Ken Nowicki on fri 26 sep 97
Mel-san... :-) Thanks for starting to get us all "jacked" about NCECA
98'... I for one commend your idea and efforts about the Clayarter's Room and
Receptions you're planning... good show!
The Cup Sale:
Just tossing this out as "food for thought"... let's see if any of you feel
the same way or have any suggestions maybe we could pass along to those in
charge of NCECA...
Q. Was I the only one who found it (at the very least) difficult to get a
chance to browse and shop of cups offered at the "Cup Sale" at the Las Vegas
NCECA? How about in past NCECA conferences?
I had heard at this years conference, people had begun lining up (sleeping
out in the hallway) the night BEFORE in order to secure a place in line for
the sale the next morning! This doesn't seem right to me... I mean, you'd
think they were selling tickets to a Stones concert! ...lol It seems that
there must be a better way to allow NCECA members to have a better chance to
buy cups from the Cup Sale, without having to "stake out" a place in line at
3:30 AM... I've only attended the San Diego (first yr for Cup Sale) and Vegas
conferences... and neither one seemed like it was set up very fairly in my
opinion.
One friend mentioned that at one conference (I think he said New Orleans)...
they had some kind of a lottery, numbering sytem, or something to that
effect, so that everyone at least had a fair shot at an opportunity to get in
before they were all picked clean. (I'm sorry, but the exact system mentioned
slips my mind) Regardless, it seems that something can be done to improve
this situation. Any thoughts or experiences from all of you? Perhaps even a
limit of buying say... 2 or 3 cups should be imposed? What do you think?
Ken Nowicki
RakuArtist@aol.com
...where it's raining today for the first time in ages! ...Encino, CA
Barbara Lewis on sat 27 sep 97
I agree with the lottery idea. I for one am too old to entertain the idea
of camping out overnight in the hallway of a hotel (not unless I bring an
inflatable mattress and down comforter). However, in San Diego I got a
great coffee mug made by Pete Pinnell at the Studio Potter fund-raiser. I
think the idea of having to camp out or spend long hours waiting in line is
time ill-spent because it takes you away from the many other things that are
of value at the Conference.
Barbara Lewis
WellSpring ClayWorks
5412 Well Spring Road
La Plata, MD 20646
(301) 932-3915
blewis@crosslink.net
At 08:37 AM 9/26/97 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Mel-san... :-) Thanks for starting to get us all "jacked" about NCECA
>98'... I for one commend your idea and efforts about the Clayarter's Room and
>Receptions you're planning... good show!
>
>The Cup Sale:
>
>Just tossing this out as "food for thought"... let's see if any of you feel
>the same way or have any suggestions maybe we could pass along to those in
>charge of NCECA...
>
>Q. Was I the only one who found it (at the very least) difficult to get a
>chance to browse and shop of cups offered at the "Cup Sale" at the Las Vegas
>NCECA? How about in past NCECA conferences?
>
>I had heard at this years conference, people had begun lining up (sleeping
>out in the hallway) the night BEFORE in order to secure a place in line for
>the sale the next morning! This doesn't seem right to me... I mean, you'd
>think they were selling tickets to a Stones concert! ...lol It seems that
>there must be a better way to allow NCECA members to have a better chance to
>buy cups from the Cup Sale, without having to "stake out" a place in line at
>3:30 AM... I've only attended the San Diego (first yr for Cup Sale) and Vegas
>conferences... and neither one seemed like it was set up very fairly in my
>opinion.
>
>One friend mentioned that at one conference (I think he said New Orleans)...
>they had some kind of a lottery, numbering sytem, or something to that
>effect, so that everyone at least had a fair shot at an opportunity to get in
>before they were all picked clean. (I'm sorry, but the exact system mentioned
>slips my mind) Regardless, it seems that something can be done to improve
>this situation. Any thoughts or experiences from all of you? Perhaps even a
>limit of buying say... 2 or 3 cups should be imposed? What do you think?
