mel jacobson on tue 1 oct 96
>Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 07:05:30
>To: listserv@lsv.uky.edu
>From: mel jacobson
>Subject: pug mills
>
>a sock on the handle is not weird...in some cases (as in mine) i have 3
inches of foam wrapped with duct tape. i have modified the bend in the
handle to fit my arm length. a friend cut off five inches from the legs of
his walker so that he had more pressure on the handle..he is 5'9" and the
walker was too tall for him...ANY piece of shop equipment should be modified
to fit the potter..far to many potters feel that the machine as it comes
from the factory MUST be perfect, in most cases it is made generic to fit
the "Average Consumer"...and if you are 6 foot 7, or 4 foot 11 1/2 you had
better modify.
>
>The same idea is important in the height of your wheel...experiment..Kevin
Caufield the fine st. paul potter has his shimpo set on three concrete
blocks because he loves to throw on a high wheel.. i know many potters that
take their chair with them when they have to do a demo...ALL of the old pros
out there know what i mean...the most awful feeling one can have is going
into some obscure school with a beat up old shimpo with one leg missing and
be expected to do a wonderful demo with chunky earthenware...i travel with
my clay, the wheel when possible, and my stool. i think i can throw pots on
any wheel that excists, but i don't want to. mel jacobson/minnesota. on the
way to the farm to share my kilns with friends and a week of salt, wood,
stoneware, primitive, and raku...should be 20 of us... what you share and
give away comes back to you 5 times over.
>
Jonathan Kaplan on mon 17 nov 97
I have an opportunity to buy a new pug mill to work in conjunction with our
new 60 ton hydraulic RAM press.
I have used Bluebird equipment for many many years, and am quite satisfied
with it. My concern is adequate vacuum to deair properly for pressing.
Any suggestions from the list? Venco? Van Ho? Western Clay Machinery? FRH?
I'l idealy like a mill that can put out 800-1000 pounds/hour.
TIA
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan http://www.craftweb.com/org/jkaplan/cdg.shtml
http://www.ceramicsoftware.com/education/clay/kaplan1.htm
jonathan@csn.net
Ceramic Design Group Ltd./Production Services Voice:
970-879-9139 POB 775112
FAXmodem: same
Steamboat Springs, Colorado 80477, USA CALL before faxing
Plant Location: 30800 Moffat Avenue #13 Steamboat Springs Co 80487
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shipments)
Talbott on mon 17 nov 97
Venco is the industry standard in pugmills.. Axner Pottery Supply is one
dealer here in the US... They are build like a brick s**t house. If you
want the best get a Venco! ...Marshall
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I have an opportunity to buy a new pug mill to work in conjunction with our
>new 60 ton hydraulic RAM press.
>
>I have used Bluebird equipment for many many years, and am quite satisfied
>with it. My concern is adequate vacuum to deair properly for pressing.
>
>Any suggestions from the list? Venco? Van Ho? Western Clay Machinery? FRH?
>
>I'l idealy like a mill that can put out 800-1000 pounds/hour.
>
>TIA
>
>Jonathan
>
>
>
>Jonathan Kaplan http://www.craftweb.com/org/jkaplan/cdg.shtml
>
>http://www.ceramicsoftware.com/education/clay/kaplan1.htm
>
>
>
>jonathan@csn.net
>Ceramic Design Group Ltd./Production Services Voice:
>970-879-9139 POB 775112
>FAXmodem: same
>Steamboat Springs, Colorado 80477, USA CALL before faxing
>
>Plant Location: 30800 Moffat Avenue #13 Steamboat Springs Co 80487
>(please use this address for all UPS, courier, and common carrier
>shipments)
101 CLAYART MUGS... A TRAVELING EXHIBIT
2ND ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1998)
E-MAIL ME FOR AN APPLICATION
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
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nikom chimnok on tue 18 nov 97
Will someone please tell me how many horsepower are required for a pugmill
that puts out 1000 pounds per hour? What's the diamater of the nozzle? Do
you have to force the clay into the hopper?
I've never seen a real pugmill. All we have here are homemade, using a 5 hp
motor to pug about 650 lbs per hour, 5 inch diameter. I'm curious to compare.
TIA
Nikom
koratpot@loxinfo.co.th
Kathi LeSueur on wed 19 nov 97
I use a Bluebird Powerstar pugmill and RAM press with the clay from it. No
problems. The vacuum is fine. If you like your machine don't waste money on
buying another.
Have to disagree about the Venco. It's a good machine, but the Bluebird is
much more versatile. You can easily extrude with it. I had an attachment
welded for me that allows me to extrude peices 8" across. If there is a
problem with it parts can be gotten from any Grainger outlet. It's easy to
service yourself. The first one I had was the studio model sold in 1976. I
sold it to a friend several years ago. Original motor. The only thing
replaced on it was the cover and handle for the hopper. With the new
stainless models even that isn't a problem.
kathi LeSueur
Susan Ammann on wed 19 nov 97
I know there was a pretty long thread on the topic of pugmills a
while back, but I wasn't interested in buying one at the time so I
didn't save any of that info (and it seems that the clayart archives
only go back to July). So here I sit wondering which to buy. I'll
be using it primarily for recycling scrap. I'm leaning toward a
Bluebird 440V, the size is about right, the price is about right and
it even seems to have some functionality as an extruder. Anyone
using this pugmill? Anyone have any experience with Bluebird vs.
Venco or any other? Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom.
Susan Ammann
ammann@newmex.com
Talbott on thu 20 nov 97
Don't tell anybody BUT I understand that there will be dies available for
the Venco but let's keep it a secret! If interested e-mail me and I will
tell you the source of the dies. Place a Venco beside a Bluebird and see
for yourself.. like a Toyota beside a Chevy... the Venco being the Toyota
of course. ..Marshall
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I use a Bluebird Powerstar pugmill and RAM press with the clay from it. No
>problems. The vacuum is fine. If you like your machine don't waste money on
>buying another.
