf=
o=3D
rtable with the basics there is no need to be rigid. No two people throw th=
e=3D
same way, and a batch of new students 6 months on from when they started i=
l=3D
lustrate that diversity perfectly.=3D20
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
>=3D20
Lis Allison on sun 20 mar 11
On March 19, 2011, Philip Poburka wrote:
> I see no reason for using Splash Pans, other than .....
> Rightly prepared Clay of right consistency, and, knowing how to manage
> it as it wishes to be managed, and, one can stay clean while wearing a
> Black Suit, with no 'splash pans'...
That reminds me of the time I was at a throwing workshop and everyone was
astonished that I was throwing with my watch on..... and I was equally
surprised that they were not!
Lis
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
website: www.pine-ridge.ca
Pottery blog: www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Garden blog: www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Vince Pitelka on sun 20 mar 11
In regards to the use of bat pins and splash pans, Mike Gordon wrote:
"No, I don't believe in teaching bad habits just because they're there. The=
y
are crutches.
Hi Mike -
I really can't see where that kind of dogmatic absolutism has any place in
the classroom. It seems to me that you limited your students' possibilitie=
s
by enforcing strict, unreasonable, and unsupportable practices. What kind
of teaching is that?
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
John Rodgers on sun 20 mar 11
For my large platters, I made 24 inch diameter disks of MDF then
applied plastic laminate to both sides. I first cut them out using a
circle cutting extension on my router. Set it for 24 inches and
proceeded to cut. Next applied the laminate first to one side, then the
other, leaving a bit of overhand. I put the router back in place with a
chamfer bit and trimmed the laminate. The center hole where the router
guide mounted was simply plugged with a little bit of oil clay. Bat pin
holes were made by simply measuring the distance from the wheelhead
center then using a locator pin in the center of the new bat, and
marking bat pin positions. I didn't drill all the way through, just one
side of the bat, deep enough to set the disk over the pins. I made 6 of
these disks and they have held up for years.
John
> John Rodgers
> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> Chelsea, AL
> Http://www.moldhaus.comLis,
> Yes, treated plywood will work. Use more than one coat to get them t=
o
> last if they will get much use.
> You may want to consider how tight the holes are on your bats. For
> larger diameters you want them to fit fairly tight on the bat pins.
> I have found I only need clay on the wheelhead if the bat pin holes =
are
> worn and the bat is small. With a lot of clay on a large bat (I regularly
> use 24" bats and have used up to 36") gravity holds everything down very
> well! :-)
> It's easy to drill new holes in a bat. Just rotate the bat and make =
a
> new set of holes if you need them smaller in diameter.
> If the bat pins just don't function for the way you work, you may wa=
nt
> to consider the system David Hendley uses--boards fastened to the bottom =
of
> the bat that are snug to the wheel head. Use at least three in a sort of
> triangle. I tried that with 2x2 boards and it works very well also.
> Good potting!
> Dave Finkelnburg
> http://www.mattanddavesclays.com/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2011, Lis Allison wrote:
> I have a question about bats in general, not just masonite ones. I need t=
o
> make some very large-bottomed bases for small fountains. The largest bat =
I
> have is only 22" across, so I have to make a couple of larger ones, maybe
> about 26-28" across. Is plywood treated with varathane going to work?
>
> Also, I have trouble keeping the 22" one attached, in spite of bat pins
> and a clay pancake. The force needed to open such a large lump of clay
> knocks it off every time. I've resorted to extruding a thick coil and
> adding it to the outside edge of a thick slab, but even so I had trouble
> keeping the bat on.
>
>
paul gerhold on mon 21 mar 11
If you go to the hardware store you can get hex head bolts the same head
diameter as bat pins. You cause cut tubing the same ID as the OD of the
bolt to make much longer bat pins. I use pins about three quarters of an
inch when throwing really large amounts of clay.
You can also use bats about the same diameter as the wheel and fasten to th=
e
wheel head using two small screw clamps on opposite sides of the bat. I do
this after centering on really tall work to keep the pressure from lifting
the bat
Paul
On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Snail Scott wr=
ote:
> On Mar 19, 2011, at 1:52 PM, Lis Allison wrote:
> > ... The largest bat I
> > have is only 22" across, so I have to make a couple of larger ones, may=
be
> > about 26-28" across. Is plywood treated with varathane going to work?
>
> Yes, it works. Get the thick plywood, or if you want
> to avoid that, get thinner, but reinforce the rim with
> 1"x2" slats or something similar.
>
> >
> > Also, I have trouble keeping the 22" one attached, in spite of bat pins
> > and a clay pancake. The force needed to open such a large lump of clay
> > knocks it off every time...
>
> That much rotational force is hard to resist, but...
> since you have bat pins (and thus bat pin holes),
> could you bolt the bat on from the top? With a thick
> bat, recessing a space for a bolt head should be
> feasible. Use the same wing nuts you likely use for
> your current bat pins, and fasten from underneath.
