Dave Eitel on fri 31 may 96
I've lost some addresses, and Nils Lou's is one of them. I'd like to ask
him, or anyone else on the list who knows, what their experience has been
using the oxygen probe advertised by Axner and testified to by Nils in the
current Ceramics Monthly.
I'd like to know how difficult they are to use and whether there is
information with them that tells what readings correspond to oxidation,
reduction and neutral atmospheres. Also, is it necessary to have a
pyrometer to use one?
Later...Dave
Dave Eitel
Cedar Creek Pottery
Cedarburg, WI
daveitel@execpc.com
http://www.digivis.com/CedarCreek/home.html
Cobalt1994@aol.com on fri 31 may 96
Dave would like to knowx
nlou@calvin.linfield.edu is Nils email. He brought the oxyprobe to this
country and services them. I have one and it's great. Very easy to use. It
has number scales for atmosphere and temperature based on it's own readings
from it's sensor. There are charts in the instructions to tell you what the
temp is in C. and F. based on the scale.
The atmosphere reading is something you get the hang of by using it in your
kiln. I know that if I stay with the .03 to .04 range I will get the neutral
firing I like. It's very accurate. I can move my damper 1/4 inch and see the
change in the reading on the probe. They are expensive but I think you would
save money in firings by avoiding excess are in the beginning of the firing
as well as over reduction later on. I bet you can reduce fine without ever
seeing the visual cues most potters use. JMHO
Jennifer in Vermont
Jonathan Kaplan on fri 31 may 96
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I've lost some addresses, and Nils Lou's is one of them. I'd like to ask
>him, or anyone else on the list who knows, what their experience has been
>using the oxygen probe advertised by Axner and testified to by Nils in the
>current Ceramics Monthly.
>
>I'd like to know how difficult they are to use and whether there is
>information with them that tells what readings correspond to oxidation,
>reduction and neutral atmospheres. Also, is it necessary to have a
>pyrometer to use one?
>
>
>Later...Dave
>
>
>Dave Eitel
>Cedar Creek Pottery
>Cedarburg, WI
>daveitel@execpc.com
>http://www.digivis.com/CedarCreek/home.html
I have a probe, purchsed from Nils in the early 1980's. Just reinstalled it
in my new gas car kiln. Works perfectly after years in storage.
Easy to use, very precise and sensitive, and yes, mine came with full
documentation. I have the info from Axner's new probe. Built like a Mack
Truck or a tank or a Volvo, well designed, same principle. Axner's meter is
very well built (its a simple multimeter) with rubber armoring.
These devices have a built in pyrometer. They give readings that correspond
to temperature, they don't indicate degrees. The charts are very complete.
The atmosphere readings are very very precise, and I would not fired a gas
kiln without one of these. In a word, buy one.
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan
http://www.craftweb.com/org/jkaplan/cdg.shtml
(aka "Scooter)
jonathan@csn.net
Ceramic Design Group Ltd./Production Services Voice:
970-879-9139 POB 775112
FAXmodem: same
Steamboat Springs, Colorado 80477, USA CALL before faxing
"No matter where you go, there you are!"
Brian Voth on fri 31 may 96
I would like to add a question to Dave's original post and that is how are
these oxyprobes, labled as Axner probes, different from the ones produced by
the Australian company, AIC?
As far as an oxyprobe in general, it is very easy to use and comes with
documentation that is reasonably clear. I wouldn't be without one. I use
to fire by cone, color, site and sound. With enough other things to worry
about, it is nice to know for sure what my firing is doing.
My only criticism of the probe is that it is fragile but with reasonable
care, they will last.
Brian Voth
newton, ks
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I've lost some addresses, and Nils Lou's is one of them. I'd like to ask
>him, or anyone else on the list who knows, what their experience has been
>using the oxygen probe advertised by Axner and testified to by Nils in the
>current Ceramics Monthly.
>
>I'd like to know how difficult they are to use and whether there is
>information with them that tells what readings correspond to oxidation,
>reduction and neutral atmospheres. Also, is it necessary to have a
>pyrometer to use one?
