Karen Kuehl on thu 6 feb 97
I have been throwing pots since October. What does it take to consider
myself an artist/potter?
Emily Pearlman on fri 7 feb 97
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I have been throwing pots since October. What does it take to consider
>myself an artist/potter?
You have to decide that. I was a potter at the beginning and I still am,
and its beginning to be a long time.
Emily
Emily Pearlman-Pottery (clayfeat@echonyc.com)
http://humanarts.com/emilypearlman
http://www.craftweb.com/org/pearlman/pearlman.htm
(in NYC)
Carol Ratliff.clayart.CLAYART.MAILING LIST on sat 8 feb 97
I asked that same question once and was told "another 20 years" I found that
kinda depressing, but looking at it optomistically now... I only have 10
years to go. It's sorta like a teenager asking when will they be
considered a grownup. Some of us hope we never grow up & many don't. Others
are far more mature before 20 than I was.
So.... don't worry about it. Enjoy your clay and exploring your creative
side and call your self a new potter.
Carol Ratliff, San Diego
Louis A. Ballard on sat 8 feb 97
i was told it takes seven years of making pots to make a potter...
anyone agree or disagree?...as for the artist part that's up to
you,,,looeeballard in his ninth year.
Christine Mettling on sun 9 feb 97
Karen:
Unfortunately I'm not sure what the answer to your question is but what
I'd like to mention is that since I have been a part of clay art (about
one year), I don't see many other potters respond to participants on
this list that admit they are new to the art (I'm a new potter too).
I'm sure this has to do with a couple of things. Largely, it's probably
due to the fact that as new potters we don't have much knowledge to
contribute to Clayart--not as much as experienced potters do. It's just
difficult to engage others at our level when they are knowledged and
skilled beyond us (I watch and learn and will contribute some day).
Yet...
I also suspect that it's not very cool to communicate with the newbies
either (I have no serious problem with this, it's just an
observation).
Anyway, I just thought I'd mention this in case you don't get the
response you hoped for from your posting.
Chris
Karen Kuehl wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I have been throwing pots since October. What does it take to consider
> myself an artist/potter?
Vince Pitelka on sun 9 feb 97
At 10:40 AM 2/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I asked that same question once and was told "another 20 years"
This is absurd. Whoever said this to you was terribly insecure, seeking to
build him/herself up by knocking others down. I think this situation is
similar to what children encounter with art. Every child is born an artist.
If allowed to grow and develop without adults imposing restrictive notions
of pictorial representation, they will likely become very good artists.
Everyone who picks up clay and makes pots with dedication and purpose is a
potter. It takes great practice and self discipline to become a really good
potter.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@Dekalb.Net
Phone - home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801
Appalachian Center for Crafts
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
John Guerin on mon 10 feb 97
In a message dated 97-02-09 12:35:11 EST, vpitelka@dekalb.net (Vince Pitelka)
writes:
<< I asked that same question once and was told "another 20 years"
This is absurd. Whoever said this to you was terribly insecure, seeking to
build him/herself up by knocking others down. I think this situation is
similar to what children encounter with art. Every child is born an artist.
If allowed to grow and develop without adults imposing restrictive notions
of pictorial representation, they will likely become very good artists.
Everyone who picks up clay and makes pots with dedication and purpose is a
potter. It takes great practice and self discipline to become a really good
potter.
- Vince >>
Very well put Vince. I see this occuring occasionally not only on the CLATART
list but on other lists also. What I am referring to is some of the
"experienced" participants who have been on the list for awhile taking shots
an the newer people for asking 'beginner' questions which they say are too
basic for the list. The purpose of the List is to share experience at all
levels. THERE ARE NO DUMB QUESTIONS, ONLY DUMB ANSWERS.
John Guerin
Tucson,AZ
Hiro Matsusaki on wed 12 feb 97
-------------------------Original Message--------------------
I have followed this thread on what makes a potter a potter, and agree with
almost all the postings listed. They may sound contradictory, but I do feel
as if those events, feelings and statements took place only yesterday.