>
>Ken Nowicki
>RakuArtist@aol.com
>
> ...where it's raining today for the first time in ages! ...Encino, CA
>
debra ulland on sat 27 sep 97
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
The purpose of the cup sale is to raise money for a Scholarship Fund. I
think that with that in mind
the Powers That Be would not care if someone came in and bought the whole
collection. If you want a piece by a particular artist I am sure you could
contact that potter to make arrangements to buy something. And yes it is
something buying a Stones ticket.
Debra Ulland
>
>One friend mentioned that at one conference (I think he said New Orleans)...
>they had some kind of a lottery, numbering sytem, or something to that
>effect, so that everyone at least had a fair shot at an opportunity to get in
>before they were all picked clean. (I'm sorry, but the exact system mentioned
>slips my mind) Regardless, it seems that something can be done to improve
>this situation. Any thoughts or experiences from all of you? Perhaps even a
>limit of buying say... 2 or 3 cups should be imposed? What do you think?
>
>Ken Nowicki
>RakuArtist@aol.com
>
> ...where it's raining today for the first time in ages! ...Encino, CA
>
>
Louis Katz on sat 27 sep 97
Dear Ken,
The cup sale was a topic of discussion at our board meeting in May we did
limit the number of cups that can be bought at one time. My understanding
is that visiting the sale before the bidding starts has always been
possible. The problem is that the NCECA days are very jammed with many
activities. According to the Tenatative Calendar, this y ear cup
submissions are on Wednesday, the preview is on Thursday from 10AM to 5PM,
the sale begins on Friday at 8am and ends at 4PM. The cup sale will be
held in the Radisson Plaza.
The best way to effect change in how a program is handled at the conference
is to volunteer to help change it. The best time to provide criticism is at
the Saturday meeting after the final presentation of the conference or in
writing before the May board meeting. Although I will bring all NCECA
correspondence sent to me via clayart or otherwise to the meeting at the
Fall Symposium, my understandi is that most discussion of how programs will
be run takes place in May while the last conference is still fresh.
Dick Notkin and I will be making sure that setups in rooms are appropriate,
with slide projectors working well, and reserved seating for the hearing
and sight impaired members who need it. This will involve a lot of legwork.
It is unlikely that we will see many of the presentations. Although board
members try to see as much of the conference as possible, much of the
boards time is spent facilitating presentors, and taking care of making
sure everything is set up and running properly. It is critical that the
board recieve feedback and my first experience at a May meeting tells me
that written suggestions are given very careful consideration.
Louis
Director at Large NCECA
lkatz@falcon.tamucc.edu
TAMUCC The Island University
Craig Fent on sat 27 sep 97
I was at New Orleans and yes there was a lottery. But as you indicated,
without a limit on the number of cups to purchase it really didn't work.
People just found friends with low lottery numbers and had them buy the cups
they wanted. I think it should be limited to one cup, then if there are more
cups than numbers they could start over or just throw it open. I doubt there
would be any left after the first round anyway.
Craig Fent in Norman, OK
Cheryl L Litman on mon 29 sep 97
The NCECA where they handed out lottery tickets with numbers would have
worked fine if they had stuck to the one person, one cup rule. Instead
there were a number of people with low numbers who went in buying for
their friends with higher numbers. I saw several coming out with boxes
full of cups.
One cup per person would be more fair given the number of people wanting
to buy.
I've kind of wondered if it wouldn't be nice to give first pick to those
who donate cups? Any thoughts on this?
Cheryl Litman
Rick Sherman on mon 29 sep 97
------------------------original message------------------------------
The purpose of the cup sale is to raise money for a Scholarship
Fund. I think that with that in mind the Powers That Be would not
care if someone came in and bought the whole collection. If you want
a piece by a particular artist I am sure you could contact that potter
to make arrangements to buy something. And yes it is something buying
a Stones ticket.