>
>
>Later...Dave
>
>
>Dave Eitel
>Cedar Creek Pottery
>Cedarburg, WI
>daveitel@execpc.com
>http://www.digivis.com/CedarCreek/home.html
>
>
Bob McQuarrie on sun 5 may 02
I am considering buying an oxygen probe to assist in firing a wood-fired
kiln. The aim is
to achieve more uniform firing conditions, particularly reduction, from one
firing to
another.
Before spending a lot of money on this instrument I need to be sure it will
do this in a
wood-fired kiln.
Has anyone any experience using an oxygen probe in a wood-fired kiln?
Is the possibility of ash buildup on the probe likely to affect its
performance?
Will the intermittent stoking of the kiln reduce the effectiveness of the
probe?
Bob McQuarrie
don hunt on sun 5 may 02
No answers, Bob, but more questions. Is there a major difference between
the Austrailian
probe and the Axner one? Where is the Aussie available?
Don Hunt
Bob McQuarrie wrote:
> I am considering buying an oxygen probe to assist in firing a wood-fired
kiln. The aim is
> to achieve more uniform firing conditions, particularly reduction, from
one firing to
> another.
>
> Before spending a lot of money on this instrument I need to be sure it
will do this in a
> wood-fired kiln.
>
> Has anyone any experience using an oxygen probe in a wood-fired kiln?
>
> Is the possibility of ash buildup on the probe likely to affect its
performance?
>
> Will the intermittent stoking of the kiln reduce the effectiveness of the
probe?
>
> Bob McQuarrie
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Steve Dalton on sun 5 may 02
on 5/5/02 12:21 AM, Bob McQuarrie at b_mcquarrie@MINIDATA.CO.NZ wrote:
> Is the possibility of ash buildup on the probe likely to affect its
> performance?
Yes, the build up of molten ash will ruin the probe and they're not cheap,
either. There are others ways to gauge the amount of reduction or when to
stoke with a wood kiln. I've read and actually had one designed into my
wood kiln. A little vent hole in the upper row of the door. I could watch
the flame coming from the vent and gauge the amount of reduction I had in
there and when to stoke.
I've also read where some will bascially have the same vent/spy hole in
their chimney. Having 2 holes, how far apart would depend on the heighth of
the chimney, stoke until the flame is passed the top hole and then wait
until the flame gets down to the lower hole before you stoke again.
I'm sure I got off topic with what you were wanting to know. The main thing
though, salt and wood ash will ruin the probe.
--
Steve Dalton
Clear Creek Pottery
Snohomish, Wa
sdpotter@gte.net
Bob McQuarrie on mon 6 may 02
Don
They appear to be the same, check http://www.cof.com.au/dlprobe.htm
Bob
On 5 May 2002 at 12:46, don hunt wrote:
> No answers, Bob, but more questions. Is there a major difference between
the Austrailian
> probe and the Axner one? Where is the Aussie available?
>
> Don Hunt
Roger Graham on tue 7 may 02
This one is for Don Hunt who was asking re Australian oxygen probe. Haven't
seen any postings in reply. I bought our probe from Australian Oxytrol
Systems. They have a website with lots of information, including pictures,
instructions, addresses of suppliers (US included)
http://www.cof.com.au/aos.htm
Even if you're not in the market to buy one, it's a good site just for the
information given.
Roger Graham http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rogergraham
John Rodgers on sat 16 aug 08
Gene,
If you are innovative, a tinkerer, understand [physics, computers and
programming. you might want to fool around with an automotive Oxygen
sensor mounted in the exhaust stream from the kiln, and a digital
voltmeter. With a little work, you can get workable, useful data to
manage your kiln environment during firings. It's a lot cheaper that the
Oxyprobe, but admittedly, a bit more clunky and funky. But it can be done.,
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Gene Arnold wrote:
> I was almost ready to purchase an oxygen probe, then I checked the price. Ouch!!! Those things are expensive!!! I checked Bailey and Axner one was over a thousand bucks and the other so close you could call it a thousand.
