Talbott on fri 11 jul 97
Being a studio potter..(not me but Celia) and as a studio pottery where
pottery is either thrown on the wheel or slab/hand built.. it is becoming
clear that to make a real go of this business will require us to get into
some production methods... I am in the process of investigating these
processes to see which is most applicable to our situation... Hence the
earlier post on the Jolly Jigger...
Another question I have is the comparison of slip-casting to jigging.... I
need to visit a production operation but I would also appreciate advice on
sources of information on various production methods...
I am also looking for good sources of information on Macro cryatalline
glazes... cone 8-10...both recipes AND firing schedules.... I have lots of
work ahead of me it seems.. ...Thanks.... Marshall
PS... Ever so often we get a visitor into our new gallery who know of us
through Clayart... The 1st Annual Clayarters Gallery has resulted in the
aggregating of some very fine pottery.. Be sure to visit us if you are in
Maine this summer...
1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT, Private Room: Clayarters
E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net
Carl D. Cravens on sun 13 jul 97
On Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:29:39 EDT in list.clayart, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Being a studio potter..(not me but Celia) and as a studio pottery where
>pottery is either thrown on the wheel or slab/hand built.. it is becoming
>clear that to make a real go of this business will require us to get into
>some production methods... I am in the process of investigating these
>processes to see which is most applicable to our situation... Hence the
>earlier post on the Jolly Jigger...
Handmade work is time consuming... but I don't buy stuff unless I know
reasonably well that it was build by hand, not by mechanical forming or
casting.
I want hand-thrown pots, not a reproduction of a hand-thrown pot. Other
people may feel differently, but that's my opinion.
And be honest with your customer... don't try to pass off your ware as
"handcrafted" unless it really is. (I don't consider jiggered or cast
work to be "handcrafted". Sure, it wasn't made entirely by machine, but
there wasn't any real craft there... just manual labor to make the
machine turn out a finished product. Your glazing might be skillful and
artistic, and maybe that's what you're really selling.)
Funny... there's a lot of competition in this area. Our biggest arts
and crafts show is the Wichita River Festival, at which you can see at
least 10 potters from the Kansas area. I'd like to get into production
pottery on a part-time basis, but I don't see any room in the market
unless I can produce something really unique and interesting. (As well
as functional.) I know that some of the potters sell nothing but cast
ware... the public still buys it up, of course.
--
Carl D. Cravens (ravenpub@southwind.net)
You are in a maze of twisty messages, all alike.
David Hendley on sun 13 jul 97
At 10:29 PM 7/11/97 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Being a studio potter..(not me but Celia) and as a studio pottery where
>pottery is either thrown on the wheel or slab/hand built.. it is becoming
>clear that to make a real go of this business will require us to get into
>some production methods.
I vehemently disagree with this premise.
You can either be a studio potter or you can be a production potter.
Each has its own different set of challenges, but you can "make a go it" in
either area. Once you start jiggering and casting your competion becomes
ceramic factories and you are faced with trying to "move" large quantites of
"product".
My personal opinion: The WORST of all worlds is the small
"handcrafted" pottery shop with a handfull of employees. All the headaches
of a factory situation with none of the economies. Oh well, whatever works
for you.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
Carol Ratliff.clayart.CLAYART.MAILING LIST on mon 14 jul 97
In a message dated 97-07-13 10:21:38 EDT, you write:
> I know that some of the potters sell nothing but cast
> ware... the public still buys it up, of course.
Thought I'd jump in here to say that this is a sad fact of life, however
there are still plenty of us who won't "buy it up." I like handcrafted
too!!!! I refuse to give in to that kind of pressure to make a buck. I just
have to work harder or hire help. It is a personal (&financial) decision
most of us have to make. Do you want to make handcrafted pots or do you just
want to produce a product? Just my 2 cents.
carol ratliff,
san diego, CA
Richard Aerni on mon 14 jul 97
Carl D. Cravens wrote:
I'd like to get into production
> pottery on a part-time basis, but I don't see any room in the market
> unless I can produce something really unique and interesting. (As well
> as functional.) I know that some of the potters sell nothing but cast
> ware... the public still buys it up, of course.
