rebecca ann yarne on wed 5 feb 97
Hi. I am a student at the University of New Mexico enrolled in a 200
level Ceramics Lab class. For my independent project I wanted to do
research and perform a saggar fire. I have just begun research and am
looking for any information on saggars and/or where a good source for
such information (i.e. books, articles) might be. I am first trying to
find a clay body for the saggar as well as a body for the peice within
the saggar. I have seen a couple of saggar fired peices in the past that
were burnished and had a beautiful orange color in places with black
marks caused by organic material burned in the saggar. I don't know what
kinds of material work well in a saggar to created colored effects or
marks, what firing range, etc.. Basically I know very little. So I
would greatly appreciate any information I can get. Thanks alot.
Rebecca Yarne
Dannon Rhudy on thu 6 feb 97
Rebecca,
You can use a wide variety of materials in your saggar fire.
Prepare your pots for firing by either burnishing or using
terra sigilata and polishing. When you enclose your pot(s) in
the saggar(s) you should include perhaps some hay that has been
soaked in salt water and dried; some dried manure (cattle, horse,
whatever, it doesn't matter much); perhaps a little rock or table
salt; epsom salts; various fruit or vegetable peels; sawdust
(do NOT use sawdust from "treated" lumber!)...there are a lot
of possibilities. Try different things in different saggars,
keep notes. Temperature range depends on preference, I fire
to around 1600 or so, because I want a harder pot. Some fire
MUCH lower because the burnished or polished surface stays
smoother. Clay bodies - well, try a variety. I like porcelain
for saggar fire, it seems to take color so well. But many use
terra cotta and other low-fire clays, and stonewares work too.
Bisque your pots first, or breakage will be very high.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Hi. I am a student at the University of New Mexico enrolled in a
200
level Ceramics Lab class. For my independent project I wanted to
do
research and perform a saggar fire. I have just begun research
and am
looking for any information on saggars and/or where a good source
for
such information
Libby Ware on thu 6 feb 97
Rebecca,
On page 68 of Louise Allison Cort's book "Seto and Mino Ceramics" isbn
0-8248-1437-1 there is a reference to saggers (ogama kilns) mid way
through the third paragraph "...A side opening gave access for stacking,
which was now accomplished for most wares with the use of saggars,
cylindrical lidded containers of high-refractroy clay within which one
or more glazed pieces could be stacked. Rings of clay used beneath the
bases of pots to separate the pieces in a stack or support single pieces
in a saggar are a hallmakr of the ogama..." Page 70 offers a cutaway
view of the saggar and page 71 shows a photo of saggar fragments from an
unsuccessful ogama firing. All this is a way of saying that the
Smithsonian might be a real treasure trove of information on saggars.
As far as claybodies go, we've used 50% Tile6 and 50% alumina for
wadding work that went into wood fire kilns. Don't know if this would
work for making the entire saggar (and it maybe prohibitively expensive)
but it sure does the trick of keeping lids from sticking to mouths and
pots from sticking to shelves.
Hope this information is of some use. Sounds like a great project.
Libby
Karen Gringhuis on thu 6 feb 97
Rebecca - Long ago & faraway at Evanston Art Center, we once filled
a whole kiln (I can hardly believe we really did this) w/ dog
food (dry or wet I do not know- must have been dry). Got some
interesting results. At Alfred, Val Cushing used to have his classes
do food firings - w/ real food fired right on the plates. Amazing.
Both dog food & human food have a fair amt. of chemicals in them.
Good luck. Karen Gringhuis
Michael S Janzen on thu 6 feb 97
Rebecca,
I've dabbled a little in Saggar Firing. The best results were with hand
burnished pots, (terra sigulatta is ok too, but it can peal off). If you
have access to a salt kiln, use salt copper wire, bannana peals and
vermiculite.
Seal the saggar tight and fire to cone one. If you don't already have a
kiln that has been salted DO NOT USE SALT. also don't ever use salt in an
electric kiln. Layer the ingrediants, be liberal with the slat, copper and
peals (be sure they touch the pots) and fill in the rest with the
vermiculite. Use a respirator when handling vermiculite once its fire, it
can get really dusty.
GOOD LUCK!
---Michael Janzen
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>
>Hi. I am a student at the University of New Mexico enrolled in a 200
>level Ceramics Lab class. For my independent project I wanted to do
>research and perform a saggar fire. I have just begun research and am
>looking for any information on saggars and/or where a good source for
>such information (i.e. books, articles) might be. I am first trying to
>find a clay body for the saggar as well as a body for the peice within
>the saggar. I have seen a couple of saggar fired peices in the past that
>were burnished and had a beautiful orange color in places with black
>marks caused by organic material burned in the saggar. I don't know what
>kinds of material work well in a saggar to created colored effects or
>marks, what firing range, etc.. Basically I know very little. So I
>would greatly appreciate any information I can get. Thanks alot.
>
>Rebecca Yarne
JULIE ATWOOD on fri 7 feb 97
I've done a little bit of saggar firing myself, and what we did was put a
layer of sawdust on the bottom of the saggar, and sawdust wherever we
wanted black marks on the pot...and we wrapped our pots in a fine copper
wire, which made pink and green marks, sometimes black, and we also had
seaweed we wrapped around the pot. Someone put rice in there, but I
don't remember how that worked out. Anything organic, try it out...I
don't recommend salt, because with saggar, you can do so many other
things without using salt and still get gorgeous effects.
Have fun!
Julie in Seattle
On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Michael S Janzen wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Rebecca,
>
> I've dabbled a little in Saggar Firing. The best results were with hand
> burnished pots, (terra sigulatta is ok too, but it can peal off). If you
> have access to a salt kiln, use salt copper wire, bannana peals and
> vermiculite.
