"Rafael Molina-Rodriguez (Rafael Molina-Rodriguez)" on fri 18 apr 97
Clayarters :
I would like the opinions of the members of the list about a situation that
I've recently encountered.
Occasionally, I'm invited to give slide presentations and lectures for local
and regional art/craft associations, colleges, and universities. I give out
a 12 page packet that contains recipes for claybodies, slips, stains and
glazes ( Raku, Earthenware/TerraCotta, ^ 6 Ox, Salt/Soda and ^ 10
Reduction) that I've researched and compiled. This information is a result
of years of diligent work with ceramic materials and processes.
A couple of months ago I was invited to give a demo with four other
ceramic artists and like always I gave out my packet. Much to my
surprise one of the artists at the demo is now passing out the very same
packet! They didn't even retype, revise or edit it. They just took off the
cover page with my name on it, photocopied it and are now giving it out
as their own. IMO, that's plagiarism.
I found out about it when this unsrupulous person sent it to a friend of
mine who passed it out to his classes. When I confronted him about it he
said because I didn't formulate the glazes I had no right to complain.
In fact, I didn't formulate them but I did the research and compiled them in
an informative handout. Over the years I bought the clays, made the test
tiles, mixed up small amounts of glazes, and fired them over and over
again. I also did the layout, typing, copying, collating, and stapling of the
document. And, as I do on Clayart, I attribute each glaze to the person I
acquired it from.
I realize that as a teacher it's my responsibility to disseminate information.
But, is it too much to ask to acknowledge where one gets the
information?
Rafael
rmr3431@dcccd.edu
Karl David Knudson on sat 19 apr 97
On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Rafael Molina-Rodriguez (Rafael Molina-Rodriguez) wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I give out
> a 12 page packet that contains recipes for claybodies, slips, stains and
> glazes ( Raku, Earthenware/TerraCotta, ^ 6 Ox, Salt/Soda and ^ 10
> Reduction) that I've researched and compiled. This information is a result
> of years of diligent work with ceramic materials and processes.
Good for you, good information is always a bonus at workshops.
> A couple of months ago I was invited to give a demo with four other
> ceramic artists and like always I gave out my packet. Much to my
> surprise one of the artists at the demo is now passing out the very same
> packet! They didn't even retype, revise or edit it. They just took off the
> cover page with my name on it, photocopied it and are now giving it out
> as their own. IMO, that's plagiarism.
IF they're making money off the workshops and your packet is possibly
viewed as being beneficial to their workshop, then it could be argued
that you have a good case for copyright infringement, as $$$ is one of the
major factors. This of course would require a copyright notice on it.
> I found out about it when this unsrupulous person sent it to a friend of
> mine who passed it out to his classes. When I confronted him about it he
> said because I didn't formulate the glazes I had no right to complain.
Sounds like the guy's a jerk. MAybe the next time you do a workshop with
him, bring along a number of copies of your cover page and VERY
PUBLICALLY hand them out to the attendees. So that they know where the
work came from. say something like, "Sorry Mr. Shmoe is so cheap he
can't afford to Xerox the cover sheet to my packet that he's distributing."
> In fact, I didn't formulate them but I did the research and compiled them in
> an informative handout. Over the years I bought the clays, made the test
> tiles, mixed up small amounts of glazes, and fired them over and over
> again. I also did the layout, typing, copying, collating, and stapling of the
> document. And, as I do on Clayart, I attribute each glaze to the person I
> acquired it from.
What you might want to do is put your name and address somewhere on each
page with a copyright notice. That would make it much harder to pass off
your work as his.
Pamela Jo Stamper on sat 19 apr 97
RE: Person passing off workshop handout as their own work!!
Rafael
As a librarian (Hey, I can't make a living selling Goddesses and
face mugs! --at least not now); I can tell you that the person who ripped
off the materials you compiled was violating your rights. It doesn't
really matter that you didn't develop all the glazes personally. As an
editor of this material, you had the right to expect that it wouldn't be
passed off as the work of another. A person who would do what was done to
you has no ethics!