>
> Or. to be less gymnastic about it, insert the bolts
> from underneath and tape in place to keep them
> from falling out, then mount the bat and use normal
> hex nuts to fasten. If the bolts are cut to the right
> length, the nut should end up flush with the bat top
> and no extra bolt length should protrude.
>
> The advantage of Plan A. above, is that you can
> get the bat off even if the clay covers the bolt heads.
> You just need to set the bat on a couple of slats after
> removal from the wheel, to allow for the dangling bolts
> remaining beneath.
>
> Plan B only works if you can access the nuts after
> the thrown form is completed, (open-centered ring
> forms, for instance) or if you can remove the form
> without taking the bat off the wheel (which seems
> fairly impractical).
>
> Haven't tried any of this...just speculating.
>
> -Snail
>
Taylor Hendrix on mon 21 mar 11
Let's not forget the really excellent Hendley bat system (my name for
it) for bats larger than the wheel head. Great for those of us who
choose no pins. Archives will have great information.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
wirerabbit1 on Skype (-0600 UTC)
http://wirerabbit.blogspot.com
http://wirerabbitpots.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wirerabbit/
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 8:54 AM, paul gerhold wr=
ote:
...
> You can also use bats about the same diameter as the wheel and fasten to =
the
> wheel head using two small screw clamps on opposite sides of the bat. I d=
o
> this after centering on really tall work to keep the pressure from liftin=
g
> the bat
...
Bonnie Staffel on mon 21 mar 11
I am sure you all know that I am a proponent of oiled Masonite bats and =3D
have
used the same ones for over 40 years with no deterioration of the =3D
correct
type, exterior tempered Masonite. (the real name escapes me as I had =3D
them
made so long ago including two 30" size.)=3D20
I also am a proponent of the doughnut to hold the bat in place =3D
eliminating
the use of pins. Also I would not even know where the pins were that I
removed from the wheel head that long ago.=3D20
As for throwing large platters, my Coil and Slab method eliminates any
problem of the force of centering dislodging the bat from the wheel =3D
head.
This method makes creating very large platters (which call for them =3D
being
hung on a wall as no cupboard is going to hold them) The method is =3D
easy
as pie and with common sense everyone could figure this out. The method =3D
has
been used by many cultures and even at age 89 throwing such a platter or
large base for a wide pot is a simple matter calling for no or little
strength.=3D20
I also promote that every potter should have an extruding pug mill to =3D
save
their wrists from damage down the line. Age brings along with it many
frailties, but to give up working in clay is not on my schedule, except =3D
for
the energy needed to keep at it.=3D20
Warm regards,
Bonnie
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD=3DA0 Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD=3DA0 Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
Philip Poburka on mon 21 mar 11
Hi Bonnie, all,
Yes, indeed, for Masonite Bats, the best performance, adhesion, stability
and durability, will be found for using the Tempered-two-Sides kind of
Masonite, and, soaking them preliminarily, and, once in a great while
there-after, in any of various 'Hardening Oils' used otherwise in Wood
Finishing.
Watco Oil, home-made blends of Linseed Oil, Turpentine and Japan drier, or
anything in their broader kin, is fine.
Immerse the Bats for half an hour, then hang by a Wire outdoors till dry.
One does well to remember that Rags which have residue of these kinds of
Oils, can spontaneously combust, so, any such Rags ought to be burned
intentionally in some safe manner, to prevent misadventure when using any o=
f
the traditional kinds of 'Hardening Oils'.
Love,
Phil
L v
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bonnie Staffel"
I am sure you all know that I am a proponent of oiled Masonite bats and hav=
e
used the same ones for over 40 years with no deterioration of the correct
type, exterior tempered Masonite. (the real name escapes me as I had them
made so long ago including two 30" size.)
I also am a proponent of the doughnut to hold the bat in place eliminating
the use of pins. Also I would not even know where the pins were that I
removed from the wheel head that long ago.
As for throwing large platters, my Coil and Slab method eliminates any
problem of the force of centering dislodging the bat from the wheel head.
This method makes creating very large platters (which call for them being
hung on a wall as no cupboard is going to hold them) The method is easy
as pie and with common sense everyone could figure this out. The method has
been used by many cultures and even at age 89 throwing such a platter or
large base for a wide pot is a simple matter calling for no or little
strength.
I also promote that every potter should have an extruding pug mill to save
their wrists from damage down the line. Age brings along with it many
frailties, but to give up working in clay is not on my schedule, except for
the energy needed to keep at it.
Warm regards,
Bonnie
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
Vince Pitelka on mon 21 mar 11
Lis Allison wrote:
"And I will indeed drill holes right through the bats the right size for =
=3D
carriage bolts so I can use wing nuts
etc to attach the bats. Maybe I didn't describe the problem I have quite =
=3D
clearly - the bats don't exactly come right off, but they lift up on the =
=3D
side opposite where I am applying force, thus becoming unstable. Maybe =3D
there's a skill here I need to acquire, but I need these fountain bases =3D
NOW!!"
