jonpjon@ibm.net on wed 17 apr 96
Hi everyone,
I went out to shop for some new scales for weighing glaze batches
yesterday because my old platform scale doesn't seem to be as accurate
as when I bought it 15 years ago. I went to some shops downtown that
I used to like so much because they had all kinds of balances,
triple beams, those "libra" scales with hanging pans and those
beautiful sets of weights that come in small boxes, and so many other
"quaint" looking ones.
I was shocked to discover that there were no more balance type
scales,everything was electronic. The prices were out of this world
too.The scale I was looking for to weigh up to 5 kilos or so cost
around 500$.
I always thought balance scales were more accurate than electric
ones.Does this mean I'm getting old? What's the story on state of the
art scales? Does anyone out there still prefer balances?
BTW, has the U.S. adopted the metric system to any degree?
Are you guys using pounds and ounces?
Thanks Jon Pettyjohn Manila jonpjon
Rod Wuetherick on thu 18 apr 96
Well In Calgary, AB they still sell triple beams and I don't imagine they will
quit for a long lomg time.. try looking in a chestry supply store or
a glaze/potting supply store... If not I might be coerced in figuring out a way
that we could get a scale too you!
The cost in Canadian dollars here is approx $250.00 (not including extra weight
set)
Cheers,
Rod Wuetherick
----------
From: jonpjon@ibm.net[SMTP:jonpjon@ibm.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 1996 7:37 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list CLAYART
Subject: Re: scales
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hi everyone,
I went out to shop for some new scales for weighing glaze batches
yesterday because my old platform scale doesn't seem to be as accurate
as when I bought it 15 years ago. I went to some shops downtown that
I used to like so much because they had all kinds of balances,
triple beams, those "libra" scales with hanging pans and those
beautiful sets of weights that come in small boxes, and so many other
"quaint" looking ones.
I was shocked to discover that there were no more balance type
scales,everything was electronic. The prices were out of this world
too.The scale I was looking for to weigh up to 5 kilos or so cost
around 500$.
I always thought balance scales were more accurate than electric
ones.Does this mean I'm getting old? What's the story on state of the
art scales? Does anyone out there still prefer balances?
BTW, has the U.S. adopted the metric system to any degree?
Are you guys using pounds and ounces?
Thanks Jon Pettyjohn Manila jonpjon
Pelly123@aol.com on thu 18 apr 96
For my first 14 tons of clay...many many years ago....I used a 25 lb. baby
scale that I got for $3 at a garage sale....They now sell for about $5 at
garage sale. Formulas are in parts of 100 so you can divide pounds almost as
easily as grams.
My son was working for a restaurant supply store a couple of years back and
they happened to have a double beam scale which he had had on the shelf for
ten years...so he sold it to me for the original price - $50. I still use
the old baby scale to weigh students work coming out of the kiln,. and I have
a small 10 lb scale next to the wheels for production throwing. ( and I feel
very old this year - the pots are just not coming as fast as they used to).
BTW...my son put a rubber roof on this store for the owner and he paid him
with 50 running feet of those beige steel shelves you see in the
supermarkets...what a deal...
Pelly
Richard J.Mahaffey on fri 19 apr 96
Hi all,
I bought a fruit and produce scale at a garage sale for weighing glaze batches.
It was incomplete, lacking the hanger and the pan, so I used rope and a metal
hoop form a fiber drum and hung a jar that I filled with water to zero the
scale.
It worked great and I never had to count 500 gram scoops of feldspar again.
The dust in my glaze mixing room is less too, because I was not pouring
materials so many times. In a 22 lb. batch (10,000 gram) any errors were
negligeble.
Of course this is unsuitalbe for tests, as well as, most colorants.
BTW I found an electronic scale in the Tokushima equavalent of the Goodwill!
Cost $250.00, so keep your eyes peeled!!
Happy hunting,
Rick Mahaffey
Naruto Japan where the rain is doing dirt to the last of the cherry blossoms.