Pamela Jo stamps@seasurf.com
Jon Lovejoy on sun 20 apr 97
Rafael Molina-Rodriguez)) wrote:
<<----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Clayarters :
....I realize that as a teacher it's my responsibility to disseminate
information.
But, is it too much to ask to acknowledge where one gets the
information?
I'm afraid it is. It's not like some one has taken something you've
published and claimed they wrote it. Since you are a teacher, and the
recipes were not your own, I assume you compiled this info to help your
students be informed. Your fellow educator is not taking credit as a
publisher or author, he is simply passing this information on to his
students, just as you have to yours. It may not seem friendly or ethical,
but more students are benefiting from your research, so what's the harm?
Sandra Dwiggins on sun 20 apr 97
If I understand the copyright laws, if you write a document and distribute
it with you as the author, and have a copyright c with your name on it,
the document is under your copyright. This means that another person
cannot publish or distribute the document as theirs. However, if they
made up the glaze and used it, then distributed the formula, that would
not be copyright protected since the idea in giving the formula was to
allow others to use it. There are two things at issue here. One is the
document as a whole---your work. The other is the glaze recipes which
are not. If your document is clearly marked with a copyright c---and the
person has literally used the document---then yes, the person is stealing
your document. But, if they've just reprinted the glaze recipes, then they
are not really plagiarizing your work.
Any lawyers out there?
Sandy
sandra@icicsun.nci.nih.gov
Elca Branman on sun 20 apr 97
You have an absolute right to be angry, but I don't know what the anger
will do for you.
Other people's unscrupulous behaviour is really(after the first burst of
rage) the responsibility of their conscience...
Lots of injustice around but let me offer you my favorite proverb.
"While I held the grudge, he was out dancing."
That bit of Yiddish wisdom has been a big help to me...Elca Branman
Branman Potters elcab1@juno.com
in Stone Ridge ,N.Y.
in the Hudson Valley
Richard Gralnik on sun 20 apr 97
At 11:19 AM 4/18/97 EDT, you wrote:
>I realize that as a teacher it's my responsibility to disseminate
information.
>But, is it too much to ask to acknowledge where one gets the
>information?
>
>Rafael
Rafael,
A good source of wisdom in how to treat others is The Sayings of the Fathers.
Chapter 6, Number 6 says
"Torah (the Five Books of Moses) is greater than priesthood or royalty,
for royalty is acquired [together] with thirty distinctions, and the
priesthood with twenty four, but for one to acquire Torah he must have
the following forty eight qualities: ... saying a thing in the name of its
author. Indeed, you have learned, 'Whoever says a thing in the name of its
author brings redemption to the world, as it is stated: And Esther told
the king in the name of Mordechai'".
It's interesting that the quality of saying a thing in the name of its
author is the 48th quality listed. In Jewish tradition, it is common to
read something like "Rabbi Gamliel said in the name of Rabbi Yochanon, who
said in the name of Rabbi Tarfon..."
There is nothing wrong with giving credit where it's due.
Richard
Frank Hartlieb on sun 20 apr 97
Rafael...you are absolutely correct in assuming that credit should be
given where credit is due...as you indicate you have done in acknowledging
glaze formulas conceived by others...it is unfortunate that there are
those who seem to be most adept at taking credit for the work of others
and least adept at creating their own. I attended a seminar on copyright
some time ago and it was made very clear that almost anything can be
"appropriated" as long as it is used for educational purposes and not for
personal financial gain...and it was suggested that it is always wise to
give credit to original authors, artists etc.
frank
hart9535@uidaho.edu
Dannon Rhudy on sun 20 apr 97
Rafael,
It is unfortunate when people take your work, without so much
as a by-your-leave. And I can understand your annoyance. But
it is not plagerism. It is: for you, an outrage. For them, a
convenience.