--------------------------and Louis Katz says-------------------------
The cup sale was a topic of discussion at our board meeting in May we
did limit the number of cups that can be bought at one time. My
understanding is that visiting the sale before the bidding starts has
always been possible. The problem is that the NCECA days are very
jammed with many activities. According to the Tenatative Calendar,
this y ear cup submissions are on Wednesday, the preview is on
Thursday from 10AM to 5PM, the sale begins on Friday at 8am and ends
at 4PM. The cup sale will be held in the Radisson Plaza.
--------------------------comment-----------------------------------
The Powers that Be do care about our enjoying the cup sale as well as
building the scholarship fund. Some of them want to get cups too but
have so many responsibilities they can't camp out.
The lottery idea is the best. We have worked it for sales of a
limited amount of work out here. The major concern is that there must
be a set time when everyone can be present for the drawing.
RS
San Jose, CA
Rick Sherman on mon 29 sep 97
--------------------From Louis Katz--------------------------------
The best way to effect change in how a program is handled at the
conference is to volunteer to help change it. The best time to provide
criticism is at the Saturday meeting after the final presentation of
the conference or in writing before the May board meeting.
-----------------------Response-------------------------------------
My experience has been that the best time to present new ideas is at
the NCECA Board Meeting immediatly following the Conference. That is,
if you intend to stay that long. On most issues, the Board is
receptive to ideas. Yes, and it is a good idea to put thoughts in
writing and present them at that time. I know Louis is getting a lot
of feedback through Clayart. That helps too.
Rick Sherman
San Jose, CA
James Henry Gorman on mon 29 sep 97
Make it a " cup auction" limit 2 cups. Have a mim. bid !
This way everyboby has a fair chance to get the cups they
want!!!! have $10 do I hear $20
no camping out ,no pushing ,no bullshit
jim gorman
sporter on mon 29 sep 97
I have been to the NCECA Cup sale several times and found it frustrating.
I know it is for a good cause and have tried to support it because of that
reason. Have any of the people in charge thought about a silent auction
type event? It might possibly increase the revenues from the art works for
the fund.
S. Porter
Grimmer on mon 29 sep 97
Hi,
Climbing on soap box here. Fitting Kaowool suit. ON BELAY!!
NCECA is not a Borg-like collective (Resistance is futile! Negotiation is
irrelevant!) running an autonomous event. NCECA is a
*membership*-run organization devoted to education and whatever else
the *membership* sees fit. How does one change it? Join. Attend the
meetings. Write. Talk. Become involved.
The "Powers That Be" are some of the most selfless, devoted, and
dedicated people one could hope to meet. The ceramics world would be a
much smaller place were it not for ALL their efforts. To them, I raise my
glass. Here, here! (rather)
OFF BELAY!
steve grimmer
marion, illinois
Debra Ulland wrote:
>I think that with that in mind
>the Powers That Be would not care if someone came in and bought the >whole
>collection.
Louis Katz wrote:
>
SNIP!
> The best way to effect change in how a program is handled at the conference
> is to volunteer to help change it. The best time to provide criticism is at
> the Saturday meeting after the final presentation of the conference or in
> writing before the May board meeting. Although I will bring all NCECA
> correspondence sent to me via clayart or otherwise to the meeting at the
> Fall Symposium, my understandi is that most discussion of how programs will
> be run takes place in May while the last conference is still fresh.
>
> Dick Notkin and I will be making sure that setups in rooms are appropriate,
> with slide projectors working well, and reserved seating for the hearing
> and sight impaired members who need it. This will involve a lot of legwork.
> It is unlikely that we will see many of the presentations. Although board
> members try to see as much of the conference as possible, much of the
> boards time is spent facilitating presentors, and taking care of making
> sure everything is set up and running properly. It is critical that the
> board recieve feedback and my first experience at a May meeting tells me
> that written suggestions are given very careful consideration.