:(
Dan Johnston on sat 20 apr 96
To all:
I know this sounds silly, but check your local law enforcement agency.
Often times HIGH quality scales are confiscated during drug busts and are
sold for next to nothing at police or sheriff auctions. Most of the public
are only interested in the cars or guns and not many care about the scales.
Who knows, you might find a great deal even in a small town.
Dan Johnston
Tahlequah, OK
DLJ57@aol.com
Susan Wagener on fri 17 oct 97
I'm just starting the process of making my own glazes. I too was
frustrated when I first took pottery lessons because there was zero time
spent on the technique of glazing and I have been self taught asking
questions of friends along the way. I recently took a class on how to make
glazes (which is another e-mail subject) and am ready to get the equipment
to begin this process.
My question is: I'm either going to buy an Ohaus Triple Beam Balance or an
Ohaus Electronic Balance. Does anyone have an opinion as to which one is
better and is there a reason I shouldn't buy an electronic one?
Thank you in advance for your advice!
Susan Wagener
Puffin Pottery
Bloomington, IN
Where the leaves are changing color and fall has finally arrived!
June Perry on sat 18 oct 97
Dear Susan:
I think the big difference is time. It takes a long time, comparatively, to
weight out a glaze batch using a triple balance beam. You have to wait for
the beam to balance and it takes forever. I have been using one of these for
25 years and I dont' know why I've waited this long to buy a digital scale,
which should be arriving in the next day or two, I've been assured! :-)
On the digital scales I considered, you get a two or three second readout
time. That is quite a big difference in time compared to the long wait for a
triple beam scale to balance. So if you intend to do a lot of glaze testing,
as I do, then I would definitely recommened getting a good precision digital
scale.
Regards,
June
Dan C Tarro on sun 19 oct 97
I would buy the digital scale, but some advice when you do get it, use a
surge protector on it. I am in process of replacing a $500 Duran digital
scale because I didn't and the pole just outside my studio got hit by
lightning. The only thing that went was the scale and two alarm clocks.
If you plan on using it only for mixing small batches, get one that is
accurate to .1 gram, if it's for larger batches and weighing clay for
throwing, accurate to 1 gram will do and a larger capacity of 5# or more.
Large batches would be chemicals in weights over 50 grams or so. At this
point the error window is large enough to cover.
What I usually do on large batches is to weigh the larger items on the 5#
scale and the smaller ones (cobalt oxide...) on the old 100 gram balance
scale I have from the dark ages..it works. that's about all I can say
about it.
Good luck,
Dan Tarro
Oak Tree Stoneware
Ham Lake, Mn.
Nice to be done with my fair season and back on the list
Paul Bush on fri 26 jun 98
Around Portland, triple beam gram scales go for $150 and up, not
including the extra weight set and scoops. Several questions:
Does anyone have a used scale for sale?
Will a digital gram scale designed for kitchen use work for glaze
formulation?
Any ideas on where to buy a less expensive triple beam scale?
If you like, contact me direct at: paulbush@sprintmail.com
Thanks,
Paul Bush
Portland, OR
mel jacobson on fri 5 nov 99
not to diminish using a good triple beam scale....but, i have
converted most of my regular glazes to pounds and man, that
is easy.
use a good old grocery scale...and it seems to be just as good
as a triple beam.
for accurate measuring of a new glaze, or fussy glaze, well then
i use the beam...have had it for 40 years. ron roy and vince just
shutter at using grocery scales....goes against their training.
but, for every day...pounds.
i made up my shino glaze at vince's place...used pounds. found the
old scale they use for weighing balls of clay...set the tar, measured.
bam, shino.
i glazed two pots for the empty bowls project...one from my shino, one
from the school shino...fired them....could not tell the difference...just the
same. the firing to a great deal to make them the same.
hell, when in dubai we used sea shells and coffee cans to measure glaze.
