Eleanora Eden on fri 18 oct 96
In the past all efforts to sell sets of dishes through a store have
failed because I was not willing to give a break on my share of the take
when the store was not willing to give a break too. My position was
always well if you want me to take less you have to also be willing to
take less.
Well the issue is up again and I'd like to know how other people handle it.
As a one person outfit making more pieces isn't easier. But a big sale
is nice. In this instance the store is being reasonable. So what kind
of discount off single-dish price should the customer expect?
TIA
Eleanora
Eleanora Eden 802 869-2003
Paradise Hill
Bellows Falls, VT 05101 eden@maple.sover.net
Richard Boyd on fri 18 oct 96
Eleanore,
Your time and energy is just as valuable creating single pieces as sets. In
fact we have all seen the times when that one piece to complete a set is
compromised because of one problem or another. I give no price breaks for
sets nor do I ask for discounts from my auto mechanic when he repairs one
item or does a complete tune-up.
Boyd
Iron River MI
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>In the past all efforts to sell sets of dishes through a store have
>failed because I was not willing to give a break on my share of the take
>when the store was not willing to give a break too. My position was
>always well if you want me to take less you have to also be willing to
>take less.
>
>Well the issue is up again and I'd like to know how other people handle it.
>As a one person outfit making more pieces isn't easier. But a big sale
>is nice. In this instance the store is being reasonable. So what kind
>of discount off single-dish price should the customer expect?
>
>TIA
>
>Eleanora
>
>Eleanora Eden 802 869-2003
>Paradise Hill
>Bellows Falls, VT 05101 eden@maple.sover.net
>
>
Sue Davis on fri 18 oct 96
I do wholesale to shops and specilize in dinner ware. I price the pieces
individually at a retail price and then give the shops a 40% discount per
piece. They in turn mark the pieces up 100% or so. The customer can then
order additional pieces through the shop or gallery. This has worked for me
for about 5 years with no problems. When I sell retail at shows or in the
studio, I never discount the pieces but charge the retail price listed on my
price. However, if the retail customer buys a complete set I will "add" free
cream & sugar, or something else that they may want. This seems to make them
happy and protects the shop where I am wholesaling. I work in stoneware and
Majolica.
Sue
The rain finally stopped in S. Florida and Lili is going out to sea :-)
Bob Kavanagh on fri 18 oct 96
Good afternoon Eleanora
In fact, I work slightly in the reverse direction when I do dinner sets,
from what I think you are saying. I do not do large numbers of them, by
choice, but when I do them, I increase my price slightly (about 10%). My
reasoning is that my time, work, care, attention, etc., increases when I
make this diversity of useful objects which must all fit together as if
they were one thing, and which should all share a harmonious feel I
require an order of a minimum of 8 places with at least 4 pieces
(preferably 5) per place.
bob kavanagh (60 km west of montreal)
Bonnema on sat 19 oct 96
We do not discount on dinnerware. We don't take orders on matching sets any
longer, people come to our showroom and pick from the stock, but when we
did we always felt that the sets should cost more not less.
Garret Bonnema
--
Garret Bonnema
bonnema@bdc.bethel.me.us
Dan Taylor on sat 19 oct 96
Hello Eleanora,
I sell a lot of dinner sets and never give discounts. The only
justification for any manufacturer to give quantity discounts is because the
cost of "set up" time for whatever machine is being used to make the product
is amortized over a greater number of pieces. Unless you're using a method
of production that allows you to do this, giving discounts only means you
are taking less money for your time. When I explain this to prospective
customers, they usually understand and are content to pay full price. Those
who don't accept this explanation obviously do not appreciate what
"hand-made" really means and probably won't appreciate your pottery either.
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
In the past all efforts to sell sets of dishes through a store have
failed because I was not willing to give a break on my share of the take
when the store was not willing to give a break too. My position was
always well if you want me to take less you have to also be willing to
take less.
Well the issue is up again and I'd like to know how other people handle it.
As a one person outfit making more pieces isn't easier. But a big sale
is nice. In this instance the store is being reasonable. So what kind
of discount off single-dish price should the customer expect?
TIA
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Dan Taylor dataylor@mlc.awinc.com
Taylor Clayworks Ph: (403)527-1002
1340 - 10th Ave. NE Fax: (403)527-1032
Medicine Hat, AB T1A 6G3 "Strive to die young, but put it off as long
as you can"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Sue Lily on sat 19 oct 96
Eleanora -
None! I don't understand. :-( Why do you need to offer "a deal" to get
a set of dishes? I'm sure a set of your dishes would be wonderful. I call
mine "Art you can eat off" (off of which you can eat) :-)
How much clay do you have to buy before you get a discount?
Why do people do that to us - "Will you give me a break if I buy two? "
If anything, dinner sets should cost more - you have to make the pieces
match, in size and firing - I always make two or three times what I need to
get a good sets. Actually, when stores take orders on work that isn't
made yet - they get a 10% finders fee rather than the usual consignment.
The pots certainly aren't taking up any retail or storage space.
Some potters I know refuse to do any consignment - only wholesale. They
feel the store owner works much harder to sell things they already own -
and the artist doesn't have to keep track of pots that are paid for. They
can also wheel and deal all they want.
I enjoy paying consignment to stores that keep good records, pay me on
time, have insurance, take orders, keep the shelves dusted, offer services
to their customers...