>
> Seal the saggar tight and fire to cone one. If you don't already have a
> kiln that has been salted DO NOT USE SALT. also don't ever use salt in an
> electric kiln. Layer the ingrediants, be liberal with the slat, copper and
> peals (be sure they touch the pots) and fill in the rest with the
> vermiculite. Use a respirator when handling vermiculite once its fire, it
> can get really dusty.
>
> GOOD LUCK!
> ---Michael Janzen
Vince Pitelka on fri 7 feb 97
>All this is a way of saying that the
>Smithsonian might be a real treasure trove of information on saggars.
Libby -
Louise Cort is certainly one of the world's leading experts on East Asian
ceramics, but the sagger process she refers to is entirely different from
what we often refer to as "saggar firing" in this country. Saggars are as
you describe - refractory reuseable containers in which the wares are fired.
They were discovered circa the Sung Dynasty in China, as a means to protect
the wares from the fly ash and flame flashin of the wood kiln. When we
refer to saggar (or sagger) firing today, we usually use saggars for exactly
the opposit. Since gas kilns burn so cleanly with little or no flame
flashing, wares are often placed in a sagger enclosure with a range of
chemicals and combustible materials to create a more lively surface, usually
on unglazed clay which is often slip-coated and burnished or polished. So
information on the traditional saggar process is not really applicable to
this situation.
Saggar bodies are usually just very refractory bodies which will remain
un-vitrified in the firing. Many people build temporary brick saggars,
others throw or handbuild reuseable ones. If you are saggar firing to 1800,
almost any stoneware body would work well. If you are firing above 2200,
you shold use a very refractory body such as one would use for fire brick -
something like 50-50 fireclay and grog.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@Dekalb.Net
Phone - home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801
Appalachian Center for Crafts
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Carol Ratliff.clayart.CLAYART.MAILING LIST on sat 8 feb 97
Michael,
What does the vermiculite do in a saggar? Do you use shards to help hold the
combustables against the pot? In CA we use seaweed alot in saggars. I had
a terrible experience using greenware once.......years later the customer
brought back a beautiful mural that had disinigrated and looked like layers
of paper swelled up and separating. The best I was able to determine by that
disaster was the salts in the seaweed soaked into the claybody and since this
is a lowfire technique and the clay never comes close to vitrification it
just literaly eats away at the clay changing the composition entirely. I
have since learned to always bisque first.
Carol Ratliff, San Diego
Cynthia Blau on tue 11 feb 97
The recent postings on saggar firing all seem to be about low fire. But
can't these be done in cone 10 gas kilns? When I was first starting out
I took a workshop in Connecticut with Elizabeth MacDonald and I seem to
remember her firing some of our pieces to ^10.
Cynthia Blau
Gracedart on sat 14 mar 98
saggar fire potters...some info from Jane Perryman's book Smokefire Pottery:
Materials to use around and on the bisqued pots inside the saggars:
*"...potassium bichromate, iron chloride and copper sulphate...
* copper carbonate, rock salt...
*manganese, soda ash layered with sand so some areas don't carbonise..."
these were quoted lists of materials used by 3 different potters...
for best results and inspiration..read Jane's book
chuck hackbarth on thu 28 may 98
I have some questions to ask of Dannon Rhudy who described his paper sack
method for saggar firing. Can "old" porcelain casting slip be used for
covering the paper bag? Can this firing be done in an electric kiln? I have
two electric kilns - one much older than the other. Can this process be
used in firing to cone 6? I want to use it for firing outdoor sculpture
which needs to be weather resistant. These pieces are
"rocks" which are self enclosed and have only a few holes in them to allow
for
escape of steam .I have never tried to fire my outdoor gas raku kiln to a
higher temperature
Sally Hackbarth
chsal@execpc.com
Dannon Rhudy on fri 29 may 98
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
......I have some questions to ask of Dannon Rhudy who described
his ....
Make that "her".
....... Can "old" porcelain casting slip be used for
covering the paper bag?.......
I've used porcelain slip, stoneware slip, slips made up, slips
left over - I don't think it matters what slip is used. Just
use enough of it, and make sure the saggar is well sealed.
...... Can this firing be done in an electric kiln?...
I've fired in an old electric kiln - BUT, if the
saggar were not well sealed, then damage to the elements might
occur with the release of fumes from various salts and other
substances- so I don't recommend it. If you have a really old
kiln and you are willing to experiment, then let us know what you
discover. You might spray with ITC, first. The kiln itself
should be fine in terms of temp rise and so on- would take longer
than in a fuel-fired kiln I expect.
...I have
two electric kilns - one much older than the other. Can this
process be used in firing to cone 6?.....
This specific process would not work firing to cone 6. The
saggars would work- I've fired them to cone 10 - but the
combustible materials would all burn out, the colors would all
burn out, the carbon would all burn out, long before you reached
cone 6. I found an old article in CM from sometime around 1989 or
so that dealt with getting similar effects (of low-temp saggar or
pit firing) in a regular gas kiln, firing to cone 8, using
charcoal and soluble salts such as copper sulphate, and without
the use of a saggar of any kind. I don't remember the exact issue
- anyone?
.....I have never tried to fire my outdoor gas raku kiln to a
higher temperature....
