Alan Walker on tue 12 nov 96
My apologies for asking this again, but I had a series of problems with my
mail server and then with my e-mail software.
I would like advice on oxygen probes for monitoring oxidation/reduction.
What is a good probe to get? How reliable are they? What do they cost?
Regards
Alan Walker
jonathan kaplan on mon 11 jul 11
I purchased my first and only AIC oxygen probe from Nils back in the =3D
late 1970's. Fired my soft-brick kiln in Pennsylvania well over 450 =3D
times before I carefully packed it up and moved to Colorado in1988.
In 1994 I purchased a Cooperworks kiln and reinstalled the oxygen probe =3D
and fired that kiln 576 times with until 2006, when I moved everything =3D
down to Denver, along with again, my carefully packed oxygen probe.
On June 11 2011 I had my first firing with the same Coopeworks kiln here =
=3D
in Denver. It was picture perfect, and according to the readings on my =3D
Roots brand rotary dial gas meter, the kiln used $13.50 of natural gas. =3D
My oxygen probe provided the same dead on readings as it has always done =
=3D
for 31 years or so.
So just to point out....
1. If you take care of an oxygen probe, it will last a long long time. =3D
Mine is 31 years old and has over 1000 firings on it.
2. They do not require any major maintenance, just perhaps re-soldering =3D
the exposed wire from the tip to the head maybe once in its lifetime.
3. They are not hard to keep working for many years. In fact, once =3D
installed, just let it do its job.
4. They provide for excellent repeatable results and can help decrease =3D
the amount of fuel that is consumed
I would not be so hasty as to dismiss this hard working and essential =3D
device from certainly my repertoire of tools.
Finally, a short rant......
If potters would only do themselves a great service and learn from our =3D
industrial counterparts about the essentials of proper combustion. =3D
Industrial burners and combustion systems are designed to maximize every =
=3D
BTU of of fuel, provide excess air and efficient stoichiometric =3D
combustion, as well as reduction when needed. Yes the upfront costs are =3D
greater than simple pipe burners and squirrel cage blowers, but the =3D
results over time far outweigh, IMHO, the costs.=3D20
Respectfully,
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan
curator
Plinth Gallery
3520 Brighton Blvd
Denver, CO 80216
www.plinthgallery.com
303 295-0717 =3D20
Hank Murrow on mon 11 jul 11
BRAVO! Jonathan........ Hank in Eugene who supplies them with the =3D
Doorless Fiberkiln.
On Jul 11, 2011, at 6:07 AM, jonathan kaplan wrote:
> I purchased my first and only AIC oxygen probe from Nils back in the =3D
late 1970's. Fired my soft-brick kiln in Pennsylvania well over 450 =3D
times before I carefully packed it up and moved to Colorado in1988.
>=3D20
> In 1994 I purchased a Cooperworks kiln and reinstalled the oxygen =3D
probe and fired that kiln 576 times with until 2006, when I moved =3D
everything down to Denver, along with again, my carefully packed oxygen =3D
probe.
>=3D20
> On June 11 2011 I had my first firing with the same Coopeworks kiln =3D
here in Denver. It was picture perfect, and according to the readings on =
=3D
my Roots brand rotary dial gas meter, the kiln used $13.50 of natural =3D
gas. My oxygen probe provided the same dead on readings as it has always =
=3D
done for 31 years or so.
>=3D20
> So just to point out....
>=3D20
> 1. If you take care of an oxygen probe, it will last a long long time. =
=3D
Mine is 31 years old and has over 1000 firings on it.
> 2. They do not require any major maintenance, just perhaps =3D
re-soldering the exposed wire from the tip to the head maybe once in its =
=3D
lifetime.
> 3. They are not hard to keep working for many years. In fact, once =3D
installed, just let it do its job.
> 4. They provide for excellent repeatable results and can help decrease =
=3D
the amount of fuel that is consumed
>=3D20
> I would not be so hasty as to dismiss this hard working and essential =3D
device from certainly my repertoire of tools.
>=3D20
> Finally, a short rant......