I see pages of Val Cushing's handbook floating around in most
of the ceramics classrooms I've been in; I've seen things
lifted-from, excerpted-from, excised from articles from Ceramics
Monthly, and Claytimes, and other Ceramics magazines. No credit
given. Seen glaze formulas from McWhinnie's articles, Wild's,
Aerni's, - the list is endless. Credit seldom or never given.
You could insert your name in the typed pages every little bit,
find clever ways of making sure that you get credit when due.
At least that way, when they steal your stuff, they'd have to
re-type it or say in passing that it is yours. Or those reading
it would notice it - maybe.
Probably, for your peace of mind, it would be best to just
re-frame how you look at it: the ceramics student's of the world
are gaining from your research and your effort. Your influence
will spread much faster than it would merely from those workshops
and so on that you are able to make time for in your schedule.
I have heard Cushing say that when he walks into a workshop, sees
his research and glazes pinned to the walls, and people don't
even know that the work is his, he just - smiles. It does not
make him feel cheated. It makes him feel good, that his work is
valued, passed from student to student to teacher to student.
Everytime you do a workshop, if the attendees like what they see
and hear, they incorporate some of it, in some way, into what they
are doing. The only way to prevent people "stealing" your work,
is to never let anyone see it.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
I would like the opinions of the members of the list about a
situation that
I've recently encountered.
Occasionally, I'm invited to give slide presentations and lectures
for local
and regional art/craft associations, colleges, and universities.
I give out
a 12 page packet that contains recipes for claybodies, slips,
stains and
glazes ( Raku, Earthenware/TerraCotta, ^ 6 Ox, Salt/Soda and ^ 10
Reduction) that I've researched and compiled. This information is
a result
of years of diligent work with ceramic materials and processes.
A couple of months ago I was invited to give a demo with four
other
ceramic artists and like always I gave out my packet. Much to my
surprise one of the artists at the demo is now passing out the
very same
packet! They didn't even retype, revise or edit it. They just
took off the
cover page with my name on it, photocopied it and are now giving
it out
as their own. IMO, that's plagiarism.
I found out about it when this unsrupulous person sent it to a
friend of
mine who passed it out to his classes. When I confronted him
about it he
said because I didn't formulate the glazes I had no right to
complain.
In fact, I didn't formulate them but I did the research and
compiled them in
an informative handout. Over the years I bought the clays, made
the test
tiles, mixed up small amounts of glazes, and fired them over and
over
again. I also did the layout, typing, copying, collating, and
stapling of the
document. And, as I do on Clayart, I attribute each glaze to the
person I
acquired it from.
I realize that as a teacher it's my responsibility to disseminate
information.
But, is it too much to ask to acknowledge where one gets the
information?
Rafael
rmr3431@dcccd.edu
Mari Soto on sun 20 apr 97
>In fact, I didn't formulate them but I did the research and compiled them in
>an informative handout.
=================
I am by no means an expert in copyright law, but it is my understanding that
when you use materials in the public domain, the material itself cannot be
copyrighted, but the manner in which you present it can. Also, once you print
something, it's considered copyrighted by virtue of its being printed, even
if you did not get an official copyright notice.
HOWEVER... there used to be a law that said that if you did not include a
copyright notice with your work, the copyright was lost in its entirety. I
think that law has been relaxed a bit in these last few years, but you still
must let the people know that you consider the presentation of the work to be
your own creation for the copyright to apply fully.
BTW, you could check CDs, books, etc., that reproduce art works in the public
domain to see how their copyright is phrased and then adapt it to your own
work.
Good luck.
mari soto
Vince Pitelka on sun 20 apr 97
>Occasionally, I'm invited to give slide presentations and lectures for local
>and regional art/craft associations, colleges, and universities. I give out
>a 12 page packet that contains recipes for claybodies, slips, stains and
>glazes ( Raku, Earthenware/TerraCotta, ^ 6 Ox, Salt/Soda and ^ 10
>Reduction) that I've researched and compiled. This information is a result
>of years of diligent work with ceramic materials and processes.