>
> Does anyone have one they would like to sell at a good price??? Or a source that has a price that won't make one reach for the high blood pressure medicine???
>
> Gene
> mudduck@mudduckpottery.net
> www.mudduckpottery.net
>
>
>
L TURNER on sat 16 aug 08
Gene,
>>Or a source that has a price that won't make one reach for the high blood
pressure medicine? <<
There was an article in one of the magazines, Ceramics Monthly or ClayTimes,
on constructing a serviceable probe from a millivolt meter and a sensor
taken from a modern car combustion control. Both use the same technology.
Regards,
L. Turner
The Woodlands, TX
Michael Wendt on sat 16 aug 08
Gene,
For perspective, I paid $450 for the oxyprobe 20 years
ago so $1000 now is much cheaper.
Remember to check the consumer price index.
Example:
in 1972 gas cost $0.65/ gallon
a new Jag V-12 was $8000
We bought a house for $8200
today gas is $3.67/gallon
a Jag v-12 is $80 000
that house sold for $95,000
As the federal government prints money at
a furious rate to pay its bills and offer us
economic stimulus packages, buying an oxyprobe for a
mere $1000 is chump change and will return
benefits for years to come if you use it.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave.
Lewiston, Id 83501
U.S.A.
208-746-3724
wendtpot@lewiston.com
http://www.wendtpottery.com
http://UniquePorcelainDesigns.com
Gene Arnold on sat 16 aug 08
I was almost ready to purchase an oxygen probe, then I checked the =
price. Ouch!!! Those things are expensive!!! I checked Bailey and Axner =
one was over a thousand bucks and the other so close you could call it a =
thousand.
Does anyone have one they would like to sell at a good price??? Or a =
source that has a price that won't make one reach for the high blood =
pressure medicine???
Gene=20
mudduck@mudduckpottery.net
www.mudduckpottery.net
James and Sherron Bowen on sun 17 aug 08
I think there are plans out there for making your own from an auto oxygen
sensor.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Arnold"
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 6:01 PM
Subject: oxygen probe
I was almost ready to purchase an oxygen probe, then I checked the price.
Ouch!!! Those things are expensive!!! I checked Bailey and Axner one was
over a thousand bucks and the other so close you could call it a thousand.
Does anyone have one they would like to sell at a good price??? Or a source
that has a price that won't make one reach for the high blood pressure
medicine???
Gene
mudduck@mudduckpottery.net
www.mudduckpottery.net
jean szostek on sun 17 aug 08
hi gene,
im from belgium and i have sinds a few weeks a oxyprobe
i had too buy it in switzerland , total cost with delivery : 1280?
is that mutch, but i am sure in a year i have a great deal of my gas that i
earnt back
so think twice , that is a good advice greatings jean
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Arnold"
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:01 AM
Subject: oxygen probe
I was almost ready to purchase an oxygen probe, then I checked the price.
Ouch!!! Those things are expensive!!! I checked Bailey and Axner one was
over a thousand bucks and the other so close you could call it a thousand.
Does anyone have one they would like to sell at a good price??? Or a source
that has a price that won't make one reach for the high blood pressure
medicine???
Gene
mudduck@mudduckpottery.net
www.mudduckpottery.net
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.4/1615 - Release Date: 16/08/2008
7:11
jonathan byler on sun 17 aug 08
I am all of the above (innovative, tinkerer, etc), and even with a
new car oxygen sensor, I got very erratic readings. Worked decently
once, and then was down hill from there, and just after a few
firings, totally useless. I find I do as well looking at the spyhole
and chimney flames than fooling with my cheap, homemade "oxy-probe."
