Mo Cain on sun 20 apr 97
Opinions please. Now that I am beginning to sell a few pieces the
thought occurs that they should be identified. how does one identify
oneself? A discrete potters mark like a chinese chop or just a plain old
signature? If the latter how is it applied? An Feo wash brushed on
before firing or a fibre tipped pen after glazing? Does anyone make
metal stamps for impressing wet clay?
tia mocain
Kenneth D Westfall on mon 21 apr 97
The use of a metal stamps seems a bit too much. Why not just make your
own stamp out of clay and bisque it for use on damp pots? I still sign
every piece with FeO2 on the bottom or side ( as dictated by the piece),
but others use oxide pens ( like Axner et al have) or scribe their name
or mark into the wet clay. I still like the whole name, but it does take
more time and slow down the process. It's up to you... how do you feel
when you pick up a pot that has the artist's name written on it? Do you
feel any differently about a pot that has a mark?
Good luck.
Kenneth D. Westfall
Pine Hill Pottery
potter-ken@juno.com
Don't get stuck in the mud pies K&T
Claudia O Driscoll on tue 22 apr 97
To mark my pots, I use a rubber stamp that I had made at a local printer's
shop. It is my signature all right, but easy to apply and nice looking. I
always like the potter's signature or mark on any pot I buy.
claudia (claudiao@clackamas.cc.or.us)
Debbie Raschella on tue 22 apr 97
At 10:56 AM 4/21/97 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>The use of a metal stamps seems a bit too much. Why not just make your
>own stamp out of clay and bisque it for use on damp pots? I still sign
>every piece with FeO2 on the bottom or side ( as dictated by the piece),
>but others use oxide pens ( like Axner et al have) or scribe their name
>or mark into the wet clay. I still like the whole name, but it does take
>more time and slow down the process. It's up to you... how do you feel
>when you pick up a pot that has the artist's name written on it? Do you
>feel any differently about a pot that has a mark?
>Good luck.
>
>Kenneth D. Westfall
Ken, I agree with you. I much prefer seeing the potter's signature written
on the piece, and the fact that is does take more time makes it mean even
more. I feel a connection with the piece when I see the artist's name on it
whereas a stamp or no mark at all feels a little more impersonal to me.
This is all just personal preference of course, but it makes me sign each
piece made. I use cobalt ox instead of FeO2, but whatever works!
happy potting!
Debbie
>
******************
Debbie Raschella *
27 Va. St. *
Keyser, WV 26726 *
304-788-0753 *
******************
stevemills on tue 22 apr 97
In message <335A07AF.549A@bellsouth.net>, Mo Cain
writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Opinions please. Now that I am beginning to sell a few pieces the
>thought occurs that they should be identified. how does one identify
>oneself? A discrete potters mark like a chinese chop or just a plain old
>signature? If the latter how is it applied? An Feo wash brushed on
>before firing or a fibre tipped pen after glazing? Does anyone make
>metal stamps for impressing wet clay?
>
>tia mocain
make an individual stamp out of clay and bisc it it will last for ages,
and it won't stick to the clay like metal will.
Steve
--
Steve Mills
@Bath Potters Supplies
Dorset Close
Bath
BA2 3RF
UK
Tel:(44) (0)1225 337046
Fax:(44) (0)1225 462712
Clayphil on sat 26 apr 97
Hi all,
I both scribing my signature and year into leatherhard pieces after
trimming and using a clay chop/stamp with a stylized version of my
initials. Does'nt take any real time at all. Why?, you ask. On larger
ware, I've room to both sign and stamp. On small ware, just the stamp. I
like my identity to be associated with the pieces I make; pride of
craftsmanship and all that. Whether or not it adds anything aesthetically
or economically or otherwise to the piece, isn't my concern. Phil
Carole Rishel on wed 24 sep 97
Well, I've looked in aol to find this signature option and couldn't find it.
Anyone know where it is?
Carole Rishel
Bastrop, TX
CaroleER@aol.com (I just type this in everytime!)
Sheryl VanVleck on thu 25 sep 97
AOL doesn't have it at this time. I asked. But, they are taking it into
consideration... Famous last words
Sheryl VanVleck
Evansville, Wyoming
Pammyam on sat 27 sep 97
Signatures can be done on AOL through Newsgroups.
I've sent two posts about it, but none of them seem to
make it to the Clayart postings. It's in Newsgroup/Preferences,
but you have to post through Newsgroups rather than email, as
far as I can tell.
=======
See, here's a signature.
Pam
Dannon Rhudy on wed 10 dec 97
If y'all keep being so quarrelsome about signatures, whether to
have them, how to have them, and where to put them,
you will only get bundles of switches and/or lumps of coal in your
Christmas stockings.
S. Claus, dba
potter@koyote.com
Ron Roy on sat 13 dec 97
You forgot to put a date on it Santa.
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>If y'all keep being so quarrelsome about signatures, whether to
>have them, how to have them, and where to put them,
>you will only get bundles of switches and/or lumps of coal in your
>Christmas stockings.
>
>S. Claus, dba
>potter@koyote.com
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough,Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings, call 416 439 2621
Fax, 416 438 7849
Studio: 416-752-7862.
Email ronroy@astral.magic.ca
Home page http://digitalfire.com/education/people/ronroy.htm
mel jacobson on mon 12 jun 00
i have used a method of using a variety of stamps
on the bottom of my pots. whenever i start a new
series, or even do a workshop in a distant place i
use a different stamp. (used a japanese `yaki` stamp
this month in tennessee.)
by stamping the stamp in a book using ink, date it,
describe the series, clay etc you will have a life long
archive of your pots.
kurt just changes the way he signs WILD, he may underline it,
make a long D, or use a combo of upper and lower case letters.
this method lends a more artistic and subtle way of keeping
track of your work. it also impresses the hell out of people
when you go in their home twenty years later, pick up a pot and tell them...
`oh, i did that pot at pigeon lake in 1973`....
`now gladys, how the hell did he know that?`
1. i only used that stamp at pigeon lake.
2. we salted in 73 in the new kiln.
3. the stamp was on sideways.
easy.
mel/mn
code is good thing.
FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
Alisa and Claus Clausen on tue 13 jun 00
I stopped dating my pots when I moved to Denmark. Do not why, just =
stopped.
BUT, the signature tells the story. I use my full name on exhibition =
pieces, Big A, Big C.
On ordinary functional ware I sign only Alisa with a little a. This I =
began after year 2000,. because it seemed like the century of lower of =
case to me. =20
On pots that I feel really, really good about, but still purely for =
function, I sign with Big A. =20
On orders for clubs or such,(talk about giant mugs, you should see that =
monsters I made for
the city's "middle ages club", called "stob"- at least a liter) I sign =
only Pot Shop. On pots that I think are really boarder line
I sign only AC. Gives me general, but definite for my own purposes, =
archive.
Most of my undergraduate pots have a fish with a sort of dinosaur back, =
because I was goint through a=20
dinosaur kind of stage then. They are fun to see when I see them at =
relatives or friends.
Who knows what the future signatures will be.
Best regards,
Alisa in Denmark=20
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: mel jacobson
Til: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Dato: 12. juni 2000 14:10
Emne: signatures
>i have used a method of using a variety of stamps
>on the bottom of my pots. whenever i start a new
>series, or even do a workshop in a distant place i
>use a different stamp. (used a japanese `yaki` stamp
>this month in tennessee.)
>
>by stamping the stamp in a book using ink, date it,
>describe the series, clay etc you will have a life long
>archive of your pots.