There are many anomalies in equating the clay experience with the number of
years spent. Clay is a vast field. It covers both space age ceramic engines
and very old sculptures that led to present day Maya ruins. As far as I can
see, many with a lot of knowledge about clay seem to feel comfortable in one
specialty. New developments take place almost daily. But few seems to be
able to afford experimentation to diversify. Of those, only a lucky few
appear to succeed. This is based on my personal observations. It's just
like any other art field, I guess.
Clay challenges our imagination. It invites us to try new things. No one
has experience in new techniques, and be up to date on all of them. One year
is plenty in such an environment to study what's what. Technical matters are
mosty in black and white, or published in the ceramic world for all to see.
Easy to accumulate proper knowledge under such circumstances,
Still, there are those aspects of clay which are better learned by doing.
It's a tremendous advantage to be a fourth generation potter from Japan
(sorry, I am not one who can help you on this score). There's nothing more
useful than the old fashioned apprenticeship, even in this day and age. Or,
be a part of the academic community by attending courses. To me, that looks
like the easiest, quickest and most efficient way to learn. But the
experience (read the knowledge) is as good as the source. Apprenticing with
a master potter has no substitute. With a non-artistically inclined
production potter? That will be the experience you don't need. Forget it.
A greedy clay person will take from you far more than you can get in return
for your love of clay. And you'll end up not even having learned the basics.
I saw this happen.
I prefer to include in the clay experience we talk about those visists to
museums, exotic places, ceramic studios, workshops, and libraries of books,
videos, and many nice things which are not necessarily associated to the
matters directly related to clay. (I can say this since I am not a tax
collector who worry about the implications of those deductibles under the
banner of research and development for production and marketing, or what have
you, to which most of you are entitled, I am sure, if you care to do
research.) Just enrich your eyes to discern beautiful things and "other" art
forms or crafts. If you have "experience" in such media, share "it". You'll
be surprised to learn that regular clay people are more receptive to it than
the chronological old age.
I'll conclude this posting with a personal note addressed to the imaginary
new potter who initiated the thread recently, I speak from my experience.
There are not many who talk about 10 to 20 years to a "one year experience"
person. But it happened to me. Mine was ten years. By that definition I
would have accumulated maybe less than one year since then. That's why I
still think I am a newbie. Maybe I still have an old fashioned inferiority
complex, judging from the fact the quoted exchange took place about a decade
ago. My situation is unique, granted. But maybe not. In all likelihood,
you are already talented and good, after one year. Maybe you are a potential
threat in many ways to the person benefiting from the long years of local
(read localized) monopoly experience. Who knows?
By the way, you can take this matter of experience positively. I like the
term "new" rather than "old". Go ahead and do your own things now. A new
potter is permitted, or rather encouraged, to make mistakes. In politics, it
is that honeymoon period. This is the time to experiment at someone's
expense, if you know what you are doing. An old potter must do it at one's
own expense. You are not an old one. Benefit from your new experience.
Then learn to live with it. Once people start getting critical of you,
perhaps you wilI have passed the acid test, and qualify yourself as "old
potter". That has not happened to me yet. But it may happen to you sooner
than you think.
I'm a newbie in cyber space, as well, although I lived more than ten years
with an old CPM 80 operating system machine before upgrading to a Pentium.
From 280 Kb to 48MB EDO RAM. Technically, that's 2,000 times more space
(?). From 129 baud or something to a 36.6kb Supra modem. That's thirty
times faster (?). I am not sure of (?)s, but the change was a quantum leap.
But I have managed the process, more or less intuitively. Old things still
survive in the new cyber space, believe me. So, this posting is a means to
an end for me to gain experience in the Internet news groups. Experiment to
kill two birds with one stone, so to speak. No one would know what mistakes
I have made. Sending articles still being proofed, all too prematurely by
just a flick of my little finger, or sending messages without subject line
filled to the wrong machine, etc. Things happen too quickly. It's too late
to correct the stupid things I did, but It just happened anyway. I hope this
one is OK. and short, hopefully to the point, to boot.