>
>Have to disagree about the Venco. It's a good machine, but the Bluebird is
>much more versatile. You can easily extrude with it. I had an attachment
>welded for me that allows me to extrude peices 8" across. If there is a
>problem with it parts can be gotten from any Grainger outlet. It's easy to
>service yourself. The first one I had was the studio model sold in 1976. I
>sold it to a friend several years ago. Original motor. The only thing
>replaced on it was the cover and handle for the hopper. With the new
>stainless models even that isn't a problem.
>
>kathi LeSueur
101 CLAYART MUGS
2ND ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1998)
E-MAIL ME FOR AN APPLICATION
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
Clayarters' Live Chat Room, Fri & Sat Nites at 10 PM EDT & Sun at 1 PM EDT
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
Marni Turkel on thu 20 nov 97
I know that the original thread on pug mills was a question about pugging
for RAM pressing. I have no experience with the Bluebird in relation to
RAM pressing, but it was certainly good enough for throwing and jiggering.
I do have experience with the durability of Bluebird pug mills. In 1984 I
bought a 3" diameter de-airing pug mill from Bluebird. I used it almost
daily until 1991. My work change that year and I started using it 1 or 2
times a week until 1995. It sat unused for 2 1/2 years until a few weeks
ago when I need it again. I got it out, cleaned it out, and started it up.
It is still working great. I have never had to replace a thing. One of the
best pieces of equipment I have ever bought.
Marni
Marni Turkel
Stony Point Ceramic Design
Sonoma County, California
Kathi LeSueur on sat 22 nov 97
<<<the Venco but let's keep it a secret! If interested e-mail me and I will
tell you the source of the dies. Place a Venco beside a Bluebird and see
for yourself.. like a Toyota beside a Chevy... the Venco being the Toyota
of course. ..Marshall>>>
Sorry........ I stand by my opinion of Bluebird being the all round better
machine. I agree..... it's a chevy. I don't need bells and whistles....
plush seats........ and all of the other stuff that goes with a Toyota.
Just a good machine to get me to work (though I do prefer a Ford). Perhaps
Venco is finally getting around to making dies for their machine. Good. But,
Bluebird's made their machine work for extruding for 20 years and more. And
I out the Venco will be able to handle the 8" wide extrusions I'm doing with
my Bluebird. If I have a problem I can call Bluebird. Who do I call if I
have a Venco problem? And lastly, I've noticed that 10 years later Chevys are
still running while Toyotas are a bucket of rust.
Kathi
Talbott on sun 23 nov 97
Kathi...
Very Good Points... To the best of my knowledge there also are no
commercially available dies for the Venco at this point. And I did have a
'83 Toyota to rust out on me as well. So I guess you hit a Grand Slam.
What size dies are available for the Bluebird and what does an
extrusion/die set up cost for the Bluebirds.. I am sure more folks would
like to get more details on Bluebirds extrusion capabilities....
....Marshall
>Sorry........ I stand by my opinion of Bluebird being the all round better
>machine. I agree..... it's a chevy. I don't need bells and whistles....
> plush seats........ and all of the other stuff that goes with a Toyota.
>Just a good machine to get me to work (though I do prefer a Ford). Perhaps
>Venco is finally getting around to making dies for their machine. Good. But,
> Bluebird's made their machine work for extruding for 20 years and more. And
>I out the Venco will be able to handle the 8" wide extrusions I'm doing with
>my Bluebird. If I have a problem I can call Bluebird. Who do I call if I
>have a Venco problem? And lastly, I've noticed that 10 years later Chevys are
>still running while Toyotas are a bucket of rust.
>
>Kathi
101 CLAYART MUGS
2ND ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1998)
E-MAIL ME FOR AN APPLICATION
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
Clayarters' Live Chat Room, Fri & Sat Nites at 10 PM EDT & Sun at 1 PM EDT
http://webchat12.wbs.net/webchat3.so?Room=PRIVATE_Clayarters
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shanna Robinson on sun 24 aug 03
hello all,
i am looking to buy a used pug mill. i don't really wish to debate the =
merits, as i have stubbornly made up my mind that i will have one in my =
studio.
the kind i am most familiar with is a bluebird, i think the least =
complicated and expensive model they make, and it works just fine for my =
purposes.=20
i am in northern michigan and would be glad to find one close to home, =
but will consider any good, working mill that anyone might know about.
thanks!
shanna robinson
Joseph Bennion on fri 6 aug 04
Julie,
Here is how I manage scrap. As I throw and trim I put slop and
trimmings into five gallon plastic pails. I let these sit until there
are enough to warrant firing up my bluebird pugger. I feed this gunk
which has had lots of time for the slop to soften the more dry
trimmings into the pugger. Adding water directly into the pugmill is
something I never do.It will always squirt you in the face. If you have
some trimmings and broken green ware that need softening, add water or
slop and let it sit a few days. Putting bry scraps and water into a
pugmill together is asking their pugger to do a job it was not designed
to do unless you have one of those peter puggers that claims to be a
combination mixer and pugger.
Joe the Potter
--- Julie Moore wrote:
> Hi, new to the list. I was active on it years ago, but have been
> "away"
> for a while. Just wondering how many of you studio potters own pug
> mills? Do you have a solution for getting squirted when adding water
> to
> recycled clay that's gotten too dry?
>
> Thanks for your input,
> Julie
> Dirty Bird Pottery
> www.dirtybirdpottery.com
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
=====
Joseph Bennion PO Box 186 Spring City, Utah 84662 435-462-2708 www.horseshoemountainpottery.com
__________________________________
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Julie Moore on fri 6 aug 04
Hi, new to the list. I was active on it years ago, but have been "away"
for a while. Just wondering how many of you studio potters own pug
mills? Do you have a solution for getting squirted when adding water to
recycled clay that's gotten too dry?