>
>A couple of months ago I was invited to give a demo with four other
>ceramic artists and like always I gave out my packet. Much to my
>surprise one of the artists at the demo is now passing out the very same
>packet! They didn't even retype, revise or edit it. They just took off the
>cover page with my name on it, photocopied it and are now giving it out
>as their own. IMO, that's plagiarism.
>
>I found out about it when this unsrupulous person sent it to a friend of
>mine who passed it out to his classes. When I confronted him about it he
>said because I didn't formulate the glazes I had no right to complain.
>
>In fact, I didn't formulate them but I did the research and compiled them in
>an informative handout. Over the years I bought the clays, made the test
>tiles, mixed up small amounts of glazes, and fired them over and over
>again. I also did the layout, typing, copying, collating, and stapling of the
>document. And, as I do on Clayart, I attribute each glaze to the person I
>acquired it from.
Raphael -
While these people (your friend and the person he got your handout from) may
not be guilty of plaigarism in the strictest sense, if they reproduced and
diseminated a handout which you assembled, then they are theives. If they
had contacted you, and asked your permission, and you had granted it (which
I assume you would have), then all would be OK. I have on occasion copied
articles from magazines to give out to a limited number of students, but
that is information which has already been distributed to the general
public. If you put considerable effort into assembling a collection of
glaze recipes to pass out to students, that collection, as you assembled it,
is for your use exclusively. If someone else takes some of those recipes
and incorporates them into their own handout, that is OK as well, all though
I would hope they would attribute the source. But it is NEVER OK for anyone
to rip-off someone else's handouts intact and use them without permission,
and far worse if they take credit for the work. In my book, anyone who
would do that is real scum.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Phone - home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801
Appalachian Center for Crafts
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Karen Gringhuis on mon 21 apr 97
Rafael - How about putting a title at top of page incl. your name
as compiler? I also put initials (& date in case of revision) at
bottom of page so at least any xeroxes incl. that info for attribution.
Karen Gringhuis
D. Kim Lindaberry on mon 21 apr 97
> Rafael Molina-Rodriguez)) wrote:
>
> <<--------------------------Original message-----------------------
>> Clayarters :
>>
>> ...I realize that as a teacher it's my responsibility to disseminate
>> information.
>> But, is it too much to ask to acknowledge where one gets the
>> information?
>>
--------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Jon Lovejoy wrote:
>
> I'm afraid it is. It's not like some one has taken something you've
> published and claimed they wrote it.
>snip<
>It may not seem friendly or ethical, but more students are benefiting from your
For your consideration:
From "Webster's New Twentieth Century Dictionary"
plagarize, ...to take ideas, writings, etc. from and pass them off as
one's own...
publish, ...to make public or known, either by words, writing, or
printing...
People sometimes claim they wrote things by the ommision of the fact
that they didn't! That's what makes it plagarisim!!! As to where is the
harm in this, well it just leads to more unethical behavior, that is
harmful enough in my book. It appears to me that Rafael wasn't so much
bothered that information he had passed out was passed onto others, but
that the second party didn't even take the time to retype the materials
himself. 11-12 pages of typing is a lot of work. What was stolen here
wasn't the information, its public knowledge, it was Rafael's time. So
what do you charge an hour Rafael? $20 an hour maybe. Why don't you send
the person a bill for your time that was stolen from you without
permission? At least then he'd know that you know what's going on.
One last thought, plagarisim is discouraged at higher educational
institutions, so much so that any student caught doing it often face
expulsion from the school. That's because it is unacceptable behavior.
There isn't any good reason it should be acceptable outside of
educational institutions either, even in the world of clay.