as long as we used the same sea shell and coffee cans, the glaze was the
same....percentage is a wonderful idea....it does not always mean triple beam
grams.
think about it.
mel.mn
sometimes we have to be potters, not engineers. i have seen people
pee their pants measuring glaze...and the pots to be glazed were just
awful...oxymoron.
red and orange shino is heaven, afro de z ack.
http://www.pclink.com/melpots
from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
Cindy Strnad, Earthen Vessels Pottery on fri 5 nov 99
Mel,
Thank you. I use a grocery store scale, too. Well, a hardware
store scale--paid $35 for it, and I thought it was okay until I started
reading all these posts about scales. I have a triple-beam scale which I use
for tests and for weighing things like cobalt, but I weigh the EPK and
silica and things on the hardware store scale, and it's always seemed to
work. I do like using metric (pounds and ounces and stuff confuse me), and
my scale has both an English and a metric reading, so that works, too.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
Custer, SD
Ron Roy on sat 6 nov 99
Not so - I use a pound scale to weigh all my batch glazes. It has two
weighing platforms - one goes to 40 Lbs. and the other to 8 lbs. - this
very handy because you can divide or multiply by 8 using the different
scales on the beam.
As long as you use the gram scale to check the accuracy of any scale there
is no reason to not use any kind - so long as it is a balance and not a
spring scale.
Mel is right in that some glazes are more tolerant of inaccurate weighing -
it will be advisable to know which are your sensitive glazes - before
finding out the hard way.
RR
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>for accurate measuring of a new glaze, or fussy glaze, well then
>i use the beam...have had it for 40 years. ron roy and vince just
>shutter at using grocery scales....goes against their training.
>but, for every day...pounds.
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
Evan Dresel on sun 7 nov 99
I couldn't agree more. The key to being a good chemist isn't so much
knowing how to do things super-accurately but knowing when to do things
super accurately. Usually I say it the other way around... "A good
chemist is one who knows when to be sloppy." Doesn't matter if you are
talking biochemistry, geochemistry, or glaze chemistry.
Not that pounds are sloppy, just quaint and antiquated. If you want a
good bargain on a digital scale you can get a U.S. grocery scale for
less than a comparable metric scale. Personally I wouldn't stoop so
low. I weigh most of my glazes by adding the ingredients to the same
bucket on the scale. I think I raise a lot less dust adding it all to
the water at once and I can put a lid on and dry mix the ingredients --
no bentonite globs. But the thought of adding those ounces together
makes me gag. Makes sea-shells sound appealing.
-- Evan in W. Richland WA where the desert is starting to get winter
rain. Hope it's snowing like heck in the mountains. Ski now, irrigate
later.
mel jacobson wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> not to diminish using a good triple beam scale....but, i have
> converted most of my regular glazes to pounds and man, that
> is easy.
> use a good old grocery scale...and it seems to be just as good
> as a triple beam.
>
> for accurate measuring of a new glaze, or fussy glaze, well then
> i use the beam...have had it for 40 years. ron roy and vince just
> shutter at using grocery scales....goes against their training.
> but, for every day...pounds.
>
> i made up my shino glaze at vince's place...used pounds. found the
> old scale they use for weighing balls of clay...set the tar, measured.
> bam, shino.
> i glazed two pots for the empty bowls project...one from my shino, one
> from the school shino...fired them....could not tell the difference...just the
> same. the firing to a great deal to make them the same.
>
> hell, when in dubai we used sea shells and coffee cans to measure glaze.
> as long as we used the same sea shell and coffee cans, the glaze was the
> same....percentage is a wonderful idea....it does not always mean triple beam
> grams.
> think about it.
> mel.mn
> sometimes we have to be potters, not engineers. i have seen people
> pee their pants measuring glaze...and the pots to be glazed were just
> awful...oxymoron.
> red and orange shino is heaven, afro de z ack.
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
Hank Murrow on sun 7 nov 99
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>not to diminish using a good triple beam scale....but, i have
>converted most of my regular glazes to pounds and man, that
>is easy.