Thanks for your input,
Julie
Dirty Bird Pottery
www.dirtybirdpottery.com
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM on sat 7 aug 04
I have a venco 3" ,, it squirts also. i try to put my hand over the top when
i add H20. Also i push the plunger down SLOWLY,,, I used to run all my new
clay thru the mill because i like to use soft clay.. After calling Highwater it
turns out i can have my clay made softer , i just have to pay more.. Its worth
it.
I also have a walker thats been rebuilt with new bushings and seals and a new
stainless shaft, havent used it for a while , it seems the venco has covered
all my needs ...
Mark
its 58 degrees this morning , how nice,, hasnt slowed the Humming birds, i
usually see 10 to 15 ,, have 4 feeders and have to refill often.. Found out that
to see Hummers i need to go to below Tuscon Arizona this month,, which i
couldnt do , need to fire the Alpine for a show in Watkinsville Ga that starts
Aug 28 for 3 weeks
Gary Harvey on sat 7 aug 04
Don't have a pugmill. Just put you clay into a container or plastic sheet
and put water on it. Let it set for a while and the clay will absorb the
water I promise you. I just wedge after soften up the clay but a pugmill
will do the same thing. You can mix harder clay and softer clays together in
pugmills or add water to it for softer clay. However if it is squirting
you, you need to add more clay to hopper before you add water. If after
pugging once the clay is still to hard pug again and add some more water. I
worked with pugmills years ago and so I know something about them. Gary
Harvey, Palestine TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Moore"
To:
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:38 PM
Subject: Pug mills
> Hi, new to the list. I was active on it years ago, but have been "away"
> for a while. Just wondering how many of you studio potters own pug
> mills? Do you have a solution for getting squirted when adding water to
> recycled clay that's gotten too dry?
>
> Thanks for your input,
> Julie
> Dirty Bird Pottery
> www.dirtybirdpottery.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sun 8 aug 04
Dear Mark,
If you having to push clay from the hopper to the barrel of your Venco
it is out of tune.
At some time in its existence someone has overloaded the machine with
clay which is much to hard and clogged the system. To free it up they
then would have heaved down on the plunger handle and moved the
flights out of their true, or should I say best, alignment. Their
pitch will have been shortened, especially at the periphery of the arc
and at the leading edge.
I was faced with such machine twenty years ago, borrowed from a tech
college. I removed the barrel and checked the flight angle. I recall I
changed the flight angle by about five degrees taking care not to
overstress the welded joints. After that all that was needed was to
drop clods of clay into hopper and watch the pug chunder out of the
orifice.
Must say that hardfacing screw augers forty years ago for ACC gave me
an insight into this problem.
Best regards,Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, 7 August 2004 8:37
Subject: Re: Pug mills
> I have a venco 3" ,, it squirts also. i try to put my hand over the
top when
> i add H20. Also i push the plunger down SLOWLY,,, I used to run all
my new
> clay thru the mill because i like to use soft clay.. After calling
Highwater it
> turns out i can have my clay made softer , i just have to pay more..
Its worth
> it.
>
> I also have a walker thats been rebuilt with new bushings and seals
and a new
> stainless shaft, havent used it for a while , it seems the venco has
covered
> all my needs ...
>
> Mark
> its 58 degrees this morning , how nice,, hasnt slowed the Humming
birds, i
> usually see 10 to 15 ,, have 4 feeders and have to refill often..
Found out that
> to see Hummers i need to go to below Tuscon Arizona this month,,
which i
> couldnt do , need to fire the Alpine for a show in Watkinsville Ga
that starts
> Aug 28 for 3 weeks
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Jeff Brown on sun 8 aug 04
On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:38:52 -0400, Julie Moore
wrote:
>Hi, new to the list. I was active on it years ago, but have been "away"
>for a while. Just wondering how many of you studio potters own pug
>mills? Do you have a solution for getting squirted when adding water to
>recycled clay that's gotten too dry?
>
>Thanks for your input,
>Julie
>Dirty Bird Pottery
>www.dirtybirdpottery.com
>
Hi Julie,
My solution to your problem is to soak your clay in a bucket of water
overnight, or as long as you need to... then set it out and let outer
service knida drip dry for an hour or so. That should often it enough so
that you do not need to add water at the pugmill.
P.S. ...Julie, Thank you for introducing me to Clayart 8 years ago...
Thank you,
Jeff Brown
950 1st NH Turnpike
Northwood, NH 03261
(603) 942-8829
http://www.jeffbrownpottery.com
....going on day 3 of a 9 day craft fair...the oldest running craft fair in
America.....
Julie Moore on sun 8 aug 04
Mark,
One benefit of pugging new clay is that because of the consistent
diameter of the pug you can mark off 1 pound increments on a board or
your wedging table and lop off what you need without weighing. Much
quicker!
Julie
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 7:08 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Pug mills
I have a venco 3" ,, it squirts also. i try to put my hand over the top
when i add H20. Also i push the plunger down SLOWLY,,, I used to run all
my new clay thru the mill because i like to use soft clay.. After
calling Highwater it turns out i can have my clay made softer , i just
have to pay more.. Its worth it.
Julie Moore on sun 8 aug 04
Just to clarify, I don't put dry pieces and water in the pugmill. I
just like to tweek the softness of the resultant pug a little by adding
a bit of water if the scrap is a little too stiff.
Julie
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Joseph
Bennion
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:20 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Pug mills
Julie,
Here is how I manage scrap. As I throw and trim I put slop and trimmings
into five gallon plastic pails. I let these sit until there are enough
to warrant firing up my bluebird pugger. I feed this gunk which has had
lots of time for the slop to soften the more dry trimmings into the
pugger. Adding water directly into the pugmill is something I never
do.It will always squirt you in the face. If you have some trimmings and
broken green ware that need softening, add water or slop and let it sit
a few days. Putting bry scraps and water into a pugmill together is
asking their pugger to do a job it was not designed to do unless you
have one of those peter puggers that claims to be a combination mixer
and pugger. Joe the Potter
--- Julie Moore wrote:
wayne on sun 8 aug 04
Joe:
I'm the obsessive owner of one of those Peter Puggers,
a VPM 30. Yes, it does indeed mix wet and dry together,
and does a marvelous job of it. My sloppy attempts at
throwing , dried out scrap, trimmings, etc go into
5 gallon buckets, and when full, three buckets go into
the pugger.
