Dave and Pat Eitel on tue 14 jan 97
The post concerning some of the requirements for teabowls, particularly
relating to their dimensions and the specifics about their feet was great.
I'd like to get more of that kind of information, and am wondering what the
original poster's source for the information was.
Someone whose class I attended at Penland a few years ago (I forget exactly
who, but it had to have been Warren MacKenzie, Randy Johnston or Mike
Simon) referred to a teabowl-like form using a Japanese term that I think
sounded like "you-know-me". Does anyone have any knowledge of that term,
or those forms?
During the past several months I have been making more teabowls than ever.
They are extremely pleasurable to throw off the hump and I use each one as
an exercise in varying a form without departing too far from a general
shape and size. I have not been concerned with the history of the bowls,
how they are "supposed" to look, etc. My goal is to make each one
exemplary of my skill as a potter. The throwing of them becomes a sort of
meditation for me and my goal for the finished pieces is that each one is
worthy of being an object of contemplation for its owner. In that way, I
think, my taeabowls are at least made in the spirit of bowls of the tea
ceremony.
Later...Dave
Dave Eitel
Cedar Creek Pottery
Cedarburg, WI
pots@cedarcreekpottery.com
http://www.cedarcreekpottery.com
Akita-jin \"Lee Love\" on wed 15 jan 97
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:37:00 EST Dave and Pat Eitel
writes:
>Someone whose class I attended at Penland a few years ago (I forget
>exactly
>who, but it had to have been Warren MacKenzie, Randy Johnston or Mike
>Simon) referred to a teabowl-like form using a Japanese term that I
>think
>sounded like "you-know-me". Does anyone have any knowledge of that
>term,
>or those forms?<...>
Unome are everyday drinking cups. They are smaller than teabowls
and are often taller than they are wide. They are what we use in our
house instead of handled cups. We have a wicker basket filled with
them, maded by various potters from around the region. There is also
the occassional custered cup in the basket, which tend to be a little
smaller but make good drinking cups.
My sake cups tend to be pretty big, as do my sake bottles. I
made a bunch of these little cups to give to people on our trip to Japan,
3 years ago. An antique dealer in Sendai, that I gave a cup to, told me
that they were guinome, just right for drinking fine tea. He took my
wife and I up to his office and showed me some of his Hamada and Shimaoka
collection and also some very fine old Chinese Ming ware. He said his
specialty was Chinese pottery and that he collected it and sold to people
all around Japan. We felt pretty lucky & we owed the doors being opened
to us more than once just because of a little sake cup. It was as
though people said, "Ah, not just another tourist, but a maker."
Hamada used to throw his teabowls while chatting with visitors.
He would invite people over for a chat when he wanted to make teabowls.
He said that this helped him keep from thinking too much about them when
he threw them. I find that it is difficult to "try" to be loose and
lively in my throwing. I have to "let" it happen.
Lee
/(o\ Lee Love In St. Paul, MN Come see some pixs of my AkitaPup:
\o)/ mailto:Ikiru@juno.com http://www.millcomm.com/~leelove
LeeLove@millcomm.com "You can observe a lot by watching."
.. -Yogi Berra-
June Perry on wed 15 jan 97
As I was putting away my books on tea ceremony I found a page containing an
article by Richard L. Wilson that I had taken from some other publication.
Here are some of of the points he gives on tea bowls that I have taken from
the article.
A useful tea bowl should have a feeling of balance and sound proportions.
After handling many of these bowls he determined that they had a sense of
buoyance yet, with weight and he makes his bowls with the weight more at the
center (the hip) rather than at the base.
The foot ring must be broad enough to steady the bowl during the whisking
process and remain steady in the hand.
The goot should also lift the bowl high enough so that the middle fingers of
the right hand can slip under the lower edge of the wall while the right
thumb rests on the rim.
This is how the bowl is grasped while lifting and turning, while the left
hand supports the bowl from underneath.
While drinking, the reverse "C" formed by the thumb and four fingers of the
right hand engage the bowl horizontally, at its waist. These lifting and
drinking positions are basic functional indices for the dimensions of the
bowl. If the bowl is too wide it becomes difficult to handle; too narrow,
it's difficult to whisk the tea.
The lip should be easy to drink from. Korean bowls, which were food vessels
adopted by the Japanesefor tea, are rather larger, averaging about 8.3cm in
height and 14cm
in total diameter. Japanese tea bowls share the same average height but
average about 11cm total diameter.
He also mentions the summer and winters shapes as I did in my earlier post.
The finish is important. If rough the bamboo whisk can break off during the
mixing of the tea.
He then gives as example of a typical Raku tea bowl: It is easy to handle
because of it's low center of gravity and rounded cylindrical shape and its
carefully sculpted interior contours which aid in the whisking of the tea.
The inside of the rim is subtly undercut to facilitate drip-free drinking.
The author spent time in the workshop of Ogawa Choraku whose raku tea bowls
are the most sought after in Japan. The potter maintained that every step of
the production related to the use of the bolw, beginning with the selection
of coarse clay, which would insulate the tea and the hands of the user. The
carving of the bowl took into consideration each of the utensils that would
come in contact with it - the gauze napkin used for wiping it, the bamboo tea
scoop which rests across it when the apparatus is carried into the tea room,
and the tea whisk which brushes against its bottom and sides while making
tea. Choraku proudly demonstrated that his bowls even when knocked over,
would return to rest on their base, ostensibly minimizing accidents in the
tea room.
The author goes on to mention that highly vitrified bowl emit an unpleasant
sound and sensitive people won't use them. He also mentions that an oil
smoothness is probably the least appreciated. Special attention is devoted to
where the bowl meets the mouth. Taste and smell might be considered together;
cheap raku bowls smell bad and impart an unusual taste to the tea. The
crackles in ash-glazed stoneware fill with tea over long use and it is
generally held that the more a bowl is used the better the taste of the tea.
Richard P. Bonner on thu 16 jan 97
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>As I was putting away my books on tea ceremony I found a page containing an
>article by Richard L. Wilson that I had taken from some other publication.
>Here are some of of the points he gives on tea bowls that I have taken from
>the article.
>
Hello June,
Great info on the t-bowls...where might more of this article be found?
Thanks, R Bonner
Jun-ichi INAGAKI on fri 17 jan 97
At 06:37 97/01/14 EST, you wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> The post concerning some of the requirements for teabowls, particularly
> relating to their dimensions and the specifics about their feet was great.
> I'd like to get more of that kind of information, and am wondering what the
> original poster's source for the information was.
>
> Someone whose class I attended at Penland a few years ago (I forget exactly
> who, but it had to have been Warren MacKenzie, Randy Johnston or Mike
> Simon) referred to a teabowl-like form using a Japanese term that I think
> sounded like "you-know-me". Does anyone have any knowledge of that term,
> or those forms?
"you-know-me" sounds good.
It pronounces "yu-no-mi" in Japanese.
"Yu" means hot water and "nomi" is drinking.
"YUNOMI" is a cup using for drinking japanese tea(leaf type).
(not powderd green tea for tea ceremony)
Its shape is columnar.
approx. diameter is 2-3 inch and hight 3-5 inch.
>
> During the past several months I have been making more teabowls than ever.
> They are extremely pleasurable to throw off the hump and I use each one as
> an exercise in varying a form without departing too far from a general
> shape and size. I have not been concerned with the history of the bowls,
> how they are "supposed" to look, etc. My goal is to make each one
> exemplary of my skill as a potter. The throwing of them becomes a sort of
> meditation for me and my goal for the finished pieces is that each one is
> worthy of being an object of contemplation for its owner. In that way, I
> think, my taeabowls are at least made in the spirit of bowls of the tea
> ceremony.
>
> Later...Dave
>
> Dave Eitel
> Cedar Creek Pottery
> Cedarburg, WI
> pots@cedarcreekpottery.com
> http://www.cedarcreekpottery.com
>
>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Junichi Inagaki
Mie Ceramic Research Institute, Iga branch
tel +81-595-44-1019 fax +81-595-44-1043
e-mail inagaki@mie-iri.tsu.mie.jp
June Perry on fri 17 jan 97
Dear Richard:
I have no idea where I got this article. I ripped a page out of some
publication years I ago and folded it and put it in another book. I
rediscovered it the other day. The page has no date or any other indication
of its source. :(
If you'd like I'd be happy to fax it to you.
Warm regards,
June
Joyce Lee, Jim Lee on tue 4 feb 97
I've appreciated the info on teabowls, particularly Hiro Matsusaki's
last "tidbits in the snow", so much that I created a brand new folder
just for teabowls, about which I neither knew nor cared a month ago.
Do any of you clayarters have teabowls on your home pages or links to
pages that might have? Thank you.