If I wanted to get any truly meaningful readings that told me more
than the length and color of the spyhole flames do, I would go ahead
and buy a real oxy-probe. I think the reason they went from about
$700 to $1000 dollars recently is the price of platinum, along with
other precious metals and commodities, went through the roof over the
last year or so. As things settle out, and people aren't dumping
money blindly into the commodities markets, the prices on these
things may come down a bit. but who knows?
jon byler
3-D Building Coordinator
Art Department
Auburn University, AL 36849
On Aug 16, 2008, at 10:52 PM, John Rodgers wrote:
> Gene,
>
> If you are innovative, a tinkerer, understand [physics, computers and
> programming. you might want to fool around with an automotive Oxygen
> sensor mounted in the exhaust stream from the kiln, and a digital
> voltmeter. With a little work, you can get workable, useful data to
> manage your kiln environment during firings. It's a lot cheaper
> that the
> Oxyprobe, but admittedly, a bit more clunky and funky. But it can
> be done.,
>
> Regards,
>
> John Rodgers
> Chelsea, AL
> Gene Arnold wrote:
>> I was almost ready to purchase an oxygen probe, then I checked the
>> price. Ouch!!! Those things are expensive!!! I checked Bailey and
>> Axner one was over a thousand bucks and the other so close you
>> could call it a thousand.
>>
>> Does anyone have one they would like to sell at a good price??? Or
>> a source that has a price that won't make one reach for the high
>> blood pressure medicine???
>>
>> Gene
>> mudduck@mudduckpottery.net
>> www.mudduckpottery.net
>>
>>
>>
Ivor and Olive Lewis on mon 18 aug 08
The value of the oxygen probe is that it indicates the absence or
presence of Oxygen. So the lower the reading the greater the degree of
potential reduction.
But this is based on an assumption that the atmosphere is rich in
Carbon monoxide.
If it is Carbon Dioxide that is being measured, is anything known
about the reducing potential of the kiln atmosphere ? A strong reading
for Carbon dioxide just tell us that the fuel has been used.
Possibly more important in optimising reduction is knowledge about the
ratios of H2O/H2 ; CO2/CO as well as the concentration of O2 and that
Standard Free Energies of the reduction reactions of the oxides
concerned differ from each other at any particular temperature. Put
simply, the optimum condition for reducing Iron oxide will be
different from that needed for reducing Copper(1)oxide.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Lee Love on mon 18 aug 08
A C02 probe is much less expensive. Someone here posted information
about their's here. It is what Pete Pinnell uses when he travels.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Nils Lou on sun 10 jul 11
Lee wrote:
"If you use the probe a couple times, you don't need to keep
using it. You just remember the settings and use them next time."
Nope.
In a perfect world with static weather and a constant barometer perhaps, bu=
=3D
t using the same settings with a low pressure weather system (stormy) as wh=
=3D
en there is a high pressure system will produce
significantly different results.
That's why the probe helps in each firing. It senses the oxygen/fuel ratio =
=3D
pretty precisely. As mentioned
in another post, simply stuffing the damper slot with kaowool will affect t=
=3D
he atmosphere from oxidation to reduction.
--nils
ivor and olive lewis on mon 11 jul 11
Dear Nils Lou,
I agree, we should pay attention to atmospheric pressure.
In addition, having some idea of atmospheric moisture is important. The
reaction between water and free carbon above 1000 deg C helps in two ways.
It introduces a second reducing agent, Hydrogen and augments the calorific
value of energy released.
Barometers and wet and a Hygrometer such as a wet and dry bulb thermometers
should be part of a potters tool kit.
I suppose the optimal condition would be a high barometer and high humidity
at sea level !
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia
Lee on mon 11 jul 11
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 1:19 AM, ivor and olive lewis
wrote:
> It introduces a second reducing agent, Hydrogen and augments the >calorif=
=3D
ic value of energy released.
Water/Hydrogen reduction is an ecological way to reduce and even out a kiln=
=3D
.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
douglas fur on wed 13 jul 11
*It introduces a second reducing agent, Hydrogen and augments the
>calorific value of energy released.
Water/Hydrogen reduction is an ecological way to reduce and even out a kiln=
*
.
Additionally {Back to Mel's somewhat luditical comment about carbon carbon
monoxide etc.} The Hydrogen in fuels is the more aggressive actor in
reduction firing. The shorter the molecule the higher the hydrogen hence
the frequently heard "Its harder to get reduction with propane compared to
natural gas." comment.
DRB
Seola Creek
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