>
> Louis
> Director at Large NCECA
> lkatz@falcon.tamucc.edu
> TAMUCC The Island University
SNAP!
James Dapogny on mon 29 sep 97
Why not have a limit of one cup purchasable until everyone waiting has
chosen/purchased one. Then let those who want more return. ???
--Gail Dapogny in Ann Arbor
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> The purpose of the cup sale is to raise money for a Scholarship Fund. I
>think that with that in mind
>the Powers That Be would not care if someone came in and bought the whole
>collection. If you want a piece by a particular artist I am sure you could
>contact that potter to make arrangements to buy something. And yes it is
>something buying a Stones ticket.
>
>Debra Ulland
>>
>>One friend mentioned that at one conference (I think he said New Orleans)...
>>they had some kind of a lottery, numbering sytem, or something to that
>>effect, so that everyone at least had a fair shot at an opportunity to get in
>>before they were all picked clean. (I'm sorry, but the exact system mentioned
>>slips my mind) Regardless, it seems that something can be done to improve
>>this situation. Any thoughts or experiences from all of you? Perhaps even a
>>limit of buying say... 2 or 3 cups should be imposed? What do you think?
>>
>>Ken Nowicki
>>RakuArtist@aol.com
>>
>> ...where it's raining today for the first time in ages! ...Encino, CA
>>
>>
James Dapogny James Dapogny
School of Music, University of Michigan 1154 Olden Road
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2085 Ann Arbor, MI 48107-3005
(313) 764-5572; fax: (313) 763-5097 phone and fax: (313) 665-9816
e-mail: jdapogny@umich.edu e-mail: jdapogny@umich.edu
Karen Gringhuis on mon 29 sep 97
Louis - I hope you're gathering these thoughts for the Board
as you said. All this yammering about the cup sale to me is
absurd. Lottery system, one cup per customer - fair & square, over and out. this is NOT rocket science!
I have never gone near the cup sale & don't intend to. I might
go sometime just to look or might donate. But truthfully all
this brouhaha over sleeping in the hall and unfair sales is
a TOTAL TURNOFF & DISGUSTING. Did it ever occur to anyone that
the support & sales might be even greater if it were an orderly
fair & square proposition? Past experience should tell us
(if anyone kept notes) how many people will be let in within
a given time span so people could waste a minimum of time in
line. And don't tie admission to the sale to whether
someone donated a cup - that just muddies the waters.
With what it costs most of us to attend NCECA, to get all
worked up & invest valuable time waiting to buy a cup!! is
NOT my idea of time well spent - no matter who made that cup!
and no mater how little it costs - period.
Back to work. Karen Gringhuis
Louis Katz on tue 30 sep 97
=3C/NOFILL=3E
------------------
I will present all of your opinions, ideas, and thoughts formally to
the board when we meet to plan Columbus. I will discuss the issue with
board members at the symposium. I will express the strong sentiments
in favor of the lottery. If anyone knows how the lottery worked in New
Orleans could you email me a description offline?
Many NCECA decisions are made on the basis of ease of implementation.
Since the focus of the cup sale was originally to provide funds for
students, most decisions about the sale are made to maximize revenue,
while minimizing work. Many people have enjoyed viewing the cups
before the sale, and a full day is allowed for that. I am glad that I
don't work the cup sale, but those of you who feel stongest about how
it is run should volunteer to work the sale. We read the report of the
person who ran it last year before we decided how it should be run
this year.
By the time the my first year on the board is out I will have worked
for NCECA 13 days out of town, and a substantial amount of time at
home. The executive committee spends even more time and tackles more
substantive problems than the ones I deal with. I am right now
unwilling to undertake much more than I am already doing and planning
to do for NCECA, and I wonder how some other board members are able to
justify the work they do for the organization. I will be mostly
offline until the end of The Holidays (Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur),
but I will read all posts pertaining to NCECA or containing my name. I
wish you all a happy, productive, and healthy New Year.