Joyce
In the MOjave preparing for Jack Troy's workshop in Mesa
mel jacobson on fri 14 apr 00
i have maybe made 100 japanese style teabowls
this year.
from that group about 80 are only fit for 'lipton' tea.
i have sold some that have the 'right stuff'...they
would pass for japanese teabowls.
i have saved a couple, one fired in vince's kiln, that
are really nice.
i hate to see 'chip dip' in my teabowls, and am very fussy
who gets them. they are a special art form.
anyone can make them, try, work at it. it is the right of
every potter to make whatever they want. try, of course.
there is so much aesthetic to the teabowl. so much hidden
from our view. we do not read the language, see the treasure.
vince's wonderful son has eyes that see. he knows the language
of japan, has studied far beyond me. miles ahead. but he too
is a baby in the sea of knowledge of japanese ceramics. it takes
years to understand. and then, when you think you know, well
you do not. just close.
i guess my irritation comes from standing in a booth at an art fair,
talking to a stranger potter who says 'hey, you want to buy this
authentic japanese tea bowl that i just made last month? i saw
a picture of one in a book, now i make them.' teabowl? not. it is
a coffee mug without a handle.
the concept of the wobble is a metaphor really. i have seen many,
including hundreds that i made for mr. uchida. (yes, i made his teabowls
that sold for huge prices.) that were dead on level, perfectly thrown
pots. but, when you look carefully, often the cut lines of the
ring foot shoulder may be off, just a hair. i had to practice
that slight wobble in that cut. he insisted it have a slight, very
slight wobble. the center of the ring also had a nipple. very small,
but, it was there.
often as potters, crafts people, we cut fine hairs about what we
make. most don't give a damn, customers rarely see. we just
carry on our own struggles the best we can. the influences that
have made us, keep banging against us. those tapes run in our
heads all the time. 'do this, don't do that, my god, mel, have
you lost your mind?'. it took me years to rid my brain of the do's
and don'ts of warren mackenzie. can't be warren, have to be me.
it is a struggle.
thanks vince. you say things so well.
mel/mn
i have won the lottery of friends. i am one of the wealthiest
persons on this earth.
minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a
http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
Veronica Honthaas on sat 15 apr 00
Have been enjoying the discussion about japanese tea bowls. I hope it
continues. Are there folks in Clayartland that have knowledge (from their
studies or travels)of different tea/beverage bowls from other cultures?
The many parts of the world do not use handles on their mugs. Veronica
rickmahaffey on sat 15 apr 00
Mel, Vince,
just because someone calls what they make tea bowls does not mean that
they are making tea bowls. At the final class for my Japanese language
class we met at a Japanese restaurant to learn manners and practice
speaking to the waitresses I spoke to the Kendo Sensei. He found out
that I taught ceramics and that I was going to live in Japan and study
clay. He immediately asked if I was going to learn to make tea bowls.
I answered that if I were to study them for forty year I still would not
know enough to make tea bowls. Most of us gaijin (Foreigners) don't
know enough about Cha no yu (Tea ceremony) to begin to understand Chawan
(tea bowls). Mel does because he was trained by someone who knew.
A friend in Japan has a rare out of print book about tea ceramics. In
it there are over 60 pages on trimming the foot alone. There are many
more pages about other aspects of Tea ware, and teabowls in particular.
Alas, it is all in Kanji.
I make bowls that are the size of tea bowls and try to bring the right
attitude to them. If I am lucky someone who knows the way of tea will
see it and decide to use it for tea, much like Sen no Rikyu chose common
rice bowls for serving tea when Cha no Yu was introduced to Japan all
those years ago.
Rick Mahaffey
Tacoma Washington, USA
Anji Henderson on sun 16 apr 00
<the language
of japan, has studied far beyond me. miles ahead. but
he too
is a baby in the sea of knowledge of japanese
ceramics. it takes
years to understand. and then, when you think you
know, well
you do not. just close.>>
Hummmm, sounds like life.... Is it possible??? could
it be ??? That this is why Japanese potters don't make
tea bowls until 50?? Or did we decide that it is not
true that they don't make them until they are 50??
I was kind of off and on that thread..
Anji
--- mel jacobson wrote:
> ----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
> i have maybe made 100 japanese style teabowls
> this year.
>
> from that group about 80 are only fit for 'lipton'
> tea.
>
> i have sold some that have the 'right stuff'...they
> would pass for japanese teabowls.
>
> i have saved a couple, one fired in vince's kiln,
> that
> are really nice.
>
> i hate to see 'chip dip' in my teabowls, and am very
> fussy
> who gets them. they are a special art form.
>
> anyone can make them, try, work at it. it is the
> right of
> every potter to make whatever they want. try, of
> course.
>
> there is so much aesthetic to the teabowl. so much
> hidden
> from our view. we do not read the language, see the
> treasure.
>
> vince's wonderful son has eyes that see. he knows
> the language
> of japan, has studied far beyond me. miles ahead.
> but he too
> is a baby in the sea of knowledge of japanese
> ceramics. it takes
> years to understand. and then, when you think you
> know, well
> you do not. just close.
>
> i guess my irritation comes from standing in a booth
> at an art fair,
> talking to a stranger potter who says 'hey, you want
> to buy this
> authentic japanese tea bowl that i just made last
> month? i saw
> a picture of one in a book, now i make them.'
> teabowl? not. it is
> a coffee mug without a handle.
>
> the concept of the wobble is a metaphor really. i
> have seen many,
> including hundreds that i made for mr. uchida. (yes,
> i made his teabowls
> that sold for huge prices.) that were dead on
> level, perfectly thrown
> pots. but, when you look carefully, often the cut
> lines of the
> ring foot shoulder may be off, just a hair. i had
> to practice
> that slight wobble in that cut. he insisted it have
> a slight, very
> slight wobble. the center of the ring also had a
> nipple. very small,
> but, it was there.
>
> often as potters, crafts people, we cut fine hairs
> about what we
> make. most don't give a damn, customers rarely see.
> we just
> carry on our own struggles the best we can. the
> influences that
> have made us, keep banging against us. those tapes
> run in our
> heads all the time. 'do this, don't do that, my god,
> mel, have
> you lost your mind?'. it took me years to rid my
> brain of the do's
> and don'ts of warren mackenzie. can't be warren,
> have to be me.
> it is a struggle.
>
> thanks vince. you say things so well.
>
> mel/mn
> i have won the lottery of friends. i am one of the
> wealthiest
> persons on this earth.
>
> minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>
__________________________________________________
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Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
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vince pitelka on sun 16 apr 00
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> just because someone calls what they make tea bowls does not mean that
> they are making tea bowls. At the final class for my Japanese language
> class we met at a Japanese restaurant to learn manners and practice
> speaking to the waitresses I spoke to the Kendo Sensei. He found out
> that I taught ceramics and that I was going to live in Japan and study
> clay. He immediately asked if I was going to learn to make tea bowls.
> I answered that if I were to study them for forty year I still would not
> know enough to make tea bowls.
Rick -
I respect your feelings on this subject, and your respect for tradition, but
I am not comfortable with language which discourages people from making tea
bowls. When we talk about the complex history and social conventions
surrounding the making and using of "proper" Japanese tea bowls, we need to
specify "tea bowls for the Japanese tea ceremony," and avoid making broad
generalizations about all tea bowls. Anyone can make tea bowls as long as
they are not assuming to enter that very specific area of Japanese tradition
and expertise. Throwing teabowls off-the-hump is a wonderful exercise in
small sculptural, functional vessels. The parameters need not be
restrictive. As in all other vessels, historical examples simply provide
jumping-off places. While it is admirable to have proper reverence and
respect for such traditions, it does no good at all to interpret in those
traditions a necessarily restrictive limitation on possible new directions.
Even the Japanese do not do that.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Joyce Lee on sun 16 apr 00
I sure don't want to step on any toes, and especially not on the toes of
gurus who have helped me enormously and will probably do so again.
But, although my experience is admittedly limited compared to some (with
"compared to some" as the key phrase), I have difficulty comprehending
just what is the big deal with teabowls? I wasn't kidding when I said
that I'd read "The Unknown Craftsman" three times (and find it
beautifully done and agree with much that's in it), which apparently
qualifies me for the lowest levels of some ritual that I don't quite
understand and in which I'm not sure I want to be included. AND I too
have looked at thousands of pots. AND although I'm just beginning to
qualify as the kind of potter I want to be, I have long qualified as a
thinking person. AND what I THINK is that somebody somewhere is selling
a lot of waaaay over-priced functional pottery to a bunch of foolish
people with too much time and money available....and helping keep the
mystique going as to the rarity of a "real" teabowl. Sometimes I think
that the true rarity of a teabowl is that it's a small, transportable
form easy for its maker to send by UPS with hopes of arriving intact. As
a matter of fact, I've been able to make a "decent" teabowl form, the
kind that Yanagi would okay and the kind that many of you make, since my
own Year Two in pottery ...not as stunning as Eric Wong's nor will mine
ever be as stunning as Eric Wong's, but still an okay, functional
form...... I'm perpetually working on the glazing, the calculating, the
firing ..... but how hard can such a simple form be if an experienced
potter really works and practices? And, yes, I know that "simple" can
be very difficult to achieve, but a teabowl??? Why not a rice bowl? Or
an 18" hand thrown vase of simple dimensions, or even complex
dimensions? Or a teaPOT, which is high on my own hope-to-achieve list
for the next few years. My personal taste does happen to lean toward the
slight scars and irregularity of form, as described by Yanagi; I too
believe that this can be overdone to the point of deformation; I even
agree that there is a close relationship between beauty and deformation.