Carl,
As far as I can tell, the market for honest functional pottery has never
been better than it is now. I remember starting out twenty years ago,
when there was no wholesale market to speak of, and prices were low. Of
course it was cheap to produce pots then, too. Then came the eighties
and the decade of the "pots about pots", which sold for large prices, but
had a limited clientele--functional was not cool. Those of us who stuck
with functional work throughout that period have been rewarded in the
nineties as the market for "pots" has just mushroomed. Prices have
increased dramatically, and most of my peers are turning away galleries
who want to carry their work. I don't think this is just from my little
clique of friends--I believe that good functional work is selling well
all across the country. I'd be curious to hear from others about this.
So I would hope you won't give up your dream because you don't feel
there's room for you in today's marketplace. Good pots will always sell.
Richard Aerni...getting ready to head to Ann Arbor and test my theory.
Robert S. Bruch on tue 15 jul 97
Having recently attended a Richard Notkin slide
presentation, I would be careful about denegrating
the casting process as not being creative. The same
venue presented P. Warashima last year, and I think
she uses casting in some aspects of her work. A "more"
functional artist, Michael Corney does some interesting
cast work as well.
There are aspects of all methods of work that could be
beneficial to newcomers to the ceramics world, and there
appear to many such people on this list. Maybe we should
take some amount of care when overstating our own
personal biases.
JMHO
--
Bob Bruch rsb8@po.cwru.edu
Carol Jackaway on tue 15 jul 97
Hi All,
I am a handbuilder of funcitional art. Instead of coil buildin my pots,
I have made simple press molds of the basic designs and then go from there.
This allows me to produce more quanity and still allow me time to create
quailty. I still consider this to be all made by hand.
Just a short reply, got to get back to work
CoilLady
Carol
SUNNY AND 98!!!!!!!!
Talbott on tue 15 jul 97
We don't intend to give up on producing handmade pottery... but
there is a call for really stackable and thin dinnerware settings and
similar items which we find difficult to make by hand... I personally
know of only one potter who can make a living strickly by handbuilding and
throwing pottery... I know of many more who do make a living at pottery and
they COMBINE production methods AND throwing AND hand/slab building
pottery. The economic reality is that a pottery business cannot survive
without a reasonable income to sustain the operation and provide for the
needs of their family. It is not a matter of throwing art out of the
window .. it is a matter of earning a living... so that you can persue your
art and your dreams... That is only my opinion... that is just how I see
it in my own particular situation... I am still just investigating these
production possibilities and I think they have potential to increase our
market share... Marshall
1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT, Private Room: Clayarters
E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net
Lori and Rob on tue 15 jul 97
For me handcrafting is the only way. Its the feel of the clay in my
hands while the piece is taking shape that gives me that warm fuzzy
feeling. I don't think jiggering or casting could cut it for me. Just
my thoughts.
Always in clay
Lori Lynn
Fay & Ralph Loewenthal on wed 16 jul 97
Cast ware is not just factory production ware. I take
great exception to the fact that there are some who
cannot see the benefits from using casting methods to
speed up their production. My wife, Fay, makes
sculptured planters. The large ones I hand build and she
uses the same clay to sculpt onto them. The smaller
ones we cast and we cast the figures etc that go onto
the planters. The moulds for the figures are made by Fay
sculpting a slab and then the plaster moulds are made.
Fay cuts up these slabs, and uses figures and pieces to
build up the planters. Each planter is unique. It takes
time to create each one, but not as much as if one had
to "Hand build" each one. The cast figures also stick on
easier and better to the pots . We have very little with
cracks or air bubbles blowing out. Fay decorates each planter individually.
Some of the thrown and glazed pots that I have seen do not have 10% of the
effort Fay puts
into her pots. Such generalising is wrong. I have seen
exhibitions of renowned South African potters, who have
made moulds of their work and cast a "Limited Edition",
which sells for very good prices. There is casting and
casting, just as there can be thrown wares being
produced by the thousands, so can cast ware be
individuallistic as well. Ralph in PE SA.