>=3D20
> If potters would only do themselves a great service and learn from our =
=3D
industrial counterparts about the essentials of proper combustion. =3D
Industrial burners and combustion systems are designed to maximize every =
=3D
BTU of of fuel, provide excess air and efficient stoichiometric =3D
combustion, as well as reduction when needed. Yes the upfront costs are =3D
greater than simple pipe burners and squirrel cage blowers, but the =3D
results over time far outweigh, IMHO, the costs.=3D20
>=3D20
> Respectfully, Jonathan
jonathan kaplan on tue 12 jul 11
Very well said indeed.
I would like to know why there is such luddite thinking amongst
potters. Many seemed destined to live in the Neolithic Age of not only
thinking but also of working.
I certainly know and embrace the many varied methodologies amongst
potters. But I sure do question some.We are indeed a resourceful
bunch, but we are also a wasteful group. I know many potters who throw
out their scrap for example, not to mention the untold minions with
inefficient, gas consuming behemoth kilns that consume far to much
fuel. I could go on and on, but suffice it to say, it never ceases to
amaze me that we have such wastefulness in a time when resources cost
so much, sales are certainly not what they use to be, and the
competition so severe for gallery space and street events.
Let's not construe this short post as an attack. It is certainly not.
We live in the 21st century and our actions and thinking need to be
responsible, to say the least.
I don't post much anymore, and hope that this post is taken in a non-
argumentative way, please.
Respectfully
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan
jonathan@plinthgallery.com
www.plinthgallery.com
Plinth Gallery
3520 Brighton Blvd
Denver CO 80216
303 295-0717
On Jul 12, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Larry Kruzan wrote:
> Well said Jonathan,
>
> I know a potter a few miles away that fires a kiln built from
> salvaged hard
> bricks, ancient salvaged ventury burners (5 times bigger than
> needed), no
> digital pyrometer (they cost too much) and certainly no oxy probe.
> EVERY
> time she fires she changes the un-needed bag walls and complains
> continuously about how much propane she is using. I agree with her
> about
> that - 175 to 250 GALLONS to fire a 50cf kiln to cone 10!!!!!
> STUPID!!!!!
>
> She came to my studio one time to see my kiln and was amazed that I
> used so
> many gages to monitor my firing. I do have more than I need to check a
> average firing, but I now KNOW exactly what the temp is in every
> area of my
> kiln as I fire it. The kiln is apart right now, but as its rebuilt
> it will a
> gas meter (to monitor fuel consumption), 2 gas pressure gages, I
> will have 6
> pyrometers on it (one in each flame channel, three in the chamber
> and one in
> the flu) and two oxy probes.
>
> This 50cf kiln fires to cone 10, maintaining reduction for reds on 30
> gallons of propane.
>
> This other potter told me that NOBODY has a kiln that efficient,
> that you
> have to waste a lot of fuel to get good reduction, that a softbrick
> kiln
> will fall apart in a couple years, that good pots only come out of a
> hard
> brick kiln, yata, yata, yata. I guess I will just go along firing my
> wastefully expensive kiln in a substandard way and chalk up my
> copper reds
> to "beginners luck". She has been making pottery for about 5 years
> longer
> than I have so she knows so much more. Sure.
>
> We potters need to be working as efficiently as possible these days
> - you
> know why. Instrumentation does cost money, but you can waste the
> cost of a
> pyrometer or oxyprobe in one firing and not have a clue what
> happened to
> you. You only need one good pyrometer and 3 or 4 thermocouples
> scattered
> around your kiln to see what is going on. Move the meter from one
> probe to
> the next until you learn what is going on. RECORD your results!! In
> a couple
> firings you will be shocked to see what you now KNOW about your kiln
> at
> certain times.
>
> DON'T do things a certain way just because "that's the way it was
> done at
> school" - you do not have the fuel budget of a university.
>
> If you don't know you are doing things a certain way - stop - think
> about it
> - REASON to a solution. If you don't know why you are doing
> something -
> there may be a better way, but you'll never know until you
> understand why
> you are doing it THAT way.
