rdowns on tue 16 apr 96
This is one of the reasons I did not become involved in the discussion of
cast ware as art that went on some time ago. I have no problem giving
credence to anyone who designs their own masters, makes the molds and then
casts them. However, upon looking in the Dallas phone book, there are 29
"hobby ceramics" shops listed! The stuff is everywhere around here. Every
time someone finds out I do pottery or comes to my house, I get the " i know
someone, my aunt makes, my mother-in-law makes, (etc.) ceramics. They do
the same thing as you do! They have all these little clay things they buy
at a store and the work looks just as good as yours!" Well, sorry, NOT!
Twenty four years of hard work, learning clay and glazes and firing do not
equal going to the ceramics store and buying precast work and glaze in a
bottle. One of these days I am going to blow a gasket when someone picks up
a crystalline bottle 15 inches hight with 4 inch crystals on it and says "
my (whatever) used this same glaze, bought it at the ceramics store!"
When I go to the outdoor shows, there are cast pieces everywhere, with
real pottery thrown in here and there. And it's all the same stuff, Duncan
molds, commercial glazes, etc. It urks me to no end to see this stuff
called art. Most of what shows up is white with black spots on it. I
obtained a business just like that several years ago to help someone out of
a bind. This girl was able to make the stuff just by asking questions in
the ceramics store and buying all the molds, kiln, and glaze. Anyone can do
this kind of thing, anyone!
Now I know there are people out here doing cast ware that is art, but
around here the ratio of cast artists to ceramic hobbyists is pretty low.
And each and every one of the ceramic hobbyists thinks they are doing high
art! So, when you talk about cast ware as art, remember that cast ware is
as common as shoe stores in some areas, and art is not what is comming out
of most of them!
Rose
ps. I truly hope I have not offended anyone here, just letting you know that
they are everywhere and comming to a town near you! Then you will have to
compete with everyone in the neighborhood to sell your work!
Dianna Rose Downs
in north central Texas
214-734-1329
http://www.why.net/home/gdowns/terra.html
http://www.dfw.net/mckinney/rdowns/rdowns.html
Carl D. Cravens on wed 17 apr 96
On Tue, 16 Apr 1996 18:26:57 EDT in list.clayart, you wrote:
> Now I know there are people out here doing cast ware that is art, but
>around here the ratio of cast artists to ceramic hobbyists is pretty low.
>And each and every one of the ceramic hobbyists thinks they are doing high
>art! So, when you talk about cast ware as art, remember that cast ware is
>as common as shoe stores in some areas, and art is not what is comming out
>of most of them!
I'd like to comment a bit here.
I don't disagree with your statements that most cast ware produced from
hobby ceramic shops isn't art. And I won't defend those who are poorly
informed enough to compare it to hand-thrown pottery and consider the
two of equal value. But it isn't really their fault that they don't
know the difference... if nobody teaches them and they don't delve
deeper on their own, they'll never understand. We can hope they'll
learn and I think having someone compare your art to a You Paint It,
We'll Do The Rest shop is a good opportunity to teach them... as long as
you can do so without coming off as defensive and making them think
you're *only* trying to justify what you've done.
But that aside... I'd like to consider the hobbiest that likes to do
this kind of work. My mother-in-law is one. She's primarily a
tole-painter and a darn good one at that, but a friend of hers talked
her into buying a kiln at an estate sale and she's done quite a few "buy
some greenware, fire it, glaze it with store-bought, and fire it again"
projects. Nothing really involved... didn't even know the firing range
of her kiln until I asked (didn't realize that there were cone numbers
that *didn't* start with 0). She followed the instructions she was
given and turned out some nice pieces. They weren't "art" (a nebulous
word, that) but they were nice hobby-craft items. Even sold a few (to
those kinda folks that'll buy anything if it's blue). She didn't learn
a thing about clay, glaze formulas (she'd be surprised if I told her she
could mix her own), high-firing, or anything like that... she just
learned how to fire it, glaze it, then fire it again, all according to
basic instructions. But my point here is, *she had fun doing it*. I
don't think we should be down on those who enjoy this as a hobby... if
they like it, that's *great*.