>
>kurt just changes the way he signs WILD, he may underline it,
>make a long D, or use a combo of upper and lower case letters.
>
>this method lends a more artistic and subtle way of keeping
>track of your work. it also impresses the hell out of people
>when you go in their home twenty years later, pick up a pot and tell =
them...
>`oh, i did that pot at pigeon lake in 1973`....
>`now gladys, how the hell did he know that?`
>1. i only used that stamp at pigeon lake.
>2. we salted in 73 in the new kiln.
>3. the stamp was on sideways.
>easy.
>mel/mn
>code is good thing.
>
>
>FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
>http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>
>________________________________________________________________________=
______
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots@pclink.com.
Marianne Lombardo on mon 29 jan 01
Often, when I read through messages in the Clayart list, I find myself =
wondering where the person writing lives. Not their specific address, =
but it would be nice to know if they are in the USA or Canada, and what =
city. If a web site exists, that would also be great to see in a =
signature line. Just a thought...
Marianne Lombardo
R.R.#2
Omemee, Ontario, Canada, K0L 2W0
(near Peterborough)
telephone: 705-799-7250
email: mlombardo@nexicom.net
evan on sat 10 feb 01
There was a pretty good painter from Holland a while ago who signed his
paintings "Vincent".
-- Evan who thinks you all should sign in whatever way feels best to
you. Maybe that means what best reflects how you see yourself. None of
the best pots I own have a legible signature. Many weren't ever signed
or stamped.
Gail Dapogny wrote:
>
> There is just something more professional about using one's last name (or
> whole name) as a signature. For me, the impact of a woman using only her
> first name is somehow that she doesn't take herself very seriously. I
> don't mean this at all personally; it's not directed at anyone in
> particular, merely that that's the message or impression that comes
> through. Incidentally, I have never heard of a man using his first name as
> a signature.
> ----Gail
Larry Phillips on sat 10 feb 01
Gail Dapogny wrote:
>
> There is just something more professional about using one's last name (or
> whole name) as a signature. For me, the impact of a woman using only her
> first name is somehow that she doesn't take herself very seriously. I
> don't mean this at all personally; it's not directed at anyone in
> particular, merely that that's the message or impression that comes
> through. Incidentally, I have never heard of a man using his first name as
> a signature.
Well, I do, and so does a friend who makes a living doing pottery that
has some of the most amazing brushwork. I know of several others who do
the same. I don't expect to be able to read the signature anyway, but I
do expect to be able to recognize it again when I see it, so it doesn't
matter a bit whether it's first name, last name, both, a nom de pot, or
the name of his favourite cat.
--
Procrastinate now!
http://24.113.44.106/larry/
Dai Scott on sat 10 feb 01
Gail, you're right. That little 3-letter name does look pretty
insignificant. I've decided to use a bold angled stroke under it to give it
some "oomph" and a little more importance! :) Please excuse me, I'm having
a little fun here! I hope it doesn't come off as being too flippant. I
read your post to my husband and said maybe I should start signing both
names, and he wondered why I should change, when I've been potting 25 years
under the name "Dai". You are right about men never using their given
names---we couldn't think of one single guy potter who only signed his first
name. BUT.....by the same token, guys tend to keep their names all their
life, so it's kind of like comparing apples to oranges. I think if I had
started potting before I ever married, I'd have used my birth, or even my
stepfather's surname, and probably would have kept it throughout my career,
regardless of married names. I like Cindy's idea of inventing a name---like
the old-time movie stars! On a final note: I definitely do not take myself
seriously, but I do take my work seriously.
Dai in Kelowna, wasting time dreaming up a new name.
potterybydai@home.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gail Dapogny"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 3:55 PM
Subject: Signatures
> There is just something more professional about using one's last name (or
> whole name) as a signature. For me, the impact of a woman using only her
> first name is somehow that she doesn't take herself very seriously. I
> don't mean this at all personally; it's not directed at anyone in
> particular, merely that that's the message or impression that comes
> through. Incidentally, I have never heard of a man using his first name
as
> a signature.
> ----Gail
>
>
> Gail Dapogny
> 1154 Olden Road
> Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
> (734) 665-9816
> gdapogny@umich.edu
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Gail Dapogny on sat 10 feb 01
There is just something more professional about using one's last name (or
whole name) as a signature. For me, the impact of a woman using only her
first name is somehow that she doesn't take herself very seriously. I
don't mean this at all personally; it's not directed at anyone in
particular, merely that that's the message or impression that comes
through. Incidentally, I have never heard of a man using his first name as
a signature.
----Gail
Gail Dapogny
1154 Olden Road
Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
(734) 665-9816
gdapogny@umich.edu
Joyce Lee on sun 11 feb 01
Gail said:
> There is just something more professional about using one's last name
(or
> whole name) as a signature. For me, the impact of a woman using only her
> first name is somehow that she doesn't take herself very seriously. I
> don't mean this at all personally; it's not directed at anyone in
> particular, merely that that's the message or impression that comes
> through. Incidentally, I have never heard of a man using his first name as
> a signature.
I mean no disrespect to Gail, nor to men, nor to women.... but......
I'm not sure why the above quote bothers me. I'm very much a woman of my
generation with all the baggage that may imply, and am pleased to have
lived and be living through so many exciting developments in the lives
of us all ... but there's something about defining what I choose to do
..... how I opt to sign my pots ... by first considering what a man ...
any generic man ... might do that disturbs me (and I adore the men in my
life!). I can't imagine the MEN on our List pointing out that they've
never heard of a WOMAN using her first name as a signature, when
declaring the lack of professionalism in using first names only. I was
leaning toward first&last names in my signature because I, too, am
beginning to think that just Joyce is a bit immature for such a wrinkly,
aged person ... maybe Just Joyce would do the trick! No, sounds too
contrived. And first name, Meunier, is too difficult for most ... and
last name, Lee, sounds like a first name ........ hmmmm any ideas?
Thank you.
Joyce
In the Mojave taking all that styrofoam, plastic, boxes, bubblewrap to
the dump as soon as it gets light ... whatta mess! Saw the few squirrels
that dart about our scrub acreage messing around it ... want it out of
here before they get choked!
Lee & Kevin Daniels on sun 11 feb 01
>On 2/10 Gail wrote:
Incidentally, I have never heard of a man using his first name as a
signature.
----------------
Hi Gail
What about Vincent (Van Gogh) and Pablo (Picasso)?
Lee in Seattle, happy to have an all-purpose, generic-type name.
Milton Markey on sun 11 feb 01
Hi Everybody!
In lieu of my last name, I use a trademark, the carat (not exactly a "^", but
my own version of a carat, which looks more like a "7"), which I associate
with positive energy and gusto. I also assign and brush on a number, to
identify the piece. The date (month/year the ware was created) follows the
carat and number. Generally, I use light-colored underglazes applied with a
pointed brush to mark my wares, usually on the bottom of the piece.
In the case of darker clay bodies, I use a sharp pointy instrument (most
often a 6-penny nail), to incise the trademark, number, and date.
Best wishes!
Milton NakedClay@AOL.COM
Wow! Two nasty earthquakes in one day, all from the mountain top that is nary
20 miles uphill from where I sit.
Rebecca Gregory on sun 11 feb 01
I have to finally reply to this name thread. Before I got married, I start
wondering if I would have identity issues being that my name would change.
I did decide though to continue signing my maiden name to my pottery.