>
> Soapbox stored.
> Larry Kruzan
> Lost Creek Pottery
> An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
> jonathan kaplan
> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 8:08 AM
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Oxygen Probes
> Finally, a short rant......
>
> If potters would only do themselves a great service and learn from our
> industrial counterparts about the essentials of proper combustion.
> Industrial burners and combustion systems are designed to maximize
> every BTU
> of of fuel, provide excess air and efficient stoichiometric
> combustion, as
> well as reduction when needed. Yes the upfront costs are greater
> than simple
> pipe burners and squirrel cage blowers, but the results over time far
> outweigh, IMHO, the costs.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
Lee on wed 13 jul 11
I shared the video of the glass guy using a hydrogen/water torch. I
hope to see the day when we are making our own hydrogen from
electrolysis, powered by wind and solar and stop using natural and
propane gas all together.
In the interim, if you are truly concerned about ecology,
and are not just using it as an excuse for more toys, grow a woodlot
for fuel in a woodkiln and take out more carbon than you put in the
air.
Next best thing is firing with waste wood that would otherwise be
burn. You burn the wood cleaner and put zero extra carbon in the
atmosphere.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
jonathan byler on wed 13 jul 11
We are rich. maybe not individually, but as a society. The poorest
amongst us in the industrialized (or post industrialized) world is
still wealthier and has more opportunities of ALL kinds than most of
the people in most of the rest of the world, a few oligarchs and rich
dictators excepted. Resources are still relatively cheap for us
compared to the rest of the world. And resources here cost less than
time and labor. so they get used more... some would say wastefully.
Hopefully from an ecological standpoint and a world wide social
justice standpoint we can do something about this... we can all have
more time, happiness, prosperity if we would all pay attention to
using/wasting a little bit less.
On Jul 12, 2011, at 2:52 PM, jonathan kaplan wrote:
> I could go on and on, but suffice it to say, it never ceases to
> amaze me that we have such wastefulness in a time when resources cost
> so much, sales are certainly not what they use to be, and the
> competition so severe for gallery space and street events.
>
>
> Respectfully
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> Jonathan Kaplan
> jonathan@plinthgallery.com
> www.plinthgallery.com
>
> Plinth Gallery
> 3520 Brighton Blvd
> Denver CO 80216
>
> 303 295-0717
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 12, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Larry Kruzan wrote:
>
>> Well said Jonathan,
>>
>> I know a potter a few miles away that fires a kiln built from
>> salvaged hard
>> bricks, ancient salvaged ventury burners (5 times bigger than
>> needed), no
>> digital pyrometer (they cost too much) and certainly no oxy probe.
>> EVERY
>> time she fires she changes the un-needed bag walls and complains
>> continuously about how much propane she is using. I agree with her
>> about
>> that - 175 to 250 GALLONS to fire a 50cf kiln to cone 10!!!!!
>> STUPID!!!!!
>>
>> She came to my studio one time to see my kiln and was amazed that I
>> used so
>> many gages to monitor my firing. I do have more than I need to
>> check a
>> average firing, but I now KNOW exactly what the temp is in every
>> area of my
>> kiln as I fire it. The kiln is apart right now, but as its rebuilt
>> it will a
>> gas meter (to monitor fuel consumption), 2 gas pressure gages, I
>> will have 6
>> pyrometers on it (one in each flame channel, three in the chamber
>> and one in
>> the flu) and two oxy probes.
>>
>> This 50cf kiln fires to cone 10, maintaining reduction for reds on 30
>> gallons of propane.
>>
>> This other potter told me that NOBODY has a kiln that efficient,
>> that you
>> have to waste a lot of fuel to get good reduction, that a softbrick
>> kiln
>> will fall apart in a couple years, that good pots only come out of a
>> hard
>> brick kiln, yata, yata, yata. I guess I will just go along firing my
>> wastefully expensive kiln in a substandard way and chalk up my
>> copper reds
>> to "beginners luck". She has been making pottery for about 5 years
>> longer
>> than I have so she knows so much more. Sure.