Hiro Matsusaki
FAX 1.403.963.7954 Phone 1.403.963.3809
JULIE ATWOOD on wed 12 feb 97
I don't appreciate anyone sticking a number of years on the title of
"potter"...I know a few "potters" who pride themselves on how long
they've thrown...but when I pick their pots up, I nearly collapse from
the weight..their forms are bad, and their feet are worse. Time is no
judge of a potter. When you are proud of your work, and would not be
ashamed to put a piece in a show and let everyone know YOU did
it...you're enough of a potter.
Julie
On Sat, 8 Feb 1997, Louis A. Ballard wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>
> i was told it takes seven years of making pots to make a potter...
> anyone agree or disagree?...as for the artist part that's up to
> you,,,looeeballard in his ninth year.
>
Debby Grant on thu 13 feb 97
Julie, your last sentance says it all - "when you are proud of your
work,etc."
I also think you can consider yourself a potter when you have enough
confidence
not to ask that question.
Debby Grant
Lili Krakowski on fri 14 feb 97
Perhaps the problem lies elsewhere? Whoever you are, YOU are YOU, no
matter if you are a trash collector, a ditch digger, a monk, a lawyer,
a housewife. The point is that when we need to identify ourselves in
relation to our work we either do it for practical reasons...i.e. at the scene o
accident the physician who is walking by says: "Let me through I'm a
doctor," or to trump someone with expertize: " Excuse me, I'm an
attorney, and the Supreme Court decision clearly said..." or becuse we
think it will do something special--like when we are trying to impress a
very attractive person at a party. it is good to gain some insight into
why one needs to identify oneself by trade. I have seen potters who
gave up potting for economic reasons really really DOWN about now
"having" to describe themselves as teachers or salesreps or whatever.
Somehow they felt it was a step down the social scale. I suspect some
of the people who have been talking about burn out may be suffering from
the same underlying trouble (can't think of a better word right now)
They really have had it with the pots. and the mud, and the hard work,
and the wet cold slurry, and the long hours and the bad pay--but somehow
can't give it up becaue they have so much identity tied up in the title
Potter. Any psychologists our there who want to talk about identity?
Lili Krakowski lkkrakow@edisto.cofc.edu
JULIE ATWOOD on fri 14 feb 97
> Very well put Vince. I see this occuring occasionally not only on the CLATART
> list but on other lists also. What I am referring to is some of the
> "experienced" participants who have been on the list for awhile taking shots
> an the newer people for asking 'beginner' questions which they say are too
> basic for the list. The purpose of the List is to share experience at all
> levels. THERE ARE NO DUMB QUESTIONS, ONLY DUMB ANSWERS.
>
> John Guerin
> Tucson,AZ
>
AMEN, I say! As for myself personally, I'm not new to art, but I've only
been doing clay for a few years now. I was previously a painter (clay is
so superior ;)), but I do remember distinctly the sheer horror of being
brand new to the craft. I was with many experienced potters, and just
PETRIFIED! I didn't know anything...All I knew was paint, and how did
that help me here? I eventually got over my terrified state, obviously,
and consider myself moderately knowedgeable and experienced, and now
people new to the craft come to ME for advice, questions answered, and
critiques. Each time a "newbie" asks me a basic question, it forces me
to reach inside and draw out the basic answer. It's something we often
take for granted! We begin to FORGET the real basics and, in fact, look
down on them...we can't forget we need these things, too. Just because I
can answer a question on advanced glaze calculations doesn't mean it's a
better question to ask. I can also tell you a great way to make a pretty
foot. :)
Julie in Seattle
Joan Lovell on sat 15 feb 97
In a message dated 97-02-14 09:07:46 EST, Lili wrote:
<< I suspect some of the people who have been talking about burnout may be
suffering from the same underlying trouble (can't think of a better word
right now)
They really have had it with the pots. and the mud, and the hard work, and
the wet cold slurry, and the long hours and the bad pay--but somehow can't
give it up becaue they have so much identity tied up in the title Potter.