Kim
--
==================================
D. Kim Lindaberry
Johnson County Community College
12345 College Blvd., ATB 115
Overland Park, Kansas 66210
USA
Visit my website at: http://www.johnco.cc.ks.us/~klinda
mailto:klinda@johnco.cc.ks.us
==================================
Karl David Knudson on mon 21 apr 97
On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Jon Lovejoy wrote:
>> But, is it too much to ask to acknowledge where one gets the
>> information?
>
> I'm afraid it is. It's not like some one has taken something you've
> published and claimed they wrote it.
No the he just didn't Xerox the cover which had the author's name on it.
By passing it out he is indirectly taking credit for authoring it, unless
he specifically states that he got it from elseware, and if he does that
why not copy the cover sheet?
> Since you are a teacher, and the
> recipes were not your own, I assume you compiled this info to help your
> students be informed.
I think that the act of compiling the information in a new way and
writing it down is copyrighable. Was there _ANY_ information on this
sheet that was not strictly recipies? Summaries of glazes, tidbits of
information?
How would this be any different than someone giving workshops on say
woodfiring, distributing copies of specific pages of recipies or
information from Jack Troy's wood fire book? Is it ok because he's an
educator too? Why stop at a few pages? Hand out a copy of the book.
we all owned that book.>
> Your fellow educator is not taking credit as a
> publisher or author, he is simply passing this information on to his
> students, just as you have to yours.
By not acknowledging the author he is taking credit for it. If you go to
a workshop and the presenter hands you a packet whouldn't you assume that
he wrote it? The fact that he is most likely being paid for putting on
this workshop and that the packet might be viewed as important to his
getting the workshop, gives you a claim that _YOU_ are being financially
hurt by his distribution of your materials. $$$ lost by authors is one of
the major factors that the courts look at.
Put your name and a copyright notice on the top or botton of each page
that you write, arrange, or compile. Then when you distribute it it's
atleast a lot harder for someone to take credit for your work.
Karl in Eugene
Dannon Rhudy on mon 21 apr 97
Rafael,
It is unfortunate when people take your work, without so much
as a by-your-leave. And I can understand your annoyance. But
it is not plagerism. It is: for you, an outrage. For them, a
convenience.
I see pages of Val Cushing's handbook floating around in most
of the ceramics classrooms I've been in; I've seen things
lifted-from, excerpted-from, excised from articles from Ceramics
Monthly, and Claytimes, and other Ceramics magazines. No credit
given. Seen glaze formulas from McWhinnie's articles, Wild's,
Aerni's, - the list is endless. Credit seldom or never given.
You could insert your name in the typed pages every little bit,
find clever ways of making sure that you get credit when due.
At least that way, when they steal your stuff, they'd have to
re-type it or say in passing that it is yours. Or those reading
it would notice it - maybe.
Probably, for your peace of mind, it would be best to just
re-frame how you look at it: the ceramics student's of the world
are gaining from your research and your effort. Your influence
will spread much faster than it would merely from those workshops
and so on that you are able to make time for in your schedule.
I have heard Cushing say that when he walks into a workshop, sees
his research and glazes pinned to the walls, and people don't
even know that the work is his, he just - smiles. It does not
make him feel cheated. It makes him feel good, that his work is
valued, passed from student to student to teacher to student.
Everytime you do a workshop, if the attendees like what they see
and hear, they incorporate some of it, in some way, into what they
are doing. The only way to prevent people "stealing" your work,
is to never let anyone see it.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
I would like the opinions of the members of the list about a
situation that
I've recently encountered.
Occasionally, I'm invited to give slide presentations and lectures
for local
and regional art/craft associations, colleges, and universities.
I give out
a 12 page packet that contains recipes for claybodies, slips,
stains and
glazes ( Raku, Earthenware/TerraCotta, ^ 6 Ox, Salt/Soda and ^ 10
Reduction) that I've researched and compiled. This information is
a result
of years of diligent work with ceramic materials and processes.
A couple of months ago I was invited to give a demo with four
other
ceramic artists and like always I gave out my packet. Much to my
surprise one of the artists at the demo is now passing out the
very same
packet! They didn't even retype, revise or edit it. They just
took off the
cover page with my name on it, photocopied it and are now giving
it out
as their own. IMO, that's plagiarism.