>>
>> We potters need to be working as efficiently as possible these days
>> - you
>> know why. Instrumentation does cost money, but you can waste the
>> cost of a
>> pyrometer or oxyprobe in one firing and not have a clue what
>> happened to
>> you. You only need one good pyrometer and 3 or 4 thermocouples
>> scattered
>> around your kiln to see what is going on. Move the meter from one
>> probe to
>> the next until you learn what is going on. RECORD your results!! In
>> a couple
>> firings you will be shocked to see what you now KNOW about your kiln
>> at
>> certain times.
>>
>> DON'T do things a certain way just because "that's the way it was
>> done at
>> school" - you do not have the fuel budget of a university.
>>
>> If you don't know you are doing things a certain way - stop - think
>> about it
>> - REASON to a solution. If you don't know why you are doing
>> something -
>> there may be a better way, but you'll never know until you
>> understand why
>> you are doing it THAT way.
>>
>> Soapbox stored.
>> Larry Kruzan
>> Lost Creek Pottery
>> An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
>> jonathan kaplan
>> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 8:08 AM
>> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>> Subject: Oxygen Probes
>> Finally, a short rant......
>>
>> If potters would only do themselves a great service and learn from
>> our
>> industrial counterparts about the essentials of proper combustion.
>> Industrial burners and combustion systems are designed to maximize
>> every BTU
>> of of fuel, provide excess air and efficient stoichiometric
>> combustion, as
>> well as reduction when needed. Yes the upfront costs are greater
>> than simple
>> pipe burners and squirrel cage blowers, but the results over time far
>> outweigh, IMHO, the costs.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
Kathy Forer on wed 13 jul 11
On Jul 12, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Larry Kruzan wrote:
>> You only need one good pyrometer and 3 or 4 thermocouples
>> scattered
>> around your kiln to see what is going on. Move the meter from one
>> probe to
>> the next until you learn what is going on.
My one thermocouple has wrap wire-around style screws for the pyrometer lea=
d=3D
s. It's a somewhat tenuous connection.=3D20
What kind of connectors do you recommend for moving a pyrometer from one th=
e=3D
rmocouple to another? Would banana or u-shaped clips be okay or is there so=
m=3D
ething better? Is wrapped or crimped in clip okay or should wire be soldere=
d=3D
to connector?
Kathy Forer
Claypit Creek
Larry Kruzan on wed 13 jul 11
Hi Kathy,
That would make things a little more difficult, but not impossible. Here
goes'
I would pick up a few "banana plugs" and two banana jacks from "Radio
Shack". Since the polarity of the wires are important, I would buy a few re=
d
and a few black. Hopefully your meter is marked "positive" (+) and
"Negative" (-), use the red for positive and the black for negative
connections.
Hook a short piece of wire to the meter and a jack, then connect plugs to
the wires coming from the thermocouple. Repeat for each thermocouple.
If you find that one thermocouple does not read right, try reversing the (+=
)
& (-) connection.
Be sure to use thermocouple wire for your leads - regular wire will cause
you to have erroneous readings.
Please drop us a line and let everyone know how your project worked out.
Best Wishes.
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Kathy Forer
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 12:08 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Oxygen Probes
On Jul 12, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Larry Kruzan wrote:
>> You only need one good pyrometer and 3 or 4 thermocouples
>> scattered
>> around your kiln to see what is going on. Move the meter from one
>> probe to
>> the next until you learn what is going on.
My one thermocouple has wrap wire-around style screws for the pyrometer
leads. It's a somewhat tenuous connection.
What kind of connectors do you recommend for moving a pyrometer from one
thermocouple to another? Would banana or u-shaped clips be okay or is there
something better? Is wrapped or crimped in clip okay or should wire be
soldered to connector?