>use a good old grocery scale...and it seems to be just as good
>as a triple beam.
>
>for accurate measuring of a new glaze, or fussy glaze, well then
>i use the beam...have had it for 40 years. ron roy and vince just
>shutter at using grocery scales....goes against their training.
>but, for every day...pounds.
>http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
Dear Folk; While at Anderson Ranch '70-'73, I used a dairy scale (for
weighing milk)which Brad Reed had discovered. It measured up to 60# and the
dial was marked in #s and tenths of #s! Means you can weigh out large
batches of glaze without converting to #s & Ozs. Very Cool, and a real time
saver. A decimal # scale. See if your local weights and measures emporium
lists them. Ours were cheap at around $30. Hang it from a rafter and have
fun. Hank in Eugene
Pancioli on sun 7 nov 99
Did anyone suggest digital scales for weighing glaze?
We use one and like it very much.
Diana
Bruce Girrell on mon 8 nov 99
Our own Ron Roy stated:
> As long as you use the gram scale to check the accuracy of any scale there
> is no reason to not use any kind...
Ron,
I'm a little surprised at this statement coming from you. Gram scales are
not inherently more accurate than any other kind. You can measure accurately
in any system, provided that the equipment is up to the task.
The big advantage of gram scales is the ease of use. We think in base ten
numbers and metric scales are built on base ten numbers. This makes it
exceedingly easy to scale a recipe up or down. While I appreciate the ease
of use because I'm lazy, the real advantage has to do with a reduced
likelihood of error. When you have to throw in correction factors - nice
convenient numbers that you can handle in your head, like 453.4 - to convert
to a different measurement system you take a chance of introducing an error.
But then, I know that you know that. So maybe your statement was just the
Canadian way of saying, "As long as you use a known accurate scale to check
the accuracy of your scale there is no reason to not use any kind."
Bruce "I feel better now" Girrell
Cindy Strnad on tue 19 sep 00
Hi Everybody.
I thought this might be of help to someone out there . . . I went =
through the archives and found this address: www.balances.com , and =
ordered a digital scale for 73.95 plus 8.00 shipping and handling (U.S. =
funds). For anyone who hasn't been pricing scales recently, that's a =
very good deal. My ancient school-surplus balance has been suffering a =
bit of vertigo lately, so I thought I should replace it.
I got a Tanita 1144-110, which weighs up to 1000 grams in 1 gram =
increments and has a tare function. Quite adequate for test batches and =
small amounts of stuff you want to be particularly accurate with, like =
cobalt, for example. It's supposed to be splash and humidity proof. I =
don't know whether it's dust proof. I'd never heard of Tanita, but they =
do carry O'haus as well, for similar prices, if a known brand is =
important to you. The Tanita just looked more like what I wanted.
This scale is advertised as being excellent for weighing food portions =
for dieters. Geez! Talk about anal. Don't use it to weigh your =
food--weighing green beans in 1 gram increments is psychotic. Just use =
it for glazes.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
www.earthenvesselssd.com
dneese on mon 27 oct 03
As a scale for measuring clay for throwing, I came across a used digital
postage scale, free. It measures in pounds and ounces. I had been using a
cheap platform scale for years and could barely get close in duplicating
weights for throwing certain items. This postage scale nails it down to the
ounce. So if I am wanting 1 and 3/4 pound for a bowl, I can make all of the
days throwing weights the same. Then if you have a guide for the size of
each bowl you are throwing to it becomes so easy to make sets or duplicates.
I suggest looking for scales like these from office liquidators, going out
of business sales. They are a great asset in the studio.
Dale Tex
"across the alley from the Alamo"
San Antonio, Texas USA
Lee Love on tue 28 oct 03
I use a metric bath scale for measuring glaze batches and clay at these
weights. Accurate enough when you are not worried about 10ths of a gram.