I found out about it when this unsrupulous person sent it to a
friend of
mine who passed it out to his classes. When I confronted him
about it he
said because I didn't formulate the glazes I had no right to
complain.
In fact, I didn't formulate them but I did the research and
compiled them in
an informative handout. Over the years I bought the clays, made
the test
tiles, mixed up small amounts of glazes, and fired them over and
over
again. I also did the layout, typing, copying, collating, and
stapling of the
document. And, as I do on Clayart, I attribute each glaze to the
person I
acquired it from.
I realize that as a teacher it's my responsibility to disseminate
information.
But, is it too much to ask to acknowledge where one gets the
information?
Rafael
rmr3431@dcccd.edu
Kirk Morrison on mon 21 apr 97
On 20 Apr 97 at 10:24, Sandra Dwiggins wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> There are two things at issue here. One is the
> document as a whole---your work. The other is the glaze recipes which
> are not. If your document is clearly marked with a copyright c---and the
> person has literally used the document---then yes, the person is stealing
> your document. But, if they've just reprinted the glaze recipes, then they
> are not really plagiarizing your work.
>
I am not a lawyer but from what I was told when I developed a similar
item the copright c is not required but does lend extra protection.
The latest version of copyright laws basically gives you a copyright
unless you but it into the public domain. Check with a lawyer to be
sure I understood what I was told by the Gov.
Kirk
Kirk
Support the Jayne Hitchcock HELP Fund
Cindy on mon 21 apr 97
Dannon,
According to Rafael, this person is giving out the material "as his own".
If he is indeed presenting himself as the author of the material, then he
is committing plagiarism. If he is merely passing around the material, with
or without attribution, he is committing violation of copyright. (BTW, I'm
talking about the writing that contains the recipes. Recipes are considered
'ideas' and can't be copyrighted so far as I understand.)
The mere fact that everyone's doing it and getting away with it doesn't
mean it isn't a violation of the law. People reproduce audio and video
tapes, too. Practically speaking, though, I agree that the best thing to do
is to decide not to let it bother you. I'm no lawyer--just a writer, but
IMO, the cost of actually doing something about these (mostly) unknowing
violations is just too great to make it worth the trouble. It is good to
know these things, though. Otherwise we're in danger of violating the law
ourselves. Publishers aren't always as generous and forgiving as authors.
Cindy Strnad
> Rafael,
>
> It is unfortunate when people take your work, without so much
> as a by-your-leave. And I can understand your annoyance. But
> it is not plagerism. It is: for you, an outrage. For them, a
> convenience.
>
> I see pages of Val Cushing's handbook floating around in most
> of the ceramics classrooms I've been in; I've seen things
> lifted-from, excerpted-from, excised from articles from Ceramics
> Monthly, and Claytimes, and other Ceramics magazines. No credit
> given. Seen glaze formulas from McWhinnie's articles, Wild's,
> Aerni's, - the list is endless. Credit seldom or never given.
> Dannon Rhudy
> potter@koyote.com
>
> I give out a 12 page packet that contains recipes for claybodies, slips,
> stains and glazes ( Raku, Earthenware/TerraCotta, ^ 6 Ox, Salt/Soda and ^
10
> Reduction) that I've researched and compiled. This information is a
result
> of years of diligent work with ceramic materials and processes.
>
> A couple of months ago I was invited to give a demo with four other
ceramic artists and like always I gave out my packet. Much to my surprise
one of the artists at the demo is now passing out the very same packet!
They didn't even retype, revise or edit it. They just took off the cover
page with my name on it, photocopied it and are now giving it out as their
own. IMO, that's plagiarism.