Actually, this question could lead around to the discussion of unions; I
have felt for a long time that we are hostage to our autonomy. In the last
ten years, promoters add booth spaces and raise fees without delivering
more buyers - they take an extra few thousand dollars, the artists make
less.
And galleries are charging 50% consignment! What is their formula for
wholesale? Used to be 50/50. And of course, they don't protect you by
limiting how many artists they represent - Oh, no - gotta keep the
inventory changing. They want your "best sellers" so they won't take your
experimental, changing work - but they want you to display only in their
gallery.... I guess I was always hoping to find a mentor in the gallery
owner - who would encourage me and represent my work.
The difficulty of unionizing cottage artists was insurmountable
until.....The Internet! Clayart! Eureka! If we wanted to do it - this is
the tool for the job.
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>In the past all efforts to sell sets of dishes through a store have
>failed because I was not willing to give a break on my share of the take
>when the store was not willing to give a break too. My position was
>always well if you want me to take less you have to also be willing to
>take less.
>
>Well the issue is up again and I'd like to know how other people handle it.
>As a one person outfit making more pieces isn't easier. But a big sale
>is nice. In this instance the store is being reasonable. So what kind
>of discount off single-dish price should the customer expect?
French Butter Jars
Ms. Lilypots
lily@mind.net
Ashland OR
Evan Dresel on sat 19 oct 96
At 08:45 AM 10-18-96 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>In the past all efforts to sell sets of dishes through a store have
>failed because I was not willing to give a break on my share of the take
>when the store was not willing to give a break too. My position was
>always well if you want me to take less you have to also be willing to
>take less.
>
>Well the issue is up again and I'd like to know how other people handle it.
>As a one person outfit making more pieces isn't easier. But a big sale
>is nice. In this instance the store is being reasonable. So what kind
>of discount off single-dish price should the customer expect?
>
>TIA
>
>Eleanora
>
Gee, it seems to me that the store should give the price break and you
should get full price. Afterall, their cost of advertising and sales effort
is about the same for selling one piece or a set and if it is a special
order they don't have to carry the inventory. You on the other hand have to
do all the work and pay for all the materials and firing. Or is that too
logical? I'd hold out for 50:50.
-- Evan in W. Richland Washington where it's cooled off enough to brew ale.
ZALT@aol.com on sun 20 oct 96
There are two approches to your delima. The first is that you are being
asked to reduce your price in order to sell a complete set of dishes, Right?
If this is the case you must ask yourself what did it cost for you to make
the set. By this you must take into account your fixed costs and then your
variable costs. The only area you will be able to reduce the cost of making
the dishes is your labour and your established profit margin.
If you have priced your work properly you will be able to see if you can live
with giving up a few dollars without compromising your labour and profit
margin.
The second approch is to take the hit for a few dollars even if it cuts into
your profit margin and labour. You will do this inorder to get reorders when
the client breaks a piece or wished to add to the set. This is when you make
up for the loss on your sale of the original set. The sale below cost here
is called Loss Leader.
A Friend of mine stated that one of the best ways to build a functional
pottery business is to make one great dinner setting line and build upon it.
He may be right.
Best regards.
Eleanora Eden on wed 23 oct 96
Hi Sue and all,
I appreciate the responses I am getting, you are all my better self talking!
Being untutored in business I am spectacularly easy to take advantage
of. So I need policy positions to help me. Today for instance I got a
call from a gallery I stopped doing business with wanting particular
dishes for a customer and quite opaque to my attempts to explain why only
a finder's fee and not a 40% cut was appropriate. It seemed that I
repeated myself till I was blue in the face. If I had not had my policy
position that stuff that never sits on her shelf only gets a finder's fee
I just probably would have gotten frustrated and impatient but instead I
just kept explaining my position til she got it.
The other day I actually got an old gent from SCORE, the retired business
persons outreach from US Commerce Dept over to help me with pricing. He
was delightful and very patient. He said I must cut down on what I
offer or I will always be buried like this. He also proposed tht for
anything that I don't normally do I charge a surcharge of 15-20%, he said
this is normal business practice. So that fits with what you are all saying.
And so I've decided to write the guy who wants a cheese knife and the gal
who wants a soap dispenser and tell them that the development time for me
to design and produce a special item make it too costly for me to do.
And in future I will not even consider such proposals which will make my
life considerably more manageable (as the saying goes).
I also agree that there are some customers who are just endless trouble.
But, also thanks to this list, I have been developing a more patient
attitude.
I just wish I had time to get to the bottom of my mailbox! I don't know
how you all do it...I always seem to be a couple of hundred messages behind.
I'm trying to step back and look at the big picture and figure out what
kind of business I do which is advantageous and what kind isn't. On this
particular dish set thing I was talking about the store is willing to
take just a finder's fee so I will just leave it at that.
Eleanora.....looking forward to the Keene pumpkin festival where over
20,000 jack-o-lanterns will cover the town center this saturday night.
Eleanora Eden 802 869-2003
Paradise Hill
Bellows Falls, VT 05101 eden@maple.sover.net
Corinne Null on thu 24 oct 96
>a finder's fee and not a 40% cut was appropriate.
>
>the store is willing to
>take just a finder's fee so I will just leave it at that.
>
I've been following this thread, yet hadn't heard the term "finder's fee"
before. What does it mean?
Corinne Null
Bedford, NH
cnull@mv.mv.com
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