James Henry Gorman on wed 16 jul 97
Pottery is hard work of love,why to people always try to cheapen it,
by trying to take shortcuts.
painters have prints done of their work,printed for$3.00 sold for$30and
up!!!
hey now just go to a color copier a get one for a dollar or two. OH
BOY!!!!!!!!
the frame is worth more than the print!!
think about it the next time you see somebody using a ram press or
jiggering
pottery these people are the ones that will ruin handmade pottery if we let
them! Just tell them it's not handmade !!
JIM GORMAN
500 SOUTHGATE
BLACKSBURG VA 24060 540 953 0673 GORMO1@AOL
Talbott on wed 16 jul 97
So which tools are considered to be acceptable in the manufacturing of
handmade pottery and which tools are considered to be unacceptable?...
....Best Wishes... Marshall
1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT, Private Room: Clayarters
E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net
Talbott on thu 17 jul 97
It is easy to throw stones when you are on the outside looking in but
perhaps if you are ACTUALLY making or attempting to make a living at your
craft (which Celia and I are not at the present) then you truely have a
different perspective on using production methods as a possible way to
increase your income potential... We know a tremendously skillful studio
potter who has been unable to make a living as a studio potter and has had
to go into production to make financial ends meet... Does this make him or
her less of a potter or person for doing so? This potter can throw like no
bodies business and has design ideas that truely seperate him as being an
artist and not just one who can only manufacture... There probably are
those who have been able to earn a living as a purely studio potter but how
many do you personally know?.. This does not mean that you scam your
customers if you produce via slip casting, jiggering or ram-pressing... you
can inform them of how certain items are produced... I believe that honesty
pays off in return customers.... That pottery near Boothbay Harbor is
considered to be the largest art pottery in the US and I have yet to see
their work as being inferior because they use some production methods.
They have a tremendous following to support their business. Bottom line is
that you can make artful work via production methods or by studio methods
and vice-versa... Because you use some production methods does not mean
that you give up on your studio methods... The key is to do well at
whatever methods you choose to employ.... Marshall
1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT, Private Room: Clayarters
E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net
stevemills on thu 17 jul 97
As shopkeepers we see work of all types in all forms of ceramic and my
view is that "all's fair in Love and Ceramics".
--
Steve Mills
@Bath Potters Supplies
Dorset Close
Bath
BA2 3RF
UK
Tel:(44) (0)1225 337046
Fax:(44) (0)1225 462712
Vince Pitelka on fri 18 jul 97
I am a little uncomfortable with some of the language and implications of
this thread. I have missed some of this thread, so I hope that the
following does not just repeat previous posts.
To me a production potter is just a studio potter who works extremely
efficiently (handbuilding or throwing) producing many multiples of stock
shapes, usually selling most of his/her work wholesale. I did that for
quite a few years in California. It is a good living if one can deal with
the repetitive grind. The point here is that every single piece is thrown
by the potter (or his/her assistants/apprentices) and is technically an
individual piece, very slightly different from every other.
This will raise some hackles, but jiggering, slip casting, and ram pressing,
when used as high-production methods, are a whole different ball game. With
all of these methods, relative inexperienced workers can be taught the
appropriate techniques, and can do a fine job of making exact multiples of
the original. The original may be very beautiful and original, and the cast
or pressed pieces will be beautiful, but every cast or pressed piece makes
the item less original. Slip casting and ram pressing are of course very
viable production methods, but they are industrial methods far removed from
the province of the studio potter. What this boils down to is that each of
us must simply be completely honest about the avenue we choose. If you are
ram pressing or slip casting zillions of multiples, don't call yourself a
studio potter, and don't sell your work as handmade. To do otherwise is to
mislead the buying public, and it is a stab in the back to every independent
studio potter who still does things the old fashioned way.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
James Henry Gorman on fri 18 jul 97
I would trade a perfect ram press pot for a pot made
by hand that is not perfect as long as it has the touch
of the potter! That means from beginner to the master
potter period!
Jim gorman
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