Again - cone 6 is not going to work if you are looking for
saggar or pit-fire effects. You could try a low-fire outdoor
claybody - don't know if the salts would hasten decomposition
from weather forces.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
terryh on tue 2 jun 98
------------------
more than a week ago, dannon rhudy =3Cpotter=40koyote.com=3E posted on
saggar firing. so i tried one of many ways she mentioed. a paper bag saggar.
i had a few terra-sig burnished test pieces, some white and some
with red iron oxide stained terra-sig. i stacked them (pots) on
top of another with veggies inserted between. i placed them in a
supermarket paper shopping bag and sorounded them inside the bag
with lots of veggie chippings. those were orange peels, apple
peels, beet peels, green scallions, etc etc from my gourmet (ha)
cookings, stored in a freezer for this trial. then folded the top
of the bag and maskin-taped the fold with one or two strands. i
placed the bag in saw dust and fired as usual (as i do saw dust
firing). the veggies were half frozen when i started firing. that
was the memorial day monday.
i picked up the pieces today (i was out of town). one 15=22 plate
cracked, but had a wonderful red and yellow/orange color on its
otherwise white surface with some gray and deep black shades.
the color was more interesting with the red iron oxide stained
terra-sig pieces. the reddish surface appears more reddish
(enhanced). (sorry, i'm not a man of english words. they just
looked pretty.) this effect was also mentioned, i recallm by pat
hankins and others at the NCECA discussion in dallas.
i didn't take a note nor arranged veggies systematically. so,
i don't know which veggies worked hard for me. could it be
broccoli? was it beet? (i like beet soup.) i'll try to figure out
in future firings. anyway, i'd like to thank dannon for describing
a method of using shopping bag saggar. it worked for me.
terry hagiwara
e-mail: thagiwara=40halnet.com (W)=3B terryh=40pdq.net (H)
web: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/3755
Russel Fouts on wed 3 jun 98
Dannon,
>> This specific process would not work firing to cone 6. The saggars would
work- I've fired them to cone 10 - but the
combustible materials would all burn out, the colors would all burn out, the
carbon would all burn out, long before you reached
cone 6. <<
I'm not sure how John Leach is doing it but he's getting saggar effects
(black and white, blue and white) at temperatures that I think are above ^6.
I know that he's firing his pieces in saggars filled with sawdust but beyond
that, I know nothing except that he considers the pieces fired this way very
special.
Russel (loved your "torn" pots in CM, clever AND beautiful.)
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
32 2 223 02 75
Http://users.skynet.be/russel.fouts
Http://www.japan-net.or.jp/~iwcat
Stairs interlog on thu 4 jun 98
At 08:44 AM 6/3/98 -0400, Russel Fouts wrote:
....
>I'm not sure how John Leach is doing it but he's getting saggar effects
>(black and white, blue and white) at temperatures that I think are above ^6.
>I know that he's firing his pieces in saggars filled with sawdust but beyond
>that, I know nothing except that he considers the pieces fired this way very
>special.
....
He fires in a tightly sealed saggar with a single vent, packed with wood
chips or sawdust up to a separation line. He fires to a high temperature,
I can't remember exactly what. He gets a fumed carbon trap above the
separation line, then a clear band where the carbon has burned out, and
finally a carbon black region which presumably represents the region where
carbon (coke) from the packing has remained until the latter part of the
firing. We talked about it when I met him in Toronto last year, at his
workshop. He wasn't sure about how it came about, and to be frank, I don't
think he was entirely convinced by my explanation.
The fumed region is from the early volatilization (pyrolysis) of the
volatile wood fraction, which must contain most of the flux materials in
the wood. These fluxes make a very light sheen on the ware, and the colour
underneath is black/blue.
The clear region is free of fluxing, and represents the reduction colour of
the clay body. The carbon is not trapped here, and so is lost.
The second (lower) black region is also free of fluxing (!) but has a deep
carbon colour. It seems that the saggar still contains some carbon
material when it is opened, and this corresponds with this region. I guess
that in this region, the carbon concentration is simply too high to burn
out completely, even at high temperatures.
He said that if the saggar was imperfect, much of the carbon would burn
away, and the pots would be uninteresting. This indicates that the saggar
is controlling the oxygen very well, which makes these effects possible.
Of course, John is a consummate craftsman, and his technique is, I'm sure,
impeccable. It could be that the atmospheric control he gets may come from
some other effects as well, such as a particular method of wood firing.
The pots are quite beatiful, collectors' items. However, given the chance,
I bought instead a wicker basketed cider jug. All his work is beautiful.
Gavin
Russel Fouts on fri 5 jun 98
>>Russell, I saw something about Leach's pots, too...think maybe he was
firing them twice, once to higher temp, then smoking...
but in truth, can't remember. Guess I'd better look it up. It is possible,
with some claybodies, to fire quite hard and then smoke them. <<
I was thinking of a reference in Jane Perryman's book on Smoke firing (which
is 6 floors down in my studio) but I also found reference in Karin
Hessenberg's book on Sawdust firing. She points to Joannna Constantinidis,
Byron Temple and John Leach as high temp saggar firers (all to 1300c/^10).
Come think of it I accidentally fired some tests above 1200c and they came
out very black and the sig stayed shiny. We also fired a sagger full of pots
and charcoal to 1200 in a noborigama in Japan that came out smoked.
According to Hessenberg, it depends on how tightly the saggars are closed,
how dense (or not dense) the clay of the saggars and the pots are (Temple's
firing vitrified porcelain) and the amount and type of combustable used.
I'm making some high fire saggers at the moment to start some experimenting
with these methods.
Russel
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
32 2 223 02 75
Http://users.skynet.be/russel.fouts
Http://www.japan-net.or.jp/~iwcat
Judy Weeden on sun 4 apr 99
Sometime when everybody was just leaving for Columbus there was a message
asking for information about saggars. I do not know who it was that asked
the question, so excuse the non-personal response. I am still new to all
these buttons and was just lurking around for a response. But since none
was forthcoming, I will take up what hopefully will become a thread.