That said, what else is there? Does such recognition somehow make me a
bleeding genius, and make dorks of all those who prefer regularity of
form and a scarless facade? Based on my understandings of "regular" and
"irregular" if a mark is ALWAYS added to a pot in the same place on each
pot, does it not then become "regular"? Not balanced, perhaps, (whole
other thread) but regular? Meaning... occurring with regularity so that
one has expectations of perceiving such a mark on the NEXT pot? I agree
with the theory that most of us need to have achieved at least 50 years
of living to fully "know" ourselves, and thus to know others. Makes
sense....more sense as I get older. But a teabowl?? The concept of the
"plain, the unagitated, the uncalculated, the harmless, the
straighforward, the natural, the innocent, the humble, the modest, the
meek, the austere, the unornate" being qualities of beauty whether in a
pot or a person speaks to my heart. I embrace pots that are made for a
purpose, made to do work. I like robust pots. I too feel that natural
things are healthy things. What I do NOT believe is that one teabowl is
more "healthy" than another .... healthful, maybe, even if only because
it makes the user feel more healthy, mental health accepted as a
desirable objective... but not healthy in and of itself... as true
followers of teabowl traditions apparently believe. And I do NOT
believe that because I am a disbeliever I am somehow less of a person or
a potter; that I just haven't seen the light; and that being a good
seeker of the truth, which I am, I will eventually discover and be
enlightened by TEABOWLS??? I am not a follower of Zen but I do believe
that "at the far end of the road lies effortless peace;" however, I do
not expect to find a teabowl awaiting me when I get there! If that's
all there is, no matter how symbolic, I'm going to kick that sucker from
here to eternity......
Joyce
In the Mojave finding peace and joy in quiet silence AND in animate
beings, including people........who always disturb my quiet,
but are necessary to my being......WITH all our irregularities.....
Don & Isao Morrill on sun 16 apr 00
At 22:19 4/15/00 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Have been enjoying the discussion about japanese tea bowls. I hope it
>continues. Are there folks in Clayartland that have knowledge (from their
>studies or travels)of different tea/beverage bowls from other cultures?
>The many parts of the world do not use handles on their mugs. Veronica
>
Veronica,
The handle appears to be a fairly recent innovation,even in the
west. I recall a note on a museum teacut...I believe it was either at the
Vernon, B.C. museum or possibly at the Maritime Museum of Salem,
Massachusetts.
I can plainly hear the grumbeling of Japanese and Chinese
potters when instructed to, "Add one a' them funny things on the side of
all yr teabowls." " We'll call 'em, Teacups. No accounting for foreign
barbarian taste." Idsao & Don
Don & Isao Sanami Morrill
e-Mail:
Aiko Ichimura on mon 17 apr 00
Anji,
Well, for a beginner tea ceremony practitioner like myself need practice tea
bowls
for years and years before I could use a fine mater piece tea bowls.
So why not you start making tea bowls as soon as you feel like
you can make one so that I can start practicing the tea ceremony with it.
I mean no one can produce a fine tea bowl just because one becomes 50.
The tea ceremony is simple: it comes down to offering a bowl of delicious
tea
to your guest and enjoy the moment. Sen no Rikyu taught the tea ceremony to
be simple and honest. This is a story about his philosophy: A rich man in a
provincial
town send Sen no Rikyu a lot of money asking him to buy wonderful tea bowls
and utensils
for him and send them.
Sen no Rikyu didn't send this rich man any tea bowls but rolls of
white linen cloth saying if you have clean linen napkin to wipe your bowl
you can have a tea ceremony. You can assume
that he thought the quality of tea bowls had nothing to do with
the quality of tea ceremony.
Also as someone mentioned before, some of very treasured tea bowls
that are in the National museums were used be simple
everyday rice bowls made by Korean potters.
I don't think they fussed so much about the philosophy of
making the rice bowls. They are simple, honest and beautiful
in design and shape.
In my first tea ceremony lesson, the teacher asked me to select 3 tea bowls,
3 tea caddies and 3 tea scoop and asked to make 3 sets of each item on a
tray.
There were 2 dozens of nice tea bowls for me to select. I select one black
raku,
one Shino-like bowl and one Spanish painted bow(looked like a Majorca
bowl)l.
I did divvied those into 3 group. He listened to my reasoning of the
combinations and
he did not give me any critiques.
The teacher said that there is no wrong combination nor wrong utensils. I
must
feel and listen to the inner-self and the season. If I feel the selection
good then it is right.
The result would be pleasant for my self and my guests
who enjoys looking at the utensils I thoughtfully selected for the ceremony.
The point is there is no wrong tea bowls.
You make them even you are much too young , I shall use them.
My advice. If you desire to make bowls that are meant to be used in the tea
ceremony,
then it might be useful to take at least one lesson or to attend the tea
ceremony.
You can see and hear the user's point of view.
Aiko Ichimura
NW DC 20036 USA
aikop@erols.com
202-293-3039
----- Original Message -----
From: Anji Henderson
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: teabowls
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> <> the language
> of japan, has studied far beyond me. miles ahead. but
> he too
> is a baby in the sea of knowledge of japanese
> ceramics. it takes
> years to understand. and then, when you think you
> know, well
> you do not. just close.>>
>
> Hummmm, sounds like life.... Is it possible??? could
> it be ??? That this is why Japanese potters don't make
> tea bowls until 50?? Or did we decide that it is not
> true that they don't make them until they are 50??
>
> I was kind of off and on that thread..
>
> Anji
>
> --- mel jacobson wrote:
> > ----------------------------Original
> > message----------------------------
> > i have maybe made 100 japanese style teabowls
> > this year.
> >
> > from that group about 80 are only fit for 'lipton'
> > tea.
> >
> > i have sold some that have the 'right stuff'...they
> > would pass for japanese teabowls.
> >
> > i have saved a couple, one fired in vince's kiln,
> > that
> > are really nice.
> >
> > i hate to see 'chip dip' in my teabowls, and am very
> > fussy
> > who gets them. they are a special art form.
> >
> > anyone can make them, try, work at it. it is the
> > right of
> > every potter to make whatever they want. try, of
> > course.
> >
> > there is so much aesthetic to the teabowl. so much
> > hidden
> > from our view. we do not read the language, see the
> > treasure.
> >
> > vince's wonderful son has eyes that see. he knows
> > the language
> > of japan, has studied far beyond me. miles ahead.
> > but he too
> > is a baby in the sea of knowledge of japanese
> > ceramics. it takes
> > years to understand. and then, when you think you
> > know, well
> > you do not. just close.
> >
> > i guess my irritation comes from standing in a booth
> > at an art fair,
> > talking to a stranger potter who says 'hey, you want
> > to buy this
> > authentic japanese tea bowl that i just made last
> > month? i saw
> > a picture of one in a book, now i make them.'
> > teabowl? not. it is
> > a coffee mug without a handle.
> >
> > the concept of the wobble is a metaphor really. i
> > have seen many,
> > including hundreds that i made for mr. uchida. (yes,
> > i made his teabowls
> > that sold for huge prices.) that were dead on
> > level, perfectly thrown
> > pots. but, when you look carefully, often the cut
> > lines of the
> > ring foot shoulder may be off, just a hair. i had
> > to practice
> > that slight wobble in that cut. he insisted it have
> > a slight, very
> > slight wobble. the center of the ring also had a
> > nipple. very small,
> > but, it was there.
> >
> > often as potters, crafts people, we cut fine hairs
> > about what we
> > make. most don't give a damn, customers rarely see.
> > we just
> > carry on our own struggles the best we can. the
> > influences that
> > have made us, keep banging against us. those tapes
> > run in our
> > heads all the time. 'do this, don't do that, my god,
> > mel, have
> > you lost your mind?'. it took me years to rid my
> > brain of the do's
> > and don'ts of warren mackenzie. can't be warren,
> > have to be me.
> > it is a struggle.
> >
> > thanks vince. you say things so well.
> >
> > mel/mn
> > i have won the lottery of friends. i am one of the
> > wealthiest
> > persons on this earth.
> >
> > minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a
> > http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com
rickmahaffey on mon 17 apr 00
Vince,
I was not trying to discourage any one from making bowls in the spirit
of Ochawan. I was speaking about my feelings and beliefs. I still hope
that the bowls that I make might be chosen for use in a Tea Ceremony.
I agree with you about the amount that can be learned from making pots
and any time. All pots that you make should be made with the intent
that you talk about when you wrote: "Throwing teabowls off-the-hump is a
wonderful exercise in small sculptural, functional vessels."
I wonder how one can make something as you say "Anyone can make tea
bowls as long as they are not assuming to enter that very specific area
of Japanese tradition and expertise" and be successful.
(Teabowls)) from another culture, not making that item.
I find that for myself, to make good work I need to consider the
function that the piece is intended for, even if the piece is meant for
display only, to ignore the function is to loose the context of the
piece. Part of that for me with respect to teabowls is to consider the
care with which a bowl is chosen for use that day, the care with which
it is used and observed, and the elements that I enjoy in a teabowl.
One can call their work what ever they want. A company was putting a
grille shell that was vaguely reminiscent of a Rolls-Royce and an RR on
the front. Does not mean that is what it was.
Remember take post with a grain of salt.
Rick
vince pitelka wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > just because someone calls what they make tea bowls does not mean that
> > they are making tea bowls. At the final class for my Japanese language
> > class we met at a Japanese restaurant to learn manners and practice
> > speaking to the waitresses I spoke to the Kendo Sensei. He found out
> > that I taught ceramics and that I was going to live in Japan and study
> > clay. He immediately asked if I was going to learn to make tea bowls.
> > I answered that if I were to study them for forty year I still would not
> > know enough to make tea bowls.
>
> Rick -
> I respect your feelings on this subject, and your respect for tradition, but
> I am not comfortable with language which discourages people from making tea
> bowls. When we talk about the complex history and social conventions
> surrounding the making and using of "proper" Japanese tea bowls, we need to
> specify "tea bowls for the Japanese tea ceremony," and avoid making broad
> generalizations about all tea bowls. Anyone can make tea bowls as long as
> they are not assuming to enter that very specific area of Japanese tradition
> and expertise. Throwing teabowls off-the-hump is a wonderful exercise in
> small sculptural, functional vessels. The parameters need not be
> restrictive. As in all other vessels, historical examples simply provide
> jumping-off places. While it is admirable to have proper reverence and
> respect for such traditions, it does no good at all to interpret in those
> traditions a necessarily restrictive limitation on possible new directions.