Dry, wet, doesn't seem to matter. Add whatever water
you need, a bit at a time, the pugger has a large enough
opening that it doesn't squirt anything at me. (A plus!)
Mix for 10-15 minutes, vacuum for a minute or two
and pug out the most delightful clay, not
only ready for throwing as is, but warmed as well (from
all the friction from mixing, I assume.) What a delight for
arthritic hands in a cold, wet climate, especially after
years of reclaiming clay and wedging by hand.
The factory tells me that one can also extrude with it,
but I haven't gotten that far yet. The nose is set up to
accept bolt-on dies.
Would I buy another? In a heartbeat.
Wayne Seidl
Key West, Florida, USA
North America, Terra
Latitude 81.45W, Longitude 24.33N
Elevation 3.1 feet (1m)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Bennion"
To:
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pug mills
> Julie,
> Here is how I manage scrap. As I throw and trim I put slop and
> trimmings into five gallon plastic pails. I let these sit until
there
> are enough to warrant firing up my bluebird pugger. I feed this
gunk
> which has had lots of time for the slop to soften the more dry
> trimmings into the pugger. Adding water directly into the pugmill
is
> something I never do.It will always squirt you in the face. If you
have
> some trimmings and broken green ware that need softening, add
water or
> slop and let it sit a few days. Putting bry scraps and water into
a
> pugmill together is asking their pugger to do a job it was not
designed
> to do unless you have one of those peter puggers that claims to be
a
> combination mixer and pugger.
> Joe the Potter
> --- Julie Moore wrote:
>
> > Hi, new to the list. I was active on it years ago, but have
been
> > "away"
> > for a while. Just wondering how many of you studio potters own
pug
> > mills? Do you have a solution for getting squirted when adding
water
> > to
> > recycled clay that's gotten too dry?
> >
> > Thanks for your input,
> > Julie
> > Dirty Bird Pottery
> > www.dirtybirdpottery.com
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________
__________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
>
> =====
> Joseph Bennion PO Box 186
Spring City, Utah 84662
435-462-2708 www.horseshoemountainpottery.com
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
____________________________________________________________________
__________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Vince Pitelka on mon 9 aug 04
> Just to clarify, I don't put dry pieces and water in the pugmill. I
> just like to tweek the softness of the resultant pug a little by adding
> a bit of water if the scrap is a little too stiff.
Julie -
I have always done this to soften clay that has become slightly stiff. I
just place a bucket of water on the bench in front of the pugmill, and I
break up the stiff chunks and dip the pieces in water before adding them to
the pugmill. That usually does the trick, and there is no problem with
water squirting back out of the mill. Ivor posted a message saying that a
properly set up pugmill should always self-feed, but that is only true with
clay of the proper consistency. If you are pugging stiff clay with some
water, then the pugmill will not self-feed, and you have to use the plunger.
Once the clay absorbs the water it will begin self-feeding again. When you
actually pour water into the hopper and then use the plunger, you can
certainly expect it to squirt back in your face.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 10 aug 04
<< Ivor posted a message saying that a properly set up Pugmill should
always self-feed, but that is only true with clay of the proper
consistency. >>
Dear Vince,
I recall Julie said she was trying to fine tune the clay, not trying
to discombobulate really firm stuff.
If clay is stiff then time has to be allowed for the edges of the
flights to shear clay from the blocks which are being added, really a
job for a mixer.
When water is added it begins to take in some of the clay and the
resultant fluid mixture starts to act as a lubricant. Slippage begins
and the flight edges will not bite into the harder clay. So the
operator uses more force on the plunger. Something has to give, Either
friction reasserts itself and the clay shears away or the metal bends
in response to being forced by a virtually immovable object. If it is
not realised that the flights have been pushed out of alignment then
the plunger comes into continuous, rather than occasional use.
So how many people have a need for Tuned Flights.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 10 aug 04
<just like to tweek the softness of the resultant pug a little by
adding a bit of water if the scrap is a little too stiff.>>
Dear Julie Moore,
Rather than adding water as you put your clay into the Puggim why not
put the clay through once to get reasonable sized pugs.Then slice
these into discs and immerse them in water for a few minutes . Take
out of the water allow the excess to drain then re pug.
I am certain you would get a more responsive clay by doing this.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Doric T. Jemison-Ball II on tue 10 aug 04
Vince:
I agree. Back in the late 60's in school, we had a Venco pug mill that we
threw everything into [including dry clay, not that I recommend that]. The
worst that we ever experienced was that sometimes we needed to pug it twice
to get even consistency. [And yes, we put water into the hopper. I don't
remember getting splashed, but I do remember using the plunger regularly.]
We also used it to add grog and coloring agents to clay.
Doric T.Jemison-Ball II
BBS-LA
14622 Ventura Blvd. #727
Sherman Oaks, CA 91403
Northern California
707-884-5067 Voice
707-884-5417 FAX
Southern California
818-262-6572 Message and Voice
buffalo@bbs-la.com
http://www.bbs-la.com
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from
oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that
will reach to himself." --Thomas Paine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pug mills
> > Rather than adding water as you put your clay into the Puggim why not
> > put the clay through once to get reasonable sized pugs.Then slice
> > these into discs and immerse them in water for a few minutes . Take
> > out of the water allow the excess to drain then re pug.
> > I am certain you would get a more responsive clay by doing this.