Hi Lis -=3D20
Carriage bolts have round heads, and that would certainly be problematic =
=3D
if you are using a cutoff wire. I suggested flat-head screws. Once you =
=3D
countersink the MDF deeply enough, the head of the screws will be =3D
recessed and will not interfere with using a cutoff wire. Any hardware =3D
store will have 1/4" flat-head screws and the wing-nuts to fit them. =3D20
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu=3D20
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
David McBeth on tue 22 mar 11
We need a few extra bat pins, could you send 'em my way. I insist my
students use a splash pan because they don't promote excessive water use
unless the teacher is not paying attention to his or her students, BUT they
do contain mess and trimmings. I like to think there is no one right
universal way to do most everything.
Dave
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Mike Gordon wrote=
:
> I taught ceramics for thirty odd years and every wheel that came
> through the door..... the bat pins came off and were put in a drawer,
> the splash pans went up in the top shelf of the store room. You only
> need them if you need them for your own type of work. Splash pans are a
> crutch to use too much water, in my opinion. Mike Gordon
>
--
David McBeth
Professor of Art
Department of Visual and Theatre Arts
University of Tennessee - Martin
731-881-7416
Bonnie Staffel on tue 22 mar 11
Phil, your information was well said. However, I have never heard of
"hardening oil." I have used a motor oil which is available at the local =
=3D
gas
station which in my case do not think that it hardens. It does not =3D
reduce
the absorption of moisture from the clay which I want it to do. My work
dries and slips off the bats almost like it had the absorption of =3D
plaster,
just not as much. I choose the mechanics to work for me, not hinder me. =3D
I
would think that the Hardening Oil would create a non-absorptive surface =
=3D
but
I don't know. When the dried clay on my bats starts to look light, then =3D
it
tells me it is time to give the bats a soak in some more motor oil. I =3D
also
keep the oily rag in a tightly closed container and in all these years =3D
have
never had any spontaneous combustion.=3D20
I am aware of a lot of rules about materials, so I follow them as long =3D
as
they work for me in my time tested experiments. Many of the methods I =3D
use
were tested early in my career before I had access to the research =3D
material
available today, (yes, even before the advent of the computer), may be =3D
old
fashioned but if it ain't broke, why fix it? As time went on, I had to =3D
learn
about new substitutes for those things that went out of fashion or were =3D
no
longer available. I will admit to using the commercial glazes of the =3D
time,
but was not happy with the results and the cost at that time. Even used =3D
the
lead glazes as that was the norm back in the late 40s and early 50s.
I am still an avid reader of ceramic journals and the internet to keep =3D
up
with changes and new uses of materials. There just isn't enough time in
one's life to do all the things one aspires to achieve.=3D20
Regards, Bonnie=3D20
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD=3DA0 Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD=3DA0 Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
Vince Pitelka on tue 22 mar 11
David McBeth wrote:
"We need a few extra bat pins, could you send 'em my way. I insist my
students use a splash pan because they don't promote excessive water use
unless the teacher is not paying attention to his or her students, BUT they
do contain mess and trimmings. I like to think there is no one right
universal way to do most everything."
Hi David -
I agree. Cleanup is far easier when using splash pans, and it is no proble=
m
to teach the students to use less water. Bat pins make sense for too many
reasons to enumerate here.
In a separate Clayart post written by M.G., he said categorically that
splash pans and bat pins are a crutch and a bad habit. He also lauded all
the recognition he received for being a good teacher. Those things do not
compute. Would someone who is genuinely a good teacher say something on a
public Internet forum that is so insulting to anyone who uses a splash pan
and/or bat pins? Of course not.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Bonnie Staffel on thu 24 mar 11
OK, I thought I would climb on to this topic once more to accede to the =3D
use
of bat pins in a school or teaching facility. I can see where the =3D
doughnut
system would not be feasible in such a situation. However, as one =3D
progresses
to having one's own studio, one can follow whatever the potter feels =3D
will
fill his/her needs. As I have two wheels, one is always equipped with =3D
the
sustained wet doughnut, the other with the Giffin Grip.=3D20
My comments were for the studio potter and I can see where the two
situations do not preclude whether bat pins work or not, better or =3D
worse.=3D20
When I was at Cranbrook, my only "formal" education outside of the =3D
Toledo
Museum, we used the old method of small lumps of clay placed on the =3D
outer
rim of the bat. So when I got my own studio, actually bat pins were not =3D
my
norm and felt they were in the way. So in my case, the doughnut works =3D
for me
and passed this information on in the purpose of an alternative way to
handle the situation. I have been in private studio situations where bat
pins were used and felt frustrated with bats with worn holes, warped =3D
bats,
and even the plastic bats which had odd ways of placement. If a student
were faced with these situations, without anyone to set them straight =3D
that
it was not their fault, seemed to me that it would hinder their progress =
=3D
to
learn.
Thanks for listening.
Bonnie
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD=3DA0 Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD=3DA0 Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
| |
|