> Even the Japanese do not do that.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
> 615/597-5376
> Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> 615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
> Appalachian Center for Crafts
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Ray Aldridge on mon 17 apr 00
At 06:10 PM 4/16/00 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> just because someone calls what they make tea bowls does not mean that
>> they are making tea bowls. At the final class for my Japanese language
>> class we met at a Japanese restaurant to learn manners and practice
>> speaking to the waitresses I spoke to the Kendo Sensei. He found out
>> that I taught ceramics and that I was going to live in Japan and study
>> clay. He immediately asked if I was going to learn to make tea bowls.
>> I answered that if I were to study them for forty year I still would not
>> know enough to make tea bowls.
>
>Rick -
>I respect your feelings on this subject, and your respect for tradition, but
>I am not comfortable with language which discourages people from making tea
>bowls.
To add to what Vince says here, I find the discussions of teabowls on the
list to be largely faith-based rather than rational. There's nothing wrong
with taking certain things on faith, of course, so however folks want to
feel about it is just fine with me.
But just because I want to occasionally consolidate my position as ClayArt
AntiChrist, I'll point out that the "teabowls" chosen by the great master
of Tea, Sen no Rikyu, weren't even made as teabowls, so evidently a bunch
of anonymous peasant potters were able to create teabowls that are still
revered today, entirely by accident-- they thought they were making cheap
ricebowls. Our list correspondent Aiko, who I would imagine knows more
about the formal tea ceremony than most of us, has told an interesting
story about a teabowl that she bought in the belief that it would be useful
in the formal ceremony-- but then discovered that it had a surface which
disqualified it.
My impression of famous teabowls used in the formal tea ceremony is that
they are beatified by great masters... and then those who practice the
ceremony on a less rarefied level try to gain understanding of what the
great master was seeing when he chose that specific teabowl to anoint. No
such lesser practitioner is going to reveal his ignorance and lack of
reverence by saying, "I don't know why Sensei is so proud of that bowl.
Looks like a piece of crap to me.". This is not unlike certain religious
practices, in which the sacred dogma is proclaimed by a priest or guru, but
is never fully understood by the acolytes. In many cases (and I'm not a
religious person, so take my bias into consideration) the dogma really
isn't understandable on any rational or transferable basis, which leaves
the acolytes in a perpetual state of semi-frustrated yearning after
illumination. I'd go so far as to say that in many mystical belief
systems, this irreducible uncertainty is a fundamental part of the appeal.
So it is, I believe, with teabowls.
As an aside, mel was fulminating about folks using his teabowls for cheese
dip. I don't get it. The long-dead peasants who made the ricebowls now
used in the tea ceremony wouldn't complain about this misuse of their
wares, so why should we? Besides, it may be that cheese dip serves as
deeply ritual a function in the homes of Americans as tea does in Japanese
homes. Who's to say?
What we obviously need in America is a formal chip and dip ceremony. I
give this idea away freely to the conceptual artists among us, so long as
they pay adequate homage to the originator of the idea.
Ray
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
Norman van der Sluys on tue 18 apr 00
Aiko Ichimura is a Clayart treasure. From posts like this we all learn about
another culture and about our own craft. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we had
Aiko Ichimuras to explain other cultures as they relate to pottery? And isn't
the thread on what makes a good coffee mug a good way for us coffee drinkers to
explore our own cultures! Next, the cultures that insist on putting handles on
their tea bowls should weigh in with their criteria for excellence.
Aiko Ichimura wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Anji,
>
> Well, for a beginner tea ceremony practitioner like myself need practice tea
> bowls
> for years and years before I could use a fine mater piece tea bowls.
> So why not you start making tea bowls as soon as you feel like
> you can make one so that I can start practicing the tea ceremony with it.
> I mean no one can produce a fine tea bowl just because one becomes 50.
>
> The tea ceremony is simple: it comes down to offering a bowl of delicious
> tea
> to your guest and enjoy the moment. Sen no Rikyu taught the tea ceremony to
> be simple and honest. This is a story about his philosophy: A rich man in a
> provincial
> town send Sen no Rikyu a lot of money asking him to buy wonderful tea bowls
> and utensils
> for him and send them.
> Sen no Rikyu didn't send this rich man any tea bowls but rolls of
> white linen cloth saying if you have clean linen napkin to wipe your bowl
> you can have a tea ceremony. You can assume
> that he thought the quality of tea bowls had nothing to do with
> the quality of tea ceremony.
>
> Also as someone mentioned before, some of very treasured tea bowls
> that are in the National museums were used be simple
> everyday rice bowls made by Korean potters.
> I don't think they fussed so much about the philosophy of
> making the rice bowls. They are simple, honest and beautiful
> in design and shape.
>
> In my first tea ceremony lesson, the teacher asked me to select 3 tea bowls,
> 3 tea caddies and 3 tea scoop and asked to make 3 sets of each item on a
> tray.
>
> There were 2 dozens of nice tea bowls for me to select. I select one black
> raku,
> one Shino-like bowl and one Spanish painted bow(looked like a Majorca
> bowl)l.
> I did divvied those into 3 group. He listened to my reasoning of the
> combinations and
> he did not give me any critiques.
> The teacher said that there is no wrong combination nor wrong utensils. I
> must
> feel and listen to the inner-self and the season. If I feel the selection
> good then it is right.
> The result would be pleasant for my self and my guests
> who enjoys looking at the utensils I thoughtfully selected for the ceremony.
>
> The point is there is no wrong tea bowls.
> You make them even you are much too young , I shall use them.
>
> My advice. If you desire to make bowls that are meant to be used in the tea
> ceremony,
> then it might be useful to take at least one lesson or to attend the tea
> ceremony.
> You can see and hear the user's point of view.
>
> Aiko Ichimura
> NW DC 20036 USA
> aikop@erols.com
> 202-293-3039
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Anji Henderson
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 6:04 PM
> Subject: Re: teabowls
>
> > ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > <> > the language
> > of japan, has studied far beyond me. miles ahead. but
> > he too
> > is a baby in the sea of knowledge of japanese
> > ceramics. it takes
> > years to understand. and then, when you think you
> > know, well
> > you do not. just close.>>
> >
> > Hummmm, sounds like life.... Is it possible??? could
> > it be ??? That this is why Japanese potters don't make
> > tea bowls until 50?? Or did we decide that it is not
> > true that they don't make them until they are 50??
> >
> > I was kind of off and on that thread..
> >
> > Anji
> >
> > --- mel jacobson wrote:
> > > ----------------------------Original
> > > message----------------------------
> > > i have maybe made 100 japanese style teabowls
> > > this year.
> > >
> > > from that group about 80 are only fit for 'lipton'
> > > tea.
> > >
> > > i have sold some that have the 'right stuff'...they
> > > would pass for japanese teabowls.
> > >
> > > i have saved a couple, one fired in vince's kiln,
> > > that
> > > are really nice.
> > >
> > > i hate to see 'chip dip' in my teabowls, and am very
> > > fussy
> > > who gets them. they are a special art form.
> > >
> > > anyone can make them, try, work at it. it is the
> > > right of
> > > every potter to make whatever they want. try, of
> > > course.
> > >
> > > there is so much aesthetic to the teabowl. so much
> > > hidden
> > > from our view. we do not read the language, see the
> > > treasure.
> > >
> > > vince's wonderful son has eyes that see. he knows
> > > the language
> > > of japan, has studied far beyond me. miles ahead.
> > > but he too
> > > is a baby in the sea of knowledge of japanese
> > > ceramics. it takes
> > > years to understand. and then, when you think you
> > > know, well
> > > you do not. just close.
> > >
> > > i guess my irritation comes from standing in a booth
> > > at an art fair,
> > > talking to a stranger potter who says 'hey, you want
> > > to buy this
> > > authentic japanese tea bowl that i just made last
> > > month? i saw
> > > a picture of one in a book, now i make them.'
> > > teabowl? not. it is
> > > a coffee mug without a handle.
> > >
> > > the concept of the wobble is a metaphor really. i
> > > have seen many,
> > > including hundreds that i made for mr. uchida. (yes,
> > > i made his teabowls
> > > that sold for huge prices.) that were dead on
> > > level, perfectly thrown
> > > pots. but, when you look carefully, often the cut
> > > lines of the
> > > ring foot shoulder may be off, just a hair. i had
> > > to practice
> > > that slight wobble in that cut. he insisted it have
> > > a slight, very
> > > slight wobble. the center of the ring also had a
> > > nipple. very small,
> > > but, it was there.
> > >
> > > often as potters, crafts people, we cut fine hairs
> > > about what we
> > > make. most don't give a damn, customers rarely see.
> > > we just
> > > carry on our own struggles the best we can. the
> > > influences that
> > > have made us, keep banging against us. those tapes
> > > run in our
> > > heads all the time. 'do this, don't do that, my god,
> > > mel, have
> > > you lost your mind?'. it took me years to rid my
> > > brain of the do's
> > > and don'ts of warren mackenzie. can't be warren,
> > > have to be me.
> > > it is a struggle.
> > >
> > > thanks vince. you say things so well.
> > >
> > > mel/mn
> > > i have won the lottery of friends. i am one of the
> > > wealthiest
> > > persons on this earth.