Yes, I do high-fire(cone 10) sawdust saggar firing. I fire the saggars in a
gas kiln together with my regular reduction-fired ware. The saggars are
small and hold only one or two pieces. The sawdust I use in the saggars is
hardwood that i retrieve from the local cabinet and furniture makers, the
finer the better. So far I have used only sawdust, no additives. The
colours I get go from black where the pots are completely immersed in
sawdust, to grey in the area sticking out of the sawdust. Between these two
areas there is a beautiful pure white line that happens at the interface
between the burning sawdust and the space above. I can control the position
of this white line by the way I pack the sawdust around the pot. My pots
are made from a porcelain clay body (hence the white line). I expect if one
were to use stoneware, the colours would be quite different. Unlike
low-fired smoked pottery, the clay body here becomes vitrified and holds
water.
I make my own saggers, straight-sided with a good fitting flanged lid.For
some I used mixture of stoneware scraps and saggar clay (half and half
about) with a 30% addition of grog, ground-up soft brick, and sawdust. This
required rubber gloves for throwing. And even at that they didn't survive
more than about 3-4 firings. Now I use a stoneware clay (Healy clay, to my
friends in Alaska) that I dig myself at the foothills of Mount Denali.It
fires to cone 15 and has other endearing properties. But it is hardly
available to most folks. So I suggest you try using a fireclay of some sort
and ading 30% grog,or ground up bricks if you are so inclined. The saggars
need to be fired to maturity before you use them to fire pieces in.
There is a neat little book entitled "Sawdust Firing" by Karin Hessenberg.
It deals mostly with low-fire stuff but there are a few nuts around that do
sawdust at high-fire.
I have a question for anyone that can help me. I am looking for a cone 10
glaze that I can use as a liner in these smoked pots. Any glazes that I
have in my repertoire bubble very badly with all that carbon floating
around in the saggars.
Judy Weeden
weeden@saltspring.com
I.Lewis on tue 6 jul 99
To: Subscribers Clayart clayart=40lsv.uky.edu
From: Ivor Lewis iandol=40pirie.mtx.net.au
Monday, 5 July 1999
Subject: Saggar firing
The query by Antoinette Badenhorst may have already been answered by others =
but
those who are not familiar with the technique may find the following notes
useful.
These notes are based on an article I wrote which was published for crafts
teachers in Artefacts, round about 1982.
First of all. Saggar firing is an old practice of the commercial industrial
potteries. Saggars were used to protect glazed ware from collecting a =
coating of
ash from the coal which was used to fire big bottle kilns. Inside these, the
saggars were stacked in bungs. Many saggars were just rings, tall round =
collars
which sat on round flat plates called saggar bottoms. One of the jobs in the
factory was to be a =22Saggar Makers Bottom Knocker-outer=22, the person who=
beat
out the clay to an even thickness then cut the circle. Earthenware to be =
glost
fired was set on these bottoms on stilts inside the thrown collar. In some =
cases
two or more collars would be stacked on each other for tall pots. Successive
saggars were stacked until the bung was completed. When the apace was filled
with bungs the kiln was fired.
I believe if you search the magazine archives you will find references to =
Saggar
firing, possibly in Pottery in Australia. I was introduced to the idea by a
South Australian TAFE lecturer called John Coulter. John used it as a way of
extending student=92s mind=92s as much as to get pots with unusual =
decoration.
Some specifics.
Clay to use. Reclaimed clay can be used for saggars. Try a stoneware. I =
would
not add sand as a filler, especially if you wish to reuse your saggars, =
could
lead to cracking on reuse due to quartz inversion problems. Fireclay may be =
too
coarse to throw but would slab well. If you don=92t mind working with a =
short
clay, adding extra kaolin to reclaimed clay is the way I would go. If you =
need
more tooth for throwing add molochite or stoneware pitchers (fine crushed =
fired
clay). If you intend to re-use your saggars then they should be made from as
refractory and thermally shock resistant clay that you can make or buy.
Organic materials. This is an ideal way of getting contained controlled
reduction in an electric kiln. How much and which to choose are empirical. =
Be
experimental at first. Charcoal can be used if you are wanting only reduced
effects. Remember that many plants pick up trace elements or sequester =
elements
which might other wise be harmful. Some of the salt bushes and succulents
contain sodium chloride This can cause colour to bleach or migrate in ways =
which
you could not imagine. Dry material can be doped with soluble salts of the
common metallic colorants. Woods which are resinous may cause smoking or =
even
trapped carbon. Fine metallic wires can be draped over pots. As a I said, be
empirical and experimental. One dodge is to make hanging pockets which can =
hold
volatiles. Be careful if you use sodium chloride, common salt, as this can =
have
violent reactions with raw clay. I have had meltdown from overzealous use of
this chemical. Salt can also react with iron residues in a natural clay body
with astounding results. Bright sparkles of haematite crystal on the surface
which brushes away when you touch it.
Sealing. A lid can be sealed on with wad, a mixture of kaolin and silica =
sand or
alumina hydrate, say 50/50. An alternative for hand builders with slab pots =
is
to construct the saggar out of slabs which follow the contours of the work.
Locate additives as construction proceeds.
Ventilation. Allowing that there must be a vent to allow expanding gases to
escape then it can be as enclosed or as open as you wish. Holes or slots can=
be
placed at strategic points to allow selective reoxidation after the organics
have burnt away.
