Clennell on thu 11 sep 97
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Forgive me for not researching this matter first before making
>judgements... I am skeptical by nature on this sort of thing... How long
>has this ITC 100 been in use? There must be some scientific research
>around to validate all of the claims about its properties.... If so would
>someone please send me a copy of this data, claims (not flaking.. being one
>I want to see in print) and other characteristics... ...Marshall
Dear Marshall: Poop is brown and so is chocolate, so poop must taste like
chocolate! I didn't need any scientific evidence to decide I'd eat one and
not the other. On this list there are a number of potters that use and
endorse this product. From my limited knowledge of users they include John
Glick, Malcolm Davis, Mel Jacobsen, Nils Lou, Linda Blossom, Liz
Willoughby, Eric Lindgen, Pat
Chesney, Dannon Rhudy, and Joe Molinaro. These are professional potters,
authors and educators and some of the best. Do you think they would stake
their reputations on selling snake oil? You take the scientific evidence
and I'll take the word of respected everyday users.
For the record ITC products have been around for 17 years in industry.
Marshall, I think we as potters are always the last to learn about new
technology. Fifteen years ago I built a wood kiln out of hard brick because
it was cheap. Industry hadn't used hards for decades. I am now able to
get softbrick really cheap. Guess why- industry has moved on to fibre
modules.
Kiln technology is moving forward. We don't always have to ride in the caboose.
Cheers,
Tony
Sheila and Tony Clennell
Gleason Brook Pottery
Box l0, RR#2,
Wiarton, Ontario
NOH 2TO
Canada
Phone # 1 (519) 534-2935
Fax # 1 (519) 534-0602
E-mail clennell@bmts.com
Jennifer Boyer on fri 12 sep 97
I gotta say something here,
I've talked to the lady at the ITC office, Alice I think, since I just
coated my old gas kiln and firing number 2 will take place tomorrow. The
kiln is firing differently and I don't have a handle on it yet. I'll let
you know. But talking to Alice, I have to understand Marshall's
frustration. Alice LOVES the product she sells and is very enthusiastic
about what it can do. She claims alot but doesn't have much to back it up
with. She says _you'll love it_. I decided to go with it because of
Clayart testimonials. I also think the instructions that come with it are a
little sketchy.For example they don't make it easy for you to tell the
rental place what size compressor you need if you're spraying it. And I
found out over the phone that it's good to elevate the bucket of ITC to a
higher level than where you are spraying. That wasn't in the instructions
and I only found out by accident. I still think the stuff is great. I can
see that my mangy old soft bricks now have a hard surface that will
discourage flaking, and my fiber door is alot pleasanter to be around now
that it has a hard shell. Mind you the coating is very thin, but I feel the
fiber won't get into the air if I brush against it, now that it's got ITC
on it. The jury is out on fuel savings. The kiln fires very differently and
I think I have already gotten an evener firing in the first firing. I'll
let you all know how the next ones go. The old L&L is next.
Jennifer
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>Forgive me for not researching this matter first before making
>>judgements... I am skeptical by nature on this sort of thing... How long
>>has this ITC 100 been in use? There must be some scientific research
>>around to validate all of the claims about its properties.... If so would
>>someone please send me a copy of this data, claims (not flaking.. being one
>>I want to see in print) and other characteristics... ...Marshall
>
>Dear Marshall: Poop is brown and so is chocolate, so poop must taste like
>chocolate! I didn't need any scientific evidence to decide I'd eat one and
>not the other. On this list there are a number of potters that use and
>endorse this product. From my limited knowledge of users they include John
>Glick, Malcolm Davis, Mel Jacobsen, Nils Lou, Linda Blossom, Liz
>Willoughby, Eric Lindgen, Pat
>Chesney, Dannon Rhudy, and Joe Molinaro. These are professional potters,
>authors and educators and some of the best. Do you think they would stake
>their reputations on selling snake oil? You take the scientific evidence
>and I'll take the word of respected everyday users.
>For the record ITC products have been around for 17 years in industry.
>Marshall, I think we as potters are always the last to learn about new
>technology. Fifteen years ago I built a wood kiln out of hard brick because
>it was cheap. Industry hadn't used hards for decades. I am now able to
>get softbrick really cheap. Guess why- industry has moved on to fibre
>modules.
>Kiln technology is moving forward. We don't always have to ride in the
>caboose.
>Cheers,
>Tony
>
>
>Sheila and Tony Clennell
>Gleason Brook Pottery
>Box l0, RR#2,
>Wiarton, Ontario
>NOH 2TO
>Canada
>
>Phone # 1 (519) 534-2935
>Fax # 1 (519) 534-0602
>E-mail clennell@bmts.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, Vt. 05602
jboyer@plainfield.bypass.com
Karl P. Platt on fri 12 sep 97
On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Clennell wrote:
> Dear Marshall: Poop is brown and so is chocolate, so poop must taste like
> chocolate! I didn't need any scientific evidence to decide I'd eat one and
> not the other
But you don't specify which
> These are professional potters,
> authors and educators and some of the best. Do you think they would stake
> their reputations on selling snake oil? You take the scientific evidence
> and I'll take the word of respected everyday users.
No-one on the list is selling anything -- it's against the rules. All have
reported positive
experiences. The reasons for this are real unclear and Marshall is asking
legitimate questions. Putting some sort of puckey -- any kind-- on an
otherwise leaky
kiln wall will, of course, reduce losses and therefore fuel consumption.
Whether or not this makes sense is an entirely other matter. It could be
that the cost of the material and applying it could exceed reasonable
limits of payback on the investment.
> For the record ITC products have been around for 17 years in industry.
> Marshall, I think we as potters are always the last to learn about new
> technology.
I've been in the industry about this long and have never heard of the
stuff. I also doubt, for reasons which are beyond the scope of this
discussion, that applying a thin film of anything on a kiln wall can have
anything but limited effects related to reducing leakage and/or increading
the emissivity of the surface. There is nothing to suggest that the
material can have any effect on the net thermal conductivity of the wall
--
were this the case the film would have to have some infinitely small
thermal conductivity -- way beyond the scope of reality.
Industry hadn't used hards for decad
On the contrary, hardbrick are commonly used in a variety of applications
ranging from tunnel kilns to blast furnaces. I think that if you consult
an industry census you will find that hardbrick are the largest selling
product.
> I am now able to
> get softbrick really cheap. Guess why- industry has moved on to fibre
> modules
Improved efficiency in manufacturing, cheap(er) natural gas and
competition between makers has
more to do with price than displacement of IFB by ceramic textile It
might also mean that your concept of cheap has changed, too. Demand for
IFB is anything but soft.
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