> > >
> > > minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a
> > > http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
> > >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
> > http://invites.yahoo.com
--
Norman van der Sluys
-in idyllic Western Michigan where it is raining again, which is good, because I
want my teapots to dry slowly
Rick Hugel on tue 18 apr 00
I have been reading the comments about tea bowls for the past week or two
now and Anji's hit the mark - they are beautiful, true, and meaningful.
There is another potter living nearby who fires in an anangama(I fire with
gas). We drop by each other's studio from time to time for a little
symbiosis. He always serves tea(powdered tea ceremony type) in rice bowls
that cracked in his firing. He repaired them for his own personal use but
won't sell them saying that they are don't even make poor seconds. But
everyone who gets to drink from them thinks they are the most wonderful
cups they ever held. The ambience of his studio and the surroundings may
strongly influence this feeling, but what ever it is, I have never been
able to capture it in my efforts to create like bowls - even without the
cracks. I did, once, some years ago make a bowl which I had no intention
of having it used for the tea ceremony, but which a customer, who was a tea
ceremony person, bought saying it was a perfect tea ceremony bowl. I have
never been able to recreate the same effect.
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Anji,
>
>Well, for a beginner tea ceremony practitioner like myself need practice tea
>bowls
>for years and years before I could use a fine mater piece tea bowls.
>So why not you start making tea bowls as soon as you feel like
>you can make one so that I can start practicing the tea ceremony with it.
>I mean no one can produce a fine tea bowl just because one becomes 50.
>
>The tea ceremony is simple: it comes down to offering a bowl of delicious
>tea
>to your guest and enjoy the moment. Sen no Rikyu taught the tea ceremony to
>be simple and honest. This is a story about his philosophy: A rich man in a
>provincial
>town send Sen no Rikyu a lot of money asking him to buy wonderful tea bowls
>and utensils
>for him and send them.
>Sen no Rikyu didn't send this rich man any tea bowls but rolls of
> white linen cloth saying if you have clean linen napkin to wipe your bowl
>you can have a tea ceremony. You can assume
>that he thought the quality of tea bowls had nothing to do with
>the quality of tea ceremony.
>
>Also as someone mentioned before, some of very treasured tea bowls
>that are in the National museums were used be simple
>everyday rice bowls made by Korean potters.
>I don't think they fussed so much about the philosophy of
>making the rice bowls. They are simple, honest and beautiful
>in design and shape.
>
>In my first tea ceremony lesson, the teacher asked me to select 3 tea bowls,
>3 tea caddies and 3 tea scoop and asked to make 3 sets of each item on a
>tray.
>
>There were 2 dozens of nice tea bowls for me to select. I select one black
>raku,
>one Shino-like bowl and one Spanish painted bow(looked like a Majorca
>bowl)l.
> I did divvied those into 3 group. He listened to my reasoning of the
>combinations and
>he did not give me any critiques.
>The teacher said that there is no wrong combination nor wrong utensils. I
>must
>feel and listen to the inner-self and the season. If I feel the selection
>good then it is right.
>The result would be pleasant for my self and my guests
>who enjoys looking at the utensils I thoughtfully selected for the ceremony.
>
>The point is there is no wrong tea bowls.
>You make them even you are much too young , I shall use them.
>
>My advice. If you desire to make bowls that are meant to be used in the tea
>ceremony,
>then it might be useful to take at least one lesson or to attend the tea
>ceremony.
>You can see and hear the user's point of view.
>
>Aiko Ichimura
>NW DC 20036 USA
>aikop@erols.com
>202-293-3039
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Anji Henderson
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 6:04 PM
>Subject: Re: teabowls
>
>
>> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> <>> the language
>> of japan, has studied far beyond me. miles ahead. but
>> he too
>> is a baby in the sea of knowledge of japanese
>> ceramics. it takes
>> years to understand. and then, when you think you
>> know, well
>> you do not. just close.>>
>>
>> Hummmm, sounds like life.... Is it possible??? could
>> it be ??? That this is why Japanese potters don't make
>> tea bowls until 50?? Or did we decide that it is not
>> true that they don't make them until they are 50??
>>
>> I was kind of off and on that thread..
>>
>> Anji
>>
>> --- mel jacobson wrote:
>> > ----------------------------Original
>> > message----------------------------
>> > i have maybe made 100 japanese style teabowls
>> > this year.
>> >
>> > from that group about 80 are only fit for 'lipton'
>> > tea.
>> >
>> > i have sold some that have the 'right stuff'...they
>> > would pass for japanese teabowls.
>> >
>> > i have saved a couple, one fired in vince's kiln,
>> > that
>> > are really nice.
>> >
>> > i hate to see 'chip dip' in my teabowls, and am very
>> > fussy
>> > who gets them. they are a special art form.
>> >
>> > anyone can make them, try, work at it. it is the
>> > right of
>> > every potter to make whatever they want. try, of
>> > course.
>> >
>> > there is so much aesthetic to the teabowl. so much
>> > hidden
>> > from our view. we do not read the language, see the
>> > treasure.
>> >
>> > vince's wonderful son has eyes that see. he knows
>> > the language
>> > of japan, has studied far beyond me. miles ahead.
>> > but he too
>> > is a baby in the sea of knowledge of japanese
>> > ceramics. it takes
>> > years to understand. and then, when you think you
>> > know, well
>> > you do not. just close.
>> >
>> > i guess my irritation comes from standing in a booth
>> > at an art fair,
>> > talking to a stranger potter who says 'hey, you want
>> > to buy this
>> > authentic japanese tea bowl that i just made last
>> > month? i saw
>> > a picture of one in a book, now i make them.'
>> > teabowl? not. it is
>> > a coffee mug without a handle.
>> >
>> > the concept of the wobble is a metaphor really. i
>> > have seen many,
>> > including hundreds that i made for mr. uchida. (yes,
>> > i made his teabowls
>> > that sold for huge prices.) that were dead on
>> > level, perfectly thrown
>> > pots. but, when you look carefully, often the cut
>> > lines of the
>> > ring foot shoulder may be off, just a hair. i had
>> > to practice
>> > that slight wobble in that cut. he insisted it have
>> > a slight, very
>> > slight wobble. the center of the ring also had a
>> > nipple. very small,
>> > but, it was there.
>> >
>> > often as potters, crafts people, we cut fine hairs
>> > about what we
>> > make. most don't give a damn, customers rarely see.
>> > we just
>> > carry on our own struggles the best we can. the
>> > influences that
>> > have made us, keep banging against us. those tapes
>> > run in our
>> > heads all the time. 'do this, don't do that, my god,
>> > mel, have
>> > you lost your mind?'. it took me years to rid my
>> > brain of the do's
>> > and don'ts of warren mackenzie. can't be warren,
>> > have to be me.
>> > it is a struggle.
>> >
>> > thanks vince. you say things so well.
>> >
>> > mel/mn
>> > i have won the lottery of friends. i am one of the
>> > wealthiest
>> > persons on this earth.
>> >
>> > minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a
>> > http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>> >
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
>> http://invites.yahoo.com
C J TRIPP on tue 18 apr 00
I vote with Ray. A formal American chip 'n dip ceremony sounds like a fine
idea. Perhaps we could update it to strained no fat yogurt with organic
blue corn tortillas...
It's getting to the point where I think my delete button will wear out
regarding teabowls. Enough already.
_______________________________________________________
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp
Janet Kaiser on wed 19 apr 00
This is the sort of ungracious comment which gives (or could give) a
discussion group of this calibre a bad name. A potter from Germany recently
told me about the arrogant postings forwarded to him, which have prevented
him from even trying to participate in Clay Art.
There is life beyond the USA you know! Even if the wretched Macdonald's is
universal, that does not - thankfully - apply to other countries and
continents just yet. Exporting your "culture" and attitudes is one thing,
but expecting the rest of the world to lay back and think of better things
is another.
You want a chip 'N' dip culture? Fine by me. But remember, it will be in
polystyrene containers with paper plates and plastic cutlery. Not a ceramic
pot in sight, even if you laud organic fodder.
I for one have been deeply touched by Aiko's mailings on the subject. It has
given me an insight into another culture and set of values, which I
regrettably have never experienced. Her postings have been simply
spell-binding. Something very special and extremely thought provoking.
So... You stick to hitting the delete button with clod-hopping red-neck
boots so you can save your precious fingers for better things... The
internet is there for THE WHOLE WORLD to use and enjoy.
And I DO NOT APOLOGISE for being rude. This is supposedly an international
forum. How dare you belittle other cultures in such a dismissive and
condescending way? Shame on you.
Janet Kaiser... REALLY MAD!!!! and SHOUTING!!!
The Chapel of Art, Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales
Home of The International Potters Path
TEL: (01766) 523570
WEB: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
EMAIL: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: C J TRIPP
> I vote with Ray. A formal American chip 'n dip ceremony sounds like a
fine
> idea. Perhaps we could update it to strained no fat yogurt with organic
> blue corn tortillas...
> It's getting to the point where I think my delete button will wear out
> regarding teabowls. Enough already.
DeBorah Goletz on wed 19 apr 00
Ray - thank you for your insightful, if blasphemous position - well it had
to be said, and I for one am glad you're there to take the heat as
undoubtedly you will. While I do believe organized religion is a scourge on
the planet, I hadn't yet transferred the sentiment to the tea ceremony. How
savvy of those tea masters, to cull their apostles from the female elitists,
those who have the time and money to spend on such a frivolous activities as
to fool and fuss with pots and utensils - secretly building armies of
aesthetically minded caffeinated socialites to promote their skewed
aesthetics on society. You are undoubtedly correct in assessing their
leaders to be shrewd enough to keep their acolytes ever guessing as to the
true nature of the aesthetic to which they are devoted. uhh ... then again
... wouldn't that mean they have to continuously search for the "perfect"
pot ... and always look to PURCHASE said pot? Maybe this forever reaching
for the unattainable is actually working in the potter's favor - hey, come
to
think of it - wasn't that Rikyu guy a potter???