Louis
geneviev@southwind.net on thu 2 oct 97
This is one of those dumb questions, I have to ask. I realize the cup sale
money raised goes for student scholarships. Might I ask what kind of
scholarships, number of scholarships??? Application process?? We are a =
group
dedicated to Ceramic Arts Education, but it doesn't seem to me that it helps
students much, rather we are more interested in keeping ourselves educated.
This I believe is also important, however I feel strongly we need to do as =
much
as we can to encourage newcomers. After all, the new comers are what will
continue our =22craft=22 well after we are all gone, and they also help keep=
us all
on our toes.
Kris
----------
From: Louis Katz=5BSMTP:lkatz=40falcon.tamucc.edu=5D
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 1997 6:50 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list CLAYART
Subject: Re: NCECA 98' =26 thoughts about =22Cup Sale=22
=3CNOFILL=3E=3CPARAM=3EInsert plain text message here=3C/PARAM=3E
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
=3C/NOFILL=3E
------------------
I will present all of your opinions, ideas, and thoughts formally to
the board when we meet to plan Columbus. I will discuss the issue with
board members at the symposium. I will express the strong sentiments
in favor of the lottery. If anyone knows how the lottery worked in New
Orleans could you email me a description offline?
Many NCECA decisions are made on the basis of ease of implementation.
Since the focus of the cup sale was originally to provide funds for
students, most decisions about the sale are made to maximize revenue,
while minimizing work. Many people have enjoyed viewing the cups
before the sale, and a full day is allowed for that. I am glad that I
don't work the cup sale, but those of you who feel stongest about how
it is run should volunteer to work the sale. We read the report of the
person who ran it last year before we decided how it should be run
this year.
By the time the my first year on the board is out I will have worked
for NCECA 13 days out of town, and a substantial amount of time at
home. The executive committee spends even more time and tackles more
substantive problems than the ones I deal with. I am right now
unwilling to undertake much more than I am already doing and planning
to do for NCECA, and I wonder how some other board members are able to
justify the work they do for the organization. I will be mostly
offline until the end of The Holidays (Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur),
but I will read all posts pertaining to NCECA or containing my name. I
wish you all a happy, productive, and healthy New Year.
Louis
Hluch - Kevin A. on thu 2 oct 97
"Recent experience has shown us that a cup cannot be considered a
work of art," Gavin shot back with a look that just grazed the delightful
cleavage slightly exposed by Alice's blouse.
"How can that be the case when there are literally thousands of
historical examples from Kamares ware through Chinese stem cups to
Japanese teabowls and, of course, all the work produced by contemporary potters
like Warren Backenzie?" Alice replied.
"Alice, while I'd like to agree with you, times have changed. Try
as you might, you won't find a cup thought of as a work of art by
contemporary critics or curators unless of course an artist made the
cup and it can't really be used. A useful cup made by a craftsman is
still craft. That's just the way it is. Art, as it is defined today,
precludes utilitarian function or use. Why do you think Thomas's
organisation changed the entire orientation of historical craft
expressions? My God Alice, you won't even see utilitarian pottery exhibitions
at the Wenrick Gallery! And that's the nation's craft museum! Why do you
think that the AGPG produces no cups, mugs or any other type of drinking
vessel?" Gavin asked.
"Well, one of reasons is that all of you artists have to pay for
some huge overhead including the bloated salary of your commander-in-chief,
Thomas Coinhead. Not to mention the expensive real estate costs where
your galleries are located. Not to mention all of the marketing costs,
tear sheets, photograghy and computer gear. Not to mention the clerks and
accountants. Not to mention the cost of the outside curators that are
brought in to blow extatic about each exhibition that's put on. It's not wonder
cups aren't thought of as art. They don't generate enough
income to pay for the hangers-on and all that other crap. If the potters
who don't belong to your exclusivie little club didn't live in bumfuck
Egypt they wouldn't make cups either!" she miffed.