What's not great is when the serious artist (or even the casual artists)
gets slighted by by-the-book production-run cast ware ceramics, either
in word or in the marketplace. I detest seeing shows full of the
stuff... mostly because they aren't even putting any effort into what
they *are* doing. Slap some glaze or paint on it and they think it'll
sell. This is where the person doing the work is out of line... they've
taken a hobby and decided that it's marketable. And some of it IS. (To
those folks that'll buy anything in blue.) And they're cheaper... "I
really like that vase over at O'Toole's Fine Ceramic Ware, but this vase
is one-tenth the price, even though it's not as nice. I think I'll
settle for this cheaper one. Too bad O'Toole's stuff is so expensive."
Gotta hate it, eh? (I just went to a woodcarver's show... *beautiful*
stuff, but I don't have the money for that kind of art. If I had $3000
bucks to blow, I'd have the coooooolest hand-carved lion you've ever
seen. But I would have had to dust it too often, so I passed.)
Everyone's got a right to do what they want to do. Sell ceramic
supplies to my mother-in-law, do cheap ceramics... even sell cheap
finished ceramics if they can find a market. The problem lies in those
who cannot tell art and fine craftsmanship from run-of-the-mill ceramics
made by hobbiests. The problem lies primarily in teaching appreciation,
not in those who care to go no further than a brief flirtation with the
basics of ceramics.
All of this was kind of an off-the-top-of-my-head, gut reaction to this
discussion... am I off-base with this?
--
Carl (ravenpub@southwind.net)
* Talk is cheap because supply inevitably exceeds demand.
Lynne Crumpacker on wed 17 apr 96
Carl D. Cravens wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> On Tue, 16 Apr 1996 18:26:57 EDT in list.clayart, you wrote:
> > Now I know there are people out here doing cast ware that is art, but
> >around here the ratio of cast artists to ceramic hobbyists is pretty low.
> >And each and every one of the ceramic hobbyists thinks they are doing high
> >art! So, when you talk about cast ware as art, remember that cast ware is
> >as common as shoe stores in some areas, and art is not what is comming out
> >of most of them!
>
> I'd like to comment a bit here.
>
> I don't disagree with your statements that most cast ware produced from
> hobby ceramic shops isn't art. And I won't defend those who are poorly
> informed enough to compare it to hand-thrown pottery and consider the
> two of equal value. But it isn't really their fault that they don't
> know the difference... if nobody teaches them and they don't delve
> deeper on their own, they'll never understand. We can hope they'll
> learn and I think having someone compare your art to a You Paint It,
> We'll Do The Rest shop is a good opportunity to teach them... as long as
> you can do so without coming off as defensive and making them think
> you're *only* trying to justify what you've done.
>
> But that aside... I'd like to consider the hobbiest that likes to do
> this kind of work. My mother-in-law is one... she just
> learned how to fire it, glaze it, then fire it again, all according to
> basic instructions. But my point here is, *she had fun doing it*. I
> don't think we should be down on those who enjoy this as a hobby... if
> they like it, that's *great*...The problem lies primarily in teaching apprecia
> All of this was kind of an off-the-top-of-my-head, gut reaction to this
> discussion... am I off-base with this?
> Carl (ravenpub@southwind.net)
>
Carl,
Personally, I don't think you're off base.
When someone is looking at my pots and says, either proudly or somewhat
appoligetically, "I do ceramics." I always say : "Oh, you do HOBBY
ceramics? That"s GREAT! Then you already know about the glazing part of
making pots...." and that leads to a short discussion about starting with the
clay ,etc.
Having STANDARDS is necessary but we need to remember that we're not
the only ones living on this ever-smaller planet.
Lynne Crumpacker
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