Kathie Wheater on tue 28 oct 03
HEY JOHN R.!
Try Ebay. I got my O'Haus 760 with weights and small seives for a very
reasonable price. I have seen the grocery scales that hang and others
that might suite your puposes.
I was out your way 10/10 w/the tribe looking at properties on the
other side of the mountain there. sent you email don't know if you
received it. Let me know off list how you're doing.
Best,
KathieW
in transition
B. Lev on thu 11 mar 04
You may want to check out ebay. I purchased a triple beam Ohaus for @ =
$25. and they always seem to have some listed. Some nicer than others... =
good luck=20
bev
Bonnie Staffel on fri 12 mar 04
I have had the same O'haus scales since the beginning of time. It was one
of my major purchases when I first started back in the early 50's. However,
now since I weigh out big batches of materials, it just didn't fulfill my
needs and created a chance of an error.
When traveling in the Upper Peninsula one fall, we stopped at Ishpeming.
Roaming the town, we saw an A&P Grocery Store with a "going out of business"
sign. We went in and they had a butcher's scale for sale for $50. Bells
went off in my head, perfect for weighing out large batches. So we brought
it home and used it for a long time. However, I had to translate grams into
Pounds and Ounces. My non-mathematical brain was able to figure that one
out.
But after moving it and my equipment around the country so often, I sold it
to a potter friend in NC. Now I have an antique balance scale which I think
might have been used in a hardware store. It is NOT accurate in many ways,
but with weighing out such large batches, it was close enough. I still use
my O'Haus for small batches but for someone buying a new one, I would advise
getting the kind with the large bowl/pan with the additional weights.
Regards, Bonnie Staffel
http://pws.chartermi.net/~bstaffel/default.html
http://www.vasefinder.com/
Hank Murrow on fri 12 mar 04
On Mar 12, 2004, at 6:59 AM, Bonnie Staffel wrote:
> When traveling in the Upper Peninsula one fall, we stopped at
> Ishpeming.
> Roaming the town, we saw an A&P Grocery Store with a "going out of
> business"
> sign. We went in and they had a butcher's scale for sale for $50.
> Bells
> went off in my head, perfect for weighing out large batches. So we
> brought
> it home and used it for a long time. However, I had to translate
> grams into
> Pounds and Ounces. My non-mathematical brain was able to figure that
> one
> out.
Or if one is challenged in the arts of conversion.....one might pick up
a 30 or 60# dairy scale.......these read in #s and tenths of #s,
rendering conversion totally unnecessary, and they hang from your
ceiling so you can get a bucket underneath, nice tare adjustment too.
Just zero it out with your empty bucket and go directly from your
recipe or fraction of 100. Add each material into the bucket carefully
so you don't go over, been doing it this way for 5 gallon batches and
up for 35 years.
Cheers, Hank
Pat Southwood on sat 13 mar 04
Hi List
Nice to be back,=20
Triple beam scales are definiatly the proper tool for the job. They are =
a piece of elegant design.
Digital scales ? Does'nt feel comfy. Go for the tbs.
I have to confess to collecting old scales, I think they are a really =
good example of design history relating to need. I have a greengrocers =
scales , with a big shovel as the pan. I use this to weigh out clay.
My best buy was a post office set of scales.=20
They are way cool.
Best.
Pat.
Deborah Thuman on tue 25 oct 11
I missed it if someone else said this already. There's a reason I
prefer digital. I have old eyes. I don't know why I have old eyes, I'm
nowhere near enough to have old eyes. Still, I've been in bifocals for
17 years now.
Digital I can see. Little lines are tough for me to see. I have to
crouch down, tilt my head back and try to see the lines. That's why I
bought a digital pyrometer rather than analog. No use using a tool if
I can't see what the tool is telling me. A tool should make things
easier not more difficult.
Use what works best for you.
Deb Thuman
http://debthumansblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=3D5888059
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Deb-Thumans-Art-Page/167529715986
| |
|