Let me tell you this story though, when I was a sophomore in college, my dad
called me to tell me that he and my brother were changing their last name to
my great grandparents' last name, Kirk, and he wanted to know if I wanted to
change mine as well. Free of cost to me being that he was changing his so
he would spend the money for me, my brother, and him to change it all at the
same time. I replied, "but everyone remembers my last name now, and they
wouldn't remember Kirk. I will marry someday, and there is no point of
changing my name now just to have it change in a few years." Well, it was 7
or 8 years before I got married, and there are millions of Gregorys in this
world, but if you saw my maiden name on the bottom of a pot, there is no way
in this world that you would forget it.
My maiden name is...GLASSCOCK! It is pronounced EXACTLY how it is spelled!
No dropped syllables like "scow" in place of the "ck" at the end.
Sincerely:
Becky Glasscock Gregory
Nashville, Tn
Ps tell me which one you are more likely to remember Huh? The one that
brings a wild image to your head or the one that sounds like someone's first
name!
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Janet Kaiser on sun 11 feb 01
I quite agree with Gail, but it applies to
everyone - whether male or female.
It does not really matter if you are making work
for your own edification or to trade around the
family, but as a SERIOUS maker or artist you not
only have to take the important convention of
signing into account, you have to think of
posterity too.
You know - that fickle creature known as "Fame"
everyone chases?
Just think of the famous Dave... The slave
potter who we would all love to know more about
years later. If only he had been allowed to use
his own name, we would know where he was
originally from, follow his career, find
reference to him in slave sales both in Africa
and the New World. All sorts of interesting
information could be unearthed, if only we knew
what his name really was.
If a pot is signed Dave today, how many others
are doing the same? What distinguishes one Dave
from the next? How famous could you possibly
become if you don't take your own name
seriously? If you don't, no one else will. Be
certain that the knock-on effect in the art
world, is that your work will not be taken
seriously either...
And what will future owners, collectors, art
historians, potters, galleries and museums know
or be able to research about your and your work?
Even less than about the original Dave,
especially now there are six billion people
around the world.
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
> Gail Dapogny wrote:
> >
> > There is just something more professional
about using one's last name (or
> > whole name) as a signature.
Maid O'Mud Pottery on sun 11 feb 01
"more professional"? That struck me as weird. By what standards? Just because men
don't (usually) sign with 1st names, does that mean it should impact on what women
choose to do?
I have always been called Sam. It's not my legal or birth name. A loving
nick-named assigned after the death of a beloved great-grandfather. Apparently I
reminded my mother of her late grandfather. I sign my pots "Sam" in huge script
from one side of the pot to the other. If the pot is bigger than a small mug,
"Maid O'Mud, CANADA" also appears underneath my sig.
I've had 3 surnames since birth. I was glad to be rid of my long and cumbersome
maiden name; and tossed away my 1st husband's surname in favour of the man I have
now been been married to for 17 years.
"Sam" fits me. It's like "Cher". I am Sam - Sam I am. Yes I like green eggs and
ham.
Don't let anyone tell you that there is a right and wrong, better or worse way to
sign your pots. There are no absolutes in clay bodies, styles, glazes,
application, kiln types or signatures. Do as you feel comfortable. I heard a lot
of "rules" when I was learning clay. Thankfully I spend most of my learning time
alone in my studio between workshops, and was able to sift the wheat from the
chaff.
my 0.02.
Gail Dapogny wrote:
> There is just something more professional about using one's last name (or
> whole name) as a signature. For me, the impact of a woman using only her
> first name is somehow that she doesn't take herself very seriously. I
> don't mean this at all personally; it's not directed at anyone in
> particular, merely that that's the message or impression that comes
> through. Incidentally, I have never heard of a man using his first name as
> a signature.
> ----Gail
--
Sam, Maid O'Mud Pottery
SW Ontario CANADA
http://www.geocities.com/paris/3110
scuttell@odyssey.on.ca
"First, the clay told me what to do
Then, I told the clay what to do
Now; we co-operate"
sam, 1994
"Effort does not always equal output"
sam, 1999
Gayle Bair on sun 11 feb 01
Joyce-
Get your boxes packed with popcorn
packing material.
Then when the wind blows your pals
in the desert will have a treat and you
don't have to clean your desert.
Frankly I don't care how you sign
your work just as long as you don't
sign it K-Mart or Wal-Mart.
First name, last name, initials
who cares! Only an expert forger could
copy your handwriting especially
the lefties (now don't get your knickers
in a twist... I'm ambidextrous!)
Gayle Bair- on Bainbridge Island WA thinking
maybe a fingerprint for a signature might be fun!
Gail said:
> There is just something more professional about using one's last name
(or
> whole name) as a signature. For me, the impact of a woman using only her
> first name is somehow that she doesn't take herself very seriously. I
> don't mean this at all personally; it's not directed at anyone in
> particular, merely that that's the message or impression that comes
> through. Incidentally, I have never heard of a man using his first name
as
> a signature.
Joyce wrote>
I mean no disrespect to Gail, nor to men, nor to women.... but......
I'm not sure why the above quote bothers me. I'm very much a woman of my
generation with all the baggage that may imply, and am pleased to have
lived and be living through so many exciting developments in the lives
of us all ... but there's something about defining what I choose to do
..... how I opt to sign my pots ... by first considering what a man ...
any generic man ... might do that disturbs me (and I adore the men in my
life!). I can't imagine the MEN on our List pointing out that they've
never heard of a WOMAN using her first name as a signature, when
declaring the lack of professionalism in using first names only. I was
leaning toward first&last names in my signature because I, too, am
beginning to think that just Joyce is a bit immature for such a wrinkly,
aged person ... maybe Just Joyce would do the trick! No, sounds too
contrived. And first name, Meunier, is too difficult for most ... and
last name, Lee, sounds like a first name ........ hmmmm any ideas?
Thank you.
Joyce
In the Mojave taking all that styrofoam, plastic, boxes, bubblewrap to
the dump as soon as it gets light ... whatta mess! Saw the few squirrels
that dart about our scrub acreage messing around it ... want it out of
here before they get choked!
Cat Jarosz on sun 11 feb 01
Hi there y'all.... was not going to add my .02 cents worth and have
actually been using the delete key for most of this subject but I got to
thinking about first and last names and had not seen this peculiarity written
about yet ( I may have deleted it ) so here goes .... What I do for
signage on my work is if I have the time and space I put both names if not
I just use the nick name I was given.... on some items that have 2 pieces
I will sign one with my first and one with my last name.... Sometimes
its just the mood I'm in when I chose to write the full name space
allowing ... I have a pretty easy nick name and married last name but
wish I had used my maiden name from the first and not because I think my
marriage of 23 yrs will end but just because it is a name no one can ever
take away from me or say it doesnt belong ... not to mention it would
have been a hoot with my nickname if it hadnt been americanized from Mauex
pronounced ( May - you ) to Mayo I"d have been the cat May -you >
^..^< the end Cat Jarosz
Lynspots@AOL.COM on sun 11 feb 01
<generation with all the baggage that may imply, and am pleased to have
lived and be living through so many exciting developments in the lives
of us all ... but there's something about defining what I choose to do
..... how I opt to sign my pots ... by first considering what a man ...
any generic man ... might do that disturbs me (and I adore the men in my
life!). I can't imagine the MEN on our List pointing out that they've
never heard of a WOMAN using her first name as a signature, when
declaring the lack of professionalism in using first names only.>>
Interesting slant on signatures by Joyce. I had just been deleting the posts
as we had covered to sign or not to sign quite a while ago. Now we are
discussing what men or women do and what may be politically correct for some.