Kathy Forer
Claypit Creek
Larry Kruzan on wed 13 jul 11
Well said Jonathan,
I know a potter a few miles away that fires a kiln built from salvaged hard
bricks, ancient salvaged ventury burners (5 times bigger than needed), no
digital pyrometer (they cost too much) and certainly no oxy probe. EVERY
time she fires she changes the un-needed bag walls and complains
continuously about how much propane she is using. I agree with her about
that - 175 to 250 GALLONS to fire a 50cf kiln to cone 10!!!!! STUPID!!!!!
She came to my studio one time to see my kiln and was amazed that I used so
many gages to monitor my firing. I do have more than I need to check a
average firing, but I now KNOW exactly what the temp is in every area of my
kiln as I fire it. The kiln is apart right now, but as its rebuilt it will =
a
gas meter (to monitor fuel consumption), 2 gas pressure gages, I will have =
6
pyrometers on it (one in each flame channel, three in the chamber and one i=
n
the flu) and two oxy probes.
This 50cf kiln fires to cone 10, maintaining reduction for reds on 30
gallons of propane.
This other potter told me that NOBODY has a kiln that efficient, that you
have to waste a lot of fuel to get good reduction, that a softbrick kiln
will fall apart in a couple years, that good pots only come out of a hard
brick kiln, yata, yata, yata. I guess I will just go along firing my
wastefully expensive kiln in a substandard way and chalk up my copper reds
to "beginners luck". She has been making pottery for about 5 years longer
than I have so she knows so much more. Sure.
We potters need to be working as efficiently as possible these days - you
know why. Instrumentation does cost money, but you can waste the cost of a
pyrometer or oxyprobe in one firing and not have a clue what happened to
you. You only need one good pyrometer and 3 or 4 thermocouples scattered
around your kiln to see what is going on. Move the meter from one probe to
the next until you learn what is going on. RECORD your results!! In a coupl=
e
firings you will be shocked to see what you now KNOW about your kiln at
certain times.
DON'T do things a certain way just because "that's the way it was done at
school" - you do not have the fuel budget of a university.
If you don't know you are doing things a certain way - stop - think about i=
t
- REASON to a solution. If you don't know why you are doing something -
there may be a better way, but you'll never know until you understand why
you are doing it THAT way.
Soapbox stored.
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of jonathan kapla=
n
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 8:08 AM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Oxygen Probes
Finally, a short rant......
If potters would only do themselves a great service and learn from our
industrial counterparts about the essentials of proper combustion.
Industrial burners and combustion systems are designed to maximize every BT=
U
of of fuel, provide excess air and efficient stoichiometric combustion, as
well as reduction when needed. Yes the upfront costs are greater than simpl=
e
pipe burners and squirrel cage blowers, but the results over time far
outweigh, IMHO, the costs.
Respectfully,
Jonathan
Fredrick Paget on thu 14 jul 11
If you are moving a meter around among multiple thermocouples and
are interested in accuracy you need to observe a fundamental rule for
thermojuntions: dissimilar metals in contact make a thermojunction.
The common K type thermocouple has two metals (chromel & alumel) in
welded contact at the hot end. The characteristic microvolts vs
temperature output for this junction are well known .
The proper lead wire has two conductors made of the same metal as it
connects to.
Omega makes little connectors that have these same metals in the
prongs and receptacles so the the same metals are in contact with
each other through the length of the hookup. That way you get only
one off beat junction at the cold end on the meter and it is allowed
for.
Pressure contacts under a screw are ok , you should not solder.
You use these connectors with the thermocouple lead wire made for K
type. If you introduce the wrong metal into this hookup chain you are
putting another thermocouple of unknown character into the circuit.
You are dealing with microvolts there . Copper banana plugs are an
improper connector.
Google: "omega thermocouple connectors"
.Fred Paget
>
>What kind of connectors do you recommend for moving a pyrometer from one t=
he=3D
>rmocouple to another? Would banana or u-shaped clips be okay or is there s=
om=3D
>ething better? Is wrapped or crimped in clip okay or should wire be solder=
ed=3D
> to connector?
>
>Kathy Forer
>Claypit Creek
--
Twin Dragon Studio
Mill Valley, CA, USA
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