"Then you understand!" Gavin gushed, misreading her badly. "Why
waste my valuable time and energy to make something that can't pull its
own weight, cash-wise?" he said with a defensive posture in his voice.
"I don't think your group believes in 'art for arts sake' at all,
I think you believe it's 'art for money's sake' and I find that a TOTAL
TURNOFF AND DISGUSTING!" Alice responded.
Oddly, for some yet undetectable reason, Gavin felt a shiver climb
slowly up his spine. From there a sense of ominous foreboding lept to the
forefront of his brain.
"What, precisely, is so disgusting?" Thomas growled from the open
doorway located behind them.
Kevin A. Hluch
102 E. 8th St.
Frederick, MD 21701
USA
e-mail: kahluch@umd5.umd.edu
http://www.erols.com/mhluch/mudslinger.html
On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, Karen Gringhuis wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Louis - I hope you're gathering these thoughts for the Board
> as you said. All this yammering about the cup sale to me is
> absurd. Lottery system, one cup per customer - fair & square, > over and out. this is NOT rocket science!
>
> I have never gone near the cup sale & don't intend to. I might
> go sometime just to look or might donate. But truthfully all
> this brouhaha over sleeping in the hall and unfair sales is
> a TOTAL TURNOFF & DISGUSTING. Did it ever occur to anyone that
> the support & sales might be even greater if it were an orderly
> fair & square proposition? Past experience should tell us
> (if anyone kept notes) how many people will be let in within
> a given time span so people could waste a minimum of time in
> line. And don't tie admission to the sale to whether
> someone donated a cup - that just muddies the waters.
>
> With what it costs most of us to attend NCECA, to get all
> worked up & invest valuable time waiting to buy a cup!! is
> NOT my idea of time well spent - no matter who made that cup!
> and no mater how little it costs - period.
>
> Back to work. Karen Gringhuis
>
Kathy on fri 3 oct 97
At 12:15 AM 9/29/97 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Make it a " cup auction" limit 2 cups. Have a mim. bid !
>This way everyboby has a fair chance to get the cups they
>want!!!! have $10 do I hear $20
> no camping out ,no pushing ,no bullshit
>jim gorman
>
My first NCECA was last year,,,,,I donated a cup and i REALLY wanted
to get one. I had NO IDEA what was entailed in getting one.....
my thoughts at the time were that an auction would be a much fairer
and much more civilized way of handling things. (if we wanna be civilized)
Our local arts group has a similiar thing every year as a fundraiser
.....pricier items are auctioned by an auctioneer,,,,,,other items
are auctioned by a silent auction:
(ie: piece of paper where you write your bid and name on a list.....not too
difficult to organize and fun to watch names being scratched off and bidding
wars take place)
Could be a real fun social event!!!
The bidding really takes off after the wine bar opens...:)).
Just my two cents worth.... I concur with Jim.
Kathy McDonald
mcdonaldk@docker.com
http://www.docker.com/~mcdonaldk
{enter at your own risk...currently being constructed}
Louis Katz on sat 4 oct 97
> I realize the cup sale
> money raised goes for student scholarships. Might I ask what kind of
> scholarships, number of scholarships??? Application process?? We are a
group
> dedicated to Ceramic Arts Education, but it doesn't seem to me that it
helps
> students much, rather we are more interested in keeping ourselves
educated.
> This I believe is also important, however I feel strongly we need to do
as much
> as we can to encourage newcomers. After all, the new comers are what
will
> continue our "craft" well after we are all gone, and they also help keep
us all
> on our toes.
>
> Kris
The Student Fellowships are given out in alternate years. This is an off
year. Awards will be made in Columbus. The application process is announced
in the NCECA Newsletter. The fellowships are for special projects and are
not intended to be used for tuition. The Student Fellowship is in the
jurisdiction of the NCECA Past President. A committee is appointed to
review the applications and make recommendations to the NCECA board.
Louis
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