My angle is that, being the lazy person I am, I shorten my first name to lyn,
lower case, in script. It's so quick and easy. I will admit I did decide not
to use my last name at the beginning as I wanted this to be identified as
made by lyn, not an extension of Paul Antone, my husband. Made sense to me
over 30 years ago as my piece of rebellion. Took all kinds of flack from my
mother, "you always hated the way your name was spelled."
Yes, I have the same baggage as Joyce, but mostly I'm just lazy. And by
writing my name in script, I can add little marks to the loop in the "y" to
indicate the date made, for my information later. Right now I put a line
through the y and a little dot next to it to indicate 01 or 2001. Works for
me. I also have a bisque stamp I use on every pot towards the bottom, a small
dragonfly, as another form of identification. People really like to see it.
Lynne Antone
Beaver Creek Arts
Olympia WA USA
Gail Dapogny on sun 11 feb 01
Yeah...I know what you mean, Joyce. I hesitated to add that bit about men
in for the same reason, and I do absolutely agree with you that we don't
want to define ourselves or our actions by what a man would do. And I will
add that "how I sign my pots" was not "by FIRST considering what a man
might do." Mentioning that bit about men was actually something that
occurred to me as an afterthought. It does not define how or what I do.
And I'm sorry I didn't clarify that.
However...all that said, it is nevertheless food for thought.
And I will say again that, while I am a fairly casual person--nevertheless
a first name signature sounds to me like the woman is not taking herself
seriously. That's still my reaction every time. But, do note -- anyone
reading this-- that it is only my opinion and my personal reaction,
certainly not a factual statement.
I remember when I made the decision -- quite intuitively and without much
hard thinking--to sign Dapogny instead of Gail, I felt inexplicably as
though I had moved into a new personal arena. Maybe I'm just really
impressionable!
---Gail
P.S. I think Lee sounds fine!
>I mean no disrespect to Gail, nor to men, nor to women.... but......
>
>I'm not sure why the above quote bothers me. I'm very much a woman of my
>generation with all the baggage that may imply, and am pleased to have
>lived and be living through so many exciting developments in the lives
>of us all ... but there's something about defining what I choose to do
>.... how I opt to sign my pots ... by first considering what a man ...
>any generic man ... might do that disturbs me (and I adore the men in my
>life!). I can't imagine the MEN on our List pointing out that they've
>never heard of a WOMAN using her first name as a signature, when
>declaring the lack of professionalism in using first names only. I was
>leaning toward first&last names in my signature because I, too, am
>beginning to think that just Joyce is a bit immature for such a wrinkly,
>aged person ... maybe Just Joyce would do the trick! No, sounds too
>contrived. And first name, Meunier, is too difficult for most ... and
>last name, Lee, sounds like a first name ........ hmmmm any ideas?
>Thank you.
>
>Joyce
>In the Mojave taking all that styrofoam, plastic, boxes, bubblewrap to
>the dump as soon as it gets light ... whatta mess! Saw the few squirrels
>that dart about our scrub acreage messing around it ... want it out of
>here before they get choked!
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Joyce Lee on sun 11 feb 01
A potter friend to whom I forwarded the posts from this thread suggested
that I use "Mrs. Lee" since that's how I was known forever by the folks
in our desert. Some still have difficulty saying "Joyce." That, of
course, came from the distance between me and many of the other
townspeople ... distance created by the formal circumstances of my job.
My friends and co-workers, of course, didn't refer to me by "Mrs." nor
did an occasional brave senior student.... nor did I, for that matter.
At graduation there was always at least one group of kids who'd yell
very loudly, "goodbye JOYCE" before they'd excitedly rush to hug me,
almost knocking me over in the crush.
My friend also suggested MJL since that's how I signed all my mean
memos. I think I like MJL best... or MJLee. Seems to me that Mrs. Lee
would only have meaning locally, and to a select few thousand, many of
whom have moved on .... some to your towns. Today it would seem perhaps
more like a joke. What do you think?
Joyce
In the Mojave getting rambunctious because the Mayor is returning ... my
chores will be completed soon ... but with mixed emotions because I'll
miss those private posts ... especially from the lurkers who NEVER post
to Clayart. What a privilege that has been.
Ann Brink on sun 11 feb 01
Joyce Lee wrote:
> My friend also suggested MJL since that's how I signed all my mean
> memos. I think I like MJL best... or MJLee. Seems to me that Mrs. Lee
> would only have meaning locally, and to a select few thousand, many of
> whom have moved on .... some to your towns. Today it would seem perhaps
> more like a joke. What do you think?
How about printing "Joyce" and then and a vertical "Le" over the last
"e" ? That would look unique, and indicate to future pot-bottom examiners
that "A woman made this pot".
Or, how about "Joyce" and make a little stamp that says "in the Mojave".
As for what I do- I use my middle fingernail to scratch "Ann" in a
particular way. As someone else said, it doesn't have to be the only
(name), it just has to look unique. When I painted, years ago, I only used
the first name as well.
Ann Brink in CA--glad to be back after a week's absence. By the way, the
top URL is the home page I have been working on for a while. I'm thinking
of it as a trial run, because there is so much to learn, like how to get it
to work right with Netscape, for instance-sorry!
http://www.impulse.net/~billann>
http://milkywayceramics.com/cgallery/abrink.htm>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Philip Poburka on sun 11 feb 01
Dear Joyce,
....had this thought,
'emJayel' (being, of course, m.j.l.,or M.J.L.)
Or just 'Jayel'...
Such Pottery as I have thrown, I had signed with a Cyrillic 'P',
and that is what had occurred to me to 'do' when I was just beginning...that
was my decision at the time.
I haven't thought to change it...seems alright to me.
Names are often too long...though symbols seem good too...
Had a friend YEARS ago...George Overton...he signed his pots 'G'
with the word 'Ton' beneath it...being 'G' over 'Ton'.
I liked that.
Phil
------Original Message------
From: Joyce Lee
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: February 11, 2001 6:39:05 PM GMT
Subject: signatures
A potter friend to whom I forwarded the posts from this thread suggested
that I use "Mrs. Lee" since that's how I was known forever by the folks
in our desert. Some still have difficulty saying "Joyce." That, of
course, came from the distance between me and many of the other
townspeople ... distance created by the formal circumstances of my job.
My friends and co-workers, of course, didn't refer to me by "Mrs." nor
did an occasional brave senior student.... nor did I, for that matter.
At graduation there was always at least one group of kids who'd yell
very loudly, "goodbye JOYCE" before they'd excitedly rush to hug me,
almost knocking me over in the crush.
My friend also suggested MJL since that's how I signed all my mean
memos. I think I like MJL best... or MJLee. Seems to me that Mrs. Lee
would only have meaning locally, and to a select few thousand, many of
whom have moved on .... some to your towns. Today it would seem perhaps
more like a joke. What do you think?
Joyce
In the Mojave getting rambunctious because the Mayor is returning ... my
chores will be completed soon ... but with mixed emotions because I'll
miss those private posts ... especially from the lurkers who NEVER post
to Clayart. What a privilege that has been.
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
STVC on sun 11 feb 01
I agree with the thrust of Larry Phillips post. Find your distinctive mark,
whatever that may be.
My signature is cuneiform script of my initials, "S.T.V.C.". Since my clay
body is full of big grog, dragging a tool through it, or trying to make a
smooth impression is not practical. The signature is created from
impressions of a small wooden stylus. I've tried stamps, but with the
stylus I feel less like an assembly worker and more like I'm connected to
those ancient clay tablet/tile makers...
S.T.V.C.
Steven Thomas Van Cleave--> who may lack the character required to make a
decent signature...