>
> Ivor -
> Regarding your comment above, I do not understand your reasoning. In
other
> messages you speak of your concern for "fine tuning" the blade angles, and
> the risk of bending the blades by pugging clay that is too stiff or by
> forcing the plunger in the hopper. So why would you want to run clay that
> is too stiff through the pugmill and then dip it in water and run it
through
> again? As I mentioned in a previous message, when I am preparing to pug
> clay that has become a bit too stiff, I simply cut the clay into
manageable
> pieces with a cutoff wire (I would never try to pug clay that is too stiff
> to slice easily with a cutoff wire), dip the pieces in water, and drop
them
> in the hopper. It takes a bit more time and a bit of plunger pressure for
> the rotating blades to dig into the clay and mix in the water, but then
the
> mill works as it should. With clay of the proper consistency, I still
have
> to use the plunger occasionally. For safety's sake, I made the hopper
> opening on my mill fairly small, and such is the case on most current
> commercially-made pugmills. Thus, when dropping or throwing clay in the
> hopper, it can easily get lodged against the walls, and a bit of plunger
> pressure is needed to push the clay down into the blades. There are no
> absolutes, and there is no pugmill that always self-feeds without plunger
> pressure.
>
> Judging from your comments in another message, it is apparent that there
are
> pugmills out there with under-built blades. My pugmill, built from Harry
> Davis's design, has blades cut from 1/4" steel, and after 25 years of use,
> the blades are still at exactly the same angle as when the machine put
into
> service. So, bending blades has never been an issue for me. We have a
> Bluebird non-de-airing, and a Venco 4" de-airing, and we have never had
any
> problem with bent blades, but I can see how it might be an issue with
other
> pugmills. It's a shame they aren't built a bit heavier.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Vince Pitelka on tue 10 aug 04
> Rather than adding water as you put your clay into the Puggim why not
> put the clay through once to get reasonable sized pugs.Then slice
> these into discs and immerse them in water for a few minutes . Take
> out of the water allow the excess to drain then re pug.
> I am certain you would get a more responsive clay by doing this.
Ivor -
Regarding your comment above, I do not understand your reasoning. In other
messages you speak of your concern for "fine tuning" the blade angles, and
the risk of bending the blades by pugging clay that is too stiff or by
forcing the plunger in the hopper. So why would you want to run clay that
is too stiff through the pugmill and then dip it in water and run it through
again? As I mentioned in a previous message, when I am preparing to pug
clay that has become a bit too stiff, I simply cut the clay into manageable
pieces with a cutoff wire (I would never try to pug clay that is too stiff
to slice easily with a cutoff wire), dip the pieces in water, and drop them
in the hopper. It takes a bit more time and a bit of plunger pressure for
the rotating blades to dig into the clay and mix in the water, but then the
mill works as it should. With clay of the proper consistency, I still have
to use the plunger occasionally. For safety's sake, I made the hopper
opening on my mill fairly small, and such is the case on most current
commercially-made pugmills. Thus, when dropping or throwing clay in the
hopper, it can easily get lodged against the walls, and a bit of plunger
pressure is needed to push the clay down into the blades. There are no
absolutes, and there is no pugmill that always self-feeds without plunger
pressure.
Judging from your comments in another message, it is apparent that there are
pugmills out there with under-built blades. My pugmill, built from Harry
Davis's design, has blades cut from 1/4" steel, and after 25 years of use,
the blades are still at exactly the same angle as when the machine put into
service. So, bending blades has never been an issue for me. We have a
Bluebird non-de-airing, and a Venco 4" de-airing, and we have never had any
problem with bent blades, but I can see how it might be an issue with other
pugmills. It's a shame they aren't built a bit heavier.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Joseph Herbert on tue 10 aug 04
"After calling Highwater it turns out I can have my clay made softer , I
just have to pay more Its worth it."
This seems like a good deal for Highwater, they are adding water weight and
then charging more for less dry clay. Depending on their batch size, you
might expect that they could sell you a batch made to your specs for not too
much over their normal price. If they are charging like it is a big deal
special order, you might consider looking into the cost of having them mix a
body to your specs, clay content, mineral content and water content. If it
is the same price as to just get a little more water, get something you
really want for the money.
Joseph Herbert
Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 11 aug 04
Dear Vince,
We are at cross purposes here. I have not made my ideas clear. I
apologise to you.
I would not dream of putting hard clay into a pug mill. Nor would I
allow students in my care to do this.
I am suggesting the process I outline be used as a way of fine tuning
clay that may be slightly stiffer than needed after the first run
through the mill.
Being an Aussie, I have ever only used Venco. They are robust
machines, but not idiot proof.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 2:47
Subject: Re: Pug mills
> > Rather than adding water as you put your clay into the Puggim why
not
> > put the clay through once to get reasonable sized pugs.Then slice
> > these into discs and immerse them in water for a few minutes .
Take
> > out of the water allow the excess to drain then re pug.
> > I am certain you would get a more responsive clay by doing this.
>
> Ivor -
> Regarding your comment above, I do not understand your reasoning.
In other
> messages you speak of your concern for "fine tuning" the blade
angles, and
> the risk of bending the blades by pugging clay that is too stiff or
by
> forcing the plunger in the hopper. So why would you want to run
clay that
> is too stiff through the pugmill and then dip it in water and run it
through
> again? As I mentioned in a previous message, when I am preparing to
pug
> clay that has become a bit too stiff, I simply cut the clay into
manageable
> pieces with a cutoff wire (I would never try to pug clay that is too
stiff
> to slice easily with a cutoff wire), dip the pieces in water, and
drop them
> in the hopper. It takes a bit more time and a bit of plunger
pressure for
> the rotating blades to dig into the clay and mix in the water, but
then the
> mill works as it should. With clay of the proper consistency, I
still have
> to use the plunger occasionally. For safety's sake, I made the
hopper
> opening on my mill fairly small, and such is the case on most
current
> commercially-made pugmills. Thus, when dropping or throwing clay in
the
> hopper, it can easily get lodged against the walls, and a bit of
plunger
> pressure is needed to push the clay down into the blades. There are
no
> absolutes, and there is no pugmill that always self-feeds without
plunger
> pressure.