Any psychologists our there who want to talk about identity? >>
Hmmm. Well, I'm no shrink, but coincidentally, I just received a xerox of a
few pages from "Art and Fear" by David Bayles. The topic was "Perfection",
but, as it happens, the xerox of the last page also included part of the
first paragraph of the next sub-chapter, titled "Annihilation".
I quote: "For most serious artists, hitting a dry spell in their artmaking
would be a serious blow; for a few it would amount to annihilation. Some
artists identify so closely with their own work that were they to cease
producing, they fear they would become nothing - that they would cease
existing......."
Th-th-th-th-that's all Folks! I don't know if it has a happy ending, but
based on the Perfection sub-chapter, I'd recommend this book to anyone
whether they be underfired...overfired...or anywhere in between.
Just a taste of the Perfection part -- It opens with a ceramics teacher
announcing on the first day of class that the students will be divided into
two groups. All on the left side of the room will be graded solely on the
"quantity" of the work they produce. All on the right, solely on the
"quality" of their work. They only have to produce one pot...but it should be
as perfect as possible. Well, at grading time, lo and behold, those in the
"quantity" group also happen to produce the best quality work. "It seems that
while the "quantity" group was busily churning out piles of work and learning
from their mistakes, the "quality" group had sat theorizing about perfection,
and had little more to show for their efforts than grandiose theories and a
pile of dead clay."
And he goes on to talk about how a perfectionistic attitude can be paralyzing
and cause you to retreat into doing only what you know you can do and no
longer take risks, etc.
I quote: "Believing that artwork should be perfect, you gradually become
convinced that you cannot make such work. (You are correct.) Sooner or later,
since you cannot do what you you are trying to do, you quit. And in one of
those perverse ironies of life, only the pattern itself achieves perfection -
a perfect death spiral: you misdirect your work; you stall; you quit."
It's all quite brief -- but good food.
Yours,
Joan Lovell
"by way of Catherine Vojtas on mon 3 nov 97
I am just venturing into the world of clay. I would appreciate any
direction on start up proceedures, potters wheel, kiln, clay, etc. Also,
what publications would be most valuable to beginers.
Thank you for your time.
Laura
Eric Alan Hansen on fri 7 nov 97
The first 2 items I purchased for my little studio: a Thomas Stuart kickwheel an
an 18" electric kiln. That kiln model was the most popular one with the student
where I got my BFA. A good book on throwing is by Elsbeth Woody and a good one
glazes is by Charles McGee. Now I need to get a scales. I keep as much notes a
I can stand to keep - and a computer and modem help too. - Eric Hansen, Lawrence
Kansas, where the weather is cool and slightly humid, and the native clay comes
maroons and almost white greys :)
Get your free and private web-based e-mail from our new partner at http://www.ma
Bill Merrill on sat 5 sep 09
The donations are great for a young eager potter. I think Clayart is =3D
setting a precident that potentially could cause issues in the future. =3D
Since this has been so well received, perhaps Clayart could set up a =3D
scholarship or foundation for such things in the future.
=3D20
I think a new young potter would benefit from several books, both =3D
technical and artistic. There are just so many good books out there =3D
now. I don't think all the books we could donate have to be new. There =
=3D
are older classics on Amazon etc.
=3D20
I can help with that. One of the books that could help is a Rhodes =3D
book, a Carlton Ball book, a Val Cushing handbook which covers various =3D
temperatures, plaster, clay tests etc. and some good book on form.
What a gift from all of Clayart, but lets set up a foundation for such =3D
issues.
=3D20
Snail, I'll drop you a note on your email.
=3D20
Bill
=3D20
| |
|