Vista, CA
Snail Scott on sun 11 feb 01
At 06:16 AM 2/11/01 -0800, you wrote:
.... and
>last name, Lee, sounds like a first name ........ hmmmm any ideas?
>Thank you.
>
>Joyce
>From me? no! Even when I sign both names,
most people assume that 'Scott' is the
given name, and Snail the surname! I get
reams of junk mail to "Mr. Scott Snail.
(It makes it very easy to sort - straight
to the 'circular file'.)
Sign it any damn way you like! If people
actually care, they'll keep it straight;
if they don't care, why accomodate them?
-Snail
p.s. maybe I'll start moonlighting as a
potter - Pots by Scott!
Cindy Strnad on sun 11 feb 01
I used to sign my name with a spear and my initials (in western brand
configuration), but pottery isn't very warlike, is it? It started out
because I do a lot of NA themed work, and I had a scratch on the bottom of a
pot that looked like a spear. So I took the suggestion of my pot and signed
that way for a long time.
Then I saw a petroglyph of a hand that I really liked and thought, well, a
hand print--handmade work--and I like this. So I modified it to suit my own
particular taste and started using that with my initials. But the initials
didn't look right beside the hand print, so I started leaving them off. This
is my "mark". Historically, many potters have signed with nothing but a
mark, so there's precedent, even if I and my customers *can* read.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
WHew536674@CS.COM on sun 11 feb 01
Joyce, et all married women,
If your first name is difficult, and your last name sounds like a first name,
did you ever think of signing by your maiden name? I sign all my pots with
my maiden name, I guess because it's an unusual name, Kirstoffy, I've lived
with it all my life, and I keep thinking that some college friends may run
across it in some way, and they would know who it was, whereas if I used my
married name, which has changed twice anyway, they wouldn't recognize it. My
maiden name is with me all my life, sometimes married names come and go. HA
Joyce A
Andre Beaulieu on sun 11 feb 01
Joyce Lee wrote:
> I mean no disrespect to Gail, nor to men, nor to women.... but......
>
> I'm not sure why the above quote bothers me. I'm very much a woman of my
> generation with all the baggage that may imply, and am pleased to have
> lived and be living through so many exciting developments in the lives
> of us all ... but there's something about defining what I choose to do
> .... how I opt to sign my pots ... by first considering what a man ...
> any generic man ... might do that disturbs me (and I adore the men in my
> life!). I can't imagine the MEN on our List pointing out that they've
> never heard of a WOMAN using her first name as a signature, when
> declaring the lack of professionalism in using first names only. I was
> leaning toward first&last names in my signature because I, too, am
> beginning to think that just Joyce is a bit immature for such a wrinkly,
> aged person ... maybe Just Joyce would do the trick! No, sounds too
> contrived. And first name, Meunier, is too difficult for most ... and
> last name, Lee, sounds like a first name ........ hmmmm any ideas?
> Thank you.
>
>
>
>
> there is only one '' Joyce of Mojave''
andre beaulieu
Penni Stoddart on mon 12 feb 01
As others have said before me, I wasn't going to get in on this but now want
to put in my $0.02.
My name is Penelope Stoddart, I go by Penni. My business name is Penelope's
Pots. I sign all my work and have done so since I started potting 5 years
ago by making the stright line of the P and then continuing the round top to
make an S that kind of hangs from the P. It works for me. Lately with larger
better pieces I have written the rest of my name (penelope) from the P. I
don't like that as much as just the simple PS combo thing. I don't really
know why, I just do. I guess it is because the PS is uniquely me and that is
really all that matters (I think) with the whole signature thing.
Thanks for listening to my 2 (possibly 5) cents worth.
Penni
in icy cold London Ontario hoping a warm snap comes again soon!
Snail Scott on mon 12 feb 01
At 02:08 PM 2/12/01 -0800, you wrote:
>the Unknown Craftsman. A lost ideal...
>
Good riddance!
-Snail
Gail Dapogny on mon 12 feb 01
Lynne,
I love the idea of your dragonfly. How did you technically transfer
something like that to a bisque stamp? Or--sigh--did you just carve it?
---Gail
> I also have a bisque stamp I use on every pot towards the bottom, a small
>dragonfly, as another form of identification. People really like to see it.
>
>Lynne Antone
>Beaver Creek Arts
>Olympia WA USA
>
MaryBeth Bishop on mon 12 feb 01
Well now. This should get something started:
This name/signature discussion has gotten me thinking. Our first names are
the most uniquely ours...in our culture. Surnames are generally father's
names/husband's names. I generally sign initials...lazy as my name is long
but now you've got me wondering... I was gone a few days. Maybe you already
went through this. If so, apologies.
Mary Beth....Bishop?
Durham. No major ice here so far. Some on the deck. Fingers crossed for
luck.
Milton Markey on mon 12 feb 01
In a message dated 2/11/2001 11:15:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Joycelee@iwvisp.com writes:
> My friend also suggested MJL since that's how I signed all my mean
> memos. I think I like MJL best... or MJLee. Seems to me that Mrs. Lee
> would only have meaning locally, and to a select few thousand, many of
> whom have moved on .... some to your towns. Today it would seem perhaps
> more like a joke. What do you think?
>
>
Hi Joyce!
I suggest using MJL. Also, find a shape or symbol that you like, and either
add that to MJL, or use it alone. "Mrs.." "Ms." etc., sound much too formal.
I recall I was surprized by an acquaintance of mine, who called me "Mr.
Markey." For some reason, I thought my Dad was in the room with me! I guess I
surpassed middle age to earn that title.
Best wishes!
Milton (not "Mr. Markey," thank you)
Snow in Yucca Valley. Slushy, as it melts as soon as it hits the still-warm
ground. Sunny over there at Goat Mountain (3 miles to the East).
Gayle Bair on mon 12 feb 01
Yikes! An X-Rated Signature!->
I'll not forget it soon!
It's gonna take me days to get
those images out of my head!!!!-O
Many years ago my husband asked me
to design a card for his business
I included my personal favorite for
Bair Associates...... "Bair Ass.".
I really liked it and was disappointed
when he rejected it!
Gayle Bair- Bainbridge Island WA
Rebecca wrote>
My maiden name is...GLASSCOCK! It is pronounced EXACTLY how it is spelled!
No dropped syllables like "scow" in place of the "ck" at the end.
Sincerely:
Becky Glasscock Gregory
Nashville, Tn
j e motzkin on mon 12 feb 01
Joyce Lee wrote:
I was
leaning toward first&last names in my signature because
I, too, am
beginning to think that just Joyce is a bit immature for
such a wrinkly,
aged person ... maybe Just Joyce would do the trick! No,
sounds too
contrived. And first name, Meunier, is too difficult for
most ... and
last name, Lee, sounds like a first name ........ hmmmm
any ideas?
In the end it seems to me that the idea is to sign your
work in a way that truly identifies you. So someone with
a common first name might choose to avoid it, common last
name, same thing. In Joyce's case, these two short names
together would be clear.
I kept my own last name, very uncommon,(was my father's,
the patriarchy won here) when i married because my clay
career was in mid swing and it seemed best not to change
names. Luckily, I studied chinese and have a chinese name
which i had made into a chop in 1975 in Shanghai and have
impressed on the side of my pieces, in conjunction with
my scrawled signature for these 26 years. It does seem
that when on occasion i miss signing something, the first
person to look at the piece in question notices and
remarks and sometimes chooses to buy a signed one
instead. Leaves me thinking that it is important to
people that we are identified. So whatever happened to
the Unknown Craftsman. A lost ideal...