>
> Judging from your comments in another message, it is apparent that
there are
> pugmills out there with under-built blades. My pugmill, built from
Harry
> Davis's design, has blades cut from 1/4" steel, and after 25 years
of use,
> the blades are still at exactly the same angle as when the machine
put into
> service. So, bending blades has never been an issue for me. We
have a
> Bluebird non-de-airing, and a Venco 4" de-airing, and we have never
had any
> problem with bent blades, but I can see how it might be an issue
with other
> pugmills. It's a shame they aren't built a bit heavier.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Steve Dalton on thu 12 aug 04
On Friday, August 6, 2004, at 11:38 AM, Julie Moore wrote:
> Hi, new to the list. I was active on it years ago, but have been
> "away"
> for a while. Just wondering how many of you studio potters own pug
> mills? Do you have a solution for getting squirted when adding water
> to
> recycled clay that's gotten too dry?
>
> Thanks for your input,
> Julie
> Dirty Bird Pottery
> www.dirtybirdpottery.com
I've got the 3" de airing venco. I love it. Squirted? I just stand
back
Steve Dalton
Clear Creek Pottery
Snohomish, Wa
clearcreekpottery.com
Woozie on wed 1 sep 04
Well, this is something brand new for this brand "old" lady! My very first
LISTSERV posting! I'm also new to ceramics, tho not as new (lol). As I
transition from a respectable career in environmental protection to my new
life trying to become a potter/ceramist I have two questions (as a
starter): In the "stupid question" category, what is the difference between
pottery and ceramics? In the "practical" category, is there such a thing
as a Peter Pugger that is low volume? Hand cranked, maybe? (sorta a joke,
but maybe not...) I cant see that I will ever need 700#/hour pugged! But
I love the idea of sparing my arthritic old joints.
Sue Beach on sun 18 nov 07
I've finally saved enough $$ that I can buy a pugmill. I am excited.
I plan to spend some time researching before I purchase and will check out
the archives and that article that was in Clay Times a few months ago. I
don't need anything big. I just want a machine that will allow me to
process my reclaim & that will let me soften up the bags of purchased clay.
Any guidance that those with pugmills might give would be appreciated. I
want to make the right choice.
Thanks.
--
Sue Beach
BeachWare Pottery
Muncie, IN
Chuck Wagoner on sun 18 nov 07
Sue,
I like my Bailey (Under 2000.00), but the small Venco and the "Venco =
look
alike" made by Axner are very good too. I would spend a little more and =
get
one of those. You will need 220 volts. I like the Bailey for my school =
since
it is very safe compared to the Bluebird which I would not like to let
students use.
We have two Bluebird 440's at our shop that have been real workhorses =
over
the years, they need to have the de-airing kit rebuilt every two years =
or
so.
=20
=20
Charles Todd Wagoner
North Vermillion Jr./Sr. High School Visual Art Dept.
Billie Creek Village Potter, Rockville, IN
Charter Member "Bald Headed Potters of America"
Home of the Peeler Ceramic Art Film Series "Potters of the USA and =
Japan"
and "Ceramic Methods" now on DVD.
=20
Any guidance that those with pugmills might give would be appreciated. =
I
want to make the right choice.
Paul Herman on sun 18 nov 07
Hi Sue,
I recommend the Peter Pugger brand of pugmill. i have one (VPM 30),
purchased a few years ago, and it has been a great little machine.
Nothing has gone wrong with it, and it gets used regularly for mixing
my own clay body from scratch. It makes wonderful de-aired throwing
clay. They have good technical support and are always ready to help.
So, I am totally satisfied with it.
Best wishes,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://greatbasinpottery.com
On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:06 AM, Sue Beach wrote:
> I've finally saved enough $$ that I can buy a pugmill. I am excited.
>
> I plan to spend some time researching before I purchase and will
> check out
> the archives and that article that was in Clay Times a few months
> ago. I
> don't need anything big. I just want a machine that will allow me to
> process my reclaim & that will let me soften up the bags of
> purchased clay.
>
>
> Any guidance that those with pugmills might give would be
> appreciated. I
> want to make the right choice.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> Sue Beach
> BeachWare Pottery
> Muncie, IN
>
Larry Kruzan on sun 18 nov 07
Hi Sue,
I have owned a Bailey A-400 but currently own and love a Peter Pugger
VPM-60. The A-400 was ok for adjusting clay density and de-aired my
recycled clay ok in small quantities but just was not big enough to handle
more than 50 lbs a day IMHO. Lots of effort for little output - I'd rather
make pots.
The Peter Pugger VPM-60 is nothing short of wonderful. Throw in slop,
scraps, dried pots and flopped pots (around 100 lbs at a time), turn it onto
mix and do something else for a while. Check it in ten or fifteen minutes
and adjust the mix to taste. De-air the entire batch and pug it out. Start
the next batch. Could not be sweeter. The smaller VPM units are great too
but buy the biggest unit you can - you will grow into it.
My studio output more than doubled with changing to the Peter Pugger. I was
spending so much time recycling clay I was losing money trying to make the
most of our cheapest component - clay.
I gained some floor space too. The VPM-60 takes up just about the same
amount of floor space as the Bailey but I was able to eliminate the old
Pizza dough mixer I used for mixing. It was almost as big as the pugmill.
If anybody needs one please contact me I'd love to give a potter a great
deal and get it out of the kiln Shed.
If you are ever in Illinois and want to see how it works give me a call, the
studio is open six days a week.
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Sue Beach
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 10:06 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: [CLAYART] Pug Mills
I've finally saved enough $$ that I can buy a pugmill. I am excited.
I plan to spend some time researching before I purchase and will check out
the archives and that article that was in Clay Times a few months ago. I
don't need anything big. I just want a machine that will allow me to
process my reclaim & that will let me soften up the bags of purchased clay.