- just had to jazz you Ray (loved your post!)
DeBorah Goletz
Lee Love on thu 20 apr 00
----- Original Message -----
From: Janet Kaiser
> You want a chip 'N' dip culture? Fine by me. But remember, it will be in
> polystyrene containers with paper plates and plastic cutlery. Not a
ceramic
> pot in sight, even if you laud organic fodder.
I agree Janet. There is life and culture outside of America. My hope is
that while communications and travel continue to make the world smaller and
more homogenized, that the small pockets of traditional culture will be
protected and continue to be passed on. I don't know if it will be
possible. Our only hope, I believe, is that people get tired of excess and
start looking for something more substantial.
In America, because its history is so brief, we have to look to our root
cultures for traditions. It removes us from them a bit, but the advantage
is that we have many cultures to draw upon. Leach said America has no tap
root. Maybe not, but it has many tap rootlets.
-
Lee Love
2858-2-2 , Nanai , Mashiko-machi ,Tochigi-ken 321-4106 JAPAN
Ikiru@kami.com Voice Mail and Faxes (a USA number): (303) 256-0374
C J TRIPP on thu 20 apr 00
The point of my post seems to have been missed entirely. I was being ironic
and obviously way too subtle. I never for one moment meant to belittle the
institution of the tea ceremony or the person who wrote about it so
knowledgeably. It was the aftermath reflecting anxious of feelings of
inadequacy about non-Japanese "presuming" to make tea bowls that I was
referring to with my "enough already" stance. I assume (and I could be
mistaken) that was what Ray had in mind too because I read his chip n dip
post as ironic and tongue in cheek and I just expanded upon that attitude.
I had written a much longer post but decided brevity was more in order.
Obviously, I was wrong.
It is one thing to observe a culture, learn and take something away and
quite another to ape a culture; to be more than the
. As an expatriate of many years, I know you can't
succeed. I've watched people try and they just make fools of themselves.
It's far better to soak up differences and also enjoy them while remaining
different and true to yourself. Tying ourselves in knots about the tea
ceremony is just that. Where does it lead? Observe, learn, ask questions
and take something in to round out one's worldview. And practice good
manners; listen carefully.
February's Cermanics Monthy arrived yesterday (by seamail) and in the
article "Modern Mashiko", the author Mary Francis Flodin asks Mashiko
master Narui Tsuneo a "'question about the way of tea as carefully and
respectfully'" as she could. (She reports that her tour group had been
"repeatedly admonished" about the impossibility of Westerners ever
understanding the tea ceremony.) He responds, "There are too many rules in
Japan. Everyone is sick of rules. If you like rules, fine. Enjoy them.
But if you don't like rules, don't bind yourself to them. It's not healthy.
Relax. Don't worry about it. There are no rules for tea. Let whatever
comes out come out. If you think about it too much, it will come out bad."
And so on. His response is sufficient to reassure the author that
the"eggshells" she's been walking on for days in her efforts not to offend
could be discarded. That's not to say she suddenly lost it and
screamed,"Get rid of these bento box lunches with the cold rice balls filled
with who knows what and get me to McDonalds." Good grief no.
I'll bet there are many who will disagree very strongly with Narui Tsuneo
but they won't need to be vitriolic or racist about it. I don't assume you
are Welsh because you live in Wales and even if you are, does that make you
a thief, Taffy? And I am being IRONIC here so calm down please.
Carol
_______________________________________________________
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Lee Love on fri 21 apr 00
----- Original Message -----
From: C J TRIPP
<...>
> could be discarded. That's not to say she suddenly lost it and
> screamed,"Get rid of these bento box lunches with the cold rice balls
filled
> with who knows what and get me to McDonalds." Good grief no.
<...>
Hahaha. She's be better man than I. ;^) I eat bento every day
(homemade, for lunch) but I miss a good greasy American breakfast like I
could get at Micky's Diner in St. Paul (Potatoes O'Brien, eggs soft poached,
whole wheat toast and bacon.) I also miss Mexican food. Need to make my
own tortillas & taco shells.)
Actually, a lot of slack is cut here for foreigners. They don't
expect you to get it all right.
Every other Thursday, there is tea ceremony class on the pottery
grounds (begins during work hours.) There is a tea house I've raked the
grounds of, but having been inside. Folks taking class come into the
pottery workshop for a cigarette break and to use the bathroom. Most folks
were kimono.
--
Lee Love
2858-2-2 , Nanai , Mashiko-machi ,Tochigi-ken 321-4106 JAPAN
Ikiru@kami.com Voice Mail and Faxes (a USA number): (303) 256-0374
Randall Moody on fri 21 apr 00
----- Original Message -----
From: Janet Kaiser
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: teabowls
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> This is the sort of ungracious comment which gives (or could give) a
> discussion group of this calibre a bad name. A potter from Germany
recently
> told me about the arrogant postings forwarded to him, which have prevented
> him from even trying to participate in Clay Art.
So instead of having the intestinal fortitude to join the conversation and
possibly change others views he would rather grumble quietly to himself and
a couple of others. I believe that the best part of this list is the varied
opinions and even the arrogant ones are good for the conversational stew. If
everyone agreed on everything the world would be VERY boring.
> I for one have been deeply touched by Aiko's mailings on the subject. It
has
> given me an insight into another culture and set of values, which I
> regrettably have never experienced. Her postings have been simply
> spell-binding. Something very special and extremely thought provoking.
I enjoy reading the posts of others around the world. But, just because
another person has a different point of view than I do doesn't mean that I
have to subscribe to their point of view. No matter how hard the Bernard
Leach's of the world try to cram it down my throat. I have had the pleasure
of experiencing a tea ceremony several times in the 4 years that I was in
Japan. But being a born and raised 6'4" WASP the tea ceremony has no deep
meaning for me. I did not grow up with it, I do not especailly like green
tea, nor do I subscribe to any oreintal philosophy.
> So... You stick to hitting the delete button with clod-hopping red-neck
> boots so you can save your precious fingers for better things... The
> internet is there for THE WHOLE WORLD to use and enjoy.
> And I DO NOT APOLOGISE for being rude. This is supposedly an international
> forum. How dare you belittle other cultures in such a dismissive and
> condescending way? Shame on you.
>
Speaking of "belittling other cultures in a dismissive and condescending
way." Perhaps you should re-read your above paragraph and apply the same
standards to yourself.
vince pitelka on sat 22 apr 00
Teabowls.
Teabowls teabowls teabowls teabowls teabowls teabowls teabowls teabowls
teabowls TEABOWLS TEABOWLS TEABOWLS!!
Teabowls?
Teabowls!!!
I like teabowls.
I hate teabowls.
Only Japanese should make teabowls.
The teabowl is a magical vessel, endowed with millenia of East Asian
tradition.
Everyone should make teabowls.
The teabowl is a plain bowl form with no redeeming features, other than
those invested by society.
Teabowls are the most important ceramic vessel form every created.
Teabowls must be symmetrical.
Teabowls are of little importance in the grand scheme of things.
Teabowls must be unglazed on the outside.
Teabowls must be asymmetrical.
Teabowls must be glazed on the outside.
Teabowls must be earthy and brown.
I love teabowls.
Teabowls must be bright and lively.
I hate teabowls.
T-bowls, teebols, tebols, t-bols, teebolls, t-bolls, teabols, teabolls,
teabolz, teebolz, teebollz, t-bolz, teebolls, teabolls, treebowls,
shmeebols, I'm a little teabowl short and stout. Teabowls ad nauseum. Etc.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Bobbi Bassett on wed 26 apr 00
In a message dated 04/19/2000 2:38:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
janet@the-chapel-of-art.freeserve.co.uk writes:
> And I DO NOT APOLOGISE for being rude. This is supposedly an international
> forum. How dare you belittle other cultures in such a dismissive and
> condescending way? Shame on you.
>
Three cheers for you Janet. We sit here and read these posts and maybe are
too nice or too bashful to say what we feel. I, too, have enjoyed the tea
bowl posts and the wonderful opportunity to take a peek at another culture.
Thank you for expressing your feelings.
Bobbi in PA
ILENE MAHLER on wed 1 nov 00
I just got an e-mail back from the 2000 teabowl show they only received
3 bowls ...What happened to this group..I am ready to send mine out
tomorrow is there any one out there that will help this show ...Ilene in
frosty Conn.......
Bill Patterson on sun 5 nov 00
Please, me too!
----- Original Message -----
From: annelorre dostal
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 2:08 PM
Subject: teabowls
> could anybody list the info. about "teabowl2000"
> i would like to enter, but the information was erased from my email
account.