As a person interested in the world of clay, I have the
habit of turning a pot over to check for the maker. i
like finding an old friend signed there.
Judy
www.motzkin.com
=====
__________________________________________________
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Larry Phillips on tue 13 feb 01
Milton Markey wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/12/2001, Gayle writes:
>
>> Get your boxes packed with popcorn
>> packing material.
>> Then when the wind blows your pals
>> in the desert will have a treat and you
>> don't have to clean your desert.
>
> I don't recommend this, since packing popcorn is made of styrofoam, and it
> may choke any one of many desert birds (such as roadrunners and desert quail)
> and other critters out here.
You don't suppose, since she unequivocally stated that 'your pals in the
desert will have a treat', that she actually meant, dare I say it.. REAL
POPCORN? Maybe... just maybe.
Sheesh!
--
Procrastinate now!
http://24.113.44.106/larry/
Milton Markey on tue 13 feb 01
In a message dated 2/12/2001, Gayle writes:
> Get your boxes packed with popcorn
> packing material.
> Then when the wind blows your pals
> in the desert will have a treat and you
> don't have to clean your desert.
>
>
Gayle,
I don't recommend this, since packing popcorn is made of styrofoam, and it
may choke any one of many desert birds (such as roadrunners and desert quail)
and other critters out here. And it's a pain to clean styrofoam peanuts off
the cholla cactus!
Best wishes!
Milton NakedClay@AOL.COM
Yucca Valley, CA In the midst of a Mojave Desert rainstorm.
Lynne Antone on wed 14 feb 01
<I love the idea of your dragonfly. How did you technically transfer
something like that to a bisque stamp? Or--sigh--did you just carve it?
---Gail
>>
Gail and all,
The dragonfly stamp I use is very small, maybe half an inch total. I didn't
carve it, I used small coils and balls of clay to make the dragonfly and
attached them to the end of a larger coil of clay. I wanted it more rounded
than I thought I could get with carving.
I bisqued it and I was in business. Then, some time later, thinking that I
could someday lose or break the stamp, I made negative images on a small slab
of clay with the same stamp. After I bisqued that, I pressed a couple of coil
ends into the neg. images and had some extra stamps, just in case. They are a
little smaller, but that doesn't make any difference to me.
And remember, they don't have to be fancy. I was looking for a stylized
version of a dragonfly for my stamp, no legs, eyes, etc., because most of the
time, they fill up with glaze anyway.
Lynne Antone
Beaver Creek Arts
Olympia WA USA
Gayle Bair on wed 14 feb 01
Hi Milton,
I probably was not clear in my meaning...
I meant that real popcorn should be used.
I have actually seen real popcorn used as
packing material. I thought it was a great idea.
Personally, I detest the Styrofoam stuff!
Gayle
Milton wrote>
Gayle,
I don't recommend this, since packing popcorn is made of styrofoam, and it
may choke any one of many desert birds (such as roadrunners and desert
quail)
and other critters out here. And it's a pain to clean styrofoam peanuts off
the cholla cactus!
Best wishes!
Milton NakedClay@AOL.COM
Yucca Valley, CA In the midst of a Mojave Desert rainstorm.
Dannon Rhudy on wed 14 feb 01
>You don't suppose, since she unequivocally stated that 'your pals in the
>desert will have a treat', that she actually meant, dare I say it.. REAL
>POPCORN?....
I know several potters who ship their wares packed in real popcorn.
It's cheap and very effective. They use air-poppers to make it, keep
it in big plastic bags in packing room.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Tommy Humphries on sat 30 jun 01
Since many of us potters equate the making of a pot to communicating our
feelings and thoughts, much like a letter to a friend, It makes sense to
sign the pot, as much as it does to sign a letter. The friend who receives
a letter from you will undoubtedly know right off that you sent the letter,
as they know how you think, and they also know your handwriting,... and the
way you compose a sentence. Now if that letter was of such import that it
was made public, as in a collection of documents (assuming that you were a
famous enough person to attract collectors!) the letter would be worthless
without the signature. The same with a pot...I have been in the presence of
a Hamada pot only once in my life, many years ago. I would not know another
if it fell on my head, though I would enjoy having one for myself, I
probably could not tell it from any other.
Would I buy a pot that appealed to me, though it was unsigned? Of course I
would, but if I really liked it how would I find another like it, if there
was no signature, and it wasn't purchased from the maker?
Is there any truth to the statement that it is the signature, and not the
pot that is valued? Hell yeah...one example that comes to my
mind...Voulkos...Not to say that his work is crap, but how many would have
some of his more "out there" pieces if they were not signed. I remember
reading several years ago where he was selling chunks of clay with just his
signature on it for $$$.
I like my pots signed...It just makes the pot finished...shows that you are
proud of your work enough to put your name on it.
Tommy Humphries
don hunt on sun 13 oct 02
Sorry to beat this drum, but here's what I don't understand about not
signing your work. The object itself has value and interest, but the
author him/her self also has
value and interest. The connection between them can be seen as a third
source of pleasure for the owner. I think no artist would want to
deprive the lover of their works this pleasure. So by not signing your
work, I think the statement is
I'm so great that the link will always be understood and never
forgotten. Remember it ain't bragging if you can back it up.
Here's the rub though, doesn't this only work where the product is so
consistent that it can be recognized as Hamada (as an example). If he
got a wild hair and started doing electric crystal glazes, wouldn't they
need a signature? So not signing your work is a impingment to
unfettered creativity. (I think)
Don Hunt
mel jacobson on tue 1 aug 06
often a signature can tell you a great deal about
your own history.
i have used 8 or 10 different stamps over the years.
and, i use them in combination.
i mark in my book the signature for each series.
so.
black shino has a different sig than the iron saga study.
we used four sig's with the iron saga. they let us know
the clay body and month that we worked.
i have six stamps that were cut for me in kyoto
the standard mj is used most of the time for standard
work.
i have some kanji/chinese characters also.
i have two hand made stamps that i use at the farm.
and, had one stamp in my pocket at the high school
for years.
kurt uses his name printed...wild
but he uses underline, upper and lower case, and dots.
it is always wild, but the added sigs let him know what
the pot is about, and where and when it was made.
folks can bring me old pots from the sixties.
i can tell them the series, if it was made at home
or the school, and how it was fired.
so, stamps have added value when you use them
for your own history.
if you cannot read your own signature, it is time to change.
mel
from: mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
Clayart page link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
mel jacobson on wed 9 nov 11
i just got off the phone with tom turnquist, one of america's
most prolific collectors. i mean thousands of pots.
he is a serious person, with a passion for hand crafted pots.
(he asked for a couple of pieces of colleen's work.)
i again asked him about signatures. his reply has always been
that `quality crafts-people should make sure their pots are
identifiable for the future`. who knows how your work will
last and be a part of good collections many years from now.
he finds it very `stupid` to be casual about such things.
it makes the work of future collectors very difficult. very
difficult. it may be only one great pot, but that old saw
about `the unknown` is really `silly`. (a famous collectors
opinion.)
it is so simple to clearly identify your work. and the good,
high quality professionals know how to do it...and it makes
their work more valued.
if you have no value added to your work. well, then that
is that.
i am just passing on his opinion. but, my take is:
why go to all the work and passion and have your work
go into future oblivion. it seems that a big piece of
craftsmanship goes missing and pots last forever.
mel
and, by the way...when famous collectors ask for my work
it is always given as a gift. i love being in great collections.
it is an honor. i never try and snag a profit from a collector.
just my take.