Saggars can be used for raw firings, on unglazed bisque, with ware which is
being glazed, on glazed ware which is being enamelled, perhaps even with in
glaze lustre and Arabian lustre. I had my best results with raw clay using =
salty
organics. Remember that a trial which is not successful at one cone value =
may
give improved results either higher or lower on the cone scale. Above all, =
keep
well documented records with lots of diagrams. It is a method of surface
treatment which can become addictive and gives lots of scope for a lively =
mind.
Every variable can be changed and the combinations are endless. One of those
areas where if you think it you can do it, but you might need to play around=
a
lot to perfect it.
Have fun and all the best. Let us know of success and failure.
Regards for South Oz on a cold bright day.
Ivor Lewis.
Bryan Hannis on tue 6 jul 99
Hi
I would like to learn how to saggar fire, need to know how much sawdust or
other combustables you put around the pot?? What kind of copper you use,
carbonate or sulfate or?? and what other metals you can use, and any other
ideas or items one can use in saggar firing.
Bryan Hannis
'Chapatsu' Rob Uechi on fri 29 oct 99
Are saggars supposed to be bisque fired pieces?
If it were to be used for a sawdust firing, does it have to be covered
with a lid? Would the saggar be placed inside of a kiln during the
firing, or do the pieces get taken out while hot and the sagger is used
for sort of like a raku/post fire reduction?
Alexei
Frank M. Gaydos on sat 30 oct 99
Alexei,
A sagger is literally, a fireclay box which protects ware from flame and
combustion gases and debris during firing. It is possible to stack the boxes
so that the bottom of one is the lid of another and therefore you would not
need 'lids' for every box in the kiln. They can be any shape but some work
better than others.
Another use of sagger boxes is to reverse the process, keeping the offending
smoke and debris in the fireclay box. This is the case when you want to do
controlled experiments using fruit, sawdust, copper wire, doing local
reductions etc and not damage the kiln they are in nor affect other pots in
the kiln too much.
Usually they are placed in the kiln during the entire firing cycle.
They are usually at least bisque and more often than not, high fired. They
do not last too long as they undergo high stress firing after firing. If
they last six firings you are ahead of the game.
As for a sawdust firing, you can use steel trashcans for the same result.
But using a sagger for sawdust firing, the lid acts as a damper to control
the rate of 'burn' which should be very slow.
Hope this helps.
Frank Gaydos
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Are saggars supposed to be bisque fired pieces?
>
> If it were to be used for a sawdust firing, does it have to be covered
> with a lid? Would the saggar be placed inside of a kiln during the
> firing, or do the pieces get taken out while hot and the sagger is used
> for sort of like a raku/post fire reduction?
>
>
> Alexei
>
'Chapatsu' Rob Uechi on sun 31 oct 99
On Sat, 30 Oct 1999, Frank M. Gaydos wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Alexei,
> A sagger is literally, a fireclay box which protects ware from flame and
> combustion gases and debris during firing. It is possible to stack the boxes
> so that the bottom of one is the lid of another and therefore you would not
> need 'lids' for every box in the kiln. They can be any shape but some work
> better than others.
> Another use of sagger boxes is to reverse the process, keeping the offending
> smoke and debris in the fireclay box. This is the case when you want to do
> controlled experiments using fruit, sawdust, copper wire, doing local
> reductions etc and not damage the kiln they are in nor affect other pots in
> the kiln too much.
> Usually they are placed in the kiln during the entire firing cycle.
> They are usually at least bisque and more often than not, high fired. They
> do not last too long as they undergo high stress firing after firing. If
> they last six firings you are ahead of the game.
Are any other of the pieces not inside saggars being glaze fired?
If not, is it bisque fired temperature? Also, are pieces in the saggar
usually glazed? From what I've seen, this doesn't seem to be the case.
> As for a sawdust firing, you can use steel trashcans for the same result.
> But using a sagger for sawdust firing, the lid acts as a damper to control
> the rate of 'burn' which should be very slow.
Are these pieces placed into the trash can while they are hot?
Alexei
Wayne S Bien on tue 21 mar 00
------------------
I am planning to do a saggar firing in an electric kiln. I am going to use a
terra cotta flower pot as my saggar with a kiln shelf as a lid. I will be =
using
pine shavings as my reduction material. My question is how much smoke can I
expect to experience? I will have the peep holes of the kiln closed off and =
will
be firing to cone 015.
I am concerned about the smoke because the kiln is in a recreation center in=
a
small room with no windows and only a small exhaust fan for ventilation.
Wayne Bien
Baltimore, MD
Charlie and Linda Riggs on wed 22 mar 00
My wife and I sagger fire frequently but in a raku gas kiln. I think you will c
lots of smoke. Please be cautious!! Once it starts smoking it'll be hard to st
C
Wayne S Bien wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ------------------
> I am planning to do a saggar firing in an electric kiln. I am going to use a
> terra cotta flower pot as my saggar with a kiln shelf as a lid. I will be usin
> pine shavings as my reduction material. My question is how much smoke can I
> expect to experience? I will have the peep holes of the kiln closed off and wi
> be firing to cone 015.
>
> I am concerned about the smoke because the kiln is in a recreation center in a
> small room with no windows and only a small exhaust fan for ventilation.
>
> Wayne Bien
> Baltimore, MD
Cantello Studios on wed 22 mar 00
I would say way more then you want. The small room will fill with smoke. On
a sagger like this you need to leave one kiln plug out. 015 is very low and
the kiln will get there in no time. Once the smoke leaves the flower pot it
is not doing anything anyway. I would not do this in this type of firing in
this kind of environment, or in a electric kiln for that matter.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On Behalf
Of Wayne S Bien
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:53 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: saggar firing
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
------------------
I am planning to do a saggar firing in an electric kiln. I am going to use a
terra cotta flower pot as my saggar with a kiln shelf as a lid. I will be
using
pine shavings as my reduction material. My question is how much smoke can I
expect to experience? I will have the peep holes of the kiln closed off and
will
be firing to cone 015.