Any guidance that those with pugmills might give would be appreciated. I
want to make the right choice.
Thanks.
--
Sue Beach
BeachWare Pottery
Muncie, IN
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
L. P. Skeen on sun 18 nov 07
Sue, Peter Pugger has just come out with what you need - the VPM-9 I =
think it's called. It is designed for the small-time hobbyist potter =
and it's cute as a button to boot. :) http://www.peterpugger.com I =
think is their website, and I betcha if you can wait as long as NCECA, =
you can buy the floor model for a steal. :)
L
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Sue Beach=20
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 11:06 AM
Subject: Pug Mills
I've finally saved enough $$ that I can buy a pugmill. I am excited.
I plan to spend some time researching before I purchase and will check =
out
the archives and that article that was in Clay Times a few months ago. =
I
don't need anything big. I just want a machine that will allow me to
process my reclaim & that will let me soften up the bags of purchased =
clay.
Any guidance that those with pugmills might give would be appreciated. =
I
want to make the right choice.
Thanks.
--
Sue Beach
BeachWare Pottery
Muncie, IN
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change =
your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots2@visi.com
Gail Fullerton on sun 18 nov 07
Up here in Fairbanks Alaska there are 5 Peter Puggers. Everyone who has =
one
loves it, and it seems that everyone who has another brand wishes they ha=
d a
Peter Pugger. It mixes, it reclaims, it, it deairs, it extrudes, it take=
s
clay that has frozen and thawed and turns it into something wonderful. I=
f I
want a really soft clay for extruding by hand I can do that, if I want a =
stiff
clay for slabs I can do that too.
So far none of us has had a problem with our machines, they just keep on
churning out clay.
Gail Fullerton
snow enough for skiing, sledding and mushing, and not too cold
life is good =
____________________________________________________________________
=
Ivor and Olive Lewis on mon 19 nov 07
Dear Sue Beach,=20
My suggestion would be to choose one with "De-airing " capabilities.
If, in your research you could find out the nature, the composition, of =
the gas which is exhausted from clay in the de-airing process I would =
appreciate it if you would share that knowledge with us.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Bruce Girrell on mon 19 nov 07
Lisa Skeen wrote:
>Peter Pugger has just come out with what you need - the VPM-9 I think it's
called.
>It is designed for the small-time hobbyist potter and it's cute as a button
to boot. :)
Awwwwwww... It _is_ cute!
http://www.peterpugger.com/pugmill-extruder/vpm-9-pugmill.html
Bruce Girrell
WJ Seidl on mon 19 nov 07
Yeah, it's an itty bitty thing. You could probably take it home in your
carry-on!
I wonder how it would do at stuffing sausages?
Best,
Wayne Seidl
L. P. Skeen wrote:
> Sue, Peter Pugger has just come out with what you need - the VPM-9 I think it's called. It is designed for the small-time hobbyist potter and it's cute as a button to boot. :) http://www.peterpugger.com I think is their website, and I betcha if you can wait as long as NCECA, you can buy the floor model for a steal. :)
>
> L
>
>
Bruce Girrell on mon 19 nov 07
Sue Beach wrote:
> I don't need anything big. I just want a machine that will allow me to
> process my reclaim & that will let me soften up the bags of purchased
clay.
If you're processing reclaim you may want to consider a mixer/pugger.
Whether or not you decide to include mixing capabilities, make sure that
whatever you get has de-airing capability. No sense spending that much money
on a machine without a vacuum pump.
Since no one has yet demonstrated to me that adding mixing capabilities
along with a pugger adversely affects pugging capability, I lean strongly
toward mixer/puggers. I take it from your comments that you don't mix enough
clay to make a dedicated mixer an option, hence my personal recommendation
would be a mixer/pugger.
Although I have a Peter Pugger and it does well for me, I would also
seriously check out the double auger mixer/pugger from Bailey if I were in
your position. The double auger would do a better job of mixing and also
would absolutely eliminate any chance of "the spinnies"* that annoy us PP
owners. My one concern regarding the Bailey is that I'm simply not convinced
that the vacuum system won't plug up due to its construction and placement
in the machine. I would appreciate it if someone with some experience with
the Bailey machine would comment on it.
Take your time - it's a lot of cash - and I'm sure you will enjoy having a
machine help you with this thankless clay chore.
While I have the floor, let me add one more thing - A pugmill does not
relieve you of the responsibility of checking the clay workability yourself,
either by wedging a small portion by hand or by coning/wheel wedging as you
begin your work. The great advantage of hand wedging is feeling exactly how
the clay moves before you begin to use it. Also, the pugmill auger tends to
leave a particular pattern in the clay that needs to be destroyed, either by
hand wedging or coning, prior to forming something from the clay.
Good luck with your purchase!
Bruce Girrell
*the spinnies - A condition that occurs when the entire batch of clay in the
machine starts rotating as a whole, rather than being churned by the mixing
blades.
Gregory Evans on tue 20 nov 07
Sue,
I have the VPM-9 and love it. Do not let the picture fool you. Its 36"
long and weights 130 lb and solidly constructed.
Bill Merrill on sun 13 sep 09
I just read Vinces statement about pug mills and something came to mind. =
=3D
Some pugmills have a stainless mixing blades and an aluminum barrell. =3D
I wonder what a metallurgist would say about the two metals being used =3D
together. Could that present a problem with the mystery of what seems =3D
to be happening to some clays? The Walker Pugmill was entirely =3D
stainless and never has there been a problem of any kind with the clay.
Dennis Gerasimov on sun 13 sep 09
Bill Merrill wrote:
> I just read Vinces statement about pug mills and something came to mind. =
Some pugmills have a stainless mixing blades and an aluminum barrell. I w=
onder what a metallurgist would say about the two metals being used togethe=
r. Could that present a problem with the mystery of what seems to be happe=
ning to some clays? The Walker Pugmill was entirely stainless and never ha=
s there been a problem of any kind with the clay.