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
Robin Wolf on thu 10 nov 11
Even as a novice potter, I signed my work. I have a "mark"; it is a
compilation of L2K, for the people that make the pursuit of my clay affair
possible - my husband Larry, and my 3 daughters - Lexie, Kian, Kaily. 2 L'=
s
and 2 K's.
The first time I had someone walk up to me at a show and say that they
recognized my mark, my heart soared. I felt like I had finally arrived!
I absolutely agree with Mel, take the 3 seconds, sign and/or mark your work=
,
and NUMBER it. The number adds infinite value to anyone that purchases you=
r
work. Those few digits help tie your customer to you, they give the piece =
a
personal identifier.
INHO - If it's not good enough for you to claim it with your name when it i=
s
created, why would you spend time and hard earned cash to present it to the
public???
Robin
Robin Wolf Pottery
Kingfisher, OK
405.368.0919
www.robinwolfpottery.com
"We are the ones, the ones that we're waiting for." - Melissa Ethridge
Lee on sat 12 nov 11
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 2:25 PM, douglas fur <23drb50@gmail.com> wrote:
> (I've got nothing against marking your pots so that people can find you t=
=3D
o
> buy more but paying more for a signature seems against what we're about)
Hamada thought the pot should be the signature. I tend to agree,
even if I stamp my work (my stamps indicate where and when the pot was
made,).
Intelligent collectors don't need a signature to know whose work it is.
--=3D20
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
douglas fur on sat 12 nov 11
Mel
"he finds it very `stupid` to be casual about such things.
it makes the work of future collectors very difficult. very
difficult. it may be only one great pot, but that old saw
about `the unknown` is really `silly`. (a famous collectors
opinion.)"
This sounds as if he's saying given two pots of equal quality, one signed
one not, he'd pay more for the signed pot.
This sounds silly or at least intellectually troubling to me. Isn't there
some imutable intrinsic quality in hte pot? I guess this means that if
you bought a manufactured ceramic "article" and signed it "R.Mutt" you
could selll it for more than a plain pissoir.
(I've got nothing against marking your pots so that people can find you to
buy more but paying more for a signature seems against what we're about)
DRB
Seola Creek
Arthur Lee on sun 13 nov 11
I recently found myself in the studio of a potter I greatly respect trying
to decide which one pot of his I would buy. One pot, since I could not
afford more. After a longish period, I narrowed it down to two and could no=
t
decide between them. One had a mark, the other did not. I liked them
equally, but in the end I bought the one with the mark. How far did that
affect my decision? I'm not really sure, but I suspect that it might have
been a factor.
I now mark all my pots, unless they're experiments that I'm never likely to
try to sell.
Arthur
Englewood, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of douglas fur
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 3:26 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: signatures
Mel
"he finds it very `stupid` to be casual about such things.
it makes the work of future collectors very difficult. very
difficult. it may be only one great pot, but that old saw
about `the unknown` is really `silly`. (a famous collectors
opinion.)"
This sounds as if he's saying given two pots of equal quality, one signed
one not, he'd pay more for the signed pot.
This sounds silly or at least intellectually troubling to me. Isn't there
some imutable intrinsic quality in hte pot? I guess this means that if
you bought a manufactured ceramic "article" and signed it "R.Mutt" you
could selll it for more than a plain pissoir.
(I've got nothing against marking your pots so that people can find you to
buy more but paying more for a signature seems against what we're about)
DRB
Seola Creek
Snail Scott on sun 13 nov 11
On Nov 12, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Lee wrote:
> Intelligent collectors don't need a signature to know whose work it is.
You don't want to sell to the other sort, too? Seems sort of elitist...
-Snail
Sojourner Forspam on sun 13 nov 11
On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 12:25:39 -0800, douglas fur <23drb50@GMAIL.COM> wrote=
=3D
:
>This sounds as if he's saying given two pots of equal quality, one signe=
=3D
d
>one not, he'd pay more for the signed pot.
>This sounds silly or at least intellectually troubling to me. Isn't ther=
=3D
e
>some imutable intrinsic quality in hte pot? I guess this means that if=
=3D
>you bought a manufactured ceramic "article" and signed it "R.Mutt" you
>could selll it for more than a plain pissoir.
>
>(I've got nothing against marking your pots so that people can find you =
=3D
to
>buy more but paying more for a signature seems against what we're about)=
=3D
>
>DRB
>Seola Creek
Unfortunately that's the way of the world. It's all about provenance, an=
=3D
d a
piece that is recognizably signed is more likely to be "authentic" than o=
=3D
ne
that is not. Hence - "worth" more to the collector.
It's the collector's mindset, not the potter's mindset. And the collecto=
=3D
rs
are the ones doing the buying.
Soj
Lee on sun 13 nov 11
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:08 AM, Arthur Lee wrote:
>
> I now mark all my pots, unless they're experiments that I'm never likely =
=3D
to
> try to sell.
>
My experiments have more stamps than my non-experiments.
But I buy the pot, not the stamp.
I don't think much about the archaeological life of my pots.
Except to take Mark Pharis's advice to heart: "Recycle your bad pots
before you bisque. Do you want someone to think your are responsible for a
piece in 7,000 years? So, thinking of the future helps me "not make"
certain pots, rather than making pots for the future.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he land
of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
itself." -- John O'Donohue
John Post on mon 14 nov 11
Isabella a student in my 3rd grade class today was passing out
watercolor paintings when she got to one with no name on it (a common
occurence).
She said "What's up with these kids, don't they know all good art
workers put their name on their art?"
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
http://www.johnpost.us
Follow me on Twitter
https://twitter.com/UCSArtTeacher
Wyndham Dennison on mon 14 nov 11
> Unfortunately that's the way of the world. It's all about provenance, an=
=3D
> d a
> piece that is recognizably signed is more likely to be "authentic" than o=
=3D
> ne
> that is not. Hence - "worth" more to the collector.
>
> It's the collector's mindset, not the potter's mindset. And the collecto=
=3D
> rs
> are the ones doing the buying.
>
> Soj
I don't make pots for collectors. I make pots to be used by everyday
people that enjoy the warmth of a handmade vessel. Collectors "Never"
use the pot, except to look at it and keep others from using the piece.
Clay vessels are meant to be used, enjoyed, passed to others and when
they break, it's just clay. God made enough clay to last all of humanity
forever.
We can alter, distress, mold, slab, turn or otherwise made vessels but
they are no more than the material, the making, and finishing of what
someone has done. You can make an idol out of clay but it is nothing
more than clay. You can place it and the potter high above all other
potters but that does nothing more than create a divison that confuses
those who believe the BS of art critics and others that hold themselves
above the unwashed masses.
A pot can be beautiful, well made, but it is just clay, as are we.
My signature on my pot is a finish nothing more.
If you like my work, buy it, use it and when it breaks be happy for the
time you used it. Don't put it on a shelf or hid it away till some time
in the future, you might not be here to enjoy it.
Bit of a rant but hey, it's what I believe.
Wyndham
Taylor Hendrix on mon 14 nov 11
Just the other day, I did have a customer ask me if I would sign a pot
of mine. Said her husband wanted a signature on the pot. When I
questioned her, she said the piece did have my stamp on it (I do
forget sometimes). Once the husband was aware of the stamp, he was
fine with no signature. These are art center members and collectors of
all types of art, not only pottery.
Whadupwidat?