I am concerned about the smoke because the kiln is in a recreation center in
a
small room with no windows and only a small exhaust fan for ventilation.
Wayne Bien
Baltimore, MD
Rod, Marian, and Holly Morris on thu 23 mar 00
I have been contemplating doing the same thing. Can you talk a little more
about the problems that might be encountered when doing this in an electric
kiln. Thanks, Marian in Michigan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cantello Studios"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: saggar firing
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I would say way more then you want. The small room will fill with smoke.
On
> a sagger like this you need to leave one kiln plug out. 015 is very low
and
> the kiln will get there in no time. Once the smoke leaves the flower pot
it
> is not doing anything anyway. I would not do this in this type of firing
in
> this kind of environment, or in a electric kiln for that matter.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On Behalf
> Of Wayne S Bien
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:53 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> Subject: saggar firing
>
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ------------------
> I am planning to do a saggar firing in an electric kiln. I am going to use
a
> terra cotta flower pot as my saggar with a kiln shelf as a lid. I will be
> using
> pine shavings as my reduction material. My question is how much smoke can
I
> expect to experience? I will have the peep holes of the kiln closed off
and
> will
> be firing to cone 015.
>
> I am concerned about the smoke because the kiln is in a recreation center
in
> a
> small room with no windows and only a small exhaust fan for ventilation.
>
> Wayne Bien
> Baltimore, MD
>
Cantello Studios on fri 24 mar 00
Saggers and Electric kilns just don't mix . I'm not saying it won't work it
will the problem here is its very hard on the kiln. The carbon will cut life
out of the elements. Say doing one sagger firing is like doing three or more
firing in that same kiln. You can do it in a raku kiln or any gas kiln ok.
Chris:^)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On Behalf
Of Rod, Marian, and Holly Morris
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 3:14 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: saggar firing
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I have been contemplating doing the same thing. Can you talk a little more
about the problems that might be encountered when doing this in an electric
kiln. Thanks, Marian in Michigan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cantello Studios"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: saggar firing
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I would say way more then you want. The small room will fill with smoke.
On
> a sagger like this you need to leave one kiln plug out. 015 is very low
and
> the kiln will get there in no time. Once the smoke leaves the flower pot
it
> is not doing anything anyway. I would not do this in this type of firing
in
> this kind of environment, or in a electric kiln for that matter.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On Behalf
> Of Wayne S Bien
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:53 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> Subject: saggar firing
>
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ------------------
> I am planning to do a saggar firing in an electric kiln. I am going to use
a
> terra cotta flower pot as my saggar with a kiln shelf as a lid. I will be
> using
> pine shavings as my reduction material. My question is how much smoke can
I
> expect to experience? I will have the peep holes of the kiln closed off
and
> will
> be firing to cone 015.
>
> I am concerned about the smoke because the kiln is in a recreation center
in
> a
> small room with no windows and only a small exhaust fan for ventilation.
>
> Wayne Bien
> Baltimore, MD
>
Rick Monteverde on tue 27 feb 01
Is this done in electric kilns without causing too much wear and tear
on the elements?
- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI
>Tom
>Wheni I did saggar firing I built saggars out of stacked brick in the
>kiln. Though I stacked brick closely
>obviously there was room for some air to circulate into and out of
>saggar.
>Also inside the saggar I placed bisque shards near the pieces in some
>areas, to create pockets that were not filled with
>combustible materials.
>I was after varied effects with regard to flashing and
>reducing/oxidizing effects on the pieces. Allowing some air
>vents, though small ones, worked well for my purposes.
>Stephani Stephenson
>mudmistress@earthlink.net
>
>http://home.earthlink.net/~mudmistress/
>
>and
>
>Alchemie Studio
Stephani Stephenson on tue 27 feb 01
Tom
Wheni I did saggar firing I built saggars out of stacked brick in the
kiln. Though I stacked brick closely
obviously there was room for some air to circulate into and out of
saggar.
Also inside the saggar I placed bisque shards near the pieces in some
areas, to create pockets that were not filled with
combustible materials.
I was after varied effects with regard to flashing and
reducing/oxidizing effects on the pieces. Allowing some air
vents, though small ones, worked well for my purposes.
Stephani Stephenson
mudmistress@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~mudmistress/
and
Alchemie Studio
Joanna Jorgensen on thu 1 aug 02
I have seen examples of saggar fired pieces using thick slip and masking
tape to make designs. The design is created by the tape burning and the
slurry keeps the other spaces from going dark, although they were not
white, a definite contrast and design.
From my understanding the masking tape goes on under the slurry.
I have an example in one of my surface dec. books although I cannot
remember it at the moment. Email me off list and I can copy for you if
you are interested.
Joanna Jorgensen
Coconut Creek, FL
Joanna@iwatcomphax.com
Kathie Johannes on mon 21 jun 04
I have searched the archives and have found very much good information on
how to saggar fire. But I need a few more questions answered if you
might. Can I use a pressure cooker inside my Raku (propane) kiln to
fire my pots in and does it need to be perfectly airtight? Is it
necessary to bisque the pots first.? Have some nice little pots ready to
burnish, so am anxious to try my first saggar firing. Will build a clay
box if I need to.
thanks so much Kathie
Kathie Johannes on tue 22 jun 04
Thanks for the info on the pressure cooker idea, it is an old steel one
and have not cooked in it in years, been using it for one of my raku pots.
really seals good. I am always afraid to ask these questions, as no one
really wants to seem too "You know" I do read alot of books and alot of
the archives, but I don't always find the answers, and I've been so happy
with all of the support I get here. Just one more question for now. Do I
need to bring my heat up slow or can I just put the heat to it? Thanks so
much Kathie
>From: Bruce Girrell
>Reply-To: Clayart
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: saggar firing
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:10:04 -0400
>
> > Can I use a pressure cooker inside my Raku (propane) kiln
>
>Many pressure cookers are made from cast aluminum. The melting point of
>aluminum is only 660 deg C which is well below raku temperatures and very
>near the temperatures used for smoking pots. A stainless steel pressure
>cooker would work, but you would never want to use it again as a pressure
>cooker.