> please email me
> or post to clayart
> annelorre
> annelorrer@hotmail.com
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
annelorre dostal on sun 5 nov 00
could anybody list the info. about "teabowl2000"
i would like to enter, but the information was erased from my email account.
please email me
or post to clayart
annelorre
annelorrer@hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
mel jacobson on tue 13 feb 01
gotta wade in here.
simple education in teabowls means about 20 years of study.
it is very complex.
i think changing the term may help.
the japanese tea ceremony bowl is a `chawan`. it is a very
important aesthetic. only the best potters (oldest) make the best
chawan. because the pot is asymmetric, you must understand that
the finest potter would be doing it on purpose....not by accident.
a young potter may make the pot asymmetric because they are not
skilled enough to make it perfect.
from many chawan made, only a few reach the status of important
bowls. many are thrown away.
to understand chawan, you must understand tea ceremony. i would
suggest you learn to read japanese, and study for many years...look
at real chawan and the tools of tea, then you `may` start to understand.
any one can make tea bowls. that is your right and duty. but, do not
expect that they are `chawan`. look at pictures of tea bowls, try to
find how they are made, how they look. make them yourself. chawan
bowls are steeped in rules and tradition...you do not know them.
just don't pass them off as what they are not.
you can drink anything from a tea bowl...coffee, 7 up, black tea, slimfast.
you drink thick, whipped green tea, with ceremony from a chawan.
nothing else ever touches one.
mel
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Lee Love on tue 13 feb 01
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson"
> the japanese tea ceremony bowl is a `chawan`. it is a very
> important aesthetic. only the best potters (oldest) make the best
> chawan. because the pot is asymmetric, you must understand that
> the finest potter would be doing it on purpose....not by accident.
> a young potter may make the pot asymmetric because they are not
> skilled enough to make it perfect.
I think there might be other factors besides age. I agree
with Mel, that the gifted potter can express control when necessary, but can
also be "free", when it is called for. That is the difference between a
gifted potter and a beginner. The gifted potter can have control when he
chooses to. While the beginner can only be loose. I've been throwing
the same yunomi for a year (just graduated to go tsun osara: plates
measuring 5 times 3.02 cms.) Learning control gives you choice between
control and freedom.
I've been re-reading Leach's book on Hamada (visited the Mingeikan
where a Leach/Hamada show is going on now.) Leach thought that Hamada's
early experiences with zen meditation influenced his whole creative life.
Hamada says that we don't turn our backs upon or education or our intellect.
We just transcend it.
--
Lee Love
Mashiko JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
Interested in Folkcraft? Signup:
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artimater on tue 13 feb 01
Ping steven.....Don't woory dude.....you are worthy....tell em I =
said you could....make teabowls.....
This is a worldwide list.......I can go to Survivor Island in a =
flash....In ten minutes I could tell you whether A. rock in AUS was good =
for clay likely not)......We live in a global village.....Myself I was =
born a poor black child.....was french for most of my life and....now I =
'm turning into an old fart....I'm the required .125 Native =
American.....look like a leprechan....love the blues.....love german =
wine, and drink coffee, chocolate, and on friday night, sometimes a =
little Crown out of teabowls.
Maybe what we need is a new name for the form?????? so you more =
racially and geographically challenged types could add them to your =
culture
artimator
artimator@earthlink.net=20
BTW I don't care if you live in Izmir you too can join the Texas =
Ceramics Club....see link below....if you live in texas amd you haven't =
joined; "For Shame, For Shame, For Shame" -Gomer
http://www.geocities.com/artimator/index.html=20
http://home.earthlink.net/~artimator/index.html
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/texasceramics
"i only indulge when i've seen a snake, so i keep a supply of =
indulgences and snakes handy"
philrogers pottery on tue 13 feb 01
Mel,
At the risk of being pedantic.
The 'teabowl' that everyone seems to be talking about is in fact the ' =
teacup' or Yunomi.
The tea bowl is, as you quite rightly say, the chawan, the more rounded =
and open form. I think most people who have posted on this subject are =
referring to the Yunomi.
When we make a teabowl or teacup in the west it is no more of a =
peculiarity than Hamada or Shimaoka making a handled pitcher. Just =
because a form has a tradition and accepted function in one culture =
doesn't mean to say that we can't adopt and adapt it into our own. Its =
interesting to note that it wasn't until around 1830 that handles =
appeared on teacups in this country!=20
We do, however, have a responsibility to our craft in the broadest sense =
and part of that responsibility is to understand, at least something, of =
the traditions inherent in a particular form. I make a lot of Yunomi and =
I like to think I have a feel for that particular pot and what =
constitutes a Yunomi. I also make a lot of tall pitchers that are =
medieval in their ancestry. It would be shallow of me or any other =
potter to make pots that are obviously part of a long tradition without =
making that commitment to learn about the root of what we are doing. If =
there is no knowledge or understanding then we simply make soulless =
pastiche - characterless pots that neither reflect their history or =
contribute to the present. =20
Having said all that, let's not get too anal about the do's and don'ts =
regarding the Chawan. Its just a bowl! Sure there are lots of rules and =
regulations - IN Japan!=20
Yes, I agree - look closely at every aspect of the various forms, =
extract what you feel to be important,but, do we need to know the 'Zen' =
thing? I think not. Remember a Japanese Chawan teabowl is only a 15th =
Century Korean rice bowl that has been glorified! The Japanese stole it =
in the first place so I think we can safely say that they belong to =
everyone.
I'm not learning to speak Japanese, I have enough trouble with English!
Phil.
Phil and Lynne Rogers,
Lower Cefn Faes,
RHAYADER.
Powys. LD6 5LT.
Tel/fax. (44) 01597 810875.
philrogers@ntlworld.com
www.philrogerspottery.com
----- Original Message -----=20
From: mel jacobson
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 12:44 PM
Subject: teabowls
> gotta wade in here.
> simple education in teabowls means about 20 years of study.
> it is very complex.
>=20
> i think changing the term may help.
> the japanese tea ceremony bowl is a `chawan`. it is a very
> important aesthetic. only the best potters (oldest) make the best
> chawan. because the pot is asymmetric, you must understand that
> the finest potter would be doing it on purpose....not by accident.
> a young potter may make the pot asymmetric because they are not
> skilled enough to make it perfect.
>=20
> from many chawan made, only a few reach the status of important
> bowls. many are thrown away.
>=20
> to understand chawan, you must understand tea ceremony. i would
> suggest you learn to read japanese, and study for many years...look
> at real chawan and the tools of tea, then you `may` start to =
understand.
>=20
> any one can make tea bowls. that is your right and duty. but, do not
> expect that they are `chawan`. look at pictures of tea bowls, try =
to
> find how they are made, how they look. make them yourself. chawan
> bowls are steeped in rules and tradition...you do not know them.
>=20
> just don't pass them off as what they are not.
>=20
> you can drink anything from a tea bowl...coffee, 7 up, black tea, =
slimfast.
>=20
> you drink thick, whipped green tea, with ceremony from a chawan.
> nothing else ever touches one.
>=20
> mel
>=20
>=20
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>=20
> =
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>=20
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>=20
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots@pclink.com.
>=20
artimater on tue 13 feb 01
Well said Mel.....Chawan are chawan.....but the form itself has mega =
charm and use....I had a personal relationship (get a life) with one =
once for about a year, I loved it so much I would find myself on the =
crowded freeway with my head stuck in my teabowl checking out the well =
stained crackle in the bottom....To make a long story short....I met my =
brother half way across the country at a trail ride and the only gift I =
felt I had for him was my teabowl.....It left with him and at this =
moment is sitting on his mantle.....I try not to fall in love =
anymore(big tear).....Must have been magic clay....teabowls are my =
favorite.....I don't think I will be changing the name to Slimfast cups =
either......but if you have any more suggestions for renaming the form =
feel free to share (hint ...Is teabowl a Japanese word?)
Clayart rocks now back to work
artimator
artimator@earthlink.net=20
http://www.geocities.com/artimator/index.html=20
http://home.earthlink.net/~artimator/index.html
Everyone come join!
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/texasceramics
"I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a supply of =
indulgences and snakes handy"
Janet Kaiser on wed 14 feb 01
Dear Mel, Aiko, Lee and all others who have
studied/worked in Japan and have some working
knowledge of teabowls (chawan)...
I always thought that a chawan was carved from a
thick base, rather than thrown. Is that true or
not? Or has there been a shift in "tradition"
over recent decades and years?
As one of the distinguishing features of a
chawan is the rise and fall of the rim (gaku)
and that five gaku (gogaku) are most common, are
they now made when throwing or is this parting
of turning? Is a slight roughness (zangurishita)
still desirable? Are paddling and combing also
still used when forming and decorating chawan?
Do not believe I actually remember these
terms... I just had to look up my old notes! But
I did make a series of covered Raku teabowls,
which were apparently deemed OK when used at a
tea ceremony by a master visiting Berlin in
1977.
He gave me the following, written by
Sen-no-Rikyu:
"Though you wipe your hands
And brush off the dust and dirt,
What is the use of all this fuss,
If the heart is still impure?"
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
> gotta wade in here.
> simple education in teabowls means about 20
years of study.
> it is very complex.
Steve Mills on thu 15 feb 01
Why not *Beaker* (a vessel sans handle), That's what I call mine!