Taylor, in Rockport TX
wirerabbit1 on Skype (-0600 UTC)
http://wirerabbit.blogspot.com
http://wirerabbitpots.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wirerabbit/
Lee on mon 14 nov 11
On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Taylor Hendrix wr=
=3D
ote:
> Just the other day, I did have a customer ask me if I would sign a pot
> of mine. Said her husband wanted a signature on the pot. When I
> questioned her, she said the piece did have my stamp on it (I do
> forget sometimes). Once the husband was aware of the stamp, he was
> fine with no signature. These are art center members and collectors of
> all types of art, not only pottery.
At the MingeiSota show in Nikko, Japan. A couple buyers asked me to
sign the bottom of some vases with a sharpie they provided.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on mon 14 nov 11
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Snail Scott wr=
=3D
ote:
> On Nov 12, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Lee wrote:
>> Intelligent =3DA0collectors don't need a signature to know whose work it=
i=3D
s.
>
> You don't want to sell to the other sort, too? Seems sort of elitist...
> =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0-Snail
Yeah. I suppose the stupid would think so. ;^) I am not interested
in catering to the stupid and/or the lazy. I am happy to help them
learn though.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Sojourner Forspam on mon 14 nov 11
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:38:23 -0500, Wyndham Dennison
wrote:
>I don't make pots for collectors. I make pots to be used by everyday
>people that enjoy the warmth of a handmade vessel. ...
> Don't put it on a shelf or hid it away till some time
>in the future, you might not be here to enjoy it.
>Bit of a rant but hey, it's what I believe.
>Wyndham
Hey, I agree with you. I never sign anything - not that any of it has
actually been worth signing heretofore.=3D20=3D20
But some people on this list actually DO need to be concerned with the is=
=3D
sue
because they're more into the "art market" and/or just way way way WAY mo=
=3D
re
talented than I'll ever be (probably both). Those people will get better=
=3D
money for their pots if they are signed and are less likely to be plagued=
=3D
by
obvious fakes (such as the lady who recently posted about finding pots
allegedly made by her on E-bay which she had never seen before, including=
=3D
a
link back to her actual website). Or at least if fakes are uncovered,
they'll have a better chance of doing something about it if they have a
sig/seal that can stand as evidence. Unless you're really really really
famous it's unlikely a faker will put a whole lot of effort into forging
your seals/signature (if they bother to even try at all).
There are a lot of potters who sell to BOTH markets - I think of Simon Le=
=3D
ach
and his "GP bowls" and other functional ware which he keeps separate from=
=3D
his more artsy-fartsy stuff, LOL! I don't KNOW whether or not he signs t=
=3D
he
functional stuff - I think he does - But I know for sure he signs (or sea=
=3D
ls)
the "high-end" stuff.
Eventually I probably will make a seal for my pots, but it's more because=
=3D
I
see it as a fun sort of thing, something that would just please me that
little bit to look at and see "my" mark on something, rather than because=
=3D
I
seriously think some collector is ever going to care one way or another
whether or not that pot is a Genuine Sojourner! Craftsman may take pride=
=3D
in
such things as well as the top artists of the century.
Heck, who knows, maybe 7000 years from now those of us who made functiona=
=3D
l
everyday pottery might even be better known (by our marks, style, time
period, and geological distribution) than the guys getting all the attent=
=3D
ion
now, LOL!
I can see it now: "Migration and trade patterns of the Middle American
regions during the White House Dynasty period".
Soj
Steve Mills on tue 15 nov 11
On 14 Nov 2011, at 16:08, Taylor Hendrix wrote:
>
>
> Whadupwidat?
>
>
> Taylor, in Rockport TX
>
Nodahelluvalot!
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
John Britt on tue 15 nov 11
Not sure where this discussion went- illegible scribbles to unsigned Hama=
=3D
da and=3D20
MacKenzie pots to art to kids - nevertheless it prompted me to get a new =
=3D
scribble=3D20
signature stamp.
http://ncclayclub.blogspot.com/2011/11/latest-stamp.html
And I threw in another kind of signature from the archives in case some c=
=3D
ollectors=3D20
are watching:
http://ncclayclub.blogspot.com/2011/11/advertising-or-decoration.html
Out, John Britt
Elisabeth Maurland on tue 15 nov 11
My husband loves to go to our local thrift store, and sometimes he finds =
=3D
wheel-thrown pots there. It's so much fun when he finds early, even =3D
student work by some of the now professional potters in the area! And =3D
that's much easier to know if they are signed. I have always signed and =3D
dated my pots. If they turned out bad, I broke them, the rest I don't =3D
mind being out there.
Elisabeth
www.elisabethmaurland.com
Ric Swenson on wed 16 nov 11
I have always signed my work...
or destroyed it...before others would see it
hehe.
a simple circle with "ric"...and I have a bisque stamp for some larger work=
s..at the foot.. also 'ric'...
not my ego
just a gesture.....
as you sign a letter.....or e-mail now....
be proud of your good work....why not?
collectors? who cares?
they have their own agendas....
I just have my work...and photos...of those sold.
now in China for 6 years...still the same signature....a circle with "ric".
Do I really think someone in the future will care?
Maybe in the next few years....but 7000 years from now? get real dude.
ric
> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:01:55 -0500
> From: notime4spam@HOTMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: Signatures
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>
> On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:38:23 -0500, Wyndham Dennison
> wrote:
>
> >I don't make pots for collectors. I make pots to be used by everyday
> >people that enjoy the warmth of a handmade vessel. ...
> > Don't put it on a shelf or hid it away till some time
> >in the future, you might not be here to enjoy it.
> >Bit of a rant but hey, it's what I believe.
> >Wyndham
>
> Hey, I agree with you. I never sign anything - not that any of it has
> actually been worth signing heretofore.
>
> But some people on this list actually DO need to be concerned with the is=
sue
> because they're more into the "art market" and/or just way way way WAY mo=
re
> talented than I'll ever be (probably both). Those people will get better
> money for their pots if they are signed and are less likely to be plagued=
by
> obvious fakes (such as the lady who recently posted about finding pots
> allegedly made by her on E-bay which she had never seen before, including=
a
> link back to her actual website). Or at least if fakes are uncovered,
> they'll have a better chance of doing something about it if they have a
> sig/seal that can stand as evidence. Unless you're really really really
> famous it's unlikely a faker will put a whole lot of effort into forging
> your seals/signature (if they bother to even try at all).
>
> There are a lot of potters who sell to BOTH markets - I think of Simon Le=
ach
> and his "GP bowls" and other functional ware which he keeps separate from
> his more artsy-fartsy stuff, LOL! I don't KNOW whether or not he signs th=
e
> functional stuff - I think he does - But I know for sure he signs (or sea=
ls)
> the "high-end" stuff.
>
> Eventually I probably will make a seal for my pots, but it's more because=
I
> see it as a fun sort of thing, something that would just please me that
> little bit to look at and see "my" mark on something, rather than because=
I
> seriously think some collector is ever going to care one way or another
> whether or not that pot is a Genuine Sojourner! Craftsman may take pride =
in
> such things as well as the top artists of the century.
>
> Heck, who knows, maybe 7000 years from now those of us who made functiona=
l
> everyday pottery might even be better known (by our marks, style, time
> period, and geological distribution) than the guys getting all the attent=
ion
> now, LOL!
>
> I can see it now: "Migration and trade patterns of the Middle American
> regions during the White House Dynasty period".
>
> Soj
John Britt on fri 18 nov 11
Last thought on signatures:
http://ncclayclub.blogspot.com/2011/11/kathy-king-signature.html
This is a plate of Kathy King's ...now there is a woman who knows how to =
=3D
SIGN!
http://www.youtube.com/user/johnbrittpottery
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