>
>No it does not have to be airtight. Some very nice effects come from
>partial
>oxidation and partial reduction.
>
> > Is it necessary to bisque the pots first.?
>
>Technically, no. But practically, yes. Once fired (no bisque) pottery has a
>longer history, but introduces its own set of challenges. I suggest that
>you
>start with bisqued pots and after achieving some success there try some
>non-bisqued ones. Pay attention to the techniques used by "primitive"
>potters. The pot must be protected from the fire.
>
> > Have some nice little pots ready to
> > burnish,
>
>Keep your bisque temperature and firing temperature low, below cone 010.
>Otherwise you will lose your burnish.
>
>Have fun.
>
>Bruce "what's that you're smoking?" Girrell
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
From ‘will you?’ to ‘I do,’ MSN Life Events is your resource for Getting
Married. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married
Bruce Girrell on tue 22 jun 04
> Can I use a pressure cooker inside my Raku (propane) kiln
Many pressure cookers are made from cast aluminum. The melting point of
aluminum is only 660 deg C which is well below raku temperatures and very
near the temperatures used for smoking pots. A stainless steel pressure
cooker would work, but you would never want to use it again as a pressure
cooker.
No it does not have to be airtight. Some very nice effects come from partial
oxidation and partial reduction.
> Is it necessary to bisque the pots first.?
Technically, no. But practically, yes. Once fired (no bisque) pottery has a
longer history, but introduces its own set of challenges. I suggest that you
start with bisqued pots and after achieving some success there try some
non-bisqued ones. Pay attention to the techniques used by "primitive"
potters. The pot must be protected from the fire.
> Have some nice little pots ready to
> burnish,
Keep your bisque temperature and firing temperature low, below cone 010.
Otherwise you will lose your burnish.
Have fun.
Bruce "what's that you're smoking?" Girrell
steve harrison on fri 25 jun 04
Hi Kathie,
Your container does not need to be air tight.
However if it is made of aluminium it will melt before your pots are
fired.
A biscuit tin or other light weight steel container will be OK for a
once off application.
Best wishes
Steve Harrison
Hot & Sticky Pty Ltd
5 Railway Pde
Balmoral Village
NSW 2571
Australia
http://ian.currie.to/sh/Steve_Harrisons_books.html
On Tuesday, June 22, 2004, at 11:38 AM, Kathie Johannes wrote:
> I have searched the archives and have found very much good
> information on
> how to saggar fire. But I need a few more questions answered if you
> might. Can I use a pressure cooker inside my Raku (propane)
> kiln to
> fire my pots in and does it need to be perfectly airtight? Is it
> necessary to bisque the pots first.? Have some nice little pots
> ready to
> burnish, so am anxious to try my first saggar firing. Will build a
> clay
> box if I need to.
> thanks so much Kathie
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Allyson May on sat 26 may 07
Hey Diane,
I have a Olympic tophat raku kiln which fires with propane. I do saggar =
firing in it all of the time and it works great. I have also done =
saggar firings in homemade garbage can raku kilns and those work great =
also. I use small individually thrown saggars but I think brick, built =
in place, saggars would work as well. I'm careful not to let stuff fall =
down inside the burners but I don't see any damage or residue on the =
bricks after a firing. Hope this helps.
Peace,
Allyson May
Stoney Creek Pottery
Bloomington, IN
Richard Mahaffey on wed 30 sep 09
You can use the seaweed either wet or dry. when I used it I went to the
beach and harvested it and used it before it had a chance to dry. Used tha=
t
way it would tend to flux the clay more where the seaweed was (mostly where
there were two or three layers of seaweed). I was firing around cone 1 and
also at cone 5 or 6 at the time I used seaweed.
You can contact me off the list if you like for detailed answers :
rickmahaffey(AT)comcast.net
Rick
Saggar fired work online at:
http://www.tacomacc.edu/home/rmahaffe/Gallery%20page.htm
Chaeli Sullivan on wed 30 sep 09
Good Mornin' All
Have a question about saggar firing:
If a body were going to use seaweed over a pot during saggaring . . . .
Would the seaweed need to be soaked in water first?
Or just applied dry?
And if soaking the seaweed, are there other solutions to soak it in than wa=
=3D
ter which would give more interesting results?
Thanks for your input and experimental results.
Chae
=3DA0
=3DA0=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Loren JOnes on wed 30 sep 09
The seaweed will have sufficiant salts in it already from the seawater. One=
could soak it or other organics in a salt soloution. We would soak hay in =
salt water and use that. As I recall we would try to dry out the materials =
somewhat before we loaded them into the saggers.Copper sulfate, carbonate a=
lso add interesting results. You can sprinkle a mixture of rock salt and co=
pper carb. in your saggers. Put charcoal brickets in the sagger for dark bl=
ack to grey, bury half of the pot in dense sawdust to get blacks.
Experiment! Have fun. Loren
http://www.lojoclayworks.com
________________________________
From: Chaeli Sullivan
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:05:47 AM
Subject: Re: saggar firing
Good Mornin' All
Have a question about saggar firing:
If a body were going to use seaweed over a pot during saggaring . . . .