> Rafael
> rmr3431@dcccd.edu
ZALT@aol.com on mon 21 apr 97
I feel for you. Doing all the work and not getting the credit. I can
understand the confusion of someone giving out your list of glazes when they
received them from some one else without proper source indications. I could
forgive these people a little bit but I could not forgive them completly when
they failed to ask, who the sorce was. The person that should be chastised
is the one who first received your list of glazes with the covering sheet and
then redistributing it without listing you as the source. They stoled the
credit you deserve .
Once you give out your glaze recipies you let the secret out of the bag. I
think the only thing you can do is to continue inform those who use your list
as a handout to at least indicate that it is your research that made the list
possible. Even if they distribute recipe without knowing who developed it
they should at least let the reader know that the source of the recipe is
unknown.
Perhapes in the future you should indicate at the end or beginning of each
recipe that your are the author, researcher, typist ect.
I have been saving recipes that I have collected from around and about. The
main part of my recipe collection is that I indicate from whom or where the
recipe came from. Even then, I am sure that there are some recipes that
have been developed by someone other than the listed source.
Good luck.
Terrance
Robert S. Bruch on mon 21 apr 97
Forgetting the legal issues, it seems as though
the person in question has done something sleazy
by pasting his name on someone else's efforts.
I would suggest that the individual whose sheet
was copied address the issue with the person who
is passing out his glaze compilation as his own.
Tell the person what you think about it and ask
him/her to please stop doing it. If the person
doesn't stop, then post their name to this list.
You might include their email address.
The possibility does exist that this person doesn't
realize what they have done and the effect it has
had on you. why not give them a chance via some
honest communication?
--
Bob Bruch rsb8@po.cwru.edu
Hluch - Kevin A. on tue 22 apr 97
> Forgetting the legal issues, it seems as though
> the person in question has done something sleazy
> by pasting his name on someone else's efforts.
Why are you all getting so worked up about this? I recently attended the
opening of Ah-Leon's work and his work is a direct adaptation of the
Yi-hsing ware. The ancients weren't smart enough to "copyright" their
designs. Now look at the mainland Chinese...making little cutesy tourist
Yi-hsing teapots while Ah-Leon makes out like a bandit in the
up market gallery scene.
Someday the Chinese will figure this out, then you all had
better watch out! Can you imagine a thousand Ah-Leons or a thousand
thousand Ah-Leons? They'll flood the market and then you won't have to
ponder pricing any more either. (And with a name like Ah-Leon no one will
be able to tell if they're Chinese or Jewish either....all the better!)
And you're all worried about so-called plagerized glaze formulas from a
compendium compiled from non-attributed sources.
Talk about misplaced values.
Kevin A. Hluch
102 E. 8th St.
Frederick, MD 21701
USA
e-mail: kahluch@umd5.umd.edu
On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Robert S. Bruch wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Forgetting the legal issues, it seems as though
> the person in question has done something sleazy
> by pasting his name on someone else's efforts.
>
> I would suggest that the individual whose sheet
> was copied address the issue with the person who
> is passing out his glaze compilation as his own.
> Tell the person what you think about it and ask
> him/her to please stop doing it. If the person
> doesn't stop, then post their name to this list.
> You might include their email address.
>
> The possibility does exist that this person doesn't
> realize what they have done and the effect it has
> had on you. why not give them a chance via some
> honest communication?
>
>
> --
> Bob Bruch rsb8@po.cwru.edu
>
Joan Lovell on wed 23 apr 97
The glaze info may not be yours (and you should credit YOUR sources when
possible), but the total package IS yours. Time to copyright it.
1)You can either pay the bucks to copyright it for real (info on how to do
this readily available at your public library), or you can simply redo your
inside cover with a copyright symbol and statement. You know...the one that
says it's not OK to reproduce or copy any info without express permission,
etc. You can get the wording and format from another book. (Including this
statement alone, will probably serve to prevent a recurrence of your
unfortunate experience.)
2) Take a copy of your NEW copyrighted product and mail it, by registered
mail, to yourself. Once it arrives, never open it.