>
Nope, that is not it. Aluminum has a higher electropotential then iron
(+1.3 vs. +0.44), and it has a protective oxide coat. The two does not
make a working galvanic cell easily.
Dennis
James Freeman on sun 13 sep 09
Bill...
I haven't been following this thread closely, but you are likely
correct. The principle you are invoking is called "galvanic
corrosion", and is caused by bringing two dissimilar metals into
contact via an electrolyte. Steel and aluminum certainly react in
this manner. A classic example is the so-called "lasagna battery",
which I experienced firsthand and which caused me to explore this
topic some years ago. When lasagna or other similarly electrolytic
foods are stored in a steel pan covered in aluminum foil, the foil
will corrode through everywhere it touches the food. Since clay could
easily be electrolytic, you could experience precisely the same
effect.
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 4:12 AM, Bill Merrill wrote:
> I just read Vinces statement about pug mills and something came to mind. =
=3D
=3DA0Some pugmills have a stainless mixing blades and an aluminum barrell. =
=3D
=3DA0I wonder what a metallurgist would say about the two metals being used=
t=3D
ogether. =3DA0Could that present a problem with the mystery of what seems t=
o =3D
be happening to some clays? =3DA0The Walker Pugmill was entirely stainless =
an=3D
d never has there been a problem of any kind with the clay.
>
Jess McKenzie on sun 13 sep 09
You have a point, Bill. See Glasstone: Textbook of Physical
Chemistry, or just take a quick look at:
http://www.berridge.com/Preventing%20Electrolysis.pdf
~joan worley and jess mckenzie
Date sent: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 01:12:28 -0700
Send reply to: Bill Merrill
From: Bill Merrill
Subject: Pug Mills
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]
I just read Vinces statement about pug mills and something
came to mind. Some pugmills have a stainless mixing blades
and an aluminum barrell. I wonder what a metallurgist would
say about the two metals being used together. Could that
present a problem with the mystery of what seems to be
happening to some clays? The Walker Pugmill was entirely
stainless and never has there been a problem of any kind with
the clay.
James Freeman on sun 13 sep 09
This is in response to several off list emails seeking clarification
of my statements on galvanic corrosion. I have only a somewhat deeper
than layman's understanding of this principal, but perhaps I left too
much information out of my explanation.
Metals can be classified along a continuum from "noble" through
"base". Noble metals are those that do not oxidize or are highly
resistant to oxidation. Gold is a prime example. Base metals oxidize
(rust) more readily (Yes, I have simplified a bit). In a galvanic
cell (battery), the less noble metal corrodes away while the more
noble metal does so to a lesser extent or not at all. Aluminum is far
less noble than steel, especially stainless steel, so it becomes the
"anode", and is eaten away. This is why the aluminum foil covering
the lasagna gets holes eaten through it while the steel baking pan
does not. Here is a link to a table called a "galvanic series", which
lists various metals in order of descending nobility:
http://www.corrosionsource.com/handbook/galv_series.htm
So, what can be done? Hot water heaters contain what is called a
sacrificial anode. This is a metal rod, usually aluminum but
sometimes magnesium, which is screwed into the tank of the heater such
that it is electrically connected to the tank and immersed in the hot
water. Without this rod, the steel tank would very quickly rust out,
as steel is lower on the nobility scale than whatever material is used
for the heating element. With the aluminum or magnesium rod in place,
corrosion of the steel is arrested, and the rod, which is of far lower
nobility than steel, rusts in it's place. While I am venturing out
beyond my expertise and into the land of informed speculation, so may
very well be proven wrong by someone smart, it seems to me that if one
were to obtain a magnesium sacrificial anode, ground it to the metal
of the pugmill, and insert it into the mass of clay remaining in the
mill after pugging is complete, the magnesium rod, which is of far
less nobility than the aluminum pugmill case, should corrode and leave
the aluminum case undamaged. Of course this would introduce a bit of
magnesium oxide into the clay, but it seems unlikely to hurt anything.
With an all mild steel or all stainless steel pugmill there would not
be any galvanic corrosion, so no prophylactic measures would be
necessary.
Just an idea. Might work.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 4:12 AM, Bill Merrill wrote:
> I just read Vinces statement about pug mills and something came to mind. =
=3D
=3DA0Some pugmills have a stainless mixing blades and an aluminum barrell. =
=3D
=3DA0I wonder what a metallurgist would say about the two metals being used=
t=3D
ogether. =3DA0Could that present a problem with the mystery of what seems t=
o =3D
be happening to some clays? =3DA0The Walker Pugmill was entirely stainless =
an=3D
d never has there been a problem of any kind with the clay.
>
Steve Mills on sun 13 sep 09
As an aside:
In my experience, all Pugmills made in the UK in the last 30 years (or ther=
eabouts) have had cast Aluminium bodies and Polypropylene blades. The shaft=
the blades are stacked on is grooved or hexagonal bright mild steel, and a=
ll are held in place by a large steel nut.
The nut was the only bit that suffered any real corrosion, so we usually re=
placed that with a Brass one (very hard to get!) or a stainless one (pricey=
but worth it).
With a (salvaged) mill I had, the thread on the shaft-end was so corroded =
I drilled through it, and replaced the nut with a fat washer and large spli=
t pin.
It was still going strong when I passed it on a few years back.
I just hand-wedge now....need the exercise!
Steve
Bath
UK
________________________________
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 4:12 AM, Bill Merrill wrote:
> I just read Vinces statement about pug mills and something came to mind. =
Some pugmills have a stainless mixing blades and an aluminum barrell. I w=
onder what a metallurgist would say about the two metals being used togethe=
r. Could that present a problem with the mystery of what seems to be happe=
ning to some clays? The Walker Pugmill was entirely stainless and never ha=
s there been a problem of any kind with the clay.
>
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