Would the seaweed need to be soaked in water first?
Or just applied dry?
And if soaking the seaweed, are there other solutions to soak it in than wa=
ter which would give more interesting results?
Thanks for your input and experimental results.
Chae
Frank Gaydos on thu 1 oct 09
I took a sager firing workshop where they used dry dog food to surround the
work along with powered charcoal. The charcoal gave wonderful blacks and th=
e
dog food contains lots of sulfides and oxides, lending color in random
patterns. I believe they used sawdust soaked in copper sulphate solution
also.
Frank
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Mahaffey"
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 12:56 AM
Subject: Saggar firing
> You can use the seaweed either wet or dry. when I used it I went to the
> beach and harvested it and used it before it had a chance to dry. Used
> that
> way it would tend to flux the clay more where the seaweed was (mostly
> where
> there were two or three layers of seaweed). I was firing around cone 1
> and
> also at cone 5 or 6 at the time I used seaweed.
>
> You can contact me off the list if you like for detailed answers :
> rickmahaffey(AT)comcast.net
> Rick
>
> Saggar fired work online at:
> http://www.tacomacc.edu/home/rmahaffe/Gallery%20page.htm
>
Lauren Bellero on thu 1 oct 09
>Would the seaweed need to be soaked in water first?
>Or just applied dry?
>And if soaking the seaweed, are there other solutions to soak it in than w=
ater
>which would give more interesting results?
hi chae,
the thing about seaweed is it contains salt and
that plus the organic material is the main reason
folks like to use it to saggar/pit fire. salt enhances the
environment for the other chemicals (copper, iron...) to
react. you will likely get many different answers (because there is
never just one way to do something). but here is my 2 cents:
i do a lot of pit firing -- and would LOVE to use just plain old DRY
seaweed. despite my living near the jersey shore, i can't get my hands
on any! instead i use salt soaked straw. i wouldn't re-hydrate
the seaweed and use it wet because your pots may soak in the water
and crack from steam during the firing. slightly damp is ok, but not wet!
best of luck,
lauren
--
Lauren Bellero, Mudslingers Pottery
http://mudslingerspottery.net
Red Bank, NJ
Chaeli Sullivan on wed 7 oct 09
I know this is a bit late, but i wanted to thank all who answered my saggar=
=3D
-firing question.=3DA0 My only excuse for such a late thank you is that i'v=
e =3D
been running both glaze and bisque firings back to back, am exhausted, and =
=3D
just now catching up on emails!=3DA0=3D20
Your answers were all very helpful and are greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Chae
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
jd.steveni@COMCAST.NET on thu 16 feb 12
Always had good luck with small porcelain pots nested in wood chips in lidd=
ed saggars clamped with clay. Using a sang de boeuf glaze. ^8/9 electric wi=
th a long hold probably went to ^10. Yeah, I thought using charcoal to achi=
eve reduction seemed a bit counter-productive.
Dinah
www.dinahsnipessteveni.com
www.dinahsnipessteveni.wordpress.com
www.etsy.com/shop/DinahSnipesSteveni
Ben Morrison on wed 9 may 12
All,
Question, I'm new to saggar firing so I figured I'd ask before trying some =
things out. Has anyone ever tried to fire a piece up to temp and then sagga=
r it at the lower temp afterwards? My guess is because the clay is vitrifie=
d that it would not work, but I figured I'd ask anyway.
Thanks,
Ben
Snail Scott on thu 10 may 12
On May 10, 2012, at 1:14 AM, Ben Morrison wrote:
> ...I'm new to saggar firing so I figured I'd ask before trying some =3D
things out. Has anyone ever tried to fire a piece up to temp and then =3D
saggar it at the lower temp afterwards?...
What is the purpose of the saggar in this scheme?=3D20
A saggar is just a container for the work during firing,=3D20
and can be used to protect the work from 'outside=3D20
influences' like ash, or (more common nowadays)
to keep such contaminants near the work on purpose=3D20
to produce flashing, carbon penetration, and various=3D20
rustic effects.
On the assumption that you are using it to contain=3D20
combustibles or other materials which are intended=3D20
to transfer their carbon and/or color into the clay:
The more vitrified the clay, the less it will absorb=3D20
anything. The 'temp' of your clay, when you say=3D20
'up to temp' is therefore important. Earthenware=3D20
might still be a bit receptive to being saggar-fired=3D20
with such materials even after being fired to maturity,=3D20
but more vitrified clays will not. The color and smoke=3D20
effects (if that is your intent) will not penetrate much=3D20
if at all, and will tend to wipe off.
-Snail=3D
Eva Gallagher on thu 10 may 12
Hi - I tried using stove top clay recipe for Raku - firing it first to cone
8 and then putting it into Raku kiln. Used the stove top recipe for thermal
shock resistant after being vitrified in the first firing. However once rak=
u
fired, the clay just went a mid gray and not black as it could not absorb
the carbon. The glaze reduced OK and the clay was somewhat stronger - this
was for an outside mobile that I hoped would resist cracking if the wind
knocked the pieces together a bit.
Eva Gallagher
Deep River, Ontario
http://newfoundoutpotter.blogspot.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Morrison"
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:14 AM
Subject: Saggar Firing
> All,
>
> Question, I'm new to saggar firing so I figured I'd ask before trying som=
e
> things out. Has anyone ever tried to fire a piece up to temp and then
> saggar it at the lower temp afterwards? My guess is because the clay is
> vitrified that it would not work, but I figured I'd ask anyway.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ben
>
>
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