3) If you ever run into anyone distributing your entire package, or nearly
all of it, without your permission, say, See you in court. They are
undercutting your income. Take your UNOPENED proof of copyright to a good
arts-experienced lawyer. Usually a state arts council can connect you with
one.
Naturally, you can't prevent someone from retyping and distributing your
glaze formulae; but your whole package? No way.
Condolences,
Joan
Robert S. Bruch on thu 24 apr 97
I am not sure about this, as I don't have
a clue about copyright infringement, but in
most civil lawsuits, one would have to show
that the plagerism was either damanging your
ability to earn income and/or enabling them
to gain income from the infringement. That seems
tenuous in this case, but perhaps R could
enlighten us on the $$$$ aspect.
If that's correct, then the ethical issues
become the focus.
--
Bob Bruch rsb8@po.cwru.edu
Eleanora Eden on fri 25 apr 97
Hi All,
In a former (brief) life as a high-school English teacher I once caught a
rather well-socially-positioned youngster with a plagerized paper...it was
so obvious it was insulting. Not only did the kid not think there was
anything wrong with what she did but the SCHOOL, apparently due to her
family's local clout, didn't seem to see what I was hollering about.
IMHO it is ALWAYS a good idea to yell your head off about plagerism.
I have handouts and before I hand one out again I will certainly
make sure my name is on every page with a copyright mark. At least make
whoever is taking it knows what s/he is doing. (It seems more common usage
to say 'whoever is taking it know what they are doing' but I can't do
that and say I taught English in the same post...)
Eleanora
Eleanora Eden 802 869-2003
Paradise Hill
Bellows Falls, VT 05101 eden@maple.sover.net
[the address fga@world.std.com is temporary. My mailbox at
eden@maple.sover.net still works -- do not change address books]
"Rafael Molina-Rodriguez (Rafael Molina-Rodriguez)" on thu 1 may 97
Kevin :
>And you're all worried about so-called plagerized glaze formulas from
>a compendium compiled from non-attributed sources.
Your term "non-attributed sources" is incorrect. Here are some of the
sources cited :
David Leach, Elmer Taylor, Jeff Oestrich, Bill Van Gilder, James Watkins,
Linda Arbuckle, Gibby Gibson, Larry Bush, Brian Kemp, Adelaide Paul,
Walter Keeler, Marie Woo, Tom Coleman, Bernard Leach, Kurt Weiser,
Steven Hill, Daniel Rhodes, and Rick St. John.
I do not believe these people would appreciate having their name
removed from their recipe's and for me to take credit for formulating
those same recipe's.
Rafael
rmr3431@dcccd.edu
Hluch - Kevin A. on fri 2 may 97
Rafael,
All well and good. But are these glazes going to indentified as to
sources after they're fired on pots? To tell you the truth, I really
don't understand what the uproar is about.
Perhaps all of this will end when potters put little circled c's on their
formulas.....I guess it would be a better world then.
Kevin A. Hluch
102 E. 8th St.
Frederick, MD 21701
USA
e-mail: kahluch@umd5.umd.edu
On Thu, 1 May 1997, Rafael Molina-Rodriguez (Rafael Molina-Rodriguez) wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Kevin :
>
> >And you're all worried about so-called plagerized glaze formulas from
> >a compendium compiled from non-attributed sources.
>
> Your term "non-attributed sources" is incorrect. Here are some of the
> sources cited :
>
> David Leach, Elmer Taylor, Jeff Oestrich, Bill Van Gilder, James Watkins,
> Linda Arbuckle, Gibby Gibson, Larry Bush, Brian Kemp, Adelaide Paul,
> Walter Keeler, Marie Woo, Tom Coleman, Bernard Leach, Kurt Weiser,
> Steven Hill, Daniel Rhodes, and Rick St. John.
>
> I do not believe these people would appreciate having their name
> removed from their recipe's and for me to take credit for formulating
> those same recipe's.
>
> Rafael
> rmr3431@dcccd.edu
>
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