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
In message , artimater writes
> Maybe what we need is a new name for the form?????? so you more =
>racially and geographically challenged types could add them to your =
>culture
>artimator
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
artimater on thu 14 mar 02
HEHEHE
I know I can make teabowls....When I first told CLAYART about them =
though It was insinuated that I wasn't worthy so I started calling them =
"Blues Bowls".....Most of mine that are in use are used for BOOZE so I =
think the name is better anyway....And Oh So ConceptualHEHEHEHE....Those =
of you who don't have me on the kill filter might remember that I am a =
great champion of the form and have laughed long and hard at all the =
silly people who try to experience what they drink whilst holding on to =
a form destroying, hulking, unbalanced handle.....I drink hot chocolate =
in my coffee every morning....How do you know how hot it is with a big =
dumb handle hanging off one side?....Teabowls....Ahh...."Blues Bowls" =
are the most powerful form in the realm of ceramics.....I have known =
many people who have developed a very personal relationship with their =
bowl......There was one girl I know who threatened her mother with =
murder if she should be so bold as to wash her bowl with the rest of the =
dishes....Only SHE was allowed to wash that bowlHEHEHE....I consider =
that ability of small bowls to relate personally to be a VERY important =
asset in the quest for successful ceramic objects.....That ability =
generates sentimental value(true as opposed to monetary)....The only =
thing I can think of that adds greater value would be for a piece to =
have a long story....such as "This piece was made by T.C.'s great =
grandfather, then it traveled to New Zealand and was held up as an idol =
by the Maiori tribes for 100 years; then it was stolen by some convict =
who stopped there on his way to his new home in Australia, where he gave =
it to the woman and she rejected him and threw it in the river where a =
scuba diver on vacation from Engalnd found it and brought it home, where =
it was used by a sympathetic potter to ship whale twerds to T. C. in =
North Texas....Ask Tony how valuable such a pot would be....
No Lee, I was not writing about racism....I was laughing and =
attempting to ridicule those who think because they KNOW EVERYTHING =
about EVERYTHING....they might be better artists.....Waaaaaallll, that's =
all bullshit....Art comes from the heart...The art of children is some =
of the most powerful of all....It may not hurt to know a few factoids =
and fancy techniques but they are just as likely to stifle the energy as =
they are to improve the REAL value of the piece.... Teabowls are the =
cat's pajamas
The Japanese Masters have developed the ability to become one with =
nature...Thus they have the help of the gods in their work...The unknown =
artist who communes with the gods...Why would such an artist need =
recognition....How could the work be anything less than phenomenal
PAX,=20
Rush
Know what I mean Verne?
"I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a supply of =
indulgences and snakes handy"
http://artimator.com
rush@artimator.com
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/texasceramics
Artimator Galleries
2420 Briarwood Ln.
Carrollton, TX 75006
972-841-1857
Paul & Kathy Greaves on fri 15 mar 02
This is such a timely subject for me! Our school's ceramics department has
just finished making over 2000 teabowls for an installation in remembrance
of 1806 Japanese-Americans who were interned at Tule Lake, CA during WWII.
I helped with the project, getting my first taste of production work (I was
able to make all of 5 teabowls/hr). I had no idea about teabowl
history/aesthetics, but had some that were already made to work off of. If
you're interested in what the project is/was about(today's the last day), go
to:
http://www.sierra.cc.ca.us/events/standguard/overview.html
I also posted a photo in a CompuServe forum that shows the teabowls all set
out for the installation. That link is:
http://forums.compuserve.com/scripts/flisapi.dll/teabowl1.jpg
Thanks for the enlightening posts!
Kathy
Paul & Kathy Greaves on fri 15 mar 02
Sorry, Lee.
I didn't know how to check it before posting. Another link that _should_
work is:
http://forums.compuserve.com/gvforums/default.asp?srv=graphics
I didn't send this one because you have to navigate from there. Once you
get there, click on the Files button, then click on the digital photo art
section, then click on 1806 Tea Bowls. I hope this works for you!
Kathy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
To: "Paul & Kathy Greaves"
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: Teabowls
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul & Kathy Greaves"
>
> > I also posted a photo in a CompuServe forum that shows the teabowls all
set
> > out for the installation. That link is:
> >
> > http://forums.compuserve.com/scripts/flisapi.dll/teabowl1.jpg
> >
> > Thanks for the enlightening posts!
>
> Kathy, I can't make this link work.
>
> Thanks,
> Lee In Mashiko
>
Michele Williams on sun 17 mar 02
Rush,
I've just visited your site and am inspired. Nobody has any business
telling you there's no talent in your fingers to make tea bowls. Whoever
says that may not have the talent to make ....(4 letter word of your
choice). Yours are beautiful, and even in virtual reality they make me want
to touch them. That's my problem. My mother has been telling me "Don't
touch that" all my life. I'm 53 and I still hear that command whenever I'm
near something that begs for touch. Yours are screaming to be held.
The other reason I'm writing you is that I'm a newbie who has artists
sprinkled all over the family tree, but I always thought I didn't get any of
the Artsy DNA except in my writing. Even that DNA isn't magnificent. But I
started taking ceramics for a 2nd course this spring and was given the
assignment to copy a bas relief from history......and the rest is history.
That's where my artsy DNA has apparently been hiding!
I have copied EVERYTHING from your site to my computer for inspiration.
What I most wanted to see is which glazes highlight the carving best, and
you have found some beauties. I'd seen a few classical pieces that were
lightly carved, cameo-style, then covered as thickly as with majolica, and
you really have to look and stare and ponder out the carving. I didn't want
that. What I want is the effect you have achieved, that the glaze is
equally part of the beauty and not a cover-up to it. That the carving says
to do the looking, not a hide-and-seek game, and that the glaze says, "And
we're so deep you must touch to feel all our dimensions. And the total
piece says, "You must lift, touch, turn, examine, explore and enjoy how
we're made."
I'm about 8 weeks into throwing, so I'm lucky to get anything that has equal
thickness from top to bottom, something which is made more difficult by the
fact that the center changes its position inch by inch. Like I said,
newbie. I'm no competition to you and may never come to your level, since
I'm 53 and will always be "just a hobbyist". But I aspire to create
beautiful things that match the visions in my head, so I hope you can answer
a couple of questions about your work so I can get an idea how to develop
mine.
I can't pick up your work, so I can't tell exactly how deeply you carve.
I've been making the walls of my things fairly thick to allow the strength
to remain when I carve as deeply as I wish. I have not handled (or even
seen, I think) other tea bowls, so I can't tell by looking at the rims of
your photos if you make yours thicker to allow for carving or not. I looked
down the edges of pictures to see how deeply the cuts are visually, and
yours are not deeper than mine. Do you find carving deeply reduces wall
strength or increases breakage during firing?
I'm carving ferns and flowers much as the ancient Persians did, and I'm
thinking in a couple of cases to simply cut the background away under the
rim and bring the design up to the rim in 3 or 4 places only to support a
rim around the thing and give it a "top". Not a teabowl, obviously. Do you
use some kind of a form or something to support the work from inside while
you're carving? Do you find the greenware needs more support than you can
give with your hands?
How thick are you making the walls of these taller beautiful (gorgeous,
seductively Touch-Me) pieces? Is there anything I should know before
starting to carve into the shoulders of my 9 1/2" tall vase?
I wish you weren't so far away. I want desperately to turn some of your
pieces over in my hands and examine them, but you're West Coast and I'm East
Coast (Miami) and my arms just aren't that long! I hope you can take a few
moments to help me learn from your experience.
By the way, I was a gently-raised, naive, prissy/prudish young woman with
writing talent. I have since come to greatly appreciate someone who puts
things on paper the way you do! I studied to teach English, and it wasn't
there that I learned such appreciation. It was from life itself. The
energy of life is in your writing. You're not on my kill filter. You have
a very POW way of saying things.
Some people can't handle a difference of opinion, never mind a forceful,
made-up-my-mind-before-you-came-here approach. It takes all kinds. Those
who chastise you probably aren't so much against you as they are fearful of
frightening away those folks who wouldn't stay on a list where their minds
are "jimmied" every time they come to read. Or they are afraid of the more
forceful things in life themselves. I started learning Karate at 51 years
of age. Force is to be appreciated when done well.
You do well on paper and in clay. Be well. Thanks for any help you can
find time to give me!
Michele Williams
Rank Newbie
iandol on tue 19 mar 02
Program on SBS television Sunday. "Water" made by the BBC.
Segment on the Tea Ceremony. Explained in general terms what it was =
about and why water is so important.
But it was the Tea Bowl which amazed. Must have been at least eight =
inches across and four or five deep. Contoured sides. Strong red glaze, =
presumably Kaki or Persimmon. Looked thin as an eggshell.
Ivor Lewis.
mel jacobson on sun 2 feb 03
the word tea bowl is very misused.
in japanese language, when used for the tea ceremony,
the word is CHA WHAN. these are very precious
and often revered. one does not put chip dip in them.
a tea bowl for drinking green tea is a tea bowl, U NO ME is
a daily drinking cup. cheap, easy to make, nice little, cute cups.
many potters have a favorite personal design.
the tea ceremony is a complex issue. it takes study.
to make an actual cha whan is not just throwing a
loppy pot...and calling it a tea bowl.
western tea bowls are fun to make, pretend you are
a famous tea master. no harm done.
it is when folks try to pass them off as cha whan, well,
it is a fake. tea ceremony is a serious business to many
japanese folks. many scoff at it. but, like religion, don't
scoff unless you understand. understanding comes with study
and sensitive care.
lee love can fill us in from his perspective in japan.
i have written a great deal about cha whan.....i really
appreciate what it is. have held wonderful bowls in my
hands. they are magical.
mel
old tea masters decide what is a CHA WHAN, not we mortals.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Ben Friesen on wed 12 jan 05
I haven't had time to respond to everyone's comments on the teabowls and =
culture, etc but I wanted to let you all know I certainly appreciated =
all the info. Keep it coming if you have more. I've found it very =
interesting..... makes it more fun to make 'em if you know the =
background.. of course.... :)
Ben Friesen
Stonepath Pottery
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
Craig Martell on sat 8 apr 06
Hi:
I was bungling around on the internet and found a very nice online exhibit
of teabowls. Some very juicy stuff. Here's the url.
http://www.oakwoodceramics.co.uk/TotallyTeabowls.htm
regards, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
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